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The Five

Are Donald Trump's ideas worth considering?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 17, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Juan Williams, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

He's got a long way to go to win the Republican nomination, but Donald Trump is already being asked if he'd pick a certain celebrity running mate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, GOOD MORNING AMERICA SHOW CO-HOST: Back in 1999 when you were thinking as running as the reform party candidate, you told Larry King you'd consider Oprah for vice president.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I liked Oprah. What can I tell you?

STEPHANOPOULOS: She's on your short list?

TRUMP: That would be great. I'd love to have Oprah. I think we would win easily, actually.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: With that answer made for juicy fodder for headlines like this one. "Trump wants Oprah on the ticket". But that Donald clarified on Fox and Friends this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They're saying oh, Donald wants Oprah. Give me a break. She's a friend of mine. I was on one of her last shows, one of her last shows. He said that as a joke. Would you do it? I said of course, I'd do it. She's great. And all of a sudden people make a big deal. They know that it was just kidding.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Making headlines. Yesterday, on The Five we had an interesting debate on one of Trump's announcement declarations. He said he'd build a great wall on our southern border and he'd get Mexico to pay for it. The question is how he gonna do that? Bill O'Reilly asked him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL O'REILLY, THE O'REILLY FACTOR SHOW HOST: They're not gonna pay for the wall.

TRUMP: You have to let me handle that, OK?

O'REILLY: Well, tell me how are you going to make them pay for that wall?

TRUMP: They are ripping us so badly.

O'REILLY: OK. OK.

TRUMP: No, no. I'll tell you how.

O'REILLY: Tell me.

TRUMP: Because I'll cut off all -- I'll start charging for their product coming into this country. Mexico is living off the United States.

O'REILLY: So you'd try to strangle them economically unless they pay for the wall?

TRUMP: They will pay for the wall. And the wall will go up and Mexico will start behaving.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: All right. So the idea is maybe we need to do things a little bit differently around here. Like kind of adopt like the Walmart, Kmart approach, which is charge everybody for everything, let's make a profit in America. Explain this business model and how he proposes to do this.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Well. Look, I'm not done Donald Trump's spokesperson, but I will tell you I understand where he's coming from. We need to get tough with China. We need to get tough with all the other countries that are dumping their goods into America without any fees, but if we try to sell into Brazil, we try to sell into China, Japan, some of the other developed and developing countries, they charge us a fee, a tax. So it's like this unfair trade balance that goes on. I get it. He says get tough with them.

With regards to the southern border, we talked about it yesterday. And I had no idea what his plan was, but I suggested maybe -- I don't know, maybe telling Mexico we're going to pay you $2 less per barrel of oil. Every barrel we buy from you, all the millions of barrels per day that we buy from you and spend the money securing the border. Whether it's a fence, whether it's a moat, whatever you do. Even if it's not even a fence, even if it's a border patrol, pay the border patrol through that. Look, here's the thing. Donald Trump is making the rest of the field better because he's speaking his mind. He's talking to people who have ideas and who are angry about the way politics have been for the last 20, 30, 40 or 50 years. And then finally, someone's willing to step up and have some other ideas. Let's at least try them. Let's at least think about them. See whether or not you like Donald, but you think he can be your president or not, he's got the rest of the field thinking. I think that's a good thing.

GUILFOYLE: About innovation and kind of putting the.

BOLLING: Everything. Everything is on the table now.

GUILFOYLE: Washington playbook through the shredder, perhaps. I don't know, Dana, your take.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: I mean I don't know what to say. I mean the -- one of the things conservatives say that they cannot stand about President Obama is his rule by executive action, OK, because they want to check by congress on executive action. Everything that was in that speech yesterday was about executive action. And I understand it's a popular and really good -- it feels good to hear that a president of the United States is going to bring back all of our jobs from China and Japan. It is so divorced from reality. And if you are actually worried about the future of this country, if you think that your children might not have a better living situation than you do -- and that is and on the rise. Gallup Polls is like 58 percent, the highest in five generations that people feel that way. Then, I mean, I think you got to take a little bit more seriously -- at least I do. And I'm surprised at some of the people who actually think some of this would work. Especially, given that their other positions are that for example, executive actions are not something that we should have, that we should not have an imperial president.

GUILFOYLE: OK. How do you reconcile the two, Greg, if you possibly can?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I think the happiest people in America right now are the writers for SNL, John Stewart, Jimmy Fallon, Stephen Colbert and here's why. For the past seven years they couldn't make a joke about Obama for fear of being called racist. They're like a guy on a road trip that keeps driving past all the restrooms, all the rest stops, and their bladder is so full. And there's Donald Trump, and now finally, they can let it all out. They -- I think that the most pathetic part about it all as it -- we have all these wusses whipping out their wicked pens now. But they spent almost eight years under their bed.

PERINO: Yup.

GUTFELD: And they didn't say a thing and that to me is kind of weak. But I was the whole -- let's get back to the Oprah thing. Why does president Trump hypothetically need a vice president?

GUILFOYLE: Good point.

PERINO: True.

GUTFELD: Why does he need a cabinet at all? Why can't it just be the Donald, just be him, maybe Ivanka. George -- get George Truss back. John Rich could be his bartender. Remember Carolyn Kepcher? She was a good girl.

GUILFOYLE: Sony Junior.

