This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," October 13, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, new fallout in the latest interview by President Obama where he accuses Fox News of trying to make him scary and raises new questions about people of faith.
Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. The president has made a lot of news in the last 24 hours, first in a big sit down with "60 Minutes" and now with a one-on-one talk with one of his favorite authors. It was a wide ranging conversation in which the president discussed American culture, democracy, religion and politics. Suggesting at one point that his initial success came because, quote, "conservative media had not yet weighed in."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: It's interesting because we're talking Iowa. People always I think were surprised about me connecting with folks in small town Iowa. And the reason I did was, first of all, I had the benefit that at the time that nobody expected me to win. And so I wasn't viewed through this prism of Fox News and conservative media and making me scary.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: The president also putting forward a question, whose main assumption was that people of faith are often the most suspicious of others. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: How do you reconcile the idea of safety being important to you and you carrying a lot of bad taking faith seriously with the fact that at least our democracy and our civic discourse it seems as if folks who take religion the most seriously sometimes are also those who are suspicious of those not like them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Hmm. Let's drill down on this one with two political messaging pros. Marc Thiessen is a Fox News contributor and former chief speechwriter for President George W. Bush. And Bill Burton, he's a former Obama White House deputy press secretary.
Good to see you both. So, I'll start with you Marc from here in D.C., it's great to see you. Good to see you, Bill. So, it's that, I guess Republicans, conservatives and then Fox News have made him scary. That's what he attributes his problems to.
MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. He doesn't need Fox News to make him scary. He is doing a really good job of it on his own. I mean, have you seen the Middle East in recent times, it's pretty scary. Calling ISIS the jayvee team while they take over the territory the size of Great Britain. That's pretty scary. Paving the way for a Russian-Iranian alliance to take it, to push it out of the Middle East. That's pretty scary. So Barack Obama is doing a pretty good job of scaring the American people with his policies. They don't have to scary him personally.
KELLY: What about that, Bill? I mean, he's got his policies that he will do well on or won't do well on. And now we have seven years, you know, to judge him on. What is it with, you know, it's something else, look at something else, it's not me. It's something else that you should look at to define any problems that have come my way?
BILL BURTON, FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: Well, Megyn, I don't think that that's what this conversation was about. It wasn't about what Barack Obama's problems are and where they were coming from, it was a conversation about Christianity and characters and books. And, you know, the one quote that did not get read on the air just now is, you know, the President isn't just talking about one group of Christians, he's talking about a bunch of different groups of Christians. He even makes fun of liberal Christians for being wishy-washy on religion just right before the part that you read. So, I think the President is giving a wide ranging interview on a lot of different things. And that's just one part of the conversation.
KELLY: Well, that is the other piece of it, Marc, which is the religious people. How do you square being a person of deep faith when we all know that it's people of deep faith who are the most suspicious of others?
THIESSEN: Yes, Barack Obama has this terrible habit of questioning the motives and morality of people who disagree with him. I mean, this is the exact same thing. He said he was reading this book in 2008. So, it's interesting that in 2008, it was when he said, quote, "That the people, their concerns get bitter, they cling to their guns, religion or antipathy towards people who aren't like them." I mean, this is a habit this president --
KELLY: That's the bitter clinger soundbites.
THIESSEN: Bitter clinger soundbites. But it's people who don't look like them. Conservatives aren't upset by Barack Obama because they don't look like him. They don't like people who look like him. They are upset with him because they think he's a terrible president. And they disagree with his policies, they don't think he's necessarily a bad person. They think that they disagree with the direction he's taking the country. He doesn't feel that way about conservatives, he thinks conservatives are bad people who don't like people who live different than they do. And he is basically accusing and calling them racist.
KELLY: What about that, Bill because there is about --
BURTON: Marc --
KELLY: Yes, go ahead.
BURTON: I was going to say to be clear the President didn't say anything about racism here, it was Marc who brought it up. Secondly, you know, I don't think that the President is just blaming his issues on other people. What the president is trying to do is have a conversation about different things. He's not questioning motives. He's talking about some perceptions. And so, I mean if you look at some of the people who are most identified with Christianity in public life. Just look at the presidential campaign, Ben Carson, here's a guys who says, a Muslim should not be president.
If you look at Franklin Graham, here's a guy who says, 9/11 is because of homosexuality. If you look across the spectrum, yes, there are a lot of people very associated with highly religious views who do often get perceived as questioning folks who were different from them. The president isn't saying that all religious people don't like people who look different than them, don't like people who aren't the same religion than them. But what the President is saying is that there is often a perception issue that's worth talking about.
KELLY: Go ahead, Marc.
