Trump talks foreign policy, tax plan; Looking for answers after Oregon campus shooting

GOP candidate talks Russian aggression, policy failures and refugee crisis on 'Hannity'


This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," October 2, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

SEAN HANNITY, HOST (voice-over):  Tonight, Russia continues to walk all over the United States!  Donald Trump is here to explain how he would deal with Vladimir Putin's power play in Syria.


DONALD TRUMP R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  I'm putting the people on notice that are coming here from Syria as part of this mass migration, if I win, they're going back.  They're going back!

HANNITY:  The Republican front-runner will also weigh in on the growing refugee crisis.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES:  This is something we should politicize.

HANNITY:  And Governor Mike Huckabee slams President Obama for rushing to politicize the Oregon community college massacre.

Plus, reports the gunman targeted Christians.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  He said, Good, because you're a Christian, you're going to see God in just about one second.  And then he shot and killed them.

HANNITY:  Our panel goes inside the mind of a madman. "Hannity" starts right here, right now.


HANNITY:  Welcome to "Hannity."  Tonight, we'll have the latest details on the Oregon community college shooting.  We'll explain how the gunman reportedly targeted Christians.  We'll have reaction to President Obama's outrageous remarks about the tragedy.

But first, Russia continues to embarrass the Obama administration in Syria.  Now, Pentagon officials are telling Fox News that Russian forces carried out yet another wave of air strikes in the war-torn country.  And earlier today, the president essentially threw in the towel by saying he's not going to get into a proxy war with Putin.

Well, now, Russia claims that the move is part of a campaign to defeat ISIS, but Fox News has been reporting that the air raids are hitting non-ISIS targets, including the U.S.-backed rebel forces.

And of course, more conflict in Syria -- well, that likely means more refugees fleeing that country and seeking asylum right here in America.  Now, the administration has already announced that it will take in tens of thousands of these migrants.

Now, Republican front-runner Donald Trump does not think this is a very smart idea.  Take a look at what he said earlier this week.


TRUMP:  I mean, the number I'm hearing -- it's inconceivable!  You know, it started off with 10,000.  The other day, I heard 200,000!  We're going to take in 200,000 Syrians, or wherever they come from.  We have no idea!  There's no identification.  There's no anything!

I'm putting the people on notice that are coming here from Syria as part of this mass migration that if I win -- if I win, they're going back!


HANNITY:  Now, earlier, I sat down with Donald Trump to talk about the situation in Russia and Syria, and of course, Russia targeting U.S.-backed forces there.  Let's take a look.


HANNITY:  Let me ask you -- under the guise -- Vladimir Putin under the guise of going after ISIS -- he didn't attack ISIS and where the high concentration of ISIS fighters are in Syria.  He went after U.S.-backed, CIA-trained, CIA armed anti-Assad forces -- in other words, kind of a proxy attack against the United States.  How would you handle that as president?

TRUMP:  Well, the only thing I have a problem with is that the rebels -- we don't know who they are, Sean.  We really don't.  I mean, I was talking to a general last week about that, and they have no idea who these people are, where they come from.  They might ISIS, for all we know.

And you know, you have Assad, who's a bad guy, but sometimes, the bad guy is better than the people we're going to put in.  You just have to look at what happened in Libya, what happened in Iraq.

And you know, it's hard to get enthusiastic about backing for billions and billions of dollars, backing people that we have no idea who they are. So they talk about the rebels and the free Syria, but you know, this has happened to us over the years.  We've been scammed by many, many people. And I will say this.  You know, Russia will probably be in a quagmire.  They'll be stuck in there for years to come.  If you remember what happened with them with Afghanistan, that broke up the Soviet Union.  They went, essentially, bankrupt fighting in Afghanistan.  And they may very well end up in a quagmire here, too.

What's really even more disconcerting, though, is you look that Iran, because we've made them so wealthy now with $150 billion with the stupid deal that was signed, that with all of the other problems, but think of just the money -- and now they're going in and they're doing the ground fighting.

So you have Russia and Iran that we've driven together.  We have had the dumbest foreign policy people maybe ever in recorded history of our country.  And it's very sad, what's happening.  You just look.  We're being -- you know, we're just being rolled by every country that touches us, every country that sees us.

HANNITY:  To what extent should we be concerned about Vladimir Putin's ambition, restoring Russia's influence as both a global power, dominant world power, now gaining influence in an area that they haven't been in since the early 1970s?  Shouldn't that be stopped now, at this point, considering it's probably going to grow because of the vacuum created by Obama's lack of leadership?

