This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," July 20, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight. Serious new questions for the commander-in-chief. As a growing number of Americans want to know why the White House is not doing more to recognize the deaths, the murders of four marines and U.S., one U.S. sailor killed in a possible terrorist act on American soil.
Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. It is one of our nation's most solemn symbols of mourning. Flying the flag at half- staff signifying the country's loss. But tonight, five days after a gunman ambushed marines at two military facilities in Chattanooga, and 72 hours after we learned that a fifth victim, a sailor has died from his injuries, the White House flag has not been lowered. Hours ago, reporters asked the White House Press Secretary Josh Earnest, why? Why this gesture has not been made. Well, it has been in the aftermath of similar tragedies before. The White House provided no explanation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Following Newtown, following the Boston bombing, following the massacre at Fort Hood, the President ordered the flags be lowered to half-staff. There were questions raised on why the President hasn't done the same, following the Chattanooga shooting. The White House's response to those questions.
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I would anticipate that you will hear the President discuss this a little bit more in his remarks, that will be tomorrow. I don't have more information about the status of the flag over the White House.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Meanwhile, despite the lack of a proclamation from the President, some Americans are acting on their own. Mayor Sal Panto of Easton, Pennsylvania decided Saturday to lower his city's flag even though only a governor or a president can legally give that order. And across the country, ordinary citizens are showing up outside of military recruiting centers, carrying their own legally licensed firearms. Volunteering to protect the service members who are barred from carrying weapons by federal regulations.
Tonight, we are joined by republican Congressman Duncan Hunter, Marine Corps veteran and Medal of Honor recipient Dakota Meyer, and former chief presidential speech writer Marc Thiessen.
But we begin with Trace Gallagher with breaking news on the suspected gunman in a confrontation moments ago between FBI agents, investigating the attack and a teenager. Trace.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Minutes ago, Megyn, FBI agents in Chattanooga were outside the apartment complex of an acquaintance of Muhammad Abdulazeez when suddenly a 15-year-old walked around the corner with an airsoft pellet gun and a pistol. He pointed them at the agents. They demanded he dropped the guns immediately and after some coaxing, he finally did. The scare we can report is over but a very good illustration of how high tensions are in the area tonight.
Meantime, the portrait family and friends are painting of Muhammad Abdulazeez is that of a man struggling with drug addiction, alcoholism and bipolar disorder. Saying he had a weak mind and was easily influenced by others. They say before Abdulazeez shot and killed five U.S. military members, he rented a Ford Mustang and went on a three-day bender drinking and driving at excessive speeds through the Chattanooga Mountains. Just three months ago, he was arrested for DUI with white powder found on his nose. Abdulazeez's father says, he sent his son to live with his grandfather in Jordan to get him away from non-Muslim friends who were a bad influence.
But simply blaming depression and addiction would ignore growing evidence that Muhammad Abdulazeez also had some anti-American sentiments. For example, random writings from last year found in Abdulazeez's home are described as senior correspondent John Roberts says, as angry, hand-written notes talking about suicide, becoming a martyr and referencing the Middle East. Some also expressed displeasure with America and the war on terror. Investigators acknowledge they have no hard evidence linking him with any specific terror groups but they are still combing through his travel history amid reports that Abdulazeez may have also gone to Kuwait and possibly Yemen. Today a member of the Senate Homeland Security Committee said this on "your word." Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SENATOR BEN SASSE, R-NEB., SENATE HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: There's a lot we don't know about Chattanooga yet. What we do know is the era we're entering is going to have a lot more of this, where soft targets are exploited by people who believe in killing in the name of religion.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: And a friend of Abdulazeez just told me moments ago, he would often go shoot guns with him at a Chattanooga shooting rage. He believes they shotguns that were used in the attack -- Megyn.
KELLY: Trace, thank you. Joining us now, Marc Thiessen who is a FOX News contributor and former chief presidential speechwriter for George W. Bush. Marc, good to see you tonight.
MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Good to see you, Megyn.
KELLY: Does it mean anything? Does it mean something to have the White House flag, to have the order come, that the flag should be flown at half-staff?
THIESSEN: Oh, absolutely it does. Look. There are lots of things about the presidency that are really hard. This is not one of them. Okay? This is, I mean, five days, the President has not referred to what happened in Chattanooga as a terrorist attack. Five days, he hasn't lowered the flag. He bathed the White House in rainbow lights to celebrate the Supreme Court decision on same sex marriage but he can't lower the flag for four marines at a U.S. navy petty officer who were killed in a terrorist attack on our soil.
