White House: Putin is playing checkers not chess

Josh Earnest dismisses Russian intervention in Syria


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 7, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle, along with Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It is 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Checkers or chess, which game does the White House thinks Vladimir Putin is playing?


JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I don't think President Putin is playing chess. He's playing checkers. And I say that because he's making a series of tactical decisions that are leading to a starkly negative strategic conclusion. Russia is being sucked into a sectarian civil war. Essentially, a quagmire that poses as whole set of risks to Russia's interests, not just in the region, but back at home.


GUILFOYLE: As the Obama administration keeps trying to paint Putin as weak, Russia is intercepting our drones over Syria and a very concerning development. The AP reports the FBI and police in Moldova have foiled a plot by smuggle with tie Russia to sell nuclear materials to jihadist groups like ISIS.




GUILFOYLE: Suspected arms dealers in Europe have allegedly been looking to sell weapons-grade uranium to terrorists. At least four attempts were reportedly made over the last five years, here's the SEAL who killed bin Laden and a former counter-terror official on this threat.


ROB O'NEIL, NAVY SEAL WHO KILLED BIN LADEN: They've proved right now. They don't even need the weapon. All they need is the threat of the weapon and they're gonna get people nervous. I mean, they've done it before with any kind of thing they can in an airport and all of a sudden, you know we have a knee-jerk reaction to everything. As long as they can affect anything as far as commerce, as far as trade, as far as travel, they're going to do it.

MICHAEL LEITER, NATIONAL COUNTERTERRORISM CENTER FORMER DIRECTOR: This is the something that the U.S. and we hope Russia have to take very seriously, because the consequences of missing nuclear material and allowing it to get to a group like ISIS would certainly be catastrophic.


GUILFOYLE: Does this development surprise you, Eric, when you hear about this? This has been going on.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Maybe, the finding of the nuclear material?


BOLLING: No. I think it's been going on for a long time. And fortunately, we did find out. I'm sure that there is that material available. It's just a matter of time, but the other part is getting it here, number one. And number two, how do you dispense it? Where are you going to put it? There's a lot of planning that goes into it. What's concerning is the way that computation with Russia happen today. So we have a drone and they have fighter jets, they come within 20 miles of each other and our drones are told to go back. That's a conflict, OK? So we need to deconflict. You know these deconfliction talks that we were supposed to be having. Apparently, they didn't work.


BOLLING: And they really need to outline what deconfliction means to each side. So that when they come up with a strategy, because God forbid, it's not a drone next time, and it's a fighter. And the fighter pilot decides to fire on a Russian jet or the Russian jet decides his threaten to fight -- it fires on a U.S. jet and then we're engaged. And then -- this conflict that's right now over Syria, small country in the Middle East becomes an international crisis.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. Well, this is the part we were just talking about, this way. It feels like moments ago, right? Just in the last couple of days, that this is what the foreshadowing we're talking. Now when we look at these images of what's happening over there, it seems like you're watching episode of Homeland or 24, when you hear about this and what the Russians are doing. It's really remarkable that the situation has gone this bad, this quickly.



PERINO: So -- a couple of things, one of the -- one a big concerns about this problem is that Russia has been very cooperative with the United States in trying to find and share intelligence to make sure that people like the individual who is arrested today, that was having weapons-grade uranium that they're trying to sell, that we can track those people down. So that cooperation between the United States and Russia and other countries has been key to try to stop those attacks. And so hopefully, we can keep those lines of communication open with them while we have this other problem going on Syria because that is what I think that most intelligence officials would say that's the next step in the war on terror against western national -- nationalization -- national countries.

The other thing is Kerry and Lavrov. Remember last week, we sat here and we waited for them to come out and do their press conference. And one of the things they've said is, "We are committed to continuing to talk. We need to work on this deconfliction issue." Came out today, the State Department confirmed that Lavrov and Kerry have not spoken since last week, so there is that. The other thing is when the White House -- I understand what they're saying when there -- when they explain their point of view.


PERINO: About Putin's position now. That they think he's operating from a position of weakness, that they getting themselves too far and over his head. The thing is that -- that's not how Putin sees himself. So while it's true that people in Russia are less wealthy than they were even last year, they're dying -- they die at a younger age than even before -- every year, it's like their life expectancy goes down. They do have a ton of problems, but right now, I think that Putin, probably has calculated this just right for what he needs right now. So we can't wait for the long arc of history to show that Putin was wrong. And that's why I don't - actually know what the Department of Defense is doing because the National Security Council is supposed to run all of these policies through that they're talking directly to generals and end-running around to the cabinet from the actual staff, and so nobody knows what's going on. And that's why there's a lack of imagination.

GUILFOYLE: All right. So Greg, how do you see it? I mean people saw of you know, Putin has all of these problems in Russia, I mean, from where I am sitting, it looks like he's on top of things. He's taking the charge. He's calling the shots.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: He's on top of that horse shortlist, staring Obama down. I like Earnest. Letting us know that they're not playing chess, they're playing checkers, while we're playing Yahtzee. By the way, earlier, Obama had used a chess metaphor when talking about these about the problem with Putin. You don't -- just let the chess thing go, the Russians will kill you at chess. So that will be some metaphor.

GUILFOYLE: That kills you -- there's history of that.

