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The Five

Was Trump's foreign policy grilling fair or a set up?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 4, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling along with Jedediah Bila, Geraldo Rivera, Meghan McCain and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Was this question fair, or was Radio Host Hugh Hewitt, trying to intentionally trip up Donald Trump last night?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUGH HEWITT, THE HUGH HEWITT SHOW HOST: Are you familiar with General Soleimani? He runs the Quds Forces.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Yes, OK, right.

HEWITT: Do you expect his behavior.

TRUMP: I think the Kurds, by the way, have been horribly mistreated by us.

HEWITT: No, not the Kurds, the Quds Forces, the Iranian Revolutionary Guards Quds Forces.

TRUMP: Yes.

HEWITT: The bad guys.

TRUMP: Yes, right.

HEWITT: Do you expect his behavior to change as a result?

TRUMP: Oh, I thought you said Kurds, Kurds.

HEWITT: No. I'm looking for the next Commander-in-Chief, to know who Hassan Nasrallah is, and Zawahiri, and al-Julani, and al- Baghdadi.

TRUMP: Those are like history questions. Do you know this one, do you know that one?

HEWITT: I don't believe in gotcha questions and I'm not trying to, you know, quiz you on who the worst guy in the world is.

TRUMP: Well, that is a gotcha question, though. The day after the election, I'll know more about it than you will ever know.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: And this morning, in his trademark style, Donald Trump took it to Hewitt.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: When you say Quds versus Kurds, I thought he said Kurds, this third- rate radio announcer that I did his show, and it was like, "got you, got you got you -- every question was do I know this one.

DAVID IGNATIUS, WASHINGTON POST: Yeah.

TRUMP: And that one and.

IGNATIUS: Yeah.

TRUMP: You know he's like he worked hard on that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: And then, Hewitt's response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HEWITT: I asked him about gotcha questions because I hate them. In the course of the interview, which actually went 20 minutes and Donald Trump did very well throughout most of that interview, including some very tricky questions about China and Israel. But come back with the third- rate announcer, that's my Trump tattoo. You know, you earn that in this business. And I'm always interested in critiques. I take them under advisement.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: All right, Geraldo. Hugh Hewitt says he's not interested in gotcha questions. He's well-known in the industry for gotcha questions.

GERALDO RIVERA, "GERALDO RIVERA REPORTS" HOST: I don't know Hugh Hewitt from hole in the wall, but I do know a gotcha question when I see one, and that was a gotcha question. I mean, what is this, celebrity jeopardy? You know it -- Karen Hughes, who was press secretary for George W. Bush while he was running against Al Gore, 1999 she's the one that coined that phrase, "What is this, jeopardy?" And she told candidate George Bush, who became that Bush, 43, not to answer those kinds of questions. Who's the president of Pakistan?

BOLLING: Right.

RIVERA: What form of government do they have in Kazakhstan? You know, how many countries are there in South America? You know those are fine questions for a quiz show, and he'll have a briefing paper when the time comers. And Quds and Kurds and you know, I (inaudible) with Donald on this. Maybe he should not have gone nuclear. Meghan can talk more about Trump's tendency to go nuclear, but I really think that in this case, Trump is right.

BOLLING: You know, Meghan, up until -- when Hugh Hewitt said, "Do you know General Soleimani, and he's the general of the Quds" and then Trump thought he said Kurds. Everything seemed to be fine up until then. And then he started, as Geraldo points out, rattling off names of the terrorist leaders. Then it kind of took a turn for the south. Was that part fair?

MEGHAN MCCAIN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, first of all, I would like to say I love it, anytime Trump has a meltdown. People ask me my response because my family's been in the chain of fire. I will say Carly Fiorina went on this same show, answered it very eloquently, knew all the answers to the questions. Debatably, it's a gotcha question. I didn't think so. My concern with Donald Trump is this. I have real-life experience on the campaign trail. I dedicated almost two years of my life in my 20s. This is the glory time. This is the fun time. He can answer any interview question he wants. It's going to get a lot harder, a lot more intense, and I question his capacity to be able to stand up to the heat under fire. He's going to have to do an interview question with a liberal person. He's doing a CNN debate on September 16th with this very man.

BOLLING: Greg, you know these candidates, they pick and choose who they go on shows with, whether it's Fox or CNN -- or MSNBC on TV or radio as well. There are known candidates that will not go on known radio shows.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Yeah, I mean, but the thing is -- I mean, it -- he misheard. And that's a huge story. It's a big story.

MCCAIN: Yeah.

GUTFELD: I'm glad we opened with it because.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I mean.

RIVERA: Hello?

GUTFELD: Look, look, all the questions are going to be gotcha questions.

MCCAIN: Yeah.

GUTFELD: When you're running for president. So you got to get used to it. You got to man up and deal with it. But here's the real -- here's the crux to me. Fans are Trump -- fans of Trump are not asking him to extend -- to expand the effort. You know, they like him as is. In fact, that's why when you criticize Trump, they get very upset. They take it personally because they say, "Look, we like the fact that Trump doesn't care and that Trump's going to get this stuff done." This kind of stuff is not important to the Trump contingency, but I kind of want both. I want the personality, the leadership, but I also want a candidate that will extend the effort and go the extra mile and provide some aspirational leadership and not just say the same things that your fan base already has. The next step for Donald Trump is to stop convincing the hardcore fans and start converting.

MCCAIN: Yeah.

GUTFELD: The rest of America that. And that requires him to put in the effort. And actually, you know -- think about these things. Think about foreign policy. He is -- but I will defend him on this one. And strongly, you can learn those things.

MCCAIN: Yeah.

JEDEDIAH BILA, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes.

GUTFELD: There are some things you can't learn, and that's leadership. And Donald's a natural leader.

MCCAIN: Look, can I ask you a question?

BILA: Yes.

MCCAIN: When you see Carly Fiorina answer it, in my opinion very outcome.