TRUMP:  Well, the only problem is you're going to end up in an area that -- frankly, I want to see us rebuild the United States, our roads, our bridges, our tunnels, our airports.  Everything's falling apart.  We owe $19 trillion.  Now we'll end up in Syria for the next 20 years, like we have in Iraq and Afghanistan, I mean, no matter where we go.

And we don't go for victory.  You know, we don't -- we never fight for victory.  I think it sort of started with Vietnam.  We don't go for victory.  We just keep going and going and going, and nothing ever gets won.

You know, we used to be the country that never lost a war.  Now we never win a war.  And you can start with Iraq and you can start with ISIS and you can -- you know, no matter where you go.

So we haven't had the right leaders.  We haven't had the right thinking or thought process.  But hopefully, if I win, that will change and it'll change quickly, Sean.  I do not like our being bogged down, though, in Syria for the rest of our lives, and it looks to me like that could happen.  And by the way, that could happen very well to Russia, frankly.

HANNITY:  What do you -- but what -- what would you do if -- what happened this past week -- we have a Russian general barging into a U.S. military base, ordering America to stop flying their planes in Syria.  I don't think Donald Trump would take too well to that.

TRUMP:  Well, I'll tell you, it all started this weekend, where you had Putin and Obama meeting.  And Putin has no respect for our president whatsoever.  But it all took place this weekend.  They met.  A day after they meet, he sends troops in and Obama knew nothing about it.  He sends planes in, really, and Obama knew nothing about it.

But what he definitely didn't know about was that Iran was going to be sending troops in.  So now you have Iran with the troops and you have Russia with the airplanes -- you know, with the planes, and you have a total mess.  And Obama knew nothing about it.  And then they get word, Stay out of here, we're taking over.

It's a total lack of respect, and it's over Syria, and it's a terrible situation, Sean.

HANNITY:  You mentioned...

TRUMP:  It should never have gotten this way.

HANNITY:  You mentioned that we are now going to take in 200,000 Syrian Iraqi refugees.  We see what's happening to Europe.  Believe it or not, Germany is now printing their constitution in Arabic for the refugees to learn.

Now, our national intelligence director, James Clapper, also the State Department, has said that both ISIS and al Qaeda will infiltrate the refugee population in an attempt to gain access to America.

What would -- what specifically would you do regarding the refugee crisis?

TRUMP:  Well, first of all, I can't believe they're doing what they're doing in Germany, and they're going to have revolutions in Germany because the German people are not exactly thrilled with what's going on.  And I will say I heard 10,000 people in the United States.  Then I heard 15,000.  The last number I heard was we're taking in 200,000.

HANNITY:  Two hundred thousand, that's correct.

TRUMP:  Now, we owe all of this money to everybody, from China to Japan, to everybody -- $19 trillion.  We're a mess as a country.  We can't do it for a lot of reasons.

But one of the reasons we can't -- I'm watching this migration.  I see a lot of men and I see a lot of strong men, a lot of young, strong men.  I don't see a lot of women.

And it's very interesting.  It could be one of the greatest coups of all time.  These men are coming in, and now we're going to start taking 200,000 people.  We have no idea where they come from.  They could be ISIS.  It could be a plot.  I mean, I don't want to think in terms of conspiracy, but it could be a plot, or at least a lot of them could be wrong.

But we have no idea.  They have no credentials.  We don't know what we're doing, and we're moving in 200,000.  I'm putting -- whoever comes in, I'm putting them on notice we're going to ship them out.

The amazing thing is somebody said to me today, How can you possibly ship them out?  You can't ship that many people out.  I said, Well, they're shipping them in.  Why can't we ship them out?  I mean, it's so ridiculous.  They're actually saying, You can't do it because it's too many people.  You
know, one other thing...

HANNITY:  Yes, we can, actually.  We can.

TRUMP:  ... in the 1950s -- well...


TRUMP:  Hey, Sean, in the 1950s...

HANNITY:  Our national intelligence is saying that ISIS will infiltrate!  And we're still stupid enough to take them in!

TRUMP:  They are going to infiltrate.  And in the 1950s, Dwight Eisenhower moved a million people out, and he moved them out successfully. Now they say we can't do anything.

If we take 200,000 people, and they could very well be ISIS, we have no idea who they are, we are absolutely insane!  This country is going insane!


HANNITY:  And coming up, we'll have more with Donald Trump right after the break.  We'll ask him about his standing in the polls, his tax plan.

Then former governor Mike Huckabee is slamming President Obama for politicizing the tragedy in Oregon.  The 2016 contender -- he'll be here tonight.

