Poll: Trump tops GOP presidential hopefuls by wide margin

The Donald surges ahead of Republican pack with 20 percent support in new polling


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 30, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

We are one week away from the first debate of the 2016 presidential race. And Donald Trump still maintains a sizeable lead in the polls. In Quinnipiac's new survey, 20 percent of GOP voters say they would pick him to be the nominee. Scott Walker and Jeb Bush follow at 13 and 10 percent. One candidate with 6 percent of support is advising voters not to pay too much attention to polling. Why? Well, here's Marco Rubio.


MARCO RUBIO, 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: These polls are completely irrelevant. They really are. I mean they poll in July of the year before the election has zero bearing on how people are going to vote in February in Iowa or in New Hampshire or in South Carolina or in Nevada. And even the candidates themselves, who know anything about this, are -- would admit that themselves. What really matters is what our campaigns are about, and if you can answer the fundamental question of why do you want to be the president.


PERINO: All right, so polls -- I think that he's right, but if you are winning -- if you were at the top of the polls, he might have a different message.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: He's -- you know what? He's like Spinal Tap. Do you remember they were told -- when they were told that their Boston gig was canceled? They said, don't worry it's not a college town?


GUTFELD: That's what he just said.


GUTFELD: I have not.




GUILFOYLE: Actually, no one has any idea what you're talking about. But it happens only.

GUTFELD: Why can't -- why don't you people go to the movies? No, none of you have seen Spinal Tap?

PERINO: You don't even go to the movies.

GUILFOYLE: I don't go to the movies.


GUILFOYLE: Movies are soft targets.

GUTFELD: All right. I would say this many polls, since I went to that vaulting competition at the strip club in Warsaw.


GUTFELD: It's really early. Political polls, it's like opening the oven door. You know when you're cooking a meat loaf and you keep opening the oven door and it's never done, and all the time -- every time.

GUILFOYLE: That's a man phrase.

GUTFELD: In every time you open it, all you get is hot air. Sometimes you got to leave the oven door closed, let the polls rise.

BOLLING: Obviously, vaulting competition at a strip club in Warsaw.

GUTFELD: So that.

BOLLING: That's -- you could go a lot of ways with that.

GUTFELD: A lot of polls.

BOLLING: You left yourself a fire escape on that.

GUTFELD: There's a lot.

BOLLING: Very good. That was good.

PERINO: Let me go to Eric and mention this. So that --

GUILFOYLE: Please make sense.


PERINO: I'm going to try.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Don't worry about it.

GUTFELD: Because you didn't see Spinal Tap, that's not my fault.

GUILFOYLE: You left me at Warsaw. What can I say? Go ahead.

PERINO: OK. We're gonna back.

GUTFELD: Shut up. Shut up.

PERINO: To the polls. More my comfort zone than the Spinal Tap movie. OK, in August of 2011 -- so four years ago, Quinnipiac showed at this point in the race, Rick Perry, leading the field after a month of, there's a lot of buzz about his candidacy. The top five were Perry, Romney, Palin, Bachmann and Rand Paul. Santorum who won Iowa and Newt Gingrich, who won South Carolina, weren't even listed on that poll. So to Marco Rubio's point, maybe.

BOLLING: It's too early to call, too early to call the race.

PERINO: It's too little too early to say, 16 months ahead, yeah.

BOLLING: Too early to call Donald Trump the declared winner. I will tell you, I agree with that. That's very early, but all the things that have gone on over the last five -- that was in the race six weeks now?


BOLLING: Every time he says something, whether it's McCain, whether it's about illegal immigrants.

PERINO: Immigration.

BOLLING: Everyone says that's the end. I remember the Trump is toast headline. I remember Don Voyage headlines and he keeps extending his lead. I think last night, though, not this Quinnipiac poll today, but last night's poll -- yesterday afternoon's poll, changed the debate a little bit. I think the left started to say, oh maybe he's not the clown show after all, when he took 26 percent in Florida. That was -- remember, Jeb was -- I think Jeb was at -- one was at 12 and one was at 20, I think Jeb was at 20 and Marco Rubio at 12. So a state where a senator and a former governor come from, Trump takes 25 percent of the vote. Watching TV today.

PERINO: I think that some people would quibble with that poll with.

BOLLING: Oh fine, fine. However, I will tell you. Watching TV this morning, you listen to the left -- that the pundits on the left change their tune. They said you know what? He may not be the clown. He may be here for awhile. The numbers are bearing that out. So whether or not you like Donald Trump or not, he is resonating, so -- and I think that's what he is. But I agree with you, it is too.

PERINO: Too early.

PERINO: Too early to call him the winner.

PERINO: Let me go to you, Kimberly. One of the things that come with being the frontrunner is that you get more scrutiny, and he actually does have some problems in the poll. Let's pull up this one. This is the same Quinnipiac poll. He has the highest number of unfavorability and the highest number of untrustworthiness, right up there with the same numbers with Hillary Clinton. So you have the frontrunner for the democrats and the frontrunner for the republicans, both considered the most untrustworthy of the campaign.

GUILFOYLE: Sounds like an Ultimate Fighting Champion.


GUILFOYLE: Put them in the ring together and see how it works out. Look, he's obviously has -- because he has a great name recognition, he's very well-known, so people have a lot of it, you know, opinions about him. So whether or not he's gonna be able to shift some people his way, but right now, in terms of the conservatives that are voting, he's still leading the way. You can't dismiss it outright all together. It is actually a sample of this moment in time and of the electorate and what people are starting to respond to. And some of it is that very populist message that he's putting forward. I don't know what he's going to do about, you know, the negatives or the unfavorable, that's going to be a little trickier. When that's going to matter the most, I think it's when it gets to the general election.

