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The Five

Clinton slams Benghazi committee ahead of Thursday's hearing

This is a rush transcript from "The Five,"  October 19, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Geraldo Rivera, Eric Bolling, and Jesse Waters. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, and this is The Five.

America has raised serious concerns about Hillary Clinton's honesty and judgment. All of that will come under close scrutiny this Thursday when she testifies before the House Select Committee on Benghazi. Clinton has been labeling the investigation as politically motivated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: I think it's pretty clear that whatever they might have thought they were doing, they ended up becoming a partisan arm of the Republican National Committee, with an overwhelming focus on trying to, as they admitted, drive down my poll numbers. I will do my best to answer their questions, but I don't really know what their objective is right now.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: The Chairman of the panel strongly disagreed with her claim, but Trey Gowdy also says he has called on some of his fellow Republicans to keep quiet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TREY GOWDY, SOUTH CAROLINA REPRESENTATIVE: I guess if there is a presidential campaign going on, I have told my own Republican colleagues and friends, shut up talking about things that you don't know anything about. And unless you're on the committee, you have no idea what we've done, why we've done it, and what new facts we have found. The seven members of my committee are much more focused on the four dead Americans than we are anyone's presidential aspirations.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: All right. We are here on a Monday. We're going to get this week started off right. So, Eric, the hearings are meant to investigate and form. It really is the people's court. So there's not necessarily a way to win or lose a hearing. You can have a good hearing or a bad hearing. But if that's the way both sides are going to look at, here's my take on Hillary. There is going to be a hearing, you're going to have to show up, so you might as well go there and do the best job you can to convince people that there is nothing you did wrong. Am I right?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: One hundred percent right. And Kevin McCarthy, House majority leader, breathed new life into that theory. And that's why she did that. She kind of laughs it off now. She called it political theater, because McCarthy did that. He said look at her poll numbers since we have been questioning her about Benghazi. But let's not forget, Benghazi begat e-mail service. Email service begat Hillary's response to e-mail servers. And e-mail servers also begat the fact that top secret classifications were sent through her email server. And another one, a Libyan source was outed (ph) by name through an e-mail, now named on an e-mail. If those aren't classified enough, clearly she is lying about it. So she can laugh it off all she wants. Kevin McCarthy and the other bozo from New York, Hannah, who decided to jump in the Kevin McCarthy bandwagon, they can do that all they want. I don't blame Trey Gowdy for being really mad, like really mad. He is showing a lot of restraint because he spent the better part of two years now investigating this stuff, finding a lot of things out, and they're kind of giving Hillary get out of Benghazi jail for free card that she doesn't deserve.

PERINO: And Kimberly, you're familiar with this hearing. You're a former prosecutor, he is a former prosecutor.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah.

PERINO: And the way he looks at it is I would imagine like he is going into a courtroom, but he can't control necessarily, but he can try his best, to control the Republicans, and certainly not the Democrats on the committee.

GUILFOYLE: No, and I mean -- and I know him personally, he's a man of great integrity. He is very focused on the objective here, which is to find the truth. And what he is trying to say is listen, despite what these other people have said or Kevin McCarthy has said, I am focused on this. This is a truth fact-finding mission and we would like to have all the information available to us, because we don't want there to be things that are hidden from the American people. Now, Hillary Clinton can go ahead and say that this is like a partisan witch-hunt and this is a partisan arm of the RNC. Let's see what the facts show.

Go and answer the questions. Be clear, be transparent like claim to be. And then, we will decide.

PERINO: That's what I was thinking, Geraldo. If there's going to be hearing, so instead of trying to make herself look like a victim, just go. You were Secretary of State, answer the questions as he said. When she agreed to do the testimony, she said she will be as forthcoming as possible. So why change that now if there isn't a hearing, anyway?

GERALDO RIVERA, CO-HOST: Well, I think the fact that this is the eighth hearing, this is the political process, a partisan process, as much as Eric would like to forget the prominent Republicans who have agreed that this is a partisan hearing whose basic purpose is to denigrate and to diminish Secretary Clinton.

BOLLING: Not true.

RIVERA: We also have a situation here.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: Excuse me, you have Trey Gowdy there talking about the seven members of his committee. I got news for you. There's 12 members of that committee, 5 of them are Democrats. The fact he only refers to his 7 Republicans as his committee is an indication.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: It's an indication of where we're going with this thing.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: When the Democrats are in-charge, there are 7 Democrats and 5 Republicans on the committee. This is just.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: Your committee, at least in theory. Wouldn't the American voter like to think that a Congressional inquiry is a bipartisan search for truth? That is absolutely -- who believes that now, that this is an objective.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Geraldo, you are using it as a truth of the matter, that just because Kevin McCarthy.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: If they properly opine on this, you assume that everything is nefarious and there is no actual goodwill, fact-finding, justice-seeking with respect to this committee's inquiry, and I beg to differ.