THIESSEN: He said specifically, they cling to guns, religion, antipathy towards people who aren't like them. In this interview, he said they are suspicious of those who aren't like them. How else am I supposed to read that, Bill? And by the way, this is not the only example of it. In 2012, he said about conservatives said, if you are out of work, you can't find a job, you are on your own. You don't have health care you are on your own, if you are born in poverty, you are on your own. That's the republican view. It's not that we disagree about poverty and how to handle it, it's not that we disagree about how to improve the economy.
He believes that Republicans are don't care about people, that they're selfish, bad people who don't care about their fellow Americans. He is constantly questioning their motives. I don't think Barack Obama is a bad person. I think he's trying to do what is best for the country. I think he is terribly wrong about it. He thinks that I don't care about the poor, don't care about people who don't have jobs, people don't care about who have an education. And it is scary to have someone in the White House who feels that way about it.
KELLY: And he thinks he wants dirty air and dirty water. Just a good measure. Don't forget that.
THIESSEN: Yes. That's true.
KELLY: Bill, you understand the messaging, because conservative Republicans feel that he's constantly attacking them and poking them and blaming them and condemning them. And then they think he plays the victim saying, I don't know why they're after me. And try to make me seem so scary, because I am very benevolent and perfectly willing to talk to these air hating, water hating, poor child hating people.
BURTON: I want to get on the record and say that I do not think that Marc Thiessen hates air. I am sure throwing it out there right now.
But I will say.
THIESSEN: Bring it out, baby.
BURTON: I will say that Marc is quite specifically taking something out of context. The President did not say folks are more suspicious. He was saying that there is this perception that they aren't. You know I think for the President to say that they are different world views is not, you know, it's not ground breaking, a ground breaking thing to say. I went back and I watched one of the President's speeches after he lost the New Hampshire primary. I was on this panel. And I wanted to go and look back at some of the things he had said. And one of things that struck me was that in his speech he said, you know what, Democrats and Republicans, all the candidates in this race, we share the same goals, which is to make America stronger, to make our kids smarter, to make sure that people can get an education for all their kids. But it's just that we have different means of getting there. And that's what I think gets lost in these conversations. People said --
BURTON: Like all these things about perception, but it's worth knowing that that's where the President comes from, not you know, little snippets of these conversations that he's having.
KELLY: Marc is looking look like -- do I get a chance? No, you do not. All right. Great to see both tonight.
BURTON: Thanks, Megyn.
THIESSEN: Thanks, Megyn. Talk to you later.
KELLY: Well, we also have breaking news tonight on Dr. Ben Carson -- yes, talk to you later. Then his big new poll numbers. Wait until you see the latest Fox News poll. And some ugly media attacks that have just surfaced. Chris Stirewalt and Howie Kurtz are next on how the candidate is handling both, and what it means for the 2016 race.
Plus, meet the woman who sued her 12-year-old nephew for rambunctious behavior. Arthur and Mark are here on whether the case has merit and what happened when a jury weighed in today.
And then horrifying new details on how a passenger jet was shot down over Ukraine as investigators reveal what they think happened to 298 people inside and who they believe was responsible.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) The airplane broke up in the air.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Breaking tonight, new FOX polls on the GOP field show a big surge in national support for Dr. Ben Carson. He has gained another five points since last month and is now neck and neck with Donald Trump who is holding steady. But as Carson moves up, the mainstream media has ramped up the criticism finding controversy in what many feel are simple statements. The latest involved Carson's answer to a question about the Bible.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHARYL ATTKISSON, SUNDAY MORNING SHOW HOST, SINCLAIR: Do you think we're at the end of days?
DR. BEN CARSON, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You could guess that we are getting closer to that. You do have people who have a belief system that sees this apocalyptic phenomenon occurring and that they're a part of it and who would not hesitate to use nuclear weapons if they gain possession.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Well, Dr. Carson appears to be referring to Iran. The Islamic State and their violent version -- vision I should say for ridding the world of infidels. But a number of media outlets treated the doctor like some sort of crazy street corner preacher. Salon writing, quote, "Ben Carson's apocalyptic fantasies, we are getting closer to the end of days." Huffington Post, chides, "Ben Carson believes Earth is getting closer to the end of days, but he still wants to be president." CNN removes any context from its headline reporting, "Ben Carson: We're Closer to End of Days."
Joining me now, Fox News digital politics editor Chris Stirewalt and the host of "MediaBuzz" right here on Fox Howie Kurtz. So, he was trying to talk about Iran Stirewalt and the takeaway was, he thinks we're all going to die! We're all going to die!
CHRIS STIREWALT, FOX NEWS DIGITAL POLITICS EDITOR: We're all going to die. The end is now. I called Kurt Cameron (ph) because the rapture is upon us. It's all about to happen. And it is one in a series, an ongoing series of stories about Ben Carson is a cook (ph). Ben Carson is a nut. And you hear it. He doesn't talk like a politician. So he talks in -- he's talking around it. He is sort of meandering around. And he is not using soundbite language, so they're doing all these gotchas and then they're sort of getting themselves.