PERINO: And speaking of the general election then Juan, here's another one. I actually don't have this as a call for, but if you put Trump up against any of the democrats -- actually, they didn't do O'Malley, but Clinton, Biden.

WILLIAMS: Sanders.

PERINO: Who's not even in the race, and Sanders, you lose by double digits to both -- to all of them, but that's before the campaign even gets started. But that is also the snapshot in time.

WILLIAMS: Well, something for republicans to keep in mind because ultimately, republicans want to beat democrats, right?

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: And you can't beat democrats. What are you doing? You're running for second place. And it's like Larry Bird at the all star game, walks in the locker room and he says who's coming in second here in the three-point shooting contest? I think that's what's going on, but it's fun. It's fun.

GUILFOYLE: I like that.

WILLIAMS: And you know what?

PERINO: I didn't get it.

WILLIAMS: You know I thought the quote of the day.

GUILFOYLE: He thinks he's gonna win, he's like, I'm number one who's coming in second.

WILLIAMS: Yes, so who's coming in second?

BOLLING: I think that's funny how the people who are beating Hillary Clinton in the head-to-head matchups, so talking about the polls. But when they're getting smoked by Donald Trump, the polls don't matter. I mean.

WILLIAMS: That's not -- look.

BOLLING: it's either the polls are reflective of the American public.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

BOLLING: Or they're not.

WILLIAMS: No. What you got here is a very fragmented, divided republican party. I mean, right now, it's like two-thirds of Republican Party don't like the top three candidates on the republican side. But -- and the top candidate as Dana pointed out, you know what, what were the numbers? A third or two-thirds say they could never vote for the guy. That's republicans.

PERINO: That does the GOP voters are saying. And actually that number went up from May to.

WILLIAMS: Yes, so that's an indication. I thought the quote of the.

PERINO: There's also to about women.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, right.

PERINO: 37 percent of republican women said they could not vote for him. That is -- and if the election is -- if you have to win all the white women, right? So Romney wins the white women by a certain percentage, I think by 14 points.


PERINO: You actually -- you have to do.

WILLIAMS: And still the.

PERINO: As well in 2016 just demographically.

WILLIAMS: Right. And still didn't win one. So the quote of the day, though, I was going to say to Dana was, I thought came from John Weaver whose a consultant for John Kasich, the Ohio governor, now a candidate. He said, going into these debates as the candidates prepare, it's like a NASCAR driver preparing. Knowing that one of the drivers is going to be drunk because all of this is going to be about is Donald Trump and how you react to Trump. And if he attacks you or says something outrageous, how do you deal with it? That's what's going on right now.

PERINO: He put out a tweet today though, Greg, that said he plans not to be.

GUILFOYLE: What is that like? What is that take?

PERINO: He's not -- he plans not to insult anybody.

GUTFELD: Yes, and I would like.


GUTFELD: To Donald Trump.

PERINO: I mean, he said it. That's what he said.

GUTFELD: Yeah. To Donald Trump, I say you're welcome because obviously, he's been listening to me, and I've been telling him how important it is to balance out your gas with your guts, so that you can actually be articulate without being insulting, and also to be more persuasive in your points, rather than going for the easy outrage. and I think he's been reading my words closely. And I'm very grateful for that.

PERINO: I wouldn't doubt that. I wouldn't doubt that. Can we also talk about Hillary Clinton who did not do well in this poll.


PERINO: I think Eric, if you look at the numbers. She is just sort of -- maybe they think on the republic -- on a democratic side that, once they have an actual republican nominee to fight against.


PERINO: She will probably do better. But right now, Americans sort of like --


PERINO: Probably, not that into her.

BOLLING: Right. And don't forget, there's going to be a $2 billion war chest that she can spend once she needs to start focusing and -- on her opponent. Right now she has no reason to spend any money. She just can keep doing what she's doing.

PERINO: Yeah, yeah. You can't spend against 17 people.

BOLLING: Right. To stay low, figure out who the opponents gonna end up being. Oh, Kim, one quick point about this debate. You point out that years ago, Rick Perry was at the top of the list and then the debates happened.

PERINO: Its very first debate.

BOLLING: And that really.

PERINO: Or not the very first.

BOLLING: Right, but debate season kind of exposed a little weakness on his, and his poll numbers fell dramatically after that.


BOLLING: It will be interesting to see if he does come off the statesman, as Greg says, or the flame thrower as Juan is concerned with. My hunch -- and I've known him a long time is that, he's not going to change a bit. He's not -- because then he'll be accused of, oh, you're changing for the debates, are you? Which Donald Trump are you going to be? It seems like he's got one speed and one speed only. He kept -- he doesn't throttle it back for anyone, really.

GUTFELD: Can I just jump this on the Hillary thing? I was thinking about this. Do you really think Bill Clinton wants Hillary in the White House? Because if she becomes president, then think of all that attention that it brings to him and then he has to go back to watching Skinamax, his mistress can only bake so many cookies for the secret service. I mean he is hoping that her e-mails will preserve his females. I don't think he wants her to be president.

GUILFOYLE: OK, that's wrong.

GUTFELD: No? You don't.

GUILFOYLE: You know that's just wrong, but good. I mean everybody's got to participate.


GUTFELD: I right.

BOLLING: He didn't have eyeballs on him the last time, right?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. I mean, let's get -- yeah, let's get a grip here.

GUTFELD: You know -- yeah, he's on like a low fat diet. He's got no joy in his life.

WILLIAMS: All right, all right.

GUILFOYLE: I don't know.

WILLIAMS: I have a question for Ms. Perino here. So, I think it's very interesting about.

GUILFOYLE: Do you have another quote?

WILLIAMS: What? No, no, no. I was thinking about Trump and I was thinking well, OK, so he's a media sensation of '15, but what if he wasn't here? Do you think that Cruz, do you think Rubio -- who do you think would benefit most if the air starts to go out of the Trump balloon?

