Clinton defends record as lawmakers press for answers

'The Five' debate the conduct of the Benghazi select committee


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 22, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly
Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Greg
Gutfeld. It is 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

You are looking live at Capitol Hill where lawmakers are trying to get the
truth from Hillary Clinton on the 2012 attack in Benghazi. The hearing is
about to resume after a short recess. The secretary has been testifying all
day before the House Select Committee investigating the attack. She and
ranking democrat Elijah Cummings have accused the republicans of trying to
derail her presidential campaign. But, Trey Gowdy, chairman of the panel,
set them straight right out of the gate.


REP. TREY GOWDY, R-S.C.: I understand there are people,
frankly, in both parties who have suggested that this investigation is
about you. Let me assure you, it is not. This investigation is about four
people who were killed representing our country on foreign soil. It is
about what happened before, during and after the attacks that killed them.
It is about what this country owes to those who risk their lives to serve
it. There is no statute of limitations on the truth.


GUILFOYLE: Hillary was defiant at times during tense exchange with
committee members. She then took a softer tone at one point to convince
them she was more concerned about finding answers than they were.


more about what happened than all of you put together. I've lost more sleep
than all of you put together. I have been racking my brain about what more
could have been done or should have been done.


GUILFOYLE: All right. So obviously, she was trying to portray herself as
sort of the victim that, "I have more understanding, more compassion. I am
on a much more important quest for the truth than any of you. You just
don't want me to be president." That's what she's trying to convince. Do
you think that it worked from a communications standpoint?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I think for -- I think this is what it
is, 44 percent of the American people have already made up their mind about
Hillary Clinton before today and they don't like her. And they're not going
to vote for her, they've made up their mind, that's settled. The other 44
percent love her, think that this is perfect for her and she solidified
that for them. And they will be able to say, she did fine. She answers the
questions. Everybody should move on. Obviously, as commanding presence, she
was well-briefed, et cetera. You're going to see tomorrow the media will
help her, try to put this story behind it. For me, I actually -- I thought
that was absolutely inauthentic and unpersuasive what she just said about
losing more sleep than anybody else because, I think what she should have
said actually to show the compassion she was trying to show, which is to
say, the people that have lost the most sleep over this are the victims'


PERINO: OK? Let's start there. The main issue for me that is still not
resolved is the crux of this hearing and the whole point of the issue about
who pushed the video. Because, now we know in the discussions that she sent
an e-mail to Chelsea Clinton that night, saying that it was an attack by
al-Qaeda. She tells that to the Egyptian prime minister, but in the days
that follow, she actually uses the video as an excuse. But then in today's
hearing, she said that she didn't. So to me, that is still unresolved and
that was the point of what I wanted to hear today.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Well, one key question a lot of Americans want answered. Why
did Clinton and others in the administration, initially blame the attack on
protest sparked by a video? We've been asking that on this show. Ohio
Congressman Jim Jordan tried to get to the bottom of that by reading
several, previously, overlook e-mails that indicated that Clinton knew all
along the assault was driven by terrorists.


REP. JIM JORDAN, R-OHIO: You had a conversation with the Egyptian
prime minister, he told him this. "We know the attack in Libya had nothing
to do with the film. It was a planned attack, not a protest.

CLINTON: Look at the statement that I've made. I clearly said that it was
an attack.

JORDAN: Calling it an attack is like saying the sky is blue. Of course, it
was an attack.

CLINTON: There was a lot of conflicting information that we were trying to
make sense of.

JORDAN: Americans can live with the fact that good people sometimes give
their lives for this country, but what they can't take, what they can't
live with is when their government is not square with them.

CLINTON: I wrote a whole chapter about this in my book, Hard Choices. I'd
be glad to send it to you, Congressman.


GUILFOYLE: Well, promoting herself.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: You know what? I actually, Kimberly --
as someone who hawks a book.


GUTFELD: I have to -- and it's right to say how to be right in every time.
I have to give her props for doing that at that point. Look, you know Jim
Jordan finally pursued the truth. Who pushed the video and why? And it was
the camouflage their incompetence over diplomatic security. She told her
family it was a terror attack and told the victims it's a video. Why did
she lie? Because she had -- she was trying to save her own skin. Then, she
goes into this soliloquy about how -- if you look at other terror attacks,
there's never any partisanship afterwards. After the bombing in Lebanon,
there was no partisanship at all, we all came together. That's because
there was no cover-up after these bombings. There was nobody slamming about
the video. One last thing and I'll shut up. The constant reframe from this
hearing was that Chris Stevens chose his destiny. When Adam Smith says, "He
chose to go to Benghazi." It's the political version of saying, "He
shouldn't have gone out, dressed like that."

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: He should have worn a bra.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: I mean, he basically saying that he had it coming. Blame the
victim by saying that he took the job. The other refrain, and then I'll
shut up. I said I shut up before. They keep talking -- first time ever,
democrats are talking about saving money.


GUTFELD: They keep saying, "Oh, $5 million. Well, this hearing cost $5
million. This hearing cost $5 million -- that's a rounding figure on the
Viagra. It's a bunch of garbage. They've never cared more about money than

GUILFOYLE: All right, Bolling, follow that.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: So, as Dana points out, the very night
of the attacks. Now remember, these attacks were exactly 10 years to the
day of the initial World Trade Center bombings, I mean, hello. So that very
night, he e-mails Hillary Clinton, calls out -- looks like an al-Qaeda-type
attack. Jim Jordan came with the second one, which, this is -- here's the
smoking gun, guys. This is it right here. Clinton e-mails, the prime
minister saying, "We know that the attack in Libya -- we know that the
attack in Libya had nothing to do with the film.


