Daily Beast reporter defends article about Donald Trump's divorce

Tim Mak fires back at critics on 'The Kelly File'


This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," July 28, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, FOX HOST: Breaking tonight, new fallout from a controversial article about GOP front-runner Donald Trump and spousal rape allegations raised by his wife during their divorce proceedings nearly 30 years ago.

Welcome to ‘The Kelly File,’ everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. The story broke at "The Daily Beast" website a little before 9 p.m. last night. The headline quoted, Ivana Trump saying Donald Trump made me feel, quote, "violated during sex" and describing a physical attack by Donald Trump that sounded a lot like spousal rape. Hundreds of media outlets ran with the story which ‘The Kelly File’ raised questions about last night including network news operations and the major papers in New York, L.A., Washington and beyond.

And then a dramatic twist. Ivana Trump herself put out a statement earlier today saying, quote, "I have recently read some comments attributed to me from nearly 30 years ago at a time of very high tension during my divorce from Donald. The story is totally without merit. Donald and I are the best of friends and together have raised three children that we love and are very proud of. I have nothing but fondness for Donald and wish him the best of luck on his campaign." Despite that statement, the Daily Beast is standing by its story.

Tonight, we are joined by Tim Max, the senior Congressional correspondent for "The Daily Beast" who wrote this piece and Howie Kurtz, host of "Media Buzz" here on FNC who also covered the Trump divorce extensively as a reporter for "The Washington Post." We begin tonight with Tim.

Tim, thank you for being here. You are under fire for writing a piece about a man's divorce, allegations made in it from three decades ago. Why did you think this was relevant?

TIM MAX, "THE DAILY BEAST" REPORTER: Well, I think it's relevant because Donald Trump introduced his presidential campaign by making these accusations against Mexican immigrants saying many of the people who cross the border were rapists. I think it's worth looking at whether or not there have been any accusations or allegations made in the past about him on that matter.

KELLY: So, did you look to see whether anybody had ever accused him of murder or committing other crimes? I mean, this is, it is a statement of fact that some of the people who cross the southern border are rapists and murderers, so why does that suddenly draw into -- make relevant any allegation that's been made against the presidential candidate?

MAX: Well, look, like you mentioned, Donald Trump is the republican front- runner. He deserves to be looked at. His history should be looked at.
And I think what's important here is that Ivana Trump did make these statements about an incident in 1989. And she acknowledged them again in a book that was published in 1993. We're simply looking at those facts. And I think with his presidential campaign, there's new relevance to them.

KELLY: Uh-mm. Well, there's no question. Now she says the story is false. But it is worth pointing out. This comes from a deposition in a divorce proceeding where, you know, the book that cites the deposition was taking court documents and her own testimony. So it appears she may have softened on this issue over the years. But that doesn't answer the question about whether your reporting is fair or relevant. Because as I pointed out here on the air last night, having practiced law for ten years, divorce proceedings are notoriously ugly. And spouses often -- often -- say things that aren't true and that they later live to regret. And how did you account for that reality in your reporting?

MAX: Yes, I think it's certainly relevant for the reasons I described.
It's fair. And it's factual. I mean --

KELLY: But you're not answering my question.

MAX: Sure. I mean, I think that we counted for it by looking at the context of the issue. I mean, if Ivana Trump now currently has reconciled with Donald Trump, I think we need to acknowledge that when we see her make these statements saying that it has no merit.  

KELLY: Did you reach out to her for comment?

MAX: Of course we did.

KELLY: And she didn't give it to you?

MAX: She did not give it to. And I reached out again today and I haven't heard from her.

KELLY: All right. Now, let's talk about what you did do, because you spoke with a representative for the Trump organization. A guy named Michael Cohen, an attorney for Mr. Trump, and he directly threatened you.
I want the viewers to hear what he said. This is one of the many things.
He said, quote, "I will make sure that you and I meet one day." This is if you publish it. While we're in the courthouse. "And then I will take you for every penny you still don't have and I will come after your "Daily Beast" and everyone else that you possibly know. So, I'm warning you, tread very f-ing lightly because what I'm going to do to you is going to be f-ing disgusting. You understand me?" And went on to say, "I'm going to mess your life up as long as you're on this f-ing planet," and on it went on from there. Now not taking a position on whether the report was fair or not, Tim, your reaction to that kind of language and threat from a man directly representing a presidential contender?

MAX: Yes, I mean, I think it raises questions about the sorts of people Donald Trump has surrounded himself with. I think one other point that was made in this story was that, when we broadened allegations of Donald Trump's special counsel, Michael Cohen who you're referring to, he said that spousal rape was not illegal. In fact, it's been legal -- rather, it's been illegal since 1984 in the state of New York.

KELLY: Correct.  

MAX: And illegal across the entire country.