PERINO: Well, I think we have -- we might have time then for this last one which is the national candidate matchup. This is from Quinnipiac which is, Bush having a good summer, at least in this poll at beating her by like this one point. But Walker, I think might be the surprise beneficiary of having a pretty good summer because his numbers throughout this poll are actually pretty good. So I don't know. I couldn't say if Trump weren't there I think that Walker.

GUILFOYLE: Remember the secret plan.

PERINO: Walker actually had a good summer.

GUILFOYLE: That Walker is the one they're worried about now not Rubio.

BOLLING: Can you please.


BOLLING: Help me out with this? How in the same poll, in Quinnipiac poll, does Trump do so well against the field yet, individually against Hillary, he does poorly? So people are actually voting one way when it's against the GOP and another way, if it's up against Hillary?

GUTFELD: That's it.


GUTFELD: That's the best question. It is the best question. And it's -- and you have to think.

GUILFOYLE: What's the answer?

GUTFELD: The answer -- well, the answer is, you can't focus on who's ahead among the party, but who can beat her.


WILLIAMS: That's what I said earlier.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you, little oracle.

GUTFELD: How dare you call me little?

GUILFOYLE: No, it's from their movie the Matrix.

WILLIAMS: But that's what I said earlier, but the answer -- Eric, by the way, to your question, if you're polling different people.

BOLLING: OK. So, on the GOP side.

WILLIAMS: They don't.

BOLLING: You're polling only GOPers (ph)?


PERINO: So likely voters.


GUILFOYLE: Primary versus general election.

BOLLING: So you're saying that there is -- that would say that the democrats aren't as motivated for Hillary then, right?

PERINO: That's what I'm saying.

BOLLING: Am I doing the math right?



PERINO: Not yet.


WILLIAMS: Yeah. There's.

PERINO: Because energy and excitement on the republican side.


PERINO: The democratic side is there are sort like, I don't even have a race.

GUILFOYLE: It's kind of like Hillary is just not that into you.

WILLIAMS: How about a big, big moment is coming for republicans.

GUILFOYLE: Kind of like.

WILLIAMS: Called the debate, the first debate.


WILLIAMS: Don't miss it.

GUILFOYLE: Did you just make up your own tease to break?

PERINO: That is the week from today.

GUILFOYLE: Because that was weird.

PERINO: Everyone is excited. OK.


PERINO: So I'm not exactly sure what happened in that block.

GUILFOYLE: No one knows.

PERINO: Let us know if you thought it was good. We're gonna move on next so because the Senate is gearing up for a vote to defund Planned Parenthood as a fourth undercover video is released. Eric is gonna have all the details for you on that scandal, next. Stay tuned.


BOLLING: America, did you hear a lion was killed in Africa?


(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE): A very disturbing story, that Minnesota dentist who has provoked international outrage for hunting and killing a beloved African lion.

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE): That Minnesota dentist under fire for killing a protected lion.

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE): This Minnesota dentist has pretty much become the most hated man on the internet.

KEVIN TIBBLES, NBC NEWS NETWORK CORRESPONDENT: It's a story that has captured the world's attention, the beloved; the majestic lion by the name of Cecil.

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE): It's -- as if someone had killed Lassie.

(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE): The more you hear about the story, the more upsetting it is.


BOLLING: The big cat named Cecil or Cecil has dominated newscast on broadcasts networks this week. ABC, NBC and CBS spent more time on that story in one day, than they did on Planned Parenthood videos in three weeks. On Tuesday, they censored the third video that exposed Planned Parenthood's practice of selling aborted baby parts, but devoted 14 minutes over outrage to the American dentist who hunted animals overseas. Meanwhile, a fourth undercover video has just been released. This one shows a doctor discussing ways to avoid the perception of violating laws by selling fetal parts across states.


DR. SAVITA GINDE, VICE PRESIDENT AND MEDICAL DIRECTOR, PLANNED PARENTHOOD ROCKY MOUNTAINS: He's got it figured out that he knows that even if -- because we talked to him in the beginning, you know, we were like, "We don't want to get called on," you know, "selling fetal parts across the states."

BUYER: Neither do we, I mean --


GINDE: You know what? Like, no one wants to get.

BUYER: Right. So how do we protect ourselves from.

GINDE: So how do we protect ourselves from that?

BUYER: And you feel confident that they're building those layers and.

GINDE: I'm confident that our legal will make sure that we are not put in that situation.


BOLLING: All right, Greg. Planned Parenthood, big story, but the broadcast networks showing their liberal bias?

GUTFELD: Yeah, but you know, both things -- I think we can agree are wrong, but it's a question of proportion and priority. Killing the lion, bad, dismembering the unborn, worse. But is -- why our people saying that?

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: And that is because big game hunting is not camouflaged by euphemisms. The lion isn't called tissue. And shooting the lion isn't called a medical procedure driven by choice. Planned Parenthood's entire existence is basically based on keeping people in the dark through euphemism. You don't call it genocide, you call it reproductive health. So that's why Planned Parenthood has -- nobody really thought. I don't think many people know what we're even talking about, dismemberment because they've been told for decades, it's here productive health.

GUILFOYLE: Right because it felt (ph).

GUTFELD: When you kill a lion.


GUTFELD: You saw the lion and you know that it's dead.

GUILFOYLE: Because it's cloaked in like, you know, semantics that are acceptable.


GUILFOYLE: That's what it is. It's like safe. That doesn't offend you. It's not jarring when they talk about reproductive health choices or women's rights or women's health or being supportive of women's health, right?

WILLIAMS: I agree.

GUILFOYLE: That's what you do over here.


WILLIAMS: I hope so.


GUILFOYLE: But you know, that's why, it's not actually -- it's not accurate. It's not depicting.

