This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," October 21, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, big news from the campaign trail is now raising the possibility of a general election match-up between businessman Donald Trump and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. It was a big day for political news, starting with a new ABC News poll showing Donald Trump dominating the GOP field. In the national survey, he sits ten points ahead of his nearest competitor, Dr. Ben Carson. But the really big news in this poll is that Trump is now number one among Republicans in two important categories. First, they think he is the candidate with the best chance to win the nomination. And, second, the candidate with the best chance to win the general election. The other big story today concerns the democratic ticket. And some of the best news Mrs. Hillary Clinton could have hoped for.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Unfortunately, I believe we're out of time. The time necessary to mount a winning campaign for the nomination.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: And with Vice President Joe Biden officially out of the 2016 context, and Mrs. Clinton's poll average now 22 points ahead of her nearest competitor, the political analysts are starting to drill down on what it would mean if these two, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton, are the last ones standing.
Joining me now, Chris Stirewalt, our Fox News digital politics editor. And Dana Perino, co-host of "The Five," author of, "And The Good News Is." And former press secretary to President George W. Bush. Good to see you both tonight.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST, "THE FIVE": Thank you.
KELLY: Stirewalt, let me start with you. Since on election night, you're part of the decision depths that actually has to crunch numbers and figure out what groups need to go where and what percentage of the vote? Let's just start with a comparison between Donald Trump and Mitt Romney. When it comes to the minority vote. Because many said Romney needed to win more minorities, if he had one more Hispanics, in particular, he would be president of the United States right now.
CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR: Well, sure. Now, you can look at it in a bunch of different ways. You could say Mitt Romney needed to do a lot better with Hispanic voters who are small but growing, rapidly growing share of the electorate. Or he needed to do a lot better with white voters who, in that election, where I think 72 percent of the electorate. So, basically, for Romney to have won, he would have need to either jack up his share of the white vote to levels probably beyond greater than any republican or any candidate or republican candidate has got in the modern era or he would have had to have done substantially better with minority voters.
STIREWALT: But he was stuck in between and got marooned and defeated by about a pretty stout five million votes.
KELLY: Uh-hm. And so Trump will be looking to do something different, if he's the nominee. He needs to drive up his numbers with whites to, you know, historically unprecedented levels. Or he needs to reach out to minorities in order to win a general election contest. And the latest polls Dana on that, on the minority numbers, show the following. Look at this. So this is Trump's favorability. With African-American, he has a 68 percent unfavorable rate with Hispanics, it's 82 percent unfavorable which tells you what?
PERINO: That he's got -- he dug himself a fairly big hole. One of the things that happened to Mitt Romney, do you remember when he used the phrase self-deportation?
PERINO: That was one of the phrases that really hurt him with Hispanics, they got 27 percent of the vote. They felt like he needed to get about 35 percent of the vote. Because of the increases in population that Chris is mentioning, Donald Trump or whoever the GOP candidate is going to be would need about 40 percent. A note on the rapidly growing number of Hispanics. Do you know that every single month in America, 50,000 Hispanics turn 18-years-old. Which means that the voter registration and get out the vote is so important with an 82 percent unfavorable, there's no doubt that Donald Trump has a lot of work to do. And I think that he has to start really concentrating on that if he plans to try to bring that number to something that he can actually use to win the election.
KELLY: Stirewalt, if you look at poll by poll, Trump versus Hillary Clinton, you know, he's head of match-ups, he wins some, she wins some depends on, you know, the poll. And the Real Clear Politics average of all the polls, she beats him by a couple of points, on average, she'll beat him in the general election according to these polls. But what would be the main impediment to her winning against Donald Trump.
STIREWALT: Well, the main impediment she would have would be against Donald Trump would be that he would be trying to steal plenty of liberal votes from her. Remember, his base is not the conservative part of the Republican Party. His base is with self-described liberal to moderate Republicans. A conservatives of Republicans line-up with Ben Carson and then you moved on from there on to Rubio, Fiorina, Bush, et cetera.
KELLY: But in a lot of these polls, he's leading with conservatives when you break the polls down. He is leading with the conservatives.
STIREWALT: No question. But he has a set of views. He would have to try to raid her White voters essentially. He would have to try to steal march on her and raid her White voters while she was simultaneously trying to get National Security hawks and other people off of him.
STIREWALT: It would be a terrible mess. But it would come down to this.
STIREWALT: It would be very confusing. But it would come down to this. You've got undecided voters leftover. The key there would be how well Donald Trump would do with white women. And that's where I think his biggest challenges, I don't think he could get his numbers up among minorities to sufficiently to come and say, he'd have to do it with White women and he has a bigger problem there than I think people probably realize.
KELLY: He's had some troubles even with GOP women. Although he's doing a little better with them now, Dana.
KELLY: But look at the numbers on women. We'll put them on the board. This is all women. Not just GOP. Unfavorable, 62 percent.
