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The Five

Cop killer suspects on the run north of Chicago

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 1, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Those were officials in Fox Lake, Illinois, briefing the public as a massive manhunt is under way for three suspects in the shooting death of an Illinois police officer earlier this morning. With the help of helicopters and canine units, the FBI, ATF and local police are scouring the surrounding area. Let's set the scene. Earlier this morning, a little before 8:00 a.m. Local time, Lieutenant Joseph Gliniewicz radioed for backup as he pursued three men on foot in the city of Fox Lake, Illinois. Fox Lake is 55 miles north of Chicago. When his backup arrived, Gliniewicz was found shot and later succumbed to his injuries. The three male suspects, two white and one black, apparently stripped the officer of his gun and pepper spray after they killed him in cold blood. Joining us now live from Fox Lake in the middle of the manhunt is Fox News Mike Tobin. Mike, bring us up to speed with the latest. What do we know? I noticed that the -- in the press conference, the officer said there's a three-pronged approach right now,  a search for the perps, evidence recovery and also an investigation into exactly what happened. Can you bring us up to speed?

MIKE TOBIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: And what is missing right now is confirmation of these preliminary reports that one suspect has been apprehended. And the Detective Cavelli stopped short of denying those reports, saying that a suspect indeed was not apprehended, but said that he would have known. They will -- they are communicating with the state police, and the source cited was state police. He said they would probably know by now if the state police had picked somebody up and they just don't have any information that a suspect has been apprehended. He can't confirm it at this time, stopped short of denying it. Beyond that, the manhunt is massive. All of the agencies are out here. It is something that strikes to the heart of the police agency. You heard Mayor Schmidt when he was talking. He seemed to tremble, tears in the back of his throat if you will, as he tried to describe this officer known as G.I. Joe, a 30-year plus veteran on this force. I talked to a cop who knew him for 27 years. He said this was a phenomenal police officer. He said he was very athletic. This is not a guy who would get sloppy and put himself at risk. He would put himself at risk if the situation warranted that. In fact, he said this is the kind of officer you would want as your backup. We know in this situation when the backup arrived, they found the officer nicknamed G.I. Joe gravely wounded, if not dead by the time the backup arrived. Very sad situation, he has four sons. This officer said that his oldest son just got his driver's license. So instead of this being a new exciting family for -- exciting chapter for this family, it's a time of mourning. It's a time or great loss, a time of great tragedy. Once again, we're talking about an officer being slain in the line of duty. And we're still lacking a lot of information. What exactly led up to this officer being slain? We know that he radioed ahead because he saw some suspicious characters. Suspects described now only as two white males and one black male are at large to the best of our knowledge. And the description doesn't get any better than that. For the agencies that are out scouring this area, it really is a needle in a haystack. You have many single family dwellings. You have vacation homes, you have boat houses, you have boats, you have campers and addition to that there's been a lot of rain this year. There's been some information the suspects may just be hunkered down in the tall grass. Guys, back to you in New York.

BOLLING: Juan?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Mike, I was curious about this, when I was reading about this story it said there was a traffic stop. So was it a simple traffic stop? Or I heard you say a moment ago, that the officer had radioed in that he saw suspicious characters. Had he seen suspicious activity? Do we know any details?

TOBIN: That seems to be the information that we're getting through the most solid sources that he spotted suspicious activity and responded to that. There's some information that there may have been a robbery ongoing. We're not really getting that through the sources at center mass, the most solid sources. So the information about a traffic stop, that seems to be some of that preliminary information that's kind of falling by the wayside, possibly a robbery. What we have on the record from the solid sources is just suspicious activity and that's what this officer nicknamed G.I. Joe was responding to.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Mike, I was wondering if you could give us a description of Fox Lake since you're there. I mean is this a place that would be unusual for something like this to happen?

TOBIN: Yeah, it's a very peaceful area. This is a place where a lot of people from some of the bigger suburbs or from the city will keep a weekend home. It's in an area known as the chain of lakes. And as a result, you have a lot of boats out here. So all over the place, there's a bunch of water, a bunch of restaurants. It's a quaint little town. And the problem when you have all the boats and you have all the campers as we discussed before, you have so many hiding places. Remember back to Dzhokhar Tsarnaev in the Boston bombing, they found him in a boat. So it's a very difficult situation for the authorities. And they're keeping, as you point out, the search to the local area, operating on the idea that the suspects are on foot. If they gain access to a vehicle, the dynamic changes dramatically. Particularly, with the close access to Wisconsin.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yes and also the fact -- Mike, hi, Kimberly, that they have -- potentially, the officer's weapon was missing. So you know that is cause for alarm. And I thought you brought up a great point, the fact there is so many opportunities for cover there. With the boats there, they could certainly hide there until cover of darkness then be able to make their way on foot. Complications with the weather, but are they pretty certain that not only are they canvassing the area with air cover, are they also have sufficient road blocks, so it's completely stopped off from people, you know getting in and out? That's the key to secure the perimeter.

