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The Five

Is Donald Trump improving as a political candidate?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 23, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Dana Perino and Jesse Watters. Its 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

At his campaign kickoff, Donald Trump fired up the 2016 race with his comments about illegal immigration. Today, the republican frontrunner went to the front lines of the debate, our border with Mexico and fielded questions from reporters.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think I'll win the Hispanic vote. I'm way, way ahead with the Hispanics, well into the 30s which -- and I think second is like 11. So I have a great relationship. Over the years, thousands and thousands of Hispanics have worked for me. The border patrol invited me. And then they canceled because frankly they don't want to get involved. They invited me then at the last moment, I mean we were virtually in the air and they said we can't get involved. And I heard they got those orders from Washington. I see the unions are very much involved with the border patrols, but you have to let them do their job. They want to do their job. That's why they invited me. They invited me.

(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE): Are you in favor of a wall?

TRUMP: Oh, yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: In certain sections you have to have a wall, absolutely.

(CROSSTALK)

TRUMP: By the way, the wall, the wall will save you a tremendous amount of money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: And it didn't stop there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(UNIDENTIFIED MALE): Feel that what you've said, when you said that the people who cross the border are rapists and murders.

TRUMP: No, no, no. We're talking about illegal immigration. That's a typical case of the press with misinterpretation.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: Deal with Telemundo and Telemundo should be ashamed. And I'll tell you something what is really gonna be fun, I'm right now suing Univision for $500 million.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: We're going to win a lot of money to do the work, I do. No, no. you're finished. You've obviously been.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JESSE WATTERS, GUEST CO-HOST: It is.

BOLLING: We are.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: But -- that was a hostile crowd in two different places. I don't know.

WATTERS: I think.

BOLLING: To me, I like the way he handled it.

WATTERS: I think he handled it brilliantly, and I just like the way he moves his hands and just dismisses people like that. And you could see it all coming.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: I know. I love it. The guy owns the crowd. He's moguling everybody. It's ridiculous. It's a spectacle and you know it's interesting to watch. My thing is you know, I'm afraid to criticize Trump now because I think he's gonna hand out my cell phone. I don't want to do that. I'm a little nervous about that. But you know, people say is Trump, you know are hurting the Republican Party with Hispanics. Maybe he is. But you know what? They have not really done that well with Hispanics. And how low can you go? I think Romney lost 71-27 last time. I think he may be alienating with Hispanics, but what he's doing now he's helping the Republican Party with blue-collar working class Americans. Americans that want a border wall, that don't want illegal aliens running around these sanctuary cities and killing people. So I don't think the issue is whether the republicans are losing Hispanics. I think the Democrat Party is losing blue-collar, working class men.

BOLLING: OK, Dana. When he left of -- got off the airplane, he waved, he went and visited the border, came to the microphone and I was shocked that he just said, let's go, questions. And he was -- there were some hostile people in that audience.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: He always gonna have that, right.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: So here's the thing. I think that in six weeks, he's improved as a candidate. And it's hard to compliment him because nobody compliments himself more than himself. I mean, but he actually that -- he's having fun on the trail. Do you remember Newt Gingrich? He used to go after the press and he, like -- the republican voters loved that. He'd go after the media, it's like yeah, you stick it to them. They love that. I have a quibble with the hat.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: I think it looked really bad.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: You think it bad.

PERINO: Yeah, yeah, like the hat. It wasn't great, although, he's like in character. This is actually, though, the annual pilgrimage by some politician or other, to the border. Last July, we had a big problem on the border with all the children -- remember all the children coming across and President Obama went to Texas for a fund-raiser, did not schedule a stop at the border so Rick Perry invited him. Rick Perry goes to the border. So here's the thing I think that he's tapping into. And he talks a little bit more about specifically, about the wall today, which was one of my complaints in the beginning, it was so generalized. Like, I'm gonna build a wall. Today, it was like the wall makes sense in certain places. That's true. So the -- I think he's actually improved as a candidate. He's having more fun. He's getting a little bit more specific. And he's willing to take questions, whereas a lot of people on the democratic side -- why I should just say the one, Hillary Clinton. We're gonna talk about the.

GUILFOYLE: Be the one.

PERINO: Doesn't take questions at all.

BOLLING: Juan. The border agents, the union had invited him and then they backed out at the last minute. Do you think there was -- where do you think that came from? The back -- on the pulling out of the unit?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, it came from the idea that they were endorsing Donald Trump. And they said they won't -- they were very clear that they are not endorsing anybody. So the union's interest was they want to get more border agents hired, they want more staff, they want more budget.

PERINO: They need more help.

WILLIAMS: I don't agree, but that's what they want, right? That's what they want for their self-interests. But their self-interests, then, crossed a line when it appeared that they were endorsing Donald Trump.

BOLLING: They didn't think about that when they invited him?

WILLIAMS: Apparently not. Then that was.

BOLLING: Are you sure? Or do you say it's possible? One of the other candidates said or someone else got to them and said, listen, we don't want.

PERINO: Possibly, this federal government.

WATTERS: What Trump.

BOLLING: Yeah, Good point.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I mean the federal government who pays the salaries.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

PERINO: Is probably saying, let's not get involved in the political circus that is down there.

WILLIAMS: Well, you can't tell the union what to do. But I think that it became apparent that at this point, you know, it's a little bit like they're crossing a line. And that they're putting themselves in a negative light.

