Sign in to comment!

The Five

Is Donald Trump a serious candidate for president?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," June 16, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Look out, politicians. The GOP field just added a businessman to the list of presidential hopefuls.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Ladies and gentlemen, I am officially running for president of the United States and we are going to make our country great again.

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Like him or not Donald Trump is an unabashed believer and Donald Trump's ability to bring prosperity back to America. Trump embraced his wealth rather than running from it, boasting a net worth near $9 billion. Let's dig into what the Donald had to say on policy. We gonna start right here at home. Here's what Donald Trump said he could offer the American people.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I will be the greatest jobs president that God ever created. I tell you that. I'll bring back our jobs from China, from Mexico, from Japan, from so many places. I'll bring back our jobs and I'll bring back our money.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: On foreign policy, Trump had some interesting ideas that just might resonate with some conservatives.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. I would build a great wall and nobody builds walls better than me, believe me. And I will have Mexico pay for that wall. And when was the last time anybody saw us beating, let's say China in a trade deal? They kill us. I beat China all the time, all the time.

(APPLAUSE)

TRUMP: When did we beat Japan at anything? They send their cars over by the millions. And what do we do? When was the last time you saw a Chevrolet in Tokyo?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: I don't even know where to start. I've --

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: Pages upon pages. That was like.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: It's amazing.

BOLLING: Like 50 minutes of -- I was, it's pretty darn good, K.G.

GUILFOYLE: I said it like that.

BOLLING: At least you saw some fresh ideas.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. I said it was like the Lego movie, the theme song Everything is Awesome. It really got me excited. I felt richer just listening to him, that there's gonna be economic prosperity. I like his business approach. He clearly loves America. I mean, I thought this was a great speech. That's what I love about this country. You can have people like this, success story and now he's putting, you know his hat in. Let's see. I don't know. I think it will be fun.

BOLLING: Isn't he -- Greg, he said he's going to be the greatest jobs president that God ever created.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Most probably created more jobs than most small countries just by the building in New York. What I find interesting about what happened today is the reaction on Twitter and the reaction among the media. A lot of people in the media laugh at Donald Trump. These are the same people who believe Bernie Sanders is relevant. And Sanders, champion as an ideology that contributed to the deaths of millions of people from last century. They find some out, which is weird to me. They find an ideology that is deadly to be romantic. And this is the modern disease. They champion sub version but they demonize and they mock industry. It's a reverse -- it is bizarre to me. It's sad because we do make fun of Donald Trump, even though what -- the interesting thing about this is. Whenever he was talking about issues, he would follow it up with something that he did. Like, I made a website. I made deals. I built a company. He keeps saying I did this, I did this, I did this and the reason why that's so weird is because none of the other candidates are saying that because they didn't do it. So we act, it's funny because it's true.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Right.

GUTFELD: It's funny because he builds things.

BOLLING: And Dana, he was not afraid to take shots at other countries. He took shots to China. He's certainly took shots at Mexico. You heard the comment about they send us not their best, but he said you know, I'm gonna build a wall on that, southern border. I know how to build walls and he said, and they are gonna pay for it.

PERINO: Right. On what planet is that actually true? Eric would you -- do you think you can make.

BOLLING: I -- yes, I'd have it. Has it.

PERINO: Do you think that you can make Mexico pay for a permanent wall.

BOLLING: Here's the thing.

PERINO: Between Mexico and the United States?

BOLLING: Here's the thing what is that.

PERINO: You can do that?

BOLLING: I think the Donald Trump -- yeah.

PERINO: How?

BOLLING: There's no question you can build a wall. You can build a wall.

PERINO: And they're gonna -- you're gonna build a wall and you're gonna make Mexico pay for it.

BOLLING: I'm not the president. I'm not.

PERINO: On what planet could that actually happen?

BOLLING: Oh, I think it could happen. You can.

PERINO: That could happen?

GUTFELD: Planet Trump.

PERINO: You could actually do that? You can make a wall and have another country.

BOLLING: Yeah.

PERINO: Pay for it?

BOLLING: Well, yes, you can. But here's the problem.

PERINO: OK.

BOLLING: You do it slow.

PERINO: How?

BOLLING: One of the ways you do it is you tax them. You cut off.

PERINO: You tax Mexico?

BOLLING: To cut off.

PERINO: The president of the United States.

BOLLING: Yeah, I'm.

PERINO: Is going to tax Mexico to get a wall for the United States of America? I mean, this is -- I'm pointing out the absurdity of a lot of these comments. I get it that he's entertaining. I know that he loves America. I know he's done a lot of great things. He also has done things without ever having to work with 535 members of congress, who actually control the purse strings in America. When you're the president of the United States, you have no money unless the Congress says, here's what you can spend it on. So, you certainly don't have Mexico's money to make them pay for a wall between the two countries.

BOLLING: You can certainly do it through trade restrictions. You may not like trade restrictions and he did.

PERINO: And whose gonna put those trade restrictions on? Congress has to actually pass the trade restrictions. We saw last week, that is not happening with this congress. The realities are, there are -- you can be entertaining and you can be fun. And you can say things that actually appeal to people and you still have to figure out a way to get the 270 electoral votes.

BOLLING: That was -- I don't know.

PERINO: You got to figure out Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina.

BOLLING: President Obama seems to find a lot of ways to do a lot of his programs.

GUILFOYLE: Executive actions. President has.

BOLLING: Executive actions without the Congress approval.

PERINO: Even though -- let me get -- I'll tell -- I'll give you this. Even President Obama has not suggested he could get another country to pay for building a wall between Mexico and the United States.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, but he's too busy apologizing for America all the time to ask, stick it to anybody. That's the problem.

