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Kelly File

How Obama plans to diversify wealthy neighborhoods; Mitt Romney talks 2016, Obama's ISIS strategy

This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," June 11, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight. The man who changed your health care system forever is now pushing to change your neighborhood. That is if Uncle Sam feels it is not inclusive enough.

Welcome to "The Kelly File," everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly. The Obama administration called it a plan to diversify neighborhoods and promote fair housing choice. Critics say, this is the most radical politically explosive change President Obama has attempted in his six-plus years in office. Calling it social engineering of the worst kind. The Feds now want to take billions in housing grant money and condition it on communities proving that they are sufficiently inclusive and diverse. They want to look around the area you live and decide if your town is diverse enough. If not, the Feds will order low-income housing or else much of your federal funding for your town will dry up. Experts say this is more than an attempt to change the way America's neighborhoods look. It may also be an attempt to change the way they vote.

Joining us now, nationally syndicated radio host, Richard Fowler and FOX News contributor and former chief presidential speechwriter to George W. Bush.

Marc Thiessen, we begin tonight with Mark. And so, Mark, this is being described as something that President Obama has had in the works for years. But has only now found the guts to actually put out there as a housing and urban development proposed final rule because his term is almost done and this is the time to do it. The last thing on the list. Change the neighborhoods.

MARC THIESSEN, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Absolutely. Look. This is what happens when you take a community organizer and put him in the White House. He wants to organize your community from Washington, D.C. I mean, this is an insidious idea. What they're trying to do is engage in social engineering of local communes from Washington, D.C. They'll going to take data and collect data on the racial makeup, social makeup, economic makeup of communities and then either bribe or blackmail them into changing their zoning policies. I mean, this is a fundamental assault on freedom, on local government, on the principles that this country was built on.  

KELLY: They don't want, quote, "unequal neighborhoods." Unequal neighborhoods. They think too many communities are too white, too privileged with too big mcmansions, too many big mcmansions and they want to diverse it by the communities whether the communities want it or not.  

THIESSEN: Well, you know, the way to diversify communities, we believe in diversifying communities, too, as conservatives. The way you do that is through economic opportunity. The way you do that is you create opportunities for people at the bottom of the economic ladder to afford housing in these communities. It's not by building more affordable housing in the affluent communities. It's by helping more Americans afford housing in affluent communities. And right now the problem is, if that people at the bottom and the Obama economy can't get ahead. The reality is --  

KELLY: But wait. But what they're saying is that the way you live, what your town looks like, the racial makeup of it, the opportunity that is there has a real effect on families and that they're saying, too often families of color live in downtrodden socio economically depressed cities whereas the whites live in these affluent suburbs around those cities and that it's having a real negative effect on the families of color. And much in the same way affirmative action is meant to lift up those families of color by giving them more of a running start and starting from stop, this is supposed to do the same in a neighborhood.

THIESSEN: Yes. But the problem isn't the affluent communities. It's downtrodden communities and the policies that have created those downtrodden communities. I mean, we have talked a lot on this show about Baltimore. Right? And the reality is that people who are living in depressed areas of Baltimore, it's not because they're not living in affluent area, communities of Baltimore because there's racism in the zoning boards. They're living there because they don't have opportunity. They don't have jobs, they don't have hope. They're stuck in failing public schools. In Baltimore African-American young men have a 37 percent unemployment rate. You're not going to move into an affluent neighborhood if you don't have a job or if you don't have an education. So the problem is not that these communities are keeping people out. Is that, our system is keeping these people down by not giving them jobs and opportunities.  

KELLY: What is going to happen? This rule passes, they go in, they take a look at how your community looks, how white is it? How, you know, diversified is it, how rich is it? And it doesn't meet with Uncle Sam's approval that they can come in and what? If low-income housing, which is controversial because sometimes that can lower the housing values in a community that, you know, they weren't anticipating it. And what -- I mean, what else? What would it look like?

THIESSEN: It's not going to happen. I think because there's going to be a massive revolt in this country against this. I mean, this is just such an assault on what we stand for as a country, to have Washington, D.C. coming in to local communities zoning and housing. Those are local decisions that local communities make. That's not the job of the Department of Housing and Urban Development to micromanage thousands and thousands of municipalities and say, there needs to be Affordable Housing here and needs to be Affordable Housing there.  

KELLY: So, okay. But it looks like they'll going to try to push this through as a rule and the question I have for you is, how does it play in 2016 politics?

