FBI investigates Hillary Clinton's emails

Waiting in the rain, in tears, refusing to relinquish the connection


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," August 12, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Greg Gutfeld along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Geraldo, Eric Bolling and she does gymnastics on a mouse pad. Dana Perino -- "The Five."

Poor Hillary. This e-mail scandal is like a stalking intern waiting in the rain, in tears, refusing to relinquish the connection. What about me? It asks. Didn't we have something? Turns out they did: Two of four classified e-mails from her private server had material of the highest security classification. The FBI has got them now which can't be good, for Hillary was already less trustworthy than a toothless carny running the ring toss. Now this new info exposes her lie of having no classified info. Scary, since she had no encryption. Now she's an ignorant Snowden, leaking like a dog at a hydrant factory. Given John Kerry's belief that the Chinese reads our e-mails, they must read hers too. And based on the classification level, this is the cream of the intel crop.

So like her husband after the diner closes, she turned that server over. But not before scrubbing them like a soiled dress. She claims she's cooperating, but by that logic a coke dealer also cooperates when he flushes the goods down the toilet.

And so from the Russian reset, to the Benghazi lie, to disrespecting classified info, if she's a statesman, I'm a L.A. Laker. This incompetent hack couldn't organize a game of four square with Guam. Her foreign policy is all foreign, no policy. She's behind more failures that Kickstarter. Having her run for president on world affairs is like having Anthony Weiner run on virtue, but then again, Weiner only exposed himself. Hill exposes our security to the world which is far, far deadlier. If only she could blame that on a video.

All right, I wanna play the SOT. This is the funniest thing I heard all day. This is from Anita Kumar, a McClatchy reporter. She's talking about the investigation, roll it please.


ANITA KUMAR, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT FROM MCCLATCHY NEWSPAPER: There are several investigations into her conduct. Not into her, but into her use of personal e-mail on a personal server.


GUTFELD: So K.G., I loved this. That such an -- we're just -- we're looking --


GUTFELD: Into the person's criminal acts, but not the criminal.

GUILFOYLE: But no to Hillary.


GUILFOYLE: Don't confuse that, we don't want to get calls from her staff.


GUILFOYLE: It's unbelievable. And again, when you look at the comparison, it's like what happened to General Petraeus? Why -- is she literally could go to jail over this?


GUILFOYLE: But yet, she wants to be president of the United States.

RIVERA: Oh, are you dreaming? Absolutely dreaming, there is no crime here than -- they have even come close to alleging.


RIVERA: And then you can't compare to General Petraeus. General Petraeus knowingly left secret information in his desk, knowing it will be passed.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: How do you what he did?

RIVERA: Knowing it will be passed.

BOLLING: How do you know he did?

RIVERA: Let me finish my sentence. Knowing it will be passed on to his Biographer Paula Broadwell, who didn't have security clearance. He or she is communicating with her staffer, number one, there's no attempt communicating with her staffer and there is absolutely no indication of a crime.

BOLLING: How do you know, Geraldo? How do you know? Her staff.

RIVERA: This is a wishful thinking.

GUTFELD: That's why the FBI is investigating.


BOLLING: The FBI took the server.

GUILFOYLE: Because they are bored.

BOLLING: And took the thumb drive because we don't know. She told us it was anything classified. Now we know it's not --

Rivera: This is.

BOLLING: Hold on, hold on.

GUILFOYLE: That was incorrect.

BOLLING: Now let me finish.


RIVERA: This is about Benghazi. He ask about the stand own order. There is nothing there.

BOLLING: We know that there are -- there is not only classified material, we know that there is no top secret which is the highest.

RIVERA: It had no.

BOLLING: The highest risk classification.

RIVERA: It had not yet been so categorized.

BOLLING: Hold on.

GUTFELD: A lot of them are.

BOLLING: Wait, wait, wait, can I just...


GUTFELD: Geraldo, not all of them is classified with their e-mails.


BOLLING: But Geraldo, you will take your scene. You know what's on this literally, millions of e-mails -- you now already.


BOLLING: Petraeus will know.


BOLLING: Because they found out.

GUILFOYLE: Unbelievable

BOLLING: They went through the stuff. They just turned it over and you're saying there's nothing.

RIVERA: You would think Trey Gowdy would involve.

BOLLING: How was this? How was this?

RIVERA: Taught us, what he already saw?

BOLLING: If there is good chance.

RIVERA: Did he have anything?

BOLLING: It's not only -- there's not only stuff that's classified on there and she lied about it and knew about it lying. There might be some.


BOLLING: There might be something about Benghazi on there too.

GUTFELD: She did lie.


RIVERA: To whom did she lie?

GUTFELD: She lies to America. She -- but, she lied what she is said, there was no classified information. She lied when the server would remain private.


GUTFELD: What else do you need?

RIVERA: It was not marked secret.

GUILFOYLE: She said she turned over all the work.

RIVERA: At times she turned it over.


RIVERA: To someone who had security insurance.


GUTFELD: A lot of stuff is never mind a secret until then.

BOLLING: One more, one more. Geraldo, if this is top secret, right? So there's classified, there's secret and top secret. Top secret is the highest level posing the gravest danger to America, right?

GUILFOYLE: International security.

BOLLING: International security. So we've got at least two right now that are top secret, these information. Let me just finish this. She both knew about it and hit it or she didn't know about that's even worst.


BOLLING: That someone who is secretary of state and wants to be commander - in-chief doesn't know what is sole top secret. It's a great danger to America.


RIVERA: On Hillary have a secret clearance. You are the (inaudible), you have secret clearance. I give you the document, that's not passing secret to someone who is not classified.


GUTFELD: According to John Kerry.


GUTFELD: The Chinese and the Russians are reading it. Let's get --

RIVERA: They're reading it even if it is on the state department server.

GUTFELD: So that's OK that if she broke the law then?

