Black Lives Matter and America's Finest
Audience discusses the latest anti-police rhetoric on 'The Kelly File'
This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," September 4, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: It is a protest movement born of controversy that now finds itself mired in the same. As Black Lives Matter becomes a phrase heard in households across this country, there are growing questions about the group's goals, its method and what Americans really thinks about its increasingly confrontational activists.
Welcome on a "Kelly File" special on the Black Lives Matter protests. I'm Megyn Kelly. It began back in 2012 when an unarmed black teenager by the name of Trayvon Martin was killed by George Zimmerman. A neighborhood watch volunteer. While Zimmerman was eventually acquitted, the incident inspired America's first black president to suggest that African-Americans look at these kinds of issues through a quote, "different set of experiences." A little over a year later, another young black man by the name of Michael Brown was shot in Ferguson, Missouri, killed by a white police officer who was never charged by the grand jury and who was ultimately exonerated by the Department of Justice.
By the time that officer's name was cleared, the movement had already accepted the narrative that cops killing young black Americans had become an epidemic. And indeed cases continued to make the headlines. Eric Garner, Freddie Gray, Sandra Bland to name just a few. Police were found not responsible in most of these cases but those results were questioned and soon the protests took on a confrontation tall tone. The chants of Black Lives Matter started being mixed with messages aimed straight at police. Such as, "what do we want? Dead cops. When do we want them? Now."
Also, "Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon." We just heard that one. Sure enough in December, two cops were executed in New York City by someone seeking revenge for the police shootings highlighted by the media. More recently these protesters have been seen storming the stages of presidential campaign stops and were even offered an endorsement from the Democratic National Committee which by the way they rejected. Then in Texas, a cop is gunned down for no apparent reason while filling his cruiser with gasoline. The man accused of the murder is black and the months of quiet frustration on the part of some police departments has since gone very public.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our system of justice absolutely requires law enforcement be present to protect our community. So at any point when the rhetoric ramps up to the point where calculated, cold blooded assassination of police officers happen, this rhetoric has gotten out of control. We've heard black lives matter. All live matters. Well, cops' lives matter too. So why don't we just drop the qualifier and just say, lives matter. And take that to the bank.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a community, we say so often there's a theme that, do black lives matter. And at the end of the day, we have to ask yourselves, do all lives matter, regardless of race, creed, color, economic status, what profession that person holds, all lives matter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, you've got all of these different groups saying, black lives matter, police lives matter, all lives matter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Here we have a movement with hundreds of people standing behind a Black Lives Matter banner discrediting themselves. They've done it before. When it is time for senior administration official to discredit them as well. These are people who are tugging as hard as they can and tearing at the fabric of trust between our community and law enforcement. It's time to push them to the margins.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The disgusting nature that this movement has taken, the slime that I talk about. The thing is, Megyn, they have the same attitude about black on black crime, no big deal, you know, nothing to see here. I think the President of the United States, because he weighted into this in the days in Ferguson with some inflammatory rhetoric in where he breathed life into this anti-cop sentiment that now exists in the United States. He made the statement that our law enforcement officers have a fear of people that don't look like them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Tonight, we will speak with a panel of Americans on all sides of the debate. We'll take a look at what the protesters want, what the politicians are doing, how we got to this place and the pushback the protests are now getting from some corners in the black community. Welcome to you all. We've got cops here, we've got activists here, lawyers here. So we wanted to hear directly from you.
Let's start with the point that the police officers were making on "The Kelly File" and other shows this week, which is that they believe the Black Lives Matter protest group has now delegitimized itself, thanks to actions like, "pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon." Bill Stanton, you're a former cop, you tell me what you think.
BILL STANTON, FORMER NYPD OFFICER: Well, what I see here Megyn is, self-segregation and soft racism. What do I mean? Black lives matter. All lives matter. They're literally segregating themselves. And what do I mean by soft racism? That racism is against the color blue and now, it's a soft endorsement to any fringe group or nut to take the life of a cop. And that's not good for anyone.
KELLY: Does anyone disagree with that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I absolutely disagree with that.