WILLIAMS: Of course it is accurate.

GUILFOYLE: What's happening there, no.

GUTFELD: Could you imagine hunters doing that with lions?

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: May I bring this to Dana. Dana, when they pulled the video, they said they're not going to show the video anymore. In fact, there's a court order saying they're not allowed to show the video, that third video that showed the body parts. I'm telling you, it's the most grotesque thing I've ever seen in my life. And again, I've seen the ISIS beheading videos. This is far worse. But by mandating that the video can't be seen, as Greg points out, if what's unseen is unthought-of.

PERINO: It's the -- censorship is really interesting, right, when it comes from that point of view. They're all for transparency on other things but not this. And I actually thought of another comparison today. I can see the coverage of the lion story and why it's compelling, it drives ratings and all that people feel strongly about it. And it's just as legitimate and to a degree more so, to feel so disturbed and disgusted by the Planned Parenthood videos. However, do you remember -- just in say 2005, the world lost its collective mind about three terrorists who underwent enhanced interrogation techniques. Pulitzers were won. Movies were written. You couldn't find any newscast that wouldn't talk about torture for years, about three terrorists who were plotting an attack on Americans.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, who had it done.

PERINO: They will not cover the Planned Parenthood videos. That to me is a better comparison.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. Who got water boarded, I see.

BOLLING: Juan, there are literally -- and I would even go so far as to say, billions of advocates for Cecil the Lion, but where are the advocates for the babies that are being torn apart?

WILLIAMS: Well, this is the weakness in this whole presentation by you guys. You know, this is so highly politicized. You know.

GUTFELD: That's your answer for everything, Juan.

WILLIAMS: No, it's not. No. This is what -- let me just say. Dana hit it, right? If you're running a TV network right now, you can put a show on or a segment on about the lion, everybody watches. Children, children, Greg, will tune in and watch and pay attention and then tweet about it and e-mail and whatever. You start with this stuff with this, what you described, Eric, as repugnant, awful videos.

BOLLING: Grotesque.

WILLIAMS: Grotesque. And I think a lot of people turn away from the TV.

GUTFELD: That's not a political decision.

WILLIAMS: Well you can.

GUTFELD: That's a cowardly decision.

WILLIAMS: No, it's not.

GUTFELD: Oh, I can't handle it because it's.

WILLIAMS: No. I wouldn't even.


WILLIAMS: You asked me about.

BOLLING: It's not even cowardly.

WILLIAMS: Television is what we're discussion here. What is.

PERINO: What did he asked about?

GUILFOYLE: No. What is he is talking about?

WILLIAMS: Because you said, oh, this is getting so much more attention from the network.

GUTFELD: If it is not camouflaged by euphemism.

WILLIAMS: Well, no, it's not. It's something that I think that if I'm a parent sitting at home, I would say, hey, do you -- are you aware that people go out and kill.


GUILFOYLE: I know, but Juan.

BOLLING: But Juan.

GUILFOYLE: That is taking OK.

BOLLING: You don't have to see the video.

GUILFOYLE: I don't know what (inaudible).

BOLLING: There are ways to see the video without seeing the grotesqueness of it.


BOLLING: They blur a lot of the pictures and you still get the idea.

GUILFOYLE: I know, but guys.

BOLLING: Why won't broadcast those shows.

GUILFOYLE: That's like saying, oh cover -- you know, Cecil, Cecil, whatever, he's got an agent by now. Cover that.


GUILFOYLE: But don't cover the holocaust. I know. Poor little guy.

WILLIAMS: Oh, come on.

PERINO: I think it's not what you.

GUILFOYLE: Poor baby. No, but it's true.

WILLIAMS: That's not true.

GUILFOYLE: You're saying because something is repugnant this way. Oh, therefore people.

WILLIAMS: No, no. You asked.


WILLIAMS: The way that we.

GUILFOYLE: Do you have a responsibility.

WILLIAMS: The way that we frame that is.

GUILFOYLE: To deliver the news and show what's happening.

WILLIAMS: No. The way we frame this issue is, and this has been tweeted out by republicans who are trying to get attention for their campaign. Oh, why is the media not paying more attention to these Planned Parenthood videos? First of all, they've been out forever now. So whatever impact they've had.

BOLLING: Whatever? It's a couple of weeks.

WILLIAMS: And the second.

BOLLING: I got this.

WILLIAMS: About a week.

BOLLING: I got to get this in you, Juan. I hate to cut you off. I'm sorry.

WILLIAMS: Now go ahead.

BOLLING: I need to respond to this. White House --

WILLIAMS: I have custody in the liberal in this.

BOLLING: The White House today, was asked again about the controversy and it's still defending Planned Parenthood and discrediting the video makers. Listen.


JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I think Planned Parenthood has been quite specific about the policies and procedures that they have in place. And I know that they have described those policy and procedures as the -- as living up to the highest ethical standards. Based on the -- you know essentially, fraudulent way in which these videos have been released. There's not a lot of evidence right now that Planned Parenthood hasn't lived up to those standards.


BOLLING: So Dana, what if there's more evidence? How -- is this is wide.

GUILFOYLE: How much more do you need?

BOLLING: Decision on their part to be defending Planned Parenthood?

PERINO: It's not a wise decision. But wisdom has nothing -- has no play here. It's politics. The democrats have said, let's circle the wagon. It was a little - bit of monkey wrench thrown in by Hillary Clinton yesterday who said, "I'm disturbed. I think that everybody that performs these services should be investigated."



PERINO: Today, now she's back on the thing -- well, let's not defund Planned Parenthood because I think they realized on the politics of it. They're gonna try to bury the story. But because the videos exist and because there.

BOLLING: There's more.

PERINO: We know there are more of them.

BOLLING: For sure.

