Latest polls suggest big changes in GOP race; Krauthammer calls Trump's criticism of Rubio 'unusual'

A closer look at Donald Trump's attacks against Marco Rubio; Columnist reacts on 'The Kelly File'


This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," September 24, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST, "THE KELLY FILE": Breaking tonight, we have two national polls just out making four released so far this week and, across the board, the trend suggests we're seeing a big change shaping up in the 2016 republican primary.

Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Two new polls out today on top of the two we already saw. First, Quinnipiac released this morning. Trump keeps his lead, but he is down from late August. While Carson, Fiorina, Bush, and Rubio are all gaining strength.

Next, Bloomberg, Trump still number one but standing still at the same 21 he had in August. Again, Carson, Bush, Fiorina and Rubio making strive from this survey. And it is not just that those four are rising right now. Take a look at this graphic showing the averages of all national polling since June 1st. You can see a new top tier taking shape, while you can see Donald Trump is experiencing his largest drop since he emerged as the front-runner. And the headlines are taking note. Here's the Washington Post declaring today, Donald Trump's slide in the polls is beginning to look real.

Politico chimes in, "Trump momentum shows signs of stalling." The Los Angeles Times say, "Donald Trump's peak in the polls might be behind us." And it goes on.

Joining me now, former chief speechwriter to President George W. Bush and Fox News contributor Marc Thiessen and host of Fox News' "MediaBuzz" Howie Kurtz. So, some of those headlines including the one in Politico earned a rebuke from Donald Trump today where he said Politico stinks.


But it sounds just Politico and you tell me, Marc, whether this is a real stall for Donald Trump or what we're seeing.

MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I think what we're seeing is that debate's matter. Donald Trump had a bad debate. Fox News polls show that he had -- according to voters had the worst performance of anyone on the stage by contrast. Fiorina and Rubio had great debates and so the polls are reflecting that. Now, he's dropped, but he hasn't cratered out like Rick Perry did in his time in 2012. He's still got about, you know, 28 to 25 percent of the electorate. And for sure, every other candidate wish they had that number. But he's stalled. And so, if he's going to go beyond that, he's got to start showing some substance. I mean, the problem he faces right now is everybody is excited about the political incorrectness but they want to see some substance from their President. He's got to stop telling us how smart he is and start showing us that he is smart.

KELLY: On the other hand, Howie, we've seen a lot of headlines that this is the end for Trump, or the beginning of the end for Trump. And it hasn't been the end for Trump. And in fact, whenever anybody predicts that, his numbers go back up.

HOWIE KURTZ, FOX NEWS HOST, "MEDIABUZZ": There is some wishful thinking here by the same pundits who spent months predicting Trump's into the demise. Yes, he's leveled off a bit and after the CNN debate and Carson and Fiorina are rising. But I've got to say, you know, the press is starving for a new story line after months of Trump's dominance and happy to devour even a slight Donald decline.

KELLY: Well, what we've seen however, Marc is, you know, four polls now in which, you know, he's either dropped or, you know, the best one for him was a Fox News poll where he went up one point. So, he's, at best, he's doing this right now in the polls. I want to ask you this though because it was an interesting number in the Quinnipiac poll that showed that his numbers of those who would definitely not vote for him are actually higher than his numbers of people who would vote for him. So, Tim Malloy, the assistant director of Quinnipiac polling says, quote, "When the number of Republicans who would definitely not support you is greater than the number who support you, where does that leave you? Welcome to Trump world." Where does that leave you?

THIESSEN: Well, it means that he has a very high floor of loyal supporters and he has a very low ceiling of people where there's going to be heartburn to go above. So, in the extent of the field winnows out, you're going to end people consolidator on other candidate, it will hurt him. But again, the other thing that hurts him, quite frankly, is his debates. I mean, he looked very bad in that debate because he didn't have any substance. There's only so much time in a presidential campaign where you can say my strategy is, I'm smarter than everybody else. I cut great deals. I'm going to get along with Vladimir Putin. I can't tell you my foreign policy plans because I don't want to tip off the enemy. Ronald Reagan told us his foreign policy plans.

Donald Trump can tell us. And so, until he starts getting some substance and show that in the debate, he's going to start hurt himself. And the interesting thing Megyn is, there's an irony here. The Republican Party limited the number of debates because they wanted to protect the GOP front-runner, the establishment frontrunner. Now they're protecting Donald Trump. The more debates we have, the harder it is for him to get the nominee.