GUTFELD: Amarosa could be the press secretary. I don't know, and why -- is that live in the White House? That's a dump. You need to gut renovation. Totally, turn into in MiraLago too.

GUILFOYLE: Some like a sky scrapper.

GUTFELD: Forget the wall. Build a dome made out of sugar and peanut brittle. If I was -- if Trump was president, don't pardon any more turkeys. Screw the turkeys. What did they do for us? Band the egg roll, that's racist. And don't kiss any babies because they're germ factories.

GUILFOYLE: OK, very.

GUTFELD: There, I just told the whole platform.

GUILFOYLE: Very good advice. All right, so what do you think about this? He's trying to bring some innovation, some creativity from a business perspective. Some of the criticisms of others that are in the races, they don't have executive action, you know, experience. They don't have the ability to make decision like this. They haven't run corporations, they haven't run states. So you're seeing a little bit of that blowback because well, we can't have another first term senator.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: He's never run anything. I mean, he run his business, I don't know if he's run it well or not. Well, there have been bankruptcies, there have been problems.

GUILFOYLE: Well, he suggested nine billion reasons.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know when we -- you know, he says he's put out now his assets and liabilities. I think it's kind of hilarious. I mean, this is all part of the joke. Once he puts out a tax return, huh, then I'll see. But I -- so far, I know nothing. To get back to Oprah, I think that's great. But you know why he needs a running mate? It's because Yogi needed Boo-Boo.

GUTFELD: Oh, yes.

WILLIAMS: You know what I mean? Stanford needed son.

PERINO: Also in the constitution.

WILLIAMS: Lucy needed Ethel. This is a TV show. And that's what he's putting on. He's putting on a TV show.

PERINO: And we're helping.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. I think we are helping big time. And I must say, as a, you know, as a Democrat, I'm like, well, go right ahead. Go help yourself.

PERINO: Or absolutely knock yourselves out.

WILLIAMS: Check it out. Why would I get in the way of a Republican, you know a self-emulation?

PERINO: Yes.

BOLLING: Does he hurt the process? I don't know.

WILLIAMS: Oh, it's terrible.

BOLLING: Yeah, you can.

WILLIAMS: And you can, if you're a C-list Republican, Eric.

BOLLING: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: Do you think you're help by having him on the stage with you?

BOLLING: Yes. No, no, I don't think your help personally, but I think the American people are helped because.

GUILFOYLE: OK.

BOLLING: Now they have to address some of the things.

WILLIAMS: No.

BOLLING: That Donald Trump addresses.

WILLIAMS: What a waste of time.

BOLLING: That these guys don't want to talk about.

WILLIAMS: You think these are serious issues?

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: You may not like the way he's talking about them. You may not like the way he's delivering or you may not like Donald Trump personally.

WILLIAMS: No, no. I like Donald Trump.

(CROSSTALK) BOLLING: That is resonating with the American people.

PERINO: OK. But do you actually think that somebody on stage, say Marco Rubio, Rand Paul, whoever. Ted Cruz, take your pick. That they should -- on the debate stage, the moderator should say, Mr. Rubio, Trump says that he's going to bring back all the jobs from China. How do you respond? And like the candidates are supposed to respond to that? How actually is Donald Trump is going to bring back all the jobs from China? And here's the thing for him. This is where the rubber meets the road. He's now a declared candidate. So when you say stuff like, yeah, I think Oprah should be the vice president, sure. Well, actually now you're going to have to back up on it. And so in the morning, then you have to go on Fox and Friends and go all the way. I didn't really mean that. What I meant to say was -- and it's a totally different ball game.

BOLLING: No, no, but there -- how's this? Every one of the debate moderators are looking forward to that moment where they can say, Mr. Trump said this, how do you respond, Rand? Or how do you respond Rand, Marco or Jeb? And everyone in America is you know, wait, let me see what Jeb's says about what he says.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, this is all entertainment.

BOLLING: No.

PERINO: That's why.

BOLLING: No, no.

WILLIAMS: This is (inaudible).

PERINO: It's ridiculous.

BOLLING: No. Because then they will want to know what Jeb says.

WILLIAMS: No.

PERINO: How would you answer that? And how would say, how do you bring back all the jobs from China?

BOLLING: I don't -- first of all, I think -- I don't know that Donald ever said he'll bring back all the jobs from China, but.

PERINO: He said it in his speech yesterday.

BOLLING: That you certainly back summer jobs from China.

PERINO: No, that's -- and like covering up for him is actually wrong. And I understand.

BOLLING: OK.

PERINO: That you have.

GUILFOYLE: They said that he beats China every day.

PERINO: A deal that you're trying to work on with him. I saw the Twitter last night. I just don't see how that's any different than how another journalist is actually pandering.

BOLLING: So, I don't know what you're talking about.

PERINO: When you said you've been trying to close the deal for years for you to be on Celebrity Apprentice.

BOLLING: Oh, my God. You actually think that I -- I've been friendly with.

PERINO: You were supposed.

BOLLING: Donald Trump for 15 years.

PERINO: You are the one he was shouting from the rooftop last yesterday.

BOLLING: And now you -- hold on. And you actually are saying that you're going to accuse me of things -- saying that Donald Trump has some good ideas that are resonating with America because I want to be on Celebrity Apprentice? Please tell me that's not the case. Because.

PERINO: I am saying it.