PERINO: Why not give yourself a little bit of a buffer at the White House because you're not just representing the Democratic Party. You represent all of America.


PERINO: And there should be a little bit of sensitivity. Just a little bit.

GUILFOYLE: Are you in for the website?

PERINO: On the podium.

GUILFOYLE: Can we talk about the website?

BOLLING: I'll talk about whatever you want to talk about.

GUILFOYLE: What about the website? The fact that Planned Parenthood who is trying to bury this and they trying to circle the wagon so they can keep this political, you know money machine going that they have is now saying that their website has been the victim of, you know, extremist hackers. Oh, you guys are pretty good. Who's in your IT Department because you're still able to post a message, blaming it on extremists and get the message out there.

GUTFELD: The best part of it - yeah. They were more concerned about the hacking of a website and not the hacking of fetuses.

WILLIAMS: You know.

GUTFELD: That's where it is, Juan.

WILLIAMS: No, it's not.

GUTFELD: Let me finish. I -- don't tell me that I'm politicizing this issue.

WILLIAMS: No, Dana told you that.

GUTFELD: What I'm trying to point out is that they are trying to dehumanize what essentially are humans.


GUTFELD: In order to make the problem more acceptable to their damaged souls.

WILLIAMS: No, they're not. And let me just say, this is such a one-sided presentation. You know, somehow, you lose sight of what is going on.

GUTFELD: Because it's called fair and balanced, Juan.

WILLIAMS: No, it's not.

GUTFELD: Nobody is doing this.


GUTFELD: That's why we do it.

WILLIAMS: No. We -- you can tell people the truth.


WILLIAMS: The truth can be fair and balance.


GUTFELD: What is the lie here? Where -- what if I lied?


GUTFELD: What if I lied?

WILLIAMS: The truth is that you -- people are doing scientific research with fetal tissue and it's not as if -- no, this is brand-new news. This is something funded by.

GUTFELD: Do you find that tissue valuable, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Can I finish that.

GUTFELD: Do you find that tissue valuable?

WILLIAMS: Yes because guess what.

GUTFELD: But the baby isn't but the tissue is.

WILLIAMS: It's not a baby. It's fetal tissue.


WILLIAMS: And let me just say this.


GUILFOYLE: It was a baby until it was murdered.


BOLLING: You've done the same thing that everyone else that.

WILLIAMS: Go ahead.

BOLLING: It sat in that seat.


BOLLING: And conflate the issue of science with the issue of profiteering on the babies.

WILLIAMS: There's no --

BOLLING: On the baby?

WILLIAMS: By the way.

BOLLING: Guess what.

WILLIAMS: You are absolutely wrong.

BOLLING: This baby.

WILLIAMS: Absolutely and thoroughly wrong. When you said sell, nobody sells.

BOLLING: They're selling.

WILLIAMS: That would be illegal.

BOLLING: This last video shows them saying.


BOLLING: Well, hear it. I'll tell you what we will do.


BOLLING: We will sell it.

GUILFOYLE: Making money.

BOLLING: Part by part instead of full.


BOLLING: Piece of tissue.

WILLIAMS: No. they're talking about.

BOLLING: They're now taking pieces apart.

WILLIAMS: Look -- all right.

BOLLING: And selling them individually.

WILLIAMS: We're talking about allowing people who suffer from Alzheimer's, from diabetes.


GUTFELD: That' why.


GUTFELD: So what -- let me ask you this.

WILLIAMS: That they can ask some help in terms of.

GUTFELD: OK, Juan, let's go to the ultimate conclusion there. What if they suffer from malnutrition? Perhaps, they should eat the baby.

WILLIAMS: Oh my, gosh, Greg. It's not.

GUTFELD: Yes. That's where you're going. You're saying.

WILLIAMS: That is not.

GUTFELD: Use fetal tissue.

GUILFOYLE: No, you're justifying it.

GUTFELD: From medical procedure.

GUILFOYLE: You're justifying it.

WILLIAMS: All right. This is not something to be mocked.

GUTFELD: We got it if it's (inaudible). You get it back to me.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

WILLIAMS: It's really sad.


WILLIAMS: That you guys have to feel.

PERINO: You become the disgusting one.

WILLIAMS: You need to pile on here instead of.

GUTFELD: I'm the disgusting one?

GUILFOYLE: Listen. Juan, what he's trying.

WILLIAMS: I would agree with that.

GUILFOYLE: What he's trying to say to you on this continuum, when you look at it from an ethical perspective, or it put some morality into it. When are you going to say enough is enough? If you're justifying it by any means, saying in fact, that it's OK for medical research and throwing in people with Alzheimer, et cetera, when the science exist, that we discussed on this show to do it without sacrificing babies.

BOLLING: And to leave it right there and don't forget, the law is on the side of not Planned Parenthood -- the video maker. We gonna leave it right there.

Coming up, a white campus police officer shot and killed an unarmed black man in a traffic stop in Ohio. Was it murder? The defense and the prosecutor's cases, coming up.


GUILFOYLE: The University of Cincinnati police officer charged with murdering an unarmed black man pleaded not guilty today at his arraignment hearing. Bond for 25-year-old Ray Tensing was set at $1 million.

Tensing shot 43-year-old driver Samuel DuBose on July 19 after pulling him over for missing a front license plate. The incident was recorded on the officer's body camera. This is what happened. A warning: this is disturbing.


RAY TENSING, FORMER UNIVERSITY OF CINCINNATI POLICE OFFICER: I'm asking you a direct question. Do you have your license on you?

SAMUEL DUBOSE, STOPPED FOR MISSING LICENSE PLATE: I thought I did. What did you pull me over for?

TENSING: Again, the front tag.

DUBOSE: But it's not illegal to not have a front tag. It's just...

TENSING: Actually it is. I'm going to ask you again. Do you have a license on you?