PERINO: Correct.

WILLIAMS: With their bosses.

BOLLING: How do you do?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I think he did well. I mean, it's like everybody at this table was all smiles. That was pretty amazing, right? Except for the hat, Dana says it was the hat. Well, look, he's not afraid to take questions. So he's changing a little bit of the way that politics is done and proceeds in this country because he is being a little bit more straightforward. He's kind of unplugged. Now, whether or not that's going to prove to be successful, let's see. But he isn't shying away from the issues and he's continuing to ask the questions. I mean, where is Hillary Clinton?

BOLLING: And that's what I wanted to ask you right there. Juxtapose Donald Trump's comfortable nature at the podium with a very hostile press versus a Hillary who -- I don't know, her delivery when she's talking to people is just so off putting. She's -- it's almost like nails on a chalkboard at times.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, she's got like a taser belt. Like, she's shooting barbs at people.

PERINO: Wait, don't take my B block.

BOLLING: OK.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, OK.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: But wait a second, wait a second. Wait a second, wait a second. This guy says, you're finished, and you like that.

BOLLING: No, I like the whole.

WILLIAMS: That's the way to deal with the press. That's the way to answer questions.

GUILFOYLE: Well, he already answered the questions.

BOLLING: He introduced the mayor of Laredo, who talked for a couple of minutes. He took the microphone back and he fielded questions. There were hecklers. He handled hecklers, guys, better than anyone I've ever seen handled hecklers.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: He did it.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

WATTERS: I mean, would you rather have -- no, I mean.

BOLLING: He didn't know it.

WATTERS: He didn't size up reporters, Juan.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

WATTERS: I mean.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Yeah. He at least to me -- answers the questions.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: He didn't answer any questions.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, he did. The guy.

WILLIAMS: You know what?

GUILFOYLE: The guy asked him a question and then he tried to comment again with more heckling. And he said no, no, you're finished.

WILLIAMS: No, no. He didn't the question.

GUILFOYLE: You've had your time.

WILLIAMS: But let me just say this.

GUILFOYLE: I don't think so. All right, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say this to you.

GUILFOYLE: Let's just rewrite it. Let's just rewrite it.

WILLIAMS: No, no. He didn't answer the question, all the stuff about the wall -- what nonsense? I mean, it's just crazy. We have five times more border agents than we did. I guess about 10 years ago, we have tens tons of money. You know that they're not OK.

GUILFOYLE: What is it?

WATTERS: OK, so the.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: The wall is not an issue.

WATTERS: Juan.

WILLIAMS: But it is an issue for the republican base that you were talking about, Jesse. When -- by the way, you invented a word today. I love it.

WATTERS: What?

WILLIAMS: Moguling.

WATTERS: Moguling, yeah.

WILLIAMS: You said he was -- you guys also say, oh, he did so great at the podium there, and with the press. Jesse, you got it right. He was moguling. He was just like, you know, I got no time for you, press. You press is.

BOLLING: No, he said that one.

WILLIAMS: Your eyes.

BOLLING: No, no, no.

WILLIAMS: He has too. (ph)

BOLLING: He said that.

WILLIAMS: And you're Spanish.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: One question. He took the heckler and said, look, I don't know about that. I'll look into it and moved on. Anyway, let's do this. Trump, at the top of the polls, but he says the RNC has yet to support him in a new interview. He raised the possibility of leaving the GOP to launch a third party bid if the committee is unfair to him in the primary season. He was asked about it today at the border.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE): Anything in the past couple of days that (inaudible) third party run at the GOP has not (inaudible)?

TRUMP: I'm a republican. I'm a conservative. I'm running. I'm in first place by a lot. It seems, according to polls. I want to run as a republican. I think I'll get the nomination. We'll see soon enough, but I think I'll get the nomination. The best way to win is for me to get the nomination and run probably against Hillary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: We'll get to that discussion in just a minute. But among his GOP competitors, there's mixed reaction on the Donald.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TED CRUZ, 2016 GOP PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's bold and brash, and he's willing to speak the truth. And he's taking on the Washington cartel. I've been proud to defend him for focusing on illegal immigration.

RICK PERRY, 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He offers a barking carnival act that can best be described as Trumpism (ph), a toxic mix of demagoguery and mean-spiritedness and nonsense. Donald Trump's candidacy is a cancer on conservatism, and it must be clearly diagnosed, excised and discarded.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: All right, K.G., there was a poll --

GUILFOYLE: He sounds like a cancer surgeon.

BOLLING: Let's go with the third party idea, right? So the ABC did a poll, ABC-Washington Post, I believe. If there were a third party, Donald Trump, he would only get about 20 percent of the vote. Jeb would get 30. Hillary would be a clear landslide winner at 46, your thoughts on if he --

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, like a (inaudible) situation.

BOLLING: What if he would do that? I mean.

GUILFOYLE: Listen, he's floating the idea saying listen, if you don't show me proper respect to the RNC, which I haven't thought, you know been supportive or been behind him, then I'm gonna this on my own. You got one way to make this work, which is invite me in the tent, treat me well in the primary season or I'm gonna go out on my own. Do we know if he'll do that? No. We call the psychic friends network to find out. He's reiterating that he's a republican, that he's a conservative and that he feels the best -- he is the best one to beat Hillary Clinton in the general election. That's been his message.