KELLY: You, right there, sorry, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think I take issue first and foremost with this constant refrain that all lives matter. Of course all lives matter. But the only reason why we have to say that black lives matter is because traditionally in this country, they have been the lives that have been devalued. If I go into a doctor with a knee injury to the ER and I say, you know what, my knee is, you know, what's the matter with you. My knee matters. And the doctor says, well, you know what, I need to check out every single part of your body because your whole body matters. That's not helpful. I mean, we're focusing on a specific issue and I think that, to say that all lives matter is, yes, is, you know kind of -- all right, cool, we understand that all lives matter. But end of the day, when we're looking at what is going on in America, it doesn't seem to be the place.
KELLY: Steve, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. It's been on a false premise. This whole idea of all lives matter. And certainly, if all lives truly did matter, we wouldn't be talking about Black Lives Matter tonight. The thing that bothers me is, it's kind of like the equivalent of saying you're pro-life but then only being pro-birth. In other words, once you come out of the womb, your life is irrelevant. According to some politicians who believe that, you know, childcare and education, and higher ed and other things, that's a secondary thought. It doesn't matter. And when you have --
KELLY: Do you think it diminishes the Black Lives Movement to say all lives matter?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I do. I think it's disingenuous.
KELLY: You think so too?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Absolutely.
KELLY: You're saying, yes?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All lives are supposed to matter but all lives are not being killed by police disproportionately. All lives are not being stopped and frisked by police. All lives are not being, you know, brutalized by police. I think people are focusing on the name of the movement, black lives matter as opposed to focus on the message of the movement which is to end police brutality and to end racial injustice within the criminal justice system.
KELLY: Darren, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As a prior police lieutenant and an African- American male, I understand the movement. However, when officers are being killed and this rhetoric is being spread, something needs to be done. And this campaign is going on and on but something has to come to amends. We need to mend these fences between police and community. This Black Lives Matter Movement hasn't been doing that.
KELLY: I mean, the cops coming who were coming on the show this week expressed genuine, if not fear, concern, real concern for members of the police community given the rhetoric that we are hearing. And you know, that "pigs in the blanket, fry them like bacon" thing, that's exactly what the guy who executed those two cops posted online, on social media, the morning before he killed them. So, those words are potentially incendiary. Are the cops right to be afraid, to be concerned? Randy, you go --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think the proof is in the pudding. Look what's going on here. And what I keep thinking about is, how would Dr. King respond to what's going on? 1955, Montgomery, what did he write about? I will outthink you, I will out persuade you, I will out spirit you, I will out love you, I will not be violent, I will not threaten because that's not the way to solve the problem. I will turn you around because I will let you punch yourself out and then I will hug you.
KELLY: Does anybody worry about -- sorry. Bico.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi Megyn. My name is Miss Bico, and I'm from the great state of Ohio and I believe that all lives will matter when black lives matter. What we're seeing is I think it's going to get worse. And the police ought to be afraid. When we're hearing reports that every 28 hours, a black person is murdered by police, it feels like we're in a war, if feels like were under occupation. And when we know that the police here are sending over their people to places like Palestine to get trained by the Israeli government on how to occupy folks worse than they already are.
KELLY: What do you mean police ought to be concerned? What are you saying by that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That it feels like we're in a war. People keep bringing up Dr. Martin Luther King but that didn't work.
KELLY: Right. That's how it sounds. Is it a threat?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly. You totally just threatened the police. I understand, you know, some of the stuff you're saying. There's a time in this country where the police were sort of the agent to thwart any sort of social change. Whether, you know, you're about the Bull Connor in the south. Where the police were trying to enforce status quo. That is not the world that we live in today. And probably the best evidence of that is the fact that we have now gay marriage is the law of the land of this country. We are not living in the same world that we live in before. You know, the police are here to protect us. And, you know, making idle threats to people -- and actually they're not idle anymore. I mean, making terroristic threats to anybody, especially police officers I think is just wrong.