PERINO: Jesse in here. Take it away, son.

JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Well, sure.

(LAUGHTER)

WATTERS: I think in Libya, Obama led from behind. And then Hillary left her Ambassador behind because that is what it is about.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: And then, they blamed it on a YouTube video. So the committee is not driving her numbers down, she's driving her own numbers down. She was the one, like Eric said, to set up a secret server. She was the one to destroy e-mails, and then, she was the one to go out and lie about it. It's like Nixon coming out and blaming the Democrats on the Watergate Committee. She tells lies every single day to the press, and they're out there giving her a round of applause. Then Ben Carson tells the truth and they say F-U, Ben Carson.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: The one lie I cannot abide is the pathetic statement that Secretary Clinton left Ambassador Stevens and the other three heroes behind to die. That is a slander on the United States government and on the United States military.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Why couldn't they save their guys, Geraldo?

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: Kimberly makes an eloquent presentation for Trey Gowdy, and an objective search for the truth. And then you say we left people behind to die.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: They didn't paint her the proper military posture in the Middle East on the anniversary of 9/11. That's not good, Geraldo. If you think that's good, that's pathetic.

RIVERA: You're changing the subject.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Two separate things. Stevens did ask for up to 13 security guards. He was denied it. He died subsequent to that.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: How much time passed between the request for security and his death? I make it sound as if he is an extremist.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: We can rehash all these all you want.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: What's important is that we get our hands on the e-mails, because we find out about these things like Ambassador Stevens looking for additional security, denied or.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: . The name of the Libyan contact source.

RIVERA: I'll deal with that.

BOLLING: No. You should deal with that.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Stop, stop. Dana, we talked about this quite a bit. By outing the name of that source, what Hillary Clinton has done is gross negligence which she could be held accountable for. Am I right?

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: I think you're wrong.

PERINO: Well, here's the thing. We're having this discussion because people want some answers, and the purpose of the committee and the hearing is to get some answers. So I think we can afford a Thursday. Let's move on to another topic, which is this week there was an AP-exclusive story about the state of cyber security at the State Department during Hillary Clinton's watch, which was apparently abysmal. That's not from the right wing. This is from the White House government's own report of looking at all the agencies, which they should do. But then, again, today, Kimberly, you see that a teenage hacker was able to get into the AOL account of the current CIA director. This may not be a problem in just one place but across the government.

GUILFOYLE: Well, there is potential it could be systemic, but this is one of the things that you hear this and you just kind of hang your head. I don't like to hang my head down. I like to hold it up. So this was not a good sign at all. When you think about this, the CIA is supposed to be the super-dogs of spy security, running the best show in the business. And when you see it's been compromised, albeit with a personal account, that shouldn't be happening. Let's be honest, 17 years of age.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: The things kids do nowadays.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Eric, I want to ask you something.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: I'm sorry.

PERINO: It's not just the government that's actually suffering, it's companies all across America, tens of millions of dollars are being spent by corporations trying to stay ahead of attacks. It's kind of a losing game. If the government could get its act together, maybe then, the rest of America would benefit.

BOLLING: And this is it's important to keep asking -- keep questioning Hillary Clinton on these e-mails. If they're able to hack the CIA director's e-mail account, who is to say they don't have the full contacts, the 80,000, not just the 55,000 that she turned over, but the full 80,000 e-mails that were written via her private server? Remember when President Obama got into office, he loved his Blackberry, and they said, no, you can't have a Blackberry, it's not secure enough. He said, no, I want my Blackberry. So they made it so only 12 people that had access in and out of his Blackberry. And they had the encryption going on. He knew how dangerous it was to do what Hillary Clinton ended up doing for four years. He knew that the risks were so immense that he would take that out of his system and just use his special Blackberry. She didn't. She used a Blackberry and maybe an iPhone or iPad, that anyone can hack into including a 17-year-old.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Bolling just complimented President Obama. You heard it here.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: My point, I want to leave it. I don't want to obnoxiously beat this dead horse. But the problem with focusing on whether we're making the patently false statement that the United States of America could have done something to save those people and did not.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: No, no. I'm not saying there was a stand-down order. I'm saying they weren't positioned to rescue him on the anniversary of 9/11 in the Middle East. That's what I'm saying.