KELLY: He instead went and played golf and went to a fund-raiser over the weekend. He is being criticized for that, Marc. However, you know having worked for a president, they need R&R. They need to burn off steam.
THIESSEN: Yes. I know they need their R&R. But you know, President Bush gave up golf during the course of the war on terror because he didn't think the optics of the President going out and enjoying themselves in the golf course, where Americans were being killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, was the right ones to have. And certainly the optics of the President on the United States going to a fundraiser, going to a Broadway show, going and playing golf as he did this weekend, literally two days after a terrorist attack on our soil are not very good either.
KELLY: He spent some time with his daughters. I mean, they need family time as well.
THIESSEN: Yes. You know what? There's some marines and the U.S. Navy petty officer families in Tennessee whose dads are not going to be able to take them to a show any time soon. So, you know, people just lost their dads, people just lost their husbands, people just lost brothers and sisters. So, he is the commander-in-chief. He is their commander-in- chief. These people died wearing the uniform of the United States. Under attack from a Muslim extremist with an AK-47 who attacked not one but two military installations in the United States. That calls for the commander- in-chief to do something.
KELLY: Why? Why do you think the President has made the decision thus far to say very little about this other than lone gunman and this is heartbreaking?
THIESSEN: I don't think that this is what he wakes up in the morning to do. To be the commander-in-chief to wage a war on terror. I think that he came into office to end George Bush's war not to win them. And so, he is uncomfortable with the role of commander-in-chief and the role of fighting this war. And so, he wants this wars to end. He doesn't want to be the one who is leading the country in a time of war. But the fact is, war is being visited on us. It was just visited on us in Chattanooga, Tennessee. And it could be visited on us again. And he has to lead whether he wants to or not.
KELLY: He is getting hit for not calling this terrorism. The U.S. attorney said, we're investigating this as an act of terrorism. But the President wouldn't go that far. His defenders say, he is the commander-in- chief he will should be more judicious in his tone before we know exactly what happened. He shouldn't get out ahead of his skis.
THIESSEN: Yes. That might be fair if wasn't for the fact that there is a pattern here. So, you know, he called the Christmas Day bomber an isolated extremist. He referred to Benghazi as being over an internet video. The attack on a Paris kosher deli by Muslim extremists was a random act of violence. So there is a pattern here of downplaying terror. And again, I think it is because this is not what he wants to get up in the morning and do. This is not what he came to office to do. He didn't come to office to be the commander-in-chief in a time of war. He came to end wars and transform America. And so, he is consistently downplaying the terrorism. And the problem is, when you downplay terrorism, you can't defeat terrorism. And when you don't defeat terrorism, then terrorism doesn't come and visits our shores.
KELLY: The White House today said, wait until tomorrow. He's going to make remarks at the VFW. And so we'll wait to hear when he speaks to veterans tomorrow, what he says. But what we are being told is, there will be some remarks. We can't get into all of them because they've been embargoed. But he's going to address among other things, predatory lending. We hope he addresses predatory jihadists. But in the meantime Marc, the White House stands on this. President Obama came out and made clear, we take, this is a quote, "We take all shootings very seriously."
THIESSEN: Yes. First of all, tell that to the family of Kate Steinle. They still haven't heard from President Obama and he still hasn't condemned that attack. A criminal alien killed a woman in broad daylight in San Francisco. So, I don't think they take all shootings seriously. But second of all, this isn't just another shooting. This was in a terrorist attack on our country. ISIS published a hit list of American service members. They called on their members to attack American service members here at home and all of a sudden, it happens. This is an attack on the country. And he has to respond to it. He can't simply ignore it. And he's got no choice. If he goes in front of those veterans tomorrow and doesn't address this, he's going to get a very unpleasant reception.
KELLY: Mark, thank you.
THIESSEN: Thanks, Megyn.
KELLY: Well, we are also hearing questions tonight about the DOD suggesting some marines should stop wearing their uniforms. At recruiting centers to avoid being targets. Medal of Honor recipient Dakota Meyer has some thoughts on that. And so does Congressman Duncan Hunter who is actually doing something to protect our men and women in uniform, next.
Plus, a dramatic new push to claw back hundreds of millions in tax dollars from Planned Parenthood after this doctor is caught on video making some very troubling comments.