DUBOSE: I have a license. You could run my name.

TENSING: It's not on you, then?

DUBOSE: I don't think I have it on me.

TENSING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Go ahead and take your seat belt off. Take your seat belt off. Stop. Stop!



GUILFOYLE: The Hamilton County prosecutor will be using the tape as key evidence at the trial. He appeared on FOX News this morning.


JOE DETERS, HAMILTON COUNTY, OHIO, PROSECUTOR: It just turns my stomach that a police officer would act like this. Some of the best people I work with are police officers. And all of them in the last 24 hours have come up to me and said, "Look, this was horrible."

He needs to be held accountable. He is a murderer. I mean, there's no other way to describe it.


GUILFOYLE: Tensing's attorney says his client feared for his life and did not intend to kill DuBose.

All right. A lot of facial expressions around the table here on that. You said, Eric, this is a tough one.

BOLLING: It's tough. Because look, first of all it's a tragedy. I mean, there's no other -- another instance where someone had a missing front license plate and ends up dead.

If you watch the body cams -- if this doesn't tell you there should be body cameras on both sides of the debate. Good cop, bad cop, no matter what, the body cam will end up being the most important piece of evidence in the trial.

But everyone is rushing. This prosecutor just said the cop is guilty of murder. He's already kind of, you know, indicted him. But -- and I'm not defending this at all. But people have to realize you can't resist arrest. And this guy is taking off.

I don't think that cop was fearing for his life. So I think he'll probably be found guilty.

GUILFOYLE: I hear what you're saying. You're saying it's unnecessary. Why put yourself also in danger? Yes.

BOLLING: Time and time again. It always comes down to someone getting hurt, getting killed. Bad decisions by a cop, but those decisions wouldn't have been made if the perp didn't run away. I'm just -- can you imagine what society would be like if everyone thought, "If I just run away, that cop can't chase me"? We'd be a lawless society.

GUILFOYLE: No, it's very difficult. And again, this is all about what's probable cause to pull somebody over, right? And it's front license plate, broken windshield, license registration, et cetera, et cetera. So, you know, look at the tags on the back of the car. That is a justifiable stop. Just comply, please. Listen, like don't lose your life, because you don't know who's on the other end of it.

I mean, it shouldn't be this way. What the officer did was wrong. A jury will decide ultimately, though.

Go ahead, Greg.

GUTFELD: Yes, I mean, I couldn't even understand what was going on in the video, to be honest with you. I've looked at it like four times, and I still can't figure it out.

The job of a police officer is, unlike the rest of us have to insert themselves into risk. And you never know how it's going to end. And whether he made a mistake, he's going to pay for it. Seems like he made a big mistake. And the jury will decide.


PERINO: I have a question, actually, for you, Kimberly. Because the prosecutor obviously feels strongly. But he says that Tensing is a murderer. Is that unusual for a prosecutor, like even before it goes to trial, to be that out front public doing media appearances saying this?

GUILFOYLE: You know, if he doesn't feel that he has the evidence...

PERINO: Could that harm the -- could that harm his case?

GUILFOYLE: I think that it's unnecessary to make that, you know, strong of a statement. Let the facts, let the case, you know, and the evidence there speak for itself. You want to be careful that you're not poisoning the jury pool.

PERINO: Right. That's what I was wondering.

GUILFOYLE: It's really unnecessary, especially when the case goes up on appeal or there's issues as to whether or not a change of venue should be granted, et cetera.

Put your case in. The stronger the facts are there, you should achieve justice. You don't need to make sensationalized statements.

GUTFELD: He might have been worried about what could happen if he didn't come out strongly enough, in terms of protests and things like that.

WILLIAMS: How about being worried about the fact that this guy said he was dragged by the car, and the video shows that he was not dragged by the car.

Now, his lawyer, the police officer's lawyer, says today he had fear of his life. Well, again, the video does not demonstrate...

GUTFELD: Yes, true.

WILLIAMS: ... that he has any reason to fear for his life.

But you know what's curious to me? Is everybody is like oh, what about the officer? And, you know, it's so difficult to be a police officer. You know what? I think that that guy in the car demonstrates how difficult it is to be driving along and have somebody harassing you who has authority and has a gun. I think that's pretty threatening.

And I think at some point, you know, people have to wake up in this country. I mean, the guy was shot. He shot him in the head. That's pretty horrible.


WILLIAMS: That's death.



BOLLING: OK. There you go.

GUILFOYLE: Stay tuned. We've got a lot more heading your way on "The Five."


GUTFELD: Because New York is the Petri dish for the whole country, it pays to see how it treats businessmen and thugs.

Restaurant owner Sebastian Rosario was fined 5 grand by the city Human Rights Commission for placing an ad for a waitress, because it discriminates against men. Another restaurant paid out 5 G's for saying "hostess."

Meanwhile, when an Indian cafe tried to hire an experienced Indian server, that was discrimination based on national origin. They got fined thousands. God forbid an Indian joint wants someone who knows the cuisine.

Now, the city snagged these people by reading Craigslist ads. Which makes you wonder if I search Craigslist for a tall white, female masseuse, can I be fined for racism or heightism or sexism? Seriously, what do I have against short, Filipino males?

You also wonder if a restaurant placed an ad that read, "Only homeless need apply," would they get fined? Probably not. But if they said, "No homeless apply," they would be transient bigots.

For as bureaucrats use language to punish the lawful, they use tolerance to coddle the troubled.

Last week two people were brutally attacked by transients here separately, one stabbed with scissors. In New York, it's easier to get beaten than open a business.

And so we have a greedy cycle where Human Rights Commissions fine citizens in order to pay their own salaries so they can employ more Human Rights Commissions. It's a bounty system where the prizes are business owner's heads. And so as restaurants go broke, tourists get stabbed. That's human rights in today's New York. And perhaps tomorrow's America.