PERINO: That's high. That's high. It's not insurmountable, I think for him. And I think what's been happening the last several months is, you know how it is when you say you have a big event to go to. Say at this point, it's the election. You need a dress to wear at the event. So, for the last several months, people have been walking by the windows going, oh, that might look good at that event. So, they're window shopping.
KELLY: That will make your butt look big.
PERINO: And so, now they're about to take three-to-four outfits into the dressing room. Okay? So now, they're thinking, well, could I see myself voting for a Donald Trump? Now, there might be some women who say, absolutely not. And that there might be an increasing number that say, yes, okay, maybe I could say that. Let me hear some more. He's going to have to try to persuade them. He has a whole there. But --
KELLY: Okay. But here's --
PERINO: I think it's the whole with Hispanics that's even more difficult.
KELLY: And the Republicans have been working for months to try to build up support with Hispanics. It's not like they misunderstood what happened with Romney and Hispanics.
PERINO: Two years of a huge amount of effort. And the Mexicans are rapists and the comments that he made back then which he's not exactly apologized for, but he said that was taken out of context. It was too much. That actually that stuck and that's the other thing about --
KELLY: Well, and his illegal immigration policies have hurt him with his Hispanic votes.
KELLY: But helped him immensely, Stirewalt --
PERINO: That's right.
KELLY: When it comes to the GOP voters. And that's one of the reasons why his numbers with were so high with the republican base.
STIREWALT: And that's my point, I think that it would mostly be for Trump a lost cause with none white voters. He might do a little better here, he might do a little better there. But when you come down to it, his only shot would be a historic, unprecedented increase among his share of white voters. He have to jack up the percentage of White voters.
KELLY: And the White voting electorate is shrinking the country should know. It's down, I mean, considerably from the Reagan years and so on. So, the electorate is shrinking on when it comes to White voters and so, he would need an even greater proportion.
STIREWALT: He'd have to reverse the trend in that regard, which is doable. But then inside that, again, with female voters, he would have to find a way to get female voters, moderate, independent or even democratic- leaning, white women away from Hillary Clinton. And let me tell you something, she's going to be tough to beat on white women. She struggled with them on a period of time. But her poll numbers have consolidated. And she is doing progressively better. Provided she doesn't have catastrophic e-mail syndrome failure explosion --
KELLY: That's the risk.
STIREWALT: That's the risk.
KELLY: That's the risk for the Democrats and Joe Biden staying out. Because now, I mean, assuming Sanders can't get it done, it's -- she may lock it up. But she's got a major potential liability. And there ain't no back-up plan. Although Joe Biden saying, hey, you know --
STIREWALT: He's available.
KELLY: Unfortunately, I'm out, but you know, if you need me.
PERINO: The good news for Donald Trump is that with white republican women, they actually kind of like her, like him better than her. I mean --
KELLY: Yes. Yes. They're not going to vote just based on gender. Okay, great to see you both.
STIREWALT: You bet.
KELLY: Also, tonight, dishonesty, politics and war. Two politicians caught blatantly misleading.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN ANCHOR: Do you believe that American boots should stay on the ground in Afghanistan?
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We made a terrible mistake getting involved there in the first place. I've never said we've made mistake going into Afghanistan.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: This -- our question was about Afghanistan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Uh-hm. And Mr. Trump is not alone. Vice President Joe Biden also on the hot seat, not to mention Hillary Clinton. Those three again, when we come back.
And Pete Hegseth will weigh in on how this place with the troops.
Plus, after this cop was shot dead in New York, the judge who put his killer on the street is now defending his decision. Former LAPD Detective Mark Fuhrman and former NYPD Commissioner Bernie Kerik are here on the growing controversy.
And we are now less than 24 hours away from what could be a dramatic showdown between Hillary Clinton and the select committee investigating Benghazi. Tomorrow, she testifies. And tonight, we will hear from both a member of the committee and a good friend of one of the men murdered by the terrorists who attacked our facility in Benghazi.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She's lying. She's absolutely lying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Developing tonight, dishonesty, policy and war. Two leading politicians. Donald Trump and Vice President Joe Biden were caught this week misleading on their positions about war and the American military. First up, Donald Trump who touts himself as a straight talker. Just yesterday, he told CNN that he supported the war in Afghanistan and did not believe it was a mistake. That was news to the anchors who have heard exactly the opposite from Mr. Trump just two weeks ago. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CAMEROTA: Let me just read to you what you said on October 6th about Afghanistan. You said we made a terrible mistake getting involved there in the first place.
TRUMP: No, we made a -- no, no.
CAMEROTA: "We had real brilliant thinkers that didn't know what the hell they were doing, and it's a mess."
TRUMP: We made a mistake going into Iraq. I've never said we made a mistake going into Afghanistan.
CAMEROTA: This -- our question was about Afghanistan. That day on October 6th...
TRUMP: Okay. I've never said that. Okay. Wouldn't matter. I never said it.