KELLY: Howie, the polls all make clear that the Republicans believe Fiorina won that debate. All of them. I mean, virtually all of them. All of the polls and virtually all of the Republicans. And in Quinnipiac they say that by four to one, Republicans says, she beat Trump. She won, he lost. However, and she got a boost in these polls. However, she's way behind him in all of these polls. So, yes, the debates are important, he's still killing her in all of these polls.

KURTZ: And that's what we shouldn't lose sight of. And look Trump does best when he's on offense. So, I don't think it's a coincidence that he's ramping up his offensive against the media again, not just boycotting Fox News again. You mentioned the tweet about Politico, maybe the most dishonest media outlet. And just this morning, he called into CNN and ripped the CNN correspondent as horrible and disgusting because she reported that there were bunch of empty seats at one of his events which he disputes. His supporters loved --

KELLY: The New York Times too.


KELLY: The New York Times reported the same thing and he ripped the reporter as terrible and unfair who saw this same thing the CNN reporter saw.

KURTZ: And his supporters loved when he whacks the media establishment. And the more that the commentators attacked him, the more it's kind of butchers his outside credentials and by the way --

KELLY: But is that still true? Do you believe that's still true, Howie?

KURTZ: I still believe it's true. And I believe in one other thing. Which is, however, he may fluctuate in the polls, the media are paying attention to another set of numbers and those are called ratings. He's still is getting all of this air time that none of the other candidates can. He gets the phone into all of these shows which shows that, you know, he still has a big advantage built in especially by television over the other guys who we're running.

KELLY: The thing is though, Marc. The polls also show that the American people are angry. And that by 72 percent, they don't believe the United States is as great as it once was. That's according to Bloomberg. They are ticked off and many of those people are behind Donald Trump because they feel he gets voice to their anger.

THIESSEN: Absolutely. And they feel betrayed as the Fox News poll showed. They feel betrayed by the Republican Party and by the republican establishment. They feel they haven't done enough to stop Obama's agenda. So, of course. That's why you see Carson, Fiorina and Trump doing well. And this is why I think Fiorina poses a real threat to Trump though of course it hasn't happen in one debate but over a period of time. Is because she is an outsider, but she is substantive and she has shown going mano a mano with him on the debate stage. She can hit him pretty hard. So, we'll see how the other debates, I wish we had more debates because we'd see more.

KELLY: Well, we had another FOX News one coming up in January which I think is going to do very well.


Good to see you both.

KURTZ: Same here Megyn.

KELLY: There's a couple more before that.

Well, as Marco Rubio gains traction on these polls, he and Donald Trump are ramping up a fight that started on debate night and has not stopped. And, wow, did Senator Rubio take it to a new place this evening?

Charles Krauthammer is next on what just happened between these two men.

Plus, the fact checkers have now weighed in on reports that Hillary Clinton was actually the one who started the whole birther controversy. We'll show you what they discovered.

And Carly Fiorina is challenging her critics tonight with a new campaign ad so powerful and so disturbing that the media has all but completely ignored it.

Until tonight, "The Kelly File" will go there with a viewer warning, ahead.


KELLY: Breaking tonight, a new battle on the campaign trail. This time between republican frontrunner Donald Trump and the candidate on the rise Senator Marco Rubio. It started at the last debate when Senator Rubio accused Mr. Trump of lacking foreign policy credentials. The fight has been simmering for days and in just the last hour, we heard from Senator Rubio again. Here's part of the latest exchange starting with Trump earlier tonight.


DONALD TRUMP R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, Marco Rubio sits behind the desk sometimes and he reads stuff he's in, you know, committee. So, that's all he does. I create jobs all day long. I'll know more about all of this than all of them put together and, believe me, we'll have a winning strategy. If Marco Rubio is so good, how come we're doing so badly? Marco Rubio, he's like a kid. He shouldn't be running in this race as far as I'm concern. He is a kid.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, R-FLA., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We need to have someone who has a real facts --

O'REILLY: Are you saying Mr. Trump doesn't have those real thoughts?

RUBIO: Well, if you watched the debate last week, I think that answered itself. When the debate turned to policy, he stood silent for 23 minutes. And that's while he had such a bad debate. That's why he's now reacting the way he is and continuing to offend anyone who criticizes him. H's very thin-skinned obviously. He's very sensitive to criticism. But he can't have a conversation about policy because, quite frankly, he doesn't know anything about policy.