And -- why is presidential candidate Martin O'Malley having to apologize for suggesting that, brace yourself, all lives matter. That must-see debate is just ahead.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, wait, wait a second.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALLEN WYATT, FATHER OF MARINE KILLED IN CHATTANOOGA: He probably would have been proud of how he died. I wish he had not died. Never wished him to be a hero. But I know he did what he could do.
(END VIDEO CLIP) KELLY: That was the father of Marine Staff Sergeant David Allen Wyatt, one of the five brave men killed in the terror attack we saw in Chattanooga last week. Men who were unable to defend themselves. Thanks to regulations that keep guns off of military installations. A single harrowing image. Now summing up the outrage over that policy. As a no firearms sign. One of the crime scenes stands riddled by gunfire. A product of a regulation that left everyone inside as sitting ducks. Folks like this man have now gone so far as to stand guard at recruiting stations on his day-off while the DOD is reacting a different way. Suggesting that marines consider ditching their uniforms in order to avoid being targets. Tell that to this five-year-old boy. The son of a deployed marine who showed up in Tennessee this weekend wearing a uniform just like dad's.
Dakota Meyer is a U.S. Marine Corps veteran and Medal of Honor recipient. Congressman Duncan Hunter is also a marine combat veteran and a member of the House Armed Services Committee, he is introducing a bill tomorrow to help this men and women protect themselves.
Gentlemen, thank you both for your services and for being here. Dakota, thank you. I'll start with you. Just, I mean, so you our viewers know, you are the only, I just want to get the language right. The first living marine in 38 years to be honored as you had them with the Medal of Honor. Your service to our country has been extraordinary. And here's the videotape of you with the President in 2011. Your reaction to this suggestion that the focus at these recruiting centers not wear their uniforms to stay safe.
DAKOTA MEYER, MARINE CORPS VETERAN: I think that's the craziest thing ever. Terrorism is when people come over and they instill fear inside of people to where they change their way of life. And that's how terrorism winds. And that's how it grows. And I can tell you, the last thing that I would hope that any marine would do is take their uniform off because of their fear that something might happen. I mean, that's crazy. That's crazy to even think that way. What we need to do is we need to give them the opportunity to be able to carry their own firearms. I mean, you know, they tied our hands over in Iraq and Afghanistan with rules of engagement. Are they going to do it over here too?
KELLY: Walk us through it. What would a marine -- I mean, what would the reaction be in this moment when you are a marine, you are in your uniform. You normally have your weapon. Only here you may not have that. And now you may not have your uniform. I mean, what does that feel like to a marine?
MEYER: It's not happening. I'll just tell you, it's not happening. They're not going on take their uniform off. I mean, when are we going to start standing up to what's right? You know, when are we going to stop worrying about hurting people's feelings? And we don't want to say the wrong things. Look, this isn't about -- it's not about Muslims, it's not about Christians, it's not about any of it, it's not about religion. It's not about skin color. It's about a belief in order to hurt other people and to instill terrorism. It is a belief of this radical Islam. And when are we going to stand for it? When are we going to stand against it? When are we going to stop it? When are we going to do that instead of changing our way of life? We don't want to hurt their feelings. It is only a lone wolf. No, it is not a lone wolf. That has happened over 20 times to where service members have been killed. When does it going to stop?
KELLY: Congressman Hunter, you have a different idea in how to, in terms of how to keep our men and women safe. Tell us what it is.
REP. DUNCAN HUNTER, R-CALIF., MARINE COMBAT VETERAN: Yes. And I think this is going to happen more and more, Megyn. Well, it is pretty simple. Number one, if you have civilians guarding military personnel, because we've disarmed our military personnel. That's a sad state of affairs.
KELLY: It's crazy. Isn't that crazy to think about?
HUNTER: It's sad.
KELLY: These civilians standing out there with their firearms while the marines have none?
HUNTER: Yes. Let's do this. Let's give every staff, non- commissioned officer or officer who is trained in the .9 millimeter pistol. Let's let them carry one. Keep it in the building. And if they can't do that, if the state or the city code says that you're not allowed to have weapons. And let's at least have what me as a member of the U.S. House of Representatives is required to have in my district office. And that's an entry way. Like an entry control point where you have to push a button to let people in. Let's at least do that. Let's not just say, we're not going to wear uniforms. We're going to close the blinds. We're going to huddle in our recruiting centers and you know, wait for the bad guys to come.
KELLY: Uh-mm. But you know, Dakota, the reason they're doing this --
HUNTER: You know, even -- have security guards at the mall.