CUOMO: What about Afghanistan? Do you believe that American boots would stay on the ground in Afghanistan to stabilize a situation?
TRUMP: I wouldn't totally disagree with it except, you know, at some point, they're going to be there for the next 200 years. We made a terrible mistake getting involved there in the first place. We had a real brilliant thinkers that didn't know what the hell they were doing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Here it is again, shorter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: Do you believe that American boots should stay on the ground in Afghanistan?
TRUMP: We made a terrible mistake getting involved there in the first place.
I've never said we've made a mistake --
CAMEROTA: This -- our question was about Afghanistan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: An obvious reversal. But he is not the only one. Vice President Joe Biden yesterday tried to revise his own history on the raid that killed Usama bin Laden. Back in 2011, when President Obama was deciding whether to authorize that mission, the President looked around the situation room and asked for his top advisor's opinions. What did Joe Biden say? Depends on when you ask him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: He walked out of the room and walked upstairs. I said -- I told him my opinion. That I thought he should go, but follow his own instincts.
It's got to be, Joe, what do you think? I said we owe the man a direct answer. Mr. President, my suggestion is, don't go. We had to do two more things to see if he's there. He walked out and said I'll give you my decision.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Here it is again. Shorter.
BIDEN: I told him my opinion that I thought he should go.
I said, Mr. President, my suggestion is don't go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: So does this matter? A Fox News contributor. Joining us now is Pete Hegseth, a Fox News contributor as well as an Iraq and Afghanistan war veteran. He's now the CEO of Concerned Veterans for America. Pete, thanks for being here. Does it matter?
PETE HEGSETH, CEO, CONCERNED VETERANS FOR AMERICA: Megyn, it definitely matters. History matters because it frames what we do in the future. I mean, Vice President Biden, they say that victory has -- John F. Kennedy said, victory has a hundred fathers. Defeat is an orphan. I mean, when he said that yesterday, he was still considering whether he was going to run for president. And he wanted to be the guy in hindsight who said, Mr. President, I thought you should do it and I believe you should do it, especially in setting and making sure he was on par with Hillary Clinton.
So, this is political expediency, this is rewriting history to make it looked like he's on the right side of history as it pertains to the Bin Laden raid. As far as Donald Trump, he is just flat out changing his position. And, frankly, I think falling into the narrative of the left, and he's done this time and time again on Iraq, the whole thing is a disaster. He ignores the surge. In Afghanistan, he's so militaristic. He's got to be for something. So, he's got to be in Afghanistan. But yet, he wouldn't tear up the Iran deal and he thinks he can work with Putin. It looks a lot like Barack Obama's foreign policy. He's going back and forth, he's been good on a lot of domestic stuff, but, internationally, I don't know where Donald Trump is.
KELLY: I mean, two weeks ago in Afghanistan, he told those CNN anchors that it was a mistake to go in. It was two weeks, not two years. And then two weeks later, completely denied that he had ever said it.
HEGSETH: No, it's unacceptable. It shows I think a shallowness in the understanding of that region, the implications of words on the international stage. Also, he said, you know, what are we going to be there, for 200 years? That's very similar to what Obama said to John McCain in 2008 about Iraq. What are we going to be there, for 100 years? It's a strawman argument that doesn't actually look at the strategic ramifications of finishing wars properly. And as a result, he devolves into, the whole Iraq war is a disaster. And we shouldn't be in Afghanistan as well. And then he realizes, well, that's not a great position. So, two weeks later, he tries to make us all pretend like, no, no, I didn't say that. I said, I want to be in Afghanistan. That's not clarity. That's not leadership. That is waffling back and forth on really critical issues especially for guys that's serving those places and believe in the legacy of finishing them properly.
KELLY: And then you've got Hillary Clinton who, depending on who you ask, may or may not have done the same thing. Listen to what she said about the Bin Laden raid versus what the Vice President said about how it went down just yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It was a really tough decision to advise on. Because, you know, we didn't have the smoking gun.
I was one who recommended to the President that he go ahead. And his advisors were split.
BIDEN: There were only two people who were definitive. And were absolutely certain. Leon Panetta said go and Bob Gates has already publicly said this, don't go.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: So now people are accusing her along with Vice President Joe Biden of some sort of stolen glory. Trying to get in on these decisions that sent men in that particular case into harm's way. And it worked out well, as we know --
KELLY: -- in the Abbottabad raid.
HEGSETH: Thank God!
KELLY: But after the fact, they come out and say, it was all me. And this is not just your average political lying, this involves war in the military, Pete, something we tend to hold as sacred in this country.
HEGSETH: This involves the 3 a.m. phone call, this is what Presidents get paid to do. To make this critical decisions. And the Vice President and the Secretary of State in this case, they were going on behind after it happened, the way they wanted to and try to rewrite the history to make it look like they were the ones at the critical moment that made call. You have to give credit to Barack Obama for making that call in light of what was clearly a conflicted situation.