BOLLING: It was a planned attack, not a protest. Now that's the day after
the attack, 9-12-11, OK, that day. Three days later, after that, they blame
the video on over draped caskets in Andrews Air Force Base. Five days
later, Susan Rice goes on the talk shows blames the video. Eleven days or
12, maybe 13 days later President Obama goes to the U.N. and blames the
video. The question -- we now know they lied. They formulated this
elaborate scheme, but why? Greg asks why. Yes -- obviously, number one
reason, because Hillary Clinton was asked for security, she turned it down
and four Americans died. That's her end of why. His end of why, President
Obama? Well, on 9-12, the same day that Clinton just outs it and let's
everyone know it's a terror attack. President Obama flies to Las Vegas for
a campaign event to raise money after he makes a speech from the Rose
Garden. Both of these two made massive errors and the only way to get out
of it was to blame the video and not.
GUILFOYLE: To do a cover up.

BOLLING: Blame what really happened, which they knew from the very moment.

GUILFOYLE: That's the crux of it. That's what they need to be focusing on.
There have been questions about security and what was done in advance. It
really is about the cover up, it's about who pushed the video that they
perpetuated as false narrative to the American people over and over again,
but she was OK to tell Chelsea Clinton the truth, but not all the rest of

BOLLING: And the prime minister.


JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: You know, this is like, you know, you
go out in the woods on a fall weekend with the kids and everything, and you
build a campsite and then you tell scary stories inside the tent and every
sound sounds like oh, my gosh, the bear is coming. That's what listening to
you guys are like.

GUTFELD: How so?

WILLIAMS: Because -- let me tell you something.

GUTFELD: Explain that.

WILLIAMS: Because you are so lost in the weeds.


GUTFELD: Explain that metaphor.

WILLIAMS: 'm going to explain it to you. You are so lost in the weeds and
in your own little.

GUTFELD: You're on weed.

WILLIAMS: You guys are like.

GUTFELD: You are smoking weed.

WILLIAMS: Talking to each other and yeah, this could be and that could be
and it could be the video.

GUTFELD: No. It's one question, who pushed the video?

WILLIAMS: And it could be the talking point.

GUTFELD: How much simple could you get, Juan?

WILLIAMS: And you know what? You know what? You know, you could get simple
enough to say the tragedy here was the death of these four Americans.


WILLIAMS: And we want to find out what happened, what led to it and how we
can prevent it.

GUTFELD: And why there was a cover-up.

WILLIAMS: There's no cover up because you know the truth.

GUTFELD: Why -- because you blame it on the video to cover up for the
American competence.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. You can talk about politics if you like, and that's
been revealed.

GUTFELD: It's not politics.


GUTFELD: That's morality.

WILLIAMS: No, no, that's politics.

GUTFELD: That's justice.

WILLIAMS: That's politics.

GUILFOYLE: Those are the facts.

GUTFELD: That's punishment.

GUILFOYLE: Those are the facts.

WILLIAMS: It's politics long ago disclosed by six previous hearings, plus
the accountability commission report, but we are engaged in this because by
own republican admission, Kevin McCarthy, Hannah (ph) and all the rest.

GUTFELD: It's all politics.

WILLIAMS: This -- yeah. And even -- at this table, you guys first say, well
you know, if you're for Hillary, then you didn't hear anything. And if
you're against Hillary, it didn't change your mind. Gee, I wonder if this
is about politics.

PERINO: Well, Juan.

GUTFELD: That's.

PERINO: It doesn't bother you at all, this evidence?

WILLIAMS: What evidence?

BOLLING: We know that the attack in Libya had nothing to do with -- nothing
to do with the film. It was a planned attack.


BOLLING: Not a protest and.

WILLIAMS: That's what she says.

BOLLING: And days, and days after and days after they set the video.

WILLIAMS: Right. So she's saying to the ambassador, this is an internal
conversation. It's not political, which is a document that came out of

PERINO: No, but.

BOLLING: It's true.

GUTFELD: And then she lied to the video.

WILLIAMS: Pentagon, the White House, these -- those are political people in
the aftermath. That has nothing to do.


WILLIAMS: With the reality of loss of life and the (inaudible).

PERINO: Hold on, Juan. Actually, you're making no sense. Can I just try one
more time to walk through this?

WILLIAMS: Please, please, go right ahead.

PERINO: The attacks happened.

BOLLING: Immediately.

PERINO: Hillary Clinton, that night, this is new information. Sends an e-
mail to Chelsea Clinton -- OK, that's a family member.


PERINO: That's OK. And then also, talked to the prime minister of Egypt.


PERINO: And says, "We know it was not a video that this is a planned attack
on our protest."


PERINO: And two days later, says in public that it was the video. That
doesn't bother you at all?

WILLIAMS: It doesn't bother me that politics, when you have the Pentagon.


GUILFOYLE: Oh my, God.


BOLLING: It's a blaming.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no, no.

BOLLING: Fabrication of why it's.

GUILFOYLE: Well he is. He's saying it's OK morally and ethically to lie.

WILLIAMS: I'm not saying it's a lie.

GUILFOYLE: To lie to these victim's family members.

WILLIAMS: Oh my, gosh.

GUILFOYLE: To lie to the American people when she knew that it was al-


GUILFOYLE: It was a terrorist attack.

WILLIAMS: I think you guys.


WILLIAMS: I think you guys have never dealt in the world of politics, where
people spin regularly.

GUTFELD: Well we know you.

PERINO: Excuse me. That was my job.


WILLIAMS: Oh yeah.

PERINO: And I never.