THIESSEN: It's going to be very important in 2016 politics for a couple of reasons. Number one, because the person who's implementing this, you know, Julian Castro, the HUD secretary is on everybody's short list to be Hillary Clinton's vice presidential nominee.  

KELLY: Ah.  

THIESSEN: So he -- if he gets tapped to be Hillary's running mate, this is going to be a very, very central issue and secondly because right now what they're going to do if this rule goes through and it's not block by Congress, they'll going to start collecting the data first before they can implement it. It's not going to get implemented under Barack Obama. The next president is going to implement it. So, this is a major issue. Is Hillary Clinton going to reengineer your community? If she is elected president --

KELLY: And she's going to say, the Republicans are against communities of color. She's going to say  

THIESSEN: That's exactly what the --  

KELLY: White flight, those folks who pursued white flight want it to stay that way and they don't want people of color moving in next towards to them, and that's racist and discriminatory.

THIESSEN: That's very important point to make and this is why Republicans have to be very careful how they handle this. Because they want to portray Republicans as the party of the rich, who want to protect the white suburbs against people of color and poverty coming into their neighborhoods. We need to make clear that we want -- our principle is every American, of every race creating color should be able to live wherever they want and we need to create opportunities so they afford to live wherever they want.  

KELLY: This is a fascinating issue and it's very interesting that this is apparently one of President Obama's prize issues and he's saved it until now. Thanks, Marc.  

THIESSEN: Thanks, Megyn.  

KELLY: Richard Fowler is with us as well. Richard, your thoughts on whether, first of all, this is an attempt in any way to manipulate the way cities vote, the voting makeup.

RICHARD FOWLER, NATIONALLY SYNDICATED RADIO HOST: I don't think that's the case at all here. I think what this President is trying to do is trying to really truly create opportunity for all. Now, let's talk about the facts. The fact number one is there is more Caucasians on section eight housing than African-Americans or Latinos. Right? So, we're talking about Howie Kurtz --  

KELLY: Opponents are trying to help families of color. I mean, it's not --

FOWLER: No, I think they're trying to help all families. Not just families of color --  

KELLY: Right. Lower socio economically situated families --  

FOWLER: No, no, no, I think --

KELLY: -- but they are focused on helping communities of color which is a good thing but they're open about that -- who they're trying to help.  

FOWLER: Well, here's the thing. When you have more diverse communities like right here on our nation's capital where you have Caucasian families living next to African-American families, living next to Latino families, and living next to poor families and rich families, what you have is you have a more diversity not only ideas but you also create better working places and better living situations for our young people. Right? Young people begins to grow up and get to understand culture and diversity.  

KELLY: Right. But that happens organically, right? I mean --  

(CROSSTALK)

FOWLER: That makes them better -- economy.

KELLY: That's not controversial. What's controversial is government designed equal neighborhoods. They're talking about unequal, un-inclusive neighborhoods.

FOWLER: This is not the first time we have seen the federal government take steps in this direction. The other one that comes to mind is Brown versus the Board of Education when the government said, segregation in schools and have -- segregation is not a good idea and we have to do everything in our power to break that down and then breaking that down is what's made America a better place today. And I would argue that's why we have an African-American president.  

KELLY: Okay. So, your position is that -- okay, so your position is that even though any African-American can move into any community, really, what stops you from moving into a community is money. Generally. Right? I mean, I didn't grow up in a fancy neighborhood. I wanted to be in one. But we couldn't afford it. And then, you know, when I got to be an adult, I made more money and now I live in a nice neighborhood. It's a nice home. You know, the neighborhood -- anyway.

(LAUGHTER)

The point is, that's the way it was usually done. It's not like, you must diversify because Uncle Sam feels it's too white or it's too rich.

FOWLER: So here's where I disagree with Marc on one thing. I think the best way to fix it is creating our economic opportunity and this is a way to do that. Now the states and the localities, the municipalities have the ability to reject this money and we have seen this happen in the past.  

KELLY: They can't. They take the federal money --

FOWLER: Yes, they can.

KELLY: -- to help fight blight. No one wants blight.  

FOWLER: I'll give you a great example, Megyn. When we passed the highway bill in this country for the first time, a lot of states decided not take the money because they didn't want to raise the age for smoking. Right? And they took it at their own peril and at their own risk --

KELLY: It's over $3 billion. It's over three billion bucks.  

FOWLER: But the state has the ability to choose or not to choose to take the money. So, if you don't want the federal government controlling how your neighborhoods diversify makeup is, don't take the money.  

KELLY: Don't take the money. If you're so rich, don't take the money.  