RIVERA: What I am saying is there's plenty to investigate prior to the tragedy of the 9/11 and the way that they have spun the story after the tragedy of 9/11. But first, it seems to me that many people have to get over the fact that we sold a bill of goods to the American people, and worst of all, to the families of those four who died that something could have been done to save them that was not done. And that is so false.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Even worse is that they lied and actually said they blamed the video. And that's the question I want to see answered. I would just love to know who pushed the video. That's the question that actually gets, I think, to the very heart of all of this.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Greg would be proud of you. Yeah. Greg would be proud of me. That was in honor of Greg, although I did make the t-shirts who pushed the video. All right, we are going to keep going.

Next, the runner-up in a Democratic race, a spot-on impersonation of Bernie Sanders on Saturday Night Live. Plus, an endorsement from a well-known TV host. That's just ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Hillary Clinton may be her party's frontrunner, but the cultural icon of the Democratic race is Bernie Sanders perfectly impersonated by comedy icon Larry David this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY DAVID AS BERNIE SANDERS: Not a fan of the banks, they trample on the middle class, they consult Washington, and why do they chain all those pens to the desk? Who is trying to steal a pen from a bank? It makes no sense.

I don't have a Super PAC. I don't even have a backpack. I carry my stuff around loose in my arms like a professor, you know, between classes. I own one pair of underwear, that's it. Some of these billionaires, they got three, four pairs.

Who do you want as president, one of these Washington insiders or a guy who has one pair of clean underwear that he dries on a radiator?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: That was perfect. Another comedian feeling the burn, Bill Maher, he endorsed Sanders on his show and tried to quote undemonize socialism alongside Bernie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL MAHER: I want to help your campaign. I want to see you get the nomination.

I don't think most Americans realize they're already socialists.

BERNIE SANDERS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: In certain respects.

MAHER: Even the Republicans are not for income and equality.

Socialism is the programs they've already like. They like Social Security. That's socialism.

SANDERS: We have to make the movement, if you like, to correlate what we're talking about. Because on every one of the major issues I am talking about, the American people agree.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: On what planet are we living on? Wasn't socialism an insult? Was it bad?

PERINO: I can't follow. But when he says on every major issue, I'm taking about the American people agree?

GUILFOYLE: No. Erroneous.

PERINO: I'm a little bit lost for words. I do think Larry David was hilarious. And that would be totally worthwhile to have Bernie Sanders as president.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Larry David, perfect. Here's the point. Disability insurance, unemployment insurance, Social Security, you know, there are a million -- Medicaid, Medicare, all of those -- that's all socialism. We are a mix of socialism and capitalism. What Bernie Sanders scares us is a constant attack on the people who are generating the money that makes socialism able to be paid for.

BOLLING: Socialism is liberalism on steroids, KG.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

BOLLING: If they can come up with all the programs they want and it sounds good to people who want stuff.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: The only problem is the pay for it part of it.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, they're missing a daddy to pay the bills, that's the problem. I mean, you can't just keep handing out all this free stuff. This is one of the big problems with government right now is bloated bureaucracy entitlement, it has ran amok. And this guy, he likes the idea, the sound of it. He loves all the socialist and communist regimes out there. But no, the American people are not agreeing with him.

BOLLING: Are you shocked there is this much ground swell organic movement for Bernie Sanders?

WATTERS: I think it shows just how kooky (ph) the Democratic Party is. And to poke holes in Geraldo's thesis about how we are such a socialist country, gallop to the poll. Americans would rather have a gay guy, a Muslim, or an atheist president over a socialist. So I don't think we're ready.

GUILFOYLE: How happy that makes him, right?

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: The other thing is, if you look at Bernie Sanders' policy, OK, he didn't think Obama's trillion-dollar stimulus was enough. He is proposing another trillion-dollar stimulus. He wants to raise taxes to 90 percent on the wealthy. Obama already tried that and the middle class is getting (inaudible). He thinks Obamacare is too conservative.

GUILFOYLE: I know.

WATTERS: He wants to empty Gitmo.

BOLLING: Right.

WATTERS: This guy is totally ridiculous.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: Socialism is what you call it when someone else is getting the benefit and you are not. When you're getting the benefit, it's great American patriotism. I earned it. I deserve the Social Security.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: . which in your definition, would be socialism.

RIVERA: It's the government taking care of you.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Socialism only works until rich people don't exist anymore, then you can't pay for stuff.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: He wants like socialism on Viagra. That's what he wants. He doesn't even think it's good the way it is, he wants to like pump it up.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: That was very hard to follow, KG. But I think one of the reasons he might say the American people agrees is that there is confusion. So Governor Mike Huckabee who is one of the Republican presidential candidates, he actually campaigned on increasing Social Security payments - - current payments but without talking about reform. People who support him love that. What Hillary Clinton mentioned the other night on the debate that she wanted to see socialism sustained into the future. That means reform. And that was a (inaudible) to the left to attack her because they think there's something that is going to be taken from Social Security. So this issue is a huge looming problem with Social Security. And there's not many people taking it seriously.

