Kate Steinle's brother blasts executive order on immigration

President Obama rejects sanctuary city crackdown on 'The Kelly File'


This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," July 22, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight in the middle of a heated national debate on the illegal immigration and just a day after families travel to Capitol Hill with heart wrenching tails of loved ones murdered by illegal immigrants, the White House remains defiant suggesting today that any law cracking down on the sanctuary cities that harbor illegal aliens would be dead on arrival when it hits the President's desk.

Good evening. And welcome to "The Kelly File" everyone, I'm Megyn Kelly. Congress today prepared the bill that would crack down on sanctuary cities meaning district that ignore federal immigration laws in order to provide a safe haven to those who are here illegally. When asked about the measure pushed by grieving families today the White House said this --


UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- had been building on the hill to stop federal funding to sanctuary cities, again, would the President veto legislation that aims to punish these cities, counties and jurisdictions?

JOSH EARNEST, PRESS WHITE HOUSE SECRETARY: The irony that I have noted in this situation is that many of those pieces of legislation were written and are supported by Republicans who oppose comprehensive immigration reform. Blocking comprehensive immigration reform would perpetuate a system that is closest thing we have to amnesty. So, when they raise concerns about how effectively our immigration system is working to keep the community safe, they have no one to blame but themselves.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would he specifically veto legislation that --

EARNEST: I think I have articulated why we don't take those legislative proposals particularly seriously.


KELLY: They don't take them seriously, that's the message 24 hours after a half dozen witnesses went before Congress to testify about this issue. Many were families who lost loved ones at the hands of illegal immigrants all of them begging Washington for some help.


SUSAN OLIVER, WIFE OF DEPUTY SHERIFF DANNY OLIVER: That man was in the country illegally and armed with numerous illegal weapons. He aimed one outside the car of a parking lot of Motel 6 in Sacramento and opened fire killing my husband with a shot to the forehead.

MICHAEL RONNEBECK, UNCLE OF GRANT RONNEBECK: Grant immediately offered cigarettes to the man who shot him pointblank in the face killing him. Seemingly unaffected the man coldly and callously stepped over Grant's dying body, grabbed a couple of packs of cigarettes and then left the store.

LAURA WILKERSON, MOTHER OF JOSH WILKERSON: Instead of getting Joshua home that day from school, we got an autopsy report that reads in part this body is received in a Gray body bag, Americans are dying daily at the hands of criminals that we don't even know are here.

JIM STEINLE, FATHER OF KATHERINE STEINLE: Suddenly a shot rang out, Kate fell and looked at me and said, "help me, dad." Those were the last words I will ever hear from my daughter.


KELLY: Well, that last person was Mr. Steinle, the father of Kate Steinle whose daughter was allegedly shot by an illegal immigrant with a long criminal record who should have been deported and was repeatedly but instead he has been put back on the street because of sanctuary cities policy in the city of San Francisco and they are all across this country in hundreds of cities just like San Francisco.

Joining me now, Brad Steinle, Kate's brother. Brad, thank you very much for being here.


KELLY: So, the White House response today is no, we are not doing it.  And you have your answer. You go to Capitol Hill. You testify and already you heard from Josh Earnest, these are not serious proposals.

STEINLE: Yes. It's hard to hear. You know, we put forth our best effort. We came to D.C. and try to make a change that we think is logical.  It's a matter of keeping felons off the streets. And instead of tackling the problem and being proactive I feel like there is a diversion and people aren't taking it seriously.

KELLY: I mean, not only did the White House say, this isn't serious, you know, this isn't a serious proposal but today Nancy Pelosi, San Francisco representative that now house minority leader comes out and says, this legislation ought to be called the Donald Trump act and says, it is wildly partisan, it's a misguided bill that second guesses the decision of police chiefs around the country about how to best ensure public safety.  

STEINLE: Well, anybody that would second guess the chief of police in San Francisco. He has obviously done a horrible job. And the fact that he let a seven-time convicted felon with five deportations bring him to your city and roll out the red carpet and let him go on to murder my sister, you are not doing a good job and you need to have some strict guide lines on how to cooperate with the federal government.

KELLY: I mean, the nerve, the nerve of her to become indignant at your attempt to second guess the sheriff who let out the man despite a detainer request from ICE who wound up killing Kate. What will get through to them Brad, what will get through to them if not the testimony we heard yesterday, Kate's death which has received national attention? She is indignant over the proposal to do something about it.

STEINLE: Yes. Words cannot express. We met with numerous senators in D.C. And we did have some positive feedback both on the Left and on the Right side. For those senators, congressmen and women that don't get what we are trying to do, it's narrow. It's black and white. We're just trying to keep felons off the street and keep Americans safe. And it doesn't go much further than that.