GUTFELD: I think we have a bigger issue here with this radioactive -- this chemical business that was -- that happened today. This is no surprise for anybody who has an imagination. Terror is a full-time occupation. Terrorists don't go home at 5 o'clock and play with their kids or do fantasy football or a barbeque in the backyard. They think about this all the time. And they've had 15 years since 9/11, so 9/11 --the next one going to make 9/11 look like 9/10, like nothing. And we -- I have yet to see anybody in this administration talk about these new dangers. And it's not a state danger like Russia. It's not Russia. It's these non-state actors. These people that are trying, that now have the capacity that powerful states have like America and Russia. We have the power to kill lots of people, but now they are non-state people with the same power, and there's no place for isolationists or pacifists who mistake, who -- somehow believe that security comes at the expense of freedom. They -- security and freedom go hand in hand.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: You know I hadn't put this together until I listened to you, Gregory.

GUTFELD: Are you being -- are you modest?

WILLIAMS: No, because some believe that a Fantasy Football, the Russians are the ones who are behind that?


WILLIAMS: I didn't know that.

GUTFELD: Yes. It all comes together, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Oh, pesky. They are up to something, I'm telling you. But you know in fact, coming back to work.

GUILFOYLE: You do have a real comment?

WILLIAMS: You started this conversation



WILLIAMS: I think I was more concerned than Eric was, about the sale of nuclear weapons.


WILLIAMS: To bad guys, because it raised two points for me, one is, are they getting these weapons from the Russian government? Is the Russian government not in full possession and control of their own nuclear? Where are these -- and even if they're.

BOLLING: They getting material right now.


BOLLING: So it's not technical their weapon yet.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, but where are they getting these nuclear materials from?


PERINO: They get it from a lot of places.


WILLIAMS: No, from Russia.

BOLLING: From (inaudible) -- yeah.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what I'm saying.


WILLIAMS: I mean we have -- we always worry about like, you know who was that Pakistani scientist who was helping the Iranians develop? But now, if you're telling me that an established nuclear power like Russia, it doesn't have full control of its nuclear elements and -- then I'm thinking wow, we are -- this is like Greg's fantasy about bad guys, with high-end technology.

GUTFELD: That's non-state actors are now everywhere.


GUTFELD: Who actually exact the same kind of apocalyptic terror that no one -- but major states could do. It's equalizing terror.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's -- but that is scary.

PERINO: And Putin is at risk of them as well.

GUTFELD: It is scary.

WILLIAMS: That is what I'm saying.

PERINO: But Putin is at risk of them as well. That's where we actually still have some comment now.

WILLIAMS: Oh why do you think that?

PERINO: Well because there are people within Russia. That's like the soft underbelly of Russia, what do you have. Like for example...

BOLLING: Chechen.

PERINO: Chechen rebels and things like that.


PERINO: I mean, they are at risk as well, that's why you have, cooperation's why important? It's important that we continue to talk to them, even in the middle of what looks like to be -- not only just a tense situation in Syria, but you also have the Turks who are attacking the Kurds, which actually with the Kurds are the one most helpful for us attacking ISIS and it's a huge mess.

WILLIAMS: Right. So I think the biggest threat.

BOLLING: Do you think.


BOLLING: Can I just throw in a big (inaudible).



BOLLING: Josh Earnest calls Putin a checkers player. A year and a half ago, two years ago, he called ISIS.


BOLLING: JV team. I mean, they're not taking any threats seriously.



BOLLING: Don't worry about it. Nothing to see here and people are dying.

GUILFOYLE: And we're playing like Redline Jenga. Oh, we move it over here.

PERINO: Putin is playing Monopoly.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. I don't know. I mean the White House to stay away from those metaphors.

PERINO: It's on Crimea place.

WILLIAMS: But, but you guys don't think.

GUILFOYLE: It's not helping them, whatsoever.

WILLIAMS: That Putin's winning -- the Putin's -- this is stupidity by Putin.

GUILFOYLE: Why do you say that?

WILLIAMS: Well, obviously, the soviet -- the Russian economy can't handle this for any long period of time. Secondly, remember what happened to them in Afghanistan, Kimberly? They -- it ruined them. That's how Ronald Reagan won the cold war.

GUTFELD: But I don't think that -- I don't think it's a question that Putin is winning, it's that we're losing.

WILLIAMS: How are we losing?

PERINO: And that Putin is reckless.

GUTFELD: I think.

WILLIAMS: Yes. I agree with that point.

GUTFELD: I think -- well.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, but he's exerting influence.

GUTFELD: We let (ph) state than we were before.

GUILFOYLE: He's calling the shot.

GUTFELD: Because we've retreated from the world state.

WILLIAMS: No, I would say, if you said to me, Obama screwed up in terms of lack of Syrian strategy policy.


WILLIAMS: So OK, I agree. I think things are going well.

GUTFELD: I just meant -- I just psychologically said that to you.

WILLIAMS: Is that right?

GUTFELD: I -- yes. You met -- you read my mind. That's exactly what I meant.

WILLIAMS: Is this Russian.

GUTFELD: He failed with his strategy.

WILLIAMS: Is this Russian like.


WILLIAMS: You know I get. I get, I get -- you are devious.


WILLIAMS: You're a devious man.


WILLIAMS: But I don't know how to how it's -- we are less safe as an American people, because the Russians are over there wasting their time and money, messing around with these

PERINO: And I think that we think it's a waste of time and money. He doesn't see it that way. I mean, we have to like think like they do. We are saying that yes, Russia you're so weak and you're so lame. OK, of all the things might be true, but that's not how he sees himself. So the recklessness part of it becomes an even bigger concern because of this immediate conflict. We actually have planes in the air flying with weapons.