KELLY: Right. In their defense, Howie, he does make a lot of gaffes. He gives a lot of fodder to the media who want to slam him.
KURTZ: I understand the controversy of Ben Carson talking initially about that advocating a Muslim president. I understand the controversy about him saying what he would do, confirm with a mass shooter, people misinterpreted that to say, he was blaming the victims in Oregon. This I don't understand at all. Because it's a straight forward question about faith, we just saw his answer. What the media utterly failed to grasp, Megyn, is that the more they whack Carson, painting him as a strange figure, the more it helps him. It's almost Trump-like because they don't understand his appeal.
KELLY: Do you think there is any consideration of that? They're not supposed to be considering whether their questions help or hurt him.
KELLY: They're not supposed to be.
KURTZ: I think they don't understand Ben Carson, they don't understand his appeal. He does speak in the language of faith sometimes and they feel like he's going to be sinking any time soon and they're just -- there is an effort by some in the media to paint him with some kind of a religious whacko who thinks the Apocalypse is eminent.
KELLY: Is it that far removed from what we saw from President Obama in the a-block of the show, Chris? It was like, those who really mean the faith -- and there is an implication that like he's a little --
STIREWALT: And again, I also make a point that it was clear Ben Carson wasn't talking about the Southern Baptists. He wasn't talking about the united Methodists, he was clearly talking.
KELLY: Our friends in -- oh wait --
STIREWALT: Right. KELLY: The people who chant "Death to America."
STIREWALT: But if you don't understand, if you live your whole life in the -- if you had never been out of a stone's throw away from a good corned beef sandwich in your whole life, if you lived your whole life here, you have no idea what probably evangelical Christians think or believed.
KELLY: Absolutely right.
STIREWALT: You probably have no idea what people think about the end of the world, all of that stuff. And so, you just point and go, look at those weirdo cooks and Ben Carson is one of them.
KELLY: And follow up with, they're so intolerant.
KELLY: They're the most intolerant people.
STIREWALT: I hate how intolerant they are.
KELLY: Howie, how closely is this tied to the fact that Ben Carson is starting to kill it in the polls? I mean, the FOX News poll that just came out, look at this. He's at 2003. He's up five. Trump's at 24, down two. So they are neck and neck those two. And the next closest guy is Cruz who is up to, but he's at 10, 13 points behind Carson.
KURTZ: Yes. Ben Carson was in single digits. Most of it this wouldn't be happening. The media would focus their attention elsewhere. And of course, candidates that move up should get more scrutiny. But here's what's interesting, early on in this race Ben Carson said some dumb things, ObamaCare is equal to slavery, gay guys -- people to be gay when they go into prison.
KELLY: Prison makes you gay.
KURTZ: Yes. And he told me in an interview that he learned that to use that inflammatory language, people wouldn't hear his words and he would stop. Now he seems to have thrown this caution to the wind. His stop strategist was quote in saying, "Let Carson be Carson." I think he is embracing who he is. And some in the media don't like it. But clearly many republican voters do.
KELLY: The other thing we've seen, Chris is that Carson beats Hillary Clinton by the widest margin of any GOP running for president. He against Clinton in a Fox News matchup, 50 percent to 39. By the way, Hillary loses to every single republican, Carson, Trump, Bush, Fiorina, but loses the most to Carson.
STIREWALT: Yes. And she's a disaster right now. But the thing about Ben Carson, he is doing it exactly wrong, right? He is doing everything you're not supposed to do, he had no name identification, he had no organization, he started out with no dough, he followed none of the rules.
KURTZ: Very low key, doesn't speak in soundbites.
STIREWALT: Guess what happens. People reacts. They respond. They like him. It counts a lot to be liked and trusted. And what Republicans are saying is, we didn't know this guy before. The more he hear him, we like him, and they're going for it. And what's astonishing is, in the general electorate, his favorability ratings stay relatively high. People are not turning on him and it's not having that effect. How long this may last? I don't know. But right now he has defied gravity and defied every chattering head in the world who said he's going to do it.
KELLY: The Republicans say, the more you tell us that we're not supposed to like him, the more we do.
KELLY: Great to see you both.
KURTZ: Thanks, Megyn.
STIREWALT: You too.
KELLY: Well, a major milestone in the Freddie Gray case today out of Baltimore. And just ahead, we'll show you why all six officers charged in his death wound up in court together for the first time today. As Mark and Arthur weigh in on the big ruling that came down this afternoon.
Plus, CNN announcing it is taking a different approach to the democratic debate declaring the Democrats will be held to a different standard than the GOP.