KELLY: Do you feel -- let me ask you this because it has been over a week now since you and I spoke the last time. Have you heard from the White House yet?

STEINLE: We have not. We are not really expecting a call. It's like what just happened in Chattanooga. You wait four days to lower the flags to half-staff. We've sat and waited for two weeks for a call. Seems as though you need to go out and protest and people need to be angry in order to get something done. I'm not going to be angry. My parents aren't going to get angry. We are going to try to take a proactive and positive way to get change done.

KELLY: I mean, after you specifically publicly said we would like to hear from them, you would like to hear from the White House, from the administration and yet, still in the wake of that they don't call. We played a soundbite last week of Sandra Fluke, a birth control activist.  She received a call from President Obama personally because Rush Limbaugh had called her a nasty name. And they cannot make the time to call your family after policies they support and won't change led to the death of your sister. It's hard to believe.

STEINLE: It is. It is hard to believe with government and people's agendas they have blinders on. And there is a blinder on many people, you know, in the White House. And they don't see Kate, they don't see her death as something that is meaningful. But we are going to keep pushing.  We are going to keep on trying to get like-minded people that understand what we are trying to accomplish and we're trying to keep people from having to deal with what we are dealing with today.

KELLY: What do you make of Donald Trump and Nancy Pelosi's association, they used to call this the Donald Trump law, Donald Trump act.  Has he reached out to your family?

STEINLE: He has. He has. I actually respect him. He had the decency to call. He called us a couple of times. And, you know, it's more than some have done. But this isn't Donald Trump's policy, this isn't Donald Trump's law. This is Kate's law. And it's very cut and clear.  It's to keep convicted felons that are illegal immigrants out of our country or in jail. It's very simple.

KELLY: Brad, very good to see you.

STEINLE: Good to see you, too. Thanks for having me.

KELLY: All the best to you and your family.

STEINLE: Thanks, Megyn.

KELLY: Well, we also have breaking news tonight in a case that is getting national attention. As THE KELLY FILE gets ahold of what could be key documents in the death of an African-American woman in police custody.

Up next, how this could change the case which Hillary Clinton just weighed in on.

Plus, well, by the way, Dana Perino is here. She will tell you what Hillary said and whether it may have land her on some trouble.

And then a growing number of republican presidential candidates now going after Donald Trump in a new and angry way. We'll show you why.  Frank Luntz is here with some interesting thoughts.

Plus, ugly fallout for a top anchor at ESPN after he has the nerve to defend Martin O'Malley's comments that all lives matter and ask why anyone -- no, he didn't defend the comment, he isn't defending the original comments but he is outraged about the apology. And he is asking why anyone would ever apologize for saying something like this.


GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY, D-2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Every life matters. And that is why this issue is so important. Black lives matter.  White lives matter. All lives matter.


KELLY: Breaking tonight. "The Kelly File" obtaining new documents in the case of an African-American woman who died in police custody following an ugly encounter with a Texas State trooper. Cops say, Sandra Bland's death a few days after that run-in was a suicide. Critics beg to differ saying, she had everything to live for. This case is gaining so much attention, it is even getting reaction now from presidential candidates like Hillary Clinton.

Dana Perino is here to talk about the controversial comments from Mrs. Clinton. In a moment, we will tell you what she said. But first, to those new documents that show Miss Bland had in fact told police that she had tried to kill herself in the past.

Trace Gallagher reports from our West Coast Newsroom. Trace.

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, "The Kelly File" has obtained a questionnaire Sandra Bland filled out when she got to the jail.  On it, she claimed she does have epilepsy and takes medication to treat seizures. But at the time, Bland says, she was not depressed and not suicidal but then goes on to acknowledge that after she lost a baby in 2015, she tried to commit suicide by taking pills. Her family reemphasized today they do not believe she killed herself. Listen.


CANNON LAMBERT, BLAND FAMILY LAWYER: It does raises questions, it raises questions why a 28-year-old woman would call her mother in excitement about those two jobs and then take her life.


GALLAGHER: The coroner has ruled she hanged herself with a plastic bag and motion sensitive surveillance video shows no one entered or left her cell in the hours before police last checked on her and when she was discovered unresponsive. Then there is the controversial dash cam video showing the traffic stop and arrest of Sandra Bland. In certain parts the video loops or repeats itself but the audio is uninterrupted. For example, you can see a car drive by. The next sprain the car disappears. Some believe the tape was edited but the Texas Department of Public Safety says, it simply had technical problems when it was uploaded. As for the content of the tape in his statement to supervisors, Officer Brian Encinia said, he tried repeatedly to de-escalate the situation during that traffic stop but the tape shows within 90 seconds it went from relatively calm to full on confrontation. Watch some of it.