WILLIAMS: I agree with you. I just -- I worry that the appeal to nationalism works politically for Putin, at this moment?

PERINO: Definitely.


GUTFELD: It's working for a lot of people in America.

WILLIAMS: What do you mean?

GUTFELD: Well, Trump.

WILLIAMS: Well, not -- he's not like Putin. I.

GUTFELD: No, no, no.

PERINO: No, no, no.

GUTFELD: But he's appealing to nationalism.

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: Yes. I agree.

GUTFELD: Which isn't necessarily a bad thing.

PERINO: I love it when you disagree with Greg.


GUILFOYLE: That was nice, just a little bow on that. Next, the FBI makes new seizures in the Clinton e-mail investigation, stay tuned.


PERINO: Hillary Clinton's aides and allies have been trying their hardest to get everyone to move on from her e-mail scandal.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's ridiculous. Why are we talking about this? This is nonsense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's been a relentless campaign of distortion here that's gone on for six months. And I don't think that Hillary Clinton brought that on herself.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Here's the bottom line.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hillary Clinton has taken responsibility for this. She has apologized. She has turnover her server.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And it's time to begin the focus on the things that Americans are worrying about around their kitchen table.


PERINO: You notice how their voices get higher the more they talk about it? All right, the investigation keeps widening, though. The Washington beacon reports that the FBI recently seized four servers from the State Department as it tries to determine how classified information made its way on the Clinton's private server. And the agency's probe has now expanded to a technology company, a second one called Datto Incorporated. It was hired to help back-up data by the firm that managed Clinton's server at Platte River Networks. They are said to be cooperating. So, it's like the Pandora's Box of e-mail thing. It's not just the server, it's the fact that Hillary Clinton -- every one of her explanations has been proven to be false. And I don't see how they get away with saying, well she -- accept the responsibility. That -- I don't think that's gonna cut it.

GUTFELD: Well, I love the fact that the FBI grabbed four servers, which equals Bill Clinton on a typical night out.

GUILFOYLE: Oh my, God.


GUTFELD: Thank you very much.


GUTFELD: Why is this important? Why is the scandal important? Because terror comes -- I'm gonna back to A-block. Terror comes in all shapes and sizes, including cyberterror. And I don't think a person who mistreats classified e-mail in this manner, understands that there are people out there who want to knock out power in the hospital and kill patients or derail trains from afar, or deal with drones and anthrax. She can't even think about that, because she doesn't even understand what she has done and how dangerous she is with classified info. Her -- she kept her server in the toilet and that's where her campaign should go.


PERINO: One of the things about her is that she is believed to think that she is better than everybody else. She doesn't have to follow the same rules. But anybody that has a top-secret plan that have done anything close to what she was doing, would have been fired and out of a job. And she wants to be president of the United States and wants us to just move on from it. That's -- I don't get that.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, because she feels entitled. There's a whole, like philosophy there with the people that are surrounding her that this is her moment, that she's entitled to have the presidency and everyone else is just pesky and interfering, including the Benghazi committee. So that's why when she said, what difference does it make? She really meant it. Take her at her word.

PERINO: Next week, Eric, just a few days from now the democrats are actually going to have their first debate, it's happening on Tuesday. And do you think that Bernie Sanders will actually go after her on the.


PERINO: Celebration?

BOLLING: I do. And I hope CNN does go after her and ask her about it because it does matter. Contrary to all of those Hillary Clinton surrogates, it matters because as a voter, you have to make a decision whether or not you believe Hillary Clinton really didn't know that a, she wasn't supposed to be doing what she was doing and b, she didn't understand what classified material was. Any logical person with half a brain has to realize those two cannot be true. Therefore, you have to pull a voting, vote in favor of someone who blatantly lied to you. If you still want to do that, knock yourself out, but that's why it's still relevant. That's why it still matters. And I tell you one other reason why it still matters. About 60 percent of the e-mails are still coming out. We still don't know what's on those 60 2/3, and then the 50 -- thousands that she already scrubbed.

PERINO: Juan, I'm actually curious. I think that the democrats are so good at working to be in lockstep with one another that -- I think Bernie Sanders might actually agree and say, "Let's move on from the e-mail scandal." And that will show -- I think that he doesn't really want to win. If he does that, but the democrats -- do you get the sense that they're just all gonna lock arms and not allow anymore questioning about it?

WILLIAMS: I have a different view, but answer -- the short answer to your question is yes. And the -- but the reason is different. The reason is that if you look at the polls, most democrats don't care about the issue. And so what you're going to get is, if Bernie Sanders or, let's say Joe Biden, if he gets up there or Jim Webb or.

PERINO: O'Malley.

WILLIAMS: Martin O'Malley. If any or -- Lincoln Chafee.

PERINO: Oh yeah.

WILLIAMS: Any of them get up there and start attacking on this issue they will be seen as carrying water for the republicans.

PERINO: Interesting.

WILLIAMS: And pursuing the republican agenda against Hillary Clinton.

PERINO: That's' a good point.

WILLIAMS: And make her more sympathetic figure among lots of democrats. But I must say, I -- I'm a little bit you know, I told you first that I thought that Hillary Clinton was entitled and acted like privileged. And but -- you know what I've heard from other people?

GUILFOYLE: An influence peddling.

WILLIAMS: But that's on the foundation.


WILLIAMS: I mean, I must tell you -- I.