TOBIN: Yeah -- right. As we came in, we did not encounter any road blocks. We did see a lot of police presence. Possibly, one roadblock we've heard really from some other news sources. But largely, we just see a lot of police presence. We see them with heavy weapons, with long guns, with side arms at the ready, but no one is taking a bead. No one seems to have any specific information, aim at that target, go to that particular building, go to that particular boat, look in this particular clump of grass, about the most specific thing we have seen is the police helicopters flying low over the grassy areas, using the rotors to blow the grass away with spotters standing on the skids of the helicopter as they fly low over the grassy area.

GUILFOYLE: Mike, what about the cameras by the boats? That was the other thing I just had for you. Any cameras, do these people have surveillance?

TOBIN: Cameras by the boats? You mean security cam?

GUILFOYLE: Correct.

TOBIN: Yeah, you're going to have a lot of home security and some people have home security, some people don't. So usually, that's something after the fact because the data from those cameras is going to be stored locally. If someone has a camera installed at their house, they recording the camera, recording a computer or a separate deck on the premises, it doesn't necessarily upload.

BOLLING: But Mike, what about the scene where the officer was shot? Where exactly was it? Was it in the -- looks like there's -- very familiar Fox Lake, you know the area very rural, but it looks like the cameras that we have fixed are on a like a parking lot or maybe a strip mall. Was he shot in an area whereas Kimberly points out, there may be surveillance cameras for those shops?

TOBIN: It was discussion that it was close to a concrete factory. And that seems to be the most solid information I have right now. And he was responding out in that area. And the search has not really been taking place very near the area, at least the concentration, the bulk of the search. I should be careful how I said, has not been taken -- taking place that close to the area where the officer was shot.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hey Mike, its Gutfeld. So we've seen 23 officers killed by gunfire in the line of duty in 2015. When you're talking to law enforcement out there, is there a sense that something has changed, the climate has changed, that this an -- this isn't business as usual anymore?

TOBIN: Talking with some of the cops, they're a bit exasperated. Said --one of them said six in what period of time. You go to work, you try to protect people and you got the people turning on you. This is a very difficult time for law enforcement, but that being said, just because of the sequence of events, you can't necessarily say that this is linked to the angst against police officers, linked to the racial tension. Look at the makeup of the suspects. You're talking about two white males, one black male. You can't say it's not linked to the ethnic tension, but you can't say it is.

BOLLING: Anyone else? Yeah.

PERINO: I do -- I have a question, Mike because in terms of how they're able to do the search, are they able to use any sniffer dogs or scent dogs, security dogs, given that they don't really have a lead?

TOBIN: There are a number of dogs out here. You have the U.S. Marshall has canines on the scene. A number of local law enforcement agencies have canines on the scene. And they should be pretty effective, but one of the things that making it tough for the canines, some of the hound dogs, which would be very good at sniffing, but if you don't have specific information about the suspects, you don't have a specific scent to give to the dogs. You can have them go through the brush like a bird dog, just looking for someone, and that's helpful. It's better than not having the canines, but absent of a specific scent, even the dogs are having a tough time. You've got the aircraft. When the sun goes down, which will happen in less than three hours now, you do have the technology on the aircraft with the flare units, where they can switch over to heat sensors. That can help. But still, it's very difficult and they really are searching for a needle in a haystack out here.

GUTFELD: Mike, you know we brought up the fact there is a two white males and one black male and that makes it a harder to say whether it's a race thing or not. What about the idea of the Ferguson effect in which, it's not necessarily, you know about police officers pulling back, but more of a brazen type of criminal who knows that the police officers are more reluctant so they act -- they're more aggressive.

TOBIN: You know, Greg, I think there is an element of that.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

TOBIN: Out there. People who know that the police officers are going to be more careful and they're less inclined to be aggressive. But to answer that specific to what has happened out here, I'd really have to speculate.

BOLLING: Mike, can you tell us about you mentioned a soft lockdown. Tell us what that is number one and also number two, we noticed that the ATF and the FBI were called in very rapidly on this within hours, any significance of that?

TOBIN: I think that would have a lot to do, the rapid response from the federal agents, would have to do a lot with the sense of brotherhood, and a lot with the fact that you've got a lot of resources so close by in the city of Chicago. So they were able to help. They want to help very much. And they'll get out to the scene as quickly as they can and use all of the resources that they can out here. Pardon me, Eric. I forgot the first part of your question.