Media Research Center President Brent Bozell joins us next on how exactly that's going to work and why.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN ANCHOR: I don't think this is a debate where you will going to have candidates attack each other.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Breaking tonight, CNN admitting that it is taking a different approach with the democratic presidential debate than it did with the Republicans. In the first matchup, moderator Jake Tapper used his line of questioning to pit the Republicans against each other. Here's a little sample of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Governor Christie, I want to ask you about something that Dr. Carson said the other day. Dr. Carson said, campaigning is easier for him, because he's not a politician, he can just tell the truth, therefore, while politicians, quote, "have their finger in the air to see and do what is politically expedient." Governor Christie, tell Dr. Carson, is that a fair description of you?
Senator Cruz, Governor Kasich says that anyone who is promising to rip up the Iran deal on day one as you have promised to do is, quote, "inexperienced," and quote, "playing to a crowd." Respond to Governor Kasich, please.
In an interview last week in Rolling Stone magazine, Donald Trump said the following about you, quote, "Look at that face, would anyone vote for that? Can you imagine that, the face of our next president?" Mr. Trump later said, he was talking about your persona not your appearance, please feel free to respond what you think about his persona.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Anderson Cooper who was hosting tonight's matchup said a few days ago, he did not plan on following Tapper's lead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COOPER: I don't think this is a debate where you will going to have candidates attack each other. We have not seen that on the campaign trail. I am always uncomfortable that notion of setting people up in order to kind of promote, you know, some sort of a faceoff. And then I think, look, these are all serious people. This is a serious debate. They want to talk about the issues. And I want to give them an opportunity to do that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Joining me now Brent Bozell, the president of the Media Research Center. Brent, good to see you. So where is the controversy? Anderson is going to do it differently than Jake did it. He's a different moderator. Isn't he doing what most viewers who watched that last debate wanted Tapper to do? Which is, don't just make it all about the dog fight?
BRENT BOZELL, PRESIDENT, MEDIA RESEARCH CENTER: Yes, I mean, I don't mind what Jake Tapper did. First, what did he do? There were 74 questions that were asked. Fifty five of them were designed to get Republicans to fight with each other. Only one was designed to get them to respond to Hillary Clinton.
KELLY: Is that right, just one?
BOZELL: I have no problem with that. But just one, just one. Fifty five and one. Remember those numbers, because I'd have no problem if tonight they did the exact same with the Democrats. If there were 55 questions designed to get them to squabble with each other and only one directed at the Republicans. You know that's not going to happen. Not only is it going to happen, Anderson Cooper said it's not going to happen. And I love this. He says, I'm uncomfortable with the notion of setting people up in order to kind of promote some sort of a faceoff. He's got a problem with his own colleague Jake Tapper. Because that's who he is talking about.
KELLY: So that's his right. I mean, he's the moderator. Tapper is not. This is his ball game tonight. So, you know, he can play it the way he wants. But here's my question to you, his justification was, they're not going after each other like that, the GOP is the Republicans had been. And I guess Tapper felt there was much more fodder to ask one about the other. Cooper is saying, these Dems have been sort of respectful of each other, so I don't have the ammunition even if I want to do it.
BOZELL: I don't think that Anderson Cooper has the right to, in a solo way decide what he's going to do on a network that has just done the opposite with Republicans. If CNN has followed one tact with Republicans, CNN has the responsibility to do the exact same thing with Democrats. If they want to go Oprah with Democrats, go Oprah with the Republicans. But here are the words that I think are just, this is just key here. He said I think talking about the Democrats, I think these are all serious people. This is a serious debate. They want to talk about the issues. So, what do you think? The Republicans are in a serious party, they are not serious people. They don't want to talk about serious issues. That just smacks of elitism.
KELLY: Well, what about, how important is it that he try to draw distinctions between these Democrats running and President Obama?
BOZELL: I think, I think tough questions and I mean I listen to the first few ones, tough questions are fine. All I'm asking, Megyn, is that both sides be treated equally. And I don't mean to be disparaging of Oprah. But you know what I mean, if you're going to have a conversation with one side, have a conversation with the other. If it's going to be hard hitting with one side, fine, be equally hard-hitting. If you're going to go Mike Wallace on one side, go Mike Wallace with the other. If you are going to ask tough questions about your opponents, ask tough questions on both sides.
KELLY: It makes sense. I mean, here at Fox News, we have a debate team. You know, Bret Baier, Chris Wallace and I are the team. And you will be seeing see us at the next republican debate that we're hosting. And if they want to give us a dem debate, you will see us, too. And that allows for some consistency across the board. It's great to see you, Brent.