KELLY: Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My name is Jawel Gambol (ph). I'm a daughter of a police officer, he served on the LAPD for 25 years including during Rodney King. And while I think police need to be respected and she'd be held to the highest standard, the Black Lives Matter protesters have a point. And getting caught up in the names and these threats is not going to get us to a solution. We need to start talking about policy changes --
KELLY: Do you think it was a mistake, "pigs in a blanket and fry them like bacon," is a mistake?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of course, that is a mistake. But that does not devalue what this movement is talking about.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But that's the loudest voices being heard. I'm sure there are some wonderful people that are involved in the Black Lives Matter Movement. But the fact is all of those voice of reason are being drowned out by people who are making those appalling heinous statements.
KELLY: Stacey. In the back. Stacey, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm a radio host and I'm also the daughter of a police officer. And I can tell you one thing. When I look at the Black Lives Matter Movement, I want to identify with it, I want to join into the cause, I can't join in with a movement that talks about killing within when I know what my father went through for 25 years and still going through every day carrying the gun in the badge. They are killing the idea that they can coopt and gather in support by using tactics that offend and repel the people they want to --
KELLY: How about -- does anybody here -- people who are in support of the Black Lives Matter Movement, are you worried about the skyrocketing murder rates we are seeing in major cities which they're saying is in part they believe due to the threats that are being made to the police officers and the prosecutions we're seeing of police officers, the threats of prosecution which don't wind up being valid because cops are now worried about doing their jobs? Go ahead, Mike.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: First thing I want to address, one of the panel said that blacks are being murdered, 700 a year by cops. There are deaths at the hands of police. These deaths happen for a reason. Cops aren't going out and it purposefully murdering people.
KELLY: Most cops are not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They're defending themselves --
KELLY: Most cops are not.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, like I've said, they're defending themselves, they're defending other people. And they repulse a threat to them. They have means available to them, they have to use them.
KELLY: Okay. Go ahead. Rocco.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rocco Limitone (ph). There's always going to be a situation where an officer shoots someone by accident. I mean, these guys are coming -- my father was in law enforcement for 25 years. These guys are coming out there, they don't know if they're going to go home at night. And this whole Black Lives Matter Movement, Blue Lives Matter Movement, White Lives Matter Movement, when you start segregating all of these different movements, we're only asking for trouble. Because it really boils down to a couple of people didn't agree with all lives matter. But it really does come down to all lives matter. So, you can't segregate all of these different races because we are one people first of all.
KELLY: And yet that is what the politicians in particular are being asked to weigh in on. And we're going to pick this up. Because Black Lives Matter has been a very hot button issue on the 2016 campaign trail already as protesters disrupt events and candidates are asked to weigh in on the movement and this language. So, how should the politicians handle what some are now calling -- this is the critic's position, a quote hate group. That issue is next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(Protesters): Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon! Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon! Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon! Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(Protesters): Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon! Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon! Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon! Pigs in a blanket, fry them like bacon!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: That was a chant heard in Minneapolis just a day after news broke that Texas Deputy Darren Goforth had been shot and killed execution style. His murder raising suggestions that anti-cop rhetoric from some in the Black Lives Matter Movement has gotten out of hand. That question comes after we have seen the protests spring up repeatedly on the campaign trail with activists shouting down candidates, demanding recognition, even forcing one event to be canceled. So what does this mean for 2016? How should the candidates handle this group and what about those who have already expressed support for the cause?
Let's bring back our panel now. Let's just start with the Democratic National Committee which, you know, it may have been a case of bad timing. But no soon do we hear that chant of a pigs in a blanket and we have a cop get shot, then the Democratic National Committee comes out and says, we endorse the Black Lives Matter. I mean, it's like the timing is a little dicey. The Black Lives Matter said, you know what? We don't want your endorsement. But should anybody be endorsing this group given the controversy that it's caused, Jesse?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I am not sure if endorsement is the right thing. But certainly a conversation. You know, we saw a change in the last ten days after the Black Lives Matter Movement stormed Hillary Clinton. She pushed back and said, tell me what you want. Pure policy. And they now have a ten-point policy plan very clear and spelled out as to what they're looking for in terms of criminal justice reform. Now, I think that their message could be even bigger and bolder and talked about the black experience in America. That we have a systemic poverty crisis, we need education reform and criminal justice reform, of course. But politicians on both sides of the aisle need to be speaking to this group. Neither side can win without this coalition if we're talking purely in terms of votes as a political consultant. That's what I think of first actually. But on top of that, I mean, this is --
KELLY: What do you think -- go ahead.
(INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Every violent chant is not necessarily representative of that movement. You know, talking about Martin Luther King --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No one from Black Lives Matter came out and condemned those comments --
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: What about that? Because if they're organized enough to have their ten-point plan, aren't they organized enough to come out and say, those folks in Minnesota do not speak for us. That is not our message of pigs in a blanket. Go ahead, Dominic on the end.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. But I think we need to distance or separate the intent of the movement from a few fringe extremists -- that's the problem here. Look. The Ku Klux Klan is no more representative of Christianity for example as certain extremists in the Black Lives Matter Movement is representative of the intent. And the intent is there's been systemic racism that is occurred in the shadows, there has been police misconduct that most of the population is not aware of. And the slogan really is that Black Lives Matter too. They matter also. Not that they matter to the exclusion of any other person or race.
KELLY: Go ahead in the back, Stacey.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Okay. So, how is it in a French group or an extremist side part of the Black Lives Matter Movement when in Ferguson, I stood there and watched all of the protesters step up to the lines of police who were protecting the police department in Ferguson and tell them, we know where your wives live, we know your addresses, we're going to rape your wives, we're going to rape your children. They were in these men's personal faces spitting in their faces during water, bottles and bombs. These were not fringe elements. It was the majority of the protests.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And they would have a lot more credence, Megyn. If Black Lives Matter, you want to impress me, you want me on your side, go to the inner cities. Discuss the black on black crime where lives are lost in Chicago, in Ferguson, in L.A. You don't hear any of that.
KELLY: Let's focus on the cops.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's why no one is going to -- you hit it right on the button. Because no is going out, they're doing like Al Sharpton, he'll get up there on his bully pulpit and talk all kinds of nonsense. But, you know, what? He's not going into the communities in saying, why are you killing each other. Why are you dealing drugs?
KELLY: Look at the crowd get fired up about Al Sharpton. In the back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. I think that the DNC has endorsed Black Lives Matter, as divisive as it is, shows how far they've drifted from, you know, the great Democrats of a generation ago. Robert Kennedy was a great unifier. And this is a divisive message. And I think the American people in next year's election are going to look for somebody to bring us together. There's so many things pulling us apart, economics, race, a lot of the big issues that are always boiling. And the next president is really going to have to pull this county back together.
KELLY: What are the Republicans supposed to do? Because, you know, you've seen some of the Republicans trying to reach out to the African- American community, Rand Paul has tried that, Chris Christie is starting that with criminal justice reform pushes. However, they're in a difficult position because with the Black Lives Matter Movement it's almost become this thing whether you're with law enforcement or with the Black Lives Matter. And you saw Ted Cruz come out yesterday and say, I stand with law enforcement and the messages. And not with this other group. So, they're basically giving up the black vote if they do that. Go ahead, Ron.
RON MARTINELLI, FORENSIC CRIMINOLOGIST: Ron Martinelli, forensic criminologist. And I direct a team that investigates police involved death cases. Does it trouble anybody here that the people that are the most vocal, the president of the United States, former Attorney General Eric Holder, Al Sharpton couldn't even pass a basic police officer background exam? Doesn't that bother anybody? And doesn't it bother you that these false narratives that this group is based upon forensically or incorrect and that have been proven to be an accurate --
KELLY: That hands up, don't shoot.
MARTINELLI: Exactly. The Ferguson case that started hands up, don't shoot based on lies. And when you look at this politically, what happened to that witness that made that statement, that started this whole thing? He was never even prosecuted. What happened to all of the protesters that went into those stores in the black community and burned those things to the ground? None of those people were prosecuted.
KELLY: Those were all great questions which we will hold over to -- we're going to pick this up right after the break. There's plenty more we have to get to. And that's where we pick it up.