BOLLING: What's a soft lockdown?

TOBIN: Oh, with the schools. Soft lockdown essentially, is that students don't necessarily have to stay in their classroom with their heads on the desk. They can still go from one class to another, but they didn't want them wandering off of campus. And that was with the schools that were outside of the center mass, if you will. And the soft lockdowns were lifted. Those students were allowed to go home. Right here in Fox Lake, when the final bell rang, the students were not allowed to go home. The parents were told, don't come get your kids, the school bus is, we're not operating. And that is just to minimize the fact -- the potential that the students could wander into a bad situation or that they can be mistaken for the suspect that they get in the police -- get in the way of police, any number of problems that could you developed if you have more people who pour out on the street.

WILLIAMS: Hey Mike, one last thing. I was reading about this and saw that there was a FAA hold, on terms of flights over the area. I guess that's because of the helicopters searching the marsh. Is that still in effect?

TOBIN: That is still in effect, to the best of our knowledge. And all we see going overhead are the police helicopters. And we do see a few fixed- wing aircraft. And you can see them as search aircraft, primarily because they are high wing aircraft, meaning the wing is up above the cockpit as opposed to below, if you've ever seen a private plane where people walk up and step on the wing to get inside the aircraft. And that just makes it easier for someone inside of the plane to look out of the cockpit and look down. And you can also spot them because they're going very slow over the area. They'll circle sometimes with one wing pointed to an area that they're looking for and that makes it easy for the people inside the plane to get a look at the ground. So moving very slow, a lot of police helicopters in the area. And the remarkable thing that I think we've seen with the police helicopters is the low tech approach. Just flying low with someone standing on the skid of the helicopter blowing the grass around. So if -- as per some of the information that we got preliminary, someone had hunkered down into the grass or the lush green vegetation, there's been a lot of rain out here this year. If someone's hunkered down, they would get the grass, the brush would be blown away. They get a chance to see them. You flush them out of the brush.

BOLLING: All right, we going to leave it right there Mike. Thank you very much. We going to check back with you again later in the hour with another update.

But up next here, the president is in Alaska, pushing his climate change agenda with pressing issues like rising violence across the country. Does President Obama have his priorities in check? That debate, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: In an active, wonderfully skewed priority, President Obama will appear in a reality TV show in which he gets survival tips from Bear Grylls in Alaska.

Funny how far that is from the streets of Chicago -- outposts in need of real survival training, much like the streets of Baltimore, Milwaukee, New York, New Orleans where citizens are ventilated daily. As Obama grins in insulated comfort, somewhere another by stand bites the dust.

So as Putin slices apart the arctic, our guy renames a mountain from McKinley to Denali. Who knew Obama was a fan of trucks used to drop pop stars out of rehab.

This is all window dressing for his bigger shtick, this apocalyptic climate change kabuki, featuring a nightmarish end game of road warrior ruin. Unless, of course, you heed his warnings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Those who want to ignore the science, they are increasingly alone. They're on their own shrinking island.

If we do nothing to keep glaciers from melting faster and oceans from rising faster and forests from burning faster and storms from growing stronger, we will condemn our children to a planet beyond their capacity to repair. Submerged countries, abandoned cities, fields no longer growing, indigenous peoples who can't carry out traditions that stretch back millennia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Well that doesn't sound so bad.

It's the same strategy used with Iran. Agree with the great one, or you will cause nuclear war.

Denali sounds like denial, as Obama turns his back on big city murder rates. Remember, he was going to stop the rising tides, but what of this ocean of red?

Milwaukee's murder rates up 76 percent, that's 45 extra bodies. St. Louis murder race jumped 60 percent, that's 41 extra bodies. Baltimore jumps 56 percent, 77 bodies. D.C., 40 percent leap, that's 32 extra bodies. Chicago, a 20 percent jump, 50 bodies. And New York, a nine percent increase gives you 18 extra bodies.

So in eight months, that's hundreds of extra bodies, many of them black. It's quite a mountain, Mr. President. What shall we name it?

Kimberly, rising murder rates, cops killed, but let's do a reality show.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. I mean, listen. To me it's just such a glaring example of priorities askew. I fail still at this point to understand where he's coming from because I don't speak the language he speaks. I don't understand his ideology and the emphasis that he puts on -- he thinks that the biggest threat to national security is climate change. Whoa, like where do you even go from there? That's the problem. And so when you hear him talk about these things, I get that this is what he believes in and what he's very active in terms of putting forward his own -- about his own, you know, agenda, whatever are his priorities, but I just don't feel that it's actually best serving the rest of the country, his vision.