BRIAN ENCINIA, STATE TROOPER: You mind putting out your cigarette, please for mine?

SANDRA BLAND, FOUND DEAD IN HER JAIL CELL: I'm in my car. Why do I have to put out my cigarette?

ENCINIA: You can step out now.

BLAND: I don't have to step out of my car.

ENCINIA: Step out of the car. Step out of the car.

BLAND: No, you do not have the right to do that.

ENCINIA: Step out of the car!

BLAND: You do not have the right to do that.

ENCINIA: I do have the right. Now, step out of the car or I will remove you? I am giving you a lawful order. I'm going to drag you out of here.

BLAND: So, you are going to drag me out of my own car.

ENCINIA: Get out of the car. I will light you up! Get out!


GALLAGHER: Texas DPS says, Officer Encinia violated procedures by not explaining his actions to Sandra Bland -- Megyn.

KELLY: Trace, thank you.

Well, just hours before these new documents came to light, presidential hopefuls including Hillary Clinton weighed in on Ms. Bland's death. Mrs. Clinton saying in part, quote, "I hope and expect that there will be a full investigation into this situation. It is also a tragic reminder of the ongoing systemic issues of race and justice in America that we must address with urgency and we have to do more than talk. We have to take action."

Dana Perino is co-host of "The Five" and former White House press secretary under President George W. Bush. Really?


KELLY: I mean, this is just a blatant political attempt to insert herself into the situation and pander, is it not?

PERINO: Certainly seems like, I mean, her statement right up until that last sentence, I actually thought was a good one. It was fine. And there is this weird thing of every presidential candidate wanting to be in on every single news cycle and respond to every single question that they are asked. And I actually -- there is not a federal nexus here and there is an investigation. She is a lawyer herself. She knows the investigations take time. And I think it would have been better for the family and for the police force including all of the police forces across America if she had just felt some restraint. I think that she is either being pushed by staff or herself lacking judgment and deciding what to comment on. I think she goes too far and I hope that going forward she would exercise some judgment and some discernment to take a pause before basically indicting the police forces all across America.

KELLY: Right. The systemic issues. This is tragic reminder of the ongoing systemic issues of race and justice in America. What is her evidence that this is based on race? That the arrest is based on race that his belligerent behavior was based on race. Maybe he is a hot head. You know, maybe he doesn't like the fact that she didn't comply right away.  That's how cops are. I've tried to defy a cop before. Well, not really, but I kind of a slow in producing my, you know, license and registration.  And they don't like it. They get irritated. I'm just saying, why? There is a reason she is doing this.

PERINO: Well, it is political. So, there is already action being taken by the Police Department. He is now on a desk assignment. They're doing investigation that already said he did wrong, that they didn't follow proper procedures. And it is disturbing when you see the video. In addition, her politicizing the issue doesn't comfort the family at all.  You have a grieving family of a woman who is either in distress then or before as she tells police officers in the documents that "The Kelly File" reveals. The issue of mental illness in this country is actually one that I think Hillary Clinton, if she wants to lead this country would be much better served in trying to help us try to deal with that because every single week on this show on others, we can talk about somebody either harming themselves or harming others and they trace it back to mental illness.

KELLY: Well, they jumped the gun. They want to get it, you know, so she is calling for an investigation, Bernie Sanders, too. Okay, so I suppose he wants an investigation. And yet, what he said was, oh, this is outrageous -- outrageous police behavior and the result of that is three days later she is dead in her jail cell. Well, that implies that a murder took place here. What we showed the audience tonight is that this woman has a history of being suicidal. The video tape of the jail cell does not show anybody going into the jail cell during the time in which she hanged herself. And yet, and then he comes out, Bernie Sanders and says, people should not die for a minor traffic infraction. Wait. I mean, way to light a flame to an already potentially explosive situation.

PERINO: It all does go back to politics and especially for Hillary Clinton. And she's looking across, I don't think she considers Bernie Sanders real competition. But she is going to be in the fight of her life to win this presidential election. And one of the things that she has to do is turn out African-American voters. They turned out in big numbers for President Obama both times. And that kind of enthusiasm, will it exist for Hillary Clinton. I think she is banking on it, maybe being less and what it was for President Obama, and I think the pandering and jumping ahead of an investigation and basically blaming entire police force not just in Texas but across the country.

KELLY: We just came off Ferguson, Missouri where they indicted that officer Darren Wilson unfairly as it turned out. And the DOJ wound up having to come out and say, he was totally exonerated. Look at even in the rapes situation, some of these campus rape situations. Rolling Stones gets embarrassed with its report. Obviously, there is the Duke case we reported on the Amherst case, and then there was this situation at Columbia where mattress girls walking around with the mattress on her back. And Senator Gillibrand brings her to the State of the Union. And it appears that story very much looks like it was made up and yet it is another strong democratic female trying to make a political issue out of a case that has a lot of questions surrounding it.