KELLY: So, he was wrong on the facts, he was wrong on the law, and he was deeply offensive in his tone. So today after his spousal rape justification, he had to come out and try to clarify the matter issuing a sort of apology. You tell me whether you feel apologized to because he took another shot at you today and said, "I want to clarify my statement, as an attorney, husband and father, there are many injustices that offend me but none more than charges of rape or racism. They hit me at my core.
Rarely am I surprised by the press but the gall of this particular reporter to make such a reprehensible and false allegation against Mr. Trump truly stunned me. In my moment of shock and anger, I made an inarticulate comment which I do not believe and which I apologize for entirely." Your reaction to that?

MAX: You'll notice he doesn't actually identify which comment he is actually apologizing for. So, I'm not sure what he's apologizing about.
Is he apologizing about the threats? Is he apologizing about his false interpretation of the law and spousal rape? Or is he apologizing for the abuse that he heaped upon "The Daily Beast" reporters including myself?
I'm not sure what he's apologizing for.

KELLY: He was inarticulate. And you know, another word for it is wrong, but that does not appear in the statement anywhere. Tim, thank you for being here.

MAX: Thank you.

KELLY: Joining us more with more is Howie Kurtz, host of "Media Buzz" here on FNC. So, we'll get to Mr. Cohen and his tactics in a minute, right?
Like all right, Mr. Cohen, guess what, now you're representing the front- runner for the republican nomination, so act like a grown-up, okay? That's one thing. But let's stick with "The Daily Beast" and this report, Howie.
It's relevant because Trump made a reference to rapists crossing the border from Mexico.

HOWIE KURTZ, FOX NEWS HOST, "MEDIA BUZZ": I'm sorry. That is such an incredible stretch. This is an appalling story that never should have been published. To take a 25-year-old single allegation by an ex-wife during a hotly contested divorce and try to make it as if Trump raped his wife, when he said in a statement subsequently that was included in this 1993 book, Megyn that she didn't mean rape in a criminal or even literal sense is the
epitome of a cheap shot.  

KELLY: They don't like him. They wanted to do a hit piece on him, is how it seems. And so they blew up an allegation from 30 years ago. And I'm wondering whether we'll going to see the same thing from "The Daily Beast"
about the rape allegations that were made against Bill Clinton who would be the first gentleman in this country and who would presumably be the husband of the democratic, you know, presumed nominee.

KURTZ: It did read like a hit piece, and I have to say that having covered this at the time in New York, I mean, it was a titanic tabloid war. It was ugly with all kinds of personal accusations.

KELLY: They've voiced it often are.

KURTZ: Exactly. I don't say, by the way that Trump's personal life should be off limits. When I interviewed him last month, I asked him about the three marriages and the affairs and Marla Maples and whether this made him a questionable role model. But the way that they dredge this up, and here we have the alleged victim, right, Ivanna Trump, is portrayed in this piece having suffered this horrible fate at the hands of her husband, she comes out today and says, without merit I support Donald.

KELLY: I know that, Howie, but in "The Daily Beast's" defense, they're basing this off a book that was published a few years after the divorce and the author purports to have received the deposition transcripts. Now, if that's Ivana Trump's sworn testimony, it's fair game. She may have had a change of heart. She actually offered a statement to the book author, and when it came out and she did not deny the story then. All this time later she's denied it. I think "The Daily Beast" is fine on the factual allegations that they're reporting on. I'm not saying they're true, I'm saying they had a legitimate basis to say that it happened as they claimed.
The question is whether the story is relevant.

KURTZ: Exactly. And this is what people hate about the media and why Trump has had such success in beating up on the media because what is the relevance of this old contested allegation now walk back by Ivana Trump to whether Donald Trump should be the republican nominee or president of the United States.

KELLY: And you have to remember what happened in the divorce proceedings.
And lies are told all time. Exaggerations are made, people are angry. The final question, Mr. Cohen, thoughts on him and Mr. Trump's relationship with this man.

KURTZ: Look, this kind of bullying and threatening language used against a reporter, you know, it may work with the entertainment press. It really has no place in a presidential campaign. It sounds like something out of a "Godfather" movie and that in a way made news, a story deeply flawed. But what Cohen said and the way he handled it and he's speaking for Trump, like when Donald Trump beats up on the president, at least he does it with a bit of a smile. This sounded like bullying and there's a reason now that that is resonating beyond the original words published by "The Daily Beast."

KELLY: Absolutely right. Good to see you, Howie.

KURTZ: Nice to see you, counselor.

KELLY: You should see all the people who have come out now and said that this guy is a bully. He's been trying to bully teams all over the press on behalf of Donald Trump. Who knows whether Trump knows it's happening. I'm not suggesting that. But this guy was out of line.