BOLLING: You know there's another way of doing this. Listen, Mexico, you're our number one besides our own pumping of our oil. You're our number one importer of oil. We take more oil from Mexico than any of the country including Canada. We can say you know what, Mexico? We'll do all in Canada unless you want to pay for that wall. There's a way to do it.

PERINO: And you in the energy business, you think that's possible?

BOLLING: I think.

PERINO: In a world market?

BOLLING: What cause this Dana -- here's what I think. I think Donald Trump -- you may not like a lot of the things that Donald Trump said today, but for once we heard something different.

PERINO: But.

BOLLING: We heard a guy.

PERINO: You heard something different than.

BOLLING: Who wasn't afraid to say things --

PERINO: Totally not plausible.

BOLLING: Why.

PERINO: And you just admitted that everything that he said is not plausible.

BOLLING: Now, how did I admit that? Where in the world that I admit that?

PERINO: You think it's possible, for let say, we're not gonna take any more Mexico oil? You gonna actually cut it off in the world market.

BOLLING: Yeah. I think it say.

PERINO: You would say that?

BOLLING: Now here's what we do, Mexico. We're gonna cut your price -- the price we pay for your oil by $2 a barrel for the next 5 years until we pay for the wall. And they can say either, screw you, United States or we try to sell it to somewhere else.

PERINO: You thought -- then sell it to China. And guess who wins?

BOLLING: I don't think so.

PERINO: China.

BOLLING: They all get -- listen, I'm not -- look, look. What all I seem to simply saying is, there are ideas here that we haven't heard before. And for once, it's refreshing to me to hear something different.

GUTFELD: You should be saying that with Rand Paul around, Eric. He's gonna be very upset with you.

BOLLING: What do you talking about? Rand Paul has a lot of big ideas that some of the other candidates do.

GUTFELD: I just want -- I want to make sure you remember Rand Paul.

BOLLING: All right. I don't -- why did they -- you feel like, I'm Donald Trump and they are here today. Juan, take a listen to this. GUILFOYLE: You're gonna be getting a call.

BOLLING: The thought of Donald Trump under the debate stage has to scare some GOP contenders. The man can talk and he made it clear he's gonna go after frontrunners Jeb Bush and Marco Rubio. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TRUMP: Some of the candidates, they went in. They didn't know the air conditioner didn't work. They sweated like dogs. They didn't know the room was too big because they didn't have anybody there. How are they going to beat ISIS? Look at Bush. It took him five days to answer the question on Iraq. He couldn't answer the question. He didn't know. I said, is he intelligent? Then I looked at Rubio. He was unable to answer the question. Is Iraq a good thing or a bad thing? How are these people going to lead us?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: And he also went on to say, how anyone can vote for these guys? So go ahead, Juan, your thoughts on Donald Trump taking shots at Jeb and Rubio.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: This is the candidate from MAD magazine. This is like Alfred E. Newman generally saying I'm running for president and Republicans getting excited, I don't understand. This is the (inaudible) in Republican Party. This is the guy who at one point was pro- choice now he says he's pro-life. This is.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, please.

WILLIAMS: That's what he.

GUILFOYLE: How many -- everybody flips on issues.

WILLIAMS: Oh, oh. Well, he's -- let me tell you. He keeps flipping. That comment about the people from Mexico? Remember he said we shouldn't take any people from Mexico. We should only take European immigrants. This is -- and then he says he has a secret plan to defeat ISIS. He won't say what it is but he say, to will wipe out ISIS in an instant. So I mean basically, if you're running to be.

GUILFOYLE: Maybe he'll tell us on a debate.

WILLIAMS: The head of the clown car, if you're running to say oh, you know what, I'm going to please Republicans because I'll say outrageous things. I demand Obama's birth certificate. What a ridiculous waste of Republican energy.

BOLLING: Juan, Kimberly points out something very important, though, on a debate stage with 10 people up there.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, he'll bully and he'll boast.

BOLLING: Yeah, and.

WILLIAMS: I'm the most successful person to ever run for president. Forget about Thomas Jefferson, so what about that George Washington victory.

BOLLING: So as one of the other candidates, specifically Jeb Bush, he's going to take some shots. He's gonna take some -- they're going to end up going head-to-head on a debate stage. I got to think Jeb's not looking forward to this.

GUILFOYLE: Let me ask you something. What seem he was so afraid of?

WILLIAMS: A comedy show for the Republican Party?

GUILFOYLE: I don't think it's a comedy show.

WILLIAMS: it would be.

GUILFOYLE: I think there's a lot of insubordination (ph) that needs to be discussed.

WILLIAMS: He would insult the intelligence of the Republican voters.

GUILFOYLE: I disagree. WILLIAMS: And have no chance -- let me just say, isn't it like 60 percent of Republicans say they couldn't vote for him?

PERINO: Yes. That is the numbers. Look, 59 percent.

WILLIAMS: I'm sorry.

PERINO: He has the highest negatives of any Republican presidential candidate in the history. Also the other thing is.

GUILFOYLE: But negative can go up depending on how well known you are.

PERINO: I just did a check. I mean, there is.

GUILFOYLE: Name recognition.

PERINO: When people talk about Ben Carson, like what do you think Ben Carson could be president? Look, his path is very difficult. There -- only six presidents, I have a list here of six presidents in our history -- country's history, actually have never previously held elected office. You could -- most of them actually have to be, you know paintings because there weren't cameras back then and we don't include.

GUTFELD: No selfies.

PERINO: Yeah, no selfies. I mean, it is a leap to get there because of the path that I've been talking about. You have to get to 270 electoral votes. You might be able to win popularity but that's like cotton candy, it melts on contact. If you aren't gonna be willing to go shake the hands in Iowa, to figure out how to win New Hampshire or even be in South Carolina, you are not going to win the path to the presidency. It's just reality.