GUILFOYLE: Well they were reading her as they have direct access too.

RIVERA: There is no.

GUTFELD: Geraldo, Geraldo.

GUILFOYLE: Because she didn't know the proper security.

GUTFELD: You got two humps on your back because you're carrying a lot of water.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I know.

GUTFELD: Dana, much of this classified info originated with the CIA. This is pretty scary.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: What is usually does.


PERINO: I mean, so like, it is -- I think you need to step back from --just it is the classified piece. One, Trey Gowdy -- you mentioned who is the Chairman of the House Select Committees, doing the investigation.


PERINO: On Benghazi. The only reason we know about Hillary Clinton's server is because of the Benghazi investigation. On which Trey Gowdy said.


PERINO: Oh, wait.

RIVERA: That is true.

PERINO: You have a private server? Who has a private server when you're the cabinet secretary in the administration? Who are the people within the administration who also exercise extremely poor judgment and think it's OK to send classified information to a hotmail account? Or Clinton e-mail account?

RIVERA: True but no crime.

PERINO: Well, I think that that is why.

GUILFOYLE: That's why there is an investigation.

PERINO: The FBI doesn't do these things lightly, and I think that -- the fact that she is such a poor decision maker is what's keeping the.

GUILFOYLE: And it's irrelevant.

PERINO: And also, by the way, Sidney Blumenthal is not a government employee. Sidney Blumenthal was getting information from them and he was advising her on Libya.

RIVERA: The way I got Sidney Blumenthal was giving information, he wasn't getting information.

PERINO: That's not true.


RIVERA: The scandal involving Hillary Clinton, she totally blew the Iraq war. That's the scandal involving.





RIVERA: That's the real Hillary Clinton.


PERINO: Don't blame her for e-mail.

RIVERA: This is a bunch of sound of fury.


RIVERA: Signify almost nothing.

PERINO: The e-mails are cool.

BOLLING: I'm pretty sure.

RIVERA: It signifies almost nothing.

BOLLING: I'm pretty sure you don't even have to prove that Hillary Clinton knew that she was transferring top secret information. If she was negligent and it got transferred, she can still be prosecuted criminally.


GUTFELD: I'm not here to talk about the illegality. We have a judge who actually works here, Judge Napolitano who could probably explain this better than all of us.



JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO, SENIOR JUDICIAL ANALYST FOR FOX NEWS: The government has three classifications. The highest is top secret, meaning if it's revealed it could cause grave harm to national security. The middle is secret, meaning if it's revealed it could cause serious harm to national security. The bottom is confidential, meaning if it's revealed it could cause some harm to national security. General Petraeus was indicted, prosecuted and convicted for having confidential, the lowest level materials in a desk drawer in his house. Mrs. Clinton, it has now been revealed, had top secret materials in the server in her barn.


NAPOLITANO: At Chappaqua.


RIVERA: Nice sound bite, incomplete. The question of intent is paramount.

BOLLING: I don't think it is.

RIVERA: And the question of the classification of the person to whom the document was revealed is also paramount. That is the story.

GUTFELD: Dana, you had clearance.

PERINO: Well, I had the top secret clearance as White House press secretary. I actually wasn't allowed to have classified information on my computer.


PERINO: I had to go -- if I need -- wanted to do something on a classified computer, I had to get up, walk downstairs to the situation room, log on, and do it that way. I usually didn't do it because as she said it's inconvenient. So what I did is I waited for the hard copy, which came around in a very secure envelope. And I was responsible for the document. I had to handle it properly. I couldn't leave it out on my desk.

BOLLING: Right, right, right.

PERINO: I had to destroy -- and the thing is she wants to be the chief executive officer of the United States of America and be in charge of all government employees. She going to be comfortable with people saying, oh, by the way, I have a private server in my garage.



PERINO: You cool with that?

GUTFELD: Yeah, she.


GUILFOYLE: Well, she mishandle -- yes, terrible, fired in one day.


GUILFOYLE: I mean she's mishandled grotesquely.

RIVERA: One lines is going to feed (ph) her.

GUILFOYLE: Top secret information, that's classified. Yet she wants to be entrusted with the national security and the safety of the United States of America. Wow, is she woefully inept and in -- not qualified for this job.


PERINO: And surrounded by people with bad judgment.

GUILFOYLE: Well, absolutely.

RIVERA: But Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: And the Wizard of Oz, Sidney Blumenthal, like you know, advising her. It's a whole (inaudible).

RIVERA: How can you -- how can you.

GUILFOYLE: Why do you have no problem with this?

RIVERA: How can you not address the central fact that the document was not classified as secret, until.

PERINO: That's not what the executive general said.

GUILFOYLE: That's not.


BOLLING: And you don't even know that. You don't know that, Geraldo. You don't even know that. We're talking about.

RIVERA: That is what Hillary Clinton alleges that and everyone.

GUILFOYLE: Oh. So take your word for now.



PERINO: The inspector general spokesperson is on record saying that is not true with at least two of the four e-mails. Out of the 30,000 e-mails that's not.

GUILFOYLE: This is not good news.

PERINO: Of the millions that they have, that's why there's going to be an investigation. And the great thing is, instead of actually talking about all of her policies, we're actually -- she's gonna be dragged down by this because she can't get her message out because she -- this was caused by her. Her decision to have a private server, her decision to have that run out of her house, her decision to tell the American people, "I went through the documents."


GUILFOYLE: Which why.

PERINO: I told -- I'm verified. I'm not going to turn it over.

GUILFOYLE: The people.

RIVERA: This had one impact and the impact is to erode her general trustworthiness because even if like the Benghazi.

GUTFELD: What can you erode?

RIVERA: Stand down order that never was given.

GUTFELD: What can you erode?

RIVERA: Even with that fake scandal, it erodes her trustworthiness.

GUTFELD: There's no trustworthiness left.

