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The Five

San Francisco slaying ignites debate on sanctuary cities

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," July 7, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. Its five o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

A five-time deportee and seven-time convicted felon is about to be arraigned in San Francisco on a murder charge. After the city let him walk free in March, despite a request from the feds to keep him detained. Illegal immigrant Francisco Sanchez confessed to killing 32-year-old Kathryn Steinle on Wednesday while she was walking on a pier with her father. Because San Francisco is a sanctuary city, it wouldn't let immigration and customs enforcement know that it was releasing Sanchez this spring, so they could keep him in custody. Sheriff Ross Mirkarimi defends his city's controversial policy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF ROSS MIRKARIMI, SAN FRANCISCO COUNTY: I firmly believe it makes us safer. We're a world-renowned city with a large immigrant population. And of that population is a population that is also here undocumented for a law enforcement perspective. We want to build trust with that population and our sanctuary city and other attendant laws have allowed to us do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: All right. So a lot of controversy, we'll take it back to the bay area. Greg, get some of your thoughts on this.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Well, I just wonder, can we create sanctuary cities for other things that are considered illegal, if you're an exhibitionist, or maybe a drunk driver or a looter? Why one infraction is somehow held with higher value than the other because sanctuary is the ultimate left-wing symbol of anti-Americanism which was given birth on campus. The belief is what right do we have as a country to protect ourselves from an external criminality, if our own country itself is deemed as hopelessly, corrupt. We have no right to tell anybody that they can't come here because we came here and we destroyed this country. This is, in my belief, this is the Willie Horton moment. All democrat candidates right now, all four of them, support sanctuary cities, which is like Dukakis supporting furloughs. So this is kind of a Willie Horton issue. And the idea that this idea creates deadly consequences and you support that idea, then just by connection, you support such deadly consequences. That is the Willie Horton strategy.

GUILFOYLE: All right, Bolling. So clearly, this is something that needs to be addressed and I see the problem here with them not obeying and following the law. And why are the safe havens for criminal activity, essentially what is it matters.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Right. They're breaking federal law. They're harboring people who have broken the law. That in and of itself should.

GUILFOYLE: Fugitives.

BOLLING: They're fugitives. That should pull the funding. In any state or federal funding that was going to these cities, you should pull them. Why wouldn't you? Greg points some, what about pedophiles? What about, I don't know insider traders that have sanctuary areas for them as well. They're breaking the law. They break the law. They break the law at higher rates. When they're deported, they come back. By the way, if this guy, Sanchez, was deported five times, is that five deportations? I'm guessing Obama administration counted that as five deportations, not one since its one person.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: And then he comes back and he commits crime. O'Reilly last night said something very important. You come back a second time, you go to jail. That would be great, except it blows the idea of sanctuary city out of the water. Sanctuary cities, you can get driver's license as illegals, there are rights that you have as illegals, its in-state tuition, in-city tuitions, its incredible here. What are we doing here? Why even have laws?

GUILFOYLE: All right, that's the problem. So let's take a little bit of a listen to The Factor, from last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL O'REILLY, THE O'REILLY FACTOR SHOW HOST: The fact that a felon could be deported five times and still be walking around San Francisco should shame congress. Shame it. Where is the law that says, if you are deported one time and come back, you serve five years in prison. Where is that law? Congress should pass it and if President Obama doesn't sign it, everything will be on the table. It will be on him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: OK, Dana, good idea?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, I don't know if such a law could pass. I do know that the current law actually was not followed. So you actually have a breakdown between the federal government and the mayors of many cities. So if I were President Obama, the one thing he can do is the power to convene. And I'd call a national conference of mayors and get the leadership in there tomorrow and say, all right, it's not OK for you to tell the federal government that you're not going to alert them, when you have a convicted felon who was deported five times. It's not all right for you to say that he's allowed to stay. The other thing is that we have a big breakdown in terms of the number of ICE Agents in the country. For immigration and customs enforcement there are like 15,000 ICE Agents compared to how many local law enforcement there are all across the country. So we have to decide, do we need more ICE Agents or do we have the right number of ICE Agents, we just don't have cooperation from local authorities. That local governance is difficult and I don't think that the man that we showed from San Francisco, I don't think that he argues his case very well, I don't think it's persuasive. However, there are some cities, like for example El Paso. El Paso is the safest big city in the United States for several years running. It has 81 percent Hispanic population, 26 percent are immigrants, both legal and illegal. It's been named the number one state or one of the safest cities in America for a long time. Something is going right in El Paso that is not going right in other cities. And perhaps, that's where the breakdown is. I don't know if new laws are going to actually matter if the current laws we have aren't even being followed.

GUILFOYLE: Well, that's the question now. Will a new law or new case law solve the issue? Or are we just going to add another law that's going to be flagrantly disregarded and they won't follow it just like they've been ignoring the federal law on the books?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: Well, first of all, you know, Greg, this is not about some left-wing college conspiracy.

GUTFELD: What do think sanctuary? I give sanctuary where it came from.

WILLIAMS: No, the sanctuary from -- you know, it came from churches.

GUTFELD: No, it came.

WILLIAMS: From churches, yes. Churches set up sanctuaries when all of those people who are fleeing that violence in El Salvador.

GUTFELD: And what glommed on to that?

GUILFOYLE: I think.

GUTFELD: Glommed on to that.

WILLIAMS: No, no. I'm just telling you.

GUTFELD: You know that, if you know that.

WILLIAMS: OK.