BOLLING: You want to weigh in on this one?

GUTFELD: Well, yeah. You know what I -- about the debates, there is some advantage that Trump will have because when he gets up there and there's a dozen people, he immediately makes Santorum and Rand look like apprentices. He is gonna be Donald Trump up there.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: And those guys are all going to be sitting there going oh, there's Trump and they're gonna fall into this kind of thing that America is used to, which is Donald Trump looking at them, that's not going to work. That's not going to work, Rand. You're fired. And everybody is going to laugh and he's going to get a lot of applause.

PERINO: The candidate in the race most hurt by Trump entering in my estimation it is Rand Paul because Rand Paul is different, unique, has a lot of appeal to across voters and Donald Trump getting in sucks that energy out of the room.

BOLLING: You don't think Donald Trump hurts Carly Fiorina the most because she has the business background?

PERINO: I think debatable, but I.

BOLLING: She's also looking for that -- person on it.  

PERINO: But she's unique in other ways.

BOLLING: Elected office.

PERINO: She's unique in other ways and she also has accomplishments in business. I think for Rand Paul, for a unique person that was in the race with crossover appeal, I think that Donald Trump hurts him the most.

GUTFELD: There's one more plus I'll throw in for Donald. A lot of the candidates are talking about their rough upbringing. You know like oh, I was from this, I was from that. He's does the -- he's the opposite of that. He's like, these are -- I'm awesome. Everything he says is I'm awesome.

BOLLING: Why do you say that? This is a perfect transition to this. A good friend of mine summed up the speech perfectly, quote, "He's an ego maniac."

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

BOLLING: "So fool of himself. He's awesome." Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think I am a nice person. People that know me like me. Does my family like me? I think so, right? I'm using my own money. I'm not using the lobbyists. I'm not using donors. I don't care. I'm really rich. I'll proud of my net worth. I've done an amazing job. I don't have to brag. I don't have to, believe it or not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: OK. I wanna.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: This is beyond.

BOLLING: OK, go ahead.

WILLIAMS: Self-involved and egotism, don't you think? It's an exercise in like.

BOLLING: I don't know.

WILLIAMS: His ego just on fire.

BOLLING: I don't know. GUTFELD: But wait a second.

PERINO: That is so fun.

WILLIAMS: And it's entertaining.

GUTFELD: But you know what? He never said he was gonna stop the rising ocean.

WILLIAMS: No, but I mean.

GUTFELD: Somebody did.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: But let me just say.

GUTFELD: Somebody did. His name rhymes with Barack.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

GUTFELD: Hussein Obama.

WILLIAMS: Well.

GUTFELD: And that's his real name.

WILLIAMS: That's -- OK. Well, if that is.

GUILFOYLE: Unclear.

WILLIAMS: If he's really born in the country according to Trump, but I'm saying, this has no connection to reality. That's it say, it's not good for the GOP. I'm kind of amazed that you guys did hear (ph).

BOLLING: I think it's refreshing. I'm glad to see someone else step up and say and say, you know what, screw China. We're going to go after China. I'm not worried about the trillion dollar debt they owe because they need us as much as we need them.

GUILFOYLE: I will tell you something.

BOLLING: I love his frankness.

GUILFOYLE: You can say what you want. He made a lot of money.

BOLLING: His bold in his face on bashers (ph).

GUILFOYLE: He's created a lot of jobs in this economy. I think it.

WILLIAMS: Yes, and he's daddy.

GUILFOYLE: You can't fault him on that.

WILLIAMS: And his daddy gave him.

GUILFOYLE: He's not afraid.

WILLIAMS: Everything in the world.

GUILFOYLE: I'm almost done, Juan. He's not afraid to answer a question. He has ideas. He has passion, enthusiasm. He's not gonna be afraid or intimidated to debate people. I want everybody to bring their best, their A-game when they're up there on the stage. I want to hear what he has to say. Plenty of people I know were very enthusiast (ph) about what he said and I bought into Trump building and made money.

WILLIAMS: Oh, my God.

GUILFOYLE: But it is true. He's not a good friend, who else could it?

WILLIAMS: Well, here's the thing for me. If you said to me, you know what Rush Limbaugh should run for president. You know what? Michael Savage should run for president. I'd say come on, Kimberly. What is this about? Are we running for talk show host, conservative right wing talk show host and that was this about?

BOLLING: Can I just ask Dana, something? Dana.

PERINO: That was 2012.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Had Mitt Romney embraced his success and his money, the way Donald Trump is doing right now, would things have turned out differently for him?

PERINO: Probably not.

BOLLING: Why not? I just.

PERINO: Because I do not think.

BOLLING: I think this is one of the biggest --

PERINO: You can have that fantasy. It's actually not reality.

BOLLING: But he's always trying to play down his wealth.

PERINO: Let me give you a couple of positives. I think what makes our country great again is a very good slogan. That's hope and change, but more specific and it's specifically directed to last eight years, perhaps even last 16 years is how he's going to look at that. I also think that he is a very nice person. People who know him personally like him very much. But I will also tell you, people say that about Hillary Clinton. One of the things the Democrats will say is that, hope you don't meet her. But guess what, you're going to like her. People that meet him personally, now if he's willing to go and do the work and he's gonna leave New York City and leave Trump tower and go to Iowa and shake some hands and in New Hampshire, and if he's actually going to be willing to do that work, he could probably win over some folks.

WILLIAMS: You know, he's gonna be on the debate stage because of just that.

PERINO: Name I.D.

WILLIAMS: He came into the Fox building.  