KELLY: But the reason they're doing this Dakota is because they say they want to keep, at least for the time being. They want to take an immediate action to keep the men and women safe. And right now, they are not.
MEYER: I mean, why not, I mean, why does it matter where we can carry guns and where we can't? Look, what do all these people who don't want to us carry guns do when they have a problem or they have an issue? They call people with guns. So, you know, why can we not carry -- if wearing uniform, why can we not carry? Why can't we carry?
KELLY: I mean, there was a law passed by President George -- who signed into law by President George Bush, the elder and it has been on the books for years, but the question is Congressman, that was a long time ago and it was before we were being targeted on the homeland. Specifically with threats to military men and women at their recruiting installations.
HUNTER: Right. You know, if you were to mention the Patriot Act or the NSA, pre-9/11, and say we need something like that, people would say that you're nuts. If you talk about it now, people understand, yes, there is a definite need for that now. Same thing here. I mean, radical Islam is going to strike the soft targets over and over and over again. You'll going to have probably members of Congress getting shot. You'll going to have people in the recruiting centers being shot. Being blown up. Anything that they can do to strike at what they see as representing American values and American patriotism. That's where the radical jihadists are going to strike. So, let's make it tough for them. Let's make sure that there is a marine staff, non-commissioned officer in the recruiting center who has short gunfire before. And who ran towards the sound of gun fire, not away from it. So, let's have him sitting there for Muhammad whoever when they come to the recruiting center next time. But that's what we need to do. We at least to have instill some question mark in the jihadist' head. Some fear or some sort, that if they go busting in to this recruiting center, they might get shot in the face.
KELLY: They know the rules prohibit the firearms -- they see the big sticker on the window saying no guns allowed and they see these men and women as I said like sitting ducks. Guys, thank you so much. Great to see you both.
HUNTER: Thank you.
MEYER: Thank you.
KELLY: Well, there's some dramatic new developments tonight with that bombshell undercover video of a top doctor from Planned Parenthood talking about harvesting fetal organs for research. The President of Family Research Council Tony Perkins is here next with a message for lawmakers who have accepted what he calls tainted money from the coffers of Planned Parenthood.
Plus, Donald Trump sparks another political firestorm with comments about Senator John McCain's war record. But this time, Trump says the media is twisting his words. We will fact check with Howie Kurtz and Megyn McCain.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, R-PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He's a war hero. He was a war hero because he was captured. I like people who weren't captured.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Developing tonight, a new push to cut hundreds of millions in tax dollars from Planned Parenthood after an undercover video turns up a disturbing look at the group's abortion practices and certainly the attitude of its chief abortion provider. The video surfaced last week featuring Dr. Deborah Nucatola, she is Planned Parenthood's senior director for medical services. You see her having lunch with actors posing as people looking to obtain organs and fetal tissue from abortions in order to perform medical research. This is a short clip, it is extremely graphic.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DEBORAH NUCATOLA, PLANNED PARENTHOOD, SENIOR DIRECTOR OF MEDICAL SERVICES: The kind of rate limiting scape of the procedure is calvarium. Calvarium -- the head -- is basically the biggest part. Most of the other stuff can come out intact. UNIDENTIFIED BUYER: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED BUYER: To bring the cavity body out intact and all that?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Time for more salad. Planned Parenthood's president has apologized for the tone the doctor uses but insists the group's actions are legal. Many conservatives have challenged that. And presidential candidate Rand Paul is already talking about using a filibuster to go after the $500 million a year this group gets from you, from the taxpayers. My next guest is also urging lawmakers who got campaign donations from Planned Parenthood's PAC to return the money.
Joining me now, Tony Perkins, president of the Family Research Council. Tony, good to see you. And so, the White House has asked specifically whether they will join the push to now stop to reconsider the federal funding for Planned Parenthood. And the answer was very clear. No. No, we will not. Your idea is what?
TONY PERKINS, PRESIDENT, FAMILY RESEARCH COUNCIL: Well, Megyn, first let me just say the disclaimer there that the President almost shutdown the government back in 2011 to ensure that Planned Parenthood continued to get taxpayer dollars. Let me give another disclaimer here. I believe every human life should be protected because it was created in the image of God. But when an organization such as Planned Parenthood has evident such as this that you just showed that strongly suggests that they are trafficking in the body parts of aborted babies, look. Look, that's beyond the pale and most Americans agree. Those politician that benefited from the political largess of Planned Parenthood, yes, I do believe they should return it.