RIVERA: And that's where we'll have an impact.

GUTFELD: There's nothing left.

RIVERA: But to suggest.

GUILFOYLE: No, no. It's terrible.

RIVERA: That she had violated the Espionage Act or any of that top secret like clearances is absolutely.

GUILFOYLE: So Presidency of the United States, she screwed this up so bad she might as well be playing for the other team.


GUTFELD: You know what, you know what.

GUILFOYLE: It's true.

RIVERA: To make a mark like that is.

GUILFOYLE: No, but you know what? It is true.

RIVERA: So inflammatory rhetoric.

GUILFOYLE: I think it's quite accurate. I think it's quite accurate because she compromised the United States National Security.

BOLLING: You know what is accurate Geraldo?

GUILFOYLE: And she's reckless.

BOLLING: It's one of two things. She either lied about it and she knew that it was classified or at least was negligent and allowed classified material to get -- to leak, or she didn't know and that's even worse because the command -- I will tell you that there are thousands of thousands upon people who aren't even at her level, state department cabinet head, well below them, who know enough to not have classified or highly sensitive material.

RIVERA: Trust me. Trust me.

BOLLING: On in their possession.

RIVERA: Take two.

BOLLING: Don't even do it.

RIVERA: She went to Iraq one time in her tenure as secretary of state. She allowed the government of Iraq.

BOLLING: What has come to do it?

RIVERA: To become colluded and to fall.

BOLLING: What's the fact has to do it?

RIVERA: After we removed the troops. Stick to the real issues, Eric. If you want to be here, there's plenty of stuff to beat her on.

BOLLING: Oh no, I think.

RIVERA: To beat her on this is crap.

BOLLING: I think she beat herself.

RIVERA: Is a zero.


GUILFOYLE: Biden 2016. Vote Biden. Hey, Biden, get ready.

RIVERA: Anthony Weiner's real issue sending selfies of his personal parts. That's a selfies issue.

GUTFELD: Thank God you don't do that Geraldo.

PERINO: I actually think that -- I actually think that breaking federal law is worse than that.

RIVERA: What are you looking at?

GUILFOYLE: I've seen it.


GUILFOYLE: I mean the towel.

GUTFELD: Geraldo is only shirtless.

GUILFOYLE: The towel selfies.

GUTFELD: All right. This is not a partisan thing. I want her.

RIVERA: It is absolutely.

GUTFELD: I want her to be the nominee. I want her to be the nominee. I don't want.


RIVERA: That's not personal?

GUTFELD: No, no. I think it's great that they still keep her. Wouldn't it be great for the republicans?


GUTFELD: I'd like to see them debate.

RIVERA: You wouldn't prefer Bernie Sanders?

GUTFELD: He's a lovely man, all right? We got to move on -- speaking of, nice transition Geraldo. All right, Bernie Sanders has overtaken Clinton in one of the key primary states. Could the socialist yank the nomination away from her? -- When The Five returns.


PERINO: Hillary Clinton is no longer the democratic frontrunner in the first and the nation primary state. A new poll shows Clinton now trails Bernie Sanders by seven points. Five months ago, he trailed her by 39 points.


PERINO: Sanders drew his biggest crowd yet in an event this week in California, more than 27,000 showed up. So is the nomination slipping away from Clinton? Listen up.


JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Bernie Sanders to win the first two primaries, it would be a major blow to Hillary Clinton's campaign, but it would not stop the one through a nomination.

MARK HALPERIN, BLOOMBERG POLITICAL ANALYST: His authenticity and his heart showing identification with the democratic base, she's going to have to fight to beat him.


PERINO: All right. Here we are back -- I thought I had something more to read, but apparently, I don't. So I will just jump right in. Isn't it amazing to you that there are 28,000 people would show up in California.


PERINO: To see a socialist?


RIVERA: (inaudible).

GUTFELD: Voting for Sanders -- for the left is a badge of correctness. It's like wearing hemp underwear, so you can go and tell people how correct you are. And according to them.

PERINO: Do you do hemp?

GUTFELD: Yes. I wear hemp, hemp underwear.


GUTFELD: He does this.


GUTFELD: I wear hemp underwear. He doesn't -- you know what, Bernie doesn't have any baggage compared to Hillary, and he's a bonafide socialist. Someone who adheres to an incredibly murderous ideology responsible for tens of millions of deaths, but yet, in the Democratic Party he's considered baggage free in this day and age because the Democratic Party is to the left of Mao, so he's OK. He's cuddly. He's a socialist teddy bear.

RIVERA: And you know he reminds me of -- Dana, he reminds of Rand Paul in a sense. My son Gabriel was supportive of Rand Paul through his runs for president. You know, that's all the young people, they seize on the ideologically pure person. In Rand Paul's case so way on the right, libertarian. Bernie Sanders are on the left, you know socialist. But I think it's the same concept, it's the kids need somebody who is purer than the driven snow, who is not part of the political process which is some of Donald Trump's appeal. And I think that, you know as one of the clips there indicated, Bernie Sanders can win in New Hampshire easily. He can win even in Iowa. But what happens in South Carolina, he'll be eaten alive. He'll go disappear be like ice on a hot summer day.

GUILFOYLE: Oh my, God. Look at Bolling is trying to self-sooth because.


GUILFOYLE: Since the A block. He's sitting here drawing all the singles like circles.


PERINO: You want to avoid her frustration.


GUILFOYLE: Oh my, gosh.

RIVERA: It's because of nooses.

BOLLING: And I think Geraldo is 100 percent right on everything except for the Rand Paul assessment because I've -- there have been a lot of candidates who are just the anti-business as usual, and that may be more along the lines of what's going on.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, the man crushes on the family, too.

BOLLING: Bernie -- no, not really. Bernie Sanders, now he is doing well on the west coast, right? Seattle, Washington, California, he's been drawing big crowds.