GUTFELD: But it's interesting, Juan because you've talked about this more than anybody what's happening in the cities in the murder rates. And it seems that to President Obama, his community is more like an academic climate change-obsessed community.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

GUTFELD: And not about these communities. Why do you think it's getting worse now? Do you think there's a Ferguson effect, where the policing are backing off? Why are there more shootings and homicides?

WILLIAMS: I don't know the answer. And in fact, you know the people who are, on the ground, the experts, the police, the public officials, they are not clear either. They say a lot of these are taking place among people who know each other inside homes.

GUTFELD: That's New Orleans, right?

WILLIAMS: Yeah. And they say even like in Washington, D.C. where I live, the mayor the other day said, you know we have a high percentage of people who have been released, you know, and about 10 percent of the murders related maybe to people who have been recently released. And of course, I thought when you were asking the president to come back, Gregory, I thought you were going to say, come back and fight for gun control, but I know you didn't mean that.

GUTFELD: Of course.

WILLIAMS: I know you.

GUTFELD: But you just brought up an interesting point about the recent released. That kind of go speaks against prison reform.

WILLIAMS: Well, it does. I mean, you got to wonder, right? So the question is I don't know if it speaks against prison reform, but you have to deal with people who have been recently released, if they don't have jobs, if they don't have a future.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: Then what are we doing?

GUTFELD: Then they start shooting people?

BOLLING: I have another one, another reason maybe to come back and deal with something else, it's in the news, just a couple of minutes ago. This is the eighth cop that's been killed in the last 11 days. Maybe you know, where's the alarm there? I mean, I saw -- I heard a lot of alarm for rising tides and fields that weren't going to grow, and floods that were going to happen.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: And ice that was going to melt. There was a huge amount of alarm there.

GUILFOYLE: He should be the weather channel.

BOLLING: We have a law enforcement being killed, crisis going on right now. And where's the president on that? Honestly, just make a statement. Tell people to back off, we're not going to take it. It's disgusting what's going on. I pity law enforcement right now because they're being targeted.

GUTFELD: I pity law enforcement and these communities, as well.

GUILFOYLE: Correct.

GUTFELD: Everybody -- both sides are getting victimized because they're basically on the same side. Can I play you a sound on tape of Bill Bratton discussing what's been going on, it was on Morning Joe. Can you stomach Morning Joe?

PERINO: Yes I can.

GUTFELD: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL BRATTON, NYPD COMMISSIONER: We're in a very interesting time at the moment where police are being vilified, sometimes justifiably based on some of the videos we see, oftentimes not. And -- but there is a momentum against police. Police right now are very conflicted in the sense are they going to be supported. If they make a mistake, is it going to be seen as a criminal mistake rather than mistake?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Do you see cops getting shot and killed, but you also seen communities that are not being catered to because the cops feel that they're not being appreciated. And this in turn is creating this horrible trend that Eric is pointing out.

PERINO: And the common denominator is a lack of confidence and trust, right?

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: But confidence, you have to be a confident community to know that your police officers are going to be there. And also, the cops need to know they have the confidence of their boss, so that's what Bill Bratton I think was trying to do. I do think that the president could have added a statement onto his trip. I think it was really smart politics for him. He's heading into a month where you have the U.N. general assembly and you have the pope coming to America. Remember the pope has also said that climate change is one of the biggest issues. I think it was a smart time of year to go, the Alaskans wanted to change this -- the name of Mount McKinley to Denali, so I think the president.

GUTFELD: Is it Denali?

PERINO: My concern -- Denali.

GUTFELD: Or Denali? Tomato, tomato?

PERINO: I don't know. I think you could go either way.

GUTFELD: OK.

PERINO: On that. But anyway, I had a great point and they just told me to use and I can't remember what it was.

GUTFELD: No, just finish your point and ignore them.

PERINO: Oh, that -- so the president is saying, I want to respect states' rights in this regard, but one of the things they have repeatedly done is prevented Alaskans from utilizing their own natural resources. But if he continues on this trend, they can do so responsibly, they can do so with climate change in mind, but we should allow the Alaskans to do what they want to do with their resources.

GUILFOYLE: National Geographic, all over again. This is the deal. How about saving lives in the community? Cop sent, making schools better and making these.

WILLIAMS: You know what? You know the left is mad at him over the drilling in the arctic.

GUILFOYLE: I know, but he's like obsessed with like cumulus clouds and.

PERINO: The left is permanently mad.

WILLIAMS: Well I'm just saying they're mad at Obama, too.

GUTFELD: Unlike the right.

WILLIAMS: And by the way, just before we end, let me just say that he did call the widow of the police officer who was.