GUTFELD: From South America -- I'm sorry, I'll let you finish. But you know from South America, a lot of the left-wing ideology glommed on to the religious -- pope.

WILLIAMS: OK. I'm just saying -- I'm just telling you.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: The churches were the ones who said, you know what, we will provide sanctuaries for people fleeing this kind of violence and abuse.

GUILFOYLE: But we're talking about criminals.

WILLIAMS: Right.

GUILFOYLE: And the violence felons.

WILLIAMS: So let me continue.

GUILFOYLE: That is completely.

WILLIAMS: What you heard.

GUILFOYLE: Dissimilar.

WILLIAMS: No, it's not.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, it is.

WILLIAMS: What you have -- what you heard from Mayor Ed Lee in San Francisco, you can hear from mayors in 200 cities around this country, including our biggest and including some run by republicans.

GUTFELD: And they're wrong.

WILLIAMS: Who say they need to have trust from that immigrant community in terms of reporting crimes and.

BOLLING: Non-immigrant community.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

BOLLING: Illegal immigrant community.

WILLIAMS: And believe me, illegals immigrants are part of the immigrant community.

BOLLING: But that's specifically is that you have to distinguish illegal immigrant from the immigrant community.

WILLIAMS: I'm just -- no, not.

BOLLING: It's an important issue.

WILLIAMS: I'm just telling you, if your cousin is illegal and your cousin commits a crime, you want to feel that you can go to the police. You can talk to the police without having to get into a conversation about deportation.

BOLLING: Why?

GUTFELD: But that's an issue with whether you're a citizen or not and your cousin commits a crime.

GUILFOYLE: I know.

WILLIAMS: Correct.

GUTFELD: Everybody faces that problem -- Dana and her cousin.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Right. And that's why -- what you've got is a situation where a number of mayors and even governors have said, we to think that there should be a prioritization -- this is what the Obama administration has said, we should prioritize people who are criminals, who are felons. Get them out. We shouldn't be engaged in this widespread deportation.

PERINO: But that's what O'Reilly is saying.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: That's what O'Reilly is saying.

WILLIAMS: That O'Reilly thing -- that's fine.

GUTFELD: But they.

WILLIAMS: But you know what?

PERINO: What are we arguing, then?

WILLIAMS: Because when Josh Earnest, the White House spokesman came out today and said, you know what, the republicans have been blocking comprehensive immigration reform -- oh, he's blaming the republicans what happened in San Francisco.

GUILFOYLE: All right, let's take a listen to that and we get some comments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: As a part of the executive actions that the president announced back in November of last year, one of the chief goals that we are seeking to accomplish was ensuring that we were focusing our law enforcement efforts on those individuals who pose a genuine threat to public safety and to national security. These efforts would be significantly augmented, had republicans not blocked common sense immigration reform.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: All right, let's.

PERINO: That doesn't make sense to me.

GUILFOYLE: No, it doesn't.

PERINO: Because we just established that the law that's on the books was not obeyed and that there's a breakdown in cooperation between local law enforcement and authorities and the federal government and the law that exists today. So whether there was going to be comprehensive immigration or not, that actual law exists, that law was not followed. That's where the breakdown is. I mean, you could -- I don't think that his argument makes sense. The other part on this in terms of the broken system, so you have three parts of the immigration problem, you have the border security issue, you have the fact that the system in order to become a legal citizen in this country is so difficult and fraught with problems that you can't get there and then you have people who are here illegally. And President Obama, instead of deciding -- once he decided he couldn't do them all at once, instead of going with the first one, border security, he jumped ahead and basically ate dessert before his vegetables. So now everybody is focused on the dessert and you're not going to be -- nobody is going to want to eat the vegetables.

GUTFELD: That's a good metaphor.

PERINO: Thank you.

GUILFOYLE: I know. All right.

PERINO: You're hungry -- especially if you're hungry.

GUILFOYLE: We going to get Juan to response.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think Dana is wrong. I mean obviously, if you look at the comprehensive immigration reform bipartisan in the senate, it had a ton of money in there for border security. You say Obama is eating dessert first. Obama in fact has put more money into border security. So did President Bush, when president bush was there. He tried to get immigration reform and was blocked. We have a ton of money, we have more drones and electronics and fences built. And yet you see from the republicans.

PERINO: OK, then why it's they.

WILLIAMS: Oh, it's the law. It's the law.

PERINO: Juan, if that -- if everything you said is true.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

PERINO: Then why are they complaining that they need more?

WILLIAMS: Because that's been the republican fallback for refusing to do anything, Dana.

PERINO: Because they've already had -- they've already increase everything, why do they need more?

WILLIAMS: They.

PERINO: That argument doesn't actually make sense.

WILLIAMS: OK.

GUTFELD: The other thing too is where is the left on this issue? Where are the activists that usually take one police incident and exaggerate it as a trend, that this is a problem across the whole country? But clearly, there are more incidents of crime by illegal immigrants than there are police incidents. Yet, I'm sure that they will portray this as an aberration, as is happening now, which is that, this is something that's just weird but it's not.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

GUTFELD: There are crimes happening across the country, and we are letting them happen because we're not enforcing the laws.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, but I think.

GUTFELD: That's a fact.

GUILFOYLE: But it is.

WILLIAMS: The argument is really about whether or not you have more crime coming out of this community, than you have any other community. Could this have been a derelict.

GUILFOYLE: But you heard what he said.