KELLY: Joining us tonight, Roger Stone, a former political advisor to Donald Trump's campaign for president. But we begin with Charles Krauthammer, Fox News contributor and author of the best-selling book "Things that Matter" which is now out in paperback.

Charles, great to see you.


KELLY: I mean, I can feel the Twitter feeds firing up right now on his thin-skinned -- Rubio says, he's thin-skinned, he said, he doesn't know anything about foreign policy. He says, he had a bad debate. And now you hear the line of attack from the other side. From Trump which is, he's a kid, he sits behind the desk all day. He pushes paper while I'm out there creating jobs, and, by the way, he has a terrible attendance record. Your thoughts?

KRAUTHAMMER: Well, first, I just want to show you at the outset, that even though I am a doctor, there will be no anatomical or surgical references in my analysis.

KELLY: I appreciate that.

KRAUTHAMMER: I just want to relay your fears to the very beginning because you never know when it can strike.

KELLY: Correct.

KRAUTHAMMER: You know, look, Trump has a lot of strong suits. Foreign policy is not one of them. And I think that his criticism is rather, well, unusual. All that Marco Rubio does is sit behind a guest and read, well, you can actually learn something from reading. And go to committees where the committee is a foreign relations committee of the Senate where you get witnesses like Henry Kissinger, David Petraeus, George Schultz and others from whom one can learn. They have all been there. They know a lot. They had seen the scene. And they had a lot to impart. And as the concluding part of that argument, which is a paraded a lot of jobs, I'm sure Mr. Trump has created a lot of jobs. But that's a complete non-secretive when we're talking about, what's America to do in Syria?

KELLY: But you know he has an answer for that, too. He says I'm going to appoint the next MacArthur. I don't need to know all of this, myself. Hugh Hewitt asked him, "Do you know the difference between Hamas and Hezbollah. Is that important?" And he said, "It doesn't matter to you yet, but will it?" And he says, "Well, it will matter when it's appropriate. I'll know more about it than you know, believe me."

KRAUTHAMMER: Look, first of all, the idea that we're going to appoint a MacArthur, you know, what an idea. Why didn't anybody else think about that? This is a remarkable innovation in foreign policy to appoint really smart people. That's what presidents have been trying to do for 200 years. Some succeeds, some don't. And to say that it doesn't really matter what I think I learn it up. Well, listen, you know, the other side, the Iranians, the Syrians, ISIS, the Russians, the Chinese will know. And when the President comes into office, he doesn't have a grace period, a honeymoon, that our adversaries in the world are going to grab him. Until he does the reading and the studying and the committee hearings, then Mr. Trump is ridiculing and Marco Rubio. He's going to have to be up to speed and they will be tempted to take advantage of a novice in the Oval Office from day one.

KELLY: What do you make of Trump's line of attack now that he's unleashing that Rubio is just a kid. Because you hear that from, you know, people other than Donald Trump. That Rubio projects -- not only is a young, that he projects young.

KRAUTHAMMER: That was the same criticism of John Kennedy. He was very young. Obama was relatively young. We've had young presidents in our history. That doesn't tell you anything one way or the other. What you care about is the depth of experience and knowledge, irrespective of age. If you've been studying foreign policy, you've been looking at -- you've been thinking about it for a dozen years. That is worth more than birth years. That is how you measured a president. What he knows, what he would think how he would approach to Middle East? How he would approach the challenges from China, from Russia and elsewhere and not odious, I think it's completely irrelevant.

KELLY: Do you think that this -- I mean, this latest dust up suggests that Trump used Rubio as the top none outsider challenger? The main establishment challenger he has.

KRAUTHAMMER: I happen to think if that's his analysis, I think it is probably correct. Because I think Rubio, on paper, has the best presentation to face. Say a Hillary Clinton for the republican side. And in terms of his eloquence depths of knowledge, everybody saw it in the first and the second debate in which he could express himself on practically every issue with the far -- in some cases with passion. So, he is a very presentable candidate in that sense. And he's I think he's likely to emerge out of the so-called establishment lane. But Trump is been pretty rough on everybody else whose been rising in the polls, namely Carly Fiorina and Dr. Carson whom he called an okay doctor. So, so doctor. I often wondered the where exactly -- what exactly is the medical expertise that prepared Trump to make judgment about the scales and the knowledge of a neurosurgeon. I'd like to hear that.