FOWLER: I'm pretty sure a lot of municipalities won't take the money. I can name a couple suburbs that probably like, we don't even want it. We just want to stay, you know, the way we are. White ticket fences.  

(LAUGHTER)

KELLY: I was going to try to get the image in my head. Richard Fowler, thanks for being here. I know you don't feel well. We appreciate it.  

FOWLER: Thanks, Megyn.  

KELLY: Well, a critical crossroads tomorrow and the race for the White House, with top contenders from both parties joining Mitt Romney in Utah. The governor is here to outline the stakes.  

And almost one year to the day after the Islamic state captures key cities across Iraq and Syria, the White House is now sending in more troops. One Iraq veteran today issued a very public challenge to the President's plan and he is here with that.  

Plus, reports from the frontlines of this massive manhunt suggest police could be close to catching up to the two killers who escaped from the big maximum security prison in New York. A former inmate from that prison, the so-called party monster, is here with an insider's take on this escape.  

And then Brian Kilmeade another sort of party monster, very different from the first one, is here with a story of a High School principal who shared a 16-word reaction to this viral video and was fired for it.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: Breaking tonight. Almost one year to the day after the Islamic State launched a major campaign to capture key cities across Iraq, the White House is now sending in more troops. The plan is already under fire as too little too late since ISIS has made major gains in the last 18 months or so, including capturing Mosul, Fallujah and was recently Ramadi.

All major cities U.S. troops fought and died to secure before President Obama took office. The terror group has driven tens of thousands from Northern Iraq, kidnapped, tortured and murdered thousands of Iraqi soldiers producing a library of horrific videos and has committed countless beheadings including of Americans James Foley, and Steven Sotloff. All this and they still have an estimated 31,000 fighters on the battlefields of Iraq and Syria which is about double their number from just last September. When President Obama admitted about ISIS, quote, "we don't have a strategy yet." This week, the President appeared to double down saying, even today, quote, "we don't have a complete strategy." And we are sending in another 450 ground troops, mostly to equip and train the Iraqis. The President's plan was met with some skepticism.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD ENGEL, NBC NEWS: The U.S. military fought for about a decade with hundreds of thousands of ground troops. It's hard to see how a few hundred noncombat troops are going to make much of a difference.  

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Clay Hanna served in the army from 2003 to 2008. He fought in Ramadi. Now under ISIS control and he got a lot of attention today for an open letter to the White House calling Mr. Obama's idea a, quote, "hopeless mission." Clay, thank you for being here. Why do you say that hopeless mission?

CLAY HANNA, IRAQ WAR VETERAN: Hi, Megyn, thank you for having me. Well, I think that this is fundamentally a leadership problem that the administration has had throughout this conflict. The rhetoric has simply not matched the reality on the ground and the administration and the President have not been clear with the American people or with our troops about -- as to what the situation is, what the plan is, and how we're going the achieve our objectives in the Middle East.

KELLY: When you write this letter to the President, you're not pressing him to go in guns blazing into Iraq. You're saying, make a real choice and then stand behind it.

HANNA: Correct. Yes. I think that this whole debate that we've been having has been centered around the wrong question. We've been discussing a lot of tactics and whether we should escalate and whether we should embed troops. Deeper into Iraqi units. And whether we should push out observers further in the field. The real question should be, is this in our strategic interest to be in Iraq? Is it in our strategic interest to defeat ISIS? And is there a moral imperative to defeat ISIS?

KELLY: What do you think President Obama's answers to those questions are?

HANNA: I don't know. That's -- that's a big part of the question. I think he does have an opinion on whether it's worthwhile for U.S. troops to be dying there. So that's -- and that's pretty important. That's why I wrote what I did because I wanted him to make a decision for us. We need leadership and we need him to be willing to tell us what he thinks is the right thing and then stand behind it.  

KELLY: What does that do to troops? I mean, having fought in these cities that now under ISIS control? What is it do to the troops to hear the commander in chief say, we still don't have a strategy?

HANNA: I think that it's probably tremendously frustrating. I know in my own experience in my second deployment I got to Iraq in the fall of 2006 and at that point there was a lot of uncertainty about what the plan was and at one point I believe it was November or October of 2006, we actually had two different scenarios that we were actively working on. One was that we were going to be pushing out further into the city. I was in Baghdad. And the other was we were going to be redeploying out in the desert along the Iranian border. Two totally different missions. And it was very difficult thing to muster the motivation from my troops and for myself, really, and have an explanation for my family as to what I was doing out there, why I was risking my life when we weren't really sure what the plan even was.  

KELLY: Right. And here we are again. Clay, good to see you. Thank you for your service and your time tonight.