BOLLING: He spoke to Dana Loesch, earlier today. He also at the border said, he was -- he's a frontrunner, why we even talking about third party. He makes a lot of sense. I have to think that he starts floating this idea, Juan, of third party. He'll lose a lot of support amongst the.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

BOLLING: Even the base.

PERINO: Yup.

BOLLING: Won't put up with that.

WILLIAMS: You think so?

BOLLING: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: No, no, 20 percent. I think 20 percent would just be about a historic high. That's what, you know, we saw last time, independent ran took votes away from George H.W. Bush.

BOLLING: Yeah, it just proves to be a clear win for Hillary, though.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think it would be. But I mean, I don't think that he can beat Hillary if he stays in. And he right now, you know, we -- I was last week thinking, oh, after the whole attack on McCain, we're going to see his numbers drop precipitously. Well, there was a poll done today, Rasmussen has him more -- he's more favorably viewed than McCain. So I don't expect now that his poll numbers are going to drop. But I thought what you saw there from Rick Perry was interesting, the politics of it. Because I think Rick Perry, you know Cruz, clearly thinks he can inherit Trump's base, if Trump goes away. That's what's going on there. He's positioning himself. Perry is positioning himself to take advantage of all the media attention to Donald Trump and get into the debate.

BOLLING: It's kind of what Donald Trump did when he got in started taking shots at the frontrunner, Jeb, and caught -- garnered a lot of attention. Can I stay on third party for a second?

PERINO: Sure.

BOLLING: Big mistake, third rail for him, right?

PERINO: I think that, you know, it's only been five weeks. And if you're trying to win the hearts and minds of republican voters across America, record numbers said they would never vote for him. Just six weeks ago, I don't know the polls by our (ph), even three weeks from now, but it's not the way to ensure that you are uniting a divided party. That is not going to help because right now, people are looking at 17 possible choices. And if they think that you're going to cut and run as soon as you, maybe, think about flirting with supporting him, they're not going to stick around. The other thing in terms of -- if people like the style, it's not my style, but if they like it, they like the fight. I think what Rick Perry showed is that he's willing to do the same. And so his speech, it was a solid speech. And I actually think that in some ways, I think Donald Trump even respected Rick Perry's willingness to pushback.

BOLLING: Your thoughts, Jesse?

WATTERS: Well, I mean, Trump is pugilist, and you're playing with fire there. He's gonna treat.

PERINO: That's his words today.

WATTERS: Rosy O'Donnell, you know, remember what he used to do to Rosy's to tear her limb from limb in broad daylight? And that's what he's done to some of these candidates. He made fun of Perry's glasses.

BOLLING: Jesse.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: He did this to Anderson Cooper last night. I mean.

WATTERS He did.

BOLLING: And Anderson Cooper has been around a long time. He's got a lot of interviews.

PERINO: I didn't think Anderson deserve that.

BOLLING: Well.

WATTERS: No?

BOLLING: Well.

PERINO: No.

WATTERS: Oh, you're sticking up for Cooper?

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: Yes.

WATTERS: Really? What was it?

PERINO: Yes.

WATTERS: I think he came at him with the false premise and he corrected him. That's all.

BOLLING: All right.

WATTERS: And what you said, they like that.

PERINO: It's one thing to correct him. That's another thing to say and you're ugly too.

WATTERS: When Newt did it to Wolf, everybody loves it. So I don't think.

PERINO: I didn't.

WATTERS: There's a lot of harm.

WILLIAMS: By the way, Jesse.

PERINO: I'm convinced.

WILLIAMS: Before we go, let me just mention.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: I was shocked to see Dan Rather said, "Oh, the media needs to give more coverage to Donald Trump."

PERINO: Of course he would say that.

WILLIAMS: That's what I thought.

PERINO: Give me a break.

WILLIAMS: Oh, that's good.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: He would like nothing more.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, devious democrats at work, America.

BOLLING: Hillary's at work.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: Hillary's underwater and three swing states deeply underwater and no one even knows about it.

GUILFOYLE: Well, somebody put out an APB for her because where is she.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: They're going to because we're going to B block.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: Don't worry.

BOLLING: Hillary Clinton avoids the press at all costs and a top editor at the New York Times thinks that's a good thing -- coming up next on The Five.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Many in the press have voiced frustration about the lack of access to Hillary Clinton who physically roped off reporters earlier this month, incredibly. But the editorial page, editor of the New York Times, thinks her stone walling as the -- of the media, that it's really a smart strategy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDREW ROSENTHAL, NEW YORK TIMES EDITORIAL PAGE EDITOR: This is going to sound rather strange coming from a journalist but she's also ignoring the press, which I don't think is such a terrible idea. I don't think her not talking to the press is an issue. And you can always tell when a candidate is doing a good job of dealing -- of setting her own agenda because there's stories by the press writing about other people in the press, complaining about other people in the press that don't get close enough to the candidate. Truly, sincerely, who cares?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: So the New York Times thinking Hillary Clinton is doing a great job not talking to the press. Now is that surprising?

WATTERS: Well, I mean, maybe the New York Times guy likes being tied up by Hillary. Maybe he's kinky like that. I have no idea.

GUILFOYLE: Jesse Watters.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: I don't know what he's into. It seems like.

GUILFOYLE: Jesse.

WATTERS: He's into that kind of thing. I mean, he should want answers, right? But I mean it seems like the New York Times cares more about Rubio's boat, than Hillary bringing like boat loads of money and laundering it through her own foundation.