KELLY: It was a funny moment at the debate where Carson turned to Trump after Trump offered his thoughts on vaccines and said, urine, okay --

KRAUTHAMMER: That was his best line of the night. Yes.

KELLY: Dr. Carson. Great to see you. Dr. Krauthammer, always a pleasure.


KELLY: Roger Stone is also with me now. Used to work for a Trump's campaign. Roger, good to see you.


KELLY: So, let's speak about that. Rubio's accusation here that Trump knows nothing he says about foreign policy.

STONE: Yes. Well, that's obviously wrong. Trump, very clearly, has outlined a number of bold strokes in terms of foreign policy. He knows, for example, that we need to rebuild our military. He is a big fleet man. He's the builder. He knows that ISIS needs to be crushed? He knows that we need to re-engage the Russians to improve the balance of power in Europe. He's not going to get down in the weeds like a Washington insider.

KELLY: Is it in the weeds to not know Hamas versus Hezbollah?

STONE: He knows they're both evil. And he's committed to crush them which is more than you can say for the current president.

KELLY: Okay. What about the accusation that you heard from Rubio tonight, he's too thin-skinned. He's think-skinned. He goes after anybody who offers a critique of him valid or invalid.

STONE: He's very tough. There's no question about it. But I think it's time for a tough president. It's time to put aside

KELLY: No, that's not what he was saying. He was saying he's thin- skinned. That, you know --

STONE: Yes, I don't know.

KELLY: Just today, he went after "The New York Times," he went after "Politico," of course he went after Fox as he's been doing. He went after CNN. I mean, all of them are unfair, according to Donald Trump.

STONE: Well, I think there are a lot of voters who believe that career politicians and the elite media are in bed together. Trump is very combative. It is his style. But it is why he has risen in the polls. It's also why interestingly enough he seems to be holding his position in the three early states. So, he continues to be the front-runner. And we have another debate. I have no doubt about him outlining an economic policy and continuing to lay out additional views on foreign policies. But the idea that being in the Florida legislature and then sitting for half a term, a little more than half a term, in the U.S. Senate prepares you to be president, I like Marco Rubio. I think he might be president someday. Donald Trump is running for chief executive. He has run something. He's run a multi-billion dollar company. We're talking about somebody to run the federal government. It would be an Eisenhower style administration. Trump believes in choosing very good people and following their expertise.

KELLY: I want today ask you about Fiorina, too.

STONE: Sure.

KELLY: But I do deny ever being in bed with "Politico," "The New York Times" or CNN. I've never seen one of those in my bed. I swear.

STONE: Me either.

KELLY: Obviously, she's surging in the polls because Republicans believes that she bested everyone in that debate. Do you see that lasting?

STONE: No, I really don't because there's a scrutiny on her record between the lay-offs, the outsourcing now, substantial evidence that she may have skillfully evaded, sanctions, HP do business in Iran. The fact that Barbara Boxer is using these very issues dispatch her so easily in California, I think the bloom is off the rose. Plus, the idea that she's an outsider. She was a chief cheer leader for John McCain. There is the ultimate Washington insider.

KELLY: What do you make of Trump's flat lining in the polls?

STONE: I don't believe he's flat lining. There has been some receding the polls but Megyn it was 10 to one. Ten-on-one in the last debate. Here's the point people don't realize. He has decimated Jeb Bush. Even the Fox poll, when you ask, who won the debate, two percent said that Bush won the debate. So, Jeb Bush who was thought to be the frontrunner, who was thought to be the guy who was going to take on Trump has been destroyed by --

KELLY: But most people believe that Donald Trump lost the debate than anyone else. The republican voters said Donald Trump lost that debate. Not Jeb Bush. Trump.

STONE: Again, this race is still fluid. Trump maintains his lead. I thought he destroyed Bush in the debate and that was his goal.

KELLY: He went down eight points in the CNN poll. He went down eight points in the CNN poll.

STONE: But his goal was to destroy Bush and eliminate him as a contender. I think he's done that.

KELLY: Okay. Roger, it's great to see you.

STONE: Thank you for having me.

KELLY: We appreciate it. Also, tonight, a school district refuses a request to close for the Muslim holidays. And wait until you hear the threat that followed.

Brian Kilmeade is here with that story.