PERINO: There's a lot of reason to exercise some caution. National leaders get in trouble when they jump the gun on local issues. And President Obama we've learned this from him several times. When you jump in on a case especially when there is no federal connection then you had just in you're a-block, Brad Steinle, the brother of Kate Steinle. There is a federal nexus there and the White House -- it's not just that President Obama can't call and nobody can call. This is and that, then, looks political, as well.

KELLY: And yet they called Sandra Fluke. He called her personally.  That was worth his time.

PERINO: There are other examples of that, too.

KELLY: Dana, good to see you.

PERINO: Thank you.

Also tonight, Planned Parenthood is doing serious damage control after these doctors were caught on hidden camera talking about collecting fetal tissue for cash. We will show you why this group could now be on some real trouble.

And then a growing number of republican presidential candidates now going after Donald Trump in a new and angry way. And Frank Luntz is here next on where this is likely to go.


RICK PERRY, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He offers a barking carnival act that can best be described as Trumpism. A toxic mix of demagoguery and mean spiritedness --




DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: A war hero. He is a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured. I hate to tell you.


KELLY: Donald Trump's controversial comments about John McCain on Sunday and not just John McCain but P.O.W.s are having some unexpected consequences. As growing field of GOP rivals find themselves uniting against Donald Trump with a wave of opposition that seems to still be gathering steam.


PERRY: Let no one be mistaken, Donald Trump's candidacy is a cancer on conservatism and it must be clearly diagnosed, excised and discarded.

SEN. MARCO RUBIO, R-FLA., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is important for us to have a presidency that restores dignity and class to the White House.  And I don't believe that some of the language that Mr. Trump is employing is worthy of the office. I just do not.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM, R-S.C., PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think what you are seeing is a guy melting down, that it is one thing to have a reality TV show but if you turn the presidential campaign into a reality show you will eventually lose because Republicans want to win.


KELLY: Frank Luntz is CEO of Luntz Global and author of, "What Americans Really Want, Really." Frank, good to see you.

So, it was you to whom Donald Trump made controversial those comments.  That as I say, it wasn't all about John McCain. I mean, he broadened it out to I like people who aren't captured. But it's so -- I mean, if I made a list of controversial things he has said, we would be here all night.  And nonetheless, still number one in the polls right now. Why?

FRANK LUNTZ, CEO, LUNTZ GLOBAL: It's because he says what he thinks.  He's unedited. He is uncensored and the American people other than wanting genuine accountability from their next president, they want someone who tells it like it is. It is not about Trump's background and it's not even about Trump's policies because we really don't know what they are. What it is is that he says what comes to his mind and he doesn't sound scripted, he doesn't sound rehearsed and that 20 percent of America really likes that.

KELLY: Uh-mm. And he doesn't really go back on what he says. I mean, even under pressure he doesn't really flip. And that's unusual, too.

LUNTZ: And, in fact, you're doing a segment on him. It will increase his support another 10 or 15,000 people. Every time that the mainstream media focuses on him, every time someone says, hey, you have to get out of the race or you owe an apology and he doesn't do it, there is a segment of America that says, you know what, way to go. Stick it to them.

KELLY: Uh-mm.

LUNTZ: Look, what he said about P.O.W.s was horrific, what he said about John McCain tells me that this is going to be the most uncivil, the most mean election campaign that we have ever had. But again, I go back to that 20 percent of America that is tired of politics as usual and fed up with politicians who say what they think we want to hear rather than what they believe.

KELLY: What -- I mean, he is number one in a lot of polls. To what extent is that due to the fact that, you know, Donald Trump often says things like this? I will also say having known him for a while, he is a funny man. He cracks jokes a lot. He sort of makes comments often. You know? And you kind of used to hearing this stuff. I think it will be far more shocking if you heard it from, you know, Ted Cruz or Scott Walker or Jeb Bush. So, it is kind of like, I don't know if he means it. He just sort of says this stuff.

LUNTZ: He is a great guy to hang out with. I've spent some green room time with him. I have gone to these forums that he's spoken to. I listen to him. I am fascinated with him. I'm not saying that he is qualified to be president. I'm not saying that he should be president.  But to be around and the public likes to vote for someone who they can have a beer with. They like to vote for someone that they are captivated with.

KELLY: Right. But two things before I let you go, the GOP base tends to like faith based candidates. They like faithful candidates. And Donald told you that he is not somebody who turns to God when he has done something that he feels ashamed of. Was that the question?