RIVERA: I don't think she answered it. I disagree with you on her answer.

MCCAIN: OK. I thought she -- I actually thought she answered it very well.

RIVERA: She was, for instance, and I don't mean to interrupt. She was asked, "What's the difference between Hamas and Hezbollah?" She said, "Hamas is based in the Palestinian territory.

MCCAIN: She did a much better.

RIVERA: Hezbollah is based in Beirut. That is true, but she didn't mention Hezbollah is Shiite and align with Iran. Hamas is.

MCCAIN: But I'm saying was if running for president.

RIVERA: Sunni, and there are more align with al-Qaeda and ISIS.

MCCAIN: If running for president, and your answer is, "This is a gotcha question to me, it looks rookie."

(CROSSTALK)

MCCAIN: That's all I'm saying.

BILA: I'm just.

BOLLING: Bring Jed -- and Jed.

BILA: Yeah.

BOLLING: This is really important, that Donald Trump sat down with Hugh Hewitt. There are other candidates that will not sit down with him, in.

BILA: Sure.

BOLLING: Especially, in advance of the CNN debate, which Hugh Hewitt will be one of the questions.

BILA: Yeah.

BOLLING: Does he deserve points -- credit, for sitting down with.

BILA: She.

BOLLING: Could be perceive as hostile question?

BILA: Of course he does. And of course, it was a gotcha question. I guarantee you that most of the candidates would not have answered that question well. Bottom line is, I'm gonna tell you. People don't care. People don't care if your presidential candidate can name all of these people, these leaders of Hezbollah, al-Qaeda. What they care about is that candidate's view on global terrorism. What their policy would be and whether or not they can trust that guy or that woman, to hire the right military advisers and the right people backed up by the right ideology to see that policy through. Because we all know that a president gets into office and he relies on other people. Whether or not that person knows the names of all these people doesn't matter. What matters is whether or not they want to take out terrorism. Whether or not, they have the right people around them, fixated in the right places to make that happen.

MCCAIN: Right. He might be the nominee going up against the.

BILA: Yeah.

MCCAIN: Previous secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, if he's going up against her in a debate.

BILA: Sure.

MCCAIN: Somebody's optics is going to really lethal to the Republican Party.

BILA: I honestly don't know how well she's gonna answer those questions. And why did the fact that she did a really terrible job as secretary of state.

(CROSSTALK)

MCCAIN: That's fair enough.

BILA: Even if she answers those questions well. I guarantee you there are gonna be questions that she can't handle well, which involve a lot of her record and a lot of other (inaudible). And you know what? If you're not going to be tough on terrorism, I don't care if you know the leaders of everyone.

RIVERA: What's the.

BILA: I don't care. I don't care about all that stuff. If you're not gonna in.

BOLLING: Can you imagine if Donald Trump turn around and.

BILA: And get this guy and have a solid policy, what's the difference?

BOLLING: He was asked that question on the debate stage at CNN. He turns around and said, "How about if run a few names of business and CEOs.

BILA: Sure, common sense knowledge.

BOLLING: And it won't spend their.

BILA: Exactly.

BOLLING: Because it was - then he spend the last 30 or 40 years in the business world.

MCCAIN: Because I don't think business, CEOs are trying to blow up America, like the leader of ISIS.

BOLLING: Wouldn't -- I would.

MCCAIN: I'm just saying. There is a difference.

BOLLING: If -- I'm not making that assumption either. I'm simply saying that, as Greg points out, yeah, you got plenty of time to Learn -- figure out what the prior government of.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: Kazakhstan is.

GUTFELD: I mean, look. I -- you know cows, they chew cud. And cows then make curds. That's how much I know.

(LAUGHTER)

BILA: Yeah.

RIVERA: That's good.

BOLLING: That is currently enough to get.

BILA: Well said, Greg.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Let me hear on The Five.

BILA: Well done.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: To another interview in the headlines today, Hillary Clinton sat down for a rare national interview. Only the third, since launching her campaign and she was defiant as ever, about her server scandal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREA MITCHELL, MSNBC HOST: I don't think there's any president, for anyone, just relying on a personal e-mail system at your level of government.

HILLARY CLINTON, D-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This was fully above board. People knew I was using a personal e-mail. I did it for convenience. I sent e- mails that I thought were work-related to people's dot gov accounts. The vast majority were captured by the system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Well, she said it doesn't make her feel good. That people don't believe her e-mail answers, but she is sorry about all that. Here is she.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MITCHELL: Do you want to apologize to the American people for the choice you made?

CLINTON: Well, it wasn't the best choice. And I certainly have said that, I will continue to say that.

MITCHELL: What is this concern you -- that people don't trust your answers on this?

CLINTON: Well, certainly it doesn't make me feel good. At the end of the day, I am sorry that this has been confusing to people and has raised a lot of questions.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: I love it.

BOLLING: Sorry about the confusion.

GUTFELD: Yeah, that is.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Not sorry about screwing up.

GUTFELD: She's amazing. I love -- I'm starting to love her. If you look at her job history, you got the Russian reset. You got Benghazi. You got the server. Her resume' is full of more disasters than an Irwin Allen film festival.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: And, she's like -- she has the opposite of the Midas touch. She's like the anti-Trump. Wherever she goes, her incompetence is contagious. She's like measles. And -- I don't know. And also, she -- when she retweeted, when she -- when she tweets, she quotes compliments about herself, which I find hilarious.

BOLLING: Jed, she said.

RIVERA: I think a lot of people.

BOLLING: She just.

RIVERA: Only repeat the good stuff.

BOLLING: She just wasn't thinking.

BILA: Yeah, and that's supposed to be an acceptable answer for the former secretary of state and someone who -- I mean, she's been in -- she's been in the politics for a long time.

RIVERA: That's not a.

BILA: It's that gonna be fine?

MCCAIN: But I think - but I think.