PERINO: That's a fact, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Why doesn't she just come forward on the e-mail stuff? Why doesn't she get rid of the foundation? I don't know. But anyway, she was first lady of the United States, Kimberly, right?


WILLIAMS: So, and she's gone through scandals with her husband. I can imagine that people say, "Well, maybe she wanted privacy on her server."

PERINO: But that doesn't mean that you can do something that other people would get fired for from the federal government. Can I take one -- can I.


PERINO: Because Donald Trump continues to be ahead of republican. There's a new Quinnipiac poll today, Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, he's still leading. Hillary Clinton also -- you know, the poll numbers come out today and we have a consistency. Let's take a look at this Quinnipiac asking, "Would you say that Hillary Clinton is honest and trustworthy?" And in those key states of Florida, Ohio and Pennsylvania, strong majorities all saying, no. The interesting thing is that you can also be, you can be the frontrunner and also be unpopular, thought to be untrustworthy. Here's Donald Trump's number saying poll, "Would you say Trump is honest and trustworthy?" And, no. In Florida again, majorities of 54 percent across the board, so how can -- how does that happen, Greg, where you can be the frontrunner and be popular, but also be unpopular and untrustworthy?

GUTFELD: Well, if you're dynamic personality, people love you or they hate you and that could be it. You know I love about Donald, he's posting about. He's only spent $2 million so far, it's amazing. You're welcome. FNC has Donald on more than William Devane. But I look at.


GUTFELD: I look at everybody. I look at the 20 candidates and -- I think -- America needs to start picking them off like, you know, like fleas off a dog until you find the one who's most mature about national security. And we don't know that about Hillary. And where is -- I mean, I think that Jim Webb is going to have a great opportunity in this debate. He's in the debate, right, CNN debate?



GUTFELD: Democratic debate. To actually come at Hillary over national security because I think that's the most important thing. We're not talking about.

WILLIAMS: Where? What would you go after?

GUTFELD: Her -- let's try with Benghazi. Let's try -- she's absolutely no national.

WILLIAMS: There you go.

GUTFELD: No national -- oh, I fell off the table.

WILLIAMS: On Benghazi? You expect a democrat to go after Hillary Clinton? Come on.

GUTFELD: Jim Webb is a veteran. He's probably -- he's probably really concerned about national security.

GUILFOYLE: Base on real fact (ph). I think with Trump, his numbers that you saw, that you ask the question. I think it's because he's a very smart, good businessman, right? He gets -- he makes stuff happen. He gets the deals done that he wants. So people necessarily think well, if you do that you're kind of crafty. Maybe you're not so trustworthy because you're the shrewd businessman which is a different dynamic than Hillary, who is just, you know, untrustworthy, unlikable in general as a politician.

PERINO: That's what Eric said.

BOLLING: And the last word is that he identifies the American voter. I don't trust you, but I'll still vote for you because I like you. And that's part of the problem.

GUILFOYLE: And democrats don't have really any other choice.




GUILFOYLE: Until Biden gets in.

BOLLING: Hillary is her favorability three months ago with 65 percent.


BOLLING: Positive.


BOLLING: And now she's 30 or 40 percent.

PERINO: Thirty-nine.

BOLLING: 39 percent negative now.


GUTFELD: The more they see, the less they like.



BOLLING: But there's still hope.

WILLIAMS: There's been an onslaught of negative coverage.


PERINO: Oh, poor her.

WILLIAMS: Oh yeah. You guys.


GUTFELD: I like the republicans.

WILLIAMS: The republicans?

GUTFELD: Every republican has a target on their back, much larger than Hillary.


PERINO: All right, then ahead. We've got more for you because why trust the American media? Is that an all-time low and Gutfeld has an investigation.

GUILFOYLE: Why didn't.


GUILFOYLE: Why is that?


GUTFELD: A new Gallup poll finds trust in the media lower than me doing the limbo. It's true. San Quentin gets better write ups on Yelp. Charles Manson has a higher e-harmony score. How odd, people reject the media, despite its growing pool of attractive mouthpieces and portable delivery systems. So if you're a doctor checking the media's vitals, what's your diagnosis? It's the medium, but the toxic message, Kimberly. They spent seven years overlooking an inept president contributing to his calamitous foreign policy. They've spent decades shaping climate change ideology, mocking competing data while linking scientists to Holocaust deniers. They happily accept an obscure video as causing Benghazi, which surprise, absolved their hero. They ran a media blackout on Planned Parenthood while anointing a boy who builds a phony clock, just to champion their own beliefs about a hateful America.

The prognosis, a malignancy of bias eating away from the inside for decades. Designating themselves as catchers in the rye, the media chose to stand between you and the common sense that would expose them as destructive phonies. What's finally hitting America's olfactory bulb is the rot within. Which is why, as it gets easier to digest media more people are getting sick from it. If the media were a restaurant, America is getting food poisoning. Which makes "The Five" your handy stomach pump.


GUILFOYLE: That one is unsavory.

GUTFELD: It is unsavory because it's true, Kimberly. Kimberly, this is healthy skepticism, you shouldn't trust the media, right?

GUILFOYLE: I don't -- I feel really creepy when we do this because we're part of the media.

GUTFELD: Not -- no, we're not.

GUILFOYLE: So we have to say.

GUTFELD: We're above at all.

GUILFOYLE: For sure we're the pinnacle of success.

GUTFELD: We're angels on a cloud.

GUILFOYLE: And the credibility.