LUNTZ: And he is not going to win the nomination because of it. That republican primary voters want someone who has a connection to their spirituality and willing to vocalize it and that is not Donald Trump.

KELLY: That was one and the second was the shot at P.O.W.s. I mean, you alienate the military on the GOP side, if they think you mean that, I should qualify, you are in trouble.

LUNTZ: Well, let me give you one statistic. Of all the different professions in America, there is none that is more popular across the board republican and democratic than the veterans and among Republicans, they are sanctified as they should be. If you are seen as being anti-veteran, if you are seen as being anti-P.O.W., you can't win the nomination. And that's going to be the focus of the FOX News debate. You know that you are going to have a food fight there and they are talking about what he really thinks of veterans and P.O.W.s.

KELLY: We are getting ready for the debate, right now I can tell the audience that we have a meeting and it has now moved into the phase where the three anchors and a couple of other folks sit down in a room and we are hammering out our questions. And what these GOP candidates would give to be a fly on the wall but they don't get to be. Just us. Great to see you, Frank.

LUNTZ: Thank you.

KELLY: It's fun. It's one of the best things we do. It is exciting.  The debate is going to be dynamic. It's going to be huge. It's going to be robust and just like the last time, FOX News is going to handle it better than anybody else because that is what we do.

Coming up. A discussion about Caitlyn Jenner turns into an explosive war of words between Breitbart's Ben Shapiro and transgender reporter Zoey Tur. Find out why Shapiro wound up filing a police report in this matter.

And presidential candidate Martin O'Malley had to apologize after he dared to say that all lives matter. Now an ESPN anchor is taking serious heat for defending that notion that yes, all lives matter.

And Richard Fowler and Rich Lowery are here to sort through the latest pile ones. Stay tuned.   


KELLY: . for defending that notion. But yes, all know lives matter. And Richard Fowler and Rich Lowry -- are here to sort through the latest (inaudible). Stay tuned.


CROWD: Lives matter.


KELLY: So what --


O'MALLEY: Every life matters and that is why this issue is so important. Black lives matter. White lives matter. All lives matter.



KELLY: That is democratic presidential candidate Martin O'Malley getting heckled at a liberal convention for actually saying, all lives matter. Imagine that? He then later came out and apologized for saying that. He is sorry. Well now, outspoken ESPN Analyst Steven Smith is taking heat himself for defending O'Malley's initial remark. Tweeting out quote, "I'm a black man. Of course, I know black lives matter. You can't boo a presidential candidate just because he says all lives matter. Where is all the noise about black lives matter when black folks are killing black folks?"

Joining me now to discuss it Richard Fowler, who is a national syndicated radio host and Rich Lowry, who is the editor at National Review and Fox News contributor. So those were his tweets and now, of course, you've got people online calling him an Uncle Tom. Saying, they've lost all respect for him. Saying, he would rather use his influence to parrot anti- black rhetoric, than to contribute to communities crippled by disenfranchise myth. Rich, he committed -- I guess the cardinal sin of agreeing that all lives matter.

RICH LOWRY, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: It's completely bizarre and he's of course, entirely right. And years from now, people will really be mystified about how one of our major political parties made it a forbidden phrase to say all lives matter. And Martin O'Malley just reacted like any normal human being to those protesters. He said black lives matter. White lives matter. All lives matter. If you don't agree with that sentiment, there is really something wrong with you.

KELLY: And then his spine got up and walked out of his body, when he then apologized -- first, for acknowledging the value of all lives, Richard. And now, a black man -- I believe he has earned the right to have an opinion on the matter, comes out and says look, if black lives matter, shouldn't we be concerned about what is happening in our own communities? He says, "Does it only matter when we are getting killed outside of our community, by folks who look differently than us?" That's our -- my point that is my point is the truth deal with it. What's wrong with what he said?

RICHARD FOWLER, NATIONAL SYNDICATED RADIO HOST: But here is the thing. I think in Steven's comments -- where the protesters got upset in Martin O'Malley was is the fact that white lives matter. If you hear all of them in the crowd, you hear somebody indicate, we know white lives matter. I think what is in question as an -- for the African-American community is whether black lives matter. I mean, you look at the lives of (inaudible) you know Tanisha Anderson, Sandra Bland, we're talking about early in the show, Freddie Gray, Tamir Rice, these individuals, their names who have been lost, young who have been because of bad acting police officers or bad acting laws.

KELLY: You're leaving to a lot of conclusions with some of those names.

FOWLER: And that is the problem that these protesters are saying. They're saying that indeed, we understand that white lives matter. But black lives should matter and that is what is in question.