Plus, we're going to hear from Al Sharpton in a moment because clearly this group has thoughts on him. He was one of the Democrats who was quick to blame the angry rhetoric of the Tea Party when a crazed gunman opened fire in Tucson back in 2011. So, where are the voices on the angry rhetoric we're hearing today? We'll look at that when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PATRICIA STARK, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Live from America's News Headquarters. I'm Patricia Stark. A somber day in Houston. Thousands of law enforcement officers paying their respect to the sheriff's deputy gunned down last week. The officers stood at attention to form a wall outside of one of Houston's largest churches. Deputy Darren Goforth was killed while pumping gas. A 30-year-old man with a history of mental illness faces capital murder charges in the case.
Hillary Clinton admitting her use of a private e-mail system at the State Department wasn't the quote best choice. In an interview the presidential candidate said, she didn't stop and think about her e-mail setup when she became President Obama's Secretary of State. She claimed she was more focused on the world's problems. But Clinton added this shouldn't raise questions about her judgment. I'm Patricia Stark and now back to our special "Kelly File." For all of your headlines, log on to FoxNews.com.
Welcome back to our "Kelly File" special now on the Black Lives Matter protests. Travel back for a minute to 2011 when a crazed gunman opened fire in a Tucson parking lot and some Democrats took to the air waves for weeks pointing the finger of what they called the angry rhetoric of the Tea Party.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As Chuck Schumer was saying, in politics, in the media, in the public square, fashion our rhetoric so that it does not incite but informs.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So it may be constitutionally permissible but it shouldn't be accessible rhetoric. We shouldn't invite it on the radio talk shows or the TV at least without comment. We ought to say, that just goes too far.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The discourse in America, the discourse in Congress in particular to answer your question very specifically has really changed. And I'll tell you, I hesitate to place blame, but I have noticed it take a very precipitous turn towards edginess and a lack of servility with the growth of the Tea Party movement.
AL SHARPTON, NATIONAL ACTION NETWORK: I think all of us need to say that our rhetoric we need to check. None of us should become so defensive that we say we're not going to change. We all need to see if there is change required, change needed. And all realize that there are some unbalanced people here in this country that anything can trigger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Anything can trigger. We heard repeatedly that the language on the right was incendiary and dangerous. Now consider what we've heard from the same folks as the Black Lives Matter protests groups and their marches have spread across the country, including this now infamous moment in December in New York City.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(Protesters chanting): What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want it? Now! What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want it? Now! What do we want? Dead cops! When do we want it? Now! (END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Where were those same lawmakers on that kind of language? Not only was that largely ignored, but here is what we heard recently from the head of the DNC.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, D-FLA., CHAIRMAN, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE: I'm proud of the young people who have been pushing that Black Lives Matter Movement. We brought the confederate flag down. We've made sure that symbols of hate, symbols of hate are unacceptable in America.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Back now to our panel. So it's not that the Black Lives Matter Movement has been entirely incendiary, but there have been enough examples that you have to question whether there's been a double standard applied by those who are very quick to paint the entire Tea Party with a racist brush given the comments of a few. Let me go to you, Robert.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I feel like rhetoric is really the mother of this whole time and period that we're in. And we have to move from that to a place of reconciliation and really exercising the intelligence of listening. She brought up a major point. These are young people who feel as though they have no voice and no one is hearing them. When we listen, I think any party has the responsibility only to listen and to listen with respect. And I believe when we begin to really exercise that measure of respect -- and as leaders on the local level, when we begin to combat the rhetoric with truth as a pastor, as a bishop, we have the responsibility of speaking truth.
KELLY: You listen with respect but the speech needs to be respectful in order to be heard.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Absolutely.