GUTFELD: We're two little old guys from the Muppets. You know, we're off on the side, talking about the media.

GUILFOYLE: We're the Golden Girls.


GUILFOYLE: You especially. But yeah, I mean, of course, but I -- the media, distrust them? They don't tell the full story. We do it here. That's why our job is constant and sometimes exhausting because we have to do the job that others are not doing, Juan Williams?

WILLIAMS: Oh, is that right? Well, you know, I'm all for it. I must say, these numbers just knock me out. You know Fox is number one. Most trusted, right?


WILLIAMS: Of course. But -- so, but guess what, it's the least trusted. This is really wild, C-span. I mean what kind.

GUTFELD: How dare they?

WILLIAMS: Yeah. What you gonna -- what is to distrust about C-span?


GUTFELD: You know who is? It's the caller from Iowa.


WILLIAMS: The caller from Iowa?

GUTFELD: It's such a jerk.


GUTFELD: Every Sunday.

WILLIAMS: Well actually, I think.


WILLIAMS: I think media -- the media is pretty low. I would agree. Other than like TV evangelists and morticians, we are down there. But I think it is part -- it's so part on these days. So liberals don't like media, conservatives don't like media, who like -- I mean.

GUTFELD: Eric, that's a point that (inaudible) Cillizza.

BOLLING: Cillizza.

PERINO: Cillizza.

GUTFELD: Cillizza from The Washington Post makes. He blames it all on partisanship, that we all have a vested interest in casting press as hopelessly biased.

BOLLING: And that's why. Chris Cillizza, who I know and I kind of like a little bit. I like "The Fix" a little bit. It's all right.

So -- Congress, Wall Street and the media, I call that the trifecta of mistrust.

WILLIAMS: You've got it.

BOLLING: So C-SPAN, you have the cameras fixed on the politicians.

GUILFOYLE: Maybe that's it.

BOLLING: They have something to say.

WILLIAMS: It's the politicians.

BOLLING: Exactly.

WILLIAMS: All right. I see.

GUILFOYLE: That's a good one. They're rolling it live.

GUTFELD: How you cannot trust Brian Lamb?

WILLIAMS: I don't know. I like him.

GUTFELD: Yes. "Book Notes" is fantastic.

PERINO: Great program.

GUTFELD: Exactly. And that other guy. I can't remember...

BOLLING: Brian Williams? That one?

GUTFELD: No. Dana...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. Bolling can't resist a cheap shot.

BOLLING: Was that? That wasn't cheap. I didn't -- I'm not the one who claimed I was in a helicopter taking fire.

WILLIAMS: Leave it alone. Leave it alone.

GUTFELD: People under 50 are far more skeptical than -- towards the media than over 50. That's just cause we're young people like myself, are natural distrustful.

PERINO: You put yourself in that category?

GUTFELD: Under 50.

PERINO: When you have to, like, -- when you take an Internet survey, you have to scroll down?

GUTFELD: That is the worst thing ever, when you get to find -- try to find 1964.

PERINO: OK. Your question was?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: I have no more -- I have no more questions, your Honor.

PERINO: I think that we don't understand the impact of social media yet about -- on this.


PERINO: And so this is about like a 15-year period. But really, let's say, in the last ten years with the proliferation of different ways to get your news and in a commentary about the news, I don't think that we actually understand, when they say the media, is not trusted. So that's that.

There are other -- the second thing is I think that there's a lot of trust in photojournalism. Not necessarily in the editing and which pictures are chosen. But if you think about the impact of photojournalists on the world and on history and on political events...

GUTFELD: That's true.

PERINO: ... you can actually believe it because you can see it with your own eyes.

GUTFELD: That ends wars, photojournalism, yes.

PERINO: It actually -- but it started the huge debate about the refugee crisis, when the little boy was found dead on the shore. So photojournalists, I think, can be trusted.

GUTFELD: So we're going to end with Dana giving actually, really valuable insight into this. I was shocked.

PERINO: He was so shocked.

GUTFELD: I am. I didn't see that coming, to be honest.


GUTFELD: All right. Should an Ivy League professor lose her job for using a racial slur to describe Ben Carson? Next.


WILLIAMS: So I want to know how this professor got a job at an Ivy League school and why she still has that job. Anthea Butler teaches religious studies at the University of Pennsylvania. This was her back in June.


ANTHEA BUTLER, PROFESSOR, UNIVERSITY OF PENNSYLVANIA: We've had a rise within the last six years of a lot of white supremacist groups and the right-wing groups. We have a basic, you know, stew every day of how black people are to be hated and distrusted in this country.

I have to tell you that living in America right now, as an African-American woman, a professional and academic, that I am, too, within this very veil of hatred that we live in in this nation right now.


WILLIAMS: While Butler talks about hatred, she herself is perfectly happy to spew it at someone who doesn't agree with her politics.

Last week, presidential candidate Ben Carson said he was fine with people flying the Confederate flag as long as they didn't do it on public land or public property. Butler didn't like that and took to Twitter using a disgusting racial slur against him. Quote, "If only there were a coon of the year award," end quote. Now she herself is black. I don't know how this happens.

I think she should be removed from her job immediately. If anybody said this -- just imagine now, if anybody said that about President Obama in 2008, they would have been fired. Gone. No excuses. We contacted the school today, and they have yet to tell us if they will take any action.

Kimberly, do you see this differently?