But we also have new fallout tonight on a new undercover video that catches Planned Parenthood execs in what may be the most horrifying display in a series of tapes that has the group on the ropes. In just a moment, Shannon Bream reports on what it shows and republican presidential candidate Dr.
Ben Carson weighs in on what it means.

Plus --


GONZALEZ: Son of a (bleep) has got a gun. Get someone over here now.


GONZALEZ'S WIFE: He just shot my husband!


KELLY: We have got our hands on the 911 call from a frightening road rage incident that involved drawn guns, shots fired, a small child, and now serious legal questions.

Plus, governor and presidential candidate Chris Christie had a fiery run-in this weekend, over gun rights. He is here on that in moments.


CHRIS CHRISTIE, R-N.J., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: So don't talk to me about being anti-gun as governor and raise something to me that was 20 -- listen, that was 20 years ago. And if you want to debate me, come in the top ten, run for president, and come to FOX in Cleveland on August 6 and I'm happy to debate you.


KELLY: Developing tonight a dramatic new hidden camera video catching Planned Parenthood executives in what may be the most horrifying display yet in a series of tapes that has the group on the ropes. This one not only details the harvesting of fetal body parts but it takes you inside the lab in a moment that is deeply disturbing. Planned Parenthood is, again, dismissing this video as it has the other two as just another attack on women's health by, quote, "extremists." In moments we'll be joined by republican presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson who just spoke on this issue.

But we begin tonight with Shannon Bream who reports from Washington -- Shannon.

SHANNON BREAM, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, Megyn, we have to warn our viewers this newest video contains graphic images of aborted fetal body parts. Some of our viewers will likely to find that disturbing. In this clip provided by the Center for Medical Progress, a tissue procurement buyers inside a clinic talking to a doctor about pricing for parts and organs from the fetus that was just over 11 weeks into a pregnancy.


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That 11-6 was pretty good. I mean, there were like three or four samples that could have taken out of the -- and that would be, you know, if we were doing like, you know, 50 percent to 75 percent.
That would be like 200 or 300. We'd be comfortable. Stuff like this, we
don't want to be a flat fee of like $200 --  

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, and I think the per item thing works a little better just because we can see how much we can get out of it.


BREAM: Planned Parenthood has said it receives reimbursement for saying, it's like the cost of transferring fetal tissue, but has never made a profit or done anything illegal. But check out these companies that do provide fetal remains for purchase. It raises questions. The undercover videos we've seen of Planned Parenthood affiliated doctors quoting potential prices put them at $3,100 per specimen but check out the online ordering system for stem express, one of the companies that does reportedly with Planned Parenthood. You'll see pricing for a fetal liver in one case up over $24,000. In a statement stem express said that quote, "Pride itself on complying with all laws." By the way today Senator Rand Paul also a 2016 contender announced the Senate will vote on a measure to defund Planned Parenthood before the August recess -- Megyn.

KELLY: Shannon, thank you.

Just hours after this latest video was released, a pro-life advocates held a rally in Washington. Among the speakers republican presidential candidate Dr. Ben Carson, a retired pediatric neurosurgeon, who is the author of "One Nation." Dr. Carson, thank you for being here with us.


KELLY: As a doctor I don't know if it's as shocking to you to see body parts like that, you know, having worked in medicine for as many years as you did. But, I mean, I apologize to the viewers for the graphic imagery, but that's what's happening. That's what happening. Fetal body parts are being donated, they say, by the mothers, for research and the callousness with which everyone involved in the process discusses it, just, it seems disconnected from what's actually happening.

CARSON: Well, it's the gradualism that is inflicting our society where we're gradually giving away more and more of the morals and values that made us into a great nation for the sake of political correctness. And, you know, I have a hard time believing that a lot of Democrats and progressives can actually just look at this and say, ho-hum, it's just a clump of sales. And, interestingly enough, you know, that's the excuse that they give for, you know, abortion, it's a clump of cells. It's not really a human being. If it's not a human being then, why are you harvesting organs from it?

KELLY: Uh-mm.

CARSON: You know, they don't mean anything either, do they? You know, I don't think they even stop to listen to themselves. But it's just been so gradual that -- I'm glad this happened so that people can be shocked into reality.

KELLY: You know their point. Their point is abortion is legal. Might as well do something to advance medical research with the products of that abortion, i.e., fetal body parts that might help solve another issue or cure another disease.

CARSON: Well, we can solve those problems and we can cure those diseases with other mechanisms that don't desensitize us to the butchering of babies. I mean, that's the bottom-line. And, you know, the same people who do this are the people who are so angry with anybody who disagrees with them. And wants to destroy their name, wants to destroy their livelihood, their family. It's sort of an evil hatred that is permeating us because we're giving away our humanity.