Plus, reaction to disturbing reports that the gunman Christian students.  And also, we'll get in the mind of a madman.  Is it a chemical problem, or maybe a spiritual problem?  Straight ahead.



HANNITY:  Welcome back to "Hannity."  And here is more of my interview where 2016 GOP front-runner Donald Trump.


HANNITY:  This is an amazing poll -- 29.1 percent you have in South Carolina, Ben Carson 16, Carly 11, Ted Cruz 8 percent.  All of you are insurgent candidates!  What does that tell us about where we are politically in this country today?

TRUMP:  Well, I think, more than anything else, it tells you that people are very unhappy.  They're tired of looking at what's going on everywhere.  I mean, we don't have victories anymore.  We never win.  We lose on trade.  We lose militarily.  Look at ISIS.  Can you believe this situation?  We lose at every single thing we do as a country.

We lose on "Obama care," something people don't even talk about, and yet their premiums, as you really cover pretty well, are going up 45, 35, 55 percent.  Nobody even talks about it anymore.  They're almost complacent.  They're saying, Hey, my premiums are up 55 percent.  We're losing at every -- and they're tired of it.

So I think we're all doing well because people are just disgusted with what's going on in our country.

HANNITY:  All right, let -- you know something?  I think that moment -- it's not often you hear a presidential candidate -- although real people use the word "BS."  It's not often you hear a candidate -- but I think it's probably true.  They wouldn't be competing with each other for this position if they really loved each other that match.

You've been battling Rubio a little bit.  You've been battling Jeb a little bit.  Do you think that helps you?  You always say you counterpunch. You only respond.  You won't attack first.  Has that been pretty much your rule in life?

TRUMP:  Well, it is my rule -- certainly, it has been my rule here. And every single person that's hit me, I've hit them back, and most of them are out of the race now.  If you look at Rand Paul is down to 1 percent and if you -- I mean, I don't want to even mention their names.  I'm embarrassed to mention their names.  But Perry hit me hard.  And I thought he was sort of a friend of mine.  All of a sudden, he hit me hard because he was dying with this whole situation.  And you just look at Walker, who was really nice and a friend of mine, and then he hit me because he had to pick up, and he's out.

So far, everybody that's hit me is out.  It's called all talk, no action.

HANNITY:  I've said for a couple of years now that we need a new speaker.  I think John Boehner was weak.  I think he was not focused.  He didn't fight.  He would surrender before a battle even started.

There are four bit issues that Republicans, I think, have dealt poorly with.  One on Immigration.  They haven't built a fence.  They funded Obama's executive order on immigration.  Two would be I think they're caving now on Planned Parenthood.  Three would be this Iranian deal.

And they never use their constitutional power, the power that Congress of the purse.  I had Kevin McCarthy on the other night.  I said, Will you use that power?  If you're president, will you urge Republicans to fight, and if it means getting blamed for a government shutdown, to use the power to defund these things which are hurting the country so badly?

TRUMP:  I would.  And one of the things you didn't mention was "Obama care" again.  You know...

HANNITY:  I did say that.

TRUMP: ... people are sort of forgetting about it.  You know, "Obama care" -- they could have ended "Obama care," if they stuck together.  They didn't stick together.

You'd have a certain group that wanted to fight it.  But you know, it's a funny thing.  I've watched these politicians.  They get elected, and they're all full of vim and vigor.  They get down to Washington, they're in these beautiful cathedrals.  They have these gorgeous vaulted ceilings and columns.

And something happens.  They become weak.  They want to stay or -- I don't know what it is. But all of a sudden, they got elected for a reason, they don't do it.

Yes, the answer is we have to do something.  But "Obama care" is another one that you have to put on that list because that could have been broken.

HANNITY:  Yes, that was on my list.

TRUMP:  And obviously, we've got a horrible ruling -- well, we got a horrible two rulings by Justice Roberts...

HANNITY:  Oh!  Awful!

TRUMP:  ... who, by the way, was a Bush appointment -- two horrible rulings -- and a friend of Jeb Bush, actually.  He's the one that pushed him.

But we got two horrible rulings from him.  It should have died twice. And you know, you could almost call it "Roberts care" just as much as "Obama care."  But the -- if the Republicans stuck together, they could have ended it, and they didn't do it...

HANNITY:  Ted Cruz was the only one!

TRUMP:  ... which is a shame.

HANNITY:  Ted Cruz stood alone...

TRUMP:  He did.  He did.

HANNITY:  ... to fulfill the promise that every other one of them made, and he became a pariah.  That -- that -- that speaks volumes about...

TRUMP:  He did.

