How will establishment react if Trump seizes GOP nomination? Should pregnancy centers be forced to promote abortion?

Report: GOP bracing for 'war' with the presidential candidate; Brit Hume provides insight on 'The Kelly File'


This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," October 20, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, two big political stories. First, Congressman Paul Ryan jumping into the race to be the man, the top man, that is, in Congress. Brit Hume on that in a moment.

Second, a series of new polls starting to suggest that businessman Donald Trump is running away with the Republican race and is touching off talk of a republican war to stop the current frontrunner.

Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly.

"The Kelly File" has tracked nomination polls for four months, and only one discernible trend has emerged. Celebrity, reality star outsider, a man who has never held political office is the frontrunner. Since mid-July, Trump has been first in 33 out of 34 national polls. And the latest surveys continue to bear that out. First up, CNN with a new poll out today. Trump in first with a five-point lead, up three points over CNN's last poll. Monmouth also released today. Trump trouncing the closes competitor Dr. Ben Carson with a ten-point gap.

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Plus, NBC News Wall Street Journal has another new poll out. Trump at 25 percent. The highest he's ever scored in that poll. Those who said it could never happen are starting to bite their tongues.


STEPHEN MOORE, HERITAGE FOUNDATION: I do think he can win the nomination. I wouldn't have said that six weeks ago, but I think he can.  I think he's an incredibly skilled politician.

CHRIS WALLACE, ANCHOR, FOX NEWS SUNDAY: I know all of us dismiss Trump early on. All of the so-called experts. The summer fling, momentary amusement. I am beginning to believe he could be elected president of the United States.

JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC CO-HOST, "MORNING JOE": The republican establishment for the first time saying, off the record, this guy could win. I mean, the top people.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I've heard that from everybody. I don't hear anybody saying he can't win the nomination anymore.


KELLY: And talk like that has touched off headlines like these. As Byron New York, writes about, quote, "a panicked public establishment getting ready for war against Trump."

Joining me now, Fox News senior political analyst Brit Hume. Brit, great to see you. Before we get into Trump, let's just start with the news that's broken in the House tonight on Paul Ryan who's now saying he will run for speaker, assuming he has the votes. What does it mean and what does that tell us?

BRIT HUME. FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, he didn't quite say that, Megyn. What he said was that he would run for speaker and would take the job if certain conditions were meant. If he could be what he called a unifying figure. Now, a unifying figure in the republican caucus these days are not exactly stick on the ground. There's got to be coming in the windows. So he was laying down conditions under which he would accept the job. And I think a lot of people in the so-called freedom caucus who are the people that by uniting and blocking the way kept Kevin McCarthy from becoming speaker expected, I think, the speaker candidates would want to come to them and see what they wanted.

But Ryan was laying down a list of conditions. And said if he could be a unifying figure. So, he's not just talking about getting the votes.  In fact, he said he didn't want to just be a guy who barely squeaked through at 218 votes. He wants an overwhelming mandate for those people.  And basically, what he wants is, if he's speaker, he wants those people off of his back. And I'm not sure he's going to be able to get that from those people. They're pretty recalcitrant. A lot of them are responsible to constituents and I hear it all the time, who think is a rhino. And so, that being the case, it may well not come to pass.

KELLY: John Boehner better get comfortable in that spot. A way in which he agreed to hold for the --

HUME: Boehner is really eager for the Ryan thing to happen he doesn't want to stick around.

KELLY: Right. He's like, for the love of God take the baton.

HUME: Yes, he wants out.

KELLY: All right. So, a man who does not want out is Donald Trump.  And what do you make of the Byron New York piece today suggesting that the republican, quote, "establishment" is preparing for war against Trump saying, if we have to take him down, we will. The negative ads will start and we'll go after him in Iowa, we'll go after him in New Hampshire. We're not letting this man gets the GOP nomination.

HUME: And I think the -- Byron and I suspected that headline that you're showing on the screen right now is not something he would have written, somebody else wrote that headline. They're not quite at any kind of panic stage yet. But I think it's becoming clear, because it's getting late, Megyn, that his lead has persisted it so long as you just described.  You're looking at the kind of percentage of the vote that in a place like Iowa or even perhaps, even New Hampshire, could be the winning percentage.

So you posit Donald Trump as having won Iowa and New Hampshire or New Hampshire and going into South Carolina where he has a lot of support, you're looking at somebody who has got a tremendous head of steam and might become impossible to stop with a disinfected republican electorate. So, his nomination now becomes something that anybody has to say is possible.  I wouldn't go as far as Chris and say, I can quite picture him elected president. Because I think remember a lot of democratic voters have a say in that and his negatives are pretty high with Republicans. One can only imagine what they are like with most Democrats.