BILA: No, I'm sorry. Look, Geraldo, look. She's grossly -- if nothing else, if not corrupt, then this woman is grossly incompetent. You can't tell me.

RIVERA: But this is what she said.

BILA: She's smart.

RIVERA: All right.

BILA: She knew the rules.

RIVERA: Can you hold up that with you.

MCCAIN: I think that it is a bad spin.

BILA: She wasn't supposed to be communicated this way.

RIVERA: Can you hold up your Blackberry.

MCCAIN: No, I think she's lying.

RIVERA: Eric, hold up.

MCCAIN: I think she's lying.

RIVERA: Hold up two.

MCCAIN: I think it's really a bad spin.

RIVERA: Here is Eric Bolling, like many people has a business personal device and a.

BILA: Yeah.

MCCAIN: How is this relevant?

(LAUGHTER)

MCCAIN: This is nothing to do with anything.

RIVERA: Because Hillary Clinton has only one.

MCCAIN: But he's -- but he's not.

RIVERA: Like Geraldo Rivera.

BILA: Eric has -- I mean, not the same.

RIVERA: Like Geraldo Rivera, Hillary Clinton only has one.

MCCAIN: This is not relevant.

RIVERA: No, I have business on here.

MCCAIN: This is not. I'm sorry.

RIVERA: I have my dirty laundry on here.

BILA: Geraldo, I'm willing to wait.

RIVERA: And everything on here.

BILA: I am willing to bet that Eric Bolling does not potentially have national security information that could put us on risk.

RIVERA: If he -- if he hasn't.

BOLLING: You have no idea Jedediah.

(CROSSTALK)

MCCAIN: We can bring out.

BOLLING: Geraldo, Geraldo.

MCCAIN: We can bring out Eric's props all day long.

BOLLING: Can we?

MCCAIN: No disrespect, but she's lying. This is very bad spin. Queen Hillary.

RIVERA: I thought she -- I thought (inaudible).

MCCAIN: She's irritated that she's not doing well (ph). The number one thing Americans think of what Hillary Clinton is liar. She's spinning. She's running scared.

BOLLING: But how about this.

MCCAIN: We all enjoy watching.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: We can drill for oil, she spins so much.

RIVERA: Very nice.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: With the feet (ph).

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: And think about this for a minute, 25 percent of her e-mails are out now. That means 75 percent are left to go, Geraldo. This is drip, drip, drip.

RIVERA: That is the problem.

BOLLING: Bad news for her.

RIVERA: That is why her unfavorable are so high because of the drip, drip, drip, but that is the process now. At the end of the dripping, like the fake stand down order in Benghazi, this will be a fake scandal, will have done it's.

BILA: No.

RIVERA: Its job.

MCCAIN: Benghazi is a fake scandal?

RIVERA: It will deteriorate her quality of a candidate.

MCCAIN: Benghazi is a fake scandal?

RIVERA: Benghazi, in terms of stand down.

MCCAIN: A fake scandal.

RIVERA: It was an absolute.

MCCAIN: Tell that to the families of the.

RIVERA: Don't give me that. Don't give me that family stuff.

MCCAIN: Don't give me that?

RIVERA: If we know that.

MCCAIN: Don't give you that?

RIVERA: There was no stand down order in Benghazi.

MCCAIN: Don't give you that?

RIVERA: Has ever given, we know that and she was battered over the head with that for months.

GUTFELD: But.

MCCAIN: OK.

GUTFELD: But that's not made to be promise. She claims the video.

RIVERA: The families of the victims were.

MCCAIN: I'm sorry.

GUTFELD: She lied. She went to the families and claims the video.

RIVERA: That's a different -- one.

GUTFELD: Oh, you do.

RIVERA: I'm very specific. We basically, alleged that this woman and the man she was working for Barack Obama, stood by idly when these four people were murdered did nothing, which was a lie.

MCCAIN: When he.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: We never apologized to her for that.

GUTFELD: The lie is the video.

MCCAIN: You know what.

GUTFELD: The lie is the video.

MCCAIN: Yeah.

GUTFELD: The lie is the video.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: That is another lie, another lesser lie.

BOLLING: We would still love to hear from General Ham. Can we?

MCCAIN: I can't believe that he was said that. I mean.

BOLLING: Can we stand this for a second?

MCCAIN: Yes.

BOLLING: So this -- Jedediah.

BILA: Yeah.

BOLLING: These e-mails will.

BILA: Yeah.

BOLLING: Will likely be released into these primaries. I mean is this time thing that she eventually says, enough is enough? I can't take this thing?

BILA: I think the democrats are most worried about the way she's handled the issue, that the way she's handled it. I mean, look at this -- this is not an apology. This is not taking responsibility. Once again, he's horrifically unlikable -- a. And b, she's not coming out and saying, I shouldn't have done this.

RIVERA: This is unlikeable.

BILA: This wouldn't not proper protocol.

RIVERA: Where is it not unlikeable?

BILA: Look at the numbers.

RIVERA: I think she is.

BOLLING: Ask her husband.

BILA: Look at her performance, she's unlikable.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: You just characterized her performance with Andrea Mitchell?

BILA: But she is.

RIVERA: That's the unlikeable.

BILA: That's why people don't.

RIVERA: I found her totally likeable.

BILA: No. People don't trust her because they don't believe that she is lying.

MCCAIN: Who is lying? I mean.

BILA: She withheld information.

RIVERA: She has a nice outfit along.

BILA: She had -- she didn't want to hand down her server. She has been fighting this.

BOLLING: Geraldo.

BILA: Every step of the way.

BOLLING: Her favorables -- she's underwater in her favorables and they've done nothing but slide. Her unfavorables have done nothing but going up and her favorable.

MCCAIN: They wouldn't.

BOLLING: Been going down.

GUTFELD: She put the -- I'll get the smug.

MCCAIN: They wouldn't she as much.