PERINO: Not because he's shaking hands. WILLIAMS: No, no, no, but because he's a nice person and he has name I.D. He came into the Fox building the other day and came over and said hello to me. And you know what, the people who work in this building, the people who let us in, the people who clean the building.

GUTFELD: Right.

WILLIAMS: Flock to him.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: By the way, that's an interesting point that transcend.

PERINO: That Charisma.

GUTFELD: There's something about Trump that transcends race. If he walks down the street, it doesn't matter what color the person is.

WILLIAMS: You got it.

GUTFELD: They go, there's Donald and I want to be him. I want to be as rich as that guy, doesn't matter if it's the janitor or the doorman.

GUILFOYLE: Enough for nothing. BOLLING: It wouldn't be nice if the whole country.

GUILFOYLE: His kids, his family, they love him.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

GUTFELD: That's your easiest audience.

PERINO: Well then, I mean, you can say that.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: What candidate would not be true well?

GUTFELD: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: Plenty of people have issues with their.

PERINO: I mean, in every candidate is you have a saying like, my family loves me, I hope.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: At least there were refreshing.

GUILFOYLE: No, but they really, actually do. He's -- good job.

PERINO: Like you -- like, who -- which candidate in the race don't love their -- dad?

GUILFOYLE: I can't speak to all of that.

GUTFELD: That's a great issue, though. OK, listen.

GUILFOYLE: But I know his kids. That's my point.

PERINO: (inaudible) are not running.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: Can I just throw a second here?

PERINO: Yes.

BOLLING: President Obama has always shunned the idea that Americans are exceptional of our wealth.

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: It always two step back. Donald Trump says.

WILLIAMS: Oh, boy. BOLLING: We're going to bring back wealth. Look, is there going to be a President Trump?

GUILFOYLE: What kind of like.

BOLLING: It's probably not likely.

GUILFOYLE: But like Reagan.

BOLLING: My wife said it's gonna be Jeb Bush, I get that. But it's nice to see fresh ideas.

GUTFELD: You know what I noticed, though, on the speech? He did ISIS, Obamacare, immigration, Bowe Bergdahl. He did The Five rundown.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: And on his last word, one more thing.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly.

BOLLING: They're yelling at me right now literally, on my ears. Sorry guys our reporters are (inaudible).

All right, some must-see TV tonight on the Fox News channel. Donald Trump for the hour on Bill O'Reilly.

PERINO: Oh, my, gosh.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: And the 10 p.m. Eastern.

PERINO: Wash my hair.

BOLLING: Jeb Bush for the full hour on Hannity. Those are two must-see hours. All right, ahead. The former NAACP leader accused of lying about her race, addresses the controversy over her skin color. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: On MSNBC, whatever that is, Michael Eric Dyson said Rachel Dolezal is blacker than Clarence Thomas. Roll it, Francine.

GUILFOYLE: And you can't make that --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL ERIC DYSON, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: You know those of us who talk about race as a social construct, that it is more complicated. Bill Clinton is the first black president, though, he didn't try to he was black. It means that, she may be not African-American, but she certainly could be black in a cultural sense. She's taken on the ideas, the identities, the struggles, she's identified with them. I bet a lot more black people would support Rachel Dolezal than would support, say, Clarence Thomas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Awesome. He just admitted that ideology is a skin color. To him a white communist is blacker than a black business owner. By this logic, Dyson is whiter than Vanilla Ice. See once you accept identity cross-dressing, we can all play along. Even Kareem Abdul-Jabbar said, let Rachel be black. Never mind that she once sued a black college for discrimination because she was white or that she was always the victim of alleged hate crimes. If she lies about race is she lying about that?

But I thank Rachel. By exposing the limits of identity politics, she reveals the absurdity of those who cling to it. I think, therefore, I am does not apply to pigment. For one cannot claim experiences one never had. Rachel didn't grow up as a black child. Rachel pulled a racial Rosy Ruiz. That's the woman who hopped in at the last mile to win the Boston Marathon. Rachel simply cut to the finish line of the identity marathon. She hoped to illicitly gain from a lifetime as a black woman, which is the ultimate left-wing sin -- cultural appropriation. Wear an Indian head dress at a concert. Have burritos at a college exchange. Activists will call you racist for incorporating other cultures. If so, then Rachel's black persona must be the worst form of white privilege. And I say that as a snake charmer from the Telugu community of Sri Lanka.

Howard -- this --

BOLLING: Howard?

GUTFELD: Juan, Howard University. She sued Howard University.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: Claiming she was discriminated in favor of blacks. They removed her to the arts.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

GUTFELD: And she said that is because of black students. How could Dyson or anybody say this is OK? She's using race to further her career.

WILLIAMS: One way or the other.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: What's astounding to me is to hear people make excuses for mental disorder. At some point this woman's troubled.

GUTFELD: Right.

WILLIAMS: Right, OK. OK, you can say I have sensitivity and compassion. But look, clearly, this is a troubled person who has tremendous psychological issues and he wants to put some kind of construct on it to excuse it. The fact is when she was pretending at one point she says, I'm being discriminated against as a white person that was when she filed.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: Suit against Howard. Now she's being discriminated against as a black person. She can't even deal with reality and yet, she wants to appeal to others to behave on a moral basis like -- to achieve justice? How can you say that when you have no integrity? She has zero zilch.

GUTFELD: And Dyson is enabling this sickness. Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

GUTFELD: She has claimed she was victim of hate crimes including a letter that was sent to her. When they investigated the letter, they found out it ended up in her P.O. Box without a time stamp.

GUILFOYLE: Correct.

GUTFELD: Which meant -- it was placed in there. They don't presume any of the hate crimes.