BOLLING: Yeah, Oregon. This -- where else? That's where -- there you saw -- you could take the whole left coast, take a line and just draw a line straight down, he might call that -- you know socialist states of America, and he's going to do well. And Geraldo is right, and the rest of the country, New York, the parts of Chicago, Illinois -- he'd have no chance. He's not -- this is all, hey -- this is more a reflection of just Hillary stinking than Bernie Sanders being so popular.

RIVERA: So if you.

PERINO: She's caught in the middle, though because she needs his voters to turn out because she needs her intensity, but she also needs her Wall Street buddies to support her, who would be aghast at somebody like Bernie Sanders.

GUILFOYLE: But you know what she seems to have been able to have liked no problem, like walk in that line. They don't care, she can bad mouth Wall Street and these guys are still going to, you know support her. But now find somebody like Joe Biden, right? Or even you know Bernie Sanders. Like try and get some money, try and get some support because there is weakness here. There are problems for Hillary Clinton, and I think we're starting to see that reflected, you know, in the polls.

PERINO: And there's about -- thank you for that transition.

GUILFOYLE: You're welcome.

PERINO: And that lovely assist. There is a new poll out of Iowa. This is her match -- Hillary Clinton's matchups against four different republicans candidates losing to -- if the election were held today, Carson, Walker, Huckabee and Rubio. So things are tightening up there in Iowa.

GUTFELD: Well, you know what.

PERINO: It's not her -- not her best state.

GUTFELD: Going back to -- comparing her to Hillary, though. Hillary is like.

RIVERA: Did she lose it last time?

PERINO: To Obama.

RIVERA: Yeah, right.


GUTFELD: Hillary is like, if you show up at a prison buffet and there's only mush -- that's Hillary. And democrats are now looking, they go, wait over here there's another plate of crispy bacon. Compared to Hillary, Bernie Sanders is delicious as bacon.


PERINO: Well, I do wonder about that a bit that.

RIVERA: Isn't it just the kids, no doubt?

PERINO: Well, I have no -- I think.


PERINO: It's older people.

RIVERA: White kids.

PERINO: No, it's older people too.

RIVERA: White smart kids.


RIVERA: Who smoke dope.


PERINO: I don't think so.

GUTFELD: They're not smart.

BOLLING: I don't.


PERINO: That I think that also --


PERINO: People are liking something.

GUILFOYLE: Oxymoron.

PERINO: They're bored by Clinton, they're bored by Bush. They like anything new.

GUTFELD: Actually.

PERINO: Something different.



GUILFOYLE: And if there was Elizabeth Warren, then she'd be getting some of that.

RIVERA: I don't think so.

GUILFOYLE: Why do you say that?

RIVERA: Have you even heard her name.

GUILFOYLE: You see very popular.

GUTFELD: You heard of this. She's Native American.


GUTFELD: What do you have against her?


GUILFOYLE: Make an apology, immediately.

RIVERA: Doing a war dance right now.

PERINO: Do you think that she's going to.

GUILFOYLE: Well, like, though.

PERINO: Try to attack left a little bit?

BOLLING: I think she's done. I honestly do. I think these e-mail scandals - - they are going to find things on there that may or may not be.

RIVERA: Which top secret? Wishful thinking.

BOLLING: I think they're gonna fins stuff on that -- if from all the other thing.


RIVERA: I don't run policy, what are you going to these.


GUILFOYLE: Why should you give her a pass?

BOLLING: Look, if you're a democrat out there, what -- are you (inaudible) -- is that where you want to put your money right now? Hillary when -- and we don't know what could come out of these e-mails. You're sweeping under the rug. I think the e-mails are a much bigger issue than the left will have you -- they don't want to make a big deal out of this.

GUILFOYLE: No, you're right. And the mainstream media doesn't want to make a big deal out of it, but I'm telling you, it's going to be a problem. We're already seeing it happen. So to deny, you can talk about Iraq all you want. Let's talk about the.

RIVERA: And what if it gets real?

GUILFOYLE: Ethical and criminal implications.

RIVERA: Wonder the way out.

GUILFOYLE: I know, but I don't understand.

RIVERA: That was real under her -- that was real.

GUTFELD: The point is taken. She is a terrible secretary of state.

RIVERA: That's exactly.

PERINO: A poor decision maker.

GUTFELD: Yeah, a poor decision maker.

PERINO: All across the board.


PERINO: And I think it all said. All right, when The Five returns, this guy.

BOLLING: You know.


DONALD TRUMP, 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I love people. I love this country. You are going to love President Trump.



PERINO: All right, Trump at the campaign trail and made more news. Kimberly has that for you next.

GUILFOYLE: I have it.


GUILFOYLE: Donald Trump is willing to spend a lot of his own money to win the White House.


TRUMP: I don't want any money.

SEAN HANNITY, HANNITY SHOW HOST: You have $345 million in liquid assets. Are you prepared to spend that much money.

TRUMP: Sure.

HANNITY: For more?

TRUMP: Well, you saw my income. My income is $400 million a year.

HANNITY: Are you prepared to spend it?

TRUMP: Sure, I would spend it, if I'm doing well.


GUILFOYLE: Rand Paul's campaign just put out an ad trying to convince voters that Mr. Trump isn't conservative. Here's part of it.


TRUMP: I think he'd probably identify more as a democrat. I've been around for a long time. And it just seems that the economy does better under the democrats than the republicans. A liberal on health care, we have to take care of people who are sick. Hillary Clinton, I think is a terrific woman. I mean, I'm a little biased because I've known her for years. I live in New York, she lives in New York. And I've known her and her husband for years and I really like them both a lot. I think she really works hard and I think here does a good job.


GUILFOYLE: Well, Trump like himself to a popular form of republican president who had a similar evolution.