KELLY: But the problem is that, obviously, this is how they feel, but that ignores the context. And yes, many black people were killed. Many black people were killed by police over the past year. More white people were killed by police over the past year. Far more white people were. And the notion that you gonna get white people to listen to the message and try to recognize that there's a problem. Rich, while you are telling them you can't even say that your lives also. You can't even say that you have a voice. Even saying that is irritating to us, will shut people down.

LOWRY: Yeah. I'll tell you, it's gonna be really mystifying to a lot of people if Hillary Clinton gets up on a debate stage in a couple of months, and can't say all lives matter. And look, some of these police cases are as hideous as they are portrayed and the police officers deserve to have the book thrown at them, but a lot of them are much more complex. Some of them are based entirely on falsehoods like the Michael Brown case. And the problem I have with the slogan, black lives matter, it comes down to a real radicalized, politicized, bullying, in these cases that isn't willing to examine the facts objectively, and then let the law fall where it may. But instead, always just wants one result. And you know what? Black lives matter, white lives matter, so do police lives.

KELLY: And what's with Richard, the demonization of any black man who dares to say something that is not acceptable to those pushing for change, right? Or something that's not -- that doesn't sound like liberal dogma, poor Clarence Thomas. I mean, speaking of, you know, the Uncle Tom charge. It's outrageous what has been said about him, outrageous. And now this guy at ESPN gets the same thing because he dared send out a few thoughtful messages on his own take.

FOWLER: Oh, one, to answer Rich's point. This ideal that you know, black lives matter, has been radicalized, I think is a farce. I think what is radical is the fact that you know, African-American unarmed men are being killed by police officers. But to answer your question, in particular, Megyn, I think you the (inaudible) and I said this couple of times. It runs a couple of piece in Huffington Post about it, right? The ideal -- it doesn't matter if you are black, white or indifferent, right? Just because you are a black man and you say something about black people, it doesn't necessary mean that you are a representative of all black people. I think what these what --

KELLY: You don't deserve to call him Uncle Tom.

FOWLER: What the black live matter movement is saying is they are saying that you don't represent where we are coming from. You represent our views. We believe that -- let's not talk about black on black crimes. Yes, we need to work on it, we need to fix. And we ultimately.

KELLY: They are not the only ones with an opinion.

FOWLER: Institutional racism, right?

KELLY: They are not the only ones with an opinion. There are others.

FOWLER: Exactly. That Donald Trump is not the only one with an opinion.

KELLY: There are other black men who have opinions. Like this one.

FOWLER: But the Republican Party started shouting him down.

KELLY: Or expressing them.

FOWLER: Listen, like I said, Donald Trump has opinions to the Republican Party.

LOWRY: Bullying.

KELLY: Bullying.


KELLY: Hold on.

FOWLER: Go ahead, Rich.

KELLY: Go ahead Rich Lowry

LOWRY: I jut gonna say there is a bullying at the heart of this, when you are shouting people down for just saying, all lives matter, that is bullying. When you are calling Steven Smith horrible, these horrible names just voicing his opinion on Twitter, hey, look, it's Twitter, it happens sometimes, that is bullying.

KELLY: Steven does have his spine, however. He has this spine.

LOWRY: And for Michael Brown, we heard for months and months and months that he --

FOWLER: Rich. Rich, what happened to Sandra.

KELLY: We got to go.

FOWLER: Was bullying.

KELLY: All right. I got to go.

FOWLER: When she was -- the police officer pulled her out. That is what you called, bullying at the highest order.

KELLY: His behavior to her was shocking, there's no question, but.

FOWLER: It was you being a bully, and black lives matter because of that.

KELLY: But you go right to the race place, Richard, right there. I got to go. Good to so you both.

FOWLER: Good to see you too, Megyn.

KELLY: Planned Parenthood doing serious damage control tonight after these doctors caught on hidden camera talking about collecting fetal fetus for cash. It was the way in which they said it. It was the casualness with which they discussed the crashing of babies, of fetuses. Ed Henry is next on the political fallout.


KELLY: A new developments tonight on the bombshell undercover videos, featuring Planned Parenthood abortion doctors, Deborah Nucatola and Mary Gatter, negotiating prices and talking in a shocking way about the best way to harvest fetal body parts for research while performing abortions.


DR. DEBORAH NUCATOLA, PLANNED PARENTHOOD SENIOR DIRECTOR FOR MEDICAL SERVICES: We've been very good at getting heart, lung, liver, because we know that. So I'm gonna crush that part. I'm going to basically crush below, I'm gonna crush above, and I'm gonna see if I can get all intact.

MARY GATTER, PLANNED PARENTHOOD MEDICAL DIRECTOR: But you know, the money is not the important thing for me.