KELLY: But let me just ask you though because I don't know if they'd got them on that. I mean, if you look at the full tape, they talk about selling, transacting the baby organs, a fetus' organs at a cost $30 to $100 which they say is a reimbursement for the transmission of the organs. It is not a fee. It's not a profit.
PERKINS: Well, but look at also what they say about how they and attract these parts. Where the mother is supposed to be the first patient. We were told that by the Clinton that they wanted abortion to be legal, safe and rare. It is certainly not safe when your primary decision on how to extract the parts of the baby are pre-eminent over the health and care of the mother.
KELLY: Well, and that is a potential problem, Senator Cruz has raised the issue that the law is very clear, that you're not allowed to change the way you perform an abortion for certain reasons. And this doctor suggests that is what it has done.
KELLY: But there are questions of legality. Separate and apart from that, the defense, the primary defense for Planned Parenthood is, yes, they have abortion services. Taxpayer dollars are not supposed to be used for that although they can be used for research on harvested body parts from an aborted fetus. Okay. But they say, you're going to have a lot more abortions if you get rid of the federal funding for Planned Parenthood. Because you'll going to have a lot more women who don't have a lot of dough who cannot afford birth control and will wind up pregnant with unwanted pregnancies.
PERKINS: Look, if it's so necessary, there will be private benefactors that would come in and step in. Americans citizen should not be forced to be a part of a billion-dollar operation which is the single largest abortion provider in the country. Look, I said this is alleged. The evidence suggests this may very well be the case. But based on that, that there could be illegal activity here, Americans should not be forced to be a part of this. And I believe there should be an immediate moratorium on the funding for Planned Parenthood.
KELLY: And one of the thing about it, Tony, let me ask you because one of the things that's shocking about it is, now the American people see the woman with whom they are aligned. They see the person they are paying in part to the extent that the harvesting of the organs is okay. And by the way, we do pay for abortions at Planned Parenthood I understand, if it is in the case of rape or incest. So this is the person with whom they are aligned.
PERKINS: Right. I mean, very calloused in the way that they talk about this. Look, there could be much more behind this. This is why Congress is investigating. It really reminds me back when I was a police officer in the late 80s and early 90s when we're at the (INAUDIBLE) of car fest. And these cars were never found. Because they were taken to these chop shops because the sum of the charts were worth more to these thieves than the cars themselves. And I see this is the same thing with these babies. The value of the human lives of these babies -- the parts are worth more than Planned Parenthood. Taxpayers should not be a part of this. Should be a moratorium immediately on this.
KELLY: Tony, thank you.
PERKINS: Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: Planned Parenthood has an open invitation to come on the program and discuss it.
We are here. I'm willing to hear their side. Well tonight, we're also hearing critics complain about what they call a new low for the folks over at the liberal group. That's being charitable. Liberal? Far left! Media matters. As one of the staffers launches an attack on Anne Romney for writing a book about her battle with m.s. You have got to hear Janice Dean with a must see message tonight.
And why is presidential candidate Martin O'Malley having to apologize for suggesting that all lives matter. Ah! Really? That debate is just ahead.
KELLY: Welcome back to the Kelly File. A new fall out tonight from a town hall meeting featuring 2016 Democratic Candidate, Governor Martin O'Malley. Yes, more than Hillary is running on the Democratic side. He was addressing what he thought was a friendly audience of liberal activists. But man, did they turn on the Former Governor of Maryland when he had the nerve to say this. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. MARTIN O'MALLEY, 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Every life matters and that is why this issue is so important. Black lives matter, white lives matter, all lives matter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Later, that same day, came Governor O'Malley's apology.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
O'MALLEY: I believe what I first said was that black lives matter before the other two phrases. That was a mistake on my part and I meant no disrespect and I did not mean to be insensitive.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Kevin Jackson is the Executive Director of the Blacksphere.net, and Author of the Book, Race Pimping, and Mark Hanna, who was a Campaign Aide for President Obama, and John Kerry's Presidential Campaigns, and is now an adjunct Professor of Media Studies at the New School.
MARK HANNAH, FORMER OBAMA CAMPAIGN AIDE: Hi, Megyn.
KELLY: Really? Really? I get the context in which the original remark was offered but it is to the point now Kevin, where he has to apologize for saying all lives matter?