GUILFOYLE: That's what they said. The person that put it in the box had to have had the key.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Sorry about that claim, big fat lie. So this is a huge problem. She's actually doing a disservice to black people, to African- Americans and she was poaching off of the things that she was trying to get that they could have been getting legitimately like scholarships and advantages that are supposed to be there to help people. I mean, it's really awful. Why are they defending this? You talk about, OK, mental illness. I don't know. But -- what I do see for sure is lying.

WILLIAMS: Well, she said to it.

GUILFOYLE: Lying.

WILLIAMS: She said at one point she was born in a Tipi.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: Well.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: And like, you know used a bow and arrow when they cling -- that's also a lie.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Your parents wrong with you.

GUTFELD: But learned from Elizabeth Warren.

WILLIAMS: But I think the thing is that somehow on the left, there are people like Dyson or Jabbar who want to somehow say oh, it's OK. You have a problem -- you had a problem at home.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: Or you have had a tough childhood.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: And therefore, your bad behavior.

GUILFOYLE: And her brother tries it too.

WILLIAMS: Is to be tolerated.

GUILFOYLE: It hurts the cause. That's stupidity.

BOLLING: Even worse than that. And Rachel Dolezal, her 15 minutes are almost up and we'll stop talking about her in a couple of days. I'm sure that's going to pass. But for Dyson and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar and Melissa Harris Perry, who are defending her. There's a bigger problem. There's a big problem defending this kind of thing because small business association gives out loans. They give out loans to minorities. They give out loans to women. They give out loans to disabled people. It's a finite amount of money.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: It's not an amplicate (ph).

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: Everyone -- we'll take all commerce.

GUILFOYLE: It's a theft crime.

BOLLING: It's a certain amount of money. Last year, African-American got $388 million. That means that money was for African-American.

GUTFELD: Not for her.

BOLLING: If she comes in and takes some of that 388 mill, whatever, if a bunch of people do it. That's money that African-Americans will not have to create jobs, to start businesses. So all these three -- all the African- Americans who are defending this, you're out of your mind.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

BOLLING: Hurting your own cause...

GUILFOYLE: That's like you applying for a small business loan as a female entrepreneur.

BOLLING: Absolutely.

GUTFELD: I've done that.

GUILFOYLE: That's (inaudible).

GUTFELD: I've done that. I've done that. I want -- Dana, let's roll some footage from The Today Show, where she defended herself.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT LAUER, NBC'S THE TODAY SHOW HOST: Are you an African-American woman?

RACHEL DOLEZAL, FORMER NAACP CHAPTER PRESIDENT: I identify as black.

LAUER: That's a little younger I guess, yeah.

DOLEXAL: I was 16 in that picture.

LAUER: Is she a Caucasian woman or an African-American woman?

DOLEXAL: I would say that visibly, to be identified as white by people who see her.

LAUER: Have you done something to darken your complexion?

DOLEXAL: I certainly don't stay out of the sun, you know and I also don't - - as some of the critics have said, put on black face as a performance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Dana, if you were -- if you decided to come out as Asian, do you know -- would you be treated as compassionately, as so many other people? They would eat you alive because of the ideology.

PERINO: The only way I would be treated compassionately and with love is if I came out as a Democrat.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: I mean that's really the only possible way. And it would take me a lot of like, changing around to make that happen. I think that we should take the left up on it, though, if race is so fluid.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Then we don't need preferences anymore.

GUTFELD: And we don't.

PERINO: I mean if that -- if we can we get back to the purity, then.

BOLLING: Yeah.

PERINO: Of governing?

GUTFELD: Or just be all Americans.

PERINO: Maybe we should take them up on it.

BOLLING: Affirmative action goes out the window.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: No, I mean it's a fraud, but it's a fraud against black people.

GUILFOYLE: But he -- doesn't he?

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: I don't understand why you guys can be defending her.

BOLLING: Right.

WILLIAMS: It's absurd.

GUILFOYLE: It's a theft crime, you know because she's (inaudible). GUTFELD: Identity theft, identity theft.

WILLIAMS: I think it's a real problem. I just -- but it's a shame the left tries to defend it.

GUTFELD: If they're enabling her and she might not be well and that's not right.

WILLIAMS: That's what I say.

GUILFOYLE: Where's Dr. Ablo?

GUTFELD: I don't know.

GUILFOYLE: He can help.

GUTFELD: So much of this.

PERINO: No, that's OK.

GUTFELD: All right, Pot use in legal is legal in Colorado. So should an employer be able to fire you if you smoke a joint outside the office?

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: A high court's ruling next.

GUILFOYLE: The answer to that is yes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: A new setback for pot use in a state where it's now legal. Colorado Supreme Court just ruled an employer can fire a worker for smoking weed off the job. That includes both recreational and medical marijuana.

Now, this ruling stemmed from a case brought by Brandon Coats, who is a medical marijuana user, fired by the Dish Network for failing a drug test in 2010. Here's his reaction to the decision.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRANDON COATS, FIRED FOR USING MEDICAL MARIJUANA: If we're going to allow people to smoke marijuana, are we just not going to allow them to work?

I wouldn't be able to actually work fit if I didn't have it. I would be sitting there going, "Aaa, aaa, aaa." You know, who can work like that? I can't even sleep like that. I want to be able to work one day. You know, I want -- I want society to change for me to be able to work one day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: OK. So admittedly, this is a tough decision and a situation for him personally. Because it seems like it lacks compassion, and it's harsh. Because he is a quadriplegic. He was injured in a horrible car accident. His legs shake, like, convulsively. It makes it very difficult for him to be able to do the work. So he was prescribed, lawfully under state law, medical marijuana to be able to use it. So he was partaking in it, also recreationally, weekends, et cetera. He tested dirty. The employer fired him, as is their right to do so.