BUYER: No, no.

GATTER: But it has to be big enough that it makes it worthwhile for me --

BUYER: But it is.

NUCATOLA: AV nodes, SA, I was like wow, I didn't even know, good for them. Yesterday was the first time she said people wanted lungs.

BUYER: Uhuh.

NUCATOLA: And then, like I said, always as many intact livers as possible. People just want.

BUYER: Yeah, liver is huge right now.

GATTER: Which may not be a big problem, if our usual technique is suction, at 10 to 12 weeks, and we switch to using an IPAS or something with less suction. Or increase the odds that it will come out as an intact specimen.


KELLY: Ed Henry, our chief white house correspondent has more on how democrats are responding, Ed?

ED HENRY, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, Hillary Clinton waited near hours to weigh in on Republican frontrunner Donald Trump's comment about Senator McCain. She declared it was shameful that it took republicans so long to stand up to Trump. Yet after a week of revelations, and two controversial video tapes, Clinton herself has not stood up to Planned Parenthood. Group leaders are long-time political allies, and it's interesting that their employees have given Clinton nearly $10,000 in campaign contributions. None of the democratic candidates are speaking out. We check with Jim Webb, Lincoln Chafee, and Martin O'Malley, who is Catholic. They all had no comment. Bernie Sanders is a democratic socialist, he's the only one who has commented, but all he said was he's glad Planned Parenthood has apologized for the tone of the first video tape, the tone not the substance. Republican Carly Fiorina said, "Enough is enough," on what was she called deafening silence from democrats. While Senate Democratic Leader Harry Reid did come out and defend Planned Parenthood by citing the benefits from human fetal tissue research, listen.


CARLY FIORINA, R- PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Democrats have always fought for a policy that says. It is not a life until it leaves the hospital. Hillary Clinton has fought to preserve that policy.

SEN. HARRY REID, R-NEV., MAJORITY LEADER: (inaudible) Nobel Prize was awarded because of this. These politically motivated videos raise some questions, but nothing I have seen indicates Planned Parenthood violated federal laws.


HENRY: And Planned Parenthood officials say these tapes have been heavily edited and they will vigorously fight republican efforts to cut off their taxpayer funding, Megyn?

KELLY: Ed, thank you. Well, today, 50 U.S. senators, including one democrat, called on the fed to investigate Planned Parenthood in light of the videos. In addition, eight states have called for investigations. Which had some declaring today, fears on the left grow for Planned Parenthood.

Joining me now Dana Loesch, author of "Hands Off My Gun" and host of "Dana," on the Blaze TV and Nomiki Konst, founder and executive director of the Accountability Project. So, Dana, it's surprising to some to see that in the wake of these videos, democrats today, pushed for legislation or push for investigations into the people who made the videos. Not --


KELLY: No problem with what Planned Parenthood did or even, you know the tone and no, you know, there is no -- it was doubling down in favor of the group.

LOESCH: How exactly right, Megyn. They are trying to prevent another acorn from happening, that's what they fear. And they realize that once congress starts investigating, especially when they start investigating the felony sale of these infant body parts, when they look at possible criminal conspiracy done by all of these different clinics. Apparently, under the order of their medical director and the president of their board of medical directors there, about how they try to skirt some of the issues so that Planned Parenthood as a whole isn't implicated. All of this is going to call the group public funding into question, and they could go the way of acorn. In fact, they stand a very good chance, especially with videos to come.

KELLY: Nomiki, do you think that this hurts the pro-choice movement? To see these two women, abortion doctors, talking about the procedure in a way that they do?



KONST: This organization that did this, with so organization that did this, was a group of right-wing activist, who have previously called to assassinate, for people who assassinate, abortion providers. They illegally created these videos. They tape the videos in California without consent and they have doctor over three hours worth of video content.

KELLY: But Nomiki, here's my question for you. Nobody made them say, this is how I crush them. I crush them above the thorax, I crush them below. And nobody -- this woman on the right made her say, let's see if we can do it so that the fetuses are less crunchy, so you can get your part. That -- you know what made them say that?

KONST: Poor choice of words.

KELLY: And they did not deny it.

KONST: Absolutely, poor choice of words. No one is questioning that. But it was, to be fair, this was done in a setting, in a professional setting among medical doctors, these weren't messengers of Planned Parenthood. These were two people who work for Planned Parenthood.


KELLY: But it shows you how they really feel.

KONST: That's a personnel issue. That's a personal issue.

KELLY: I don't know. Maybe it's because Dana, it's not a shocked that abortion is legal in this country. What's shocking is just the casualness with which they discuss it.