BOZELL: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: So just so you know, we are watching this debate for you. Obviously, not everybody wants to watch it. If you would like to watch the breakdown of it. Join us tonight at 11:00 because we will have live coverage of what happened and the highlights and so on.
And speaking of politics, this coming Thursday in a cable news exclusive, Charles Koch, yes, that Charles Koch, the guy, the Left loves to hate more than anyone else in this country it seems at times sits down with yours truly in a remarkable exchange. Here's a sneak peek.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Do you believe that the Democrats, including the President, have tried to make boogie men out of you and your brother David?
CHARLES KOCH, BUSINESSMAN: Oh, definitely, that's a full-time job on their part. I mean, that's why I have never been that fond of politics and only got into it recently kicking and screaming.
KELLY: Why do you think they have been so relentless in their attacks? Harry Reid, your brother David pointed out, mentioned the Koch Brothers 289 times from the Senate floor, they have painted you as evil. They actually put you, the White House actually put you on an enemy's list back in the 2012 campaign.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: The answer to that question and so many more. Mark it on your calendar. Set your DVRs as you won't want to miss this interview. Charles Koch on "The Kelly File" this Thursday, 9:00 p.m.
A big announcement from Planned Parenthood today, after a series of sting videos that appear to show the organization trying to make money off of the sale of fetal tissue. Something Planned Parenthood denied. But now they have changed a policy and we have that story, next.
Plus, investigators shared some horrifying details today about exactly what happened when Flight MH17 was shot down over Ukraine. We'll show you the report that is confirming the long held suspicions that Vladimir Putin and Russia may be directly to blame here.
KELLY: Terrifying new details tonight on flight MH17, the commercial airliner shot down over Ukraine last year. Dutch investigators releasing their findings on the cause of that crash today, suggesting that the 298 people who were killed all by a handful likely they suffered unthinkable deaths. The dead included an estimated 80 children, mothers, fathers, grandparents, even some babies. And today, investigators illustrated their findings with an animation of what they think happened.
A Russian made rocket exploding just outside of the cockpit, tearing the flight deck, right from the plane and killing three crew members, instantly. But it's what they say happens next that defies imagination. The blast sending a pressure wave throughout the plane just milliseconds later, causing debris to go flying, temperatures to plummet and creating Russia's air so powerful, it reportedly tore the clothes from people's bodies. Investigators estimate that some people could have survived up to a minute. Russia claims the report is biased. But if true, comments like these from President Vladimir Putin are likely to take on a whole new meaning.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE ROSE, "60 MINUTES" ANCHOR: Marco Rubio is running for the republican nomination. And he said that you were like a gangster.
VLADIMIR PUTIN (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): How can I be a gangster if I worked for the KGB? Come on, that does not correspond to reality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Trace Gallagher reports live from our west coast newsroom. Trace?
TRACE GALLAGHER, LOS ANGELES: Megyn, Dutch investigators reconstructed the entire front section of the Boeing Triple Seven, using recovered wreckage that was scattered from miles. The report concluded the impact pattern could only have come from a surface-to-air missile. And they believe it was a Russian missile, which is consistent with what the United States and the Ukraine believe. Animated video shows the missile exploding three feet from the cockpit, killing the flight crew and spraying their bodies with thousands of metal fragments. The force of the explosion tore away the cockpit and the floor business class, but the rest of the plane kept flying for another 5 miles. It's likely some of the 298 people on board either died quickly or lost consciousness, but many may have been fully conscious for up to a horrifying minute-and-a-half. The report was not intended to assign blame, except for the criminal investigation. But it does say the pro-Russian rebels were in charge of the area where the missile was fired. Here's the Ukrainian foreign minister.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAVLO KILMKIN, UKRAINIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: Bringing such a highly sophisticated, extremely dangerous an air-to-missile system, you know (inaudible) is exactly for me, an example or affections which could be and should be created as an act of terrorism and (inaudible).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Russia has now released a competing presentation, saying the type of missile described is no longer found in Russia's arsenal, and that it must have been fired from Ukrainian-held territory. The U.N. Security Council wanted to set up an international tribunal to investigate the disaster, but Russia vetoed that request; Megyn.
KELLY: Trace, thank you.
Also Breaking Tonight, the president of Planned Parenthood has now announced that the group will no longer take reimbursements as a part of the fetal tissue donation program. The change comes after a series of sting videos that appeared to show them profiting from the practice -- well, that was what the critics said, as doctors on hidden cameras negotiate price and discuss how to get more valuable samples. We have both sides tonight with us with the Family Research Council President Tony Perkins. And also, Nationally Syndicated Radio Host Richard Fowler. Good to see you both. And so Tony, what do you think that their decision, they're not stopping the donation program, they're stopping the reimbursement that they have been receiving for that fetal tissue says about Planned Parenthood?