HEGSETH: The people in a room and behind closed doors giving him different perspectives. And Hillary Clinton needs this because her foreign policy record is terrible. From Libya to elsewhere to Iran, I mean, she's got serious problems so she is clinging to this Biden -- do the same thing.
HEGSETH: It's politics and war. And you need -- what George W. Bush knew, love him or hate him. If he knew where he stood and he was going to do it whether he was popular or not, that's what you need with leadership and we're not seeing it across the board right now with the three folks we just talked about.
KELLY: Pete Hegseth, it's great to see you. Thanks for being here.
HEGSETH: Thank you.
KELLY: And speaking of leadership, our next guest have a new book out on this very topic. Leif Babin and Jocko Willink are two decorated former Navy SEAL officers who led the most highly decorated highly special operations units of the entire Iraq war. They are the authors of "Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win." Leif also happens to be married to our own Jenna Lee, a Fox News anchor. It's great to see you both.
JOCKO WILLINK, FORMER NAVY SEAL OFFICER: Great to see you.
KELLY: Thank you for being here.
So, it's great timing on an incredible book. And congrats on all the great early reviews that it's received. But leadership and the principles that you espoused on this book among others are, when you're wrong, when you make a mistake, you admit it.
WILLINK: Absolutely. And, you know, I just got asked earlier, did I ever make mistakes in my career? And the answer is, absolutely. I made all kind of mistakes. When I did, I stepped up to the plate and said hey, guys, this is my fault. What can we do to fix it?
KELLY: What does it say about somebody when they refused -- they refused to admit a mistake?
WILLINK: I actually feel embarrassed for them. Because it's just a complete lack of leadership and lack of ownership.
KELLY: Uh-hm. You said that this is actually the number one characteristic of a good leader is the willingness to acknowledge your mistakes and then develop a plan to recognize reality and develop a plan thereafter.
LEIF BABIN, FORMER NAVY SEAL OFFICER: That's correct. If you can't own up to mistakes, if all you're doing is blaming and making excuses, then you're never going to actually develop that plan to overcome those challenges.
BABIN: And I think what you just saw there is really, that shows a lack of belief in the mission. That's also something that's really important for leaders. Is that you believe in the greater strategic goals of what you're trying to accomplish. So that you can explain that, the why, to your troops --
KELLY: You know, we've heard a lot of that about -- you know, not as much Afghanistan, but a lot of second guessing on Iraq saying it wasn't worth it, that we never should have been in there. That something Trump openly says that he didn't support the Iraq war. You guys fought there, you captured the city of Ramadi, your unit, what do say?
WILLINK: We absolutely believed in what we were doing. And, looking back, I know that there was great sacrifices made. It actually sickens my heart now to see the black flag of ISIS flying over Ramadi. But I know that what we were doing was the right thing to do. We were facing a pure evil enemy. And we were fighting them there, so they won't come here. And on top of that, there's Iraqi people that live in that city. And they absolutely wanted us there. They wanted to be stable and free and live in peace.
KELLY: I know in this book, not only in this book, but in your life, you have seminars where you teach guys and gals about leadership and you've helped not only military guys but families. Marriages including. Leif, so you 'married to our own beautiful Jenna Lee. You have a beautiful little baby boy, Trace. And how -- how does this advice in this book translate to families and marriages and people who might be looking not just help their businesses but their lives?
BABIN: I think it absolutely translates directly. And if you take ownership and look in the mirror instead of just casting blame, it makes a difference across the spectrum. We actually had a client that we worked with, who told us that "Extreme Ownership" saved his marriage. That he was blaming everything on his spouse, and he had to look in the mirror after we talked about this and said, what can I do to change the opposite.
KELLY: Now, do you do this with Jenna or you just said, right upfront? You're right, honey. I was wrong, I was wrong again.
BABIN: You know what? I certainly take (INAUDIBLE) mistakes. I don't think she would agree with that.
KELLY: I'm going to email her right now.
It's great to see you guys again. The book is "Extreme Ownership: How U.S. Navy SEALs Lead and Win." And if you guys -- just look at their bios and see what these two guys have done, and you will actually know their story by this book because they actually what they're talking about when it comes to how to lead. Good to see you both.
BABIN: Thank you, Megyn.
WILLINK: Thank you.
KELLY: Well, we also have big developments tonight with the New York City police officer shot dead last night. As the judge who released his killer is now defending his decision.
Plus, another stunning twist in the story of Texas teen behind the school project that looked like a bomb. And then, why are towns now canceling Halloween? Yes, schools over concerns about diversity. Halloween is now racist.
Dana Loesch is next.
KELLY: A terrifying blow dealt to the students at Seth Boyden Elementary in New Jersey. After the school called off all Halloween celebrations citing concerns about diversity as the reason. And they are not alone. Apparently, according to some, Halloween is now racist.