WILLIAMS: And this guy was a derelict.

GUILFOYLE: He said he specifically went back to San Francisco because he knew it was a sanctuary city.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: And he wouldn't get deported.

WILLIAMS: Correct.

GUILFOYLE: And it's true. I was a prosecutor in that city. And let me tell you something.

WILLIAMS: That's your point.

GUILFOYLE: It was like the prosecutors should be taken away in handcuffs for some felony crime if you ask an individual in court, there was a repeat offender recidivist and you get, please sir, give your true and correct name to the court. You have to fingerprint, do everything to figure it out because you have 15 different aliases trying to avoid the law. They're in the country illegally. Breaking a law, one law to begin with.

PERINO: Can I ask you something?

GUILFOYLE: And they commit a second crime. That's the issue.

PERINO: Can I ask you something about that because I was actually curious about this. One of the things that the local law enforcement will say to the federal government is, instead of me just calling you and saying to federal authorities we're about to let this guy go, you asked us for 48- hours' notice. What the local law enforcement wants is for the federal government to have to go and get a warrant for each of these people. Why in the world are they arguing for that? How time consuming it would it be for the federal government with 15,000 ICE Agents to try to get a warrant for all of these people?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, but they're playing games. That's the problem. It's totally inefficient. It's flagrant disregard for the federal books like and laws that exist. They're actually acting directly against it saying, we're not going to do it. They are obstructing justice in my opinion because the law is there to be obeyed.

WILLIAMS: But wait a second, can we just say that the federal government.

GUILFOYLE: No. And this administration is in part and parcel to it. They have been.

WILLIAMS: Yes. That's what I was going to say.

GUILFOYLE: They have been an aider (ph) and abettor because they've been going ahead and saying, go ahead and do, we're not going to follow this.

WILLIAMS: Well, I'm saying the federal government is saying, Obama administration, we don't believe in breaking apart American families even if there -- some of them are here illegally, that's not in keeping with our values. And they said they wanted to prioritize deportation of people who have committed heinous crimes.

BOLLING: But.

WILLIAMS: That's why -- and that's why people don't cooperate with ICE.

BOLLING: No, no, but taking one -- forget ICE. Take it one step further. So when they get caught doing a crime, murder, rape.

WILLIAMS: That's different.

BOLLING: No, no, and then we deport them or whatever you want to call them, return them.

WILLIAMS: Or we put them in jail.

BOLLING: And then they go, you know what, I need a sanctuary city because ICE has that record now.

WILLIAMS: Then they should get a warrant.

BOLLING: No, no.

WILLIAMS: Like Dana was talking about. She should be oh, let us know. Hey, give us a signal.

BOLLING: Do you understand what they're saying? Even if you have -- you have to know about the person being back. They could decide, you know what, forget San Francisco, that's where I got picked up last time. I'm going to New York.

WILLIAMS: Let me tell you, he got.

BOLLING: Another sanctuary.

WILLIAMS: It was ICE that turned him over to the San Francisco police.

BOLLING: I know that. And then San Francisco police let him go without telling ICE back.

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: Because ICE didn't have a warrant. They said, we have a.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: They shouldn't have to have a warrant.

WILLIAMS: We just want to detain the guy.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Exactly. There we go. Oh, good. We made our point.

GUILFOYLE: And we solved something, not 100 percent sure, but.

All right, ahead. While the mainstream media plays up the crowd gathering around presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, Greg is going to tell you what they aren't telling you about Hillary Clinton's challenger, an admitted socialist.

GUTFELD: Uh, oh.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: Oh.

GUTFELD: Argh (ph).

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: The problem with Donald Trump he's a businessman who decided to be a politician. Business teaches you to speak your mind. Politics tell you to do the opposite. In business you sell a product, in politics you sell yourself. Which is why Bernie Sanders is a good politician, it's all he does. He's been running for office since 1972. Affording him the luxury of selling a failed ideology that never requires purchase. Socialism, a harmless thing until it finds real power then it's deadly. For if he could, Bernie would gladly turn us into Greece or worse, Venezuela where toilet paper rolls are emptier than Athens ATMs. This dope once adored the Sandinistas, the toxic bunch of commies. Sanders is so nutty, most kids should be allergic to him.

So why does the media overlook this? The press loves the guy because they assume his bad ideas may never see the light of day, but one can dream. He wants to raise the tax rate for top earners to more than 50 percent, the highest in 30 years after the worst recovery in history. His goal is not to get America back on its feet, but to put it under for good. He wants free tuition for colleges. A great idea if you think money grows on bongs. He said he'd hire Paul Krugman for his Cabinet, which is like hiring Jeffrey Dahmer as your chef. He applauded Greece's no vote, which is like applauding two lovers as they jump off a tall building, which really is socialism a leap that always ends badly. Inevitably, you just run out of cash, just like they run out of distance between roof and sidewalk.

PERINO: Splat.

GUTFELD: Yeah, splat it is. Socialism, that's an interesting point, actually, Dana.

PERINO: Oh, actually.

GUTFELD: In America, socialism is treated as a novelty. It's like Bernie Sanders is a socialist cheetah (ph) pet. It's kind of cute because you know it's never going to go anywhere. But everywhere else, around the world, socialism ends in disaster. Whether it is Greece, what's happening in Puerto Rico, what is going to happen in Spain.

PERINO: Venezuela.

GUTFELD: Venezuela. Why do we have such -- why do we romance what is so destructive?

PERINO: That is actually a good question.