KELLY: Uh-hm. But, you know, one of the points that Byron makes is the Giuliani analogy that people points to doesn't hold water. Because Giuliani was ahead, he was ahead for a while, but he was never polling ahead in Iowa, in New Hampshire, in South Carolina --

HUME: That's right.

KELLY: The way that Trump has been consistently.

HUME: Right.

KELLY: And so, do you see greater staying power in Trump's numbers than we've seen in the past?

HUME: I do. I think the question is, whether when people begin to fall by the wayside, which wasn't happened, and hasn't really happened yet.  A couple of people have dropped out and it looks like there may be a few more soon. But it depends on where their support goes and whether somebody emerges as the leading alternative to him. Now, that could be Ben Carson, which would, you know, make sense in a way because after all, another constant in this cycle so far on the republican side has been the enchantment with outsiders. And I don't mean people who have been sort of outsiders within the system, I mean complete outsiders which is what Trump is. And it's also what Ben Carson is.

KELLY: Uh-hm. You've got sort of the brash, bold, businessman outsider and you've got the more gentlemanly doctor outsider in those two guys. And they are close in a lot of these polls, but Trump continues to lead in all. But I think it was an Investor's Business Daily poll, the (INAUDIBLE). Brit, great to see you.

HUME: Thanks, Megyn.   

KELLY: Also breaking tonight. New signs today pointing to Vice President Joe Biden actually jumping into this race for the Democratic nomination. But with former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton so far ahead in the polls, some are asking, could Biden jump in because he knows something about Hillary's legal troubles via the FBI that perhaps the rest of America does not.

Joining me now, pollster and CEO of Luntz Global Frank Luntz. Frank, good to see you. Is that possible? Would he possibly have knowledge of the FBI's investigation that might lead him to look at these poll numbers in which he has more than double his numbers in most of them and say, I know something you don't know.

FRANK LUNTZ, CEO, LUNTZ GLOBAL: He shouldn't. But it is certainly possible in this White House. We've seen things that we were believed never could have happened. But you have to understand Joe Biden and who he is. This man has wanted to be president since 1985. He had a very strong relationship with his son. And it's pretty clear that his son said to him on his death bed, that he wanted him to run. And that the Vice President has always thought of this as his mission and his purpose. He's never been focused on polls, he's not a traditional politician. He says what he means and means what he says. He wears his heart on his sleeve.


LUNTZ: So it's not necessarily connected to what's happening to Hillary Clinton.

KELLY: And now just, he has to make a declaration within the next few days if he wants to get on the Georgia ballot in the general election. So, it has got to happen if he's going to tell us he's running. Today, listen to this. You tell me whether this sound to you like a man who is getting ready to run for president. This is a soundbite talking about how closely he works with our current president. Listen.


VICE PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: I spend between, depending on the season, four to seven hours a day every single day with the President. I attend every meeting the President has, at his request.


KELLY: Oh, wait. No. But he said that and then he went onto differentiate himself, it sounded Frank from Hillary Clinton, who in the CNN debate was asked, who's your number one enemy, and she listed Iran.  And she listed the Republicans. And listen to what Biden said there.


BIDEN: I really respect the members up there. And I still have a lot of Republican friends. I don't think my chief enemy is the Republican Party. You know, this is a matter of, you know, making things work.  


KELLY: You're the master of words.

LUNTZ: Look, he's a gaffe a day. And he will be entertainment father for every late night show. But don't forget that one of the reasons why in your conversation with Brit earlier that Donald Trump is doing so well, it's that he's authentic. We may disagree with him. We may challenge him, but we believe that he believes what he's saying. And it's the same thing with Vice President Biden.

KELLY: Uh-hm.

LUNTZ: It's refreshing to hear him communicate that way, when you look at Secretary Clinton and what she says now, she says it. It is so fabricated that you can almost read the teleprompter in her eyes. With Joe Biden, whatever comes out, you live with it.

KELLY: Can you imagine if it's Trump v Biden. What a fun race that would be to cover.

All right, Frank, thank you.

LUNTZ: Thank you.

KELLY: Well, we also have breaking news tonight from Israel with an entire series of new terror attacks. And our first look at some deeply disturbing new videos showing crowds celebrating the stabbings of Israelis and small children, including this little girl, look at this. She's three?  Being encouraged to pick up knives and join the fight by stabbing a Jew.  Both sides up next in fierce debate over this.

Plus, the mayor of Los Angeles literally force to run for safety after black lives protesters chased him from a public event and we'll show you why.

And then, big news breaking tonight in legal battle over free speech with the state of the American Sniper Chris Kyle under new attack from former wrestler turned Governor Jesse Ventura.


JESSE VENTURA, SUED CHRIS KYLE'S STATE: They did poor mouthing three or four times talking about how this is having such an effect on the Kyle family when the reality was it was not. Does that effect on me? Do you realize this has cost me a million dollars?