BOLLING: I will tell you unequivocally, that is not the case.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, God knows you don't need more money.

BOLLING: I can't be on Celebrity Apprentice anyway. I'm a host at Fox News. I'm not allowed to.

GUTFELD: But you did want to do it.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: But yesterday, you said.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I've been trying to close the door for years.

GUTFELD: You have to be honest.

BOLLING: Yes, so what?

GUTFELD: You have to be honest.

PERINO: You said it.

BOLLING: Seven years ago, Donald Trump came to Fox and said, hey, can he be on Celebrity Apprentice?

GUILFOYLE: He did that.

BOLLING: And the boss said.

GUILFOYLE: You know what? BOLLING: No. He can't.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, you weren't. He did ask. You.

PERINO: If I -- let me just say.

BOLLING: By the way, Dana.

PERINO: From a journalist standpoint.

BOLLING: Dana, I have way more ethics.

PERINO: I would not have said that last night.

BOLLING: It's probably.

GUILFOYLE: OK.

BOLLING: Way more ethics than to use this platform, which I love.

GUILFOYLE: All right, that's it. We're gonna.

BOLLING: Stop. I love dearly this Five, I do. I was here from day one. I hope to be your day last.

PERINO: Oh, guess what, so as I.

BOLLING: Go ahead and do say.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

BOLLING: Say something like that to get a spot.

PERINO: You said it. I didn't say it last night. You did.

GUILFOYLE: All right, you had enough. Go to your rooms.

BOLLING: Wow. Wow.

GUILFOYLE: Putin, now.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Like Donald Trump brings out the best of everybody.

GUILFOYLE: I know.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: You know...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: He has no respect for our president, whatsoever. He's got a tremendous popularity in Russia. They love what he's doing. They love what he represents.

O'REILLY: So we have a president who is absolutely -- you look at them. The chemistry is so bad between those two people. So you could make a deal with Putin to stop his expansion?

TRUMP: I would be willing to bet. I would have a great relationship with Putin. It's about leadership.

O'REILLY: Based on what? You're two macho guys? Come on.

TRUMP: No, no. Based on a feel, OK? You know deals are people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: All right, Greg.

GUTFELD: I'd like to talk more about the apprentice.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. You see, this is one of those things, though, that we don't know if what he can do, can actually be done. And I'm not so sure that complimenting Putin is the right way to go because what's going on in Ukraine -- saying that because he's a strong leader, I'm a strong leader, that's not a coherent argument. The argument is I will be a stronger -- I will be a stronger advocate for the United States than President Obama. I would go and be able to challenge Putin and have a real reset button and not end in chaos the way it is now, but the idea that we would get along, that's not the right way to put it. The right way to put it is I would be able to face Putin, you know -- go ahead.

WILLIAMS: Well, I just think that Putin, from my view is someone who's a danger to the world and bombastic and a self-promoter.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: And I think oh, so he thinks that he is going to be like Putin and he's going to be friends with Putin because they're so alike. And they represent kind of nationalistic interests, Putin and Russia and he and the United States. I just think this is not the future I want for my children.

GUTFELD: Yeah, they're like the kind of the big men on campus getting together.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

GUTFELD: Over a beer.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. But I like -- you know, this whole thing does, I was -- I thought it was captured by the Democratic National Committee, which put out a memo.

PERINO: Absolutely.

WILLIAMS: And said, oh, welcome to the race, Donald Trump. You're gonna add such a degree of seriousness to the Republican Party in the debates. Well, why would your enemy, if you're a Republican, if why would your enemy be welcoming Donald Trump to your ranks? Guess -- you think about this.

PERINO: Because mockery is successful.

WILLIAMS: You think about this, Republicans.

PERINO: Mockery works.

GUILFOYLE: All right. We'll ends in amazing cable (ph). I'm exhausted.

Ahead, do liberals really care more about the little guy than conservatives? Some Hollywood hypocrisy headed your way, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Welcome back. So, on some talk show, comedy powerhouse Judd Apatow said it's crazy to think rich people care about other people. Well, unless they're rich leftists.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDD APATOW, COMEDIAN AND DIRECTOR: I just think it's ridiculous that anybody thinks that rich people care about other people, all right.

(LAUGHTER)

APATOW: Just as simple as that. Like when the Koch brothers like give -- like new -- a billion dollars for the new election cycle. It isn't out of a great concern for the masses. So everyone is forced into this game.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That applies from your point, just as much too Hollywood liberals, as the Koch brothers?

APATOW: I think the difference is that Hollywood liberals would be willing to change the entire system if we all would get the money out of it. And I don't think the conservatives would do that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: So you get that? Rich Hollywood liberals care, rich conservatives don't. Now, I could defend the Kochs easily. David has given over a billion dollars to medical and cultural causes. But why bother with such facts? With Judd, you're talking to a wall. An ideological barrier that can only endure as long as you believe your opponent is driven by ill will. It's one thing to say you think someone's wrong. But it's another to say they're just no good. Judd does that which allows for his hypocrisy. To him, a rich liberal can flood politics with money because it's for the greater good. Your rich people are evil, my rich people good. This is a conviction driven by the insecurity prevalent in novices playing catch up with newfound politics. But consider the person who allows the possibly of being wrong. He ends up with sharper ideas, for conflict exercises your muscles of logic and reason. Rather than playing patty cake with a salivating fan base.