BOLLING: And Sanders says he's preparing to deliver a major speech soon to explain democratic socialism to Americans. That's should be exciting. Exercise some caution though about buying into Bernie's beliefs. Remember, this is the guy impressed by the Sandinistas and a communist dictator, Fidel Castro.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SANDERS: I was impressed by their intelligence and by the sincerity. These are not political hacks. You know, you don't fight and lose your family, and get tortured and then go to jail for years to be a hacker.

Sandinista government in my view has more support among the Nicaraguan people, substantially more support than Ronald Reagan has among the American people. Everyone was totally convinced that Castro was the worst guy in the world. All the Cuban people are going to rise up in rebellion against Fidel Castro. They forgot that he educated the kids, gave them healthcare, totally transformed the society.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Now, Geraldo, Nicaragua and Sandinistas, this is one of Bernie Sanders' heroes.

RIVERA: I don't like them. I covered the civil war in Nicaragua. I was there when they killed our colleague. It's a repressive regime. I will say this about Bernie Sanders. I'm going to squeeze it in quickly. His idea is an idea I've had for many years. How do you Social Security? How do you pay for it into the future? You take the payroll tax, which right now is capped at $118,000 a year and you let it go. Whatever money you make, you pay payroll tax on it. You make a trillion dollars, you pay payroll tax. You get the benefits. But why give rich people a break?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: God forbid, you get back you earn your money, you save your money, you keep your money.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: I believe in individual, an entrepreneur, and free market.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: I don't understand why we have to act like this country is so crippled. And everybody has to take a knee and get a handout. Come on, grow up.

WATTERS: He didn't just praise those guys. He praised the maternity leave policy in China. China has a one-child policy. They throw girl babies in the river.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: They're trying to captivate babies. You're right.

PERINO: There's also an amazing unwillingness by Bernie Sanders to ignore human rights violations especially political prisoners to express their individual thoughts. That to me is what is disgusting about the Castro brothers, Sandinistas, the whole lot of them.

BOLLING: Can we move on from communist dictators?

WATTERS: You're asking me?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: There is something wrong with the segment prompter.

WATTERS: There we go. Coming up, Donald Trump and Jeb Bush spent the weekend going at it again. This time, over 9/11 with their new feud. That's coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: On Friday, Donald Trump places partial blame on President Bush for 9/11 because it happened on his watch. Well, 43's brother, Jeb, hit right back on Twitter and then, again yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: My brother responded to a crisis and he did it as you would hope a president would do. He united the country, he organized our country, and he kept us safe. And there is no denying that. The great majority of Americans believe that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you feel comfortable with Donald Trump's hand on the nation's nuclear codes?

BUSH: I have great doubts, to be honest with you, and it's only because of things he says. It looks as though he's not taking the responsibility of the possibility of being President of the United States really seriously. For him, it looks as though he's an actor playing the role of a candidate for president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Trump also suggests the attack might not have happened if he had been president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Jeb said we were safe with my brother. We were safe. Well, the World Trade Center just fell down. Now, am I trying to blame him? I'm not blaming anybody, but the World Trade Center came down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What would you have done?

TRUMP: I would have been different, I must tell you. I am extremely, extremely tough on illegal immigration. I am extremely tough on people coming into this country. I bet if I were running things, I doubt those families -- I doubt that those people would have been in the country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Interesting. That's a very strong assertion. Your mouth is open.

RIVERA: I don't believe that Donald, I love him, but he's not correct there. All 19 hijackers were in the country legally when they got here. Of the 19, all of them, by the way, Sunni Muslim extremists, 15 from Saudi Arabia. Of the 19 who were here, 3 overstayed their legal visas. So 16 of the 19 were still legal on 9/11. I don't know how even an extremely tough immigration policy would have kept out people; 16 of the 19 were here legally on the day they committed this atrocious mass murder.

GUILFOYLE: Bolling.

BOLLING: So I'm going to hang this comment on Breitbart. They had a piece out today, saying that Jeb Bush wrote, in his book in 2013, that some of the reason -- or part of the reason for the 9/11 attackers being here in the first place was an immigration issue. I don't know. I don't know if it's true or not. Let's hang it on Breitbart.