KELLY: Here is the question politically, to shift it to the political arena, the Democrats and Planned Parenthood are already going to say this is part of the Republicans' war on women. They want to shut down funding to Planned Parenthood because they want to take away your right to birth control. They want to shut down the one group that young minority, low- income women use to get their birth control and make no mistake about it they're after it. They're after the pill. They're after preventative services they can get as a young woman, and they're going to use it. And there was a poll out that came out by a democratic group today, though, but still a legitimate poll that suggested the majority of people are against defunding Planned Parenthood.

CARSON: Well, you know, the relationship between that baby and the mother is one of the most sacred relationships on the planet. And that baby is in that mother's womb because she is the one of all people in the world who wants to protect it and we've allowed people to come in and distort that relationship and make that woman feel that that baby is an inconvenience to her. It's her enemy and she should be able to destroy it and anybody who stands in the way is obviously against her and is involved in the war on women. Stop and think about how silly that sound. You know, we've allowed these kinds of distortions to come in and people don't actually use their brains to think about these things. They just say, oh, yeah, yeah, that's what they said. Yes, that's what's right.

KELLY: Uh-mm. The latest FOX News poll shows 44 percent of the country say, they're pro-life. Forty nine percent say, they are pro-choice, but videos like this and stories like this have a potential to change those numbers as we saw after the Kermit Gosnell case received a lot of attention.

CARSON: Well, let's hope so. Because life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, you can't have liberty and the pursuit of happiness if you don't
have life.  

KELLY: Dr. Carson, thank you, sir.

CARSON: Thank you.

KELLY: Also, tonight the coast guard says time is growing short in the search for two young teens lost off the Florida coast after their boat capsized. We'll show you what remarkable steps the families just took to bring in extra help with the effort to find them.

Plus, with nine days to go until the Fox News' very first republican debate in Cleveland, we have the latest numbers on where the field now stands including Governor Chris Christie who joins us right after this break to talk about his campaign and the issue of guns and why someone is trying to make that a story. Watch this.


CHRISTIE: This is the kind of garbage that people put out who have an agenda. Work for the candidate you want to work for. That's fine by me.
But don't come in front of this group of people and lie about my record which is what you did.




KELLY: Nine days to go until the FOX News republican debate in Ohio. And as of today it is still anyone's guess as to who exactly will take the stage in Cleveland next Thursday night. The Real Clear Politics average of all polls which we don't actually use for this event gives us a good snapshot of the field. Again, it's not exactly how we're going to make our decision however. But RCP right now has Trump, Bush, Walker, Rubio and Huckabee in the top group. Carson, Cruz, Christie, Paul and Kasich round out the top ten. But, and this is important, Perry, Santorum, Jindal and Fiorina are still within striking distance. So, the next few days will be critical for the entire field. Case in point New Jersey Governor Chris Christie who was campaigning in Iowa over the weekend when someone in the audience started to attack the governor as anti-gun. We cut a little of what followed.


CHRISTIE: Listen, I understand you've got a point of view. But your point of view is dead wrong. Go and look at the record. You just raised a 50 caliber rifle. As if that was something that I did. I vetoed it. So I don't know where you're getting your information from, but your information is wrong. I vetoed the .50 caliber ban, I also vetoed the law that was passed and sets to my desk to reduced magazine size from 15 to 10. Now, if that's somebody who is anti-gun and anti-gun rights who vetoes that as well. I understand, if you have a point of view, have a point of view but have some facts to back it up. What are your facts to back up that I'm anti-gun?


Oh, no, no. So now -- so now you are interpreting intent. I have to get muscled into it by who? Who's muscled me? So, don't talk to me about being anti-gun as governor and raise something to me that was 20 -- listen, that was 20 years ago. And if you want to debate me, come in the top ten, run for president and come to FOX in Cleveland on August 6, and I'm happy to debate you. But here is what you'll have to do then and what you failed to do this morning. Come up with one fact. No. No, you didn't. One fact and one thing I've done as governor of New Jersey that's done anything, anything, not to support the rights of legal gun owners. This is the kind of garbage that people put out who have an agenda. Work for the candidate you want to work for. That's fine by me. But don't come in front of this group of people and lie about my record, which is what you did.



KELLY: And joining me now that man, republican presidential candidate and the Governor of New Jersey, Chris Christie. Governor, good to see you. So why did that get you so fired up?

CHRISTIE: Thanks, Megyn. Because I don't like people that aren't telling the truth to folks about my record. And I'm happy to defend any part of my record as I have with you, Megyn, on your show any number of times over the years. But I don't want people not telling the truth. And this is a guy with a sketchy past who was bringing up things that are just simply not true.

KELLY: Do you think he worked for one of your opponents?