TRUMP: Ronald Reagan was a democrat and he was sort of liberal. And I knew him. I didn't know him then quite, but I knew him. And I knew him well, he liked me, I liked him. He was like this great guy. And he was a democrat with a liberal bent. And he became a great conservative, in my opinion or.


HANNITY: Some of the greatest presidents.

TRUMP: By the way, if some -- and a great president. And a great leader, a great -- he had something very special. But if you think of it, he was a little bit less conservative actually than people think.

HANNITY: When he was governor?

TRUMP: He had a great heart. And I have a great heart.


GUILFOYLE: OK. So Bolling what do you make of these comments?

BOLLING: So when those on the right say oh, he or she is more conservative than those in the middle, everyone in the middle says oh, who's more conservative than the other one? Who cares? You're either conservative or not. Where are you on the issues? Donald Trump, you saw it right there said, in the past has said things that are considered not conservative, democratic in fact. But where is he now? Where he is now is he's leading Iowa at 22 percent. He's leading national polls across the board. It really doesn't matter what he says. What he is saying is resonating. It doesn't matter -- almost, doesn't matter what he's saying policy-wise. Here's where it matters. He's not the establishment. He's not the people. He's not the 15 percent.


BOLLING: Approval rating that's in Congress right now in D.C. He's the 85 percent who don't like Congress. And he's tapping into that, and it's a brilliant place to be. The question is will anyone else -- instead of attacking that, join it. Get on that bandwagon. It's a big bandwagon.

RIVERA: I am shocked that Eric is that pragmatic because I am as well and I think that Trump is correct when he compares himself to Ronald Reagan in that regard. Ronald Reagan was a liberal democrat who went to an evolution as many people do as you from idealistic youth into more sober, you know.

GUTFELD: As it get smarter.

RIVERA: Et cetera.

GUTFELD: As it get smatter.

RIVERA: As you get more data you make more informed decisions.

GUILFOYLE: Right (inaudible).

RIVERA: And I think that's a perfectly legitimate place for Donald Trump to be. And I think Rand Paul has wasted his money.

GUILFOYLE: Interesting. Dana.

PERINO: On what?

GUILFOYLE: All of it.



PERINO: I am yet to be persuaded. And I think that comparing yourself to Reagan, it's like maybe all of them are going to do it. You know my grandmother used to say that Reagan had great head of hair. So maybe that's where we could go down that road. I actually think that.


RIVERA: I'm not sure where you're going with that.

PERINO: Policies matter. And I think policies and principles do matter, they matter to me. And I think that Ronald Reagan, when he gave the great conservative speech of 1964, really set the ground work for the conservative movement over the next several decades. I don't see the makings of that here. And I also -- I find the personal insults to be something that is just hard for me to take. And I don't think -- I think that temperament is important and I think that Ronald Reagan's temperament was quite different. Maybe times have changed and styles have changed. But if so, I'm happy to be old-fashioned.

GUILFOYLE: That's kind of charming, like hot chocolate.

RIVERA: You mentioned 1964. You know, I was in the University of Arizona in 1964. Barry Goldwater was the candidate running against LBJ. Much like Donald Trump, kind of an insurgent...


RIVERA: ... a guy that came from, you know, a place that was different than the mainstream. He came on like a gangbusters.

GUILFOYLE: Controversial commercials, yes.

RIVERA: You talk about temperament. That little girl with the flower.


RIVERA: And then the atomic bomb going off.

The question on Trump will be temperament, will be -- rather than the personal insults, I think it will be the 3 a.m. phone call, the red phone. What's he going to do if he sees Vladimir Putin? Is he going to slap him up the side of the head?

PERINO: He says -- he says in this article here that they're good friends.

RIVERA: Vladimir Putin and Trump?


RIVERA: Maybe that's helpful.

GUILFOYLE: We'll see how long that lasts.

PERINO: He says, "I get along with him very well. He can't stand Obama." It's kind of funny. I'm just quoting him.

RIVERA: What I think people like about Trump is his energy; also, the fact that he can self-finance. I think that that is a big deal.

BOLLING: And steaks. He can sell steaks.

RIVERA: No, but the big deal is, you know, my 10-year-old, we were just in Italy. My 10-year-old was asking me how much money does Donald Trump make? And I said he makes more than $1 million a day. She said, "A day?" Then we had to figure out how much that was an hour, $50,000 and all the rest.

GUILFOYLE: At some point, though, you want to show you can get, you know, financial...

PERINO: It's like even better than Common Core.

RIVERA: Why? Why...

GUILFOYLE: I think it's important to show that you have the support of the people.

RIVERA: To be part of the lobbyist mafia?

GUILFOYLE: I don't think that's the case. He can do it. He's got the cash. But why not show, also, that people want to contribute in earnest to your campaign? It's a good idea.

GUTFELD: I mean, I could bring up two points: that in "The Art of the Deal," Mr. Trump said that Reagan conned people and he couldn't deliver on the goods. And then he wondered if there was anything beneath the smile. I could bring that up.

I could also bring up the fact that Ronald Reagan was a part of the Republican Party and a strong Republican governor for 20 years, almost 25 years prior to become president. So there was an experience and evolution as a Republican. He just didn't suddenly change within the last three years.

When you were to the left of Romney on immigration, when you were for a single-payer health system, which you may still be now, when you actually overpraised President Obama just a few years ago.

But I'm interested in the evolution. But I realize how wrong I've been. Because I've listened to you guys. And I realize it really, really doesn't matter what Donald Trump says. Because if you don't care about what he says, it's freed your mind. You don't -- you no longer have to think about the past or the future or issues or -- all you have to do is embrace this positive emotion, which I'm going to do. I no longer need policy points to make decisions, because now we live in the world where feeling trumps fact.

It's not important what he believes. It doesn't matter what he believes on health care or what he believes on immigration or Planned Parenthood, because it keeps shifting. All that matters is that it feels so good. And I want to feel good.