WILLIAMS: I'm telling you.

PERINO: Done that.

WILLIAMS: Well, I'm telling you, people do it that all the time.

GUTFELD: So now you're accusing.

PERINO: So that's OK?

WILLIAMS: But it's way a far.

GUTFELD: Now you're accusing her of politics.


GUTFELD: First it was us, but now it's her.

WILLIAMS: No. There -- oh you, gee. Do you think there's any politics going
on here?

GUTFELD: No, what it is, it's covering your ass. That's what she's doing.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, fair. But you know what, it wasn't good.
GUTFELD: The pantsuit is not enough.

WILLIAMS: Look back on the other reports, it was the White House, it was
the Pentagon. It was the CIA. It was all of these guys that covering but --
because you know what, there are terrible -- something terrible happened,

GUTFELD: No. You know what happened was, a terror attack happened and it
exposed the fact that they had previous warnings that they had ignored. So
to cover that up, they had to make it into a spontaneous thing. And that
goes back to the one, that one statement. The reason why she said, what
difference does it make? That it -- whether it was planned or random, was
that erased her culpability because she said, "If that doesn't matter, then
it doesn't matter that I screwed up."

WILLIAMS: How did she screw up? You think that she.

GUTFELD: She screwed up.

WILLIAMS: She should have -- she ignored.

GUTFELD: She's negligent.

WILLIAMS: She ignored the warnings about the security you're thinking.

GUTFELD: She spends more time -- spending more time exchanging gossip with
Sidney Blumenthal than listening to Chris Smith, as she calls him.

WILLIAMS: Oh, in other words, when you and I talk...

GUTFELD: Same as Chris Stevens.

WILLIAMS: When you and I talk, and two pals talking nonsense, oh, we're
wasting time?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, she did.

WILLIAMS: She can't have a friend in Sidney Blumenthal?

BOLLING: Did you, did you listen to.

GUTFELD: He's not much of a friend.

GUILFOYLE: Oh come on.

WILLIAMS: I don't think so -- anyway.

BOLLING: Did you listen to the testimony today?


BOLLING: She was asked several times. Why wasn't the security provided for
Chris Stevens.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, correct.

BOLLING: He asked for it. And her answer to that was consistently, he knew
what the risks were. She had said 10 times.

WILLIAMS: No, I think that she.


WILLIAMS: I think that she said a hundred times that security people at the
State Department, and out in the field, either made decisions that she
might not have agreed with, but that it didn't get to her desk directly.

PERINO: I think two things.

GUILFOYLE: Go ahead.

PERINO: One -- from a communications standpoint. I think, actually, they
out -- they overcorrected. Internally, they were so worried that the
politics of this was going to look bad in the last six weeks, heading into
the election.


PERINO: That they decided to find a way. And then the video story got
bigger and bigger, and then they try to -- it was like covering up the lie
-- that's why they could lie in the first place.


PERINO: So I think -- I don't think it actually would have hurt them to
have said, "This is an al-Qaeda attack.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

PERINO: And say.


PERINO: And then to say, why don't we go after the enemy, which is al-
Qaeda, the thing that has always bothered me. And I think, Greg, if I
remember, on a Saturday morning when I woke up and I could not believe that
they had arrested an American.


PERINO: For putting out a video that is protected under the First

GUILFOYLE: How horrible is that.

PERINO: You don't -- you always showed your instincts as -- for someone who
wants to be president of the United States should be to protect all of our
rights to say whatever we want, and not be blamed for inciting a riot.


PERINO: Fifty miles away in Egypt -- or Libya.

GUILFOYLE: But they let an innocent man to go to jail to cover their
political fails and their lies.

PERINO: Well, that he was guilty on some other things.

GUILFOYLE: But nevertheless.

PERINO: But you perp walking in the middle of the night for a parole

BOLLING: Because.

GUILFOYLE: Because they blame the video.


GUILFOYLE: Of the whole attack of this man, right?

BOLLING: That they were trying to spin as you're calling it, politics of
spin. But also, I think I said eleven, it's 2012.

PERINO: Twelve.

BOLLING: Also, it's important because what President Obama was selling with
a month to an election was.

PERINO: We're safe.

BOLLING: We're safe. I've kept you safe. I've kept Americans safe. Now four
Americans are dead.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, well.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: With a month to go.

GUILFOYLE: Does he want to meet the White House?

BOLLING: And again, the decision to go to Vegas, I don't care what you say,
they would -- 9,000 out of 9,000 times, they would never do that again.
That was a big mistake.

GUTFELD: Well maybe there was a great buffet. Here's the thing. You know
what the thing is?


GUTFELD: Even if it happened on President Obama's watch as other terrorists
attacks, that's not the problem. That's happens when you're president --
these things happen. It happened with Reagan with Lebanon. It happened with
Bush with 9/11, it happens here. That's not the problem. The problem is the
-- what happens after, the cover-up. The fact that they could not admit
that this was a terror attack to the families -- to the victims' families
and instead, had to lay this all on this obscure video. That's the problem.
The problem -- no one is saying, "You know, President Obama, it's your
fault these four people died." What people are saying is, "Why Hillary, did
you lie? Why did you lie to save your skin?"

WILLIAMS: You know what I think and -- let me just look at it from your
perspective, Greg. I think more Americans, according to the polls, want to
know more about what happened. But what they want to know about is not the
spin, the politics or even what you guys call the lies about, you know,
who's going to cover their butts and not get blamed, or Obama running off
to have Vegas and -- no, what they want to know is, should in fact we be
taking added steps for securing our State Department officials, our
ambassadors overseas? Was Hillary Clinton negligent in not looking at those
memos, coming, asking for more security? Is it the case that Chris Stevens
informed that there was a problem and I need to get out of here and someone
wasn't listening in Washington to what one of our men was saying?