(COMMERCIAL BREAK) KELLY: Breaking tonight, American's top ally in the Middle East dealing with multiple new terror attacks today. And "The Kelly File" is looking at some disturbing new videos that show exactly what kind of threat Israel is facing.

On Friday, U.N. ambassador Danny Danon showed the world the diagram on quote, "how to kill a Jew?" That he says it's being shown to Palestinian children in school. Afterschool, day in and day out. It is almost hard to believe until you see the video with the folks in the Gaza Strip celebrating this raucous stabbings in the streets while waving around huge knives and calling for more. You know, what may be one of the most disturbing videos we've seen, yet. A little girl with pigtails in her hair tells the man off camera, presumably her father, why she wants to join in on the killings.  


UNIDENTIFIED MALE (through a translator): Why do you want to stab the Jew?

UNIDENTIFIED BOY (through a translator): Because he stole our land.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They stole our land. With want do you want to stab them?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, you're so strong! Allah willing, my dear.


KELLY: Brooke Goldstein is a human rights attorney and director of the Law Fare Project. And Haroon Moghul, a senior correspondent at Religion Dispatches. And a fellow with the Institute for Social Policy and Understanding. Thank you both for being here. Deeply disturbing.

Haroon, let me start with you on this. Because you posted online a piece talking about how it's very simple. You cut off of people's peaceful options and violence is what will result. Are you justifying that behavior?

HAROON MOGHUL, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, RELIGION DISPATCHES: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. You know, actually, two years ago, I went to Israel to study with Israeli scholars and I got a lot of heat from it. From some people and some communities, because it was seen as somehow treasonous to even talked to Israelis. But when I see what's happening right now, I realize the value of that. Is that we need to be talking to each other because otherwise, the people who are monopolizing the conversation are the people who not only not talking, but they want violence.

KELLY: Uh-hm. When you see these Brooke, when you see the little children being indoctrinated, it makes you feel completely hopeless for the future.

BROOKE GOLDSTEIN, HUMAN RIGHTS ATTORNEY: Hey, you know, one of my favorite quote is by Nelson Mandela. He said, "There can be no keener revelation of a society's soul than the way in which it treats its own children." And what we've been seeing on the Palestinian front unfortunately over the past dozen of years is an intentional indoctrination and incitement directed at Muslim use, teaching them that the greatest thing they should aspire to is Jihad. It's holy war. It's suicide homicidal violence. And this is a blatant violation of these children's human rights. And when the media or politicians go on record and trying to apologize or justify this violence, what they're really saying is Muslim children don't deserve to be taught peace.

KELLY: Uh-hm.

GOLDSTEIN: They don't deserve to be taught life. They deserve to be taught a culture of death and that's exactly what we're seeing in the Palestinian --  

KELLY: Secretary Kerry is going over there now. He's going to try to meet with Abas and with Netanyahu. And, you know, I mean, many people feel it is completely hopeless and there's no chance whatsoever. How do you reason, you tell me, because many people in the United States is sympathetic to Israel? And they say, how do you reason with it with a Palestinian side that is teaching a three-year-old girls to pick up knives and stab Jews.

MOGHULL: Well, the reality is, this is what occupation does. It's dehumanizing. And it does it to everyone. It's not just like this is happening to Palestinian, it happens to Israelis. So, when I was in Israel, I was talking to kids whose parents came from the United States and moved to Israel and now put them in a situation where they have to serve in the military and that's part of an occupation regime that is fundamentally dehumanizing to both sides. That's the tragedy. And that's why --

KELLY: The specific projection is what? The expansion of the settlements?

MOGHULL: Occupation. There needs to be a Palestinian State or some kind of settlement that gives security to Israelis and dignify existence to Palestinian. And really I know it feels hopeless and this is the conflict that drags on. But what really is the alternative to not pushing negotiations? We have to keep trying and trying and trying and just keep pushing it.

KELLY: Do you believe that, that there's going to be a face in the negotiations?

GOLDSTEIN: No. But I hear -- say something like that. It's just I have to say it's an ignorance of history. All you have to do is look back at the 1929 Hebron massacre where Arabs rose up and hacked Jews to death.  Arabs have been teaching their children to kill not just Jews, but all infidels. And this is a religious war. This is not a war that was started because of the settlement. This is nothing to do with Jews building houses in Jerusalem. This is a religious duty. And what the Palestinian authority has done is exactly what ISIS is doing. Using the Koran to justify murder targeting ancient holy sites like they're targeting of Joseph's tomb.

And also, calling for the destruction of Israel as a whole. We have to stop making excuses for Palestinians that they don't make for themselves. Abas doesn't go on TV and says, let's go kill Jews so we can establish a Palestinian state and live side-by-side in peace. He says, let's kill Jews because the Koran demands us to do so and he quotes the Koran.