PERINO: Oh, they did, but -- OK, so that's the editorial page editor. It would -- they did break a couple of those stories.

WATTERS: They didn't break it. They were shopped to it by Schweitzer, who gave it to them with a little bowtie around it. But I mean, you can't say on the one hand, on the one page of the New York Times, well, the Obama administrations super secretive, least transparent, they don't respect the press, and then the next day say, it's OK if Hillary doesn't talk to us, can't have it both ways.

PERINO: I don't totally disagree with him that it's not working for her because she stays high in the polls. She doesn't really have that much competition. I mean, Bernie Sanders is not realistic.

GUILFOYLE: You know why?

PERINO: What?

GUILFOYLE: He's not a good candidate.

WATTERS: Right.

GUILFOYLE: So we're gonna have people vote for someone who sucks as a candidate, and we expect her going to be good as a president of the United States because they cannot answer questions, they are not transparent. They don't invite any kind of open discussion or dialogue with the press or anybody else. That's an elitist strategy. That's not what we're representing here in the United States of America. So that's what people have to ask yourself, is this who you want, a president that's going to be in hiding?

PERINO: Do you know what is better?

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Is you are channeling -- one of our favorites, Charles Krauthammer, who had this to say last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: She still doesn't have real opponents who are going to challenge her for the nomination in the end, but we've gotten to see her. And it turns out that the more you see her, the more her numbers go down. That's a definition of a weak candidate.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: And Eric, he was talking specifically about the poll that you brought up, Quinnipiac looking at three swing states, Colorado, Iowa and Virginia, saying that actually her numbers are going down in all of those states.

BOLLING: In a massive way, where she used to be above water, she is now in some -- I believe in some of the states, she's 20 points underwater favorability. It's incredible. And so, I think the New York Times person was right as far as strategy goes. But not right as far as a reporter goes.

WATTERS: Right.

BOLLING: That's their job is to get the information out. Let's hear what the candidates have to say. The problem with Hillary is every time she does talk her poll numbers go down. She's not becoming -- when you watch Donald Trump, you say he's becoming a better candidate over time? Hillary is going in the opposite direction. You can hear -- there's almost a disdain in her voice. Like she's being annoyed that she has to talk right now. And it's a very -- almost aggravated delivery. It sounds like she just doesn't either -- doesn't want to be there, doesn't feel she has to be there. She wants to, let's hurry up and get this over and get right to the general election because after all, as you point out, she's still massively popular among democrats.

PERINO: And Juan, the Democratic Party might just have to go to the election with a democratic candidate that they have. I mean, she might not change in that regard.

WILLIAMS: She's very popular among democrats. I don't think anybody.

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: At the table is going to say, oh no, I see somebody else now challenger, Bernie Sanders nowhere near. We all talked about our Bernie spiked up. I think it's a 15 percent. Hillary is almost 60 percent. So there's a big difference here. The second thing is.

GUILFOYLE: Is that who they think can win? I mean.

WILLIAMS: Of course.

GUILFOYLE: They like.

WILLIAMS: That's the point.

GUILFOYLE: I don't feel like they're in love with her. But they're like, well, we'd like to see another democrat.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: In the White House.

WILLIAMS: Exactly. And she can win.

GUILFOYLE: Does not.

WILLIAMS: And because this -- at least to my next point, which is they -- you know we talk about these three states and a Quinnipiac poll, which is not by the way consistent with most polls. But there still is not one republican who beats Hillary head-to-head nation-wide.

GUILFOYLE: Yet.

WILLIAMS: Not one.

PERINO: Yet, but they're split.

GUILFOYLE: Yet.

PERINO: But they're split among 17. Can I ask you something Jesse? I heard today, from a democrat, that Hillary Clinton's camp is actually has somebody they're worried about on the republican side.

WATTERS: So.

PERINO: And he entered the race on Tuesday and Governor John Kasich of Ohio.

WATTERS: I don't believe anything coming out of the Clinton camp. Who they're worried about? It's misinformation. I mean, we overheard what was his name the other day like a Walmart talking about who they were worried about Rubio? I don't trust it. I do think that Hillary has the personality problem.

PERINO: It's all planted.

WATTERS: Well, yeah. But I think Hillary has a personality problem like Eric said. If people vote for the person they want to have a beer with. No one wants to have a beer with Hillary, only if Bill is invited, maybe. And like last week, she unveiled her platform. It's basically open borders, I'm gonna raise taxes and I support the Iranian nuclear deal.

PERINO: But there is something else that she's.

WATTERS: I mean they are all losers.

PERINO: There's something else that she's for in. She talked about it today in South Carolina, when she was trying to explain why she should be president of the United States. Here's one of the things she said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Clearly, I'm not asking people to vote for me, simply because I'm a woman. I'm asking people to vote for me on the merits. And I think one of the merits is I am a woman.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: So you see how that works, Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: Well, I'm glad we were reminded that she's a woman. Glad that's out in the open now. What else is her point? I would never lead with that. I mean, you should just vote for me because I'm a woman and we need a female president. I mean, that seems to be like her best talking point when she emerges from hiding.

PERINO: It might work.

WATTERS: Well, I mean, be smooth about it. Obama didn't say vote for me because I'm black. I mean, he was a little more nuanced about it. She can't even.

BOLLING: What about being black is one of the merits of a president?