So K.G., an Indian restaurant cannot hire an Indian waiter.

GUILFOYLE: I don't get it.

GUTFELD: That's incredible.

GUILFOYLE: I don't know how to help you here.

PERINO: You can hire one; you can't advertise for one.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly. You have to use code word, euphemisms.

GUILFOYLE: Can you say, like, chicken tikka masala anymore? Is that against this, too?

GUTFELD: I'm insulted.

GUILFOYLE: It's so tasty.

GUTFELD: I love Indian food, but my stomach doesn't.

GUILFOYLE: Here we go again. It's like "Groundhog Day." Fantastic.

GUTFELD: You know, it's like they find a shortcut into your body where they bypass everything.

GUILFOYLE: Sometimes it comes right out your mouth.


All right. Well Juan, I didn't -- Juan, is it racist for me as an owner of a Mexican restaurant to prefer a Mexican chef?

WILLIAMS: Unless the Mexican chef knows Mexican cuisine.


WILLIAMS: But you're making that assumption. It could be that that it's a woman or it could be an Irish guy that's a great Mexican chef.

GUTFELD: That's true.

WILLIAMS: So that's a key.

BOLLING: Are you kidding me?

GUILFOYLE: We're getting so ridiculous.

BOLLING: It's the...


BOLLING: That's why businesses are being driven out. They make fun of us for calling it regulation nation and we should be pushing back on regulation. These are good examples why people should be able to hire someone who speaks the language of the food that they are selling, speaks the language of probably half the people in the kitchen. Yes, they should be able to do it. It's just baffling. And they're getting away with it.

WILLIAMS: This is so ridiculous. But I think you think you're right.

BOLLING: I know I'm right.

WILLIAMS: You're wrong!

BOLLING: I know I'm right.

WILLIAMS: You're absolutely -- you know what's interesting is stereotypes...?

BOLLING: You're going to go to a Mexican restaurant and get some food that doesn't taste anything like you're expecting because the person that was hired wasn't Mexican and...

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. This is like Donald Trump, who said he doesn't want any black person counting his money. He only wants Jewish people, short Jewish guys counting his money. People are like what are you talking about? So that's the way you...


GUILFOYLE: What are you talking about? What does that have to do with Chipotle?

WILLIAMS: What I said to Greg, you know, so it could be an Irish guy who knows how to cook Mexican food and does a great job. Are you going to say you're out of here, you Irish guy?

PERINO: You guys have -- I think, Juan, you're missing the...

GUILFOYLE: The Irish are good at a lot of things. Thank you for that.

WILLIAMS: You're very welcome.

PERINO: This is a way for the city to make money, more money. This is a way for them to pay for their salaries. If you look at these articles, the Human Rights Commission in New York, they are being attacked not by business owners but by people who want them to do more.


PERINO: Therefore they're going out and trying to find -- combing Craigslist so they can find a way to fine these business owners more. The Indian restaurant had to hire lawyers.

GUTFELD: Then it closed. It closed down.

WILLIAMS: It closed?

PERINO: Great job.

GUILFOYLE: How sad is that?

BOLLING: I'm going to head over to Starbucks after this and get a tall hot blond.

GUTFELD: There you go.

GUILFOYLE: How is that different from every Thursday?

BOLLING: Tall is the size of a coffee. And hot is, like, the temperature, and blond is the type of coffee.

PERINO: You know they had to do a ton of market research before they did that on purpose.

GUILFOYLE: I'm getting a lawyer immediately. I want one that says, "Tall hot brunette."


WILLIAMS: Yes, you get it. I'm with you.

GUILFOYLE: You want that.

PERINO: Good reason for all of us to pay attention before these laws are passed. Because now it's passed, and they have staff; and they have to fund it somehow. So they're trying to find any way to try to meet their salaries.

GUTFELD: All right. Going to end on that note.

"Rolling Stones" managing editor stepping down as a lawsuit is filed over its fake campus rape story. Juan has it all next.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes.


WILLIAMS: Last year "Rolling Stone went to press with a story that was flat-out wrong. It accused members of a University of Virginia fraternity of a gang rape that never took place. "Rolling Stone" retracted the article but did not fire any of the staffers involved.

Now, three members from that fraternity are suing the magazine, its publisher, and the reporter who wrote the story. And in related news, managing editor Will Dana, who helped edit the original article, has just announced he's leaving "Rolling Stone."

So Greg, former editor here, what do you think?

GUTFELD: This happens a lot. When you want to believe in something because it's based on your own assumptions, you're willing to overlook obvious flaws in the truth.

They wanted to indict the system. So what they did was they bought bogus stats of a debunked study and indulged a fantasist, a woman who made up everything. That's leftism in a nutshell. You lie to get power.

But the first step is wanting to believe in the lie. And then you watch your hopes fall apart. You cling to it like it's a lifeboat, and then this is what happens.

WILLIAMS: So Jann Wenner, the editor -- the editor of "Rolling Stone" -- is it publisher, his title?

GUTFELD: Jann Wenner.

WILLIAMS: What's his title, publisher?


WILLIAMS: The publisher says it has nothing to do -- nobody's been fired. This guy is leaving. You know, it's kind of an internal affair. What do you think?

GUILFOYLE: That's called whitewashing it.


GUTFELD: That's racist.

WILLIAMS: No, but I think he's hiding.

GUILFOYLE: Take it up with Juan. It's his segment.

WILLIAMS: What do you think, though, is really going on here? Because the young men in the fraternity say they have been humiliated. Their names will be forever associated with this rape. So do you think they have a case?