HANNA: Thank you, Megyn.  

KELLY: Well, some of the most powerful folks in America are gathered in Utah this weekend to debate where America goes next. Governor Mitt Romney is here exclusively after the break.

Plus, hundreds of police teams are out tonight looking for the two escapees from this prison in Upstate New York. A former inmate from that prison, the so-called party monster, Michael Alig, they made a movie about him, is here with an insider's take on the escape.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: You should just turn yourself in.  

UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I'm getting away with murder. You're just jealous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: A "Kelly File" exclusive tonight on the kickoff of a key event on the road to the White House. For the next few days White House hopefuls and powerful American leaders from both sides of the aisle will get together at the E2 Summit in Deer Valley, Utah. On the GOP side, Senator Rubio, Governor Walker, Governor Christie, Senator Graham, Carly Fiorina and Governor Kasich are just a few of the big names showing up. Also there to talk about the future of American leadership, former Obama adviser David Axelrod, former Defense Secretary Robert Gates and former Treasury Secretary Larry Summers to name a few.

Earlier tonight, I spoke with the host of the event, 2012 republican presidential nominee and former governor of Massachusetts, Mitt Romney. Governor, great to see you tonight. Thank you for being with us.

FMR. GOV. MITT ROMNEY, 2012 GOP PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Thanks, Megyn. Good to join you.  

KELLY: All right. So, what is the purpose of the E2 Summit? Why are you getting all these people together?

ROMNEY: Well, I want people who are in leadership positions, whether in government or in the private sector or in the voluntary sector to learn from one another about the qualities of leadership and to talk about the direction for the country and ultimately some of these people are going to get behind people running for president and a lot of us make as informed a choice as they possibly can.  

KELLY: I love it's bipartisan. Some are calling this the Romney primary. Is somebody going to emerge with the Romney stamp of approval?

ROMNEY: No. No stamp of approval. I'm going to very stay forcefully neutral in this process. And I'm not going to be getting behind anybody who's one of our contenders.  

KELLY: Now, I want to get to the candidates and your thoughts on some of them in a minute but you bring up the topic of leadership and President Obama has come under fire this week for his leadership on the question of ISIS. And has come out publicly and said, we don't have a complete strategy yet. And this is, you know, ten months after he said we don't have a strategy at all. And ISIS has made some major gains. You wanted the job he now holds. You have given it some thought. Do you have any strategy for defeating ISIS?

ROMNEY: Well, of course. And it's certainly not based upon all the informed information that one would have as president of the United States. But you know, I think you have to say on back and say, it's very disappointing, actually disconcerting for the commander in chief to send our 450 men and women into harm's way and tell them at the same time. We don't have a strategy for you to be successful. The right strategy for ISIS I think devise it to two parts. One is the phase one which is to hold ISIS where it is and to concentrate it in one place, keep it from spreading. Phase two is ultimately to defeat it and eliminate it. Phase one to be successful. We have to make absolutely sure that Baghdad will not fall.

That the capital of the Kurdistan region will not fall. We have to also make sure that we pick a city, a symbolic city that we take back. What I say, we, I'm talking about the forces of good here, not ISIS. That we take it back so that we hit them with this pr campaign of theirs and then we have to employ the kind of guerrilla tactics to a certain degree that they employ with night rates and of course with effective kind of bombings which have been pinpointed by people on the ground that are able to identify places to hit. And then where there are new sprouts where ISIS is sprouting off, where in Northern African or other places in the Middle East, we have to send in Special Forces to make sure we stop on those sprouts before they metastasize into something even more dangerous.

KELLY: Do you think this is a real effort, this 450 boots on the ground or do you think this is window dressing?

ROMNEY: Well, I'm sure the President did it with a great deal of reluctance. And the President is going about this backwards. We're putting in a few people here and there without knowing why they're there, what they're supposed to accomplish, what the end game is. Look, we don't send men and women into harm's way unless we understand the mission from the beginning, how we're going to know, whether we've known and how we get out.  

KELLY: Uh-mm. Let me switch back to politics with you for a minute and ask you about Jeb Bush. Some people have said that his donors got a little skittish after he struggled to answer the Iraq question that I asked him and then others followed up and asked him. Do you think that Jeb Bush hurt him with those answers he gave and if so how badly?