WATTERS: Sure. And he was born black and Hillary was born a woman, but I mean -- like she has the gender card. She can't even play it well, right?

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: I mean how awkward is that?

PERINO: Juan thinks that most people -- most women in America, including republican women -- do you still believed this?

WILLIAMS: Yes, I do.

WATTERS: What?

PERINO: I've tried to.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Juan and I have had this ongoing argument about.

WILLIAMS: I'm gonna tell you.

PERINO: And he thinks that the republican women are going to go.

WILLIAMS: Oh my, God.

PERINO: And vote for Hillary because she's a woman over the republican candidate.

GUILFOYLE: You're out of your mind again, out of his mind.

WILLIAMS: I will give this much, Dana. I'm not sure that I'm right about older republican women.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. I got that fact.

WILLIAMS: But I think that among younger republican women, no doubt. And this, you know, comes from conversations with because I'm in Washington a lot. Women who work in the congress, and they're just like wow, a woman president. So you ask -- you say oh, why is she mentioning that she's a woman, Kimberly? I think she'd be stupid. I think she was stupid last time. It's like a black person who says.

GUILFOYLE: no, I didn't say she should.

WILLIAMS: Oh, I don't. I want to pretend that race is not an issue in America. You know I just want you to look at my character and wait a second.

GUILFOYLE: Like Juan. Well, on Juan.

WILLIAMS: Race is a nation.

GUILFOYLE: I did not say that she shouldn't remind us that she's female. What I'm saying is it shouldn't be the lead. That shouldn't be her main qualification to say, you know, check the box for gender.

WILLIAMS: I don't think it has to be her main qualification because.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: That quote of hers goes back to what the original point of this, which is the more she talks, the more that we'll wait. She's not like the best candidate. She's not playing those cards right. She's got great cards to play and she doesn't play them well.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

BOLLING: If it's not that, then what would be her best qualification for being president?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: What?

WILLIAMS: You want me to show you the polls?

BOLLING: No, no.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: No, you didn't tell us.

WILLIAMS: I mean the polls.

WATTERS: The qualifications.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Americans trust her in terms of winning and beating a republican.

PERINO: Wait. That's not what any of those polls show.

WILLIAMS: They don't trust her.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: OK. We are going to call a doctor and we will have Juan checked out.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: In the next, after the break.

GUILFOYLE: You mean committed?

PERINO: I don't know what is going on.

WILLIAMS: Committed.

GUILFOYLE: Committed.

PERINO: All right, Nancy Pelosi.

WILLIAMS: Thank you, doctor.

PERINO: Made her first public remarks on Planned Parenthood, since video surfaced of employees, talking about selling body parts of unborn babies. The top democrat in the House is outraged, but not about the allegations, her twist on that scandal, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: After she the video surfaced of Planned Parenthood officials talking about selling the body parts of unborn babies, republican law makers are fighting to block taxpayer dollars from going to the group.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DIANE BLACK, REPRESENTATIVE-TENNESSEE: Planned Parenthood has blood on its hands. The one-sided relationship between Planned Parenthood's ever-growing bank account, and American taxpayers, must be severed.

TED CRUZ, UNITED STATES SENATOR: Every American should watch these videos and just ask the question, are these, my values? Now, what should we be doing? We need to prosecute Planned Parenthood, and also, we need to cut off every penny of taxpayer funding.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: But the top Democrat in the House has no interest in digging deeper into the revelations. Nancy Pelosi wants the people who exposed Planned Parenthood investigated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), CALIFORNIA: Everybody's calling for an investigation of Planned Parenthood. Let's have an investigation of those people who were trying to ensnare Planned Parenthood in a controversy that doesn't exist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: It's just -- it's unbelievable. If Eric Holder were still there they'd already have this investigation launched.

Dana, your thoughts.

PERINO: Well, I thought that was a classic move by Nancy Pelosi.

I have a question, Kimberly. Like, what could they be investigated for? Did they break a law?

GUILFOYLE: Well, potentially, yes. That's why you have to do the investigation, to see, in fact, what laws they might have violated. When you see something like that --

WILLIAMS: No, no, she's asking you about --

PERINO: I mean, like the video makers. Like what she suggested --

GUILFOYLE: No, no, not the video makers. But I'm saying Planned Parenthood. Forget Nancy Pelosi.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: What laws did they break?

BOLLING: DOJ did announce an investigation into the video maker.

GUILFOYLE: I understand that. But the problem is, I don't see that there's any law that they broke. The investigation should be on the flip side to what Planned Parenthood has done.

WILLIAMS: Let me offer you a suggestion from the psycho ward as she was putting me in the last thing, that, in fact, they have nonprofit status with the IRS. Guess why? Because they said that they were created to do investigations into buying medical research on fetal tissue and the like, didn't they?

GUILFOYLE: OK, what is your point?

WILLIAMS: Well, so that's not what they're doing. The only thing we've seen so far is that they go out and do videos intended to besmirch the reputation.

GUILFOYLE: No, no, no --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: To look into what's happening, potential investigation into this. That's what their in fact doing. You just see it one way. You say they're doing this to besmirch the reputation of Planned Parenthood.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Planned Parenthood who has its employees on video caught selling tissue and body parts of babies.

WILLIAMS: That's not --

GUILFOYLE: You're not interested in even investigating that?