GUTFELD: Thank you. I'll go now.

PERINO: Actually, they can vote for the -- one of the things here has said, has Sanders moved his party left? No. The party is left. And it actually wasn't Sanders. President Obama has transformed the Democratic Party. It is now so far left, that Hillary Clinton has having to try to get to his left, in order to protect the base.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: I do think that Hillary Clinton's team is a little bit rattled about the crowds that Bernie Sanders can get. And want to know what's nice about him? He's authentic. He's not faking it. He does believe what he's saying. I disagree with it, but he does a persuasive job of the people that he's talking to of telling them that basically, you're going to get all of these things, we're going to be able to pay for them, it's not a problem. I actually think that he could be more of a threat in places than they originally anticipated.

GUTFELD: Eric, the advantage for Sanders is that he can't put his foot in his mouth because his entire ideology is absurd. Like its all nuts.

BOLLING: Yeah. Socialist -- Winston Churchill, socialism is a way to spread the misery around evenly?

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

BOLLING: Is that what he said? All right, so that the issue here is Bernie further left than Hillary Clinton. Is Bernie pulling Hillary Clinton left?

PERINO: Yes.

BOLLING: FiveThirthyEight Nate Silvers group did a study. They looked at her -- at Hillary Clinton's voting records and her public statements. They have her as liberal as Bernie Sanders. So this whole idea that Bernie Sanders is further left than Hillary and he's pulling her to the left is ridiculous. She was more liberal than 85 percent of the people in the Senate when she was in the Senate. She was as liberal as Elizabeth Warren and Barack Obama on the thing -- on the public comments as well. So I don't think that's an issue. You want a socialist, you want a leftist. You got one in the office right now, you get four or eight more years if you like Hillary Clinton. Socialism doesn't work. I don't know why we're romancing it. I'm not sure we are romancing it. He's had a couple of big speeches. Again, I think he has absolutely no shot at beating Hillary Clinton.

GUILFOYLE: But nevertheless, look what he stands for. It's a little bit frightening, OK? Like you can't even block out the fear with an eye mask at night, is this guy is getting a bunch of people to show up, Juan? That seems to be buying in they're like yeah, tell me some more. And this is a guy who visited Nicaragua and supported the Sandinistas. This is the guy that wants to raise the taxes like 50 percent...

GUTFELD: Actually.

GUILFOYLE: This is unbelievable.

GUTFELD: That's what he is.

GUILFOYLE: And free call, free this, free that. How are we going to pay for all this? He's like Obamacare on steroids, all the stuff he wants to do.

GUTFELD: Well, actually, in an interview with CNBC's John Harwood in May, he said he could back a 90 percent.

BOLLING: 90 percent, right.

GUTFELD: Top marginal tax.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Right. We start off at 50.

BOLLING: I think when he was asked, he couldn't say no to that.

GUTFELD: Yeah, me too.

BOLLING: That's probably is like by toning it down a little bit. But it could be obviously.

GUILFOYLE: And he wants to break up all the banks. J.P. Morgan, Bank of America.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: As more to the right of him is because her barely close Wall Street.

GUILFOYLE: And he wants Paul Krugman for his cabinet. I mean.

GUTFELD: I would put him in a cabinet. Juan, isn't just occupy the Wall Street in a single kind of being?

GUILFOYLE: In a single payer system?

WILLIAMS: Yeah, which I.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: You know, so I -- this is why I watch The Five.

GUTFELD: Why?

WILLIAMS: Because I learn so much from listening to the four of you. I -- first of all.

GUILFOYLE: I know.

WILLIAMS: You guys used to tell me, oh, Bernie Sanders, Bernie Sanders. Let's play him up because he's a challenger to Hillary Clinton. Now he's getting these big crowds, you're saying, wait a minute. He's a socialist. He's a whacko.

GUTFELD: I've called him whacko for years.

WILLIAMS: And also.

GUILFOYLE: When did we say this?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: The left is building a (inaudible).

WILLIAMS: Yeah, I know, you guys.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: You guys wanted him to build.

GUILFOYLE: No, we.

WILLIAMS: We want to challenge Hillary.

GUILFOYLE: Where was that memo? I don't think so, Juan.

BOLLING: That was you -- Special Report.

WILLIAMS: Oh, OK.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: But the thing I would say.

GUILFOYLE: That was that other panel.

WILLIAMS: That was other show.

GUILFOYLE: Sophisticated. So you do.

WILLIAMS: OK. But I think I would say about Bernie Sanders is, you know what? Bernie Sanders is drawing people who are excited to see someone who was you said is authentic and who speaks about things like, guess what? He says Obama is too moderate, middle of the road.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: How can people buy into socialism when the nails in the coffin are all over the world?

WILLIAMS: It's not socialism when people are worried about making ends meet in this country. And people are saying, we want somebody who will speak out against the banks, and we want somebody who will say, you know what, Obamacare is not sufficient because it's not single payer.

GUTFELD: That is socialism, my friend.

WILLIAMS: Well, I'm just telling you, people in this country.

GUILFOYLE: Applauding Greece.

GUTFELD: Move to Greece.

GUILFOYLE: I know.

WILLIAMS: Would you say that about social security? Would you say that about Medicare?

GUTFELD: I would give up my social security.

WILLIAMS: I see -- Ok. So you would say anti-socialism. Well, guess what? Then we have socialism in this country.

GUTFELD: I know. It's a shame.

WILLIAMS: OK.