LOESCH: Yes. So you are absolutely right. I would disagree with Nomiki on this one instance where she says they are not messengers for Planned Parenthood. I don't know how much more authoritative you can get than having the medical director of Planned Parenthood and be president of the board, of the medical board there, to say these things on camera, and Megyn, they were not.

KONST: Dana, they didn't know they were on camera.

LOESCH: Selectively edited.

KONST: It was a secret.

LOESCH: They were not selectively edited.

KONST: Hidden Cameras.

LOESCH: They were not heavily doctored.

KONST: She's got 20 seconds out of two hours of footage.

LOESCH: In fact, the last video was.

KELLY: Hold on, hold on.

LOESCH: Nomiki, you are going to split -- you are not shaking people's screens with that tone, when the last video that was uploaded to YouTube, Megyn, 21 seconds apart from the full raw untouched video. So these are -- I want to bring this up really quick too, Megyn. Remember when Mitt Romney had his 47 percent remark? No one freaked out about the method used to obtain that remark. But suddenly, now it is a concern.


KELLY: The thing is if you look at like how people feel about abortion in the country -- when it comes to second term abortion, and certainly third -- trimester I should say, the numbers go way down. Look at that. I mean that the country -- look at that, 64 percent want it to be illegal on second trimester. That's 12 weeks at and thereafter, 80 percent in the third trimester and you got this woman on the first tape, talking about 17 week. She has said a 17 weeker today. Talking about the organs she got from it. It can be stomach turning even for pro-choices.

KONST: It is a stomach turning, you're right. But, again, let's get back to the original point. You know we're not.

KELLY: But this is my point. Whether it's gonna hurt Planned Parenthood and the support for it, when it's people -- shoved the people's faces is what exactly they do and how -- and their attitude in doing it.

KONST: Well, OK. They have made several efforts to try to do this in the past. It won't. And that's why democrats aren't reacting. And that's why most news publications today, came out and just ignored it and said this wasn't a legitimate attack on Planned Parenthood.


KONST: They didn't break any laws. Absolutely, no laws are broken.

KELLY: That's a different question.

KONST: All they're doing is transport the need tissues.

KELLY: I (inaudible) to the questions. Great to see you both.


KELLY: Thank you very much.

Don't go away. Up next, the comments that set off a fight between Ben Shapiro and transgender reporter, Zoey Tur.


ANNOUNCER: From the world headquarters of Fox News, it's "The Kelly File," with Megyn Kelly.

KELLY: Tonight, an eye opening story from California about an event that started as a discussion about Caitlyn Jenner being honored and ended with conservative journalist Ben Shapiro in a fierce fight with the legendary helicopter reporter, who is transgender. Trace Gallagher live in our west coast newsroom with the story, Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, it happens on the Dr. Drew show on Headline News. The discussion was on whether Caitlyn Jenner deserved to be awarded the Arthur Ashe Courage Award of the ESPY last week. On the panel was Zoey Tur, a transgender reporter from Inside Edition and Ben Shapiro, the senior editor-at-large from Breitbart and frequent guest on Fox news. The debate got heated when Shapiro said that anyone with male cells and male appendages is a male. Here's what happened next.


ZOEY TUR, TRANSGENDER REPORTER FROM INSIDE EDITION: So you don't know what you're talking about. You're not educated on genetics.



SHAPIRO: What are your genetics?

PINSKY: Zoey, let's stay away from the genetics and back to the brain scans.

TUR: You cut that out now, or you'll go home in an ambulance.

SHAPIRO: That seems mildly inappropriate for a political discussion.


GALLAGHER: After the show, Shapiro claimed Zoey Tur threatened him again. And the next day, Tur was quoted in saying, she liked to curb stomp Shapiro. Than a few days later, on an L.A. radio talk show. Zoey Tur said the neck grab was merely a love hold. And when Tur was asked point blank if she threatened then Shapiro, she tripled down. Listen.


(UNIDENTIFIED MALE): Were you threatening him?

TUR: No. I wasn't -- well, maybe I was. Yeah, probably, I had had enough.


GALLAGHER: Tur is also accused of tossing anti-Semitic insults to Ben Shapiro saying, he comes from a misogynist and (inaudible) where women are treated differently and not allowed to touch men. Shapiro has filed a police report against Zoey Tur alleging battery. Tur has simply laughed it off, Megyn?

KELLY: Let that marinate over the break.


KELLY: We'll be right back.



KELLY: So tomorrow, we have Marc Thiessen, Howard Kurtz, Ann Coulter, Sheriff Clarke and (inaudible), should name few. Maybe we'll ask (inaudible) about that Ben Shapiro complaining against her. Set your DVR, with your thoughts. See you tomorrow at 9.

Content and Programming Copyright 2015 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2015 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.