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Can you stomach that, Juan? Can you stomach that? You're totally fine with it? You're more worried about hurting feelings of people of Planned Parenthood or Democrats, because we're talking about his issue, versus the actual atrocities that are going on. I don't get it.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say I think anytime anybody has an abortion, it's a sad, terrible situation, OK?

But what we're talking about here is fetal tissue being used for medical research that actually helps to cure disease, to help us better understand illnesses in this world. That helps you and me, Kimberly.

PERINO: Can I recommend something? Amy Otto at "The Federalist", she's one of the writers. She has a really good, important piece reminding all of us that one of the things that scientists have been able to do is create cells that allow you to do the same type of research that you could do with illegal baby parts. You can actually create that in a lab without having to destroy life.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

WILLIAMS: This is the same conversation we had am stem cell research a long time ago.

PERINO: Science has advanced beyond that. So should our morals.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. But, Juan, you're trying to make it innocent to say advancing medicine. And what I'm saying to you is there is a direct incentive, a financial incentive built in then for Planned Parenthood if they're getting money for these parts, the more abortions and pregnancies that are terminated, the more body parts, the more they're able to sell.

Do you understand that that is a flawed model?

WILLIAMS: No, that would be reprehensible.

GUILFOYLE: It's not necessary to do this because the science exists to be able to do it in a way that is humane that doesn't involve butchering babies.

WILLIAMS: My gosh! Let's stop with this butchering.

GUILFOYLE: Let's stop the nonsense, Juan.

WILLIAMS: Dana's point about she thinks there are ways to do this research. But my point to you, Kimberly, is --

GUILFOYLE: She doesn't think. She knows.

WILLIAMS: My point to you, Kimberly, is that the National Institutes of Health, the whole medical establishment in this country, knows that this is a key element in terms of research, that using tissue. And the tissue is donated by women.

GUILFOYLE: And they're also talking about violating the approved means of performing abortions so that they can create what's called a body bag by collapsing the two ends and pinching off so they can preserve more of the organs. So, they can make more money off of dead babies.

WILLIAMS: They don't make any money. They don't make any money.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Oh, Juan, therein lies the problem right there. If it's true that what they're claiming that they're performing these abortions and with the fetal tissue that ends up being there for them, that the only money that they take is to hold and transport the fetal tissue.

WILLIAMS: That's right.

BOLLING: That's what they're claiming.

WILLIAMS: Right.

BOLLING: That's not what that video says. That lady said, I need to know how much it's going to take to get my Lamborghini. I need to know how much you're willing to pay.

WILLIAMS: That was a bad. It was a crass, tasteless joke.

BOLLING: Listen to me, listen, when she started the conversation, how much are you willing to pay? You get that?

WILLIAMS: Eric, you don't understand. There is a business in this country in terms of fetal tissue. There's no question about that. You're right.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: The business is not about profit. That's the key point. Are they profiting?

PERINO: Are they doing it at a loss?

GUILFOYLE: I know, this is crazy.

BOLLING: That is the issue.

GUILFOYLE: We're going to take Juan's blindfold off.

WILLIAMS: First, let me do a mogul.

GUILFOYLE: Hillary Clinton -- and this is Juan's keeping company with.

Hillary Clinton!

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: You don't look like Hillary.

GUILFOYLE: My God, Hillary, you look tremendous today in coral.

PERINO: Where is it?

GUILFOYLE: OK, the control room lost the Hillary Clinton stuff, but I will read it for you.

"It is unfortunate that Planned Parenthood had been the object of such a concerted attack for so many years. It's truly an attack against women's rights to choose. So I am hoping that this situation will not further undermine the very important services", that's what you've been saying, "that Planned Parenthood provides."

WATTERS: This is what the left does, though, when they're under attack and their people are under attack. They circle the wagons and they try to kill the messenger. They did that with the ACORN videos. Remember how they targeted Breitbart and O'Keefe? They did that with the Tea Party after they started raising money during the midterms.

PERINO: The Benghazi video maker.

WATTERS: Right. The Benghazi video maker. Remember, they have gone after whistleblowers more than any other administration out there. But you know, when all of a sudden, their people expose things, you know, if someone exposes police misconduct. Oh, they're a hero. When someone exposes the 47 percent Romney video, hero.

You know, you can't have it both ways. Obviously, what this person did was expose something hideous, Juan. I think everybody agrees with that.

So, you can't all of a sudden say go after the messenger when actually you should be appalled by the conduct of Planned Parenthood.

WILLIAMS: You know, first of all, by the way, on the ACORN video, I think a lot of people said what they were up to was corrupt and wrong and illegal. But you can't do things -- you can't tell people how to evade the law. That's different than what's going on here.

And that was liberal and conservatives. And there were some people who tried to be defenders. Remember, they're just about gone, ACORN, right, gone, because of that incident.

I don't think you're going to see the medical establishment pull away from Planned Parenthood or the idea of research on fetal tissue.

WATTERS: But you're not going to see people not defend Planned Parenthood because Planned Parenthood gets Democrats elected.

PERINO: And Planned Parenthood is very exceedingly political. One of the things they did today was about Sandra Bland case, which is a tragic case in Texas. It's under investigation. And they said, we are going to stand by her and all the other black women who have been killed in police custody.

That is -- we do not know what happened in that jail cell, and if she committed suicide if she had mental illness. Her family says she doesn't. There's an investigation there.