(LAUGHTER)

MCCAIN: About Joe Biden right now if she weren't doing as well as she is. And Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders have been a lot of momentum.

RIVERA: But did you see Joe Biden today?

MCCAIN: yes, I did. I like Joe Biden.

RIVERA: Did you think that -- did you think -- I like him too. I love him.

MCCAIN: As a person.

RIVERA: But do you think that he would.

MCCAIN: I think he's a likeable man.

RIVERA: Did he sound like a potential candidate to you?

BOLLING: You know what he sounded like?

MCCAIN: No, but he has lot.

BOLLING: He doesn't have a -- he sounded like he wants.

RIVERA: He sound like -- exactly.

BOLLING: Someone who wants.

RIVERA: He's right. Eric's right. He sounded like a guy who's looking for a way out right now.

BOLLING: Yeah.

BILA: That I would have.

MCCAIN: But it doesn't have -- doesn't mean that there's not a lot of momentum around him and Bernie Sanders because democrats are looking for anything but Hillary Clinton right now.

RIVERA: He wants to go home and run through the grass.

GUTFELD: Oh.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Who doesn't? Oh, you mean, you mean the lawn

RIVERA: So do I.

BOLLING: All right.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: We'll leave it right there.

Coming up.

GUTFELD: I just challenge.

BOLLING: Friday night for Black Lives Matter activists, targeting police across America. Greg has it. It's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Last weekend, which in cable news was 10 years ago, Black Lives Matter activists chanted, "Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon," just hours after the execution of a Texas deputy. The organizer claims they were just being playful.

See, it was all very exciting:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, MSNBC)

TRAHERN CREWS, BLACK LIVES MATTER ST. PAUL ORGANIZER: It was very exciting. It was so exciting that I think the police, who were along escorting the march or the officer leading the parade, kept talking into his microphone and saying things to the crowd, like stay off the medium, do that. He was laughing and joking with the marchers. So then marchers kind of started chanting that towards him. It was more playful than anything.

CHRIS HAYES, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: That was in a playful context, that chant?

CREWS: Exactly -- at that particular demonstration, yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Way to go after him, Chris. You're real Mike Wallace.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: But hey, maybe demanding more dead cops was all in good fun, like if cops chanted, "Let's kill all the activists." Yeah, that would go over well. Chris Hayes would have had a cow, which would have doubled his demo.

This is our world these days, where you can blame a massacre on an inanimate object like a flag, but dismiss a real call for mass murder as a joke. Remember when the media blamed the Giffords attack on a web design?

Here's an actual chant for murder happening and a week of nothing follows. It's no fluke. Remember this jolly jingle?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, DEC. 13, 2014)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?

CROWD: Dead cops!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want them?

CROWD: Now!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?

CROWD: Dead cops!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want them?

CROWD: Now!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?

CROWD: Dead cops!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want them?

CROWD: Now!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: All right. So I have a solution. If you hate cops so much, why not sign a pledge never to call on them? Put your spine where your mouth is. It's a do not resuscitate order, but for law and order. I'll spring for the printing.

Or maybe create sanctuaries of lawlessness where activists can live without the law. Oh wait, that's Baltimore.

So where are the Republican candidates? Can't someone please speak up? We are witnessing a deliberate well-funded attempt to rupture western society by isolating law enforcement from the people they serve. This is enabled by radicals in our midst.

And once the law goes, society follows. Good luck chanting about anything after that.

All right, Meg. I'm sure the chants were all in good fun, right?

MCCAIN: Horrible. I mean, I can't believe I'm living in a society where it's OK to call for violence against police officers. I do think at this point, we need to ask whether or not Black Lives Matter is a hate group. I'm disgusted by the entire thing. Any messaging they possibly want anyone to hear has been completely diluted. And I don't know what else to say other than, I feel horrible for families of police officers in America right now.

GUTFELD: Think about this, Eric. While they're walking, cops are usually there protecting them as they hear this, what would be called hate speech.

BOLLING: Protecting their right to do exactly that.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: By the way, that was December of last year. And eight days or seven or eight days later, two cops were executed in their squad cars.

RIVERA: Ramos.

BOLLING: Wenjian Liu and Ramos by a guy who came from Philadelphia. I think said he wanted to kill some cops and did it.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: It's a movement. There is a war on cops right now. There -- in Madison, Wisconsin yesterday, two women were beating up a third person. A cop comes up and the women attack the cop. A group comes up and they're like another altercation. People are getting more and more emboldened and attacking cops at a bad time. A couple of stats, very quickly, murder -- Murders in these cities, Austin, Texas versus -- this year versus last year, up 91 percent, Denver, up 75 percent, Milwaukee, up 70 percent, St. Louis, 58 percent, Baltimore, 53 percent. The country is getting more and more violent and cops are being attacked more. We are completely upside down on it.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: I think the tragedy is something that Meghan said about the message. The message is being totally obscured by these radicals, this fringe. Because there is no doubt, but that many a black mom goes to bed more fearful of the cops, when her kid goes out on a Friday night than she is of the crooks. That's a tragic disconnect between urban families who need police more than any other families, and the law enforcement officers who serve them. We can't let the radicals co-opt the agenda here. We have to keep square. We have to keep straight. Black lives do matter, but black lives matter so much that they have to quit killing each other. I think that's important. Cops are sacrosanct and they -- are everybody's friends, and the Black Lives Matter has the temper, this message and direct it to, you know, to a much more law abiding vibe than these militants. It's really intolerable.

GUTFELD: Would you like to hear from Tim Scott?

BILA: Yes, Absolutely.

GUTFELD: All right, well, he's outside waiting for you.

BILA: Oh, I'm not sure about that.