Now based on this decision, because it is illegal still under federal law. What else do you have to offer now, people?

BOLLING: And here's the problem. Because the federal -- because the   feds haven't turned it over to the states yet, which shay should do. If that were the case, then Dish couldn't have fired this guy, because in Colorado it's legal. It's not legal in other states. In New Jersey he still could be fired. In Colorado, it's legal. He shouldn't have been fired.

However, the feds are still upholding a federal criminal treatment of marijuana, even though the states -- 20 states...

WILLIAMS: You know, I was (UNINTELLIGIBLE) about this, Eric, because just the point you raise, right? So this is a Colorado state supreme court.

BOLLING: Right.

WILLIAMS: I'm thinking why are they relying on federal law? Because what it said, though, was...

GUILFOYLE: Because federal law takes precedent over state law.

WILLIAMS: OK. Well, in this case, though, they didn't need to. Because the Colorado law that legalized marijuana said that employers don't have to make any exemptions for people who smoke marijuana, that they are free to do this.

GUILFOYLE: That's correct, and that's why this was affirmed. Thank you very much.

WILLIAMS: Well, that's what I'm saying, so I don't -- I don't think it's really about the federal law.

BOLLING: If the federal law wasn't there, K.G., then he wouldn't be first (ph), right?

GUILFOYLE: He wouldn't be able to do it.

BOLLING: Like if he had a beer on the weekend. It's not illegal.

GUILFOYLE: Correct.

WILLIAMS: That's what's ridiculous. That to me that's what's hypocritical...

GUILFOYLE: Like a Corona with a lime.

WILLIAMS: That's what's hypocritical about this. People go have a drink every night. You know, presidents have martinis every night. We don't fire them.

GUILFOYLE: How do you know?

WILLIAMS: How do I know? I know.

GUILFOYLE: You've been there?

WILLIAMS: Jerry Ford? Jerry Ford used to talk about how many martinis he had.

PERINO: I do think that this issue between the feds and the state government on the issue of marijuana is going to come to a head in probably the next election cycle, maybe within those first two years because they are at such tension.

But there is a real issue for -- I don't know what this guy's employer was. But if you are an employer that has a top-secret clearance with the federal government to manufacture airplane parts for the CIA, the top secret clearance requires no marijuana, no drugs. So therefore, the feds actually -- I think that this ruling helps protect those employers from losing major federal contracts.

Now, that could be intention. It could actually get solved. At the moment I think the court was right.

WILLIAMS: Yes, well, since this is going to come to a head in Dana's opinion, we should go to our own local head, Mr. Greg Gutfeld.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

GUTFELD: Oh, I'm with you. Look, when something's on the job, whether you're drinking...

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: ... or smoking pot, you should be fired.

But an off day, you can't punish somebody because they have a different form of oblivion than you do. If having a joint is what makes your life easier and somebody else is a martini, there should be no difference. There's no difference. And there are...

GUILFOYLE: But martinis aren't illegal under federal law.

GUTFELD: We've already been through that. That's why this is a tedious subject. A tedious subject.

BOLLING: Can I throw one -- one little wrinkle in the ruling? They came down and they said, literally, because THC stays in your blood system for up to 30 days...

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BOLLING: ... whereas alcohol kind of gets processed.

GUILFOYLE: Right. So it's still in. Therefore, you test dirty. Therefore, no job. Very sad. Someone hire him.

Coming up, the pope is about to issue a controversial message on climate change, and it's concerning some conservatives in the Catholic community and beyond. We've got it. Details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: On Thursday, Pope Francis will release a letter to Catholic bishops called an encyclical. This is a message that will focus on the environment, and the pontiff is expected to warn the world about climate change.

An Italian magazine has leaked a draft of it. And the pope is reportedly going to declare that global warming is real and partly caused by humans. He'll also call on world governments to work together to fight it.

It's already raising concern among some Catholic conservatives, like Judge Napolitano, who worry about the pope politicizing the issue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JUDGE ANDREW NAPOLITANO, FOX CONTRIBUTOR: Is the pope going to provide the moral basis for what? Regulating the pollutants in the environment? If the pope is going to say Catholics have to get behind the left on global warming, that would be absurd; and it would cause an schism in the church.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: All right, Greg, I think that this is not a surprise that the pope is coming out with this...

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: ... encyclical. And he's been sort of inching that way up to this. And I do believe that global warming believers and supporters are hoping that the pope will be able to convince skeptics to just go along with the program.

GUTFELD: The most dangerous person on the planet is somebody who's seeking strange new respect from their adversaries. And that is what the pope is doing. He doesn't want to be your grandfather's pope. He wants to be a modern pope. All he needs is dreadlocks and a dog with a bandanna, and he could be on Occupy Wall Street.

Meanwhile the media will focus on the right and go, "How are conservative Catholics going to deal with climate change apostles?" But you've got to turn that over and go, "How is the media going to deal with a pope who is against gay marriage, strongly against gay marriage; still against condoms. He's pro-life, and he doesn't want female priests."

So all the people that are claiming to embrace the pope are actually ignoring the intolerance that they so claim to condemn among the conservatives. So you see, this is rather confusing for this pope.

And also he came out -- the "Charlie Hebdo" attacks, what did he say?  He criticized the cartoonists.

BOLLING: Excuse me. Can I move a little further?

GUTFELD: I'm not a...

BOLLING: I'm coming over to the religious side.

GUILFOYLE: We can tell. This is where God lives, on this end of the table.

GUTFELD: No, no, no, no. I'm not a fan of the pope speaking out -- not for religious reasons but for ideological reasons he is an Malthusian. He is in bed with Malthusians.

GUILFOYLE: These words are too big.