So you're right. You've proved me wrong. I'm joining -- I'm joining the Trump bandwagon, because I feel great.


BOLLING: But Greg, a couple of months ago -- hold on -- a couple of months ago you were saying -- and you were mad at me. You said, "We just need to win."


BOLLING: "We need to win." Well, if Donald Trump can win, can you give your support -- can everyone get their support behind Donald Trump if he's the one that can win?

GUTFELD: I don't think he can win. But I'm also interested in knowing his evolution. And I still haven't gotten that from him.

RIVERA: But you know one thing about -- he does fight. I give him that.


RIVERA: There are a lot of people who disagree with my political points, and I consider them friends of strong character. People who happen to hold opposite views than me don't make them bad people. Trump holds opposite views than me, but I believe he is an honest person.


Right, Geraldo?

GUTFELD: What about Geraldo?

PERINO: Three years ago you guys could have had the same policy positions. I think that's -- I'm just saying the consistency. To me, consistency matters.

BOLLING: Well, when did you come around to Donald Trump? Because I believe...

RIVERA: No, no, I'm not -- I believe that Donald Trump is a man of strong character. Now Dana points out that sometimes...

GUILFOYLE: Wait, when did this happen?


BOLLING: ... over Donald Trump, and now you're -- welcome aboard.

GUTFELD: He's interested on being on "Celebrity Apprentice" again.

BOLLING: That's right.

RIVERA: You know, when you're with a guy every day for six weeks, you know, you find out about them, and you take a read on them.

GUTFELD: And also when you're with Trump.

RIVERA: Like me and Sean Hannity. We don't agree that -- he says "day," I say "night." But I like the guy. And I think...

GUTFELD: I think the important point that you made is that you basically said the evolution from liberal to conservative was one of intellect.

RIVERA: That was what Ronald Reagan -- Ronald Reagan said.

GUTFELD: No, but you're saying it's one of intellect. That's what I think is great.

PERINO: All right.

BOLLING: But you don't take away from the fact that the man graduated Wharton School of Business, one of the top if not the top business school in the country and has put together billions of dollars. That's a success story that is kind of lost.

GUTFELD: That's not the point.

BOLLING: Everyone takes shots at Donald Trump, talking about his intellect.

GUILFOYLE: I want to see him make Mexico pay for the wall.

GUTFELD: I was talking about Geraldo admitting that moving to conservatism is a sign of intellect.

RIVERA: How long have you been against abortions?

GUTFELD: I would say '88.

RIVERA: Eight-eight?


RIVERA: So what happened to you in '88?

GUTFELD: I went to Berkeley. And I went to Berkeley, and I was around liberals.

RIVERA: What happened to you in '88? Are you going to give me the phony story you saw a sonogram?

GUTFELD: No, no, no, no. That's not a phony story. I didn't need to see a sonogram. What I did was I was around the left. And I noticed the lock step of the left made me nauseous. The same way the lock step of the right...

RIVERA: I'm talking about this issue particularly. When did you change and what changed you? Lightning strikes?

GUTFELD: I decided -- no. No, I thought about it.

RIVERA: What was it? The old you just told you...

GUTFELD: You can continue to mock me for being pro-life. You can mock me for being pro-life if you like.

RIVERA: I don't mock you. What I'm suggesting is you want other people to deplore flexibility and evolution, and yet you have it in your own life. How?


RIVERA: You were a liberal in '88 at Berkeley?

GUTFELD: Yes, and I -- and I explained the evolution.


RIVERA: ... mocking the secretary of state.

GUTFELD: I explained the evolution. You are mocking. You are mocking the fact that I actually can explain my evolution, and I have in speeches and in books. How I went from -- how I went from a conservative was being around liberals like you.

GUILFOYLE: Anybody want to hit anybody? Or can I go?

BOLLING: Does somebody want to hit me?

GUILFOYLE: Well, do your Geraldo kiss thing.

OK. The Deflategate drama, it ain't over. Why Tom Brady -- he's dreamy; let's get to him -- and NFL commissioner Roger Goodell met face-to-face in a courtroom today. That's next.


BOLLING: Gridiron golden boy Tom Brady met face-to-face with Commissioner Roger Goodell today in New York -- in a New York courtroom over his four- game suspension. Now, Goodell says NFL owners have given him all the power he needs to punish Brady.


ROGER GOODELL, NFL COMMISSIONER: The ownership instills in the commissioner, and he negotiated that with the union and the collective bargaining agreement, the authority of the commissioner to protect the integrity of the game. And in particular, the personal conduct policy outside of that. That's my job. It's my responsibility. I take it seriously.


BOLLING: But today Judge Richard Berman poked holes in the NFL's case, questioning Brady's link to the deflated footballs, even pointing out Brady performed better with the higher inflated balls. In the end no deal was reached, and the two sides are going to meet again next week.

A lot of money at stake, Greg. And so this thing is not solved yet. Four games now but could be less or none.

GUTFELD: It's in court, which is always interesting to me. Because the most interesting thing about court are the drawings. Let's show the drawing of Tom Brady here. That's -- you see which one is Tom Brady? Look how much that looks like Tom Brady. It's uncanny how that looks like Tom Brady.

BOLLING: It's "The Walking Dead."

GUILFOYLE: That's -- somebody who drew that hates the Patriots.

GUTFELD: No, no. How dare you? This is what you call modern art, people. Picasso couldn't have done a better job than that. Look at him. He's very unhappy. He's staring down at something. He's contemplating I don't know what.

BOLLING: What's the guy in the back? He's sleeping back there?

GUTFELD: He does not at all look like Lurch from "The Addams Family."

PERINO: Looking at a Blackberry.

GUTFELD: He doesn't look like Lurch from "The Addams Family."

GUILFOYLE: No, but it does reflect -- but you know what? It does reflect accurately his bad haircut right now.