PERINO: He did.

WILLIAMS: Shot in Houston -- true.

PERINO: That's true.

GUTFELD: Good point. OK. Next on "The Five," the debate over sanctuary cities heats up again as Kate Steinle's family seeks justice for their daughter's murder at the hands of an illegal immigrant. And later, we will take you back to Fox Lake, Illinois, where a massive manhunt is underway, after the killing of another police officer, earlier today. Be sure to stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: It was a murder that set off a national debate on illegal immigration and the sanctuary city law. Kate Steinle was gunned down while walking on a San Francisco appears with her father in July. Francisco Lopez Sanchez, an illegal immigrant with a long rap sheet was charged in her death. Today, Steinle's family filed a claim against the city and federal government, saying their negligence led to her killing. Here's the family's attorney.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FRANK PITRE, STEINLE FAMILY ATTORNEY: This shooter had a 22-year history, a repeat five-time felon. And there is nothing, according to the mayor, that prevented this sheriff from simply picking up the phone and notifying the federal agency that is responsible for detention and deportment. No one standing up to take accountability.

That's why we've taken the steps today to use the civil justice system to have those who have spoken publicly take up ownership of their failed policies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: And Kate's brother delivered these emotional remarks on why the Steinles are taking action.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRAD STEINLE, BROTHER OF KATE STEINLE: We're here to make sure that a change is made so nobody has to endure the pain that my mom and dad and I go through on a daily basis. The failure to respond and make any changes says to me that what was done to Kate was OK. That she was collateral damage, that she didn't matter, and nothing will be done to change this in the future.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Strong words and emotion there, heartfelt. And you can think about your family members, your loved ones. You would want it to make a difference. You would not want their life to be lost in vain, especially when the government has failed to protect and serve and adhere to public safety and allow this lawlessness, Dana.

PERINO: I think of this lawsuit as a public service. Because legislation was not going to get passed. The administration obviously was slow-walking any sort of action from the Justice Department in regards to sanctuary cities.

And so now you're going to have this family that is going through the worst time of their lives be able to do some good because, Kimberly, I'm anxious to see what the government's first filing is going to be in this lawsuit.

And I actually think that this case, either it will affect change before it is solved in the courts by legislative or policy direction, or it will get solved in the courts and something will change.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Greg.

GUTFELD: I hope this family screws the city to the wall.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: Because these are cities that are basically -- were given over to the left. And some kind of weird Petrie dish experiment of these progressive ideals. And they took away traditional elements that make America great and replaced them with experimental progressive B.S. that made the citizens vulnerable to crime.

Sanctuary cities is what fills the gap when you remove laws. When you start flouting laws this is what you get. You get some innocent person murdered.

GUILFOYLE: And there could be more of this to come, Eric. There are certain ideologies, political viewpoints, that really support sanctuary cities and this kind of lawlessness.

BOLLING: That was, for me, when the Steinle attorney was talking, he said -- he was quoted -- nothing prevented this sheriff from picking up the phone and calling the ICE to let them know Sanchez was going to be let go.  Well, yes, there was, as Greg points out. Liberalism prevented them from doing that. There was no law there. But liberalism got in the way of doing it. We know liberals are pro-illegal immigration. They want to see people here. They want to see them eventually...

GUILFOYLE: They make up their own rules.

BOLLING: They want to see them eventually voting, I'm guessing, as well.  But as Dana points out, litigation leads to legislation. And hopefully, again as everyone's been saying here, that this lawsuit will incite all sanctuary cities to rethink that policy.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. And correct this here. Save lives. Juan.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think you guys are just being too blanket in your approach here. I mean, the fact is, goodness gracious, you see now politicians -- I think it's Jeb Bush says no money for law enforcement sanctuary cities. Rand Paul: enforce the laws. Rick Perry, you know, the same kind of thing. So it's become sort of, you know, popular on the left [SIC] to say this, because it's easy to say in a blanket fashion.

But in fact, the feds didn't put in a detention order on this criminal that they should have put in. And then the officer -- the chief in San Francisco said, "Well, there wasn't -- they didn't ask us on a detention order."

But then the mayor, and he used the same language that we heard from the Steinle lawyer, which was, "Well, why couldn't the chief just pick up the phone even without the detention order."

So I think, yes, I think it's time to test it. Let's see where it goes.  But don't think that conservative-led cities don't also appreciate sanctuaries. Because guess what? it helps to have immigrants, illegal or legal, communicate with police in order to keep crime down.

PERINO: I think, Juan, what you just admitted is that mayor said that they were incompetent.

WILLIAMS: Yes. The mayor did say that.