However, Donald Trump is being provocative. Donald Trump is the best show on earth. Donald Trump knows how to get the audience, knows -- knows how to get people talking about him, and what he did was he got Jeb Bush to bite on something. In my opinion, if Jeb had just said, "That's crazy talk" and moved on, we wouldn't be doing this right now.

And the aftermath of all of this benefits Donald Trump. It hasn't benefited Jeb Bush. I know he's trying to raise money on it. He's very much trying to raise money on it, but it doesn't make sense for him to get in the mud like this when these comments are made. That's not the way you're going to beat Donald Trump or move up the ladder or at least get more eyeballs.

The way I would do it if I were him would be with more policy, with more smart policy rather than playing that game. You don't beat Donald Trump at his game.

GUILFOYLE: But maybe he also feels a sense of familial loyalty and an obligation to actually state what he believes the record should be and defend.

I've never had a problem with somebody defending their family by saying, "OK, listen, I believe my brother kept us safe." That's what he should say. He'd probably be criticized if he didn't stick up for him, because it would be kind of awkward...

WATTERS: Yes, I mean, I don't think...

GUILFOYLE: ... on this issue.

WATTERS: I don't think Donald Trump is a 9/11 truther. I think what he's saying is that 9/11 happened on Bush's watch, which is technically accurate, and history is going to magnify that.

But everybody knows that Bush kept America safe after 9/11, and he put the tools in place to defeat the terrorists. And if you want to play the blame game, you can point a finger at Bill Clinton. He was the one who passed up a free shot at bin Laden in the late '90s in Africa and passed -- and passed.

So you know, but here's what -- and Eric's right, though. Trump has now turned this around and has now come out on top for two reasons: one, immigration and Iraq. And he puts Jeb on the defensive because he ties Jeb to his brother, and he brings up Iraq. What did Bush do after 9/11? He goes into Iraq. Can Jeb answer the going into Iraq question? He's had some problems with it.

And then, too, he flips the script and makes it about immigration, his strength and Jeb's weakness. So I don't know how he does it. He came out on top, and he's good at this. But you know, I don't think this is great for the Republican Party. This doesn't make the Republican Party look good. I think it makes Trump look good, though.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Dana.

PERINO: Well, I think it was a dismal weekend when you have liberal conspiracy theories being introduced by the Republican frontrunner. OK. It is soft trutherism.

WATTERS: Soft trutherism.

PERINO: It is what it is. It's like a soft racism. It's soft bigotry.

You put it out there for a reason, because you want -- I guess you want to be provocative. Even if none of the facts add up, as Geraldo pointed out, on the immigration points.

Now, the other thing is that Ben Carson made some more -- kind of loopy comments about he would have, in eight months, gotten America off of foreign sources of oil and therefore, then the hijackers would not have continued, because then we wouldn't need Saudi Arabia anymore.

But actually, bin Laden and the Saudis were at war.

So all of this, I think, is unfortunate. And look, my loyalty to President Bush is not in question. But here's what I'm going to ask about these two Republican frontrunners.

At some point when you're so far ahead and you're winning by so much and you are so great, don't you think that you want to start, then, consolidating your wins and not alienating all of the people that clapped for George W. Bush when Jeb said that at the debate? It was the most applause at the entire debate, was for a Republican who wasn't even there.

So at some point, don't you want to then try to say, "OK, I've got all of my people locked up. I need to try to gain more so that I could actually win not just the nomination but a general election"?

And you might think he's on top, but maybe of the ratings. I don't -- think -- you know the numbers where he's unpopular with -- like most people would say -- most number of people would say they wouldn't vote for him? I think that actually goes up. I don't see why he doesn't take an opportunity to give a pass. Don't go against the person who just got the most applause. Why don't you try to convince me that I should want you as my president? Right now I don't see it.

WATTERS: I do see -- I see what you're saying. You have the Democrats on the debate stage, and they're shaking each other's hands, they're sweeping each other's scandals under the rug. And then you have the Republicans. They're throwing 9/11 bombs out there. They're making fun of people's faces.

PERINO: Going against President -- even the left doesn't do what Donald Trump. Only the farthest right lunatics had the word truthers. And this is now the Republican Party? And you had formerly lunatics talking about something. You have sane people actually having to spend time talking about this?

RIVERA: There are legitimate questions about 9/11 and preparedness, in terms of the agencies not talking to each other, the NSA, the CIA. There was a more fact-based way to attack George W. Bush, if that's the way he wanted to get to Jeb Bush. I think Donald went with...

PERINO: Actually, even that wouldn't hold up, because in almost every instance, you have independent -- like for example, the 9/11 Commission report. Great book. I suggest that everybody that wants to be president should read it.

RIVERA: Great idea.