ROMNEY: Well, I'm sure he would have liked to have taken it back and get the answer out at the end that he gave and put that at the very beginning and I think he did misunderstand the question. But frankly, look, I think Jeb Bush is in in a very strong position. He's a very capable person. Been an excellent governor. He has assembled a top-rate team and my guess is he's going to raise more money than perhaps all the other contenders combined. So, yes, a candidates makes mistakes. I'm proof of that. And yet those are not terminal in a setting like this. Particularly so early. And I think you have to look and say, he's a pretty impressive guy on a very strong path at this stage.  

KELLY: Speaking of money, "The New York Times" has a big piece on Marco Rubio this week and has financial problems back when he's trying to pay off the student debt. They talked about how at one point, he and his wife and their new child had to move back in with his mother-in-law and they've say, he can't manage his money. In fact, then they said that the Romney team flagged this for you when you're vetting him as a possible VP running mate. Is that true?

ROMNEY: Well, "The New York Times" knows nothing about our vetting process and I'm not going to comment on it but they were wrong to put something like that in their story. The story itself is not a new low for "The New York Times" but it's another low for "The New York Times." This is a guy who was not a wealthy person who had a normal life and made some investment decisions and made some choices which people make. There was nothing wrong with what he did. Nothing illegal with what he did and to try and turn this into some kind of a hit piece was really totally inappropriate. Marco Rubio is a very capable guy. Was a very effective speaker of the House in Florida. Accomplished a lot of things there and has been a very effective United States senator. He is also like Jeb Bush a very serious contender here and "The New York Times" effort to try and diminish him was in my opinion a real disappointment in that institution.  

KELLY: Governor, I have so much more I want to ask you and thankfully you have given me that opportunity and I'm going to take you up on it when I see you in Utah tomorrow night. Thank you for being here with us at the kick-off of the E2 Summit tonight.

ROMNEY: Thanks, Megyn. Good to be with you.

KELLY: And as I mentioned, I will be traveling to Deer Valley tomorrow to conduct an interview with Governor Romney at the summit's keynote event. Our cameras are being allowed exclusively in the room. And we will discuss 2016, foreign policy, Barack Obama and more. We'll have that for you soon.

Well, we are getting reports right now of new leads in the manhunt for two murderers who escaped at a super max prison in New York. A former inmate from that prison, the so-called party monster, Michael Alig is here with an insider's take on how these guys got out. Wait until you hear this.  

Plus, when did America stop being the land of opportunity? Brian Kilmeade is here to explain why the folks at the University of California are arguing you cannot, you may not say that anymore.  

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: Breaking tonight, new leads are narrowing on the manhunt for two murderers who escaped a maximum security prison in upstate New York. Hours ago, authorities announcing that bloodhounds picked up the fugitives' trail and joining us in a moment is Michael Alig, he served nearly two decades behind bars in this same prison for manslaughter, a story told in the movie "Party Monster" starring Macaulay Culkin. First however, Trace Gallagher has the latest on the manhunt. Trace?

TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS LOS ANGELES: And Megyn, apparently the dogs picked up the scent in the town near the prison and followed it into the woods. Investigators believe it's from the escaped killers. And because of the heavy rains, they think this scent is relatively new. In the woods, they also found food wrappers and imprint of a shoe or boot and an imprint on the grass where it appears leaves were used as bedding. Now, that area is described as rugged with a lot of places to hide. But filled with mosquitoes, black flies and ticks and many say it would take some grit to remain there. If Ricky Matt and David Sweat are in there, they appear to be trapped on all sides. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have all of that. We have aircraft. We have canine. We have tons of ground personnel. We're exhausting every single resource that we have at our disposal.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GALLAGHER: Authorities are also searching the seasonal homes near the prison and continue searching the shores of Lake Champlain along the New York Vermont border. So far more than 600 tips have produced zero hard leads. Investigators think the men had help inside and outside the prison. Prison employ Joyce Tilley Mitchell still appears to be the prime suspect. Her cell phone contacted several people who knew Ricky Matt, now it's unclear exactly who made the calls but Mitchell reportedly told police that Ricky Matt made her feel special. And others have said that he is a charming psycho path but there are new reports that some in the prison complained that Mitchell also had a relationship with David Sweat and he was removed from his job in the prison tailor shop. So the bottom line here Megyn is the search continues and the plot truly does thicken.

KELLY: Trace, thank you. Joining us now with more is Michael Alig, Former Dannemora Prison Inmate and the man behind the true story movie "Party Monster" starring Macaulay Culkin, thank you for being here tonight. For people not familiar with your story, what did you go to prison for?

MICHAEL ALIG, FORMER DANNEMORA PRISON INMATE: Manslaughter. I killed a friend of mine who was a drug dealer, an accident in a fight.

KELLY: You killed him in a fight. OK and what year was that?