CHRISTIE: I have no idea, but it doesn't really matter. I mean, when I challenged him, as you saw there, to come up with one fact, he couldn't come up with anything.

KELLY: This is what they said. This is how they go after you, the people who want to attack Chris Christieon guns say, New Jersey is anti-gun. I realize most of these things were put in place before you got there. But the NRA doesn't love you. They gave you a "c" rating in 2013 and then they didn't invite to you their annual conference in Nashville in 2015. So, they think that evidence that you must be anti-gun.

CHRISTIE: No, listen, it's just -- it's simply wrong. And when you look at the record, the record doesn't back that up or indicate it. And so, you know, all these laws that are in effect in New Jersey were put into place before I was governor. I vetoed a number of expansions of those type of measures, and I pardoned the number of people who I thought were caught unfairly in the system in New Jersey that I think is overreaching and hostile towards legal gun owners. And so, those are the facts, Megyn. And all the amount of yelling and screaming about it won't change that.

KELLY: Did you work to loosen any of the gun laws? That seems to be one of their objections.

CHRISTIE: Not with a democratic legislature, Megyn, that was passing me bills to reduce magazine size. We were not going to get the vote. I knew we were not going to get the votes.

KELLY: It's a waste of time. It's a waste of time. It's not going to happen.

CHRISTIE: Yes, it's a waste of time. And what I've done through our administrative code is I have now made it easier in response to some incidents for people to get the permits more quickly than they were before. But only those are the only things I can do administratively. But the main gun laws are statutory and as you know if you don't have the legislature to go along with you, you can't do it.

KELLY: I want to ask you one other question. A lot of attention on Hillary Clinton this week and on the referral of her e-mail scanned into the FBI to look into that. Did you see as much coverage of that as we did about a possible indictment of Chris Christie for the Bridgegate matter which did not come to fruition?

CHRISTIE: I'm waiting for the nightly specials on other news networks. I'm waiting for the breathless front page stories of "The New York Times" that they don't back off from every time Hillary Clinton yells at them. I mean, you know, the fact is that we know it's completely biased, unfair, disparate treatment. And the fact is, you know, this should be looked into against Hillary Clinton and, you know, there should be fair coverage of it. It was completely overblown, biased, unfair coverage of what happened with me and with her, they give her a pass.

KELLY: Governor, it looks like we'll see you in Cleveland. Time will tell.

CHRISTIE: Yes, you will. You will.

KELLY: All right. All the best.

CHRISTIE: You will, Megyn, I'm looking forward to seeing you. I will be there.

KELLY: Okay, good. Don't yell at me. Or do. It might make for good TV.

CHRISTIE: Don't yell at me either, Megyn, you're pretty tough yourself.  

KELLY: See you soon.

Well, speaking of Hillary Clinton, as we mentioned, there are new requests for the FBI now to look into this e-mail scandal and her secret e-mail server. And there are new questions about, what happens if her troubles get worse? Brit Hume is here next on the investigation and the fallout.

Plus, with time running short for the search for two young teenagers lost at sea, we'll show you what remarkable steps their families just took to bring in some extra help.  

And one of the most frightening 911 tapes we've ever heard when a family with children in one car, gets in an armed showdown with a very angry driver in another car.


CANDELARIO GONZALEZ, KILLED IN A ROAD RAGE SHOOTING: They better do something about this man or I'm gonna follow this guy to his house and whoop his (beep).

CATHY GONZALEZ, WIFE OF CANDELARIO: My husband wants to go whoop his (beep).

911 DISPATCHER: OK, well, if he does that, he'll go to jail.



KELLY: Well, new twists in the Hillary Clinton's e-mail scandal today. A speaker of the House John Boehner renews his demand for Mrs. Clinton to turn over her private server to an independent investigator. It comes after new revelations from two federal watchdogs, suggesting that there may have been a breach of national security on the personal e-mail server used by then-secretary of state Hillary Clinton. They have referred the matter to the FBI. Fox News Senior Political Analyst Brit Hume joins me tonight.

So this wound up with a --in you know, being a media (inaudible) because the New York Times had to walk back at the initial reporting on it. But what I just said is true. This matters now that have been referred to the FBI, to see whether she had classified information on there that she never should have had and the calls are growing for her to turn over the server and come clean once and for all with the American people. What do you make of it?

BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, more specifically, Megyn, this referral by the guys who described as watchdogs were inspectors general. And I don't think they quite referred to the FBI just to determine whether she had classified information in her e-mails. They determined that themselves. They looked at only 40 out of thousands of e-mails and found that four of them had classified information.

And we've heard Secretary Clinton say that she never sent or received any classified information. I thought she was going to try to fall back on the idea that, well, she never attached any classified documents to any e-mails, or forwarded or sent any such documents. But she's talking about information, which I think is what the inspectors general meant. They -- the inspectors general meant. They found information she was speaking of in these e-mails that was classified and classified at the time that the material was transmitted.