GUTFELD: It's a shame.

WILLIAMS: So do you think this is like Howard Dean? Do you think this is like Ralph Nader?

GUTFELD: I think he's worse than Howard Dean, which is hard to be.

PERINO: Remember when -- Howard Dean won in Iowa.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: Howard Dean Minus the.

PERINO: Remember, I mean, it's not -- that's why I'm saying it's not out of the realm of possibilities. I'm not saying he's going to become president but Bernie Sanders could win a couple of states.

WILLIAMS: I think so. But you can't get to the Hispanic and the black community and sell Bernie Sanders. Not happening.

PERINO: Not even you?

GUILFOYLE: Think. Pause.

WILLIAMS: I saw him speak the other day. He spoke right before me in Vegas, so as Hispanic crowd.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Second amendment because he's -- he can lie because Vermont Hunters.

BOLLING: Right. He's a quirky candidate. The thing is if he, you know, look, he's not a great polished candidate.

WILLIAMS: No.

BOLLING: He's been around a long time. If you had a young, articulate, hotshot --

PERINO: Actually.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: And better.

PERINO: That's true.

BOLLING: Bernie Sanders.

GUTFELD: President Obama.

BOLLING: Right.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: He would likely give Hillary a run for her money.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

BOLLING: And even win it on the democratic side.

GUTFELD: We had a guy like that in San Francisco.

(CROSSTALK) GUILFOYLE: When he ran for mayor. People thought he was groovy.

GUTFELD: Interesting. Well, on that note, a college quarterback gets thrown off his team after throwing a punch at a woman. His lawyer says he was provoked. The tape ahead in The Fastest 7, don't go.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: The fastest seven minute on television. Three bodacious stories, seven brisk minutes, one balanced host. The first off.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: Florida State freshman quarterback De'Andre Johnson has been kicked off the football team. He was about to lead into collegiate play after he got into an altercation in a bar in Tallahassee. Here's that fight caught on the bar's surveillance camera. We warn you, the video is very disturbing. So here it goes, roll the video, guys. He's in the bar. He has in far, De'Andre Johnson coming up. He bumps into the girl, unnamed blond. They have words. She grabs him, he grabs her. She takes a swing at him with her left hand, kind of glances off him and.

PERINO: God.

BOLLING: He nails her. He opened up a gash on the top of her nose as well. Amazingly, Johnson's attorney, Jose Baez who also represented Casey Anthony, attempted to defend his client's actions. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSE BAEZ, DEANDRE JOHNSON'S ATTORNEY: It wasn't until she struck him twice before he reacted.

The question we have to ask ourselves is, do we want to teach our young adults that when they make a mistake that's it? Your life is over? Or do we want to teach them that, if you make a mistake and you learn from it, that perhaps you might be given a second chance?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: We know Jose Baez very well here. Kimberly, you and I both know him very well. I cannot believe he's taking this case. Honestly, what is he thinking?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I don't know. I mean, everybody's got a right to a defense. But he's a private attorney. So obviously, this guy -- somebody's putting money forward for him to take case.

But this is really offensive. It's appalling. I wouldn't be surprised, I'm just saying, having investigated so many of these cases, there hasn't been acts of violence or domestic violence in this guy's background. Because that was -- it was so appalling. It's so disturbing to see that video and the way that he punches her with, like, the force and the severity and causing that injury. It's awful.

BOLLING: This kid's a 19-year-old quarterback who could have started for Florida State. He had a life in front of him. He threw it away with one swing.

WILLIAMS: I don't think he threw it away. And I think that's where the attorney's wrong. I mean, he should be thrown off this team.

And by the way, the attorney, I'm surprised you guys didn't mention, he then says, "Oh, this is about race," that she had used some racial slur and that's what caused him to punch her. What a bunch of -- I don't care what he says. I don't care at all! He was wrong!

BOLLING: Dana, one of the things about -- he's a recruit freshman. You walk around -- colleges beg you to come to their school. You get to campus, you're the big man on campus. You can do no wrong. These kids think they're above the law.

PERINO: That's why I would have absolutely zero tolerance for it. And when he says that he's -- when the lawyer says, do we want to teach our young kids that this will ruin their lives? Like not playing football is not going to ruin your life. OK, like you -- but you're going to have to face the consequences for that. Absolutely zero tolerance for it. I don't care what she said, either.

BOLLING: Everywhere there's a surveillance camera. Know what you're doing.

GUTFELD: That's the great -- people get upset about privacy. But this surveillance solves a lot of problems. We know what happened.

I think this started before he got there. It looked like he touched her as he was behind her and also touched another woman. And they reacted. So this whole idea that he was reacting in self-defense, he initiated this.

But to go back to my initial conclusion, people are just gross. I don't like going to bars. Stay at home at drink.

BOLLING: You know what's worse? Not the worst thing but another bad thing about that? There was a guy sitting right next to that while that was playing.

PERINO: Did nothing.

BOLLING: Just stood there and watched that whole thing.

GUTFELD: Yes. He didn't want to lose his spot at the bar.

BOLLING: Didn't lift a finger.

All right. Bing -- Bill Cosby back in hot water as the A.P. discovered court documents from a 2005 lawsuit that showed Cosby admitting to using Quaaludes to drug girls for sex.

Quote, the lawyer asks Cosby, "When you got the Quaaludes, was it in your mind that you were going to use these Quaaludes for young women that you wanted to have sex with?"

Bill Cosby answers, "Yes."