But Planned Parenthood in order to try to find a different way to get off of this story was tweeting about that today, and avoiding answering the tough questions that are brought up by this investigation.

GUILFOYLE: Right. And in fact, the report show that is she committed suicide.

WILLIAMS: I think this is going to be -- this potentially could be a bigger issue for the entire 2016 campaign, because of these videos. Who does that benefit? The people who are energized by it, Republicans.

PERINO: Babies.

GUILFOYLE: Well, babies' lives matter. How about that, Juan?

New York's mayor blinks in a standoff with Uber. But he's still threatening the on-demand car service next. How a bunch of celebrities are helping Uber fight him. Stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WATTERS: A win for capitalism and with the help of Hollywood, no less. New York City's mayor has agreed to suspend his effort to cap the number of Uber cars on city streets. The decision comes amid backlash on social media from celebrities like Ashton Kutcher, Kate Upton and Neil Patrick Harris.

But Bill de Blasio promises this fight isn't over yet.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why did you cave?

BILL DE BLASIO, NYC MAYOR: Well, we haven't. What we said is here's a limit they agreed to for a period of time so we can study four months. At the end of four months, we retain all our options. If we decide we need a cap, we go in that direction.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WATTERS: So, the way to get Democrats to cave obviously, Hollywood makes them buckle. So, I mean, we want to fix New York's homeless problem tell de Niro to tell de Blasio to fix things, right?

PERINO: I love it when the left saves the left from itself, because this is what happened here. I don't know if people who were watching "CBS This Morning" are exactly interested in what's happening here in New York City for the number of cabs.

I think this comes back down to economic freedom. And the genius of the campaign from Uber was not to focus on like fancy people that get to drive Uber but actually the people who are getting job and employing themselves. Maybe it's a second job, whatever it is. They're actually happy employees of Uber, like they're their own businessmen. I think economic freedom is what people are looking for.

WATTERS: The mayor says it's about fighting traffic. We really know it's kowtowing to the union taxi guys and making sure cars don't pollute and we all ride mass transit. Isn't that what's really about?

BOLLING: There is so much graft and corruption that goes from these unions, right into these political campaigns. Probably millions of dollars comes from various sources making sure that they protect their -- keep competition out.

Dana is right. Economic freedom, drop the walls of competition. Prices come down. It's good for everybody, especially not only the people who are getting the jobs, the people who are being picked up. Again --

GUILFOYLE: Uber is cheaper than the taxi. I've investigated this.

BOLLING: You can call a Uber and they'll come to the Bronx and they'll come to Harlem and pick you up, whereas the yellow cab won't.

GUILFOYLE: Not passing you by like on the street or --

PERINO: Like they can't see you?

GUILFOYLE: Woo, who's that? Yes.

What I'm telling you is like this is good because it brings people into the city. It's good for the economy. This guy doesn't even have any business sense. I'm struggling to find one redeeming good quality or value of Big Bird.

WATTERS: And we know that you don't ever take the subway. You're always - -

GUILFOYLE: I did take it.

WATTERS: You took it once and there was almost a riot.

PERINO: Took it once with me.

GUILFOYLE: One with you.

WATTERS: Six inch heels and mini skirts rolling down the subway.

GUILFOYLE: It wasn't a mini skirts.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Juan, let me get to you -- aren't Democrats supposed to be the party of technology and progress? But just like, you know, the president can't launch a web site. They want to take over the internet. Hillary is going after Uber. De Blasio is going after Uber. What's with you guys?

WILLIAMS: You know what this is about? This is about money.

WATTERS: Yes?

WILLIAMS: It's about Medallions for cabs, right? And from my perspective, it has kept people out of the taxi cab business, both as drivers and a lot of minorities as drivers, because they can't afford. The Medallion used to cost $1 million and the price is now down because of Uber, down to about $700,000.

BOLLING: Juan, I came to New York, and Medallion was about $150,000. It got to $1 million.

WILLIAMS: It got up there, though.

BOLLING: Now, it's back down to $700,000.

WATTERS: Why Eric bought Medallion.

WILLIAMS: He's got something to say.

BOLLING: But why is it taxi Medallion a million -- think about that for a second. A million dollars? How about a free market? How about no Medallions?

WILLIAMS: I'm just trying to make the point here that what you see the mayor doing is reflecting the interests of people who already own a Medallion, don't want to see that value plummet, and they're trying to protect their own self-interest.

BOLLING: Go to de Blasio and say make sure to get uber out.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: He's on the side of corruption, basically.

(CROSSTALK)

WATTERS: Now, de Blasio has alienated everybody, OK? The entire country. Everybody hates him.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Best part of the segment is you're on the side of the celebrities and I discovered that you are on the subway.

GUILFOYLE: I was on the subway. It didn't go too well. A series of crimes that were committed, a lot of molestation and what not.

WILLIAMS: Oh, no!

WATTERS: OK. Got to go. More about that after the break.

Remember "Space Jam", the basketball team blockbuster from the 1990s starring Michael Jordan? There are major rumors swirling around about a sequel. We'll tell you which NBA great can star in it this time around, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: In 1996, Michael Jordan teamed up with a bunch of Loony Tunes to play some hoops on the big screen in "Space Jam".

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHARACTER: Ready?

CHARACTER: I got it. I got it.

CHARACTER: Coming your way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: Well, that film was a monster success. And now, nearly 20 years later, a reboot may be in the works. According to rumor, LeBron James is going to star in the sequel.