HANNITY:  ... how timid they are.  Last question.  It's about Hillary. We now discovered the FBI apparently is going to be able to recover the 33,000 deleted e-mails, or at least a good percentage of them.  We know now that the Russians tried on five separate occasions.  We don't know yet if they were successful, hacking into her e-mail account.

And we now know the number of e-mails that were considered classified are more than 400, even though she denied that she ever sent or received classified material.

You have said you don't she gets the nomination.  Biden seems reticent, doesn't want to get into this race.  How do you think this plays out?

TRUMP: Well, I didn't actually say -- I think she probably does.  I actually think she probably does get the nomination.  What I did say is she shouldn't be allowed to have the nomination because what she did is illegal.

What she did is far worse than General Petraeus, who went through hell.  And as you know, he was convicted of a very serious situation, and he did 5 percent of what she did, maybe less than that.

I just don't think that the prosecutors, who are Democrats, are going to do anything about it, which is, you know, pretty serious stuff.  I just don't see it happening from that standpoint.  Many people have said and many scholars have said -- not only on your show, by the way, they've said it everywhere -- that what she did is a criminal act.


TRUMP:  So we'll have to see, but I don't think the prosecutors are going to prosecute.

HANNITY:  All right, last question.  You laid out your plan.  I thought it was a very conservative plan.  I think bringing back the trillions of dollars in repatriation that countries have parked offshore because they don't want to get taxed -- that's a good part of it.

TRUMP:  Right.

HANNITY:  Lowering the corporate rate I think makes America a tax safe haven.  Telling couples that make $50,000 a year, You win.  That's the -- that's the tax return you fill out.

TRUMP:  Right.

HANNITY:  Some have said it's not revenue-neutral.  What is your response to them?

TRUMP:  Well, the economy is going to grow at such a rapid pace.  It's so dynamic.  It's such a good plan.  It's a big reduction in taxes for really everybody.  We get rid of some of the bad loopholes, like the carried interest, which is a little complicated for some people, so we don't have to -- but it's going.  The hedge fund guys benefited.

But the fact is, the economy -- everyone's going to benefit.  We're going to create jobs.  And in addition to that, I'm doing a lot of cost cutting.  We' will cut a lot of the waste that you have in government, which is enormous.

HANNITY:  You mean million-dollar...

TRUMP:  And I don't even have that part in my plan.

HANNITY:  ... soccer fields for -- million-dollar soccer fields for terrorists.  I'm, like, We are dumb!

TRUMP:  You have waste that's beyond.  Beyond.  So we've got a great plan.  It's been really well received by a lot of people.  And we're very proud of it.  It's going to create jobs and it's going to create a great economy and it's going to lower taxes.  So...

HANNITY:  Unsolicited...

TRUMP:  ... I'm very happy with it.

HANNITY:  Unsolicited information.  I like the plan.  I would add energy independence to it because I think that would add a lot of jobs to the economy, too.

TRUMP:  We will have energy independence.  I guarantee you that.


HANNITY:  And coming up next tonight right here on "Hannity"...


OBAMA:  Somebody somewhere will comment and say, Obama politicized this issue.  Well, this is something we should politicize!

HANNITY:  President Obama sinks to yet a new rhetorical low.  2016 GOP hopeful Governor Mike Huckabee is here to weigh in on the president's rhetoric.

Also tonight...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Are you a Christian, he would ask them.  And if you're a Christian, stand up.  And they would stand up, and he said, Good.  Because you're a Christian you're going to see God in just about one second, and then he shot and killed them.


HANNITY:  The Oregon gunman reportedly targeting Christians -- reaction to those shocking details and much more tonight right here on "Hannity."


HANNITY:  And welcome back to "Hannity."  America is in mourning after yesterday's tragic shooting at a community college in Oregon.  Now, tonight, much is still unknown about the deranged gunman who murdered nine people in cold blood.  However, according to multiple accounts, the shooter targeted his victims because of their Christian faith.

Now, unfortunately, in the moments following the shooting, after knowing few details about yesterday's tragedy, the president decided to turn political and lecture America once again about gun control.

Watch this.


OBAMA:  It cannot be this easy for somebody who wants to inflict harm on other people to get his or her hands on a gun.

Somebody somewhere will comment and say, Obama politicized this issue.  Well, this is something we should politicize!


HANNITY:  Without knowing a thing, he rushes to politicize and is proud of it.  Here with reaction, 2016 Republican presidential candidate, former Arkansas governor Mike Huckabee is with us.