GUTFELD: No, here. We have him on tape.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Talking about this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TIM SCOTT, R-S.C.: If it causes offense, then I say, that all lives matter, black lives, white lives, police officers, jurists, all of us, even politicians. All of our lives matter. If that is somehow offensive to someone, that's their issue, not mine to be honest.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BILA: I love it. I absolutely love it. And I feel like people need to stop apologizing. Like, who cares, democratic candidates out there apologizing for saying all lives matter, absolutely absurd. You know, people have a selective sense of humor about things when it's convenient for them. I remember with the Tea Party. You had media. You had people combing through those rallies, searching for something that they could pick on, even if it was something, a sign that they could distort anything.

GUTFELD: Right.

BILA: Now you have people calling for the deaths of cops. You had it happen in New York City, you have it happened all sorts of places. And you can't even call it what it is. Oh, it was a joke. No, it's not funny. And like of what Geraldo is pointing out, and why we are all pointing out about what's going on, it's very real around this country, which is that these cops feel like they're moving targets, simply because they're in uniform. So it's not funny. I don't care what the context was. This is not the time to be making those jokes.

GUTFELD: It was playful.

RIVERA: Playful.

GUTFELD: It was playful.

MCCAIN: Playful.

GUTFELD: All right. On that note, let's move on, shall we? Yes, Greg, OK. After refusing to issue marriage licenses to same sex couples, a clerk went to jail. Some 2016 candidates are defending her, others aren't. Our take on the debate next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

MCCAIN: She has reignited the debate over gay marriage in America. The Supreme Court ruled in June, that all states must allow same sex couples to wed. But Kentucky County clerk, Kim Davis, took the law into her own hands this week.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KIM DAVIS, KENTUCKY COUNTY CLERK: We are not issuing marriage licenses today.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Based on what?

DAVIS: I would ask you all to go ahead and leave.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why are you not issuing marriage licenses today?

DAVIS: Because I'm not.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Under whose authority are you not issuing marriage licenses?

DAVIS: Under God's authority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: A judge threw Davis in jail after finding her in contempt of court. Her husband says she's prepared to remain there as long as she has to.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE DAVIS, KIM DAVIS' HUSBAND: She is in good spirits. I spoke to her twice yesterday.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Will they let her out?

J. DAVIS: No. They're not going to let her out. And she's not going to bail out. I promise you that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How long will she stay?

J. DAVIS: As long as it takes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCCAIN: Her attorney says she won't resign and they'll appeal the contempt order. Some 2016 GOP candidates are offering mixed reactions on the jailing of Davis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

SEN. TED CRUZ, R-TEXAS, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: What happened today is an outrage. It is fundamentally wrong. I stand with her and anyone else that the government is trying to persecute for standing up for their faith.

JEB BUSH, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It seems to me that there ought to be common ground, ought to be big enough space for her to act on her conscience. We shouldn't be pushing people out of the public square if they have deeply held views.

TRUMP: That the decision has been made. And that is the law of the land.

SEN. RAND PAUL, R-KY., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: If you want to persuade people of a new definition of marriage, I think handcuffing people and putting them in jail and making a martyr of someone is probably, not a good way to persuade people.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

MCCAIN: On the democratic side, Hillary Clinton tweeted quote, "Marriage equality is the law of the land. Officials should be held to their duty to uphold the law -- end of story." Geraldo, what do you think?

(LAUGHTER)

RIVERA: Me?

MCCAIN: I was making a joke.

(LAUGHTER)

MCCAIN: Oh, it went flat. Sorry.

RIVERA: I have very little sympathy for this Kim Davis. I mean, she's been married almost as many times as I have. She is a hypocrite, two children out of.

(LAUGHTER)

RIVERA: Out of wedlock.

BOLLING: What is that having?

RIVERA: Because, once you are elected to and you are sworn to uphold the law, and the law is -- I can see this woman 40 years ago, denying a marriage license to a mixed race couple because of her personally held, deeply held religious beliefs.

BILA: That would be in violation of the 14th and 15th Amendments.

RIVERA: Once the civil rights law passed. But before that, when my dad married my mom.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: A bigot and a racist.

RIVERA: I think that she is -- I think that what she is doing is comparable to that, in effect. She may be of the best motive in the same way racists back in the '50s or '60s.

BOLLING: Stop it, Geraldo. Can I add a little context here? She is...

RIVERA: She should be impeached.

BOLLING: She should not be in that job. I agree with you.

RIVERA: Impeached and then released with bail.

BOLLING: I agree with you. She should not be in that job. I commend her for standing up for what she believes religiously. And fantastic thing you don't want to do that, you don't want to sign a marriage license, then don't. But remove her from the job.

So it seems to be, like, not as hardcore as, hey, she should be able to refuse to sign the marriage licenses but stay in the job. I think that would be the wrong -- just like any other job. If you're not capable of doing your job for whatever reason -- religious reasons, personal views -- then don't do the job but don't go to jail for it.

BILA: I think what people are afraid of when I hear this, people are afraid of these activist courts that make these decisions. If you look at the same-sex marriage decision. Whether or not you support same-sex marriage is not the issue. I happen to support it.

But this was judicial activism. This was not a democratic process. This completely usurps federalism. Because marriage is designated to the states, Geraldo, and not to a handful of Supreme Court justices.

So I think what people are afraid of is that people's First Amendment rights could potentially be violated by the courts. And that's the concern we're here. Whether or not you support same-sex marriage is not the issue.  The issue is, if you have what is deemed as a law that is unjust and the court has made that so, if you look historically, people have oftentimes in this country went against laws that came to the court.

RIVERA: Sure. And you go to jail for your conscience. Go to jail. Don't feel sorry for her.

BILA: Do you think she really should have been jailed not fired?

RIVERA: She's in contempt of court. It's not because she refused to issue the marriage license. A judge issued her a lawful order. You must in that job issue that marriage certificate from the judge, and she says to the court, "I'm not doing it." You can't have someone telling a judge...