KELLY: Haroon?

MOGHULL: Well, this kind of violence, it's true. I mean, in the last several years and even longer, we've seen a sustained campaign, the same thing on the flipside by Israelis to destroy or damage the Palestinian churches and mosques. This has been going on for a long time. And so, the reality is look, you know, if we framed this as a religious war, there's no way out of this. If we framed this as a permanent conflict, there's no way out of this. And we know what happens when we fall for these myths, that these are permanent and doing conflicts, and they're not political conflicts.

KELLY: But do you draw because -- we've been talking about this. Do you draw a moral equivalence between the two sides? Do you think it's equal?

MOGHULL: I am against the violence against civilians. That's the first thing. And that's across the board. I don't believe in violence against civilians. I think that the only way we're going to solve this is by ending the occupation in order to secure some kind of dignified existence for both people. That's the only way we have.  

GOLDSTEIN: Do you think violence against civilians is some sort of natural result of an occupation. That's racist. That's like saying to Muslims, we don't expect anything less of you when you're frustrated but to rise up and start stabbing two year old children. This has nothing to do with an occupation. Go online and Google. Arabs have been citing the murder of Jews since before Israel was even established. This is the religious holy war.

KELLY: Going to have to live it at that. Great debate. Thank you both.

Well, there's also new fallout tonight from one school's decision to reject the results of a student election because there were not enough minority students elected. Kevin Jackson is next on what he thinks is the real story here.

Plus, Black Lives Matter activists swarmed the Los Angeles mayor driving him from a public event. And we'll show you why.

And then caught on video, a run-in between a car and a motorcycle that ends up with two people injured and the driver of the car facing serious charges. But was the driver really in the wrong? Wait until you hear his defense. Our legal panel takes up the case.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What were you doing when you hit them?




KELLY: Developing tonight, we are getting a new look at a confrontation between protesters from the Black Lives Matter group and the mayor of Los Angeles. The mayor was holding a town hall meeting where the protesters demanded that he do more about their concerns. Well, the mayor voiced support for the group. They did not seem to care.

Trace Gallagher has the report live from our West Coast Newsroom.  Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, the meeting was held in a church in South Los Angeles, Mayor Eric Garcetti was set to address a number of issues including economic opportunity and community safety. But the meeting didn't last long. After Black Lives Matter protesters became very disruptive, first, they stood up and turned their back on the mayor.  Later, they grabbed Garcetti's microphone during the Q&A session. Watch.


At one point, Garcetti said, would he disagrees when politicians say, all lives matter because you quote, "write people out of history." That did not quite the crowd though. In fact when the mayor tried to make his way out of the building into his car, protesters also started spilling into the street. Garcetti did have police and security surrounding him, but many of the protesters tried to block his car. At least one jumped on the trunk and most kept chanting shame on you, end Black Lives Matter. Watch again.


(Protesters): Black lives they matter. Black lives they matter!


The organizers of the town hall kept urging the protesters to have a civil conversation. Instead, as you see, it became chaotic and many of the residents were outraged saying, they never got the chance to voice their legitimate concerns. Eric Garcetti has had a very tough time trying to win over the black population in South Los Angeles. Most of them voted for his opponent.

KELLY: Uh-hm.


KELLY: Trace, thank you.

Also, from the West Coast tonight, a San Francisco principal has touched off the controversy after a recent Students Council Election. When the votes were counted, she didn't believe the student council results were diverse enough for her. So she put the results on hold, didn't tell the kids who won and the backlash from parents and students has forced her to now finally release the results more than a week later. But there was still no word on whether she will try to add additional student council positions because she feels that's what they should have.

Joining me now, the executive director of and conservative radio host, Kevin Jackson. So, the principal knows better, Kevin. And she's ticked off that even though the student body is only 18 percent white, it's 56 percent Hispanic, nine percent African-American, five percent Asian, 12 percent other. She is upset that those results weren't directly resulted. The top four spots were taken by whites, Asians and mixed race students. And she's decided to somehow I guess invalidates the results or at least she had to pause and think about that for a week.

KEVIN JACKSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THEBLACKSPHERE.NET: Well, these kids are getting a great lesson Megyn in how the new Utopia liberalism works. And that is if they don't get the results that they want based on social engineering, we'll just call it all off. We'll take our ball and go home. And the sad part about it is Megyn, these kids voted. They didn't vote based on color. They didn't vote based on any color lines. They have voted the way Americans vote for the best candidates or however those kids ran. And they've nullified all the hard work that these kids put in. I ran for Student Council when I was a kid. And it's a lot of work to go out and give out candy and say vote for me and things like that. She completely nullified it.