ALIG: In 1996, December '96.

KELLY: How long were you sentenced for?

ALIG: Ten to twenty years.

KELLY: How long did you serve?

ALIG: Seventeen.

KELLY: OK. Did you get out on parole, did you get out on good behavior? What did you get out for?

ALIG: Both. It's sort of get out on parole for good behavior.

KELLY: When you were at this prison, were you there when these two guys were there?

ALIG: No, no. I might have been. I don't know. I didn't know them.

KELLY: OK.

ALIG: It's a big place so, you know, I wouldn't have remembered them anyway. They're kind of the epitome of every other convict there. I don't think I would have remembered them.

KELLY: Do you think they knew you?

ALIG: Probably. I mean, you know, that's the case everywhere I went.

KELLY: Did you have some infamy even in the prison?

ALIG: I did. The movie sort of followed my reputation sort of preceded me wherever I went when I would walk into the facility, they already knew that I was coming and kind of were waiting for me.

KELLY: Did you spend any time in the wing of the prison where these two guys were which amazingly despite the fact that one had dismembered a man was some sort of honor wing?

ALIG: No, I didn't. I don't know exactly which wing they were on. Nobody ever told me.

KELLY: OK, so when you hear that the latest reports that one of them, in particular, this David Sweat, may have had a relationship of some sort with Joyce Mitchell, a prison employee, and that, in fact, it was investigated within the past year by New York state corrections officials, are you surprised that that could happen?

ALIG: I mean, you may be surprised to hear I'm not surprised but I'm not because, I mean, you know, a lot of these prisons, they're in upstate, kind of the incestuous to people who work there, they're all brother and sister and uncle and family and related in some way and it's not surprising that somebody would get into some kind of trouble like that and be hired again or given the same position over again.

KELLY: Do you think she was targeted?

ALIG: Oh, without a doubt. She was targeted.

KELLY: Why?

ALIG: Because she fixed the psychological profile of the kind of people, the kind of women specifically this these men target. They go after people who have low self esteem and maybe aren't used to receiving compliments or, you know, being chased by kind of sexy men.

KELLY: And you say that when you get into prison, they sort of give you these two books that are sort of prison bible. What are they?

ALIG: The art of seduction and the 38 laws of power and both just evil books that teach you how to manipulate people and how to imitate emotions like love and affection and make somebody really believe that you are falling in love with them.

KELLY: Why do the prisoners think the books are going to be necessary? These guys are serving life sentences.

ALIG: Well, look at they're necessarily obviously if you want to manipulate, you know, officers, female officers or better yet civilians like this woman who worked in the tailor shop or the library or the mess hall, whatever. Coming from small towns and not used to men chasing after them. Some of them the first time they've been chased after by a man like this and it releases the dopamine and the serotonin in their brain and it's kind of like a drug and puts them in a trance.

KELLY: How could they have bore these enormous holes in the concrete walls, through steel, without anybody hearing those loud drills?

ALIG: That isn't surprising to me either. The first thing you notice when you go to prison is that the outrageous noise that's coming at you from all angles and it's sort of like a nightclub, that music blaring until 4:00, 5:00, 6:00 in the morning and it's just unbelievably loud, it's louder than a nightclub. The bars and things shake and rattle its so cloud.

KELLY: Wow. I know you say you're reformed and you're not the same man you were when you took another persons life today.

ALIG: That's true. I mean, I have grown a lot. I mean, supposed to grow a lot in 20 years. You know?

KELLY: A real lot in your case.

ALIG: It is.

KELLY: Thank you for being here.

ALIG: uh-huh.

KELLY: Just ahead, one university's professors are being told they cannot encourage kids to work hard to get ahead. No one should be called a superstar, and no one should say anything about America being great or exceptional. Brian Kilmeade is here to explain why the folks at the University of California have new rules for what you cannot say and which Former Obama Administration Official is telling them that.

Plus, a principal shares a 16-word response to this viral video and he is almost immediately fired from his job as principal. That story is next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: And now to a question getting more and more attention these days. When does your right to free speech become a cause for your boss to fire your bottom? When video of the McKinney, Texas, pool party fight went viral earlier this week, a national debate broke out over the actions of one cop and how he handled the rowdy group of teenagers, in particular a young girl who was refusing to leave. When a Miami area high school principal sided with the cop in the comment in the section comment of an online paper, his bosses decided he had crossed a line. Brian Kilmeade has some thoughts on that. He is the Co-Host of Fox and Friends.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: He is fired as principal for one line. What did he say?