MCCAIN: We're a nation of laws whether we like it or not. There's a lot of laws I would not like to abide. I've got some traffic tickets I don't think are really that viable. But you have to abide by it. Same-sex marriage is legal. She has to get in line.

I know it's not popular. I know it's not what everybody likes; but this what is happened in America, and we move must move on. Fifty-nine percent of millennial Republicans support same-sex marriage. If we give liberals these talking points, the Republicans only care about social issues, we are going to lose.

BILA: I think you have to -- I agree with you on same-sex marriage. I actually support it, and I think it's a losing issue for Republicans moving forward.

But I think you have to care about the process. You have to care about the way these laws come into being. Because guess what? An activist court can come out and put something into effect that is terrible for the country and that the majority of people don't support. And we can't stand behind a court that does that.

So the way that these things come into effect matters. I agree with you, Eric. I don't think she should be holding this job. I think she should have been fired, not arrested.  

RIVERA: She's going to be fired.

BILA: But I think we do have to be concerned about people's First Amendment rights in this process.

GUTFELD: I think she should be...

BILA: Well, should resign. She should resign.

RIVERA: Resign or be impeached.

GUTFELD: I think she should be executed.

RIVERA: That's a great idea.

GUTFELD: Be on Death Row.

RIVERA: In California so they'll never really implement it.

GUTFELD: No, I'm joking, of course.

Here's what I can -- there are laws that I like. There are laws that I don't like. I have to accept that as part of life, that there are going to be laws that piss me off. But I've still got to live with it, because there are other laws that I like.

What I don't accept is how some laws are enforced, and other laws aren't, because the media views a certain law as right and other ones as wrong.  Case in point, sanctuary cities. That's a law they do not enforce. And that one indirectly leads to murder.

MCCAIN: Or pot legalization. I mean, nobody cares about that. I lived in L.A. the past year. Everybody smokes weed and gets it through a medical license...

GUTFELD: Exactly.

MCCAIN: ... for dumb reasons.

GUTFELD: I know. So here -- but they care about this one. BuzzFeed sends reporters down there. She gets arrested. She's not going to kill anybody.  She's not like a sanctuary city. But they view her as a religious extremist.

Rarely -- I mean, they don't go after Louis Farrakhan or the Muslim Brotherhood. She is the religious extremist. And this is the fun part of the new law. You get to persecute those who don't abide. And boy, the media loves it.

BOLLING: My friend here just added racist on top of the fact that she didn't want to sign a gay marriage license.

GUTFELD: Somehow.

BILA: You managed to fit that in, Geraldo. Congratulations.

RIVERA: She should be impeached by the -- what is it -- Kentucky, the legislature.

BILA: She should have resigned. She should have resigned.

GUTFELD: Maybe she was looking for a little press.

BILA: Media attention for this segment?

MCCAIN: All right, everyone, moving on. Ahead, Donald Trump -- let me read. Donald Trump is waiting for his opponents to pick a fight with him.  He'll tell you who and why next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BILA: Donald Trump usually doesn't seem to have a hard time going after his opponents. But when it comes to Ben Carson, Trump wants him to strike first.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE (via phone): Well, I'm much better as a counter puncher. So I'd rather have and I'm hoping for Ben to really hit me at some point. Because I love to counter punch.

I think I'm probably going to wait. I do have certain things to say. But I'm not going to be saying them for a little while. Let's see what happens.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BILA: Carson has been running second behind Trump in recent polls. Donald did take a swipe at him, though, in a recent interview. He referred to Carson as a doctor who wasn't creating jobs, while he's created tens of thousands.

Wow, that's a low blow, Geraldo. What do you think about that, going after Carson ultimately? Is that smart strategically?

RIVERA: I think it would be a toxic move on Donald Trump's part. It really will be going after someone whose aspirational story is so really inspiring. Here's a neurosurgeon who separated Siamese twin. A great back story, mom one of 24 children. More than my dad, one of 17 children.

I think that Ben Carson is in every way admirable. I am shocked that he's getting this kind of political traction. I still don't get that vibe. I still think it's a David Dinkins phenomenon, even though I know that's unpopular.

MCCAIN: Ben Carson?

BOLLING: That's more than unpopular. That's ridiculous.

RIVERA: David Dinkins is a great guy. A great guy.

BOLLING: Yes. But to say that the Republican voters are voting for -- are supporting Ben Carson because he's black is ridiculous. It's not. It's because of the things you outlined prior to that.

He's an admirable guy. He's measured. He's smart. He's a neurosurgeon.  He's saving lives. Those are all things people...

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING; You know what it is? You know what it is in this election season? The biggest qualification to be president? That you're outside if Washington.

RIVERA: I agree.

BILA: Yes.

MCCAIN: He's a Washington outsider.

BOLLING: And that's what he has in common with Trump.

RIVERA: I agree.

MCCAIN: And Ben Carson is also the thinking man's Donald Trump. He has extremely high favorability ratings with Republican voters, and he is tied in Iowa right now at 23 percent with Donald Trump. So he's a threat right now. And we can expect, just as we can expect the sun to come up tomorrow, Donald Trump to attack anyone that's a threat. It's a bad move on his part, because Ben Carson has been a supporter of his.

BOLLING: He just said he wasn't going to attack him unless he...

BILA: Well, he kind of did already, though. A little bit.

MCCAIN: That's throwing shade.

BILA: That's a little bit...

BOLLING: That's not a Donald Trump...

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: The millennials talk about throwing shade.

MCCAIN: It's when you're making -- when you're -- when you're telling someone, like, "I love your shirt but you could have had this shirt."  Like, it's definitely some digs at Donald Trump. Make no mistake.

RIVERA: That's not the same as "talk to my hand."

BILA: Let me bring Greg in. Do you think Trump is worried about Carson?  Because as we're saying, he is another outsider. He has a very different approach to Trump. He's not bombastic. He's very soft-spoken. Do you think he's a little worried about getting caught up here?