KELLY: That is the problem with what we saw in Minnesota and what we saw -- why are you saying no?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm saying no because it doesn't need to be respectful. Respectability politics won't save us. Martin Luther King wore a three piece suit and was still shot dead. What we know is that slavery is still legal in this country. In the 14th Amendment, it says that slavery is legal as a clause for punishment. And so that's why your prison industrial complex has grown so. I think it's ridiculous to compare Black Lives Matter to the Tea Party. You want to think about the origins of the Tea Party, white folks revolted against Britain over tea. We're getting killed and they're saying we're being disrespectful about it. I don't want to hear that.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is horrific what was said about police, ok? But having said that, you know, there needs to be a dialogue that doesn't exist right now because people are polarized on one side or the other here.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: A dialogue started -- and what was interesting was you said the Black Lives Matter Movement stormed the campaigns of Bernie Sanders, shutting down the microphone and this is a man who's probably sympathetic to the cause and would love to hear it. Go ahead, Tom.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: I'm Tom, I'm a retired NYPD Detective. This young lady and I were talking earlier. What's actually really missing is a lot of education. A lot of misinformation, a lot of people who misconstrue and a lot of perceptions from communities of color about what the police can and cannot do on behalf of the police about communities of color. There is a lot of misinformation and a lot of education needs to be done on both sides about what's really taking place here. If the politicians are becoming out -- and I actually trying to make us believe they really give a rat's ass about any of us, especially people of color, I don't buy it. You know -- the conversation on behalf of Donald Trump, who I take offense to what he said about you personally, but he's brought some things to light that people don't want to talk about because they're so politically correct. The time for political correctness is gone. It's long gone. Let's get over it already and get to the brass tax and work on it.
KELLY: Go ahead, Darren.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One thing that we're missing the mark on is the people in Black Lives Matter, they need to correct their issues on their own. They need to have marshals and they've yet to employ marshals to back people off and keep them in line. That's why we have all this rhetoric. It can be a decent movement. However, the movement has missed the mark in trying to police them and that's the problem that I have.
KELLY: Phil?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This will go on, this will not be fixed because everybody is talking passed each other, to the pastor and the bishops in the front, and you hear their words of kindness, when you hear other people with vitriol that want this anarchy to happen. And guess what there are certain politicians that want this because they feel they're going to benefit from it.
KELLY: All right, we're going leave it there for now, we're going to pick it up after the debate. Because in the middle of all of this, the debate over this movement, one single fed-up mother from St. Louis spoke up and became a national story overnight. Peggy Hubbard's message is right after this break.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you (AUDIO GAP) me, police brutality, how about black brutality. You black people, my black people, you are the most (AUDIO GAP) mother (AUDIO GAP) I've ever seen in my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: Well as we mentioned earlier, the Black Lives Matter protests have won some praise for effectively targeting a number of incidents when a person of color dies at the hands of police. But they've also taken heat for seeming to ignore the issue of black lives lost to street violence in the black communities. When protesters marched through St. Louis angry over the shooting death of a young man who allegedly had pointed a gun at a police officer, a woman by the name of Peggy Hubbard took to Facebook to share a message that would get national attention. She challenged the group over the murder of nine-year-old, Jamila Bolden, who was killed last month when a stray bullet came through the wall of her mother's bedroom while the little girl was doing her homework. She died in her grandmother's arm. Listen to Peggy Hubbard's message.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PEGGY HUBBARD: Are you (AUDIO GAP) me, police brutality, how about black brutality. A little girl is dead. You say Black Lives Matter? Her life mattered. Her dreams mattered. Her future mattered. Her promises mattered. It mattered. But night after night after night, murder, murder, murder, murder, murder, black on black murder, but yet you (AUDIO GAP) are out there tearing up your own (AUDIO GAP). You yell (AUDIO GAP) to police (AUDIO GAP) you, you're shooting up the police, police drops your ass all poor so and so, he died due to police brutality 127 homicides later you all want to holler police brutality, black people, you're a (AUDIO GAP) joke. You're tearing up communities over thugs and criminals. You think the police are out here for fun, you think they're out here for games? You shoot at them, they're going to shoot at you. That's just the realism of it. If you try to kill them, their job is to serve and protect, not serve and die.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Claudio, does she have a point?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (OFF-MIKE) this is precisely where the Republican Party can make inroads. Rather than worrying about whether they officially endorse the black lives moment or not, I think if we can talk about how Democratic policies -- specifically Obama's policies and even before him Bill Clinton's policies of mandatory minimums for non-violent, low level drug offenses have criminalized an entire generation of black people and how the lack of funding for any rehabilitation or jobs programs within the prisons has led to recidivism, rape that's upwards of 75 percent. If we can talk about how Republicans in Congress are introducing sentencing acts to add all kinds of jobs programs and training and different types of opportunities for folks to make an economic rise once they get out of prison, or folks like a Senator Koenen who is also supporting...