Dana Loesch is the host of "Dana" on The Blaze TV and a big fan of the holiday, unbeknownst to us. But she has the whole history of Halloween she's going to disclose to us. So, Dana, they say the little cupcakes cannot be allowed to celebrate Halloween at school because it's offensive to the school's diverse student body. And you say?
DANA LOESCH, HOST OF "DANA," THE BLAZE TV: Well, I'm sure it's really upsetting to the Frankenstein and Dracula and Master Chief and Rainbow Bright and all of the other fictional communities that are out there. That's what kids dressed up as.
KELLY: This is you. That whole picture.
LOESCH: Yes. My mom dressed me up as a drunk hobo. It was probably one of the moist political incorrect costume ever conceived.
I carried around an empty beer can, it was amazing. Child services would have been called previously.
KELLY: Yes. You would be booted right out of that school district in New Jersey today for a different kind of offense. But they're saying that this is a kind of segregation they cannot tolerate. That 20 percent of the student body did not dress up. And therefore, in the interest of being inclusive of everyone, no one may celebrate Halloween.
LOESCH: These are adults that are pushing their boring adult life baggage onto these kids and ruining their Halloween. What would our lives be, if it without thriller and Vincent Price and Trick or Treating or like the really bad honeybee candy.
KELLY: Just go do it in a door-to-door at Halloween night? You don't need to do in school.
LOESCH: Right. No, exactly. And you would think progressives would love this. Because this is their holiday. I mean, you go door to door and you get free things while appropriating fictional identity.
KELLY: That's like the Bernie Sanders approach to Halloween. I don't know if it's all progressives. But here's the thing, it's not just the school district in New Jersey. It's also, there was one in Connecticut. And the parent there was so ticked off. The school had to reverse itself. But they said the same thing, respect for diversity. The goal is for all children to feel comfortable. What about the 80 percent who are really enjoying it?
LOESCH: Exactly. And I don't know what's wrong with those 20 percent. If they don't want to dress up, that's no skin off of our backs. I mean, it didn't bother me if nobody wanted to dress up. And if people are upset over a Halloween costume and the fact that it's an 80/20 situation, they need to re-evaluate the priorities in their lives, Megyn.
LOESCH: They're ruining Halloween for kids.
KELLY: Not only that, the parents said, why don't you offer another activity for the 20 percent who don't want to, you know, go to the Halloween parade. Why does the 80 percent have to give up something that's been a tradition in this country for a long, long time. But that is not how they felt in New Jersey or Connecticut. So, we'll see. We'll continue to follow it. And by the way, the same school in New Jersey, they are allowing harvest festival, Turkey trot, book fair fun night and dancing classrooms. Now, you want to talk about alienation of kids.
LOESCH: That's some punishments.
KELLY: Dancing classrooms. Good luck getting 80 percent participation in that. Good to see you, Dana.
LOESCH: Thanks, Megyn.
KELLY: We were forced to do the square dancing. Did you ever have to do it, James?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
KELLY: Yes, right. Very awkward. You had to touch other students and like, now you get, run up charges. Also, tonight, we are now just 12 hours away from former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, testifying before the Benghazi committee. It starts tomorrow morning at 10 a.m. Her camp contends the questioning will be highly partisan, but one veteran who knew one of the four men killed in Benghazi tells a very different story. He joins us next.
And we have live pictures, look at this, of the empire state building here in New York City tonight, bathed in blue for the police officer killed last night at just age 33. And now the judge who released his killer is defending the decision.
Former LAPD Detective Mark Fuhrman and former NYPD Commissioner Bernie Kerik are here. Don't go away, that's next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL BRATTON, NYC POLICE COMMISSIONER: A five year veteran of the New York City Police Department was killed in the line of duty -- murdered. He is the fourth New York City police officer murdered in this city in the last 11 months.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRATTON: . fourth New York City police officer murdered in this city in the last 11 months.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: The fact is we have four dead Americans.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I understand.
CLINTON: Was it because of a protest, or was it because of guys out for walk they decided they go kill some Americans. What's difference at this point does it make?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: That was then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton during her sometimes contentious testimony more than two years ago, following the terror attack that killed four Americans at our consulate in Benghazi, Libya. It's now roughly 12 hours until Mrs. Clinton testifies again. And there are lots of questions from those who knew the four men lost that night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICIA SMITH, MOTHER OF SEAN SMITH WHO WAS KILLED IN 2012 BENGHAZI ATTACK: I still want to know -- I saw on TV, these bloody finger prints on the walls over there. I asked specifically, are those my son's finger prints crawling down the wall, the bloody fingerprints. Nobody ever got back to me on that. Are those his fingerprints? Were those his fingerprints? What happened?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Joining me now, a woman who had the chance to question Mrs. Clinton tomorrow. Congresswoman Martha Roby, Republican from Alabama. Great to see you tonight, ma'am, thank you for being here. So, what of that.
REP. MARTHA ROBY, R-ALA., BENGHAZI SELECT COMMITTEE: Thank you for having me.