GUTFELD: Well, he should be. He should be worried, because he polls better than Trump head-to-head. But if there's a way to slam Ben Carson, Trump's going to find it. You know, he separated twins? Do we need somebody who's that divisive?

And just twins? Has he ever separated triplets? I can do triplets!  Pediatric neurosurgeon? I mean, why not try adult brains? I mean, grow up. No, he'll do it.

BILA: Doesn't it make sense, though, in a sense because this -- OK. Trump hasn't really had to pick on anyone as of yet, because he's so far ahead.  But when you do see someone sort of creeping up on your numbers, when you know that it's also an outsider, strategically, I mean, maybe your instinct is, "Hold on. Let me make sure this guy doesn't catch up to me." No? Is it just bad all around?

BOLLING: Everyone except Ben Carson. Because Ben Carson is so likable, he's the one that everyone says, "If it weren't for Donald Trump and I like an outsider."

GUTFELD: He'll be a challenge with Carly.

BOLLING: And Carly. Because you know...

RIVERA: The three outsider?

BOLLING: .. the guy who's been hard on women.

Look. He will probably punch back. But again, that's what he likes to do.  Donald Trump has said it clearly: "I like to punch back." With the exception of Jeb Bush.

When Jeb was No. 1 and Donald just got into the race he went right for No. 1. And that's what everyone does. Look at TV. Right, Geraldo? Don't punch down, punch up? So you pick a fight with someone who's perceived as a bigger personality. You don't -- you don't allow a fight with someone who's perceived a lower personality.

MCCAIN: Ben Carson hasn't attacked him, and now he's, again, throwing shade at Ben Carson, which he says he's not going to attack anyone that doesn't attack him. And I think this shows a little bit of shift for Donald Trump right now.

BILA: I just think it's fascinating that you have two guys that, when they speak, if you watch the debate, they couldn't be more different in the terms of the way that they approach issues, the way that -- I mean, Donald Trump is out there, kind of crazy. Ben Carson is so composed. So laid back. I think it's fascinating that they both managed to grab the public.  It has to be the fact that they're outsiders. That has to be the common thread.

RIVERA: I just think that Ben Carson has to now show that -- we know he has gravitas. But does he have the depth of understanding of these complex...?

MCCAIN: And the foreign policy experience.

BILA: And Donald Trump has to...

RIVERA: And -- just in keeping with the reason he cannot attack Ben Carson, one of the few things that really rebounded negatively to Donald Trump was when he attacked Senator McCain.

BILA: Yes.

RIVERA: When he went after Senator McCain. And...

BOLLING: It was negative? His ratings exploded after that.

BILA: People don't care. Trust me.

RIVERA: It was the personal attack that I think scarred Donald Trump.

BILA: All right. Bottom line, the game is getting rowdy. I am psyched.  Got to see what these guys have in them.

All right. Coming up, there is a big "Star Wars" fan at this table, and he is sitting to my left. Geraldo has some exciting news to tell you related to the upcoming release of "The Force Awakens." That's coming up next for you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HARRISON FORD, ACTOR: Chewy, we're home!

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RIVERA (WEARING A DARTH VADER MASK): A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away... (REMOVES MASK)

Actually, it was in Hollywood 1977, I stood in line. And I never stand in line. Look better? An improvement? Anyway, I stood in line 1977 in Hollywood to see the first "Star Wars" movie, becoming totally invested in the universe that George Lucas created since then. After watching, re- watching those first six films in the saga, like tens of millions of others on our home planet, I've really have fallen in love with the universe that Lucas has there.

I can't wait until December for the seventh "Star Wars," "The Force Awakens." And Disney, which now owns the series, isn't waiting on the marketing. Today is Force Friday, a galactic marketing blitz with thousands of participating toy stores, online retailers worldwide helping launch hundreds of new toys and other items related to the film that that nerd over there would really love.

GUTFELD: Where's Spock?

RIVERA: Are you a "Star Wars" or a "Star Trek" guy?

GUTFELD: I'm neither. I was waiting for movies like "Deliverance" and "Blue Velvet" to come out with toys.

BOLLING: "Deliverance" figures, the guitar.

GUTFELD: Yes.

RIVERA: So are you a sci-fi guy?

BOLLING: No. Not at all.

RIVERA: You're too busy making money?

BOLLING: No. I was like, whatever, 14 or 15 years old in '77. So I think I was just knee deep in baseball at the time.

But I will tell you, this is unprecedented, the merchandising. They're expected to sell $500 million in merchandising alone. Forget the movie.

RIVERA: Five hundred million?

BOLLING: Five hundred million globally. And that is a huge bump to, I believe, it's a Disney film?

RIVERA: It is a Disney franchise now. And the theme parks, the Disneylands and Disney World will have "Star Wars" attractions.

Ever have a boyfriend into it or were you into it? Is it nerdy?

MCCAIN: I would love to sit here and placate all the geeky nerds watching this. I couldn't care less about "Star Wars" in any way, and I don't find it particularly attractive when grown men do.

I'm not saying that to be nasty, but I just -- I grew up on John Wayne movies. I come from, like, a different kind of family. Even though my brother is obsessed with "Star Wars." So I will say that. One of my brothers really likes "Star Wars."

RIVERA: Is your brother a nerdy guy or is he a jockey guy? Or what kind of guy?

MCCAIN: He's a tattooed Army sniper. So no, he's not, but he loves "Star Wars." Like, loves it.

Hi, Jimmy.

RIVERA: Jedediah, what do you think?

BILA: No, I remember that episode of "Red Eye," you right might remember, where I referred to this as a lifesaver? Lifesaver. That did not go over well with the audience. I'm just wondering why they didn't bring this. I could have used this as a weapon against you in the Hillary segment. Just when I needed it. Two segments too late, man.

RIVERA: Hillary -- Hillary needs it.

MCCAIN: Do you want your wife to dress up like Princess Leia?