RIVERA: Greatest quarterback of this generation. This, too, shall pass.

GUTFELD: Oh, yes, but you defended O.J., didn't you, Geraldo? Did you defend O.J.?

RIVERA: I defended O.J.?


RIVERA: I had O.J. convicted from day one!

GUTFELD: Oh, please.

RIVERA: That's another misstatement. Just because you're charming doesn't mean you can throw out flamboyant lies.

GUILFOYLE: What about Casey Anthony and Jose Baez? How about that?

RIVERA: I predicted that, as well.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

BOLLING: You think there's no suspension?

RIVERA: I think he will be suspended. I think he will.


RIVERA: I don't know why the Patriots don't just move on.

BOLLING: Roger Goodell -- because it's a lot of money. Roger Goodell makes a very good point. There's a collective bargaining agreement. That's pretty rock solid.


RIVERA: He's right.

BOLLING: That was freaky.

GUILFOYLE: Here's the deal. I know, but nI'm kind of agreeing with him at a certain point. But OK, here's what I think.

No. 1, if he broke the rules and he broke the law, then it doesn't matter if he played better before or after. That I think shouldn't matter. It's whether it's -- those are the rules you're going to abide by. I don't care if you actually intended to do it and then you threw better when they were the proper size, et cetera, et cetera.

I think that he's got to be punished. I think it was probably pretty stiff. And that might get reduced, because it doesn't seem there was adequate due process.

RIVERA: Let me bring in...

BOLLING: Hold it, Geraldo.

PERINO: The only thing is, I've always felt bad for the two guys that were the ball handler guys that got fired. And I still feel like he should make them whole. And he should have come out initially and said...

GUTFELD: They were left holding the balls.

GUILFOYLE: Well, they've got money in some Swiss account...

PERINO: There we go again.

GUILFOYLE: ... I'm sure. Speculating.

BOLLING: Let's do this before something comes out.

Ahead, Kim Kardashian loves to post selfies -- what? -- on social media.


RIVERA: I've never had that phony...

BOLLING: Now she's in trouble with the FDA. See why next.

GUTFELD: How do we know that?


RIVERA: Welcome back to "The Five."

Kim Kardashian, you know her. She's the hustler from a family of hustlers. She's a brilliant marketer. She uses her massive following on social media to hawk products to tens of millions of fans, 40-point-something million fans. Usually, she just makes money, but aside from a big pay day, one of her posts just got the government's attention.

The FDA ordering Kim to take down this selfie endorsing a morning sickness drug, Diclegis. The five-month pregnant mom-to-be posted on Instagram that Diclegis made her feel a lot better. And most importantly -- and this is the rub -- claimed, Kim did, that it had been studied, Diclegis, and there was no increased risk to the baby. Which was misleading, according to the FDA, because she failed to tell her fans about the drug's sometimes -- sometimes serious side effects.

And Kimberly, I don't trust anything about Kim Kardashian or the Kardashian clan. Kris Humphries, that wedding to the Brooklyn Net totally phony. I believe that they'd do anything for money. They're hustlers. And I think that this is an example of the fact that she will sell out anything to get cash.

GUILFOYLE: Well, I think this is particularly reprehensible, because you have to be so careful when it comes to maternal and fetal health. And to suggest that somebody should just -- like she's a doctor, to be able to endorse this healthy; people take something that could cause birth defects or cause harm to the mom or to the fetus, that's really irresponsible.

RIVERA: And the thing is, Dana, about the Kardashian clan, they have this enormous following. What do you think is the reason the people who follow them believe them when it comes to subjects such as this?

PERINO: Well, you could talk about it happens in politics, too. Right? It's happening now. There are -- celebrity is powerful. And even if people can't quite understand why she's a celebrity, it comes -- once you have it, once you have fame, you do have some responsibility.

And I do think that the FDA is right to stick its nose in this business and say this is not allowed.

And the thing that I don't understand about the Kardashian clan, and this in particular, is at what point do you have enough money? I mean, she doesn't need the money. She doesn't need to do this. And of course, it's very easy for her to take a picture, and somebody else probably wrote her Instagram thing. But at least have some measure of responsibility when you're talking about other people's health.

RIVERA: What about Dana's point, Eric? Greed is good, we say. And here you have a situation where greed is so mindless and blind to substance.

BOLLING: Well, I'm not sure this is greed. As you point out, she makes tens of millions, if not more, per year on websites and all the other appearances and whatnot. This doesn't seem like she may have even known what was going on. Maybe someone said, "Here's a picture. Hold this up." And someone put those words, and you quoted them. I'm not sure she spoke up...

PERINO: I think she's savvy enough to know she should have -- I think she's a savvy enough businesswoman that she would say, "Well, what am I holding? What is this for?"


RIVERA: Do you think she was really tricked?

BOLLING: No, but if you look at any ad that you need a prescription for, right, there's a long list. Migraines may ensue, or bleeding from your eyes and your nose. Or whatever.

PERINO: Oh, my God.

BOLLING: But my point is...

RIVERA: No, no. Finally blew it.

BOLLING: ... I don't think she knew what was -- what was going into that ad. In fact, can you imagine, with all the things she's doing, all the appearances, all the movies...

RIVERA: You want to comment on...


BOLLING: ... she knows about one line in a web ad?

RIVERA: Why are the Kardashians the defining family of this generation?

GUTFELD: I think you're mistaken. Kim's enormous following is her butt.

GUILFOYLE: It's the butt.

GUTFELD: If you act -- if you act...

PERINO: Don't put the camera on me!

GUTFELD: If you add -- I mean, it's true. The thing casts a shadow. It's beautiful. It's a work of art. If you act on Kardashian...

GUILFOYLE: So confused.

RIVERA: Laser...

GUILFOYLE: Kardashian, not Guilfoyle.