PERINO: So that's why I think that the case actually goes...

WILLIAMS: That's true.

PERINO: ... pretty quickly. And I don't know how the government is actually going to respond when the mayor of the city, who is named in the lawsuit, he's going to have to respond in court.

WILLIAMS: Yes, the mayor.

BOLLING: Another liberal city where the mayor points the finger at law enforcement again.

GUILFOYLE: Law enforcement. Right. But now they're going to have to settle. That's going to -- that's going to be the problem. And then it's going to establish the precedent, which is going to force the issue to change the law. And you have what Bill O'Reilly has proffered, which is, "Hey, you're going to leave this -- we're going to deport you. You're here illegally. You're going to try to come back in again, you're going to get five years." There has to be some repercussions.

GUTFELD: Could I point out, too, that Jorge Ramos said that this murder was an aberration, and you can't make a blanket statement. And he said what if you did this; what if you blamed all white men for the Aurora theater shooting? That would make sense if Aurora were a sanctuary city that invited spree killers. It is a completely idiotic comparison.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you for making that point, because we almost didn't have time for it.

GUTFELD: I know. Thank you.

GUILFOYLE: Directly ahead, we're going to reveal the surprising activity unemployed Americans are doing rather than looking for a job. And what it could mean for our economic future. That's all next on "The Five."  Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: With 8.3 million unemployed in the country, you would think there would be some urgency to find a job. But some surprising new details from the government's Bureau of Labor Statistics reveal that unemployed Americans are actually more likely to go shopping, watch TV or play sports on an average day than to look for a new job.

For instance, while less than one in five of those 8.3 million unemployed participated in a job search on a given day, nearly 41 percent found time to shop.

So is this a larger indictment of our society or the realities of the current job market?

I'm a little uncomfortable with this. Because I feel like, Kimberly, people that are looking for a job, there's different sorts of urgencies.  And I hesitate in talking about anybody who isn't looking for a job. But this is the government's Bureau of Labor Statistics actually telling us that there is reluctance to actually go forward and find a job on any given day.

GUILFOYLE: And where is this coming from? Like, to me I find it abhorrent. But you and I are, like, kindred spirits. We love lists. We love being very organized. I mean, I cannot have enough jobs. I love having jobs. I've always been like that.

I don't know: Is it a fear? People are afraid to put themselves out there?  Do they feel a sense of just, like, hopelessness and desperation, because they just think, "Well, what job can I get?" Are the jobs that they're looking for not available in this economy?

PERINO: Well, I do think...

GUILFOYLE: What are we doing wrong here in America that we aren't having, like, the land of good and plenty and people feel optimistic about it?

PERINO: I do think there are places like in coal country, Eric, where the federal government has made it very difficult to actually find a job.

BOLLING: Well, yes. And also, the other part of the equation is they've removed the stigma of not being employed. They've made it seem like, oh, don't worry. It's not your fault. We'll take care of you. Growing up, that whole thought of not being employed or not getting a job or not making...

PERINO: That was fearful.

BOLLING: You were scared to death of that happening.

GUILFOYLE: Too much coddling maybe.

BOLLING: It felt horrible for someone that was in that situation, and you wanted to get yourself out of that situation.

Now it's like it's perfectly acceptable. We have, as you point out, one of the lowest labor participation rates in history. People are rather -- they would rather go online and do shopping instead of going to look for a job.  They've made it too easy not to work.

PERINO: But you said you like this topic. I'm interested in the angle.

GUTFELD: Because it also reflects something that we are doing right. This is the greatest time in the history of the world to be unemployed. Because there's an endless supply of distractions, and food is cheap. And basically, almost everything in the world is cheap.

PERINO: Gas.

GUTFELD: But you can eat up your days and your weeks and even your years pretending to do things when you're doing nothing, whether it's online shopping, binge-watching God knows what, porn, home delivery of food.  We're creating...

GUILFOYLE: Liking photos on Instagram.

GUTFELD: Exactly. We're creating a semiretired group of shut-ins.  They're premature shut-ins. And it's an unintended consequence of compassion. We thought by extending unemployment benefits that we would help these people. But instead, we're only making it more comfortable to relax and watch 16 episodes of "Game of Thrones."

GUILFOYLE: That should have been a monologue.

GUTFELD: It was.

PERINO: Do you think it's -- do you think it's a bigger problem, Juan, or -- in terms of America's decline in the world? You're not for that. I can see that.

WILLIAMS: No, no. I just think...

GUILFOYLE: How could you?

WILLIAMS: I think I have such -- you know, as a male, I think it's still the case, Eric, that men who lose their job, they just feel terrible. I think your identity is wrapped up in your work. And the idea that you're a provider for your family.