GUILFOYLE: I think it's so offensive, so offensive. I'm 100 percent with you. The university should fire her. There's no place for that. I mean - - where does she get off saying something like that about Ben Carson?

WILLIAMS: I don't get it. I mean, it seems to me to be totally a racial put down.

GUILFOYLE: Horrific. It's racist.

WILLIAMS: It has no content other than, "I'm doing a racial one up. I'm blacker than you."

BOLLING: True. But isn't speech protected, including offensive speech protected?

WILLIAMS: You mean, in terms of her rights as a professor?

BOLLING: Her right? Yes, do you want her fired because she said something offensive? Do you want everyone fired for saying something that's perceived to be offensive?

GUTFELD: She would fire you. She would fire you in a second, Eric.

BOLLING: I think we all at one point would be fired.

GUTFELD: But this is different. You can -- businesses can fire you for saying offensive things. That's not a First Amendment issue. She's not going to jail for this.

WILLIAMS: This is not -- this is not a PC argument. I can understand if you were saying to me, "Oh, you're just being PC. Here's what she really meant." There's no substance to this; there's no actual debate. Am I off on this?

PERINO: Well, it's interesting to me that so she's on a campus where we've been talking a lot over the past couple of years about these microaggressions and how people on campus get so upset if you maybe allude to something that would be perceived as hurtful to them. and that's called a microaggression. She skipped the micro part and went straight for aggression.

The other day, I said the last thing you're allowed to be in America is a conservative woman. That's actually not true. The last thing you're allowed to be in America is a conservative black man.

GUILFOYLE: Conservative black man, yes.

PERINO: Or woman.

WILLIAMS: You're not allowed to be?

PERINO: Correct, you're not allowed to be. And there's, like -- there's a way to go after them with impunity. And what she says, that the reason -- she's been criticized for her rhetoric in the past. And what she says is, "Well, I have tenure, so I can't get fired."

WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, but she's -- the tenure is intended to allow full and honest debate about substantive issues. This is not a substantive issue.

PERINO: I agree. I agree.

WILLIAMS: This is like Eric calling me a nasty name. what -- I mean, he may not like, but what's the point?

GUTFELD: In this -- by the way, they're not protecting any kind of debate. There is no debate on campuses. You have Hirsi Ali, who goes to speak to a college and is rejected. While they shield identity creeps. And that's a problem.

I mean, right now hatred is an elective course...


GUTFELD: ... that is applauded, depending on what side you're on. And this is -- this woman, in a way, is a victim of her own identity politics. It's poisoned her mind.

So when she sees a brain surgeon, a talented brain surgeon, she thinks that word. I mean, that shows you that somehow she has been brainwashed; and that's what happens on a campus that doesn't allow other points of discourse.

GUILFOYLE: The problem is to me that's -- it's a hate speech. It's a hate speech. That's racist, and it has no place. And I mean, it's very, very disrespectful. And people in the African-American community should be very outraged that she would even say that about somebody, such a fine individual like Ben Carson or anybody that is African-American. Like what is wrong with her?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think it's a lot of self-hatred that's involved there. It's so deep. Because the Confederate flag issue, that's a legitimate issue. If she wants to say she thinks he's wrong, fine. But why do you have to go in the gutter?

Anyway, don't move, "The Fastest Seven" coming right up.


BOLLING: Welcome back. Time for...


GRAPHIC: Fastest 7


BOLLING: ... "The Fastest Seven Minutes on Television." Three flashy stories, seven flowing minutes, one fun-loving host.

First up, Bill Clinton...

GUILFOYLE: Not like...

BOLLING: ... hitting the talk show circuit, in an attempt to salvage his wife's struggling campaign. Bubba with Colbert last night talking Trump. Check it out, it's huge.


STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, CBS'S "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": Why do you think Trump is doing so well?

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Because he's a master brander, and he's the most interesting character out there. And because he says something that overrides the ideological differences.

It may have a short half-life, his campaign, I can't tell you. But he's a master brander. And there is a macho appeal to saying, "I'm just sick of nothing happening. I make things happen; vote for me."


BOLLING: OK. Can we just...

GUILFOYLE: Nice delivery.

BOLLING: A short half-life.

PERINO: No, he said it might have. I don't know. I actually think that that was solid analysis from somebody who's considered one of the best politicians of his generation. I would say 43 slightly better. But I think both of them have a good handle on what is going on with the presidential race. And I thought that that was good analysis.

BOLLING: You do? Is he -- is he out to help Hillary? Is that what this whole talk show circuit...

GUTFELD: I don't know. I mean, Donald Trump is a master brander and Bill Clinton is a...

BOLLING: Mm-hmm.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

BOLLING: He should take Bill -- I think that Trump, if he were smart, he would pick Bill as his V.P. and run against Hillary and Huma. How great would that be? Is that genius? Thank you, America, you're welcome.

BOLLING: K.G., you're up. Your thoughts on Bubba.

GUILFOYLE: Bubba's always got a good hand on everything.

WILLIAMS: It doesn't stop around here.

GUTFELD: I opened the door.

GUILFOYLE: He opened the floodgates.

What do I think? I think he was fantastic. He's got a good delivery. I think he actually helped Trump.

GUTFELD: He's hit on you, hasn't he?


GUTFELD: He has!

BOLLING: I witnessed that. No, I have witnessed that. I've seen it with my own eyes.

PERINO: That's a long list, though.

If he had hit on me, that would be unique, and that did not happen.

BOLLING: So Juan, can I ask you...



PERINO: Yes, poor me.