Now here's Gloria Allred, who represents 17 of Cosby's accusers now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GLORIA ALLRED, REPRESENTS COSBY ACCUSERS: Mr. Cosby's been attempting to avoid and evade answering directly this question. And now his answer is out. His answer under oath is out. And so he's not able to change the subject, dance around it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: What do you say, Juan?

WILLIAMS: Look, I know Bill Cosby. I'm just so saddened by this, because I don't think there's an argument now. I think it's over, right? I mean, he has admitted to it.

And the thing about it is, he -- his lawyers went to the judge and said, "Don't open this deposition because," guess what, Eric? He's a private citizen. The judge said that's laughable. This is a guy that was on "The Cosby Show" and "I Spy" and all that. Of course he's not.

There is reason to open it. And you open it and you find out that he was lying. So it's so disappointing, because he had the moral high ground. He was speaking to important issues about breakdown and bad behavior in the black community. And he has now just thrown it away.

BOLLING: K.G., at one point I read somewhere where he's saying he was just admitting to it to get it over with.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I mean, perhaps, whatever. But it doesn't matter. The admission is on there; it's on the record. All these women are bringing cases. Defamation lawsuits, because civilly they can bring those. They're still within the statutes. Even recently, he was denying or calling people liars through his lawyers or whatnot.

The criminal cases, those are a wash, because the statute of limitations has run. You've got 39 total women.

BOLLING: They could get some money, though, right?

GUILFOYLE: Yes. But I'm saying criminal cases, that's done. So civilly, yes, they can recover. Understand. It's like 39 women. You have incidents in six different states. A lot of them in California. So this is a big problem.

BOLLING: Yes. Greg.

GUTFELD: I mean, it's like America's dad is a serial rapist. I mean, that's a pretty -- it's like finding out you're in ISIS.

But I don't understand why he keeps -- I guess -- 39 women? I mean, what's his name? Was it Darren Sharper, ex-football player? He went to prison for nine years, I think, for four rapes, right? Am I right? Do you know who I'm talking about? The guy that was...

WILLIAMS: Yes. I don't know how many years.

GUTFELD: But I think he went to prison for nine years. So Cosby does not go to jail?

GUILFOYLE: Well, these are -- 39 women are saying that he defamed them, because he's admitted that he, in fact, used narcotics to be able to have sex. However, two of the women have even said that they had consensual sex. So I'm not saying that 39 women he committed acts of rape. I think each case needs to be individually investigated.

Do you know how many people are going to say, "Oh, I knew him, too," like get in on the bandwagon. You don't know. It doesn't matter. Doesn't excuse the behavior that he has already admitted to. And some of these girls were underage. It's very troubling for everyone involved.

BOLLING: All right. Let's do this one. Remember this classic film?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DUSTIN HOFFMAN, ACTOR: For God's sake, Mrs. Robinson, here we are. You got me into your house. You give me a drink. You put on music. Now you start opening up your personal life to me and tell me your husband won't be home for hours?

ANNE BANCROFT, ACTRESS: So?

HOFFMAN: Mrs. Robinson, you're trying to seduce me.

Aren't you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: "The Graduate's" Dustin Hoffman, a legendary actor, thinks TV may take over for the big screen films like this? He said, quote, "I think right now television is the best that it's ever been. And I think it's the worst it's been -- that film has ever been. In the 50 years I've been doing it, it's the worst."

Now Dana, I think I agree with him.

PERINO: I agree. I do. And I didn't watch -- I didn't get a chance to watch a lot of TV between, like, 2000 and 2008. But at the end of that -- and then I started...

GUILFOYLE: You had a job?

PERINO: I had a job. I had to, like, watch other things. But movies, I typically didn't ever go back and want to watch them. But with all of these series that we talk about a lot, I like a lot of them. "Justified" was one of my best. I love "Veep" right now; I think it's fantastic. I liked the first two of "House of Cards"; didn't really like the third season. But I agree with him. I think there's some great television out there right now. And some crap, too.

GUTFELD: Watch your mouth!

GUILFOYLE: Thank gosh we're on delay.

BOLLING: A lot of the films now are sequels. Third, the fourth, the fifth. Or rip-offs -- rip-offs of comic books.

BOLLING: Yes. They lack originality.

I think the -- two points here. Dustin Hoffman is working from the luxury that no one remembers the awful movies from his era. We only remember the classics. But in 1967, there was "The Deadly Bees." Terrible movie. No one remembers "Catalina Caper." That was from 1967. Or "Operation Kid Brother." Those were terrible movies from 1967. Nobody remembers them.

I think the brain drain is not coming from television. It's coming from the video game industry. I think all the young, bright people are going into that arena, and that's the new motion picture industry.

But right now, think about -- there have been some amazing films. "The LEGO Movie" is brilliant. The new "Mad Max" movie is amazing.

PERINO: "Frozen."

GUTFELD: "Frozen"? I haven't seen that.

BOLLING: Let's -- your side of the table.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, so I love television because, you know, unless it's like a premiere or screening I don't really go to the movies.

GUTFELD: Oh, oh, oh.

GUILFOYLE: That was an easy dig for you. But I like pay-per-view. So if there's something that I've heard is really good, then I'll watch that. But what I'm waiting for is Jack Bauer to come back. I need a little Jack Bauer in my...

WILLIAMS: You know, it's funny. I don't watch that much TV. I watch the news; I watch sports.

PERINO: FOX News!