KELLY: Which she...

HUME: So that was...

KELLY: That she denied. I mean, she -- here just...

HUME: What she does.

KELLY: That she is on camera, I mean, let's just play the sound bite. This is here in the stripes. Listen. Listen.


HILLARY CLINTON, 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I am confident that I never sent nor received any information that was classified at the time it was sent and received.


KELLY: Just note to self, when denying a crime do not wear the black and white striped outfit.


KELLY: Just as a future...


KELLY: Thought. But anyway, she is denying it and the inspector general is saying, "Oh, it's true."

HUME: Well that's right. And I have very little faith that any kind of a serious investigation of this would be undertaken by this Justice Department. However, you hear senator -- Speaker Boehner come out and call for the release of her server. This whole episode means that this thing is not going to go away. And it feeds into something that I think is an increasing burden to her. And that is the sense, and I think it's a valid sense that she's a liar, a habitual, continual liar.


HUME: And the list of her hot ones goes back in a long way from claiming it all back in the Arkansas days that she made a killing in the commodities market as a novice investor by reading The Wall Street Journal. Her claim that she was, remember, under (inaudible) fire in -- where is it? Bosnia when she got off a helicopter. Both those things turns, both of those things were probably false. She made claims about where her daughter was during the 9/11 attacks, which turned out not to be true. She said she didn't send any classified information, the inspector general now says that she did. She said she never got a subpoena, turns out she did. The list is pretty long and I think it has reached a lot of people. She's been around a
long time. I think people have a sense that she tells whoppers.

KELLY: Brit, always good to see you.

HUME: Thanks, Megyn.

KELLY: Also with us tonight, Former Obama White House Deputy Press Secretary Bill Burton.

So you agree with man on stripes, right? As I said it's subliminal, it sinks in. I don't know if I believe...

BILL BURTON, FORMER OBAMA WHITE HOUSE DEPUTY PRESS SECRETARY: I learned long ago never to comment on what women politicians are wearing.

KELLY: Smart move. I can do it. What do you make of it? Because it's not good for her, the inspectors general are saying something different than she is saying, referring to matter the FBI.

BURTON: Well, I mean -- I think that Boehner, I think that all the Republican critics who are trying to make hay of this would be -- would have much firmer ground to stand on. If they said, you know what? We want Hillary Clinton's server, but we also want Condoleezza Rice's server. We also want the private e-mails of Colin Powell. We want everybody's private e-mails and we want to have a full accounting, but that's not what people are saying. Because what people are saying is there -- what people are doing is trying to make a point in a political race. And no -- at no point is Hillary gonna quiet all of the skeptics and all her political opponents. She's just not. And if she were to give up the server, it's just one more way to slice the salami to try to get at something else with Hillary Clinton.

KELLY: What do you make of the polling decrease she's had, though, the favorability polls have gone down from 48 percent to 43 percent. Unfavorable up to 46 percent, to the point now whether Washington Post. Michael Gerson is saying democrats may be coronating a wounded queen.

BURTON: Well, I'll tell you what. When you're in Hillary Clinton's position, where she is the presumptive nominee for the Democratic Party, up against 16, 17 Republicans who are all using Hillary Clinton as a pinata in their public appearances, of course her public approval rating is gonna go down. Republicans are quite focused on coalescing Republican support and conservative independent support against Hillary Clinton. But I think that, you know...

KELLY: Is there any backup, Bill? Do you see a meaningful backup on the Democratic side?

BURTON: A meaningful backup, what do you mean?

KELLY: I mean, did you know if she...


KELLY: If her candidacy implodes?

BURTON: Well, look. I don't think -- I think Hillary Clinton has shown that she's as resilient as anyone who has ever been in public life. So I don't think that there's any real -- there's no real threat of that happening.
But, you know, I'm sure the republicans would love not to run against Hillary Clinton, but I think it looks like even though she's going to get a vigorous fight from Bernie Sanders and form other democrats, she's gonna be the nominee.

KELLY: Bill, great to see you.

BURTON: Good to see you, Megyn.

KELLY: Tonight, we have new developments in the search for those two Florida teenagers lost at sea. And what their parents have done to widen the search and what the coast guard is now saying.

And then, a Florida road rage incident ends in a deadly shooting. Arthur Aidala, Mark Eiglarsh, next to weigh in, on who really is at fault here.



ROBERT DOYLE, MAN WHO KILLED CANDELARIO GONZALEZ: Some maniacs are following me, trying to run me off the road and (beep). My guns already out. It's cocked and loaded. I am five minutes from my house. They are following me there.