PERINO: Because the actions that were taken afterwards to try to protect - - and I got in trouble -- several years ago on "Hannity," I said something like "The president kept us safe." The left has never let me up on that, because I didn't say, "after 9/11." Obviously, that's what -- 9/11.

BOLLING: You said that here one of the first weeks we were on this show...

PERINO: They go crazy.

BOLLING: ... in 2011. We mentioned that. We had -- George Bush kept us safe. We said it like that. I agreed with you, and we got destroyed.

PERINO: Forever. By the lunatic left. By the truthers.

BOLLING: And truthers who said, "No, we weren't safe until after 9/11." That's a definite figure.

GUILFOYLE: That's it.

Ahead, will he or won't he? The Biden announcement buzz is growing louder by the minute. New information on the veep's 2016 intentions. That's next. Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RIVERA: Waiting for Joe B. Aside from who's actually going to win the White House, the question of whether Vice President Biden is running is the biggest mystery of the 2016 race so far.

While I still do not see him doing it, several reporters including our own Ed Henry citing sources close to the vice president say he is getting in it to win it and soon, maybe even before Hillary testifies at the Benghazi committee hearing on Thursday. Whatever a day that's going to be.

If Joe gets in, what does it mean for Secretary Clinton? For that matter, what does this mean for the Republican contenders? And does Biden even have a chance this late in the game? Obama's former top political strategist has his doubts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID AXELROD, FORMER TOP POLITICAL STRATEGIST FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA: He's late in terms of raising money. It's difficult to put organization together. He's got real challenges ahead if he gets into the race. He's talented. He's got a lot to offer, but it's a hard road forward if he decides to go. I also think, particularly within the Democratic community, there's a growing impatience with -- with this period of reflection.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIVERA: Are you impatient, Kimberly? As much as you may admire him -- I won't put words in your mouth -- hasn't he dallied long enough?

GUILFOYLE: Well, look, I would say I am more excited than I am impatient.

RIVERA: Could you explain this...

GUILFOYLE: Because I think that he should get in.

RIVERA: ... thrill?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, a thrill up my leg when I hear about him running. I think it would be a real race. He has every right to run. I don't like the idea of him being bullied not to run. If he wants to run, he's more than entitled and qualified. Run for president of the United States; do what's in your heart. He certainly has served his country well.

I'm encouraging, you know, fresh and honest debate. Let him go and, you know, take on Hillary Clinton. I think it would be fantastic.

RIVERA: But I mean, come on, Eric. I mean, if -- he's been thinking about running for president since 1987, at least, or 1988. So he's -- it's not like it just suddenly occurred to him: "Hey, should I run for president or not?" I mean, the guy has had plenty of time to mull over. If he can't -- I heard a Jackie Mason bit. If he can't decide on whether to run with president, what's he going to do when it comes time to deal with Putin?

BOLLING: So I think he probably would have jumped in by now if the Kevin McCarthy thing didn't happen, and that led to...

PERINO: The debate.

BOLLING: A good debate performance gave Hillary Clinton quite a bit of wind in her sails.

But when Bernie Sanders turned and let Hillary Clinton off the hook on Benghazi and e-mails and the whole scandalpalooza going on, I think Biden must have said, you know, "This is not -- this is not the way it was supposed to be right here, right now." So maybe he's rethinking and see if he does have the money to go forward and have the will.

GUILFOYLE: And she hasn't exploded (ph) in the polls, by the way.

BOLLING: It's over now. You guys realize it's a done deal. It doesn't matter if he gets in or not, given what's going on over the last couple of weeks. She's the nominee. It doesn't matter if he gets in or not. It's just how much money he -- Biden makes Hillary spend becoming the nominee.

RIVERA: Dana, you've got a million times better sources than I do in D.C., but I did get a call from one guy who said President Obama was about to throw Hillary under the bus. Did you hear that?

PERINO: I have not heard that, but my Democratic sources are a little light at the moment.

I think there's a couple things happening. I think it's a bigger decision to run for president than just how somebody might have done at the debate or at the Benghazi hearings. Do you want to be president of the United States? Do you have a bigger vision and an idea to run for the country? At least you should, and you shouldn't want to just do it for vanity.

The other thing is, Biden might be able to do something that would be very attractive to the media, which is to buck conventional wisdom. This entire election has been about conventional wisdom seekers being wrong. Right? So nobody can tell what's going on with the election.

So if Biden gets in, and all of a sudden, he starts to do well, think of that story they could write. Expected not to do well, blah, blah, blah. And then they can move on.