KELLY: Right. And so, you know, the message sent to the student is you don't count. Your vote doesn't matter to me. I know better and you, students, who didn't make your decision based on race, were wrong. You need to be deciding things based on race.

JACKSON: Right. Because look. Liberals have owned the academic system for years. They've tinkered with it like a meat-head. They've broken it. They put it back together. The kids responded appropriately and it's not good enough.

KELLY: Well, and the question is too, Kevin, she talks about, you know, just wanting to be reflective of the student body. But the question is, okay, what if the results were reversed? What if they had a largely black or Latino student body population who elected white student representatives. Would she have held the results then and said no, it's not okay?

JACKSON: Sure. Great point. And you're exactly right. It would have been okay. Look, I had a similar situation with my son where he's in a 60 percent black school, all the positions for Student Council were occupied by white kids. None of the black kids ran. When you talked to the parents, they actually, you know, they were -- they felt bad about it.  But they said, you know what, I don't feel like my son has the ability to stand up for himself. What's happening in academia Megyn is, they are demoralizing these kids, these kids of color. The white kids are saying, look, I want to run. I'll do it. The Black kids and the Hispanic kids are told, don't be bold. Don't do this. Even by their peers. And the education system thinks they can fix it all when these kids are saying, look, we will vote for who is there, they do not care. This is liberalism spinning in on itself.

KELLY: So, how did they get, I mean, that raises an interesting point. By the way, in my other analogy, I meant to say, that what if you had a white student body that elected a Black Student Council or a Hispanic Student Council which she still has objected and said no, I object because it doesn't reflect the students --  

JACKSON: No, she wouldn't.

KELLY: Right?

JACKSON: So, that's the question.

KELLY: But how -- I mean, in a way almost validating her point Kevin which is, if the black students and the Hispanic students aren't feeling empowered to run, then what is a student, you know, a principal of a school to do about it? If anything.

JACKSON: Well, I'm not validating her point. What I'm making is look, we're at a time, Megyn, when you would think that Black and Hispanic kids would say hey, we've got a black president. I would want to run for these offices. So, the bigger issue is why aren't they, in some cases, they aren't running at all. So, the people, the kids are getting elected are the kids that get voted for because that's who's running. It isn't done on racial issues. It's done on popularity. It's done for a lot of reasons. But it is not in any way racist. But the problems with these bureaucrats, is they have the social engineer. They have to make these kids start seeing things in color. And instead of just accepting these results and letting them move on and enjoy what these kids have done, they have to ruin it.

KELLY: Uh-hm. You know, I ran for Student Council when I was in fifth grade and I came in second. My name was penny preserved. I ran on a platform with saving the environment.

JACKSON: I always voted for the ones who were going to give me the most stuff, Megyn. But I grew up and didn't become a liberal.

KELLY: Well, you know who I lost too? I lost to my friend, Mike Cogg (ph) who was running as George Brett who was apparently a big baseball player. I should have gone the sports route. Why don't people pick-up trash off of our playground? Kevin, great to see you.

JACKSON: You, too, Megyn.

KELLY: Up next, details on a new law that critics call the bully bill. A measure they claim promotes abortion.

And then, he was the "American Sniper" whose story became a Hollywood blockbuster. And now a big twist in the legal battle between Chris Kyle's widow and former Navy SEAL Jesse Ventura.

Plus, now the Senate democrats have blocked a plan to crack down a so- called sanctuary cities will speak to a mother whose son was killed by an illegal immigrant. And just wait until you hear her message for Congress today.


MARY ANN MENDOZA, SON KILLED BY ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT: If we continue to ignore this problem, then you just need to stay tuned because this reality show will hit a family near you soon.



KELLY: Developing tonight, fresh fallout surrounding a controversial new law in California. The measure which critics are calling the bully bill, forces pregnancy centers to provide their clients with information about public program that offers access to abortions. Shannon Bream in Washington with the story, Shannon?

SHANNON BREAM, WASHINGTON, D.C.: Megyn, California is telling family planning clinics even if their pro-life crisis pregnancy centers that they must provide patients with information about how they can go about getting an abortion, even if that's in direct conflict with the clinic's whole purpose. Providers must have either a prominent sign posted in the waiting area, or actually give the information to clients in a hardcopy or digital form. A coalition of pro-life groups and clinic has files suits. Saying the requirement undermines their entire mission and forces them to contradict their own viewpoints. They argue that California has no legitimate compelling government interest enforcing pro-life groups to give patients information about abortion.


MATT BOWMAN, ALLIANCE DEFENDING FREEDOM: The First Amendment protects the freedom of speech. It also protects your freedom not to have the government force you to speak the government's message in favor of abortion.