And then, is the Clinton campaign responsible for leaking this controversial picture of President Obama in Muslim dress. Is Hillary Clinton the original birther as some are claiming? Katie Pavlich has a new fact checking report right after this break.


TRUMP: In 2008, she was the original birther. She's the one that started that whole thing. Hillary is the birther.


KELLY: Well, there are new developments tonight about President Obama's faith and country of origin and accusations from the GOP field. Donald Trump and Ben Carson taking heat over the last week on this topic. And now, many are pointing to Hillary Clinton as being the original person to raise these issues. You may recall back in the 2008 campaign, it was early in the race that questions started bubbling up about the real birthplace of then-Senator Barack Obama. The issues fall on what critics called the birther movement and suspicions lingered for a number of voters even after the President produced a Hawaiian birth certificate, long form. While the Democrats have long hammered conservatives for this. There are new suggestions that it all started with Hillary Clinton.

And today, the Associated Press ran its fact check on that claim and news editor Katie Pavlich is here with her own fact-checks. So, it's not just Katie. It's not just Donald Trump, but Senator Ted Cruz too, both are coming out and saying, Hillary was the original so-called birther.

KATIE PAVLICH, TOWNHALL.COM NEWS EDITOR: Right. Well, it's good to see you Megyn. There have been a lot of finger pointing on the campaign trail this week after the issue of where President Obama was brought up again and where he's from. It was brought up at a campaign event in South Carolina yesterday.


TRUMP: In 2008, she was the original birther. She's the one that started that whole thing. Hillary is the birther.


PAVLICH: But, according to the Clinton campaign and Hillary herself, the claim she started the birther movement is just not true.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you or your campaign start the whole birther thing and did you had a confrontation with the President?

HILLARY CLINTON (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: That is -- no. That is so ludicrous, Don. You know, honestly. I just believe that, first of all, it's totally untrue.


PAVLICH: Well, the basis of Trump's comments seemed to come from 2008 "60 Minutes," interview when Clinton was asked about President Obama's religion not birthplace and whether she believed she was a Muslim.



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't believe that Senator Obama is a Muslim?

CLINTON: Of course not. I mean, you know, there is no basis for that. You know, I take him on the basis of what he says and you know, there isn't any reason to doubt that.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you take Senator Obama at his word that he's not a Muslim.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't believe that he's a Muslim and for implying, right.

CLINTON: Yes. No. Why should I? No, there is nothing to base that on. That's what I know.


PAVLICH: But according to a facts check done by the Associated Press, there isn't any clear evidence to show Clinton started the birther movement but rather gave an answer to a question about the President's religion. It should also be noted that because of the bad blood between the Clintons and the Obamas in 2008 democratic primary, the AP did state that some die hard Clinton supporters may have initiated a whisper campaign by anonymously questioning Obama's faith and place of birth.

KELLY: Uh-hm. So just to get it straight. So, Donald Trump was asked by a man in an audience whether Barack Obama is a Muslim. The guy stated he was, he didn't challenge it.


KELLY: Dr. Ben Carson didn't say anything about Obama being a Muslim, he just said he didn't believe that he would support having a Muslim in the White House unless they renounced Sharia Law. So, that's how we sort of got back onto this topic. But now you heard Donald Trump come out and Senator Ted Cruz came out, and they said, hey, Hillary was the original birther. The AP is saying, no he wasn't. She never suggest he was born in Kenya which was what some people were saying. However, the "60 Minutes" interview does suggests maybe -- I don't know.

PAVLICH: She was that that I know off.


KELLY: I have no evidence. The reason it becomes relevant is because when Donald Trump had that exchange with the questionnaire at the rally last Friday, you know, the guy say, he's a Muslim and Trump didn't challenge him. Hillary was outraged. Contrast her outrage last Friday with what we saw in 2008.

PAVLICH: Well, in 2008 --

KELLY: Stand by.


CLINTON: From the beginning, repudiated that kind of rhetoric that level of hatefulness in a questioner in an audience that he was appearing before.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said you take Senator Obama at his word that he's not a Muslim.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't believe that he's a Muslim and for implying, right.

CLINTON: Yes. No. Why should I? No, there is nothing to base that on. That's what I know.


KELLY: All the experts by the way, they say, the voice goes on, no! No!


It's like, you know, the fighter flight is kicking in, I'm in trouble, I'm in trouble.