KELLY: Is the plan to get into specifics like that, because the last time around, it was a lot of grand standing.
ROBY: Well, first and foremost, we need to stay with calm. Unfortunately, because a lot of dragging of feet and stone walling by the State Department and others is taking us a long time to get here. And of course, our hearts go out to the families whom we've met with of the victims, the four Americans who unnecessarily lost their lives, and that's the charge of this committee. This committee was charged to find the truth. We're on a fact-finding mission to.
KELLY: But to my point -- you know, is that going to happen? Because the last time what we saw was a lot of puffery by Republicans, who seem to want to appear smart on camera, but not to get answers to questions.
ROBY: Well this is the first time this committee has had the opportunity to speak to Secretary Clinton. And of course, we also now have information that we didn't have in the past. Even though it took a really long time to get it, we now have documents to ask questions that will fill in the missing pieces. Secretary Clinton, this is -- this investigation is not about her. She's just a small piece of it, are an important piece, but a piece of it. We've done.
KELLY: Is it seem -- did you up all the questioning to those on the committee who are, you know, most adept at asking question in any other former prosecutors, for example?
ROBY: Well certainly, we had interest based on our experiences. But, you know, the questions are for her to get -- for her to have an opportunity to be forthright with the committee, to show us candor, to answer our questions so that we can have a report that is complete, on behalf of these four Americans that unnecessary lost their lives. This is a fact-finding mission and we have -- she was secretary of state at the time and it's incumbent upon her to answer the questions that relate to her role and which has took place.
KELLY: And you have the e-mails the last time around. That's the bottom line to those who say this is repetitive.
ROBY: Well, we still don't have all the e-mails.
KELLY: I know. You didn't have any of them last time because she wouldn't.
KELLY: She wouldn't be producing them. We'll be watching, Congressman. Thank you for being here.
ROBY: Thank you so much for having me.
KELLY: Joining me now, Brandon Webb, he's a former Navy SEAL and a close friend of Glen Doherty who was murdered in Benghazi. He's also in the author of the book, "Among Heroes: A U.S. Navy SEAL's Story of Friendship, Heroism, and the Ultimate Sacrifice."
Richard Socarides is also here. He's a White House senior adviser under President Bill Clinton and a democratic strategist. Thank you both for being here. Brandon, what specifically are you going to be looking for tomorrow?
BRANDON WEBB, AUTHOR, "AMONG HEROES": I mean the big question I have for Hillary is. Is why didn't she hold Patrick Kennedy and Charlene Lamb accountable? I mean those, those are the two individuals at the State Department. All the evidence points to their negligence with the security situation.
KELLY: They were warned. They were told. It was deteriorating. They needed more help.
WEBB: Charlene Lamb's office getting the cables, that there's continued request for help, and nobody's held accountable. And as a Navy SEAL chief petty officer, one of the first things we learn about leadership is holding yourself accountable, and holding your subordinates accountable. So I really want to know how are these people still able to operate as business as usual because they.
KELLY: So your position is not necessary Hillary shouldn't have known everything. It's that she knows who is responsible and she didn't do anything.
WEBB: Yeah, I understand that her role as the secretary of state, she was not involved in day-to-day operations. But clearly, Kennedy and Charlene Lamb were -- and all the evidence that in the reporting that we did on (inaudible) points to just extremely negligence on Kennedy and Charlene Lamb's part.
KELLY: But why is she protecting them? Give me particular.
WEBB: Yeah, we're.
KELLY: Give me particular. And that is the same guy, Patrick Kennedy, who is overseeing her -- processing on her e-mails. And the one who should have been keeping shop on those e-mails.
WEBB: A guy that also held Ambassador Stevens' personal laptop and his dairy in his office for almost 30 day before turning it over to the FBI. So there's a clear case of a lack of transparency and a lack of accountability across the board. And that's very concerning to me.
KELLY: Richard, I know the democrats say look, there are seven committees have investigating Benghazi, right? So, why they needed eight?
RICHARD SOCARIDES, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Seven bipartisan committees.
KELLY: But to the point about the.
SOCARIDES: Including the one that Congresswoman Roby chaired.
KELLY: But you.
SOCARIDES: Including the one that she previously chaired.
KELLY: You know that in the law, if you have a case and the case goes all the way to settlement, and you find out after the verdict or the settlement that the other side didn't produce critical documents to you, you can re-open the case.
KELLY: She did not produce her e-mails.
SOCARIDES: All that material was. I think all of those materials -- we'll know tomorrow if they have anything new. I mean that.
KELLY: It wasn't them.
SOCARIDES: They've suggested that they may have some new e-mails but, but not from her, right? I mean they've suggested that they have some other e-mails.
KELLY: All of her e-mails were withheld.
SOCARIDES: Well, Megyn.
KELLY: For all of those primary investigations.