GUILFOYLE: A provider, yes.

WILLIAMS: I think it hurts a lot.

BOLLING: Did you read some of these statistics?

WILLIAMS: I know.

BOLLING: Forty-one percent of the unemployed daily are shopping either online or going to a store.

WILLIAMS: That doesn't mean they don't want a job.

BOLLING: Eighty-four percent spend some time watching TV or going to the movies on an average day.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I think it's easy -- I think it's easy to stigmatize them and say, "You look like you're laying around. You're on the couch with the Bud watching the game." You know, I think a lot of people are discouraged.  And they've been out and they feel like they can't get something.

BOLLING: If your kids, Raffi or Antonio, weren't working, and they were watching TV, would you be on them?

WILLIAMS: I'd be kicking their ass, man.

PERINO: I think maybe the Bureau of Labor -- Labor Statistics needs to change the way that they write up this. Anyway, I feel compassionate about it.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GUTFELD: How sweet.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

PERINO: OK. Up next we're going to go back to that manhunt. It's still under way in Illinois, where three suspects are on the run after killing a police officer. Mike Tobin is live in Fox Lake when we return.

GUILFOYLE: Can I tell you something?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Some big news regarding the next GOP presidential debate on September 16. An apparent victory for Carly Fiorina.

CNN has just announced it's amending its criteria for qualifying for the main debate stage to allow for anyone who ranks in the top ten in polling between August 6 and September 10 to be included. CNN was initially planning to use polls dating back to July 16.

Fiorina surged, as you know, in the polls following the last FOX News debate after she had a strong performance, and had pushed for the change.  The RNC is applauding the decision, and so is Fiorina's campaign, tweeting, "Carly earned her place at the main debate stage," end quote.

There's still a few more polls expected to come out before the final decision on who's on that stage is made. What do you think?

GUTFELD: Who's out?

PERINO: Well, we don't know yet. Because I think what they're saying is - - I think CNN has boxed itself in. They had said that they were going to take national polls from July 16 to the end. And actually, that started to become untenable, because there weren't enough national polls. And then what's the point of having a debate if you can't then move onto the next stage?

And so I think that this is a very good thing for Carly Fiorina. But we don't know exactly who is going to be on that stage. But based on the math as we know it, she is likely to make it on the stage.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

WILLIAMS: So who's (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

GUILFOYLE: She's expected to because there's still some more polls that have to come out. There's still some more time frame in which to be calculated. So everybody work a little bit harder, because maybe somebody is going to be on the cusp right now.

But I think this was fair. This is where justice lives. And it shows you that she believes in herself. She's worked incredibly hard. She didn't complain that she was in an earlier debate. She just beat everybody else.  And that's the attitude you have to have. That's what the country needs.

WILLIAMS: That's your winning attitude.

GUILFOYLE: I love it.

WILLIAMS: But I will say this.

GUTFELD: Run for mayor of New York.

WILLIAMS: Yes, what do you think? So is one of the boys going to squeal?

GUILFOYLE: Immediately.

BOLLING: The guys -- you mean one of the...

WILLIAMS: Somebody's going off.

BOLLING: I wouldn't I think they're going to end up complaining. You'll probably see a lot more of them. They're going to try -- try and make the case to get on their tenth spot.

But ever since August 6 forward is when Carly Fiorina really started to do well after the debate. And she's been in the top five, if not -- certainly the top ten or the top five every single poll.

GUILFOYLE: Got momentum.

BOLLING: She's clearly going to...

PERINO: In the state polls in particular. The problem is there's not a lot of national polls.

GUTFELD: Correct.

BOLLING: She will, though, however, get in on that main debate stage. Are they going to make it 11, then? Who knows? Eleven and 6 or are they going to be...

PERINO: That's CNN's problem.

BOLLING: At least it's smart to make the change.

WILLIAMS: I think she now gains stature from this whole controversy. And I think she actually tried to vilify the RNC and CNN and make herself into the outsider, and it seems to have worked for her.

GUTFELD: It did. But to be fair, she did deserve it. It seems like -- it seems like we said before if you're going to judge a team making it to the playoffs, you should judge the winning record, not how they were three months ago.

WILLIAMS: There you go.

PERINO: I just don't see how the RNC was to blame. Anyway.

GUILFOYLE: I don't know about vilifying. I think she made some noise to make it happen.

WILLIAMS: She was playing hardball.

Anyway, look, there's a massive manhunt underway right now for three suspects in the murder of an Illinois police officer. His name, Lieutenant Charles Gliniewicz, a 30-year veteran of the Fox Lake Police Department.  His picture has just been released.