911 DISPATCHER: Roosevelt?

DOYLE: I lice at 53 Beverly Hills and they are following me to my house. I will be there in 20 seconds and the guns are already out.


KELLY: Those are some of the last words captured on a 911 call before a deadly shooting outside of a man's Florida house. Both sides of the fatal road rage incident were recorded in real time from inside both vehicles. We're going to hear from the attorneys, Mar-thur (ph) --


KELLY: Arthur Aidala and Mark Eiglarsh, just in a moment.


KELLY: But first, Greg Gallagher is gonna walk us through what happened. And man, it's not good. Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, LOS ANGELES: Not good at all, Megyn, the road rage incident went on for several miles and more than nine minutes. Both vehicles were on with 911 almost the entire time claiming the other driver is the one being crazy and both drivers refused to back down. Listen to more of their conversations.


DOYLE: I'm going home. The guns are coming out. I'm going to put it in his head (beep).

ROBERT DOYLE'S WIFE: Don't take them to our house.

GONZALEZ: He's gonna to flip me off? I'm gonna (beep) (inaudible) this mother (beep). They better do something about this man or I'm gonna follow this guy to his house and whoop his (beep).

C. GONZALEZ: My husband wants to go whoop his (beep).

911 DISPATCHER: OK, well, if he does that, he'll go to jail.


GALLAGHER: The driver with the gun is 51-year-old Robert Doyle. As Doyle pulls into his neighborhood, he's still being followed by 44-year-old Candelario Gonzalez and neither man is willing to give an inch. Play it again.


C. GONZALEZ: Oh, now he turned up DeSoto, we're not going to follow him through.

GONZALEZ: Oh, we're going to follow him right to his house.

911 DISPATCHER: Oh, no, no. He's not going to follow him to his house. You guys need to go home. Where is that vehicle -- where's the truck at now?

DOYLE: He's (beep) right on my (beep).

911 DISPATCHER: All right, hold on for me, OK?

DOYLE: It's going down right now.


GALLAGHER: And it went down, moments after the cars stop and the drivers get out, the threatened violence becomes very real. Listen.


KID: He's got a gun!

C. GONZALEZ: Son of a (beep) has got a gun. Get somebody here now!

911 DISPATCHER: Ma'am, I need...


911 DISPATCHER: Ma'am, I need you to get out of there.

C. GONZALEZ: He shot my husband.

911 DISPATCHER: How many times was he shot?

DOYLE'S WIFE: I don't know how many times he was hit, but he fired multiple times. The guy just kept charging at him.


GALLAGHER: Robert Doyle is charged with second-degree murder because police believe he was the aggressor. Megyn?

KELLY: Oh, Trace, thank you.

Joining me now, Arthur Aidala who is a New York trial attorney and a Fox News analyst, and Mark Eiglarsh, he's a criminal defense attorney and a former prosecutor. All right, mar-thur (ph)...


KELLY: Let's figure out what happened here. So Doyle is the guy who was charged. Gonzalez is the guy who wound up dead.


KELLY: On the tape you hear Gonzalez say, I'm going to whoop his, A and he's following Doyle. He followed Doyle to his home. Doyle's the one who says I've got the guns out and Doyle is the one who fired the guns at Gonzalez who was following him home because somebody was expressing the road rage. Well, I don't know who did it first. but the point is, I'll ask you, Arthur, why have they now charged Doyle with second-degree murder, when this other man was following him home to the house and saying he was going to get out and whoop his you know what?

ARTHUR AIDALA, NEW YORK TRIAL ATTORNEY: Because that-- see it doesn't rise to the level to invoke to stand your ground rule, to stand your ground law. You need to be threatened with death or serious physical injury. Serious physical injury means broken bones, blood. It doesn't mean...


AIDALA: Some guy punching you. No, Mark, I just read the statute. Megyn, I just read the statute. And it has to do with how -- what the perception is by Mr. Doyle. And if Mr. Doyle has to see someone coming at him with a gun, a knife, a bat, or if he's Evander Holyfield or Mike Tyson, someone who could kill with you one punch. But man on man, mano a mano, you can't execute someone...

KELLY: And that's clearly how the cops felt, too.


KELLY: Because they charged the guy. Go ahead, Mark.

EIGLARSH: All right. I disagree. Nowhere in the statute, I've been practicing here as a prosecutors defense lawyer for over two decades, does it say a gun is needed, a bat is needed, a knife is needed, what is needed is reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm. So let's back up. In traffic, you hear Doyle, the shooter, saying this guy is trying to run me off the road.

So Doyle already is in fear for his life. Then the victim follows him to his house in spite of 911 saying, "Back off, go home." He doesn't go home. He gets out of his vehicle. If he just wants the shooter's address, he could have stayed in his vehicle. He gets out and he glunches (ph), he goes towards the shooter and the shooter has an argument that he reasonably feared death or great bodily harm...