GUILFOYLE: He probably just couldn't see you.

BOLLING: Bill claimed Trump is -- might be a flash in the pan. Well, he's been the leader for three months.

WILLIAMS: You know it's the conventional wisdom, though. Everybody keeps -- I mean, here at FOX -- everybody thinks, he's not going to last. It can't last. But it lasts.

It's like there's a new poll out today that has him up, I think, by like nine or ten points. Right? It's unbelievable.

BOLLING: Nationally and in...

WILLIAMS: So I mean, I think he did his best to try to explain it.

I was -- the macho man thing, interestingly, I understand "I'm smarter, I'm richer than you are." OK. Maybe some people think, well, he must know something. But the macho man part, that doesn't...

BOLLING: Let's move on to this one.

PERINO: That surprises you?

GUILFOYLE: What do you mean? Why are you so...?

WILLIAMS: Trump is macho man? Like Putin?

PERINO: Appealing to the macho man.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. But it's like he's a man, that he's got, you know, he's going to make decisions and...

PERINO: Not to women. He does bad with women, but guys.

BOLLING: I've got to move on. We're going to not have time.

GUTFELD: Guys like him too much.

BOLLING: King of the late night, my man Jimmy Fallon surprised us with a special guest last night, the man who hosted "The Tonight Show," that show. for 22 years. The legend Jay Leno. Here's how it all went down last night. Roll it, Mina.


JIMMY FALLON, HOST, NBC'S "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JIMMY FALLON": Ooh. I think I pulled a hammy on that last one. I think I'm going to have to sub out. Can somebody tag in for me, please?

Thanks for that.

JAY LENO, COMEDIAN: You know, a lot of people think when the Republican field begins to clear, it will be down to Jeb Bush and Donald Trump. Kind of like the race between the tortoise and the bad hare. You know, (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

But as Jimmy mentioned, Bernie Sanders is getting a lot of traction. In fact if Bernie Sanders wins, he will be the first socialist elected president since 2008.

FALLON: Would you want to hang around?

LENO: You know, I can't. I'm lead guest on Colbert, so I'll see you later.

FALLON: Take care, Jay. Nice to see you, buddy.


BOLLING: A little cheap shot there. Look, Fallon, Leno. Greg, your thoughts?

GUTFELD: He's definitely the retired guy with nothing to do. He's purchased every single car on the planet. So he -- and he's bored.

My suggestion to Jay...

GUILFOYLE: It's mean.

GUTFELD: ... is to start a cult. Buy a huge parcel of land somewhere in those states that I can't remember. Declare himself a polygamist prophet, change his name to Jaw Leno, J-A-W. And just live his life as some crazed king.

But don't come back and do stand-up.

BOLLING: Did you like it?

GUILFOYLE: I really love Jay Leno. I always have.

GUTFELD: Jaw Leno.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, Jaw. And he's like Jesus, Yeezus, like Kanye and have his own little cult.

I think he's fantastic. I think he's a class act. He's a funny guy. I really enjoyed his show, and I miss him.

BOLLING: He's coming out -- I think he has a CNBC show.

GUILFOYLE: He does. It's starting, yes.

WILLIAMS: That's what I was going to say. I think it's about cars like you were saying.


WILLIAMS: But I mean it's not that he has nothing to do. He can spend a lot of money. I think Jay Leno is pretty well off.

GUTFELD: He drives those cars that are like 110 years old around town.

GUILFOYLE: So what, Greg? Why do you got to be such a hater?

BOLLING: Dana, you...

GUTFELD: That's who I am.

BOLLING: You know what else he does?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, I forgot. "I hate these people."

BOLLING: Hundreds of appearances a year. Speaking engagements.

PERINO: That's good. Hopefully, he might run into Hillary on a speaking circuit next year if things don't pan out.

GUILFOYLE: But the point is he's a winner.

BOLLING: Yes, he's making a lot of money.

PERINO: And he does -- he does a ton for charity, that guy.

BOLLING: We have one more? Do we not have one more?

Oh, there it is. Finally...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

BOLLING: I like the Cubbies minus 130, and Dana, I have Aaron Rodgers at home going up against a questionable Ram D.

PERINO: A what?

BOLLING: Want a little action with me?

PERINO: I don't know what...

BOLLING: All right. Here's the deal. Here's the deal.

PERINO: What does that mean?

BOLLING: FanDuel, and it would help if you roll that.

GUILFOYLE: Like a fetish.

BOLLING: And DraftKings are under investigation, Juan, by the New York state attorney, state's attorney in New York.

WILLIAMS: Right, right, right.

BOLLING: And saying that their employees are betting against us or sometimes with us. But they have inside information.

WILLIAMS: Well, yes. Apparently, one of the companies I forget which one. One of their employees not only had inside information, but then was putting out that information, bad information and then betting at the other site and made a ton of money.


WILLIAMS: So that's clearly wrong.

But here's the thing, there's no regulation on these guys.

GUTFELD: Oh, my gosh.

WILLIAMS: They're not considered gambling. And they are gambling.

PERINO: And that's why, like, Frank Pallone of New Jersey, the congressman, he's actually called for hearings on this. And Ben Domenech of The Federalist, they've actually written a ton about this there. And every time I read this, I kind of think I should probably learn more about this, but my eyes kind of...

WILLIAMS: Yes, but you know what? Younger people, they are into this.

GUTFELD: Younger people are into a lot of things, Juan, that are way sexier than fantasy football.