TONY PERKINS, PRESIDENT, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: I think they're in crisis mode. They know that Congress is on their tail, chasing them and they're hoping that this will throw Congress off, because they know better than anybody what Congress is liable to find if they continue with this investigation looking into what they're doing. Not unlike when I was a police officer, you'd be chasing a car, they would throw something out the window, hoping you would either stop chasing them or they wouldn't be caught with the goods. It didn't work for them. And I don't think it's gonna work for Planned Parenthood either.
KELLY: Richard, that the group that was behind the sting videos comes out and said this, "If the money Planned Parenthood has been receiving for baby body parts, were truly legitimate reimbursement, why cancel it?
RICHARD FOWLER, NATIONALLY SYNDICATED RADIO HOST: Oh, I think what Planned Parenthood is trying to do here is the above board as they've always been and do the humanitarian work they continue to do. I think the question I have for Tony and I think a lot of question -- a lot of women are asking this question, what do you think Congress is going to find that Planned Parenthood had does mammogram screenings and does cancer screenings that they help people make life decision, regarding birth control and condoms and preventing the spread of STDs? Because that's what Planned Parenthood does each and every day from millions and millions of people.
KELLY: Well Richard, Richard, if Planned Parenthood has no problem whatsoever with the investigation, then why don't they just welcome it? They have it.
KELLY: And they want the investigators come in, why have they objected so loud?
FOWLER: Well, of course. That's exactly why you saw Cecile down on Capitol Hill last week for almost three to four hours, answering every question, because Planned Parenthood understands they've done nothing wrong here. This is some botched videos that were edited horribly.
KELLY: But that...
FOWLER: And those individuals who recorded those videos.
KELLY: But that doesn't answer the question.
FOWLER: Were not disputed to Congress.
KELLY: Tony, you tell me. If they've done nothing wrong, then why are they cancelling the reimbursement? Why not just say, we've done nothing wrong? We're not gonna change a thing?
PERKINS: Just a few weeks ago, she was proud of this. Now they're cancelling the reimbursions (ph) -- reimbursement. By the way, Richard, they don't do mammograms. They even admit.
FOWLER: They refer.
PERKIN: By the way, there are four.
PERKINS: At least four other areas where there is clear violations or could be violations which are criminal. And that is altering procedures in order to get these baby parts out, so they can.
KELLY: That would be illegal.
PERKINS: They properly got consent. There is also the issue of partial birth abortion and even killing a born -- a child that's born alive. So there is a lot more questions.
FOWLER: That is ridiculous.
PERKINS: That Planned Parenthood has to answer.
FOWLER: First, let --
KELLY: All right.
FOWLER: Megyn, let's talk about -- let's just talk about the record...
FOWLER: First of all, like we said.
FOWLER: These videos were highly edited and everybody understands that. But number two.
PERKINS: They are not. They are authentic.
FOWLER: Only three percent of the work that Planned Parenthood does even around abortion and abortion services. The other 97 percent is about making sure that women stay healthy and make healthy sexual choices. The hypocrisy here for me Megyn is astonishing. You look at Congressman Jason Chaffetz who -- they are adamantly against abortion. They're adamantly against partial birth abortion, but as soon as that baby is born, they will cut (inaudible), they will cut public education, they -- if all live.
FOWLER: If they really a pro -life.
PERKINS: From Planned Parenthood.
FOWLER: Let's talk about.
FOWLER: Let's talk about from cradle to great pro-life.
KELLY: Go ahead, Tony, quickly.
PERKINS: Look, we're talking about Planned Parenthood that has been caught in activity that appears to be illegal. Congress has a right because they're receiving over a half, almost a half billion dollars.
PERKINS: Of taxpayer money.
FOWLER: For health care, for more reproductive health care, not to abortion.
KELLY: Well, It doesn't look like this is going to stop the investigation.
FOWLER: Not for abortion.
FOWLER: It's not for abortion. It goes for women's health.
KELLY: Got it, got to go, OK. Well, well we also got big news today from the publishers of Playboy magazine. This is your nightly Playboy update. After more than 60 years of centerfolds, they are now going to focus on the news. The news -- the centerfolds are going away. And James Rosen, a special correspondent for this magazine -- yes, that's true, is here on that decision and what makes him so very special.
Plus, Mark and Arthur are here on the major developments we just saw on the trial of the Baltimore six, plus the controversial case of the New York City woman who spent the day suing her 12-year-old nephew. And the pro-Confederate flag group that just got flapped with terrorism charges, that's next.
KELLY: A major milestone in Freddie Gray case today. All six officers charged in Gray's death appeared in court for the first time. At issue were some of the statements given by a couple of the officers to investigators about what happened on the day Freddie Gray was arrested. The defense argued some of those officers were tricked into making those statements, but today a judge ruled those statements are still admissible, so a setback for the defense.