GUTFELD: No, he believes that the earth -- that the earth is overpopulated. And remember when he said Catholics have to stop breeding like rabbits? Do you remember where that came from? That's a Malthusian belief. And Malthusians believe that the earth is overpopulated. And it would be nice if there are a few billion people left. How does that happen? Global warming.

GUILFOYLE: I'm sorry. You just over-talked, and now you have no monologue tomorrow! That's it.

PERINO: Cap-and-trade on your time.

GUILFOYLE: Honestly.

GUTFELD: I apologize. No "One More Thing."

PERINO: Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: What's next? "Green Eggs and Ham"?

PERINO: K.G. Can't one be concerned about global warming and also be skeptical of the solutions so far put forward by the world governments that he wants us to support?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I think he can. But obviously, he's really stepping into very, very difficult political waters here by exerting his opinion and his influence. And I think this is going to be problematic, you know, for Catholics and believers. They may not go with this at all.

PERINO: I don't think it's actually going to matter that much to Catholics, Eric. What do you think? This is not the biggest issue on the Catholics' brain.

BOLLING: Well, maybe not to the United States Catholics. It may be important to developing nations Catholics, because they're the ones, after all, the United States and the other developed countries are the ones who are going to support some of the pope's initiatives. He's against cap-and- trade. He thinks that's a bad idea, because it would cause undue speculation.

But he is looking for the wealthier countries to pony up and get involved, and that would cost businesses a lot. The biggest issue with this -- and by the way, the pope, you're the man. I love you.

PERINO: Actually, Eric only.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Eric.

BOLLING: E-r-i-c.

PERINO: Eric, is this time point that he's not the man?

BOLLING: Right. What I'm -- because I don't like Bob Costas weighing in on guns, I hate the idea that the pope is weighing in on this, especially because...

GUILFOYLE: That's what we mean by Catholics not weighing in.

BOLLING: ... he's against fossil fuels. Fossil fuels provide cheap fuel for people who are poor.

PERINO: In poverty.

BOLLING: Right. And to move away from that before it's time could hurt them.

WILLIAMS: Well, he didn't -- he spoke to that, Eric. He said, "Wait a second." He believes in renewable energy. But he doesn't say you have to move right away. He said, in fact, you may have to stay with some fossil fuel.

But let me just say, Greg, in response to you, popes have been talking about this issue since the '70s. This is not the first time.

GUTFELD: Well, they've always been wrong.

WILLIAMS: They haven't been wrong. And I think the problem for you is that you put it in a box of pure politics, left and right. And the right are going to doubt this. And the left suggest and celebrate.

What about if the pope is simply saying, "Hey, you know what? This is God's creation. This is a green earth. And you know what? We should do all we can to support God's green earth." Is that so radical?

GUILFOYLE: To love up Mother Earth.

WILLIAMS: Is that some leftist idea?

GUTFELD: He has a Marxist background.

WILLIAMS: Oh, my God. Here we go. Well, he's from Argentina, and he's a southern pope.

GUTFELD: I'm sorry. I mean, I know he's, you know, a big guy. But...

WILLIAMS: Is that a bad idea, to care about the earth?

PERINO: He's only a man to you and not to him.

GUILFOYLE: Somebody bring in some holy water. I'm feeling...

WILLIAMS: Hold up a cross.

PERINO: OK.

GUILFOYLE: Bless ourselves.

GUTFELD: What did I do? I didn't -- I criticized his beliefs.

PERINO: I think you're good. I'm all right. OK.

Do you have bad body language?

GUILFOYLE: Greg does.

GUTFELD: I do now.

PERINO: You're about to find out next.

GUILFOYLE: Greg does.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: You can tell a lot about a person by their body language. And making use of any of the following mistakes are you guilty? According to Forbes.com, here are some things to avoid.

Slouching. It can indicate you lack confidence or self-esteem. Greg is already talking about this. A weak handshake. No one likes those, and it could signal lack of authority. Folded arms. It can give the impression you are closed off to others.

And here's another one. Not making eye contact. It signals deception, lack of respect.

So what about this, Greg? Because I've seen you go like...

GUTFELD: You know what I was just thinking? Slouching was the smartest person I've ever met in my life -- well, I never met him. William F. Buckley spent 90 percent of his life on TV like this. Remember how he used to do like -- so tell me something, Mr. Saul. He'd be like this. Or he was down like this. But he was brilliant.

By the way, I don't care about body language. I care about real language. Like manners. Like I'm tired of going into restaurants and feeling like when somebody's polite to you, you have to be thankful. Why can't people just be polite?

PERINO: Be polite.

GUTFELD: Good manners, America.

WILLIAMS: Well, wait a second, Dana. What's wrong with being polite? What's wrong with eye contact, a firm handshake, not slouching?

PERINO: I love all that.

WILLIAMS: What?

PERINO: All that's great.

WILLIAMS: Yes. So? I thought you were agreeing -- I thought you were saying yes to Greg when he said he doesn't care about...

PERINO: No, I was saying yes that that was how William F. Buckley used to conduct interviews when he did the debates.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Which every young person should go watch on YouTube right now. It will make you much smarter.

WILLIAMS: So Eric, do you fidget?

BOLLING: No, but Kimberly says I look down a lot.

GUILFOYLE: It's terrible.

PERINO: Really?

GUILFOYLE: I find it so unnerving. And I'm watching him, and he's always like -- he's going like this. BOLLING: I do this. I know I do this a lot. I make a point.

PERINO: You get your point and then you nail it down.

BOLLING: Yes. And apparently...

GUILFOYLE: You nail it down a lot.

BOLLING: ... I'm confident in the point I'm making.