BRIAN KILMEADE, FOX AND FRIENDS CO-HOST: I mean, essentially what he said is the cop had to protect himself and, you know, I back him up for what he did. Now, this cop the next day, you know, this incident happened on Friday. And you know a few days later he decides to resign and his own police chief didn't stand behind him. Having said all that, that's an opinion of one man who thought he wrote anonymously to the Miami Herald and made his comment then afterwards somebody else noticed who it was, said principle. Linked to his Facebook page and then commented how a principal could make a statement like that and the first comment it seems to be from a retired Miami Beach police officer who happened to be black. And the next thing you know, this has gone to the school which is predominantly black where he is a principal, he's been there just one year and then he is gone the same day for making those comments even though we took him down and then apologized to anybody who might have been offended.

KELLY: All he wrote -- he wrote, the cop, he did nothing wrong. He was afraid for his life. I commend him for his actions. It's controversial given what we've seen. However, fire -- we are now living in a day and age where you are not allowed to have a nonpolitically correct opinion. That opinion is his but its not politically correct and therefore he's fired? I mean, people really need to ask themselves whether this is the world in which we want to live.

KILMEADE: I'll tell you something else, it's seven minutes. I watched the whole thing. I know you watched the whole thing. It seemed like the officer overreacted. I didn't see the entire thing, I didn't see him pull, I didn't see him what reacted, I didn't he should've pulled out his gun but I have not been to an academy, I've not been forced to train, I never broke up an out of control pool party. I've seen sometimes I reprimanded kids verbally.

KELLY: You have been at the center of many. Your reputation precedes you, Brian. All right, move on. There's another -- the free speech police out in full force now because out in California and this is interesting, the University of California's office of the president, guess who that is, guess who's running the University of California.

KILMEADE: Janet Napolitano who was once Homeland Security Secretary.

KELLY: She was used to shutting down terrorists and now she's shutting down free speech because she wants to make sure that the faculties at the University of California don't engage in implicit bias speech or micro-aggressions including heaven forbid they say anything about America being the land of opportunity. You can't say that anymore there.

KILMEADE: Well they have never heard of is micro-aggression. I thought micro-aggression was excuse me, that was my wallet give it back. I understand those are the rules but micro-aggression as you mentioned land of opportunity. How about this, I believe the most qualified person should get the job. That is offensive. What about some of these other phrases? Don't ask a student to fill out a form where you could check a box, male or female. Don't ask a student wandering the halls who might be a minority if they're lost because they might imply that they're about to steal something from a lab.

KELLY: Oh my gosh.

KILMEADE: This is an 11 of the 12 University of California...

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: Poor minority kids are going to be wandering around the University of California for days on end. Where the hell am I?

KILMEADE: Basically all you can do there, they say it's all about sub conscious racism. What also bothers me, too, is if you imply this is a land of opportunity, that we are a co-list society -- for example, you're not supposed to say this phrase Megyn, when I look at somebody I don't see color. That is wrong.

KELLY: You shouldn't say that.

KILMEADE: You should not say that.

KELLY: I see color. I see it loud and clear and that -- I'm acknowledging my racism so that we can deal with it.

KILMEADE: Right. Because, of course, we are a racist society and you can't imply that it's a meritocracy.

(CROSSTALK)

KELLY: They don't want you to promote the myth of meritocracy in this country, nor can you say the statement, everyone can succeed in this society if they work hard enough because they say that's your white privilege talking.

KILMEADE: This is absolutely unbelievable.

KELLY: Tell it to Barack Obama.

KILMEADE: I mean absolutely, but if you're walking in the halls and you want to keep your job, all you can say is essentially hi.

KELLY: Yeah.

KILMEADE: I mean, just be fine. You do what you want.

KELLY: You can add to it, I am racist. I am sexist. I am wrong.

KILMEADE: Let's get it out.

KELLY: Good. You have to follow it up, where the hell am I? Why isn't anybody offering me directions, this is the meanest university ever.

KILMEADE: The poor kid's in chemistry.

KELLY: Why do they always help the white kids get down to the west wing but not the others?

KILMEADE: The smart chemistry kid from Bangladesh never gets to class.

KELLY: It is not right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Up next, we have got much more for you guys. Specifically, why that comments I just made makes me a sexist pig. We have more with Brian Kilmeade on the P.C. Police are up to now.