BREAM: We reached out to Governor Jerry Brown's office for comment. We wanted to ask him about why there isn't any exception for faith-based or pro-life clinics. His office said his signature on the bill speaks for itself. Clinics that don't comply face a first-time fine of $500 and each time after that, the fine jumps to a thousand dollars. The lawsuit against this new California measures names both Governor Brown and Attorney General Kamala Harris, a prominent democrat who is now running for Senate as defendants. The pro-life groups have asked for an immediate injunction to stop enforcement of the law and we're now waiting to hear from the court to see if it may take that step while the underlying legal dispute plays out. Megyn?

KELLY: Shannon, thank you.

For more of this, we turn to Ilyse Hogue, president of NARAL, Pro- choice America and Lila Rose, the president of Live Action. Thank you both for being here. So Lila.


KELLY: What is your objection to this law?

ROSE: There are two big objections. First of all, this is a full-on assault against the freedom of speech. Every pro-life pregnancy care center offering not for profit, free comprehensive care for women coming in other options. And secondly, it's forcing them to promote abortion. And secondly, this is an abortion industry dream come true. They're trying to cut out the competitors and take away the other options for women in the state of California and say that no, you don't have another option. You have to be offered abortion. And ultimately, that's $500, to maybe $8,000 for the later term abortion that the abortion industry -- abortion facility stand to gain every time a woman walks there.


ROSE: Because they're being promoted that by the pro-life pregnancy care centers.

KELLY: Ilyse, would you be OK because your group helped co-sponsor this law. Would you be OK if the law also required all abortion clinics and Planned Parenthood to have notices saying, this is where you can go to help with pregnancy planning, adoption options and alternatives to abortion?

ILYSE HOGUE, PRESIDENT, NARAL: You know one of the things that we differ with Lila on about this is that this is not about freedom of speech. The (inaudible) -- crisis pregnancy centers don't actually have to change anything that they're saying. All they have to do is post public signage that gives the woman the right to know what her legal options are in the state of California. And we think that right to know, that regardless of how any individual feels about abortion, we can all agree that women do better with access to information.

KELLY: OK, but if that's true.


KELLY: But let me ask you this, Ilyse, if that's true, then would you support, you know, a law mandating the posting of information on family planning and where you can go for adoption options in Planned Parenthood and other abortion clinics. And would you be OK if you think more information is better with a mandate that.

HOGUE: Licensed.

KELLY: The abortion clinics.

ROGUE: Megyn.

KELLY: Have to tell those women.

ROGUE: Yeah.

KELLY: What's -- what their fetus looks like before they abort it?

ROGUE: Licensed.

KELLY: And what will happen during the abortion procedure?

ROGUE: Licensed clinics already actually adhere to this law. They've provided options about -- information about options from adoption to pre- natal care, to legally accessible abortion. That is already happening.

ROSE: Ilyse.

KELLY: Hold on Lila.

ROGUE: Before this law. It's started with pregnancy centers.

ROSE: Planned Parenthood and abortion.

ROGUE: Are the only ones.

KELLY: Hold on. Hold on.


KELLY: Lila, now we'll go back to Ilyse.

ROSE: Planned Parenthood and abortion facilities, their focus of abortion over 90 percent of pregnant women walking to a Planned Parenthood are going to end up having an abortion. Their focus is abortion. It is a full-on assault on the freedom of speech and it is forcing pro-lifers to be posting abortion ad effectively in their facilities. Where is it going to stop? Is California going to force churches or pro-life families or catholic schools to force -- to post abortion notices everywhere?

KELLY: OK. Let her respond.

ROSE: This is an extremely.

ROGUE: This is.

ROSE: Sick law.

KELLY: Go ahead, Ilyse.


ROGUE: As I said, this is not about freedom of speech. It's not about freedom to worship. However, anyone chooses to worship. What it is about is about setting a baseline threshold of what people that are licensed to what licensed health facilities are required to offer to their candidates. And I would ask Lila what she's so frightened of for women to have all the information about of their options.

KELLY: Go ahead Lila.

ROGUE: Because that's what.

ROSE: What they.

ROGUE: They're getting with all of the other health facilities.

ROSE: What this is about, Ilyse is it's about abortion facilities, the NARAL lobby, your lobby, national federation for abortion clinics, NAF, about Planned Parenthood trying to up abortion numbers. At the end of the day, the focus is abortion. That's why NARAL.

KELLY: What do they want to up abortion numbers?

ROSE: NARAL is against every abortion regulation and restriction. NARAL is against term limits on abortion, trying to limit the gestation that you can kill the pre-born children at. That is the real agenda of the groups that are behind this law.

KELLY: All right.

ROSE: Hurting the freedom of speech.

KELLY: I'll give you the last word, Ilyse.


KELLY: I'll give you the last word.

ROGUE: Thank you.

ROSE: And it's hurting women and children in California.