So Judd's not evil. He's sometimes right, he sometimes wrong. But he'd probably never say that about us. Which makes you wonder, how far his side might go to hurt its opponents? If all disagreement is rooted in malice, then everything's permitted when you're fighting evil. Demonize, ostracize and pulverize all the name of the greater good.

So, Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

GUTFELD: Is it -- it's always that way that rich people, if you're conservative are usually really, really bad. But if you're a rich liberal, it's your liberalism that allows you to be rich.

GUILFOYLE: Well, sure. But there is that hypocrisy that exists. But then you have to pierce the hypocrisy veil and shroud to go beneath and find the truth. And the truth is the Koch brothers have personally given more than $800 million, to cancer charities, to support the arts, that's something that liberals like. Medical research, education, you name it. They are contributors to American society, to charitable causes. They are tremendous businessmen and philanthropists. We should be celebrating them as a great example of this country and the free market. And instead, they are demonized unfairly and depicted in a way that is inaccurate.

GUTFELD: Dana, I have this theory. If you hang around the same people all the time, like if you're in Hollywood and you're Judd Apatow, you fossilize your thoughts. So that there are almost immovable but constipated. And so no matter what, you always gonna think the same way and no one's gonna change your mind.

PERINO: It's like (inaudible) for any group.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: Right. So, like to say the far right is that, the far left. You could do that with anyone. I actually think the one of the ways to fight back on something like this is to flip it around and then say, actually, let's look at some of the Hollywood celebrities and their charities. I think one of the good examples we did the story on the show. Is when Leonardo DiCaprio had the big environmental.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Global warming piece event and he was doing, but went there in his private jet with his fleet of cars and they don't have to walk the walk. They just got the good PR out of doing charity.

GUTFELD: Do you think Judd has any points?

BOLLING: Here's what I see as part of the problem. So the Koch brothers put a hundred million dollars into New York Presbyterian, they put a hundred million dollars into another cancer research center, a billion dollars towards various medical things, research, whatever. The left says oh, but those are conservatives. You know how they are. They don't really mean it. They don't, they don't -- it's not really for good. Why are we looking at the quality of other people's donations? Why are we on the right looking at Hollywood and say oh, you know those are just Hollywood liberals and they have a different agenda. Who cares? Cancer needs more money. The arts need more money. There are a lot of causes that need more money which is just being happy. Both sides are willing to pony up and stop looking at, our money is better than your money. It's all green, folks.

GUTFELD: Juan?

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, this is -- this conversation strikes me as off kilter because I'm with you? Give money?

GUILFOYLE: Just this one?

WILLIAMS: No, many. But actually, on this one I will say, yeah, sure. Give money. But this is not about charities. What Judd Apatow is talking about is not charitable donations.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: He's talking about political donations.

GUTFELD: Right, right.

WILLIAMS: OK.

GUTFELD: But he's OK with his side.

WILLIAMS: No, no. Hang on. But what his point was, if you throw a ton of money in as the Koch brothers are, I don't think anybody's debating that. They're making huge contributions right now under the new citizen's united ruling by the Supreme Court. It's the law.

GUTFELD: Right.

WILLIAMS: They have free speech and they are exercising their free speech to advance lower taxes, less regulation, right?

GUTFELD: Right.

WILLIAMS: They're advancing things like, I like that American Legislative Council that goes around the states and operates in a state capital, state legislatures, does things like stand your ground laws, and even some of this voter I.D. stuff. It's all from a strongly ideological conservative perspective. And so he's saying, wait a second. So if they're throwing in all the money for me.

PERINO: What about Tom Steyer?

WILLIAMS: Because the advance conservative ideas, why would you object to somebody in Hollywood throwing in money from the liberal perspective.

PERINO: Oh, well. OK, but what about Tom Steyer who.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

PERINO: Funded.

WILLIAMS: Like in the environment?

PERINO: He gave like $60 million.

WILLIAMS: Correct.

PERINO: Maybe I.

WILLIAMS: Correct.

PERINO: Might have been more than that.

WILLIAMS: Right.

PERINO: And they actually have a telethon, basically, on the floor of the United States senate led by Harry Reid right before the election, to prove to Tom Steyer.

WILLIAMS: Correct.

PERINO: That they were trying. So, what after -- he's not just -- he's not being honest.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: About the other side. I think that's.

GUTFELD: And also there's -- what about Soros?

BOLLING: But Apatow at one point maybe -- he is saying that the Koch brothers are donating so much to charity. So much philanthropy, so it outpaces their political donations to kind of put cover over their political donations.

WILLIAMS: Oh, that's -- you know, that's not fair. Look. As you said, money to charity to me it's good. You know, I think one of the Koch brothers had prostate cancer and he's been very active. You know, God bless. That's great. I'm talking about political stuff. And I think that's the heart and soul of what Judd Apatow was saying. And that's the argument by you hear -- why the way that you hear from big players on the left. He talks about Soros and the others, Dana. This is the argument that hey, if we don't get in right now, it's Republican money coming from the Koch brothers and others that will dominate the political sphere.

PERINO: Oh my, gosh. So they'll be able to win an argument.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: Look out.