Plus, Caitlyn Jenner has been named the recipient of the Arthur Ashe Courage Award. But not everyone is happy about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BOB COSTAS: It strikes me that awarding the Arthur Ashe Award to Caitlyn Jenner is just a crass exploitation play. It's a tabloid play.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: Earlier this month ESPN announced that this years Arthur Ash Courage Award will go to Caitlyn Jenner. Jenner, Olympic Gold Medalist with the unofficial title of World's Greatest Athlete made what many have called the brave choice to reveal herself as a transgender woman in Vanity Fair Magazine. But the award was not without controversy. Here's NBC's Sports Announcer, Bob Costas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COSTAS: It strikes me that awarding the Arthur Ashe Award to Caitlyn Jenner is just a crass exploitation play, it's a tabloid play. In the broad world of sports, I'm pretty sure they could have found, and this is not anything against Caitlyn Jenner. I'm pretty sure they could have found someone who was much more, much closer to actively involved in sports.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: So this just in. He's just been fired by NBC News.

KILMEADE: That's not true. It is impossible. What about me? Can I get my job back if that was in fact the case? Here's the deal, the courage awards, Arthur Ashe he fought against racism his entire life in a mostly white sport, he put up with the slings and arrows. Other people have won this award. Nelson Mandela, Steve Palermo an umpire who was shot trying stop a robbery, you have Jim Valvano who tried to overcome cancer. Of course Muhammad Ali did standing up in the three and a half years where he was suspended.

KELLY: I looked at the qualifications to get this award, you have to possess strength in the face of adversity, courage in the face of peril and the willingness to stand up for your beliefs no matter what the cost. I think you can make a strong case she's done all of that.

KILMEADE: Right or you could say what has Bruce Jenner who is a great guy, probably watching right now, he's a huge fan of the network, he's been on two or three -- a great woman now. I met him as a guy and I'm sure he is just as nice now. But Bruce Jenner did something in sports that was tremendous, 30 years ago. What has he done in sports since? All these other people are active, Robin Roberts, who was an all American athlete who was at ESPN.

KELLY: Online, people were suggesting somebody like Lauren Hill who battled brain tumor during her freshman year, the basketball team before dying, Noah Galloway, an army veteran missing an arm and a leg who is a cross-fit company celebrity and so on.

KILMEADE: But what happens? You who don't really watch ESPN, you might tune in, because we're talking about it. Does ESPN really need to do this to get ratings? They're very popular. Everyone goes to them any way. People go to Sports Center, do they really need Caitlyn Jenner to get a trophy?

KELLY: All right, here's the last problem. If you want to address the folks at ESPN with your thoughts on Caitlyn Jenner, don't address them as false, you guys don't know what you're doing, you guys did the right thing because you know what, once again, you guys are sexist pigs for saying you guys.

KILMEADE: Right, this is unbelievable. And just I addressed it before with your staff, they were together. It was five men and one woman. I said what are you guys doing? That is wrong. It is a gender neutral term and we should be gender specific.

KELLY: Creeping sexism. That's like, I don't know. It feels a little naughty. Like where is it going?

KILMEADE: You should be more prideful Megyn if you are using that term of being feminine. And by using the term guys, you're not embracing your femininity. I believe you embrace your femininity regularly but I shouldn't insert my opinion in this segment, this is about information and learning. I'm saying this is another example. It is all brought on by this company called NPMTECH. This is a new company that says I have an idea. I hate the term guys. And voluntarily any time you use the word guys, I want to you put a dollar into a jar, almost reprimanding yourself. NPMTECH is run by a French guy and a guy from Canada who decided they wanted to be better than this.

KELLY: Here's what I'm going to do, I'm going to say to my staff which is mostly female. Every time you say you guys, I'll pay you a dollar. I'm going to counter balance this. It is such nonsense. I have one message for the folks at -- as a woman I can say this, you guys, you guys, you guys, come on! Who decides what is offensive? Is there some female group that gets together and has a bunch of cosmos and says I'm sick of that term, that one is banned.

KILMEADE: Alice Walker is the Poet Activist who believes we should get rid of it. You are fearful of being feminine. Why don't you just admit it Megyn Kelly, thank you very much -- Why don't you just admit it that you are backing away from being feminine.

KELLY: OK, you got it, backing off. See you.

KILMEADE: Bye.

KELLY: What do you guys think? Go facebook.com/thekellyfile. Follow me on twitter @Megynkelly, and will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KELLY: Coming up on tonight's show, we have a government that wants to decide how you live. We have companies that want to decide how you speak. And we've got prisoners that want to decide how to manipulate you. Thank goodness you have the Kelly File to give you a heads up on all of it. We hope you decide to be with us tomorrow night at 9:00. We'll see you then with Pete Hegseth and Howie Kurtz.

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