PAVLICH: Well, yes, I think it's important to point out too when you go back to the democratic primary in 2007, President Obama campaign manager David Plouffe at the time actually called Clinton's accusation of President Obama maybe being born somewhere else. One of the most egregious attacks on the campaign trail on both sides of the political aisle. So the Clinton campaign was being accused by the Obama campaign of initiating this issue. So, it's not Republicans, even though Hillary think it's a good political point to make now, back in 2007, 2008, she certainly was being accused by the Obama campaign of initiating the conversation --


KELLY: There was an article that came out about her campaign out there talking about how she needed to sort of capitalize in Barack Obama's otherness. That she needed to get out there and talk about how she was middle of America had class values unlike this person who had time in Indonesia and so on, which many felt was an exploitation of that narrative, Katie, great to see you.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Good to see you, Megyn.

KELLY: Well, Hillary Clinton also makes news tonight when she sat down for an interview with Lena Dunham of 60 Minutes -- oh no, she's star of the HBO show Girls, we'll show you how that went.

Plus, Carly Fiorina's camp taking on her critics with a powerful and disturbing new ad, and for what may be the first time we will show you that message with a viewer warning. We want to tell you it is disturbing, next.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is about the character of our nation, and if we will not stand up and force President Obama to -- shame on him.



KELLY: Breaking tonight, Pope Francis just wrapping up his second day in the United States with evening prayers at New York's famed St. Patrick's Cathedral, where he was met by cheering crowds and spoke to the faithful. Earlier in the day, the pontiff was in our nation's capital where he gave a rousing speech before a joint meeting of Congress that was carried across the country.

What got less attention, the surprise visit Pope Francis made to the Little Sisters of the Poor, they are nuns who are forced by the Obama administration to sign papers allowing coverage for the cost of birth control. This as Republican Carly Fiorina used today to call out Hillary Clinton for supporting Planned Parenthood, despite the fact that it provides abortions, suggesting the organization is butchering babies. That's the allegation by Fiorina. And she points to undercover videos that have surfaced from Planned Parenthood as evidence. Now Fiorina's critics have pounced on her accusations, saying its blatant misrepresentations, saying the videos she cited including those during the debates showed no such thing about Planned Parenthood and its practices. But Fiorina and her supporters are not backing down, and yesterday they released a powerful -- and we must warn you incredibly graphic video to bring home her point. Again, we're going to show this one time. It is disturbing. We're not going to show it again, so if you want to remove your children now is the time to do that. It's a one minute ad. Here it is.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, how are you going to run for President and you're going to say this is what I saw in the video when everyone -- it doesn't exist.

CARLY FIORINA, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Anyone who has watched this video tape, I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama to watch these tapes. A fully formed fetus on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking, while someone says we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain. This is about the character of our nation and if we will not stand up and force President Obama to de-fund this bill, shame on them.


KELLY: Joining us now, Robert Zimmerman, a Democratic National Committee Member from New York and Clinton donor, and Dana Loesch, Host of Dana on the Blaze TV. We're going to start tonight with Dana. Dana, thank you for being here, it's so dark. We debated a fair amount internally. What do we show of this ad? She's put it out there and wants the country to look at what actually happens. The pushback is those pictures of those babies have not been proven to be from Planned Parenthood at all, that we don't even know if those babies were aborted or the subject of miscarriages. And it's a misrepresentation to say the talking about what was going to be done to them matched up with those specific videos.

DANA LOESCH, "DANA ON THE BLAZE" HOST: And Megyn, thanks for having me, it's not a misrepresentation, though, of what Planned Parenthood has actually been doing all of these years, publicly funded by the way. And it's not a representation of other footage that at ten total, hours of footage in full put up on the internet and there are other very graphic clips of things that have happened inside these facilities. We all remember the image of the Pyrex pie plate, Megyn, that was sitting there and someone holds up an infant's severed arm in front of that camera that is an image that you can not get out of your mind. So this is just one illustration of what was going on in these clinics and what was going on with these harvesters, like stem express etcetera. There is much more in these tapes and I'm glad that her attention to it is finally bringing it up for a national discussion in mainstream media.

KELLY: You know no one showed it. And I understand why, it's terribly graphic, it's deeply disturbing, it's not something you can pop on the air in the middle of the day without a warning as -- you know hey, look what Carly Fiorina's doing, but that's the thing about this issue is that the life side to make their point offers up these terribly graphic images, and it's hard to put them on TV. And many believe they need to do that if they really want to be heard. That's why it was so shocking to hear Carly Fiorina describe the video that she did at the debate. Sorry, did you get that, Dana?