WILLIAMS: But I've got to tell you, when I watch movies these days, I'm so disappointed. For the most part, it's like they want to blow stuff up, even more blow stuff up and then blow it up one more time or kill somebody. I just don't think much of it.

BOLLING: I'm a big fan. I like the whole experience.

WILLIAMS: Yes?

GUTFELD: But the experience is the problem. See, I don't like -- I don't like the theater. I hate going to the movies.

PERINO: If you love TV...

GUILFOYLE: Who loves standing in line for 100 hours instead of, like, Fandango or whatever.

WILLIAMS: What about popcorn and Coke?

BOLLING: It's a lot more. Lot more now.

GUTFELD: Yes. Paying 50 bucks?

GUILFOYLE: Cute little grandfather here. You are.

BOLLING: Next, the emerging ethical issue of choosing the sex of your child. A report on Kim Kardashian's pregnancy fueling the debate over designer babies. Dana has the details next.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, babies.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: That's Greg. All right. Kim Kardashian and Kanye West expecting another child in December, a boy. They already have a little girl. U.S. Weekly reports the couple only had male embryos implanted in order to have a son. Kardashian denies that claim.

However, as science improves, are people paying big bucks to choose the sex of their kids, raising huge ethical questions about engineering our future?

Now, I think this is the big moral issue of our time. And we have less than three minutes to discuss it. So Greg, take it away.

GUTFELD: Why me? You know what? I think we should go farther than this. I want babies with built-in accessories. Like I would like to have a child with a cup holder I think would be neat.

But this is an interesting phenomenon. It's only news to us when it's linked to the Kardashians. We've only done this story...

PERINO: I've been pitching this for, like, two years.

GUTFELD: Why do you have -- why does your kid have to have a gender? I mean, why would we lock them in a prison of identity? That seems so heteronormative. I mean, why isn't it boy to girl? Why isn't he just an earthling? Like aren't we all earthlings like a tree or a potato? A child is just like a potato.

PERINO: A child is just like a potato? That will be in Barclay's favorite quotations.

GUTFELD: They both have eyes. They both have eyes.

PERINO: Let me go to somebody more serious on this subject, Eric Bolling.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, boy.

PERINO: OK. The sex selection boy or girl in some ways I'm like, OK, I'm not for it, but I can kind of get it. But when you get into this other thing. It started as trying to prevent genetic defects. And now it's going beyond that to trying to engineer what we think a perfect child should look like for you. Like a designer child.

BOLLING: I'm against it, as well. I'm all for, you know, whatever happens how it comes -- that's what you get.

GUILFOYLE: God's will.

BOLLING: Yes, God's will. But I do -- I do think that when you prevent disease and birth defects, I think that's an important scientific discovery that we need to embrace and exploit.

To bring to it whether I want a blond-haired, blue-eyed little girl or not, I guess it's successive. I mean, do I have to weigh in? What do you think?

PERINO: You don't. I think it's a big -- I think it's a big moral issue and one that, like, bioethicists like Dr. Charles Krauthammer could weigh in on. And has...

BOLLING: Cop-out.

PERINO: Well, I do -- I would like to talk to him. I would ask him, but I'll ask Juan instead.

GUILFOYLE: OK.

WILLIAMS: Well, I think the first thing that struck me is this is not news to people who live in places like China, where they, you know, oftentimes prefer to have male children.

GUTFELD: They've aborted millions of girls.

WILLIAMS: Right. So I think there's a horrific side to this. I think it's really a science horror movie.

But the second thing to say is that, according to the statistics that we got today from the brain room, I guess, indicates that some of the people who are doing this work say, "You know what? It's mostly Americans that come to us. Eighty-five percent Americans." I'm thinking, why would Americans? And then they say it's rich people. Eric is going like this, you know, making that sign.

BOLLING: That's the reason.

WILLIAMS: Also the rich in America now want genetically-modified babies. And they can use...

GUILFOYLE: Well, they're not modifying them.

PERINO: They don't want genetically-modified foods, because that would be terrible; but they want genetically-modified babies.

GUILFOYLE: You're not modifying it. So say, for example, you go and you fertilize eggs, and they go. You can go spin it in the centrifuge. New Jersey does this for -- as a matter of fact. And then they can say, "OK. You have a girl or you have a boy." And then you implant -- you can choose those embryos and say, "Well, you know what? We have five boys. We would like a little sugar. We're going to have a little girl." So that's what they're doing.

And yes, it started out with science with good intentions, OK, about birth defects and genetic abnormalities and things of that nature. But the science is there. So this is the progression where people with money are going to be able to do it. So that's what's happening.

PERINO: I should have gone to her first.

GUILFOYLE: Well, and if you want a boy, all you have to do is get in the sheets together before you ovulate, and you'll have a boy.

WILLIAMS: Wow. Wow.

GUTFELD: Whoa.

GUILFOYLE: I just saved you thousands of dollars.

PERINO: Is that true?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, yes. I knew I was having a boy. Like there you go. There you go, I'm having a boy.

PERINO: Buy some baby-blue clothes. OK.

BOLLING: Megan (ph) she stood on her head afterwards...

GUILFOYLE: OK.

BOLLING: That's the way you get a boy. Swear to God.

WILLIAMS: You know what that qualifies as? Too much information, Dr. Bolling.

PERINO: But very interesting, and that's why you watch "The Five."

They're running with the bulls in Spain right now. And if you want to know if we'd ever do something nuts like that stick around for "The Five's" crazy confessions. Up next.