KELLY: And as I mentioned, Rand Paul and Chris Christie, they're also pushing along those lines. Kiernan, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think my friend here just nailed it. That should be what we're talking about. Black Lives Matter is a bumper sticker. Let the pigs fry is divisive and could incite violence. But the constructive policy, whether you agree with them or not that should be the focus -- the solution.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take it a step further back. I'll never forget that video, the mother who was going to beat the crap in -- in Baltimore, who was going to beat the crap out of her son for getting involved. It's got to start at home. It's got to start with re-educating parents and children and teaching their children exactly as that mother did.
KELLY: I haven't heard from Warren and I haven't heard from Eric. I'm dying to know what you guys think. Go ahead, Eric.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, the same with some of these -- talking about the crimes. In certain states these individuals that are arrested for these crimes, mainly weapons charges, they're only being charged with misdemeanors. What are you going to get with a misdemeanor? A couple months, 90 days, you need more time on these weapons charges.
KELLY: You think more time on the weapons charges, less time on drug charges.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Specifically firearms-related charges.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And here's what is going on, this Black Lives Matters Movement, they're blaming everyone, they're blaming the police, blaming the politicians. It has to start at home. Let's start talking about what's going on at home. Why are there so many single parents? Why are there so many children being raised without fathers. Let's start talking about why are they selling drugs?
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: What about -- 74 percent now of black families being raised in farther-less homes, 74 percent do not have a father in the home.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm not saying that he's been perfect on the issue. I will call him out on that but this is something he's spoken to explicitly. I think you're completely correct. It starts at home. You know marriage having two parents, astronomically better outcomes whether they're gay, straight, it doesn't matter. And we should be championing that.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: The experts say you need three things to stay out of poverty, you need to finish high school, you need to not have a child out of wedlock, and you need to get a job, any job, job at McDonald's, job -- you know working in the sewers -- whatever it is, get a job. Is that understood -- is that valued in the black communities in the inner cities do you think?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I talked about this at my parish just this past Sunday, the parable of the Good Samaritan. But you know the summary of the law, love god, and love your neighbor as yourself. Nobody is teaching children today -- you know what I need to treat everybody the same way I want to be treated. That's not happening anymore, and I think that's the root of a lot of what we're seeing right now.
(CROSSTALK)
KELLY: There's also a culture that develops where its anti-cop, sort of, you know -- people have called the thug mentality and that's a controversial term. But that it's cool to sort of hate the cops and hang out and you know -- be somebody who doesn't necessarily prize being there for your family. How do you reverse that?
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's so simple. We're talking about an entire generation, more than one generation of children who don't understand they're loved and valued because they don't have fathers in the home. How you teach kids to respect authority, their father teaches them that. This is -- you're talking about less than three percent chance of being in poverty if you -- wait until you're graduated from high school and marry before you have a child. You can even be working minimum wage. Your chance of being in poverty is less than three percent. Who is telling anybody that? We've got to go to the core of the problem. And it's not police killing black people. It's the people who killed Jamila Bolden. They had a march for her but who came to that? No Republicans and no media. So I find out they had a march for this girl. I would have gone but the media doesn't cover that. So it's up to us to reach out to each other. It's up to the Republicans if they want these votes to go out for that particular march. That's where they should be.