LOESCH: You know I think it is. And Megyn, honestly, I think that one of the reasons that we have -- there are a lot of people questioning the concept of these videos, it's like look, let's remove the politics from what is actually happening here. You are having a clinic that offers you know maybe a fracture of what community health centers offer in terms of women's healthcare, and they're engaging in the questionably felonious practice of parting out kids as though they're just junk or cars and you're taking them to the junkyard. People -- I think they're reacting to these videos this way because they can't believe that this is happening. They're still trying to process the fact that -- oh my gosh, that one video clip where they're showing appendages, and they're showing an actual brain and a cranium, that's real, that's not movie prop magic. And so I -- they -- you have to show people this is the horror that is taking place. This is really happening right now in the United States of America, and we have to show it so that people know what we're talking about. So we can't hide it away and act like its just a policy discussion.

KELLY: It's a powerful, Dana, thank you.

LOESCH: Thank you, Megyn.

KELLY: Robert Zimmerman is here as well, Robert, good to see you. So this is -- what's interesting about this from a politics standpoint is Fiorina -- and we saw this with Rand Paul earlier in this campaign are taking a different tactic than we've seen Republicans in the past. Democrats have successfully turned this debate to GOP-ers don't like birth control, and they want to deprive a woman of her rights, and they're kind of turning it back in this way. Do you think it's effective?

ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DNC COMMITTEE MEMBER FROM NY: You know this issue quite honestly is so above politics. If you look at those images of course, they're graphic and they're haunting, and so deeply disturbing. It's also important to point out that the graphic images have no connection to Planned Parenthood at all. And has been documented by Chris Wallace of Fox News, the Wall Street Journal, and Jonah Goldberg of the National Review, Carly Fiorina made up the video that she so dramatically described during her public and national debate.


KELLY: There's a woman who worked in connection with this who talked about them actually doing this. And they laid in file video if you will, it wasn't from Planned Parenthood. That's where the discrepancy is.


KELLY: The average viewer at home has seen those images and thinking -- they don't care that it came from a different source.

ZIMMERMAN: I'll tell you why it does matter, and that is because an important -- policy debate, an important discussion in America, it's important to understand that Planned Parenthood's federal funds don't in any way, support abortion activities or any sort of abortion activities at all. The federal funding goes to breast cancer research, it goes to teaching individuals about birth control activities, educating people about aborting sexually-transmitted diseases and curing them. That is where the federal funds go, it's against the law to use federal funds for any other activity. And Carly Fiorina's strategy of advocating closing the government down, yet federal funds are not -- Planned Parenthood has been condemned even by the National Right to Life Leader, Carol De Bias. So I think it's important to have an honest discussion about this issue.

KELLY: But do you think that they need the Democrats like Hillary needs to get back to the message of you know safe, legal, and rare, because she sent out a tweet today talking about the Pope saying thank you, we have much to do to defend the rights and dignity of all, and many people immediately thought of if you say all, you should mean babies, too.

ZIMMERMAN: It has been the policy of the Democratic Party, in fact the policy of a majority of Americans to make sure that when a woman makes her reproductive choices, it's between her and her doctor. If it's abortion it's safe, legal, and rare, it's a very traumatic and difficult decision for any woman to confront and it shouldn't be dictated by the government, it should be done by a woman in consultation with her doctor. That's the focus.

KELLY: Robert, always great to see you, thank you.

ZIMMERMAN: Good to be with you, thank you, Megyn.

KELLY: Also tonight, a school district refuses a request to close for the Muslim holiday and wait until you hear the threat that followed.

And as Hillary Clinton takes fire to come clean on her email scandal, she gives a one on one interview to the star of the HBO show Girls. Brian Kilmeade has some thoughts on that next.


KELLY: A school board meeting in Jersey City, New Jersey getting national attention this week over the issue of school holidays, the board decided not to close the school for a Muslim holiday and some Muslim parents where not happy, watch.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Doing this at this point with six days notice, for this upcoming holiday is going to cause undo hardship on possibly 5 or 10,000 people who are going have to scramble to get coverage for the children.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's discrimination.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My child should be able to celebrate the holidays.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We feel alienated from the Board of Education, we feel alienated from this system.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're no longer the minority, that's clear from tonight. We're going to be majority soon.