GUILFOYLE: Wasn't that one?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: There are a lot of crazy people out there.

GUILFOYLE: Here, too.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Some of them have made their way to Pamplona, Spain, for the annual running of the bulls festival this week. One day one, yesterday, two Americans gored, along with a Brit. At least eight others injured.

Would we ever do something like that? Hmm. Well, what about race car driving? Did you see that big NASCAR crash in Daytona yesterday?

Wow. That was something. So Gregory, does taking big risks fall into your bailiwick?

GUTFELD: Well, first of all, there's a difference here. One of the risks there, the racing takes skill. The other just is pure idiocy. When I watched running with the bulls I always root for the bulls. I root for the bulls, and I wonder about what the doctors -- should there be doctors there, when they should be taking care of other people instead of guys that are trying to get horns in their groin? It's all about testosterone.

WILLIAMS: That's what I was going to say. What about young males? Young males like to take risks.

GUTFELD: He's just not that into humans is the issue.

GUTFELD: That's true.

WILLIAMS: What about you? Have you ever taken a big, big risk?

GUILFOYLE: Have I? Not really.

WILLIAMS: Not really?

GUILFOYLE: No. But I would, for sure, love to drive NASCAR. I love cars. I love...

WILLIAMS: Even after seeing the big crash?

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

WILLIAMS: All right. Eric, you're a man who takes risks.

BOLLING: So -- yes, and when I was single and didn't have a kid, I took more risks than I do now. I flew an ultralight once. You know, those -- literally, you're sitting on a lounge chair with a lawnmower engine behind you if that thing goes.

Very quickly, if you don't have a chance, these national parks. Six thousand feet up in the air right there.

GUILFOYLE: That's nice.

BOLLING: Walking up trails with literally two feet to the trail. And you're 6,000 feet on the side. I absolutely loved doing that.

PERINO: See, I've done that. But that doesn't -- I don't feel like that's crazy. But it doesn't give me an adrenaline rush. Because heights don't really bother me.

But I used to do all sorts of things on gravel. Like I would do back flips on a balance beam over gravel. It didn't bother me at all. And then I lost all that. And I don't get an adrenaline rush from -- I don't like that feeling.

GUILFOYLE: I won't do it now, being like a mom and having an 8-year-old.

BOLLING: Right.

WILLIAMS: I would tell you about the risks that I've taken, but we're out of time. "One More Thing," up next.

GUILFOYLE: Sitting at the table, baby!

(CROSSTALK)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: All right. It's time now for "One More Thing." Eric, what do you have?

BOLLING: All right. I'm ready to take some more heat from all my conservative friends. OK. Announced today, Carnival Cruiselines just got approval to bring cruise ships to Havana and back. In May of '16, they're going to start a few more technicalities they're going to work out. But you know what happens when you bring people there? You know what you need. You need ports. You need hotels. You need restaurants. You need casinos. My guess: we're going to send a lot of American workers over there, so I'm in favor.

GUILFOYLE: Are you going to be shortlist gordito blanco in the hot tub area of that cruiser?

BOLLING: Si empre (ph).

PERINO: Remember, the Cuban workers get paid in pesos. What you pay in dollars they pay them in pesos. That's one reason people (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

All right. Here's a good one. Fifteen-year-old Justin Rosenfeld detected an error at a museum, at the Museum of Science in Boston last month. He looked up, and he said, "Wait, that's actually not correct. It should be a plus or it should be minus." It's been up there for 34 years. He left a note at the museum. They contacted him and said, "You know what? You're right." And he says that he would like to attend MIT in Boston, so I hope that he gets his wish.

GUILFOYLE: How great.

PERINO: Thirty-four years and he caught it.

GUILFOYLE: His school essay will be fantastic. He has a great story to tell. All right, Greg, do you have anything positive?

GUTFELD: Showoff.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Greg's Celebrity Corner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: People keep asking me for more footage from this July weekend. What were the FNC employees doing? Well, I have footage of Eric Shawn water skiing. It's quite a scene. Check him out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(VIDEO OF SQUIRREL WATERSKIING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: He's getting on the water skis. He's got a little Go Pro on there. Eric is quite the avid waterskier, known worldwide for his tricks. There he is going around. Draws a crowd wherever he goes, Eric Shawn. Look at him enjoying himself.

BOLLING: That's almost as good as...

GUILFOYLE: Is that real?

BOLLING: ... as Dana in the wetsuit.

GUILFOYLE: Juan. Juan.

GUTFELD: Never mind.

WILLIAMS: If you think that presidential campaigns are all frivolous and silly and people saying stupid things, you owe an apology to Texas Governor Rick Perry.

Last week he gave a terrific speech about how black folks need to hold Democrats accountable for their failures in terms of improving the quality of life in the black community. He says that, in fact, Republicans have lost the moral legitimacy as the party of Lincoln by not going after that black vote. Says the best social service for anybody is a job. And he says the Democratic policies have made it harder for people of all colors to afford to get a job.

Go, Rick Perry. Thanks for a serious conversation.

GUILFOYLE: Wow. He should pay you or something. That was amazing.

All right. Former first lady, Nancy Reagan, celebrated her 94th birthday yesterday. And we're doing it today, because now we have the beautiful pictures that the Reagan Library released.

PERINO: Beautiful.

GUILFOYLE: You see the gorgeous cake there with cascading peonies, her favorite flower. So happy birthday to her. Class act.

Set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

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