KELLY: All right, stand by because we have another segment we want to get to. Because as the marches continue, and the complaints about the system continue to pile up, it is very clear that the black lives protests have become a political force, and up next, some thoughts on solutions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The argument of Black Lives Matter is that police officers should be held to standards of accountability just like everybody else.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: As you've heard tonight, critics of the Black Lives Matter Movement say this movement is promoting violence. But supporters say that's not the message at all, and that Black Lives Matter is about justice, equality, police accountability, and that their struggle is universal. Here is some of that argument.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you economically abandon people, when transfer wealth from them to the well-to-do generation after generation, how with they respond. They're going to respond with unbelievable levels of very sad forms of despair. This is true for anybody. I don't care what color you are.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you try to tell black people every time one of these incidents happens and another precious young life is lost, that is just an isolated incident that's offensive. This ought to be a concern for all Americans -- not a color-coded issue. We have to respect and revel in the humanity of all fellow citizens.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The argument of Black Lives Matter is not to say police officers should be killed, that police officers should be demonized, or that police officers should be marginalized. The argument of Black Lives Matter is that police officers should be held to standards of accountability just like everybody else and the increased number of black bodies dying at the hands of state violence needs to end.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: On the last point, how does that point get across and how is it heard? Let me ask you in the law enforcement community, Ron, how does law enforcement receive that message?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We receive it very poorly because we have a good sense of what's happening in the street. And like I said, I investigate these things. I have to separate all the politics and all the spin and deal with forensic facts. I worked on many of the cases that you show on Fox, and I have found by and large that the police did the right thing and that the shootings or the in-custody deaths -- the manner or way the police handled themselves was justifiable. However, I also have other cases where what the police do is not justifiable. But those are far and away the minority cases. You have to remember that we have 900,000 peace officers in the United States that make tens of millions of contacts a year. And out of all those tens of millions of contacts we get 1 percent or 2 percent that resist arrest where some level of force is used. Out of that an extremely small minority of people are killed by police.
KELLY: How do we get to this point where there is clearly a narrative developing that cops know cops are on the hunt for young black men, Mike?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah Megyn, I think part of the problem is that the Black Lives Matter Movement has been hijacked by a radical element, and they're using it to push aside the failures in the black community by Democratic politicians, liberal politicians. We can see what's going on here in New York. I was a cop in New York City in the mid '80s, 2,400 homicides a year happened on the streets of New York. That's almost as many guys killed in Afghanistan since we've been there. It was 2,400 homicides a year. It was five years it was 2,000 people. That was over 12,000 people killed on the streets of New York just in homicides.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Megyn, people don't want to hear that. What Ron gave you was common-sense math. They don't want to hear that. They want to be led by emotion. If a cop does a wrong shooting or breaks the law, in my opinion he is not a cop, he is a criminal. He gets locked up period, end of sentence. That's small and in between. Cops take the oath to protect and serve. What people are going to figure out, if you keep prosecuting a cop for doing his job, guess what, they make the same check whether they chase the bad guy or take a report in the car.
KELLY: What were you saying?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is no accountability, like how do you justify the killing of Austin Grant, Freddie Gray, and Walter Scott. There are so many names...
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You don't even know how Freddie Gray died.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I agree.
KELLY: Go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Every incident that you see on TV is always the second half of the incident. You never see what happened to the cop prior to that.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not every police department supports community policing, Megyn. It's something that's needed. In my old home town of Canton, New Jersey, they have a community policing strategy where they're going door-to-door with business cards with their cellphone numbers on it.
KELLY: Not every city can do that.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That is true.
KELLY: Randy, go ahead.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you want to know what the deal is, why don't the cops boycott for 24 hours. No cop on the street. What do we think would happen in this country if there was no police presence even for an hour let alone 24 hours?
KELLY: The Black Lives Matter -- they say so we have to choose between civil liberty and being protected from crime? That's a false choice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is so much pressure on the police forces in this country right now. There is so much condemnation. Everyone is going after them. And I understand your point back there. What's going to happen when the cops take a step back? And say we make the same paychecks.
KELLY: Some believe that's now happening. I have to leave it at that. Great job, everybody. We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
KELLY: What do you think about the Black Lives Matter Movement? Go to facebook.com/thekellyfile and follow me on twitter @Megynkelly. Let me know what you think. Thanks for watching, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly, this is "The Kelly File."
Content and Programming Copyright 2015 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2015 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.
Get all the stories you need-to-know from the most powerful name in news delivered first thing every morning to your inbox