WILLIAMS: No, I've got you. That's crazy.

GUTFELD: One of these stories that young people are into. I'm all for that but let's try fantasy curling. Have you done any of that? I've already drafted Kevin Martin, Randy Ferbey and I believe he's from Norway, Andy McMillan.

GUILFOYLE: Nobody...

GUTFELD: Fantasy curling is way more important than fantasy football, Kimberly Guilfoyle.

GUILFOYLE: Nobody is into that.

BOLLING: There probably is fantasy curling in some Norwegian -- some northern...

BOLLING: Fantasy curling parties.

GUILFOYLE: People really love this. I don't know. I'm not into the fantasy. I want the real thing.

GUTFELD: You want to buy your own athlete?

You make me sick.

GUILFOYLE: I don't have to pay for them.

PERINO: What's going to happen? Is somebody going to get busted for this?

BOLLING: The CEO apparently has denied all allegations.

WILLIAMS: They're going to get busted. And guess what, not only going to get busted, it's going to impact that whole industry.

PERINO: So I need to read these stories and understand them.

GUTFELD: No, you don't.

GUILFOYLE: All right. That's a wrap.

BOLLING: "One More Thing" is up next.

GUTFELD: Don't start reading.


GUILFOYLE: Everything is wispy (ph).

GUILFOYLEIt's time now for "One More Thing." Eric, what've you got?

BOLLING: Big day today.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

BOLLING: You know what today is. Today is the 19th -- 19th anniversary of FOX News; 19 years ago they launched. Right now FOX is the No. 1 for 13 years. The most trusted, as Juan pointed out earlier. Up 4,657 percent since launch into the third quarter of this year. The No. 1 cable network. All cable networks, of everyone. First time that's happened.

But check this out from 19 years ago.


BILL O'REILLY, HOST, FOX'S "THE O'REILLY FACTOR": How did it happen? How did television news become so predictable and, in some cases, so boring? Few broadcasts take any chances these days, and most are very politically correct. Well, we're going to try to be different.

SEAN HANNITY, HOST, FOX'S "HANNITY": Welcome to "Hannity & Colmes" on the FOX News Channel. I'm Sean Hannity. Each week night at 9 p.m. Eastern, Alan and I will bring you an intelligent and passionate discussion of the major news issues of the day.


BOLLING: All right. They haven't changed a bit.

Congratulations, FOX News.

GUILFOYLE: So we all look the same, right?

GUTFELD: They really are, sexy men, all of them. Each one a sexy man.

GUILFOYLE: Wow, you just said that out loud. Awkward.

GUTFELD: I know. I say a lot of things out loud. I don't even realize it.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Moving on, Dana Perino.

PERINO: OK. Do you want do see something sweet?


PERINO: OK. OK, this is a little baseball player that took a little time- out from instructions he was getting from his dad, who is also a coach.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on, champ, come on. Run, champ, run!

Go. Go. Go. Go to second. Go to second. Go to second. Go to second. Go to second. You've got to run to second.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What? You got to run to second.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I like you, too.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love you, too. Run to second. Go. Go all the way home. All the way home.




PERINO: That is a moment, if you're a dad, you will never forget that. And now all of you get to see it, too.

GUILFOYLE: That is so cute.

PERINO: I knew that you would love it, Greg.

GUTFELD: I can't stand that video. It makes me sick to my stomach.

GUILFOYLE: That would have been in his "I Hate These People" segment. We've got to go.

BOLLING: You know, when I tell my -- when I tell my son to do something, that's usually not the case.

PERINO: When he was 5 he might have.

GUILFOYLE: Move it or lose it.

GUTFELD: All right, it's time for this thing.


GUTFELD: Greg's Diet Tips.


GUTFELD: You know -- stop it, Kimberly. Later. All right. You know the biggest problem with obesity? High carbohydrate diets, but not just for you, and for me, but also your pets.

Take a look at this rat who's been feeding off of high-carbohydrate pasta for years. Now look how fat that rat is. This is just abuse, I believe.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

GUTFELD: And kind of adorable.

PERINO: He's not even that fat.

GUTFELD: That's a fat rat. The rats that I have at home are very slim.

GUILFOYLE: I want to get a close up. I can be best friends with that rat.

GUTFELD: I'm done with this.

GUILFOYLE: He loves to eat.

GUTFELD: I just like the video.

GUILFOYLE: All right, fine. Enough of you. How about this? The world's oldest woman, 116. I'm going to live that long because we both eat bacon every day. A steady diet of bacon, eggs and grits, uh-huh. And a sign in her kitchen reads, "Bacon makes everything better."

So I have some bacon in honor of Susannah Mushatt Jones right here. Now here's the problem: you can't find grits in New York. They're like, "Oh, no, it's the South," but you can't find it. So Bolling says, like, "Get Cream of Wheat." But that's not the same. So you've got to go to Jacob's Pickles; they have it. So feast on this.

BOLLING: Snapchat is loving your eating segments, by the way.

WILLIAMS: All right, all right. So here's "One More Thing" that you're going to just -- remember. Because a photographer, Harold Albrigtsen, was taking pictures of the Northern lights up in Norway when he was photobombed by a group of humpback whales.



WILLIAMS: Oh, my gosh. It's so spectacular.

GUILFOYLE: You have to hurry up.

WILLIAMS: Anyway, that's it for us. "Special Report"...

GUILFOYLE: That's my turn. That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

WILLIAMS: Yes, there you go.

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