Governor, I would argue in a presidency with many rhetorical low points -- you know, social Darwinism, Republicans want dirty air and water or Vice President Biden, They're going to put you all back in chains, throwing Granny over the cliff -- all of those things, this is a new low, even for this president to me, without knowing a thing, without knowing the names of the victims even at the time.  What is your reaction to that?

MIKE HUCKABEE, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE:  Well, it was very offensive, Sean, because we didn't know any of the details.  We later found out that he was targeting Christians.  But at that moment, he once again and goes out and says that we need to change the laws.

And I would just simply say, Mr. President, you talk about this being the 15th time.  Could you tell us what law you would change that would have prevented this?  Because every time he makes a proposal for a law, the clear reality is it would not have prevented it.

I'll tell you what stopped that shooter, Sean.  What stopped that shooter was the police officer who showed up with a gun.  That stopped the shooter.

HANNITY:  It seems, Governor, that we -- that these schools, these gun-free zones that we have, have now -- they have sitting targets, groups of children in some cases.  Why is it such a bad idea to use retired policemen that are armed and put them in our schools and let everybody know that they're there?  And then this way, at least there's some level of defense for those innocent kids that are on campus.

Isn't that a far better solution?  Wouldn't that stop some of these murders?

HUCKABEE:  If it didn't stop them from starting, it certainly would keep them from having minutes -- 10, 15 minutes of uninterrupted murder.  And one of the things about this particular college, about a year ago, they had this very discussion, would they arm the one security officer that would be on the campus?  And they chose not to.  So they have a security officer.  He's unarmed.  That is, you know, a decision that they made.

I think it probably -- maybe in retrospect, I would like to think that they would say it wasn't the best decision.  Would that have stopped the shooter from showing up?  I don't know, but it may have kept him from killing as many people.  And maybe, if the shooter knew that there were going to be a confrontation with a guard with a gun, he might not have done it.

And Sean, I got to just really hit home.  I think one of the reasons -- when the president keeps talking about we need to do something, he's always wanting to tinker with the 2nd Amendment.  I wonder, would he want to tinker with the 1st Amendment because I'm convinced, since this shooter said that he did this because he wanted to be famous, maybe the sheriff was

I agree with you.  Let's not give this guy fame.  Let's not put his picture up.  Let's don't give his name out.  Let's let him be anonymous.  Let's just call him the cowardly murderer.  Let's call him the animal.  Let's call him the savage, but let's not honor him by giving him

HANNITY:  What...

HUCKABEE: ... because I think that encourages other crazy people to do it.

HANNITY:  As a -- as a pastor yourself, or former paster -- I'm not sure if you still are preaching, Governor, but -- but you...

HUCKABEE:  It's been about 25 years, you know, since I...

HANNITY:  OK.  Well, but you know what I mean.

HUCKABEE:  Yes.  Sure.

HANNITY:  I think there's something to glean from, Are you a  Christian?  Stand up.  He shoots them in the head.  You're going to see God in a second.  Other people that don't answer, he shoots them in the leg, or they say another religion.  What do you take from that?

HUCKABEE:  I take it that it's a person who hates Christianity, a person who hates those whose faith gives them peace and tranquility that he doesn't have.  We saw the same kind of thing at the Charleston shooting, where a person specifically targets people in a church.  It wasn't just a random gathering of some garden club.  It was a church.

In this case, he specifically called out.  He didn't say, Are you a Boy Scout?  He didn't call out and say, Do you belong, you know, to some particular organization like the Tea Party?  He specifically said, Are you a Christian?  And if they said yes, they were shot in the head.  It's
clearly a hate crime.

HANNITY:  Analyze for me the president's compulsion.  It seems that it's an impulse for him.  Something happens, he wants to race to politicize it.  I give you the examples -- Republicans are social Darwinists.  They put their party above their country.

He goes out of his way to pit Americans against Americans.  We see it every election cycle.  Republicans don't care about kids with Down syndrome.  They don't care about the elderly.  They want to poison the air and water.  We're going to put you all back in chains, as Biden says.

That to me is like he's divided the whole country!  Isn't this the opposite of what he said he wanted to do when he was first running for president?

HUCKABEE:  Absolutely, it's the opposite.  This is a president that could have been the most conciliatory president in our lifetime, if not the country's history.  Instead, he has chosen to make everything all about us versus them.  And the result is, we've never been so polarized, so divided
as we are right now.

I think when a tragedy happens, the president's primary job is not to try to analyze it, but to try to bring some presence, some comfort, some sense of human perspective to it.  And we saw that.  Look, Bill Clinton was able to do that.

HANNITY:  That's a good point.