BOLLING: That's just the e-mail.

GUILFOYLE: The answer to all of that is yes.

BOLLING: Reference today about that Chris -- Huma Abedin telling Hillary
Clinton that Chris Stevens may bail on his ambassadorship because he was
worried about what the security issues.


WILLIAMS: That's real.

BOLLING: She was notified of that.

WILLIAMS: OK. Now we're back to something real, but must -- I must say, you
guys are much better than those republicans on the committee. I would hire
you guys.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, nice. Try to recover, Juan.

WILLIAMS: No. Recover?

GUILFOYLE: We're going to see how the.

WILLIAMS: That's a fact. If this is an interesting show, what I thought
today was not interesting. And in fact, didn't Shep Smith says he wants,
rather watch the Mets.

PERINO: Well, it wasn't supposed to be for your entertainment, it's a

WILLIAMS: Oh, oh, oh, that's true.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, it's a fact.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I see.

GUILFOYLE: It's a fact to finding process.

WILLIAMS: Oh yeah.

GUILFOYLE: And the victim's families deserve the answers, so do the
American people.

WILLIAMS: Look like a star-chamber.

GUILFOYLE: And now we know who has the close (ph) relationship with the
truth and who shouldn't be rewarded for the presidency.


WILLIAMS: You're right.

GUILFOYLE: Much more to come on Hilary Clinton's testimony today. Don't
move, because The Five, we're coming right back.


PERINO: Back now with more on Hillary Clinton's testimony on Benghazi on
Capitol Hill today. The House hearing is still underway. Yes, believe it,
it's still underway. Earlier, Clinton said she was the one who chose
Ambassador Stevens for the dangerous mission in Libya, but then she
admitted, she'd didn't keep tabs on his repeated requests for more


CLINTON: I was the one who asked Chris to go to Libya as our envoy. I was
the one who recommended him to be our ambassador to the president. Those
requests and issues related to security were rightly handled by the
security professionals in the department. I did not see them. I did not
approve them, I did not deny them.


PERINO: So OK, gee. That was a lot of candor. She's saying, "I didn't see
any of them" and I guess the follow-up question I would have asked is,
don't you think you should have?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. Don't you think it was important enough, since you
personally chose and put this man in a very dangerous situation? Certainly,
he was willing to serve and we appreciate that. But we also have an
obligation to provide adequate safety and security for those people that in
that area of conflict, in that region. Why didn't you think it was
important enough to follow up and make certain that they were secure?

PERINO: Well, I could actually.

GUILFOYLE: She's remiss in her job duties.

PERINO: I guess -- in a way, Eric, that could be just all of us, sort of
Monday-morning quarterbacking. However, what you pointed out in the first
block is that e-mail from Huma Abedin, Hillary's aide that says, "Hey,
Madam Secretary, the ambassador, he is thinking of leaving his post because
he's worried.

GUILFOYLE: She's aware.

BOLLING: She's worried about.

PERINO: I mean at some point, she -- well, unless she didn't see that e-
mail. I mean, she wasn't aware, but it seems strange to me.

BOLLING: Very strange. You know what was kind of telling about this, I
don't know, six -- what do we do, six hours or so, so far? Hillary Clinton,
the democrats -- I can't believe what they're doing. They're not interested
in finding facts, they're not interested in seeing if they can find out
what went on or to see for the American people to see what went on. What
they're trying to do is discredit the committee, discredit the republicans
-- most of the attacks are directly at members of the committee and why
we're doing this over and over. Meanwhile, we're finding things that are
leading to other things. This Jim Jordan hot -- smoking gun e-mail, we now
know because of the e-mails from these -- from the servers and what not,
which emanated from a prior Benghazi hearing. Hillary Clinton is taken the
six hours, so half of its democrats, taken three hours and it's been a
three-hour infomercial for her.

PERINO: Well she does stamina.


PERINO: We have to say. I think that she's showing a little -- she doesn't
have ants in her pants. She's not trying to get out of the hearing room. I
want to get to one other thing because.

GUILFOYLE: That was positive.

PERINO: Washington, D.C., everybody so frustrated because no one is ever
held to account for anything. And one of the most dramatic moments at the
hearing today was when a Congressman Mike Pompeo asked Hillary Clinton, why
no one lost their jobs after the deaths of four Americans.


MIKE POMPEO, KANSAS CONGRESSMAN: You talk about being disappointed to. I've
hear you used that several times. You were disappointed. You (inaudible) be
-- why didn't you fire someone?

CLINTON: I followed the law, Congressman. That is my.

POMPEO: It is the.

CLINTON: That was my responsibility.

POMPEO: You're telling me that you had no authority to take anyone's
paycheck, to have caused anyone to be afraid. You were telling me you were
legally prohibited from doing that? Is that your position here this

CLINTON: It is my position that in the absence of finding dare election or
breach of duty, there could not be immediate action taken.


PERINO: Thinking about, Greg. Is it fair?

GUTFELD: She reminds -- she was like the evil twin of the mom from
Everybody Loves Raymond.


GUTFELD: That's what I get from her. I loved it when she said she had --
her job was actually very tough because she had a deal with social media
for crying out loud. Like that's her -- that's how tough her job is. And
then you have these questions that are choreographed by the democrats.
Sanchez, asking this leading questions like, is it safe to say you're
awesome? Like, you were fully engaged, weren't you? So it was like I -- you
know, that's a good question. Why didn't you fire anybody? Because it's
that -- that doesn't help her, to fire people. That's not.