Let's go back to Mike Tobin in Fox Lake with an update on the manhunt.  Mike, what's the latest?

MIKE TOBIN, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: And Juan, a couple of updates. Those reports that a suspect has been apprehended, those reports have been rescinded. That's bad information.

Also the lockdown at the schools is over. The parents have been able to come and pick up their children.

Beyond that, it's a terribly sad and terribly tense situation out here.  Terribly tense because you do still have three suspects at large. It is presumed that they are armed because the officer's weapon was missing when the first officers arrived with him. Presumed they are dangerous because you do have an officer who was shot and sadly killed out here.

The search is massive. Hundreds of police officers. All of the available resources, including aircraft, K-9 units, both German Shepherds and hound dogs coming from both the state, local and federal agencies involved in this.

And it's a terribly sad situation because this officer, Charles Joseph Gliniewicz, who went by Joe Gliniewicz, is gone, who had become very much a part of this community in his 30 years of service. Some of the officers say he was getting ready to retire, to spend time with his four sons. His oldest son was just about to get his driver's license, and this was going to start a new chapter for this family.

This is an individual who spent a lot of his spare time volunteering for an organization called the Explorer Scouts, which administered to young people who wanted to pursue careers in law enforcement when they got older. This is someone who became known in the community as G.I. Joe.

And more from "The Five" when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Time for "One More Thing." I was going to do something else here. I just want to take a couple of seconds to keep your thoughts and prayers with Lieutenant Officer Joseph Gliniewicz of the Fox Lake Police Department, who was killed today. He's leaving behind four very young sons. He was about to retire, and he was gunned down today. So your thoughts and your prayers out to that family.

Greg, you're up.

GUTFELD: All right. Something odd happened on Megyn's show last night.  Shall we watch this, please?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: It's not just the media. But Hollywood...

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I'll show you. Stick around for another 20 minutes. I'll show you where Hollywood is.

PERINO: You had a tease.

KELLY: Suffice it to say they're naked. I don't know what they're doing.  They're forgetting a lot, including their wardrobe.

PERINO: I was looking forward to this segment all night.

KELLY: See you shortly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: So she calls you "Shortly." How -- how do you let that go?

PERINO: Well, you know, it's better to be an adverb than an adjective.

GUTFELD: OK. All right.

PERINO: It's an "L-Y."

GUTFELD: From now on, your name is Shortly.

PERINO: I do think I am the shortest person, on-air talent, at FOX. Maybe Maria Molina might be shorter than me. But I don't think anybody else is.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I think you're not. And then he's like No. 3.

PERINO: I was teasing a segment that was coming up on her show.

BOLLING: Nakedness on her...

WILLIAMS: Caught your attention.

BOLLING: All right. Dana, you're up.

PERINO: All right. You know I love dogs. Check this out. In El Paso...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

PERINO: ... they had the El Paso Chihuahuas, which is a minor league team in Texas. And they had this wiener dog race, OK? So they got together, they all race.

But then check this out. This one little stinker, he decided he was going to run the bases. And he -- they couldn't even catch him. Let's see.  Here we go. Everybody was trying to get ahold of him. He would just, like, run right by. It's very cute. They did it in connection with the Wienerschnitzel.

GUILFOYLE: This is, like, a weird one.

PERINO: It's like when a dog got loose in school.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: K.G.

GUILFOYLE: I think it's weird calling dogs wieners. Anyway, OK. So I'm going to be gone this week, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday. But I'm going to be going to Los Angeles, seeing my brother.

And also I'm going to have the pleasure of going to see our FOX affiliate, "Good Day L.A." and talking about my book. So that's going to be very fun on Thursday.

And on Friday, the home and family crew over at the Hallmark Channel.  That's a show produced by our good friend Woody Frazier for the FOX News Channel, as well. So looking forward to that and back to the West Coast.  Been a while. Been three years.

BOLLING: West Coast, W.C.

All right. Juan, you're up.

WILLIAMS: So you know, sometimes people, even when they're unemployed, come up with great ideas. So there was a German furniture designer who got mad at people in his family stealing his hazelnut spread Nutella. He built an acrylic lock to put on the cover of his Nutella. And guess what? It took off. Now he's selling them on the Internet, and the demand is overwhelming.

PERINO: That's cool.

WILLIAMS: I -- I mean, that is unbelievable. This is ingenuity.

PERINO: Ingenious.

WILLIAMS: It is.

PERINO: German engineering.

BOLLING: All right. We're going to have to leave it there. That's it for us. Don't forget tomorrow night, former vice president, Dick Cheney, and his daughter, Liz, are going to join us. That's it for us. "Special Report" up next.

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