KELLY: Joining me now Brian Kilmeade, co-host of Fox and Friends and Host of Kilmeade and Friends Radio Show. So it wasn't a threat, they're basically saying we are the majority now. You need to listen to us because they wanted a Muslim holiday off, but six days in advance of the actual holiday.

BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX AND FRIENDS CO-HOST: Right. And the thing is they first said ok, you could do that. Then t Jewish man got up and said...


KILMEADE: Make this up in six days, you're going to inconvenience 10 to 15,000 families and all of a sudden have got to babysitters, have got to off or whatever. So the emotions were running extremely high. This is basically because some people like New York City have decided this year to start recognizing this Muslim holiday, which is I don't know -- but it's called the Festival of Sacrifice. So they're doing that in New York City, your beloved Syracuse does something -- and what they said is you could have religious. You pick that day. You're not going to be punished. It's not going to be abstinence. So pick that day.

KELLY: Right, and then you can take off and it's fine. They wanted the whole school to be shut down.

KILMEADE: Why? Because they're not the majority, in fact the last time we did the census was 2003. They were two percent of the area. Now on top of that, there's a little bitterness too because it's no secret that you know two of the hijackers are also from Jersey City. That's an area ripe with tension.

KELLY: Well, but I mean there is no one suggesting that these Muslims are -- but the problem is, you can't -- if we give every single religion schools off, there'd never be school. (Inaudible) We're going to get to the point where you have to have half a school year off or not acknowledge any holidays anymore. They say okay, and then forget Christmas. Forget it.

KILMEADE: Right. What they did is lengthen the year. They were going to lengthen the school year by one day.

KELLY: All right, let's move on to a happier topic, which is John Boehner was crying again today.


KILMEADE: It was distracting.


KILMEADE: Thirty years he's been trying to get -- since he was a Congressman, but the Pope spoke so slow and so eloquently. I found myself -- my mind wandering a little bit. I find myself staring at the speaker because I know he was about to sneeze, he had allergies or was about to cry.

KELLY: I'd much rather see that moved to tears by genuine emotion than by (Inaudible) asleep again. That woman needs to take some no-doze before these events.

KILMEADE: We don't want to get into sponsorship situation. But there is a little bit of a problem nodding off. This is the Pope.


KELLY: He's full of forgiveness, on the bright side.

Up next, Hillary Clinton Lena Dunham.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you consider yourself a feminist?

CLINTON: Yes, absolutely. You know, I'm always a little bit puzzled when any woman, whatever age, but particularly a young woman says something like -- you've heard it -- something like, well, I believe in equal rights but I'm not a feminist.


KELLY: Is it over?

KILMEADE: Yes, it's over. This is her. This is her between the two ferns. Barack Obama did his interview. This is the female version of that where he sits down with Lena Dunham who doesn't really have a show but is funny at 29.

KELLY: She's an actress.

KILMEADE: She's an actress. And she asks tough question like are you a feminist. Feminists are people that want equality. She also does a very colorful joke about Lenny Kravitz' crotch breaking open which she plays a role in that.

KELLY: Ok. Here's the interesting about Hillary's answer because she goes on and she says I don't understand these people who say I believe in equal rights but I'm not a feminist. A feminist by definition is someone who believes in equal rights. The problem she doesn't understand is that that word feminist has been co-opted by people like Gloria Steinham, and what many people think when they think of feminist is Gloria Steinham holding up that sign with the shirt. She had the shirt on. That's what it was. Remember this? Arms up. Look? Celebrating her abortion, a lot of people don't want to associate with that.

KILMEADE: Right, but I did look it up because you have me doing this thing called research, turns out that definition is right. Hillary was right. It is just somebody wants equal rights, not more rights.

KELLY: That's her definition of feminism. That's not the definition for many people. Mona Lisa, who was she?

KILMEADE: Well, it turns out her name was Lisa Gherardini. Think they found her remains, just an ankle and a femur. Someone left the door open on the crypt so humidity got in and everybody rotted.

KELLY: I don't know what we've learned in this segment but I got to go, great to see you, Brian Kilmeade.


KELLY: On that last story, researchers think they now know who Mona Lisa was, Italian noblewoman Lisa Gherardini, the wife of a merchant who lived near DaVinci. They tried to test her family DNA but it got messed. I'm Megyn Kelly. We'll see you tomorrow.

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