KELLY: But there were apparently was conflicting...

EIGLARSH: Self-defense.

PERINO: Eyewitness testimony on that...

EIGLARSH: Correct.

KELLY: Arthur, about what Gonzalez did when he got out of the car.

EIGLARSH: Correct.

AIDALA: There's a witness apparently, Mark that says, once the gun is displayed by Doyle that Gonzalez stops and retreats. And then Mark, look at Doyle's actions afterwards. He then goes to the car with his gun out. He pulls out the wife...

EIGLARSH: Objection.

AIDALA: The daughter...

EIGLARSH: Objection.

AIDALA: And the grandchild. And pulls -- a non-objection at this point Mark...

EIGLARSH: Then you ask.

AIDALA: When you're figuring out whether we're charging him with a crime or we're not charging him with a crime. That is all relevant.

EIGLARSH: But how does that affect...


KELLY: Go ahead, Mark.

EIGLARSH: Let me just say this, those are horrible facts. And quite frankly, I would move to exclude that because the issue is at the time of the shooting, how he felt. Did he fear reasonably, that this guy was going to commit harm? And obviously, the distance from the shooter to where his body laid at the final resting place, will dictate volumes as to how close he was and whether he was coming toward him or not.

KELLY: And they're having -- I mean, they're having this -- both men behaved like idiots...

AIDALA: Thank you...

KELLY: First of all.

EIGLARSH: I'm not.

AIDALA: I was afraid to say that...


AIDALA: But you're so correct.

KELLY: Right.

AIDALA: He's grandfather with his grandchild in the car following him. That's ridiculous. And here's Doyle, instead of going home...

KELLY: You don't follow the guy to his house...

AIDALA: Track in the police station.

KELLY: I mean the man is dead...

AIDALA: Police station.

KELLY: But you don't follow a guy to his house, I mean in the road rage incident. And you don't whip out your gun and just start shooting when said man gets out of his car...

EIGLARSH: Correct.

KELLY: You wait to see what's happening.

EIGLARSH: Not to tell agree, yes.

KELLY: You get you're on the phone with police. Certainly, if he's charging you, it's a different story. So we'll see how it plays on court, but Mar-thur (ph), it's great to see you both.


AIDALA: Thanks, (inaudible)...

KELLY: You got to have a laugh, don't you?
Anyway, the next story is -- oh God, it's heart wrenching and everybody has been following it, wondering what has happened to those two young boys missing at sea. The efforts now have been expanded to cover a massive stretch of ocean. And we'll show you what's happening there, next.


KELLY: At this hour, the coast guards increasing its efforts in the search for the two missing teens lost at sea off the coast of Florida. The 14-year-old boys were last seen purchasing fuel for their boat on Friday. And according to the coast guard, they are believed to have been headed for the Bahamas, although, their mothers don't believe that. In a 19-foot single engine fishing boat, seen here, the boat was found two days later more than 180 miles north of where the teens first set sail. No sign of the young men. Alex Diprato from our Fox affiliate, WSVN is outside the boy's neighborhood Tequesta, Florida. Alex?

ALEX DIPRATO, TEQUESTA, FLORIDA: Well, Megyn. Here in Tequesta neighborhood, the families are hoping upon hope, the boys live right across the street from each other. On the Georgia, Florida border today, out of the Atlantic, there was a glimmer of home as a cooler was found. The coast guard went to check it out. But it turned out to be Styrofoam, not the hard cooler that was on the boat and is missing. The families of Austin Stephanos and Perry Cohen are hoping these boys could be clinging on to it. Their 19-foot single engine fishing boat was found capsized on Sunday. The search so far has again centered off the Florida, Georgia line.

The coast guard is using 13 assets, planes, helicopters, and boats to search an area the size of West Virginia. Today, Perry Cohen's father told us, his stepson wasn't allowed to go beyond the rocks at the Jupiter inlet where the two boys left from -- on Friday. They went passed that into the ocean. The coast guard has said they believe the two boys were going on a fishing trip to the Bahamas. However, the families have said they believe the two teens, both 14-years-old, were just going to fish off the coast of Florida. They are waiting for any word on these two boys in this search that has been going on since Friday. Joe Namath lives in the neighborhood, the NFL hall of famer. And he has encouraged people to participate in this search.

KELLY: Alex, thank you very much. Time is running out. The experts say if the boys are in the water, time is running out. But may -- there may still be a window. We'll be right back.


KELLY: Tune in tomorrow night and set to DVR, Dana Perino and Dana Lash are here. We always do the Dana's on the Wednesdays and it's always worth your while. Go to Also on Twitter, @megynkelly. Let me know what you think of tonight show. Thanks for watching, everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly and this is 'The Kelly File.'

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