RIVERA: Yes, baby.

MCCAIN: Answer the question.

RIVERA: I'll do that any day. Any day.

But in terms -- do you feel that it is onerous, the marketing, Greg? I mean, the...

GUTFELD: Not at all. I just worry about how many of these end up in the emergency room with about 2,000...

RIVERA: This is what people have been waiting to see. (ENGAGES IN MOCK LIGHTSABER FIGHT WITH ERIC BOLLING)

BILA: This is good TV. Yes, baby.

MCCAIN: You've got the red one; you've got the blue one.

RIVERA: Perfect.

BILA: The presidential candidates should take some of these. Can you imagine presidential candidates just duking it out with these things?  Masks and everything?

RIVERA: Who would win? Who would win?

BILA: I don't know. Donald Trump, I feel like might know how to work a saber.

MCCAIN: There are a lot of girls that pretend to be into "Star Wars" to get geeky guys to like them, and I always think that's lame.

BILA: It's true. It's true. I've dated a lot of nerds.

RIVERA: "One More Thing" is next.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: ... protracted adults.

BILA: It's true. Adults that love the superheroes. Like...

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Time for "One More Thing." I'll start it off. Tomorrow morning, "Cashin' In," I went to the streets. I went to Times Square to talk about the new $15 an hour minimum wage push going across the country. Listen to what people had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think that's fair. And I think it's also, you know, if you raise minimum wage, everything's going to cost more, too.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will bring more -- obviously, more tax income in.  And you know, it will be more money for New York to spend, basically. So why not?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're basically giving people a boost in pay based -- not based on necessarily merit.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It will be good for a few people. But it's going to put a lot of people out of business.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: All right. Tomorrow morning, 11:30, "Cashin' In." We go really deep into that whole debate.

All right, Greg, you're up.

GUTFELD: All right. It's time for...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Greg's Birthday News.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Hi, I'm William Devane. Tomorrow is my birthday. I'll be 77, but I look 57. I look like a million bucks. Which buys a lot of gold and silver. What's in your safe? It better be birthday cake, or I'll kick your butt.

There you go.

Juan, thank you.

BILA: You're missing a career in voiceovers.

RIVERA: You should have worn the mask.

GUTFELD: Yes. Also, you've got to watch my show, Sunday at 10 p.m.

BOLLING: Cool. Cool, cool.

Jed, you're up.

BILA: OK. So 96-year-old woman Jean Hazewinkle (ph), she reminds us what life is all about. She's amazing. I want you to check her out at the Minnesota State Fair. Look at this having a great time. Awesome. I mean, like honestly, like this is what I want to be doing at 96 years old. I don't know how you guys feel about this.

BOLLING: Younger husband, too. I see.

BILA: Yes. Look at that. Look at that.

BOLLING: Meghan, you're up.

MCCAIN: My "One More Thing" is Alek Skarlatos, if we remember, he's one of the three Americans that stopped the gunman on the train to Paris. ABC just announced he is a new contestant on "Dancing with the Stars." Way to go, ABC, for putting somebody awesome, and a legitimate American hero, giving them this platform. I'm already rooting for him. I think it's cool, except he's going up against Gary Busey. And I don't think it will be hard for America to root for this man over Gary Busey.

GUTFELD: Gary Busey dancing, that is going to be interesting.

MCCAIN: Good TV.

It's so cool they're giving this shout out. Right?

GUTFELD: No, no, it's fantastic. This is an incredible story.

RIVERA: Gary Busey is going to be, you know, AWOL, I'm sure, at some point.

GUTFELD: Maybe he thought it was "Celebrity Rehab."

BOLLING: Or "Celebrity Apprentice."

RIVERA: "Celebrity Apprentice." Well, he was on "Celebrity Apprentice."

GUTFELD: He doesn't remember it.

BOLLING: You're up.

RIVERA: Exactly a year ago, my dear friend, the irreverent, outrageous comedienne Joan Rivers, died because of gross malpractice. Uptown Manhattan here, Yorkville. She was a colleague of mine in the talk show business for six years. I loved her humor. I interviewed her for the first time back then in the...

GUTFELD: Who's that guy?

RIVERA: In the early '80s. Where did that dark hair come from?

BILA: Wow.

RIVERA: She was so funny. I mean, I love her humor. Every time you see Sarah Silverman or Amy Schumer, Joan Rivers was the original who, you know -- the dirty funny comic who pretended naivete. "Why? What's so wrong about that?" She was great on "Celebrity Apprentice." She showed herself, her true colors.

BILA: Love her.

RIVERA: I miss her.

BILA: And how awesome that she never apologized for her comedy. You know, that's so rare now. All these comedians apologizing. She was like, "You know what? This is comedy. I don't care. Take it or leave it." Awesome lady.

GUTFELD: She couldn't survive in this climate now.

BILA: True.

GUTFELD: Think about Don Rickles. Think about Don Rickles and Joan Rivers and the people that were really skewing the bar.

(CROSSTALK)

RIVERA: And Sarah Silverman. The funny thing is...

GUTFELD: Yes, sacred cows are media approved.

RIVERA: That's all true. At Temple Emanuel where they had the memorial service for Joan Rivers, guess who was the first speaker, was Howard Stern.

MCCAIN: Howard Stern.

RIVERA: Howards starts. So he gets up there, and he starts talking about the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) private parts.

GUTFELD: My goodness. We ran out of time.

RIVERA: He's quoting Joan Rivers. So the rabbi is sitting there. His yarmulke flew off his head. And everyone then started nervous laughter.

MCCAIN: I feel like we're all stumping (ph).

GUTFELD: Like now. Like now.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: We're going to leave it right there. That's it for us.

MCCAIN: Happy weekend.

BOLLING: Have a great holiday weekend. Don't forget our Labor Day special, Monday 5 p.m. Eastern. "Special Report" up now.

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