WILLIAMS: Well, no, but the problem at this table is, like I'll be doing a test read. You know, like give me a run through so I can read. Everybody at this table is talking. They're fidgeting.

PERINO: Wait. Did you turn this "E" block into something about you? It's supposed to be about the folks.

WILLIAMS: OK, OK. But what about -- what about glancing at the clock? You're talking to somebody, and they're looking over your shoulder to see what time it is, because they've got better things to do?

GUILFOYLE: It's time to go. It's time to go.

WILLIAMS: Yes, but what does that say?

PERINO: You can tell by the appetizer if this is not working out.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I'm like, no.

GUTFELD: No one uses a clock. They do this now.

PERINO: She always is texting me, like, "Can you call me right now and say I have an emergency? Get me out of this date?"

I'm sitting at home by myself? Like, "Yes, sure, I can do that."

GUILFOYLE: You're like "Not doing anything."

WILLIAMS: What about people who move into your space when you're talking to them? That's -- I don't like that.

GUTFELD: You've got to give me an example. I know why.

PERINO: ... Everyone does that.

GUILFOYLE: You mean close talkers?

GUTFELD: There's a close walker, close talker who hosts a show.

BOLLING: Name?

GUTFELD: Not saying.

GUILFOYLE: I know. I know.

PERINO: Weekday or weekend?

WILLIAMS: You guys. You are trouble. "One More Thing" up next.

PERINO: Who is it?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: All right. Time for "One More Thing." Dana, you're up first.

PERINO: All right. A disgruntled ex-staffer named Todd Bosnich, who accused former Republican congressional candidate Carl DeMaio -- you might remember him. I talked about him a little bit. He was a San Diego Republican. He was openly gay, running for Congress, very close race in San Diego.

Right before the election, there was a guy named Todd Bosnich, this guy who just pled guilty in federal court for lying about smearing the reputation of DeMaio by claims of sexual harassment. This happened two weeks before the election. It was the left's intent all along to try to smear Carl DeMaio. They used terrible tactics.

And now this guy is possibly facing up to 20 years in prison. And CNN was called on by DeMaio to correct the record. They kind of sort of did it yesterday. It's not good enough. And I'll tell you that the left, you better get with the program and knock it off with the attacks against people's sexuality.

BOLLING: Very good. All right, Greg, you're up.

GUTFELD: All right. It's time for this.

GUILFOYLE: Excellent.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: "What the Heck is That?" Question mark.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

All right. Let's roll this tape, and we're going to go around the table. And I want you guys to figure out what exactly this is. I'll go around. I'll start with you, Kimberly. No, it's not an ex-husband. But what is it? Could it be somebody from your past?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. I hope it's not someone from my future! God! Help me! Is that an manatee?

GUILFOYLE: No, it's not a manatee.

WILLIAMS: Is it a jellyfish?

GUILFOYLE: It's a big one.

GUTFELD: It's not a jellyfish.

PERINO: Caspar fish?

GUTFELD: No, please. What do you think it is?

BOLLING: Peanut-butter fish.

GUILFOYLE: Portuguese man of war.

GUTFELD: No. It's actually, Kathy Griffin. No, it's a rare cephalopod, which is a...

PERINO: I was going to say that.

GUTFELD: It's a little baby octopus at the Monterey Bay Aquarium.

WILLIAMS: Is it pink?

GUTFELD: Yes. We're getting married next week. Yes. Tastefully in Vermont.

GUILFOYLE: Eww.

All right. OK. Who likes the limbo? Who likes a limbo champ? I do. So she's had the world's record, "Guinness World Book of Records" for the lowest limbo for a female since September 16, 2010, and that was when she did it with Regis and Kelly.

GUTFELD: She should work at Jiffy Lube.

GUILFOYLE: So she did this under the SUV. I kind of wanted to try this, but now I'm a little bit scared. But I like her outfit. How cool is it?

She goes, "I'm just so emotional about getting underneath it. The clearance is around nine inches. But certain parts are lower than others. It took a lot of concentration and controlled breathing.

I relate to you.

BOLLING: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

GUILFOYLE: What did you say?

BOLLING: You might get stuck.

GUILFOYLE: Under the car?

BOLLING: We'll move on.

WILLIAMS: We'll move on.

BOLLING: All right. My favorite baseball team, the St. Louis Cardinals, they have the No. 1 record in all of Major League Baseball. Did you hear what happened today?

PERINO: What?

BOLLING: The FBI is investigating -- investigating them for hacking into Houston Astros' database, looking into some of their minor league players and maybe some of their trades.

PERINO: Wow.

BOLLING: I have no idea what this is about. But boy, this could end up being a big...

PERINO: Is Tom Brady on that team?

BOLLING: No. Not Deflategate, not Spygate, Signgate.

GUILFOYLE: Didn't there used to be a Houston Astro guy named -- a pitcher named Lemon Jello?

BOLLING: It's a drink.

WILLIAMS: All right.

GUILFOYLE: No, not Limoncello.

WILLIAMS: So on Sunday guess what? Rafi, my son, came back from "Hate not Hillary" and time to go to Nationals Park. And this is a video of me taking batting practice at Nationals Park on Sunday.

PERINO: You go.

WILLIAMS: And I'm raking them, knocking them out of there. This was so much fun. And then guess what? I got to go and pitch in the bull pen. Here I am pitching in the bull pen. And then I went into the visitors' locker room.

GUILFOYLE: Wow!

WILLIAMS: And holding up a base and a ball.

GUILFOYLE: Nice pecs.

BOLLING: Yes.

WILLIAMS: This was a great time. Thank you, Washington Nationals, my favorite team forever.

GUILFOYLE: You should talk about how awesome he was.

BOLLING:  We've got to go. That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

Content and Programming Copyright 2015 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2015 Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.