HUCKABEE:  Ronald Reagan was able to do that.  George Bush was able to do that.  This president has not been able to simply leave the politics out of it and make it about the country and about the people who were adversely affected and the families left behind to grieve and survive.

HANNITY:  Before the names were known or the bodies were even cold he's advancing an agenda.  Very sad.  Governor, good to see you.  Thanks for being with us.  

HUCKABEE:  Thank you, Sean.  

HANNITY:  Coming up, President Obama doubling down on his outrageous politically charged rhetoric about the tragic shooting in Oregon.  We're going to play you his remarks from earlier today.  We'll get reaction from Bo Dietl, Mark Fuhrman, Eric Guster as they weigh in.

And later tonight, inside the mind of a madman.  What could make a person do something like this?  Is it spiritual?  Is it chemical?  Dr. Keith Ablow, Father Jonathan Morris, they're here with reaction.       



OBAMA:  I'm going to talk about this on a regular basis, and I will politicize it because our inaction is a political decision that we are making.  

It's just you can't kill as many people when you don't have easy access to these kinds of weapons.  


HANNITY:  That was the president earlier today at the White House yet doubling down on his comments about politicizing the Oregon massacre.  Here with reaction, former LAPD detective Mark Fuhrman, former NYPD detective Bo Dietl, and criminal defense attorney Eric Guster.  This is just disgusting.  We didn't even know the people's names.  The bodies weren't even cold.  We know nothing about what happened.  And President pushover with Iran races
out there to be a tough guy and being political.  It is just disgusting.  I don't care where you stand on the issue of guns, to not just appropriately send out sympathies to the families, that's just wrong.  

ERIC GUSTER, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY:  You know I love President Obama.  I voted for him.

HANNITY:  Twice.  

GUSTER:  Twice.  Absolutely.  


GUSTER:  But I disagree with his comments on this issue.  This is not a gun control issue, and especially right after the deaths.  But the investigation has shown so far there was not a law that would have stopped this from happening.  

HANNITY:  Thank you.  

GUSTER:  This is just a person who is crazy.  

HANNITY:  Don't we want people, for example, I think the greatest solution to this, Bo, is guys like you, retired detectives, retired policemen.  Give them a job.  Put them in school.  Let them be the good guys that all the kids know that will protect them if somebody goes in there.  

BO DIETL, FORMER NYPD DETECTIVE:  I think we all agree on one thing.  To be an effective security person, you have to -- you're dealing with firearms regardless of it is a terrorist, if it's a psychopath, you have to be able to deter it.  If you don't have a gun then you're not going to be able to deter it.  And the fact that guy was on a college campus, it's an open campus.  Now it turns out it wasn't a gun-free campus because some of the guys were carrying guns.  

HANNITY:  And they were locked down.

DIETL:  They were locked down by the college telling them not to go outside.  I'll be damned if I'm sitting there with a gun --

HANNITY:  You'd be out there in two seconds.  

DIETL:  With you and with Eric.  He's got a carry permit also.

HANNITY:  You do?

DIETL:  Oh, yes.  I'm a gun owner.  I'm from Alabama.  

HANNITY:  I think people should be responsible gun owners.  I think if you have kids at home, Mark Fuhrman, my kids can't get to my guns.  There are some irresponsible gun owners, but the vast, overwhelming majority are responsible.  Would we be safer to allow security guards, former cops, detectives?  Give them jobs in schools.  Keep these kids safe.  Wouldn't that work?  

MARK FUHRMAN, FORMER LAPD DETECTIVE:  Sure it would work, Sean.  They're just as important as public officials, government officials, court buildings, FBI offices.  You certainly can't go in there without seeing an armed guard somewhere.  

But it usually comes down to cost.  To actually have an armed retired police officer, you're going to have to have a sufficient amount of money.  You're going to have more than one.  You're going to have to have more than two.  It's going to have to be on a shift basis.  Most colleges are 24-hour campuses.  They have live on students.  So the issue comes down to money.  So we need to first tackle that.  

And then the ethics, most colleges are run by liberal-type professors and administrators that don't want anything to do with a police state or a police presence or any kind of enforcement or any strong-arm tactics.  They are sitting ducks, absolutely.  

DIETL:  We do allow security.  What we do is we sprinkle in the unarmed guards.  But then we put an armed person, retired cop or a retired detective, sprinkled in there specifically for an incident like this.  