BOLLING: And he just said by her own admission, "I would have to find
dereliction of duty to fire someone."

GUTFELD: Look in the mirror.



BOLLING: That's it. We wish you have to fire yourself.

GUILFOYLE: Well, she should have started with herself.


GUILFOYLE: It's like fire yourself. That would have been impressive, you
know. I mean honestly, especially this is someone who was her friend. I
mean with friends like that, who needs enemies. It's like I'm going to
stick you, you know, over there in harm's way, and then I'm not going to
follow up, despite your requests for added security that has been proved
that she knew about and chose to disregard.

WILLIAMS: Wait a second. We didn't prove that she.

GUILFOYLE: And obviously, that's negligence.

WILLIAMS: She did not -- there's no proof that she knew about the need for
added security, as you're discussing it, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Are you paying attention to what we're doing here, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Yes, I know.


WILLIAMS: You're prosecuting Hillary Clinton.

GUILFOYLE: Because I feel like I'm wrap up in my Benghazi Groundhog Day.

WILLIAMS: Because the republicans in Congress have made a mess of this. And
even Eric says that democrats are going after the committee. Gee, I wonder
what Trey Gowdy did? I wonder what Richard Hannah had to say. That they
were going after Hillary Clinton. And Gowdy, from the first, the first
thing he said today was, "Don't think this is about you, Mrs. Clinton, this
is about the loss of life." And then the whole committee goes after Hillary

PERINO: But no, but Juan, this has been terrible -- this is the only time
she agreed to testify. She chose this date. She wanted to have this

WILLIAMS: I believe she testified back in '13. I believe that she has

PERINO: But no, but not --- this is a different committee. This is the
Benghazi special committee she agreed to come and testify as she wants it


PERINO: And I agree that there were politics being played. Especially, in
2012 when they used the video as a cover-up to protect President Obama
heading in to those.

GUILFOYLE: And protect the White House.

WILLIAMS: Oh gee. And you don't think the CIA was trying to make sure that
people didn't understand what they were doing. Why they had so many assets
on the ground in Benghazi. Oh gee, yes. And was that in America's interest?

GUTFELD: If only Sid Blumenthal was there to help her out.

GUILFOYLE: That's the problem.


GUILFOYLE: He used to be right there by her side.


PERINO: We should ask him to come on The Five.

GUILFOYLE: Let's bring him here.

GUTFELD: Yeah, there'll be grace (ph).

PERINO: Oh, I love that.


PERINO: All right, we going to take a quick break. We'll return to
Clinton's Benghazi testimony ahead, but up next. WikiLeaks, they've done it
again. This time, publishing the personal information of CIA Director John
Brennan. The agency calls it Crackas. But was it really an active terror?
Greg's got that next.


GUTFELD: The latest WikiLeaks dump features CIA Director John Brennan's
address, passport number, his wife's Social Security number, address, phone
number, the addresses of his family and in-laws, too. This is heroic
stuff, Wiki, bravo. Now terrorists know where someone's granny lives.

So who still admires this stuff? The same people who booed the hacking of
Sony or their starlets? It's that old hypocrisy: The Hollywood left
thinks subversion is cool, unless of course, they're the target.

Meanwhile, the media also loves this. Such treasonous appreciation comes
from an idiotic view of national security. That the CIA is the real evil
and that America has no right to protect itself from those who wish to
destroy it. Because after all, we are evil. With that mentality, the end justifies the means. So why not expose a
man's most private information?

But making the CIA vulnerable puts all of
us at risk. So perhaps it's time now to redefine what an "enemy combatant" is in the
cyber-age. Because WikiLeaks doesn't do this to corrupt countries or
jihadists, it's as if they're waging cyber warfare only on us. How odd
that those who claim to champion rights to privacy now cheer those who
assault it. Perhaps it's time to hack the hackers and the hackers'

How do we do that? Well, our leaders and journalists must admit that cyber-
attacks are, indeed, attacks, not expressions of freedom. The attack on
Brennan was an attack on us, and it wasn't China who did it but the heroes
of modern media. May their Social Security numbers run wild.

So Eric did WikiLeaks finally...

BOLLING: Wait. This is the first time you started with me in two years.

GUTFELD: Is that true? Did WikiLeaks -- they damaged their brand. Didn't
they -- they were supposed to be all about surveillance, and now they're
just like -- the stuff is, like, ridiculous.

BOLLING: I don't know. This is pretty nasty stuff.


BOLLING: Family members, friends. Phone numbers, addresses.


BOLLING: What's the point? I mean, look, if you want to expose something
that you think is going on that's wrong, that's fantastic. I get that. I
understand it. But personal information -- what's the upside to that?

GUTFELD: No. It's nothing.


GUILFOYLE: No, there's nothing redeeming or heroic about it. They're just
criminals. There's no purpose to what they're doing whatsoever. Why are
you putting someone's Social Security number and his family's information?
I mean, wow, you guys are big time. Amazing, good job.

GUTFELD: But Dana, they're still seen as heroic among people who write for
the Huffington Post.

PERINO: But I think that they might -- the shine is off the apple, I
think. I don't think that there's much -- there's not much here. And when
they sit back and think about it for half a second, the next time WikiLeaks
says that they have something, it might not be as enticing.

So it's like the little boy who cried wolf.

GUTFELD: Interesting.

PERINO: It might not be a wolf.

GUTFELD: Yes, that's true.

PERINO: It might be a little kitten.

GUTFELD: But there is a Juan. And where there's a Juan, there's always a

WILLIAMS: Well, you know what's interesting to me about this story is that
supposedly the 13-year-old boy.