ROGUE: There is a reason that a supermajority of self-identified Catholics, republicans support Reproductive Health Act, it's because we know that women do better when have access to all of the information about all of our options. And California should be proud that they're leading the way on this.

KELLY: All right. Thank you both. We appreciate the respectful debate.

We also have Breaking News tonight on the legal battle between Former Navy SEAL and Governor Jesse Ventura and the estate of Chris Kyle, the man they call the American Sniper. Chris's widow lost in a big lawsuit and now she's fighting back in a big way.

Plus, the driver of this car says, "It was an accident," that he swerved out and took out this motorcycle on the road. But the guy on the bike says, "There was no accident." We'll report you on the side when the lawyer's joins us next.







BRADLEY COOPER, AS CHRIS KYLE ON THE AMERICAN SNIPER: Her arms aren't swinging, she's carrying something. And she's got a grenade. She's got an RKG Russian grenade. She's handing to the kid.


KELLY: That was a scene from the smash movie, American Sniper. And tonight, there was a dramatic turn in the legal fight between former wrestler, turned Governor Jesse Ventura and Chris Kyle's widow, Tara Kyle. Here's Trace Gallagher, reports from our west coast newsroom, Trace?

GALLAGHER: Megyn, the Eight Circuit Court of Appeals is now considering a new trial because during closing arguments of the original trial, a lawyer for former Governor Jesse Ventura told the jury that if they awarded Ventura $1.8 million, it wouldn't come out of Chris Kyle's estate, the insurance company for HarperCollins, the publisher of American Sniper, would be on the hook for the money. Today, a judge on the panel agreed the comment was quote, "Over the line" and he pressed Ventura's attorney to come up with some precedent that would have allowed those statements. The attorney couldn't think of anything up the top of his head, so the judge gave him more time. You'll recall in his book, American Sniper, Chris Kyle claims he punched out a man later identified as Jesse Ventura because he made offensive remarks about the Navy SEALs. Before he died, Chris Kyle gave sworn testimony the statement was true. But Ventura, who was also a Navy SEAL says, he never made the comment and there was no altercation. After court today, Ventura said the comments ruined his reputation, especially among Navy SEALs, watch.


JESSE VENTURA, SUED CHRIS KYLE'S ESTATE: I lost my television show and I could get no employment for two years. You tell me how it affect that media is all saying. I can't go to a reunion now and not sit back and who is going to stab me in the back next?


GALLAGHER: The attorney for Chris Kyle's estate also argued today. The entire judgment should be thrown out because it violated Chris Kyle's right to free speech. And because there was no proof of actual malice, meaning, no proof that Chris Kyle deliberately made a false and damaging statement. Kyle's widow Tara was not in court today, Ventura says if he loses on appeal, he'll move to Mexico, Megyn.

KELLY: Wow, OK. Thanks Trace. Our legal panel joins us how it more. Andell Brown is a civil rights attorney. Mark Eiglarsh is a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor. All right, so let's start with that Mark, whether this court, which the appeals court seems to be suggesting, you could -- you should not have suggested to that jury that the publisher is going to have to pay the bill as opposed to the estate of Chris Kyle.

MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Yeah, I think that might come back on appeal. There is -- I can't find any example where court has allowed a plaintiff's attorney to argue exactly what his attorney argued. There's also no case that I found where that has been allowed. Why, Megyn, because it would, and potentially did taint the jury.

KELLY: Right, because they're thinking that I'm not going to have to kick (ph) -- to hit Chris Kyle's widow with this verdict. Everyone can leave happy. Just some rich cat corporation is going to have to pay for it in Dell. And Jesse Ventura gets what is he wants and the widow doesn't have to worry about it.

ANDELL BROWN, CIVIL RIGHTS ATTORNEY: I think the other side of that coin, Megyn, is the fact that we're -- they have to prove actual malice that he knowingly made intentionally false statements. The reason why that may be important is because the book company may say, "Hey, make these statements, get this publicity. Don't worry about it. We'll pay for it." And that's part of the reason why I believe Jesse Ventura's lawyers brought up that fact.

KELLY: Because the thing is, there's another grounds for appeal which is, they didn't -- Kyle's estate is saying that they never proved that if he said something wrong, he did it with malice -- the intention to lie and hurt Jesse Ventura. And that's the standard, when you're going after -- when a public figure is suing, we have to prove a very, very high burden in order to get at somebody.

BROWN: That's correct.

KELLY: So that's going to be taken up. Now I want to shift gears with you because we've been showing this motorcycle -- accident? I don't -- you tell me. Watch. Watch will happen.



KELLY: All right now, Mark. Now the driver who gets out of the car says, you know this is the guy said -- the motorcycle behind him who was filming said, "You hit him. You hit him." And he said, "I don't care. I don't care."


KELLY: So that driver is going to be charged with vehicular assault.