KEVIN JACKSON, CONSERVATIVE RADIO HOST: Yeah. It is. It is to that point now. It's crazy. And what's interesting, Megyn if you notice when he said white lives matter, that's when he got the most vitriol from the audience. You white people are evil. They booed. The same party that booed god or didn't want god at their convention booed white people, too, so maybe white people are god. This is most idiotic thing I've seen in a long time. The fact of the matter is that the means and narratives are set around black lives matter should be called black lies matter, because they don't want to talk about the real issues around why black lies haven't mattered. It isn't because, it isn't because of America. It is because of the behavior of liberal blacks and the system that has made black people unfortunately put in situations where we are disproportionately criminals. The idea that you can't come over the top of that and say all lives matter, 87 percent of this country's lives don't matter because black lives do?
KELLY: Mark, the things is -- way to get other half to listen to you, right? I mean how white people are going to respond to the booing of the fact their lives should matter.
HANNAH: Yeah. I don't think anybody disagrees with the statement that all lives matter.
KELLY: I think you're wrong about that.
HANNAH: Protesters disagree with that. Let's listen to this in context. What was happening there was a protest erupted about the black lives matter. Obviously there's been a lot of frustration in the black community over news of a new woman that was -- that died in police custody again in Texas.
KELLY: No proof that that was by an intentional action by a police officer whatsoever.
HANNAH: We should reserve judgment.
KELLY: Right. Like we should have in the Michael Brown case in Ferguson which helped give birth to the black lives matter and it was based on a lie.
HANNAH: The fact of the matter is more than -- about 400 people have died at the hands, unarmed people at the hands of police. And most -- a disproportionate number and I'm sure Kevin is outraged by this. A disproportionate number of those are black.
KELLY: But way more white people have been killed at the hands of police officers over the past two years.
HANNAH: If you look at proportions...
JACKSON: That's exactly right.
HANNAH: There are a proportion of more black members of the community.
JACKSON: That's absolutely -- look. That's absolute fallacy and it's what these guys do. They come on all the time. They spew out this nonsense data, because they know that the least common denominator is not going to check it. It's nonsense. White people are killed in disproportionately more high numbers, in percentage to crime than black. And you don't see white people running around white lives matter. To your original point, the very first thing out of your mouth was I don't think people believe that. They booed when they said white lives matter.
HANNAH: I'll tell you the reason that was so tone deaf. Megyn, you reported last week on this major tragedy. Kate Steinle, this woman died in San Francisco. If I was on your show and you said something like, the murder of Kate Steinle should be brought to justice. And I responded, well, every murderer should be brought to justice. Nobody disagrees with that but it would be miserably insensitive for me to say that in that context. It's deflecting. Kevin used this word, big word, fallacy. The fallacy that is called from my fellow nerds out there is a fallacy of illicit transference. It's a non-sequester -- and frankly -- why Martin O'Malley -- why he apologized.
KELLY: Martin O'Malley -- was that an absence of back bone moment? Was that an opportunity for Martin O'Malley to look at the crowd and say that kind of attitude is not going to help the cause.
JACKSON: Absolutely. He missed his moment. He missed his presidential moment. Right there to say, you know what, folks? All lives matter. I don't care what you think. I'm not trying to be president so I can be president of black people. I'm president of everybody. That was his time. And he could have gone on to say if black lives matter so much, why don't they matter to you with abortion? Why don't they matter to you when black people are killing each other in record numbers in disproportionate number in your own community? Why doesn't it matter, the people who call themselves African-Americans don't care about the genocide that's happening in the mother land?
KELLY: That wouldn't exactly have been a barn burner.
HANNAH: You can accuse Martin O'Malley of a lot of things. But everybody who is watching this show who's seen the Wire that the mayor character on the Wire on HBO was based on his character. He has looked out for an untold number of black lives as a mayor of Baltimore.
KELLY: How many times have we heard among the GOP field, that may play with the GOP base but they're going to get killed in a general election with that kind of rhetoric. Guess what, Governor O'Malley. Guess what.
JACKSON: Megyn, it is even better. It is even better, O'Malley presided over the state of Maryland and as Mayor of Baltimore, and I don't know a year that they haven't been in the top ten for murders. And again, those murders...
HANNAH: Bye, Megyn.