WILLIAMS: And he's just like a juvenile. Because this act is so
adolescent, right?


WILLIAMS: That's why I think that's what we're all saying. There's no
point. There's no way you could say, oh, yes, this reveals, as Eric was
saying, something about Americans' security or invasion of security.

PERINO: Which would be wrong, too.

WILLIAMS: Well, but -- I think it's wrong, but remember, even Republicans
voted to do away with the Patriot Act in the aftermath of Edward Snowden.

Now we have a situation with this kid, he's just being malicious. And he
said he's in support of the Palestinians or something, doesn't like
American foreign policy. But I think he's just being a numbskull.
Especially, the guy's wife? Why would you do that?


WILLIAMS: And what value has it had?

GUTFELD: Nothing. Nothing at all.

GUILFOYLE: Terrible, awful.

BOLLING: Terrible.

GUTFELD: Yes, it is. It's an attack. An attack.

WILLIAMS: But a 13-year-old did it. How did he do did?

PERINO: And do we know that he's American, the 13-year-old?

GUTFELD: I don't know. I should have read the story.

PERINO: I should have, too. I was riveted on the hearings.

GUTFELD: Yes. Yes. OK. Speaking of, up next we return to the big
hearing on Capitol Hill, where Hillary Clinton is answering questions from
the House Select Committee on Benghazi. You'll hear from the former
secretary of state right after this.


BOLLING: This is a FOX News alert. Moments ago, despite intelligence
reports to the contrary within 24 hours of the attack in Benghazi, Hillary
Clinton once again said the video played a role in the death of four
Americans that September 2012 night.


the video. And have dismissed the importance of the video. And I think
that is unfortunate, because there's no doubt. And as I said earlier, even
the person we have now arrested as being one of the ringleaders of the
attack on our compound in Benghazi is reputed to have used the video as a
way to gather up the attackers that attacked our compound.


BOLLING: Several of us -- let me just repeat your own words one more time,
Madame Secretary. Your words: "We know that the attack in Libya had
nothing to do with the film." Nothing to do with the film. We know it.
Dana, what's this all about?

PERINO: Well, when she says that there are several of you have brought up
this video, and they're skeptical, I have a feeling that she probably has a
staffer watching "The Five"...


PERINO: ... and sending her a little note, like, "See if you can slip this
in and try to clarify this."

GUILFOYLE: Clean it up.

PERINO: Right? Because it's actually -- it's the evidence, right, that
they have it right here.

The other thing that really bothers me about this is that she is saying,
well, the video is so important to the one person that they arrested, about
16 months later after this attack.

But then Susan Rice, the national security adviser, who coordinates all the
communications on the policy for the administration, she is the one who
sent out, instead of Hillary on the five Sunday shows, she says quote, "We
-- this attack was due to a spontaneous attack inspired by a video." No.

No. 2, then how in the world is your instinct to arrest the video maker in
America? That is not supposed to happen under our First Amendment.

BOLLING: Greg, pathological, you stick with the story even though you've
blown it?

GUTFELD: First, she should apologize to the families for lying. But could
I please, please do the exercise that I always do, for her logic to be
true? I love doing this.

OK. Step one, Abdul is at his laptop, and he's looking for cat videos
smoking hookah. He thinks those are funny. And he's on his computer, and
suddenly, he finds a video about Mohammed.

And now normally, you know, Abdul, he's an honor student.


GUTFELD: He works at a soup kitchen. He wants to be a doctor. But
suddenly, he's so angry. He calls up his fellow friends. They're fellow
honor students. Someone is a dentist. Maybe another one's a florist. And
he goes, "You know what? I'm angry. Let's go into the street and murder
four people."

And then, after they murder these people, they go, "You know what? Let's
go back to our jobs and resume our reasonable lives as good citizens."

That has to happen for her lie to be true. It is patently absurd.

BOLLING: And it happened to be on 9/11.

GUTFELD: Yes. That's -- the big thing is that all of this happened on
9/11, Juan. How could that be? Coincidence?

WILLIAMS: Imagine and, gee, you know what? The video comes out, and there
are riots in Egypt.

GUTFELD: With signs. With signs.

WILLIAMS: Oh, and there are riots in Tunisia and Yemen. So in other
words, the video did have some negative impact on us and on these
countries, right? OK? And...

PERINO: In Egypt? This isn't Egypt.

GUILFOYLE: In a different country, cool.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no, and I'm saying -- and you just heard...

GUILFOYLE: Go ahead.

WILLIAMS; And you just heard the secretary say that, in fact, they later
learned that one of these guys used it just as you said, Gregory.

GUTFELD: A totally trustworthy fellow. Trustworthy parents (ph).

WILLIAMS: No, yes, but they found out he used it to bring in other...

GUTFELD: He also blamed the video. Something in common.

WILLIAMS: Well, this is -- but this is your point, right?

PERINO: Juan -- Juan...

WILLIAMS: And what you made up...

GUTFELD: They're lying. They're lying.

WILLIAMS: ... you said, "Oh, they used the video." Go ahead.

PERINO: I'm just pointing to -- I'm just pointing to his paper one more
time. She said on the very night of the attack, in an e-mail to Chelsea
Clinton, that they knew it was a planned attack not a protest.

WILLIAMS: Yes, but Dana -- Dana, that night what they learned was, you
know what? This was planned and plotted. And at that point did not know
what she just testified to, which is that one of those guys used the video
in getting the others involved, as Gregory laid out.

PERINO: How many people have seen the video, 40?