GUTFELD: All right. On that note, the Fastest 7 is up next. Including Jeb's tonight show jam and more, stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) BOLLING: Welcome back, time for the fastest full seven minutes on television. Three peaking stories, seven perky minutes, one that peppery (ph) host, first off. The New York Times broke the story yesterday. The FBI is investigating the St. Louis Cardinals for allegedly hacking into the Houston Astros player database. Ladies and gentlemen, great news, though, Bob Costas is on the case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB COSTAS, SPORTSCASTER: The key is gonna be how high up does it goes? If it goes near the top of the Cardinal pyramid, it's not just a major baseball scandal. It's a blow to St. Louis's to sense of itself because the Cardinals are viewed as not just a successful team, but a model franchise. Information is extremely valuable now. There is a motivation here. Who acted upon it is the key question when it comes to the Cardinals.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Is there anything going right in America? So much bad stuff going on, but it usually never spreads to sports. But now, football, Brady's deflating footballs. Baseball is hacking, soccer corrupt FIFA. I love sports and I'm shaking my head with what's going on every single day, it seems like, I sure hope it stops. Juan, the latest on hacking, but sports in general.

WILLIAMS: But you know it's just.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: You know, I mean. You know, you just feel like a nafe (ph). I mean, why would they do this? And I understand it's a really interesting story is that there's an executive, a guy who was actually a businessman who was really good with numbers. And you know, metrics, sabermetrics has become the be all and end all in baseball, money ball (inaudible).

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: OK. So this guy brought some of that to St. Louis and then got pushed out by the other guys. You say you know what baseball is really about talent and scouts and what happens on the field, not in some computer room. So but when he left to go to the Houston Astros, they may have kept a lot of all the passwords he used while he was with the Cardinals. And then they ran through it and they found, hey, we can get into ground control which is what the Houston Astros call their collection of information on drafts and the scouting analysis of other teams. So you've got to just wonder. Why were they doing this? It just seems so awful and.

GUILFOYLE: Kidding (ph).

WILLIAMS: You know Roger Cossack over the ESPN said they're close now to making an announcement about this. And he thinks it will go all the way to the top.

BOLLING: They are cheating -- cheating corporate espionage.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, absolutely.

BOLLING: It's widely illegal.

GUILFOYLE: Really, really that. It's illegal, I just -- it's disheartening. You know what this means, yup, another like special or select committee. Congress is going get involved. I mean, there is so much like dirty laundry in professional sports. They may even call for some investigations to overhaul. When you look at all the headlines and what's been going on. NBA, NFL, now MLB, my God.

BOLLING: Yeah, what's next?

GUILFOYLE: Well, it's hockey OK, still? I don't have time to check.

BOLLING: Of course.

GUILFOYLE: FIFA disaster.

GUTFELD: The point though is bad, now that it is in sports. This is nothing compared to what happened last week. Twelve million federal workers got all their personal and private information taken. And I guess...

GUILFOYLE: So you're saying China is behind this, too?

GUTFELD: China is behind it.

GUILFOYLE: I knew it!

GUTFELD: By the way, they say it's hacking, but you know what it is? Bad passwords. It's bad passwords. That's all it is.

PERINO: You can't use your pet's -- you can't use your pet's first name?

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: I don't think...

PERINO: Can't use your pet's name as your password.

BOLLING: Is it disheartening that even sports is...

PERINO: I was just wondering. Obviously, I don't play professional sports. But doesn't this, like, take the fun out of it? Like, when you're like -- if you were going to find out the plays of somebody else's side, like what's the point anymore?

BOLLING: All right. Let's move on to this one. Last night Jeb Bush visited "The Tonight Show." Jeb slow-jammed the news with Jimmy Fallon and the band.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We face an important election in 2016. Whoever we choose will be tasked with changing the course of our country and whipping America into shape.

JIMMY FALLON, HOST, NBC'S "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JIMMY FALLON": You hear that, America? Jeb Bush just said he wants to whip you, "50 Shades of Gray" style.

(SOUND EFFECT: WHIP CRACKING)

BUSH: Jimmy, I think I speak for all Americans when I say, eww!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): Jimmy just got bushwhacked!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Oh, yes. Nice job on Jeb.

PERINO: I've got to disagree.

BOLLING: You don't like it?

PERINO: No. I don't know. I mean, maybe I'm old-fashioned or whatever. I thought it was a little risque for my taste. But I get it. But I understand that there are some -- there are some reasons to want to go and do this. I think President Obama is really, really good at it. I don't know if Jeb Bush was great at it, but maybe he'll get better at it, if that's what you're going to have to do.

GUTFELD: It is about President Obama. He established a new world...

GUILFOYLE: Cool.

GUTFELD: ... a new bar. He went on everything. I think he did a talent show in Milpitas, California, where he did a scene from "Pippin," and it was really good.

But you know what? This is -- it's a good thing to have a candidate with a sense of humor who can laugh at himself and trade jabs with people like the new Jon Stewarts or whatever. This helps. Because there's no way out of it.

BOLLING: Go ahead.

WILLIAMS: All right. I was going to say, it humanizes him. But I agree with Dana. It's a little bit risque. I mean, we just showed a little bit. I mean, America, if you want to see it, you know, it gets pretty explicit about the jokes and the shape of Florida, for example.

GUTFELD: Did you blush?

WILLIAMS: You know, it's hard for me.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

WILLIAMS: But I will say that, you know, when I saw that I thought, you know what? I don't -- I don't think it was Obama that started this. Because I remember going back to...