So I think that he might be able to do it. But in your opening, I had another thought. You said that he might do this before Hillary Clinton testifies on Thursday. This could all be a ruse to try to avoid getting attention, for the media to have a big shiny object to cover instead of the Benghazi hearing. I mean, that would be a huge conspiracy.

RIVERA: I think -- I think...

GUILFOYLE: He would sacrifice himself for her?

RIVERA: I think it's less than that. I think that this is a guy deciding whether he wants to be a 73-year-old has been or someone who's still a media darling for however long it is.

GUILFOYLE: That's not nice, Geraldo.

WATTERS: I think the only people that want to see Biden run are the media, because they're going to get some drama. If he gets handsy at the debate with Hillary, start kind of groping her shoulders, and they get excited about the war on women situation.

He's going to run against his boss? What is he going to say, things are great in America? The middle class is doing great? That's going to be pretty...

GUILFOYLE: No, he's going to run as a champion of the middle class. He will be able to raise money. He does better at head-to-head competitions against the main GOP candidates.

WATTERS: What's he going to say, "I'm not as old as..."

GUILFOYLE: And Hillary didn't have a big swell in her numbers.

WATTERS: "I'm just as old as Sanders and as white as Hillary."

RIVERA: I said -- just going back, I want to correct a factual mistake I made earlier in the program.

WATTERS: Which one?

RIVERA: It was the Sandinistas killed the ABC News correspondent. It wasn't the Sandinistas. It was the Somoza government that killed Bill Stewart, our colleague at ABC News. The Sandinistas were on the other side of the fight. I just want to correct myself, because I am impeccably factually constant.

BOLLING: Challenged.

RIVERA: Should A-Rod stick to baseball. We'll show you. I'm sorry. Did I interrupt you?

PERINO: No.

GUILFOYLE: We're all razzing you.

RIVERA: I feel -- I feel the buzz. Should A-Rod -- A-Rod now he's working on which one -- FOX Sports, right? FOX Sports. He threw a football on live TV. You'll see that. Very funny. I just saw it for the first time.

Plus, it's being called one of the dumbest plays ever In NFL history. You be the judge of it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: Last night, the Colts lost to the Patriots, and they deserved to. The team attempted, arguably, the dumbest play of all time late in the third quarter. Here's what happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Now he's got it. On a fourth down and 3, you got Griff Whalen ready to take the snap. This snap to -- actually, Colt Anderson is behind him -- and what in the world? Flag is down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: Yes, you saw that right. Down just six, Indianapolis attempted a ridiculous fake punt that ended up in a loss of downs. New England scored on the ensuing possession and eventually won the game.

So let's just go quickly around the horn here. That might have been the dumbest thing I've seen since the butt fumble. Do you remember the butt fumble with the Jets?

BOLLING: I do remember the butt fumble.

WATTERS: What happened there?

BOLLING: I also remember Leon Lett fumbling the ball, going into the end zone.

WATTERS: That's true. What happened here was an attempt to be cute. That's a college play. I've seen that play a hundred times.

WATTERS: You've seen that formation?

BOLLING: Yes, yes.

GUILFOYLE: How many times have you seen it work?

BOLLING: That's the point.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: What's with the space between the other nine guys and those two guys?

BOLLING: Yes, exactly. Whatever. But the point is you're going up against the Patriots, one of the best teams in the last ten years. They're not going to get beat by a college -- bad college formation play.

WATTERS: Right. Belichick probably schemed off that, you know?

BOLLING: Right. He did that -- Whalen didn't call that. I'm sure that the coordinator -- some coordinator, O&D coordinator, said, "Let's try this. We practiced this twice."

WATTERS: Well, the coach goes, "Why did you snap it? Why did you snap it?" He should never have snapped that ball. Obviously...

RIVERA: What was he going to do it once he got it in that formation? See, he's all by himself. There's no...

WATTERS: You call a time-out and then -- and then you go back and get a normal formation.

RIVERA: I just -- I don't understand how...

GUILFOYLE: If you don't gain the yardage, you burn it down. What is the point of that?

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: I know Dana had a lot of analysis about that, but we're going to move on...

GUILFOYLE: She really did.

WATTERS: ... from the worst play to the worst throw of a football by none other than baseball slugger A-Rod.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALEX RODRIGUEZ, FOX SPORTS: It's been over 20 years. I'll give it a shot.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've got Jake Lays (ph) over on the other side. Can you hit him?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, you've got strength in your arm.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Every once in a while, when there's a big sporting event, Eric will throw a ball with our stage manager. And we used to joke if we had done that, I don't think anyone would have laughed. I mean, they would have laughed, and then we would have been in a lot of trouble. Our set would look different.

GUILFOYLE: What's left.