GUTFELD: If you act on Kardashians' advice, it's kind of on you. And by the way, I can't...

RIVERA: That's a good point.

GUTFELD: I can't find two more...

RIVERA: That's a good point.

GUTFELD: ... annoying evils than the FDA and Kim Kardashian. It's like choosing from -- what's the worst? The FDA...

RIVERA: She loves endorsements (ph). Come on.

GUTFELD: FDA intrudes in your life every day. I can at least turn off Kim Kardashian. When she calls.

RIVERA: "One More Thing" is up next. Don't go away.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, right.


GUTFELD: Time for "One More Thing" -- Eric.

BOLLING: OK. First, I will be hosting "The O'Reilly Factor" tonight. It's going to be very, very big. Bill O'Reilly's going to call in and talk about the Hillary Clinton e-mail scandal.

RIVERA: O'Reilly a guest on his own show.

BOLLING: A guest on his own show. It's so fun. Don't forget: he's the one who's calling for an FBI investigation in Hillary Clinton and the Clinton Foundation. He's going to explain what he thinks is going to come of that.

If you go and watch it tonight, I promise to post a Snapchat and Twitter video of what goes on in -- in the break.

PERINO: If that's not an incentive...

BOLLING: But also, do me a favor. Everyone say your prayers. Prayers out to Jimmy Carter and his family. He announced today that he's undergoing treatment for liver cancer that has traveled. He had recent liver surgery; revealed that he has a cancer that has spread from the liver to other places. So he will be undergoing treatment. Keep him and their family in your prayers.

GUTFELD: Dana Perino.

PERINO: OK. So you might not have seen it on the news, but I want to tell you that Obama's EPA has poisoned a river in Colorado and New Mexico. It's the Animas River. One of the things that I've noticed is that the media doesn't ever tag Obama with it.


PERINO: It's always just...

GUTFELD: Bizarre.

PERINO: ... the EPA. And it's a mistake.

RIVERA: How did they do it? What, did they -- did they...

PERINO: They thought that they were -- yes, they released all of this lime waste into the river. And so one of the things I used to bus reporters on was to say, "Why don't you ever give Bush credit for something good for us with the environment? You only would say something bad."

So I asked -- I had a Twitter contest today to ask what would the headlines look like if President Bush were in charge today and this had happened, and the EPA had poisoned a river in Colorado?

Ed Gillespie, one of my great friends, he had a great headline. "Bush Administration Pollutes Pristine Colorado River. White House Denies it Was Intentional." You can bet that would have been in The New York Times.

How about @TheRealBepo? "Bush Administration Continues 'War on Women,' Poisons Mother Nature with Toxic Spill in River." Guaranteed that would have been in there.

And Brad Spieth, I love this one: "Bush Lied, River Died." You -- I promise you that would have been the headline.

GUILFOYLE: You have very helpful friends.

PERINO: I know. They were great.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, they did a nice job. That's a nice...

GUTFELD: All right, Kimberly, enough.

GUILFOYLE: Is it my turn yet?

GUTFELD: No, it's mine. You'll be there. It's time for...


GUTFELD: Greg's Medical Tips.


GUILFOYLE: Good job (ph).

GUTFELD: As many of you know, that -- I believe in strong health. When I turned 50, I would have my colostomy -- colonoscopy done.

GUILFOYLE: Colostomy done?

GUTFELD: Colonoscopy, yes. In fact, Geraldo, I don't just take my shirt off when I'm on a boat. I actually have tape here of my colonoscopy.

PERINO: Are you kidding?

GUTFELD: No. Here it is. Roll it.

PERINO: I don't want to see this.

GUTFELD: Let's roll. Here it is.




GUTFELD: So it turns out that they discovered an entire army of little Pikachus...

GUILFOYLE: I was really worried. I really was.

GUTFELD: ... are living in my colon. I have no idea how they got there, but I'm glad that I caught it early. Look at that.

RIVERA: You probably caught it when you were a liberal.

GUTFELD: Yes, that's true. That's what you get.

PERINO: Did that hurt?

GUTFELD: No, actually, it's pleasurable.

GUILFOYLE: Eww! This is gross. Can we do mine? Mine is...

GUTFELD: You're next.


GUTFELD: Start talking.

GUILFOYLE: You want to watch a real show that makes sense that really is going to broaden your mind? Check out Greta Van Susteren. She has an amazing interview, a sit-down tonight you'll see on the show with Jeb Bush, presidential contender for 2016. They did this interview last night. It will air at 7 p.m. Eastern, "On the Record." And this was at the presidential library, the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library in Simi Valley.

And take a listen to this, because he criticizes Obama on foreign policy.


BUSH: This president has had a year where he says, "We don't have a strategy to deal with ISIS."I mean, he said it twice.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Why? Why do you think he says that?

BUSH: Because he's running out the clock. He's dialing it in. He wants his legacy to be, "I did a deal with Iran."


GUILFOYLE: Greta and Jeb, tonight, 7 p.m. Eastern. Go "On the Record."

GUTFELD: Geraldo.

RIVERA: Celebrating our twelfth anniversary, Erica and I went to Northern Italy. We took Sol, who is celebrating her tenth birthday. Here we are outside of the Duomo, the beautiful cathedral in Milan. Also went to Venice. That's the -- the Doge's Castle behind us. She fell asleep, jetlagged, on her own tenth birthday. We got the cake, but she fell asleep.


RIVERA: So adorable.

Ran into a familiar face there, Arthur Aidala and his beautiful fiancee, Marianne.

GUILFOYLE: There he is.

GUTFELD: Everywhere.

RIVERA: There is (UNINTELLIGIBLE) in Venice.

Venice is wonderful, by the way. The canals have never been cleaner.

PERINO: Unlike the Colorado river that Obama poisoned.

RIVERA: Unlike the Colorado river. The EPA doesn't work in Venice.

GUTFELD: That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

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