So, let me go to my basketball experts.

K.G. --

GUILFOYLE: So here's the deal.

WILLIAMS: Yes, ma'am.

GUILFOYLE: For sure, I'm all in on Michael Jordan. I think he's one of the greatest athletes of all time.

LeBron? I'm with your kids on this when I say that sometimes you have lost championships. You have lacked consistency. And you drink like those little mint drinks at Nobu that are a little disturbing.

WILLIAMS: You've seen this.

GUILFOYLE: Well, I'm just telling you.

WILLIAMS: OK. So, Dana, are you going to the movies if you have LeBron James?

PERINO: Well, here's the thing about this segment -- I don't go to the movies, I don't want cartoons and I know nothing about basketball.

WILLIAMS: That's why we're asking you.

PERINO: Here's what I like. It is said that LeBron wants to invest in a movie-making company or to get into entertainment. What I love is the diversification of the talent and looking to create jobs and reinvestment which is better than his money going to the government.

WILLIAMS: All right. So, now, we go to people who know too much about sports and we begin with you, Jesse. Does this make sense? Who would you pick, LeBron or Michael Jordan?

WATTERS: It's not even close. Jordan, he's undefeated in championships.

GUILFOYLE: See?

WATTERS: Six rings. Would have had eight if he didn't play baseball for the two years.

LeBron's 2-4. He's lost four times. It's embarrassing. The only rings he got were two when he went to Miami and won them with Bosh and Wade.

Jordan made his teammates better. LeBron doesn't do that. Jordan revolutionized the game. He played above the rim. He was poetic. He was beautiful to watch.

GUILFOYLE: Man crush.

WATTERS: LeBron doesn't have that game. He's kind of a brute. He doesn't have the killer instinct.

WILLIAMS: Another expert. Make a pick, Eric.

BOLLING: I think Jesse is right. I grew up watching Michael Jordan. Remember they won the championship, then a repeat, then the three-peat. They did it again. Repeat the three-peat.

But you're right. Jordan, Pippens, Steve Kerr, Dennis Rodman, they were a team.

PERINO: Larry Bird.

GUILFOYLE: Wrong team.

WATTERS: Stop it.

BOLLINNG: I think LeBron James is as good of an athlete as Michael Jordan is or was. He just doesn't have -- doesn't make his teammates better.

WATTERS: Doesn't have the mental edge that Jordan had.

WILLIAMS: This is a bar. A bar thing is broken out here. But guess what? One more thing is coming at you. Hang with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Time for one more thing, and Dana kicks it off.

PERINO: OK, Dana's tech tips. A bison --

BOLLING: Just like Greg. Dana's tech tip.

PERINO: Dana's tech tips brought to you by Greg Gutfeld unicorn mugs.

OK. A bison in Yellowstone National Park attacked a woman. OK, this is just something that you need to learn. When you are a 43-year-old woman, OK, do not try to take a selfie with the bison behind you when there's no fence, because the bison came up. We actually don't even have a picture because she wasn't able to get the picture. So, when you're at the national park, do not try to get pictures with an animal. Just take a picture without the selfie.

GUILFOYLE: Toes are just pictures of three bison?

BOLLING: One's missing.

PERINO: I did not step up my one more thing game enough.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: But thing is that this woman wasn't able to make a picture, and we can't say her name for -- whatever.

WILLIAMS: All right. All right.

PERINO: I will do better tomorrow.

WILLIAMS: Now, we come to the better one more thing. Which is a kiss and make up between two pop stars, Taylor Swift and Nicki Minaj. This feud starts when Nicki made a video "Anaconda" that broke ought kind of records for viewing. But she didn't get a video nomination for Video of the Year. That went to Taylor.

And she said, gee, you know, black women can't win in this game. Taylor responded. And now, people took sides. But they made up.

Today, an exchange of Twitter that said, we love each other. It was just a misunderstanding.

The world is safe.

GUILFOYLE: Oh my gosh! That was a better one?

BOLLING: Go ahead, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Behold, mine is by far superior to both of you.

Mine involves Paula Abdul and recreating the video from the past with Paula. Look, like so tall, like the attack of the giant women there.

So, opposites attract video with James Corden. He dressed up like MC Skat Kat. Can you show this?

PERINO: Oh, I love that song.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

GUILFOYLE: My girl's still got it. That was a picture from before. Very cute.

BOLLING: Go ahead, Jess.

WATTERS: All right. Well, we always knew that Norwegians were crazy. Now, we have proof. Roll it.

(VIDEO CLIP PLAYS)

WATTERS: Listen, never fall asleep in front of your friends.

GUILFOYLE: What happens if you jump into it?

WATTERS: I don't want to find out.

GUILFOYLE: You got startled.

WATTERS: They're crazy. I told you.

BOLLING: So we don't have time for mine so I'll forego it. We have a tie right now, because Dana's --

GUILFOYLE: No, no, no. Mine was the best one.

PERINO: Between Dana and Juan? Let me tell you, Juan, Dana's going to win.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

BOLLING: Tomorrow, you guys have to bring the A game.

WILLIAMS: The thing is, Dana is so cute. How can she lose?

PERINO: Tomorrow, I'm going to read all the tweets to Juan about all the women from the Republican Party who said they will not vote for Hillary just because she's a woman.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, Juan.

BOLLING: We've got to say goodbye.

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