KELLY: Well, Donald Trump is getting slammed in the press for questioning John McCain's record as a hero of war. But did he do that, and are his comments being fairly represented? We will fact check the matter with Howie Kurtz and our newest Fox News Contributor, Meghan McCain, next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Does Donald Trump owe you an apology?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. I don't think so. But I think he may owe an apology to the families of those who have sacrificed in conflict.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Donald Trump. What can you say? The New York Businessman and Presidential Candidate started a new political firestorm this weekend when he went to an ugly place in what looks like a personal fight with Senator John McCain. Trump started to raise questions about McCain's war record with this sound bite and the shouting has not stopped since. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A war hero.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's a war hero because he was captured. I like people that weren't captured. I hate to say.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He is a war hero because he was captured ok. And I believe perhaps he is a war hero. Right now he said some very bad things about a lot of people.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Joining me now, Senator McCain's Daughter, Radio Host of America Now and new Fox News Contributor Meghan McCain, along with Howie Kurtz who is Host of Media Buzz right here on FNC. We're going to start with Howie. All right, Howie, so some are now saying Mr. Trump is being unfairly attacked because he did not -- he said first he's not a war hero and then he said three times right after, he is a war hero. He said I like people who aren't captured.
HOWIE KURTZ, MEDIA BUZZ HOST: In New York, we call that a dis. You know what I'm saying? The magic of videotape, you played it. We've all seen it 12 times now. Trump was questioning John McCain's war hero status. A guy who was repeatedly tortured during five and a half years in Vietnam and Trump's default setting Megyn is to rip the media when he talks himself into trouble. The remarkable thing here is even in the midst of this, with pundits saying he's toast, he's history, and he should pack it up. They're still underestimating Donald Trump and his appeal.
KELLY: Because why? They don't like him? Why?
KURTZ: Trump, they don't understand Donald Trump that he plays by his own set of rules. When he plays by this take no prisoners talk, it strikes a nerve because he's going up against the media establishment which nobody likes, against a political establishment which is not too popular. And even against John McCain who is absolutely an American hero, but as a Senator he is not the first or second or third choice of the most conservative part of the Republican base. So there is just this rush to declare Trump to be a side show, illegitimate. Right now he has a double digit lead in the polls. It doesn't excuse what he said but media types are horrified when somebody doesn't play by the rules.
KELLY: How do you get the jacket off of him? I like people who are not captured. How does the U.S. Military get past that comment?
KURTZ: I don't have any doubt that Donald Trump hurt himself with veterans with that kind of comment, and John McCain on a morning television appearance said, he doesn't owe me an apology. He owes the veterans an apology, very smart not making it about him. But at the same time, Trump keeps doing this, he keeps making these incendiary remarks, and yet the people who have no use for the political and media establishment say he's a rich guy and he doesn't take any guff. The details of it don't matter to them all that much but they do matter to the pundits.
KELLY: We'll see as the next poll comes out and whether it's changed at all. Howie, good to see you.
KURTZ: My pleasure.
KELLY: And joining us now, Senator McCain's daughter, Meghan McCain, Host of America Now and a new Fox News Contributor, Meghan, great to see you.
MEGHAN MCCAIN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Thank you so much for having me.
KELLY: He keeps standing by the comments saying, I did say he was a war hero. I'm being misrepresented, your thoughts.
MCCAIN: You know Megyn, my father has been in public office since before I was born. And this is one of the grossest, most disgusting comments I've ever heard which is really saying something. I'm 30 years old. And it is because it's not just an attack on my father. It is an attack on all veterans and an attack on all POW's. POW's like cell mates of my father, like Colonel Bud Day, who was awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor and during his death was the most highly decorated American alive.
KELLY: What did you make of -- I don't know whether he was saying what he really felt, trying to be incendiary. But the comment I just highlighted, I like people who aren't captured.
MCCAIN: I don't know what he was saying. It was a comment from an extremely disconnected millionaire living in New York City. My little brother just returned from Afghanistan three weeks ago. And he got to come home to hearing his father's heroism discussed on television by a man who deferred his time in Vietnam four times. And I think what the worst part about this is it is taking away from real conversations we should be having about the failures of the Obama Administration and it makes Republicans look like we're disorganized, and we're infighting, and on top of everything else, any discussion about any veteran's heroism at all has no place in the national dialogue whatsoever.
KELLY: Would you say that about John Kerry and the swift boat veterans for truth and raised questions about whether he was telling the truth about his experience?
MCCAIN: Any conversation whatsoever. John Kerry made some very nice remarks about my father. They are friends. I would never question John Kerry's heroism or service to this country.
KELLY: You're an interesting person to ask this of. You are not some far right ideologue. You're the daughter of Senator McCain who is the Republican Presidential Nominee back in 2008. So do you think that the media is blowing this up, even greater than they otherwise would because it's GOP on GOP violence, if you will?