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I do. I think -- it's like Duke lacrosse all over again. So there has to be a correction, right, course correction in the universe, when things like this happen. There has to be repercussions. There are now repercussions that we are witnessing. I think it's a little bit late, but I think they were trying to avoid more media coverage about it and sort of, like, do this down the road so that it would get less attention. But we're covering it, because we should.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think we should. But what do you think, Eric? Do you think that, in fact, there's a good case here?

BOLLING: The three guys probably have a case. But they're only suing for 75 grand. So even if they win, what, 225,000 bucks. Wait until the national...

GUILFOYLE: Moral victory.

BOLLING: No. Wait until the national fraternities, whatever frat they were part of, sues "Rolling Stone," as well. And then, if UVA had any guts, they would do it, too. Because I'm sure they've been adversely affected, as well.

WILLIAMS: I think the dean -- I think the dean is suing.

BOLLING: Oh, good.

WILLIAMS: Because they made the dean out to be, like, you know facilitating or allowing this to take place, Dana.


WILLIAMS: I think the school's involved.

GUILFOYLE: Their board, their regents.

PERINO: I think "Rolling Stone" handled it poorly from the start.


PERINO: They should have fired someone. They should have apologized right away. But instead, they tried to close ranks, because I think what Greg said is they actually -- even if the story was not true, they believed it anyway, even after it was proven that it wasn't true.

GUTFELD: It was true somewhere.

WILLIAMS: You know what? This is one issue where I actually agree with you.

GUILFOYLE: But it's true. Heads should have rolled in there.

WILLIAMS: I just can't understand how so many levels of journalistic diligence went by the wayside, unless it's the case that, as you said, they want to believe it. This is liberal bias gone bad.

BOLLING: Or it came from the top down.

WILLIAMS: The top down?


WILLIAMS: What do you mean, top down?

BOLLING: Well, it wasn't the reporter, necessarily. Maybe the reporter's told to go get that -- go find that story for us.

GUILFOYLE: By that, meaning the editor.

WILLIAMS: But why would you -- even if you said that...

BOLLING: Is that that ludicrous to say?

WILLIAMS: But even if you believe that, why is it that you wouldn't prove this? You can't run lies.

BOLLING: To sell magazines.

WILLIAMS: Oh, man. Well, anyway, as you can tell, we have unity, happiness here on the set. "One More Thing" up next.

GUILFOYLE: Kind of like "Special Report," right?



PERINO: Time now for "One More Thing." I wish you could have heard that commercial break.


PERINO: Greg, you get to go first.

GUTFELD: You know, whenever I'm out on the road talking to the common people -- just kidding, of course. I love you.

PERINO: You don't know any common people.

GUTFELD: People ask me two questions. A, one, what's that smell? And two, how do you prepare your monologues? And how do you prepare your thoughts for the show? Like how do you -- how are you so persuasive? And handsome?

I put it together in a book, "How to Be Right." It's coming out. You can go to Go to That's my web site. This is how I explain how I do what I do in order to make America a better place than it was before I was born. Thank you, America.

GUILFOYLE: Was that a joke?

GUTFELD: It's a real book, Kimberly.

PERINO: It's a real book. Open it up.

GUILFOYLE: Are there any words in there?


PERINO: We had good news today from someone we all love. President George H.W. Bush tweeted out a little picture. You know, he's got a little cute sense of humor. He said, "Who knew jumping out of planes was safer than getting out of bed? Thanks to all of you for your kind get-well messages." He's wearing a neck brace, says he goes through some physical therapy. But he's doing better. And we wish him all the best.

GUILFOYLE: What a cutie.

PERINO: I know. Kimberly, you're next.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, you remember the viral sensation, Grumpy Cat? Take a look.

There little Grumpy is. Now meet Earl, the grumpy puppy.


GUILFOYLE: He's a pug and a beagle. I think he's actually kind of adorable. A beagle mix. Now, his owners say he's actually a very friendly puppy. Don't let the looks fool you. And he loves meeting new friends and snuggling.

So it's just because of his little underbite, like a dental issue and wrinkles, so that's a problem. But anyway, let's have a little contest about who looks grumpier.

GUTFELD: He looks a little like Charles...

GUILFOYLE: It's you! Who wants to vote for Greg?

PERINO: I vote for Greg.

GUILFOYLE: This is so funny, because Dana did it. Dana is like, "Oh, it's Greg, but you weren't in the photo, so then I added you."

GUTFELD: That's sweet.

WILLIAMS: Why are you picking on him today?

PERINO: Oh, it's so much fun to pick on Greg.

GUILFOYLE: That was a tag team. That was like a femme tag team.

PERINO: All right, Eric.

BOLLING: OK. So guess what today was? Today was the first day of training camp for the Patriots. Look how it went down for Tom Brady.




BOLLING: That wasn't piped-in applause and clapping. They were very happy to see him. By the way, he went 27 for 30 on his first day. Two of three passes that were incomplete were drops, and he was named, I guess, practice player of the day.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, come on.


PERINO: Practice player of the day? They actually have that? God, this is like -- this is like worse than kindergarten graduation.

BOLLING: I may have made that up.

WILLIAMS: I hope you did.

GUILFOYLE: Did they check the balls? That's all we want.

PERINO: Juan, close us out here.

WILLIAMS: Well, let me just say if you thought Earl was cute, take a look at what this guy caught. This is in Stuart, Florida. This guy caught this 412-pound fish, a grouper.

PERINO: Grumpy grouper.

WILLIAMS: Seven feet long. He was not even in a boat. He was on that surfboard-looking thing like a paddle boat, and he catches a 7-foot-long grouper.

PERINO: Did he release him?

WILLIAMS: He did release.

PERINO: Or else it could have led the nightly news.

WILLIAMS: Because you're so sensitive right now.


WILLIAMS: You are. You are.

PERINO: OK. That's it for us. Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" is next.

GUTFELD: Grouper.

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