Mark Eiglarsh is a criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor. Arthur Aidala is a Fox News legal analyst and a New York trial attorney, great to see you both. So Mark, basically, this judge said that the statements by two of the officers in particular, including sergeant Alicia White can come in against her, even though her lawyer said one instance, she gave statements without about being micronized (ph), she wasn't given - - she wasn't read her rights.
MARK EIGLARSH, FORMER PROSECUTOR: Yeah, I don't like this ruling at all. First of all, the constitution applies to everyone, including law enforcement officers. And I don't like the fact that these officers have to choose between their cherished fifth aimed right not to incriminate themselves and their livelihood, if you don't cooperate, you don't feed your family. That's not a freely and voluntarily relinquished right that took place. I just don't agree with this ruling.
KELLY: That's the difficult position they were in, Arthur, because they are being asked questions, and are you being asked questions in your role as a cop who is an assistant to the prosecutor who might be charging Freddie Gray or somebody else, or are you the defendant?
ARTHUR AIDALA, NEW YORK TRIAL ATTORNEY: Well, let's give credit to Officer Goodson or his or her attorney. His attorney, him or her, because he didn't speak, he's the only one of the six.
KELLY: The driver of the van.
AIDALA: Who is didn't say a word, so he's in the best position regarding that. You are in front of the judge who routinely his defense attorneys saying that their civilian complaint -- their civilian client was tricked by the police into giving a statement, and the judges routinely say, "No, I don't believe that. I don't believe they were tricked. I am allowing the statement in." So now how does the judge say and from two police officers who know the law better than civilians.
KELLY: But they were in a different goal. The confusing thing for these cops, Mark, is that they were in a different role. They're sitting, they're answering questions about an incident, and they don't know whether they are a potential defendant in a criminal case or whether they are there as cops trying to assist in an investigation of a different case?
EIGLARSH: Yeah, it's even worse. Officer White maintains I have no reason to disbelieve her that she was told that she was a mere witness. She was, "ah, we just need to get your testimony or witness in this case." And so she doesn't think that she has anything to worry about. That to me, while trickery has been upheld.
EIGLARSH: Because they allow do trickery on civilians. I know Arthur. In this case, it just smells.
KELLY: Wait, I want to move one. We have another case here, so now apparently terrorism charges have been brought against a group that was waving a Confederate flag down in Georgia. Fifteen members of the group called Respect the Flag have been indicted. Tell us why, Arthur.
AIDALA: Well there is -- first of all, there is a long grand jury. So this happened in July and this just came down. So that's a good thing. Time, it was no rush to judgment like there was in the Freddie Gray case. And apparently, there were threats. You are allowed to use words, but once it crosses that line into menacing, they were -- but someone said they heard something about guns, I'm going to shoot you and that's where a grand jury has ruled across the line.
KELLY: And the n-word, too. But Mark, terrorism charges, why, how, how'd they get there?
EIGLARSH: Well, ultimately that's what they call it in that state when you move from protected speech to fighting words. And it wasn't just saying the n-word because that's unfortunately, that constitutionally protected. And it wasn't just the flag, it was everything plus fighting words that the encouragement of committing crimes, violence, that's where they cross the line.
KELLY: True fighting words are those meant inciting somebody to act immediately in a violent way. It's not just angry rhetoric, it's right now.
EIGLARSH: Well, they were there in front of the house.
EIGLARSH: Sunday party. They were there.
AIDALA: Someone's got survive (ph) they heard them say, "We got a gun, go shoot the blank."
AIDALA: That's different than just expressing your opinion under the First Amendment.
KELLY: Absolutely right. OK, here's the last thing and the most ridiculous. OK, that. Look at that. That Mark knows what case, we're getting to know. You tell us Mark, why are you doing that? In the case of this poor lady, poor, poor lady, a Manhattan HR manager who is suing her 12-year-old nephew for breaking her wrist at his birthday party when he turned 8.
EIGLARSH: Because. Megyn, it's a money grab, that's why. Obviously, when you're holding an 8-year-old responsible for hugging you and hurting your wrist, a jury will always find that you are grabbing the money. You just know what they did.
AIDALA: It gives lawyers a bad name. My father told me (inaudible), "No matter what, Arthur, you never sued someone in your own family under any circumstance."
KELLY: You father especially underscore that. And you know what the little man has said to her, when he bolted towards her to hug her? And she said Jen, I love you.
AIDALA: Happy Birthday.
EIGLARSH: Yeah, you know what Megyn?
KELLY: If I might be I want to see a thousand times and then snap of your bones.
EIGLARSH: Megyn, if she could use.
KELLY: I got to go.