But I think the point here is, why does this president now capitalize on this, people killed there?  Why didn't he capitalize from his hometown where he was the organizer there?  Chicago, our kids are being killed, 15 dead.  Why isn't he making the capitalization on that?  Because it doesn't adhere to his political agenda.  And that's what it is all about.  It shouldn't be used, because I feel very every kid every kid that gets killed on our streets, and our president should be talking about this and we should ban together and stop the shootings because they're all illegal guns.  They're not NRA guns.  

HANNITY:  Mark, we only have 20 seconds.  Go ahead.  

FUHRMAN:  Sean, what's interesting in Chicago, you have repeat offenders, gang members that are using guns every single day, which you can't attack M.O. and you can't attack the person specifically.  This attack yesterday in Oregon is much like a lone wolf terrorist.  One time
shot and he's dead.  He intended to die before he left that scene.  That was probably his purpose.  

HANNITY:  Eric, you and your fellow libs need to go after your beloved president.  

GUSTER:  This is not a gun control issue, but comparing Chicago to
this one, that's not fair.

HANNITY:  What he did is a rhetorical low even for him.  

DIETL:  Eric is with us.  Let's go shoot.  Come one.

GUSTER:  I'm a good shot.  


HANNITY:  All right, when we come back, we have a lot more coming up tonight right here on "Hannity."


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  Are you a Christian, he would ask them.  And if you're a Christian, stand up.  And they would stand up.  And he said good, because you're a Christian, you're going to see God in just about one second, and then he shot and killed them.  


HANNITY:  Disturbing reports that the Oregon gunman targeting Christians.  We'll go inside the mind of a madman with Dr. Keith Ablow and Father Jonathan Morris.  That's straight ahead.                    

HANNITY:  Welcome back to "Hannity." As details about the Oregon gunman slowly come to light, disturbing reports say that he specifically targeted Christians during his deadly rampage at the community college yesterday.  And one father a student at the college described the scene this way.  Watch this.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  He shot the professor point blank.  One shot, killed him, took him right out of it.  And others had been injured.  And then he -- this man had enough time -- I don't know how much time that lasted before he was able to stand there and start asking people one by one what their religion was.  Are you a Christian, he would ask them.  And if you're a Christian, stand up.  And they would stand up.  And he said, good, because you're a Christian, you're going to see God in just about one second, and then he shot and killed them.  And he kept going down the line doing this to people.  


HANNITY:  Getting in the mind of a madman, from the Fox News Medical A-Team Dr. Keith Ablow is with us, also Fox News contributor Father Jonathan Morris.  Let me ask, it's an obvious thing to me that anybody that has no empathy, sympathy, understanding of what they're doing, by definition they are evil, crazy, whatever adjective we want to use.  Do we all agree on that, Father Morris?  

FATHER JONATHAN MORRIS, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR:  Yes.  I would say there's a difference between evil and crazy, but usually it's a mix of both.  

HANNITY:  OK, and in this case, from what we can see, he had something against Christians, because if he said you were a Christian, he shot you in the head.  If you didn't answer or you said you were another religion, he shot you in the leg.  So there's something here that we don't yet really know about this guy.  

MORRIS:  Sean, from my experience, even just walking down the street, if you run into someone who is mentally deranged or even somebody for example who is drunk, on drugs, when they see, for example, a collar of somebody of religion, it's a trigger.  It's a trigger.  

And I think it's because religion is on the highest level of our hierarchy of values.  In other words it is so deep in the human soul that it provokes and tremendous both positive and negative reactions.  Most people's reactions are very positive.  When they get in a very difficult situation, it's religion that gives them support and peace and comfort.  But sometimes when that mental illness is there, it is just the opposite.  

HANNITY:  If human beings are mind, body, and spirit, and probably I think you're right it's a combination of all things, Dr. Ablow, you come at this more from a medical standpoint.  Is this a psychological imbalance, a medical imbalance?  Are there spiritual factors that you have to consider here?  

DR. KEITH ABLOW, FOX NEWS MEDICAL A-TEAM:  Well, listen, having worked, Sean, for a long time and very hard as a forensic psychiatrist, an adult and adolescent psychiatrist, I can tell you I think evil is illness.  I'm not sure they're different things, because the human capacity for empathy defines humanity.  This wonderful ability we have, to imagine, to almost feel the suffering of others as though it is our own is a uniquely human thing.  And when it is shattered, that's dis-ease.  That's disease.  

We know here that Mercer had a long history of isolating himself.  Now there are writings supposedly attributed to him where he says I'll never have a girlfriend.  I'll die alone.  There are diagnoses that track along with those feelings that make people feel as though they are truly in terrible darkness.  That's also a spiritual crisis.  But it's an illness.  