SOCARIDES: OK, so let just take a step back here, right? I mean the congresswoman said, "This is not about her." I mean that is crazy. Obviously, tomorrow in her testimony is all about her. Obviously, this committee -- this whole process that the committee to involve this all about her. The House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy said, in fact, we set up this committee so to push down her poll number. I mean.
KELLY: Certainly about her impart, but.
SOCARIDES: Well, I mean listen.
KELLY: Is that so wrong?
KELLY: Is that so wrong?
SOCARIDES: No, I don't -- I actually think that the American people know that this has become very political that this is not an effort to find out really what happened in Benghazi. This is not an effort to improve diplomatic security.
KELLY: How can you say that in light (ph) about mother you just saw a clip from CNN.
SOCARIDES: I know, listen.
KELLY: And also, Brandon. His best friend was killed.
SOCARIDES: And you know -- and Hillary Clinton lost a very close friend and Ambassador Chris Stevens that night. So you don't think she mourns her Ambassador Stevens as we all do.
KELLY: Go ahead.
SOCARIDES: I mean I want to say thank you for your service. And I think that it is true -- obviously, everybody thinks this is a tragedy what happened. But it's a tragedy that affected all of us. And these were really an effort to get at.
KELLY: I understand that, but she.
KELLY: But she was in charge. I want to give him the last word.
WEBB: Yeah, I mean there's talk and then there's action. I mean you could -- I can listen to politicians say, "Oh, my heart goes out to the families." But the fact is, one of the issues that came up from all the attention on the Benghazi committee is, there's always 50 families of contractors since 1983 in the Beirut barracks bombing who have not been paid to death benefit. Like my best friend Glen Doherty. His family -- so we have an American here who give his life from Benghazi, his family goes to the White House, they got a bunch of lip service from Hillary. And at the end of the day, the family has left holding the bag as far as, not even getting a basic death benefit to bury their family members.
KELLY: Right. You got a $3,000 payment and that was it.
WEBB: And you've got two initiatives held up in the House right now. You have an initiative of the (inaudible) and my friend Glen's name. That's held up in the House, it is supposed to reform the Defense base Act and provide relief for these families. You have an initiative for.
KELLY: And we're not there.
KELLY: We're not there. Dianne Feinstein and another.
WEBB: Yeah, and the CIA.
KELLY: Put the brakes on. I got to go.
WEBB: The Senate Intel committee also held up and these career- politicians. I think Americans are just sick of this paralysis by analysis this time for action and take care of these families.
KELLY: Thank you both. I appreciate it.
We have live pictures of a moving site right now here in New York City. The Empire State Building fade in blue for a young police officer killed in the line of duty last night.
And tonight, the judge who released his killer is defending his decision. We share that next when former LAPD Detective Mark Fuhrman and former NYPD Commissioner Bernie Kerik, joins us live.
KELLY: Breaking Tonight. A New York judge defending his decision to release a convicted criminal back on to the streets of New York. A criminal who is charged just moments ago with murdering Police Officer Randolph Holder, the fourth New York City cop to lose his life this year. Trace Gallagher live in our west coast news room. Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, LOS ANGELES: Megyn, the alleged cop killer, 32-year- old Tyrone Howard was thought to be involved last night in a gun battle in East Harlem. Thirty-three year old Officer Randolph Holder was among those who responded. Investigators say the suspect was riding his bike when he came across Officer Holder and his partner, and opened fire. Striking Holder in the forehead and killing him. The suspect then fled the scene and was arrested a short time later. He kept telling police his name was Juan Gonzalez, until facial recognize confirmed he was in fact Tyrone Howard, a career criminal who was supposed to be in prison. But a judge sent him to withdraw diversion program, instead. Today the judge defended that decision saying, quote, "I don't get a crystal ball when I get this role. The defendant Howard at the time was 30-years-old. He had four felony drug convictions, no violence." Except it turns Tyrone Howard had been arrested 28 times, jailed 12 times, not just for drugs, but also for assault and robbery, both violent offenses. And in 2009, he was arrested in connection with a shooting that injured three people including 7 and 11-year-old boys. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRATTON: If ever there was a candidate not to have been diverted, it would be this guy. He's a poster boy for not being diverted. So the district attorney's office will look into the circumstances of that diversion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Tyrone Howard also failed to complete his drug diversion program, and was currently wanted on three warrants, including yet another shooting in September. Howard's attorney lobbied for his client to be sent to drug rehab saying, "Prison would be hard on his two kids," not nearly as hard as it will now beyond Holder's wife and 16-year-old daughter -- Megyn?
KELLY: Trace, thank you. And there are not only questions about this judge's decision, but the on-going reforms to the U.S. justice system, that are setting thousands of convicted criminals back onto the streets, programs that many of the presidential candidates now running, support. Mark Fuhrman is a Fox News contributor and former LAPD detective, Bernie Kerik is the former commissioner of the NYPD. Good to see you both, so.
BERNIE KERIK, FORMER NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: Thank you.