EIGLARSH: Yeah, let's make something clear. And this incident disclosure, I am a criminal defense attorney. My job is to defend people accused of crimes.

KELLY: Go for it.

EIGLARSH: And I will tell you -- but I'm not going to do it. Justice for all, I'm turning this around. Don't call this an accident. This is a crime, Megyn. What he did was clearly intentional and candidly, when the judge gives him prison time, I'm mumble under my breath, I don't care.

KELLY: But Andell, he had a defense. He says, alternatively, that a wasp stung him and that a spider bit him.


KELLY: And I warned the viewers, originally, he said it was near the groin area. For some reason, we have a picture of the bite. I don't know what part we're looking at here, but Andell is back in a fly?

BROWN: Megyn, this is the tough part for the prosecution is that they have to prove what he intended. If, in fact, this was an accident, then their whole case goes out the window. If you were not.

EIGLARSH: But it's not.

ANDELL: On the phone with him, you can't say what happened. You don't know.

EIGLARSH: Oh, Andell.

BROWN: If there's no witness next to him and say.

EIGLARSH: You -- hold on.

BROWN: He did that intentionally.

EIGLARSH: Jurors are allowed to use their common sense, Andell. And apparently, you're not using it. There's no evidence that this guy swerved before that point, until right he got alongside of his car.

KELLY: He was irritated that the guy was driving on the side.

BROWN: There's no evidence that he saw that guy coming either.

EIGLARSH: He's guilty. Your client is going to prison.

BROWN: If something bit him, and he swerved to avoid him. We have an old, elderly man.

EIGLARSH: Something bit you, Andell.


KELLY: Is that a little under my (inaudible) and he didn't get out of the car saying, "I got stung. I got stung. I got stung."


KELLY: And he said like, "I don't care." I got to go.

BROWN: The first thing he said when he was approached by that angry biker was that, he doesn't care and this guy is doing something wrong.

EIGLARSH: He pulled against to your right (ph), Andell.

KELLY: He's doesn't care.

BROWN: That bike rider was not doing something.

KELLY: It's over between us.

BROWN: He would have never gotten bit.


KELLY: I've got to see you. I got to go. Good to see you.

Up next, Harry Reid taking serious heat tonight for comments he made about a plan to crackdown on so-called sanctuary cities. Up next, a mother whose son was killed by an illegal immigrant has a message for Harry Reid.



SEN. HARRY REID, R-NEV.: This (inaudible) legislation might as well be called the Donald Trump Act, like the disgusting and outrageous language championed by Donald Trump. This legislation paints all immigrants as criminals and rapists.


KELLY: That was Senator Harry Reid. Today, as Senate democrats managed to block a republican-backed measure that would have cracked down on so- called sanctuary cities. Mary Ann Mendoza is with me tonight. Her son, Mesa, Arizona Police Sergeant Brandon Mendoza was killed by an illegal immigrant last year. Mary Ann, thank you for being here. So Harry Reid has a real issue with legislation that would crackdown on sanctuary cities which allow illegal immigrants, including those who committed felonies and multiple crimes to walk around with impunity because he thinks it demonizes them, your thoughts?

MENDOZA: Well, here's what I'd like to say to Harry Reid. Number one, did you actually really read the bill? Number two, have you had a loved one killed by an illegal? Number three, this is targeting repeat criminals who are considered dangerous ICE and they wanted to deport these people out of our country. And the last thing I'd like to say to him is. If you're for keeping these illegal criminals in our country, you need to retire, Harry Reid. That's what I think of him.

KELLY: As you know, it's not just Senator Reid and even the White House had threatened to veto this bill if it had gone through. And they say the reason is, among they list many, but they say it doesn't offer comprehensive reform and it would jeopardize the ability of state and local governments to receive federal money that's critical to public safety.

MENDOZA: Well, the thing is, you know, it's attorneys, it's Washington, it's a lot of these people who are so against these illegals being deported because they are actually a voter base for the democrats, but that -- it's allowing those people to bring lawsuits against our local law enforcement agencies, and that's why they're apprehensive of carrying through with this. Because if they do call ICE, then you have all these people filing lawsuits which makes it difficult for our law enforcement to uphold laws. And what I want to say to illegals is, if you don't like our laws, go home. If you can't live within the confines of our laws and be a law abiding illegal, to where you're not killing and hurting American people, then go home.

KELLY: Mary Ann.

MENDOZA: You don't need to be here.

KELLY: Thank you, thank you very much. We appreciate it.

MENDOZA: Thank you.

KELLY: All the best. We'll be right back.


KELLY: So what do you think? Do you think the driver who hit the guy on the motorcycle did it intentionally? It is one of those like -- it was? Let me know at and on Twitter @megynkelly. Let me know what you think. Thanks for watching. I'm Megyn Kelly, this is "The Kelly File."

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