EIGLARSH: Your good hands to wave goodbye to the family relationship.
AIDALA: Mark really enjoyed this to us tonight.
KELLY: Great to see you both -- me too, me too.
EIGLARSH: Thank you.
KELLY: Coming up, we'll tell you about the surprising change that Playboy is making to give it a boost to its readership, special Playboy correspondent James Rosen is here next.
KELLY: Developing tonight, a dramatic announcement from Playboy magazine. After 60 years of centerfolds, the magazine says it is done with nude picture of women. The change means people will actually, really be reading the magazine for the articles. Joining me now, our own James Rosen, who is actually written several articles for the magazine and is so delighted that now finally (inaudible).
JAMES ROSEN, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, PLAYBOY: First of all, I'm delighted to have you back in Washington, OK? Where you started out -- it makes me feeling like singing, frankly, a little.
KELLY: Go for it.
ROSEN: Welcome back. Your dreams were your ticket out.
KELLY: Well, all right. That's (inaudible) of Sheryl Crow.
ROSEN: Listen, she makes a fine president.
KELLY: She sang the national anthem on before the democrat debate, it was a little rough.
ROSEN: So yeah, I mean, I've written four times for Playboy since 2006. I've gotten that joke about reading a few articles many times. In a lot of ways, this makes sense because the media landscape has changed so dramatically since 1953 when Hugh Hefner started Playboy. And even from the late '70s when he really started to face competition from other.
KELLY: What just happened? Do men no longer want to see nude women?
ROSEN: Well, they can go to the internet to do it and for free.
ROSEN: Yeah. And in some ways, I hope that this will mean that playboy will tilt more toward the highbrow literary aspect that it is always has.
KELLY: It has and it has been respected for its writing.
ROSEN: And not tilt so much to that other stuff.
KELLY: And so now, what does this mean? Their circulation is expected to increase because the stats say that they had 5.6 million in '75.
ROSEN: In 1975, yeah.
KELLY: Now the circulation is 800,000. So do they believe that they'll get those numbers back if they take rid of -- they take out the nudies?
ROSEN: Apparently -- the nudies.
ROSEN: What year is this? Look, I said they have some internal data that show that people under 30 surged toward the magazine and toward the website once nudity was removed from the website in 2014.
ROSEN: And so if they kept the nudity in, their numbers would skew towards 47, 48 years of age, so that brings them down into the 30s and that's desirable.
KELLY: As great as your writing is, and I highly recommend it in any form. Book, article, whatever, did it ever feel weird to see all this great journalism you are doing, right underneath the picture of, you know, down south Rio, on a woman.
ROSEN: Only the.
KELLY: Taking a trip down to Rio and there's James Rosen.
ROSEN: Yeah. The -- down south to Rio.
ROSEN: Am I blushing, Tom, (inaudible)? Yeah, it was a little odd, but you know I also had my guy friends literally bowing down to me and saying, "It's over. You're the king."
KELLY: Yeah, but you don't get to actually meet the women.
ROSEN: I never met the women, I never met Hef, I've never been to the mansion, but I'm still a young man.
KELLY: There's still hope. James Rosen, thank you, sir.
ROSEN: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: Specially (ph) Special correspondent. We will be right back. Don't go away.
KELLY: We are live in D.C. tonight because today I had the honor of speaking at Fortune Most Powerful Women Summit. This year's theme is leading with purpose. And here with the very first question, host Patty Sellers asked me.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PATRICIA SELLERS, FORTUNE'S SENIOR EDITOR AT LARGE: What does power mean to you? What is that word mean to you?
KELLY: I think it's synonymous with freedom, you know choices. I mean, I think one of the things that gives me power in my job is I don't need my job. I love my job. I would like to hold on to my job, but God forbid I got fired tomorrow, and I'd be just fine. And I would have said that eight, nine years ago when I was only a first or second-year, you know, reporter at Fox News. Because I like to hedge my bets and I like to make sure I have a few different options. So when I first started in television, if television fell through, I was going to go back to my legal practice and make use of my legal skills. And now, if I did or said something catastrophic that ended my television career tomorrow, I'd find something else to do. So for me, that empowers me to make the choices that are right for me and allows me not to let any one person, whether it's an employer or someone else I have to deal with, control me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: By the way, I don't think I am getting fired. No one has said anything to me. I feel pretty good. I like being here. We ended by discussing my 4-year-old daughter Yardley who came with me on the trip, watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: I said, you know where we're going, honey? We're going to the Fortune Most Powerful Women Summit. And she said, "Are we two of them?"
SELLER: Yes, you are. And Yardley, you are one of them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Great moment. Hey, we'll have full coverage of the debate happening at the other channel at 11 o'clock this evening. Krauthammer, Hume and so on, join us then.
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