HANNITY:  But I think most people don't understand the terms or the definition of the terms.  And I'm not speaking down to anybody because it gets complicated here.  I think there is a fine line, not to take it to an extreme, Father Morris, but are we talking about principalities of darkness here?  Is the church, for example, believes in some exorcisms.  Are we talking about a darkness that takes over their soul?  Is it mental illness, chemical imbalance, spiritual forces?  Are those fair all questions?  

MORRIS:  Absolutely fair questions.  I think when we're at our weakest, the devil jumps in, and he is very eager to bring our soul down and to bring other people down with us.  

I think one of the questions we have to ask ourselves is whether or not mental illness takes away all personal responsibility, and I don't think it does, depending on, of course, the degree.  It certainly can take way your ability to choose, to understand the difference between right and wrong.  But there is another point, and I think we've all experienced it, in which maybe our inhibitions are down.  That doesn't mean that we don't have responsibility for our actions.  

HANNITY:  And that brings in a legal question.  And I've never been a big believer in not guilty by reason of insanity because by definition anybody that would commit a horrible crime like this is insane and not normal.  There's an abnormality here.  Dr. Ablow?  

ABLOW:  I venture, Sean, that these questions, whether you're Christian or not, you're going to see God in one minute, you know, for all intents and purposes this guy is captured by some kind of delusional thinking.  He could have been asking people their shoe sizes.  Eleven, you're dead.  Ten, you're not.  None of this makes sense.  It's a product of mental illness.   

HANNITY:  It might give an insight into agenda that he had?  

ABLOW:  An agenda?  

HANNITY:  It sounds anti-Christian to me.  

MORRIS:  Sean, I would agree with you.  And Dr. Ablow, I see where you're going, and I get it that it's not some purely rational, logical thing and therefore I decide I'm going to kill these people.  No.  That is not.  But when you look at the Internet and you see some of the hate groups that are out there against organized religion, what we know at least allegedly based on reports is that he had a disgust for organized religion.  That has effects.  And I think the type of tone that we have, this ability that we have or don't have when we have strong opinions about things for or against organized religion or one religion against the other, well, that has consequences, and there are bigger consequences when we're dealing with people with a mental illness.  

HANNITY:  And one other thing, by the way, Dr. Ablow, they want to do, they're going to find a way, which I why I don't understand the president politicizing this on guns.  

ABLOW:  Oh, my God.  Listen, bottom line is that we are somewhat lost with a leader who says this is about guns.  I have a blog on FoxNews.com that's up that talks about the fact that if this were the president's son, would he be content to say my son who lived in the basement of his mother's house, the shooter, it's OK for him simply not to be able to get a gun.  That's how we were going to treat him?  No, we'd want him treated.  So it's so disingenuous, it's so disrespectful, and it puts us so far behind the 8-ball to have this kind of incompetent leadership in Washington.  I wish we could rebuild the mental health care system.  The guy in the corner office has no idea how to rebuild anything.

HANNITY:  All right, thank you all for being with us, appreciate it.  Again, our thoughts and prayers go out to the families.

When we come back, our "Ask Sean" segment is next.  Also, we need your help with tonight's "Question of the Day" straight ahead.  


HANNITY:  Welcome back to "Hannity."  Time for tonight's "Question of the Day." Do you think it was wrong for President Obama to rush and politicize the Oregon shooting?  I think it was despicable.  We you're your comments.  Go to Facebook.com/SeanHannity, @SeanHannity on Twitter, let us know what you think.  

Now it's time for our "Ask Sean" segment.  You've been sending in questions on Facebook and Twitter.  You like to ask me, I like to answer them, and you get to be a TV star.  Here's tonight's question.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Hi, Sean, it's Kathleen (ph) Ferguson (ph) in Atlanta.  I have a question for you regarding Planned Parenthood.  Why are taxpayers supporting it at all?  I mean, wasn't the point of Obamacare to make health care affordable for everyone including women?  


HANNITY:  What a great connection, Kathleen.  Perfect, dead on the mark.  Yes.  We're supposed to keep our doctors, keep our plans, and save $2,500 per family, per year.  Let's see, millions lost their plans, millions lost their doctors, and we're going to experience on average starting in January a 48 percent rate increase around the country.  You're absolutely right.  Tying them together was brilliant.  You get a gold star today.  

Now, if you have a question for me just go to Twitter @SeanHannity, use the #AskSean, or you can send in a video and we'll put you on TV, which we like to do.

That is all the time we have left this evening.  We hope you'll set your DVR so you never miss an episode.  We take attendance.  It hurts our feelings if you're not here.  Anyway, we hope you have a great weekend. Thanks for being with us.

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