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Clinton playing the saxophone on "Arsenio Hall."

WILLIAMS: On "Arsenio Hall."

PERINO: I loved Arsenio Hall.

GUILFOYLE: That was very good.

I get it. You know, "A" for effort and "B" for Bush.

BOLLING: All right. Let's -- on that note, on that positive note. K.G. always has a positive note. Finally, no doubt you've been tracking the dual shark attacks just 90 minutes apart in the same beach in North Carolina. The second victim, Hunter Treschl, lost his arm but not his spirit. Listen to this inspiring young man.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUNTER TRESCHL, LOST ARM IN SHARK ATTACK: So I have kind of two options. I can try to live my life the way I was and make an effort to do that, even though I don't have an arm; or I can kind of just let this be completely debilitating and bring my life down and ruin it in a way. And out of those two, there's really only one that I would actually choose to do, and that's to try to fight and live a normal life with the cards I've been dealt.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: K.G.

GUILFOYLE: I know. What maturity, what presence and just sense of self and good spirit inside of him. Very inspirational for young people. And even adults. People to hear. People complain about a lot of things. Look at this young man and take something from his spirit and his strength.

BOLLING: Dana, he must -- he must have read your book. Look on the bright side.

PERINO: I don't know.

I was actually going to agree. I would love to see an interview with his parents, because you wonder what kind of parents were they to be able to instill that kind of poise and dignity into somebody that young?

GUILFOYLE: I agree.

PERINO: I think the good news is, and not to play on that, but is that technology now is so advanced that he will be able to, hopefully, get an arm.

GUILFOYLE: Prosthetic.

PERINO: A prosthetic or a robotic arm that will allow him to do most of what he was doing before.

BOLLING: What do you guys think?

WILLIAMS: You know, I was wondering if a minister had been in to talk to him just before he did that interview.

PERINO: Maybe.

WILLIAMS: I thought what a terrific, terrific interview. And boy -- and his vocabulary, his sense of self and his sense of spirituality.

I will say this. I -- I go down the to the beach every summer in North Carolina, and I'm amazed. I never see sharks. Now some people tell me they see sharks in the area, including one person who's on the set, our stage director. But I only see dolphins and other things. And actually...

GUILFOYLE: You go in the ocean?

WILLIAMS: Yes, I do go deeply into the ocean.

GUILFOYLE: You're brave.

BOLLING: Greg.

GUTFELD: OK. They're actually declining, sharks.

PERINO: Is it because of global warming?

GUTFELD: Some people might say that.

But there are more humans in the ocean. And there's better reporting of these attacks. In the United States since, I guess it was the last 115 years, there have only been 156 deaths. A little over one a year. So there you go.

BOLLING: There you go.

WILLIAMS: Yes. But it's time for "Sharknado."

GUTFELD: Yes, that's coming up.

GUILFOYLE: What about Shark Week?

BOLLING: It's also time for the next block. New developments on the hunt for two fugitive murderers on the run for more than a week and a half. That's coming right up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: All right. It's now been 12 days since two murderers escaped from a maximum-security prison in New York. But investigators say they are not giving up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT LAFOUNTAIN, NEW YORK STATE POLICE CAPTAIN: If there's one word that I thought of throughout this investigation, it is "relentless." And we are going to pursue every lead, and we are going to locate these individuals, and they will be apprehended.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: They released new photos earlier of what David Sweat and Richard Matt might look like after ten days at large.

They also confirmed that the prison worker charged with helping them escape talked about a plan with fugitives to murder her husband. And Kimberly, he actually went to visit his wife in prison after finding out that she allegedly had sex with both of them and then plotted to help them get out of the prison, and that after they got out, they were to kill him.

GUILFOYLE: He must think she's going to get some kind of good book deal. Is that what it is?

PERINO: I don't know.

GUILFOYLE: Marital property? I mean, no. OK, "Well, the good news is that I have panic attack, went to the hospital, so I didn't let them come to the house to kill you." Oh, fantastic. Let's not...

PERINO: Is she in a lot of trouble?

GUILFOYLE: She's in a huge amount of trouble, because she's an accessory, so she could be responsible if they shoot and kill somebody along the way. She set the forces in motion to let them escape and help them in every way. But for her help, could they have achieved this, right?

So God knows these are very dangerous felons. They haven't been able to get a handle, and the cold -- the trail gets even colder. A million bucks a day trying to be able to find them. I mean, they're in the wind now. Good luck. And by this point, yes, they might have split up to make it harder to be able to, you know, detect them.

PERINO: That's a good question, Eric, about the costs. So if it -- how long do you think that the state of New York is willing to let it go on at this type of cost per day before they kind of say, "Well, we'll keep looking but maybe draw it back"?

BOLLING: ... saying how long is CNN going to cover the MH-370 flight. Who knows?

Governor Cuomo made a big thing. He went out to the prison. He -- you know, he climbed through the wall that they climbed through. So I think because he did that, he probably will spare no expense. The $100,000 reward or whatever the number ends up being. I think they'll continue to do it.

The big concern is that these guys have nothing to lose. They're already in life -- they're already in prison for life. So I don't know. That may actually be a good thing, though. They may say, "You know what? I'd rather live the rest of my life in prison than kill someone." And now...

WILLIAMS: You know what these guys did? I just -- I didn't realize this. One of them killed a deputy sheriff. And the other one chopped up his boss. Chopped him up, man!