WATTERS: That guy had a cannon right there.

RIVERA: That was a pretty good throw.

WATTERS: A little mustard on that.

BOLLING: Oh, please. It's 10 feet across...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, Bolling, don't be a hater!

RIVERA: What do you think about A-Rod as a color commentator? It's not like he's had an uncheckered career.

BOLLING: My wife thinks he's amazingly beautiful. So it doesn't really matter.

WATTERS: I mean, it's a guy with...

PERINO: Really?

WATTERS: If the guy was taller, maybe he could have caught that. I mean, come on. You've got to reach for that. That guy was a little midget.

BOLLING: I once had Matt Stafford throw a ball from one end to the other of the plaza at "FOX & Friends." And I said, "Do you think you can hit that" -- there was a sign in the window. And as he did. And as it goes flying through the air, I'm thinking, "He's going to take out that window. It's one of the boss's windows. And I'm going to end up having to pay for this, like $10,000."

RIVERA: Did he?

BOLLING: He hit the window; it didn't break.

GUILFOYLE: I know who can throw a football better than that, Sean Hannity.

RIVERA: Sean Hannity. Hannity can throw.

WATTERS: All right. "One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Time now for "One More Thing." Eric, kick us off.

BOLLING: OK, so I saw this this morning. Apparently, this is from Friday's Jake Tapper show. He was interviewing Hillary Clinton. He asked her about the e-mail scandal. The FBI -- understand this. The FBI is really ticked off at President Obama and Hillary Clinton for undermining, trying to make fun of their investigation into the e-mails. So watch how she responds to Tapper's question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR: I know Bernie Sanders said that, quote, "The American people are sick and tired of hearing about your damn e-mails." But there are a lot of people who are not...

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well... (LAUGHTER)

TAPPER: ... including -- including FBI officials looking into whether national security was compromised because of this server.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: I mean, really not funny. Can you imagine President Clinton and your FBI after that? I'll leave it right there.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. OK.

PERINO: Want to focus group that. All right, K.G.

GUILFOYLE: I don't know. I think it was terrible.

But this is amazing. I love the men and women that serve in blue, and this is such an adorable photo that the Arlington, Texas, Police Department posted of one of their police officers getting a kiss from his little ballerina baby girl. It's very priceless. And so they said they wanted to do this, because she wanted a picture of herself in uniform with her daddy in uniform.

So let's just remember, when you see the men and women out there serving, you know, they have families that they want to come home to, too. And they want to do a good job and protect you.

PERINO: Tutu. Get it?

GUILFOYLE: Nice, Dana.

PERINO: All right. Geraldo.

RIVERA: Friday was my adorable, loving mom's 96th birthday.

PERINO: Wow.

RIVERA: She had had some problems. She had fallen and broken some bones. People said she was finished. She came right back. Here she is with my sister Sharon. We took her out to dinner. She's so vivacious.

GUILFOYLE: Adorable.

RIVERA: She's wonderful. Here, we're having a -- she was sharing a little drink with the mustache mugs. It's Grandma Lil. She's got all kinds of grandchildren, great-grandchildren, and soon to be great-great- grandchildren.

PERINO: What's her secret to longevity?

RIVERA: Smoking and drinking.

PERINO: I always wonder that.

RIVERA: She's the mother of five, you know.

PERINO: Lots of love.

RIVERA: And she -- you know, she has pretty good habits.

GUILFOYLE: God bless her and happy birthday.

RIVERA: Just full of love and family. Family is really...

PERINO: All right. That's good. That's nice.

All right, Jesse.

WATTERS: All right. College football craziness over the weekend. Two top 15 teams squared off. We had Michigan versus Michigan State. Watch how this game ends.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa, he has trouble with the snap! And the ball is free! It's picked up by Michigan State's Jalen Watts-Jackson, and he scores on the last play of the game!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: The coach from Michigan decides to punt with five seconds left, fourth and three. The guy muffs the punt. They ended up scoring. It was such a crazy ending, a fan in the stadium had a heart attack. We hope he's OK.

PERINO: Really? Wait.

GUILFOYLE: Did the announcer have a heart attack, too? Who was he a fan for?

WATTERS: Michigan. Michigan.

RIVERA: A hundred and twelve thousand Michigan fans watched that ending of the game.

WATTERS: Brutal.

PERINO: All right. I want to point you into another book recommendation, because you know I love that. Over the summer I got a chance to read this, "Extreme Ownership." It is by Leif Babin and Jocko Willink, and it is a great book. It is about their lessons of the battle of Ramadi. They're Navy SEALS. It's a great read, I think, for young professionals, managers and also parents. So check that out.

All right. Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

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