GUTFELD: I don't know. In fact, they took the video down like that. But
it's true: they were all just well-meaning nice people and their immediate
response is to kill four people. That makes total sense, Juan.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, you know it's not true, right? You do. You're playing

WILLIAMS: You know what I know is true? I must say, you guys are doing so
much better than those Republicans on the committee. And I think that's
why Hillary Clinton is responding to you.

PERINO: Because you look -- you look terrible.

GUILFOYLE: But we don't have to do anything.

WILLIAMS: I'm terrible, and Hillary Clinton's terrible, and I think she's
a liar.

GUILFOYLE: Those are her words.

WILLIAMS: I said she didn't know at that point. What do you want her to
do, lie?

PERINO: Now she's trying to, like...

GUILFOYLE: No. Juan, stop.

BOLLING: No, no. Juan, Juan, Juan. This happened before they made up the
story about the video. Let's go ahead and blame the video.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. Right from the start, Eric, everybody said...


WILLIAMS: ... the video is responsible for the unrest in the Middle East.

BOLLING: No, no, Juan. This is -- this is...


WILLIAMS: And what happened? The very next day...

BOLLING: The same night she e-mails her own daughter and says, it looks
like an al Qaeda attack.


WILLIAMS: Correct.

BOLLING: And the next day she says, "No, no, there's no protest here."

WILLIAMS: At that point she didn't know that the video was actually a part
of instigating this attack.

BOLLING: There's nothing to do with the film.

WILLIAMS: Right, because at that point she said you know what? This looks
like it's separate from what happened in the rest of the Middle East. This
looks like it was a planned terrorist attack.

PERINO: You know what's going to happen by the next commercial break?
We're going to find out that Hillary Clinton gets a note and she's like,
"Let me -- I think I need to further clarify so that -- make sure that no
one that is trying to defend me is actually not making any sense."

WILLIAMS: Yes, but that...

PERINO: Then we'll know that they're watching "The Five."

WILLIAMS: Yes. I think that's right. And then we would know that, in
fact, the heart of the opposition, Hillary's enemies, right here on "The

BOLLING: No, no. The only one actually taking her words and using them.
I'm sure the other networks aren't doing it right now.

WILLIAMS: Yes, well, you take it out of context.

BOLLING: They're doing some -- they're doing some cat videos, maybe.

WILLIAMS: Take it out of context; just take it out of context. That's the
best you can do.

GUILFOYLE: No, no, no, no, no.

BOLLING: Whoa, whoa, time-out. There's no other context.

WILLIAMS: There is a context.

BOLLING: There is no other context.

WILLIAMS: No other context...


WILLIAMS: ... about what's going on the rest of the Middle East?

BOLLING: None whatsoever.

WILLIAMS: And Americans under attack?

BOLLING: She just says within 24 hours of the attack that it has nothing
to do with the video. It was a planned terror attack.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Because they've got no protest. And nothing recorded.

BOLLING: ... two weeks, making up the story.

WILLIAMS: Oh, gosh.

BOLLING: We got to go.

GUTFELD: You can't trust somebody with that kind of common sense or lack
of common sense. She's like a shopkeeper at noon. She's out to lunch.

BOLLING: All right. We're going to leave it right there. Next, some
breaking 2016 news, someone has just managed to out-Trump Donald Trump in a
state where the first presidential election contest will take place,
otherwise known as Iowa. Who's now ahead of the Donald in Iowa? Stay


WILLIAMS: Donald Trump loves to brag that he's winning in all the polls,
but that's not the case anymore. Ben Carson has now surpassed Trump in
Iowa with an eight-point lead over the GOP frontrunner. Carson is ahead

How is the Donald handling this news? Well, he retweeted this from one of
his supporters. It appears to insult voters in Iowa. "Ben Carson is now
leading in the polls in Iowa. Too much Monsanto in the corn creates issues
in the brain."

Well, he must have gotten a lot of pushback for that, because hours later,
he passed the blame, tweeting, "The young intern who accidentally did a
retweet apologizes."

K.G., you buy it?

GUILFOYLE: I don't know. I mean, is it possible? Sure. Is it probably a
good idea that he said that? Yes. And it wasn't something that he wrote
himself. So somebody did retweet it. It's just a matter of who pushed the

GUTFELD: What kind of candidate -- what kind of candidate trusts their
Twitter account to an intern? I mean, that's crazy.


GUTFELD: You don't...

WILLIAMS: Yes, a lot.

GUTFELD: You don't -- you do not do that. I mean, the fact is, he
promises that, when he's going to become president, that he's going to find
the best people, the best people to fill these positions. If you're
running for president, you don't have an intern running your -- that's why
I don't think it's an intern.

WILLIAMS: Right. Repeat what you said. Because I think -- I agree with
you so much and it's so rare. Go right ahead.

GUILFOYLE: That, in fact, I think it is possible that a lot of people do
it, yes.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I think lots of politicians have interns running it.

GUTFELD: That's a problem. Well, then -- then the charm and the humor
that we've come to love from Trump is not Trump at all. It's some 18-year-

WILLIAMS: Well, that's possible, but it could be that this one is one that
-- but anyway...

GUILFOYLE: Who pushed the retweet? Who did it?

GUTFELD: We need hearings. We need hearings.

WILLIAMS: We'll call hearings here at "The Five" shortly. What do you
think? What do you think?

BOLLING: I think -- well, first of all, we've all retweeted stuff we
probably shouldn't have.

GUILFOYLE: Bolling. Bolling.

BOLLING: We get in trouble for it once in a while.