PERINO: Do you think they're still together, Greg? Like on their -- after they escaped, do you think they split up or are they still together?

GUTFELD: I have no idea.

PERINO: Speculate.

GUTFELD: I have no clue. But you know, speaking of speculation, I think every guy goes through the mental exercises. Imagining what you would do if you were in the situation. Because we played hide and seek as kids. And whether we admit it or not, it is somewhat exciting to think about what you would be doing.

Like I wonder who would I call first? Like I couldn't call my family. If I was on the run, you can't call your family. Who would you call?

PERINO: Who did you decide?

GUTFELD: Well, I decided I would call you.

PERINO: Great.

GUTFELD: And then I know you would say, "Turn yourself in." So I would call Lou Dobbs.

And Dobbs would just say, "Gutfeld, there's a satchel of 100 grand in a car in Milpitas at the Arby's. Do not talk to me again. There's a passport." And then he would hang up. That's what Dobbs does.

WILLIAMS: Don't you think the most amazing aspect of this story is that the husband went to visit her...

GUTFELD: I know.

WILLIAMS: ... after she apparently had sex with both of these guys.

PERINO: But he did say he's not going to testify on her behalf. So...

GUTFELD: There you go.

PERINO: All right. Ahead, where does Al Sharpton stand on the NAACP leader accused of lying about her race? You're going to find out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Rachel Dolezal misled the NAACP about her race as president of its Spokane chapter. But the civil rights organization stood by her. And now Al Sharpton is, too. He says shame on her parents.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

AL SHARPTON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: Mom and Dad, come on. Are you really going to do this to your kid? Are we going to have this kind of dysfunctional family stuff play out and -- and distract us from real key civil rights causes? Y'all just noticed she was in the NAACP?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: This is unbelievable. But I've got to go on.

One member of the black community wishes conservatives like her were given as much support. Here's Deneen Borelli.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DENEEN BORELLI, AUTHOR, "BLACKLASH": You look at me, someone who is a black conservative. I am criticized, called all kinds of names. I'm told I act white, I talk white. I should dye my hair blond. I don't get -- I don't get support from the NAACP, Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson. I'm considered a sell-out. But this person is celebrated. Go figure.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: You know, the reality is, I know this personally but my son, Rafi, goes through this all the time.

You see among that civil rights establishment a mentality that's locked in. Stultified thinking. And then they wonder why people think they're old school and a thing of the past and anachronisms.

You know, Greg, I just don't -- to me hearing Al Sharpton go that low -- he's going to attack her parents...

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: ... who were asked. The parents didn't go and put this out. They were asked, and they responded honestly. Now they are subject to attack by Al Sharpton in his defense of a woman who, I think, is a little bit psychotic.

GUTFELD: Well, Sharpton loves a hoax. Remember, he -- Tawana Brawly. That was his baby, and that was a hoax. And so he -- wherever there's a hoax there's Al Sharpton.

The sad part is, what Doreen said, Doreen said...

PERINO: Deneen.

GUTFELD: ... Deneen said was that people like Mike -- people like Michael Eric Dyson and Melissa Harris-Perry, value white frauds, white frauds over black conservatives. And that Rachel is more black than your son Rafi because he's a Republican. Think about that.

WILLIAMS: It's unbelievable. They think -- they think this about Justice Thomas. They think this about...

PERINO: Condoleezza Rice.

WILLIAMS: ... Condi. How about Colin Powell? Anybody who is actually challenging, who's working in the world of politics, they're bad.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: I think it also -- I think it extends beyond race, actually. And if you look at gay Republicans, they are also -- I mean, we just talked my "One More Thing" yesterday was about that, that the left does not embrace gay Republicans, either. Even though what they wanted was equality. And now that they get it, they don't accept it.

WILLIAMS: Well, it's just so weird. Because you know, Eric, when I think about it I think there are so many values issues where the black community is actually pretty conservative. I could go down: death penalty. I can talk about gay rights. I can think about church. The black community's right there. And yet somehow these folks say, "You're not with us unless you hold to strictly liberal thinking in terms of race in America."

BOLLING: You're a great example. How are you treated when you're, you know, amongst...

GUILFOYLE: Aww.

BOLLING: ... conservatives and liberals by the liberals?

WILLIAMS: Well, it's not good. It's just -- that's why I say, it seems -- it seems to me that there's something wrong, though. Because it's stopping growth in the community. In other words, you've got to have conflicting ideas to produce the best ideas. But somehow people think...

GUILFOYLE: I like that.

WILLIAMS: What?

GUILFOYLE: I like that.

WILLIAMS: I think it's right, don't you?

GUILFOYLE: Sure.

WILLIAMS: You think back even to the history. I mean, you think back to people like Frederick Douglass. He was a Republican. Are you going to check Frederick Douglass's race at the door now?

GUILFOYLE: No, I mean, yes, that's hypocrisy. And it's -- it's very divisive. It's certainly not inclusive, and I think it's small-minded. All of those things.

BOLLING: Nicely done.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you.

WILLIAMS: By the way, are you -- you're not black. No. No.

GUILFOYLE: What?

WILLIAMS: "One More Thing" up next.

GUILFOYLE: What?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing." And today we've got a special guest at the table. Dana is going to tell you why "Real Story" host Gretchen Carlson is here -- Dana.