KELLY: Bernie, let me start with you. As somebody who is not only former commissioner, but full disclosure, spent some time in prison. You're in support of these reforms, to let some of these drug offenders out early and sort of give them a second chance, but you look at the situation that happened with Officer Holder, and you think is it such a good idea?
KERIK: Well, here's the thing. One, I'm talking about first-time, non- violent offenders. I don't think they should go to prison. I don't think they may need prison. This is a very different story. This guy is 28 times arrested, and I know at the beginning of the segment, somebody said there was no violence -- or the judge said there was no violence. There actually was violence in the guy's background. There's no way.
KELLY: Just arrests, though, not convictions for violent crimes.
KERIK: But you know what, how many times have you have to be arrested? You know, I think the judge -- the diversion into a program, I think it was wrong. I think somebody should have been looking at this guy. And as the Commissioner Bratton has said today, what was he still doing on the street? You know, he was wanted for another shooting involve on the state.
KELLY: They said they couldn't find him, Mark. They couldn't find the guy even though he was wanted for another shooting. And the Judge is now saying look. That the (inaudible) want it six years, but there was a letter from this guy's social worker and his child's mother, asking for special treatment saying, it would have been -- would make life tough for the young woman and her two kids if he wasn't put in this diversion program that allowed him to skip jail.
MARK FUHRMAN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, Megyn, when you really understand the career criminal, their whole life is about lying and manipulating the authorities to stay on the street. And the commissioner is absolutely correct. The drug diversion program, since they were started in the '70s, have been specifically targeting for the first time offender to keep them out of prison and get them rehabilitated and back into a livelihood, back into the mainstream. They're not for violent, career criminals. This judge is a fool. He's an idiot. He had a probation report. He had a rap sheet. He knew everything this man was involved in. And let me tell you, if you're arrested 28 times, you've committed 2 or 300 crimes to be able to get that lucky, to be actually arrest him 28 times.
KELLY: You know the -- Commissioner, this murder underscores the danger that cops says everyday that is ignored by so many when they asses this situation to see on video.
KERIK: And you know what? Nobody knows better than Mark. You know, I was with the chief of the LAPD today, the superintendent of Chicago, we're all here talking about reform issues. There are a hundred and thirty law enforcement leaders around the country, here in Washington D.C., talking about this, but the number one thing that came up in this meeting was the job that they have to do. The cops have to do on a daily basis. Go out and put their lives on the line. Go out and run into gunfire when others run away. And yet we still -- they still get criticized and they're still bashed, you know, by people out there, critics. It's a shame.
KERIK: And this death is a shame.
KELLY: Guys, thank you both so much. We appreciate seeing you.
FUHRMAN: Thank you.
KELLY: Up next, a day nearly 30 years in the making.
KELLY: Well, the day "Back to the Future" fans have been waiting for has finally arrived. In the second installment, Marty McFly time travels to -- yes, October 21st, 2015. So how does a movie prediction of futuristic hoverboards held up against reality? Trace Gallagher knows. What's the story?
GALLAGHER: The best way to do this -- well, the best way to do this, Megyn is it kind to give you a side by side look of the things Marty and Doc Brown came upon him their version of 2015 and the things that we truly have today, beginning with drones. In Back to the Future II, flying drones and everything from walk the dog to capture news video, our drones don't exactly walk dogs, but they are prevalent enough that laws can't keep up with them. The film predicted that in 2015, wireless devices could be used to pay for things like cab fare. They never dreamed of Uber, but the prediction of electronics payments was spot on. And remember Marty's future self getting fired during a video phone call? Now we have Facetime and Skype. The film also dreamed up future Facebook, where personal details, occupation and political leanings are all shared electronically. Then there are the video glasses. You know, where Marty and Jennifer's future kids ignore their families watching TV on those electronic glasses. Well, Google glass isn't exactly lighting the world on fire today, but they do exist. You can also make the argument that we kind of have self-lacing shoes because Nike is now working on perfecting them. And that we also have hoverboards, problem is, they're just called hoverboards. They don't exactly hover off the ground. They have wheels. And finally, the movie predicted that for the first time in 107 years, the Chicago Cubs would win the World Series in 2015. The Cubs still have a shot, but boy, it ain't looking good.
KELLY: There's always hope. Trace, great to see you.
KELLY: We'll be right back with a question for you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SMITH: She's lying. She's absolutely lying.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Patricia Smith, the mother of Sean Smith, killed in Benghazi is our guest tomorrow night. Don't miss that. And here's a question for you. Do you believe the committee tomorrow will spend the day grandstanding or asking real questions to Mrs. Clinton? Let us know at facebook.com/thekellyfile or on Twitter @megynkelly.
And in the meantime a follow to our Halloween story. Here are some apparently divisive moments from my own past. Here's my son. Here's my dog Basha, who was supposed to be a flapper, but some said she looked like a hooker. And there's yours truly with Hemmer back in the "America's Newsroom" days. What are you going to be?
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