Aside from that, it was a -- it was quoting a tweet. It wasn't even a
retweet. It was quoting a tweet. So maybe he lets interns quote, we'd
say, things that are provocative. I'm sure if it was an original Donald
Trump quote, an intern wouldn't have -- wouldn't have put that out. But I
guess that's the way to handle it.

WILLIAMS: Well, I want to go to my personal P.R. adviser, Ms. Dana Perino,
and say, Dana, I think the people that really got hurt here is Monsanto.

PERINO: I would say it was the people of Iowa, who actually then can all
pull together and say, "Excuse us, you can't say that." But they're
already doing it.

I mean, Ben Carson is -- he's even on book tour. I mean, he's like on TV a
little bit. He's not even campaigning and he's doing...

But the evangelical Christians, of which there are many in Iowa, and
they're active, they like Ben Carson's message.

You know, and both Carson and Trump have been -- Trump's been ahead. But
Carson's been right behind him in several of the polls. And they're just
two very different people.

WILLIAMS: But you know what?

PERINO: Very different styles. And Carson...

WILLIAMS: I noticed in the polls, speaking about evangelicals, is it's
really women, that women are going to Carson...

PERINO: Shocker.

WILLIAMS: ... and away from...

PERINO: Could you come pick me up off the floor? I'm just so shocked by
that. Obviously, that is -- he had the 10-point gender gap with women.

WILLIAMS: Yes, but Eric -- but Eric's people are sticking with Trump, the

BOLLING: "Eric's people, the men"?


BOLLING: My wife thinks Ben Carson is amazing, also.

GUILFOYLE: I like him.

BOLLING: There's this other poll. Did you see the Massachusetts poll?


BOLLING: Forty-eight percent leaning Republicans pick Trump. It's crazy.
How does one state go 48 percent in favor; one state, he drops?

GUTFELD: I don't know. But I've got a -- what do you call Kris Kringle
when he delivers genetically modified foods?

WILLIAMS: You got me, Greg.

GUTFELD: Mon Santa. I was just thinking it (ph).

WILLIAMS: Oh, you know, you're too good, Gregory.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

WILLIAMS: You're too good, Gregory.


WILLIAMS: "One More Thing" up next.

GUILFOYLE: Terrible.


GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Dana.

PERINO: All right. There was an op-ed in "The Wall Street Journal" today
that caught my eyes by Bjorn Lomborg. I encourage you to check it out.
This is what basically the message is.

That the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development analyzed
about 70 percent of all total global development aid. One in four of those
dollars goes to climate. Then, get this: at the same time, malnourishment
claims 1.4 million children's lives each year; 1.2 billion people live in
extreme poverty; and 2.6 billion lack clean drinking water.

He makes a very persuasive case that people who are suffering today should
not be denied energy. Our organization here in the United States that
invests in energy projects is not allowed to do anything with natural gas.
They can only invest in renewables. That's actually costing lives
overseas, and we should be held account to that while we're here on this
planet, living now.

GUTFELD: Well done.

PERINO: So there.

GUILFOYLE: Fantastic. Well done, Dana Perino.

PERINO: Now on to more fun things with Kimberly Guilfoyle.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, like kicking an extra point. So this is an must-see
video. Take a look. This is homecoming queen, and her name is Jodie
Farnetti. Her dad is in the final season, coach for the team. And she
successfully kicked -- how cool is that -- The extra point for her team.

You know, a love a girl that can play ball. You love it?

BOLLING: Yes, it's great. Great.

GUILFOYLE: And "FOX and Friends" tomorrow, please get up with me early in
the morning. Very early.

PERINO: That is very early.

BOLLING: All right. So I admit it. I was really excited to see the Cubs
in the World Series, first time since 1945. I even mentioned the "Back to
the Future" prediction thingie. Yes, well, this happened.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: On the way. And it's in there, strike three called.
The Mets win the pennant. The New York Mets have won the National League
pennant! Put it in the box!


BOLLING: So I'll just go back to being another heartbroken Cubs fan.



BOLLING: And by the way, congratulations, Mets fans. It was quite a

GUILFOYLE: When you're hot, you're hot.


GUILFOYLE: That's the thing.

GUTFELD: Thank you.

GUILFOYLE: Well -- not you.

GUTFELD: Oh, I'm sorry.

GUILFOYLE: But you are up next.

GUTFELD: I am next. Let's roll this, please.


GUTFELD: Greg's Diet Tips


GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: As you know, I've been focused entirely on Halloween. It's
important that you eat healthily during that time, because you can end up
eating too much sugar and then passing out on the street. Take a look at
this young man.




GUTFELD: He's enjoying -- listen to him, he's enjoying the beta carotene
from a fresh pumpkin. Isn't that delightful?

GUILFOYLE: Is that Alec?

GUTFELD: Alec Baldwin? Yes, it's Alec Baldwin.

He's hirsute. He's quite hirsute. Is that the word? Hirsute?



GUTFELD: All right. I've had enough of this. I want Juan to talk so I
can yell at him.


WILLIAMS: Yes, all right.

GUILFOYLE: So hairy.

WILLIAMS: So sometimes, as I look around this building with all of these
nuts, I get inspired. And that happened this past weekend with my friend
Harris Faulkner, because she walked 39 miles this past weekend for the Avon
Walk to End Breast Cancer.

She did 26 miles around New York City on Saturday, 13 miles along the
Hudson on Sunday.


WILLIAMS: And this is very personal. Her Aunt Mary has been diagnosed
with stage 4 breast cancer. So that diagnosis came in the spring. So best
wishes to Aunt Mary and boy, Harris, you inspire us. You did good.

PERINO: That's impressive.

GUILFOYLE: All right. So set your DVR so you never miss an episode of
"The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

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