MCCAIN: I think the media is -- I don't think the media is blowing this up. I think it was an incredibly disgusting, incendiary comment by Donald Trump. But I do think the media loves Republican on Republican fighting, which Ted Cruz said yesterday. And I do believe like I said before, it is taking away from discussing the failures of the Obama Administration and the short comings of Hillary Clinton, which is why this is really very sad.
KELLY: Who do you like in the election so far?
MCCAIN: Well, you know, I love Lindsey Graham. He is like an uncle to me. I've grown up around him. I'm really coming around to Marco Rubio at the moment.
KELLY: I missed it. Who was the other person?
MCCAIN: Marco Rubio. But there are over 400 days between now and the election cycle.
KELLY: And over 400 candidates on the GOP side so it works out well. Meghan, great to see you, welcome.
MCCAIN: Thank you so much.
KELLY: I would like to know your thoughts. Let me know, Facebook.com/thekellyfile. Well critics are sounding off tonight about what they call a new low for the folks at the far left Media Matters group. As one of their top staffers attacks Ann Romney for the crime of writing a book about her fight with multiple sclerosis, they're so classy. Janice Dean is next. Don't miss this.
KELLY: Critics are sounding off tonight about what they call a new low for the folks at the far left Media Matters group. Which we usually ignore but sometimes they really get irritating, as one of their staffers attacks Ann Romney for the crime of writing a book about her fight with multiple sclerosis. Janice Dean is a Fox News Meteorologist and has M.S. herself, and by the way is the Author of the new book...
JANICE DEAN, SURVIVOR OF MULTIPLE SCLEROSIS: Cheap plug.
KELLY: This is about women who write books including women who have M.S. -- Freddie the Forecaster and the Huge Hurricane which is important to buy as well.
DEAN: We're teaching kids about hurricanes.
KELLY: Maybe Oliver has a problem with you as well.
DEAN: I didn't know who this guy was until he wrote a mean tweet about Ann Romney writing a book about living with M.S. And I will tell you when I was diagnosed ten years ago this October, all I wanted to do was find books with people I recognized living with the illness so I wouldn't feel alone. I had a huge dark cloud around me when I was diagnosed. I thought my life is over, I thought my career was over. I thought who is going to love me, who is going to marry me? I didn't know anything about the illness itself. It still has a stigma attached. And that's why people like people Ann Romney need to write more books for people that are diagnosed with M.S. because we do feel alone when we are diagnosed.
KELLY: It just goes to show you how hateful he and that group are. He writes, has any candidate spouse who didn't become the first lady of the United States ever write so many books. And then he counts it out, Senator McCain, Teresa Hines, and Carry and so on. He seems very irritated that Ann Romney has three books. Of course, the Romney's give millions of dollars to charity. This book has a good purpose.
DEAN: So living with M.S., it doesn't matter what political party you are with or it doesn't matter how much money you make. If you're diagnosed, you're diagnosed. It's incurable. And that's why more people have to come out and say they live with the illness because we need support, we need people. When I was diagnosed all I wanted to do was find people I could talk to. Thank goodness Neil Cavuto, who has been living with M.S. for a decade or more, was down the hallway and I was able to talk to him. So god bless Ann Romney and I can't wait to read her book.
KELLY: You know it's interesting -- the former chief of staff in the Clinton Administration and the head of this progressive think tank, the Center for American Process is the man behind the founder of Media Matters. There's a Clinton connection to this group that's hard to understand. It's hard to understand that somebody who -- love or hate her as a politician, Hillary Clinton would never make a comment like that. And these people, they go out there and fire off these tweets with no respect for women or people who are suffering.
DEAN: But is this a bigger picture, is this like a culture of mean we are into right now? I don't know if it's social media. But more people are out there being mean to each other. We don't need that. Our boss Roger Aisle has a great saying, negative people make positive people sick. And I live by that. These people make us sick.
KELLY: And usually it's best just to ignore them but honestly, it's just so irritating. Let's leave on a happy note. As we go into hurricane season, it's scary for kids. It's tough to explain what happens. Check it out. It's been endorsed by lots of important weather officials and Megyn Kelly as well.
DEAN: Can we talk about this after the break? We're out of time, bye.
DEAN: Ok so before the break we were talking about this bracelet. A lot of us women here at the Fox News Channel have this bracelet because we think when we're into a dilemma, "What Would Megyn Kelly Do?" And Dana Perino made these. And all of us women have them.
KELLY: She would wrap you and thank you.
DEAN: We love you!
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