PERINO: Well, this is an unusual thing, but we're glad to have you.

GRETCHEN CARLSON, HOST, "REAL STORY": Thank you.

PERINO: For your first "One More Thing."

CARLSON: Yes.

PERINO: And your first "One More Thing," you get to talk about your first book. "Getting Real" comes out on Tuesday.

CARLSON: Yes. "Getting Real." And so it's the story of my life from violin prodigy to unexpected Miss America to 25 years in TV. But most of the book is about struggles and failures along the way and the life lessons that we learn from that. How I got fired a week after I got married and was told I'd be fine because I had a husband. The toughest year of my life. And so I have great empathy for people who have lost their jobs.

I talk about a life-threatening stalker for the very first time that I encountered for four years.

PERINO: That is a hard part to read in the book.

CARLSON: Yes. Awful situation. But I want to help other people who are going through that.

The main thing is to inspire young people that the American dream is still alive and well. And that, no matter what you have as far as struggles or failures along the way, that success is always a bit better after you're had to struggle.

PERINO: True. Congratulations. I know it's going well. We're glad to have you.

CARLSON: Thank you so much.

PERINO: You're welcome.

GUILFOYLE: Fantastic. You can check. It's on all the web sites.

CARLSON: Of course.

GUILFOYLE: You're going to be at Barnes & Noble, right?

CARLSON: I'm going to be there at Union Square in New York City.

PERINO: And The Village tonight.

CARLSON: The Village is tomorrow night.

GUILFOYLE: Well, for those of you basketball fans out there, the long wait is over. Greg, that's right. Because guess what? Finally...

PERINO: What?

GUILFOYLE: ... after 40 years the NBA title is back in the Bay Area with the Golden State Warriors handing a series defeat to LeBron and the Cavaliers on Tuesday night. So this is a very exciting time.

You got to love this. Quicken Loans Arena. So 105-97. That was the score. LeBron did his best. I don't know. Too many apple martinis. That's my opinion.

BOLLING: And don't forget...

GUILFOYLE: He drinks them at Nobu.

BOLLING: Don't forget the Golden State Warriors coach, Steve Kerr, whose father was assassinated by Hezbollah terrorists when he was a freshman in college at the University of Arizona. That was a great, great story. Great story for him, as well.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, fantastic. I'm sure people were excited. All right.

BOLLING: So last night, while that was going on, switching back and forth to "Tyrant." The series, season two premiered last night. Fantastic series. Along the lines of "Homeland," but this tracks reality. This is almost like Syria.

So you have an Arab leader brother. His other brother who's Arab-born, was educated in America; is a doctor. They get together. Take a little look at what happened last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do what you have to do.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can't force me to move. I have the upper hand. I could keep you in here, my prison, for the rest of your life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: So the rebels in this fictitious Arab country trying to overtake Jamal, the brother; Assam (ph), the other brother, the American, is trying to help the whole situation out. They get into a big fight. It's a great series.

GUILFOYLE: Put a smile on your face. All right.

Juan, what do you have for us?

WILLIAMS: By the way, Gretchen, I just think this is a wonderful opportunity for people to get to know you.

CARLSON: Thank you.

WILLIAMS: You went to Stanford, right?

CARLSON: I did. Thanks so much.

WILLIAMS: I just think, you know...

GUTFELD: Boo!

PERINO: Why would you say boo? Did you go to Berkeley? All right.

WILLIAMS: All right. Stop it. Stop it. Enough of this.

All right. So you know, we had that story earlier about that inspiring young man who lost his arm to a shark and his amazing response. Well, take a look here. We had a fire yesterday in Orange County, Florida. Isaiah Francis, 10, and Jeremiah Grimes, 11, ran into a burning mobile home and helped to save two children, a 1-year-old and an 8-month-old, to get out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEREMIAH GRIMES, YOUNG HERO: I grabbed the infant, and Isaiah grabbed the 1-1/2-year-old, because there were black and orange flames everywhere.

ISAIAH FRANCIS, YOUNG HERO: I was scared. I went in there. But I got through my fears, and I did it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WILLIAMS: You know, firefighters arrived after they did this and saved two more children. So you stop and think about, you know, just from the heart, what inspiring young people. So today, hats off to young America.

PERINO: Very nice.

GUILFOYLE: You really bring your A-game in "One More Thing." I want to tell you that.

PERINO: That's true. He does.

GUILFOYLE: Then there's Greg.

GUTFELD: What's that supposed to mean?

GUILFOYLE: I don't know. What are you going to do? The equipment coach? What's today? GUTFELD: It's time for...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: "Greg's Eternal Questions About Life"!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: All right. So today I'm on the 18th floor. That's where my office is. I found out that the woman's bathroom, not because I walked in there, but they had a thing blocking it. They're getting a new couch.

So Greg's eternal question is why? Why do women's bathrooms have couches? Why would you want to sit in a woman's bathroom unless you're doing your business?

GUILFOYLE: That's a great question.

GUTFELD: Why?

GUILFOYLE: People do. They hang out in there for a long time.

PERINO: People actually -- they have conversations in there.

GUTFELD: Oh, sorry.

PERINO: You don't have a couch?

GUTFELD: We don't have a couch.

CARLSON: They don't even have doors.

GUTFELD: We don't even have toilet paper.

GUILFOYLE: That's it. Thanks for being with us. Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

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