This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," June 9, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Breaking tonight, big news out of Baltimore. "The Kelly File" has learned that the police crackdown that led to the arrest and subsequent death of drug suspect Freddie Gray was directed by District Attorney Marilyn Mosby, the very woman now prosecuting six police officers for what they say was an attempt to comply with her orders.
Welcome to "The Kelly File" everyone. I'm Megyn Kelly.
This is a stunning development in a case that has sparked riots, protests and angry debates all the way to the White House. Recalled DA Marilyn Mosby had publicly said these cops had no business chasing Freddie Gray and placing him under arrest in this drug infested area, accusing them of an unlawful arrest.
But today, "The Kelly File" got its hands on a blockbuster document. An e-mail from a staffer in the Baltimore DA's office to the Baltimore police less than a month before the Freddie Gray incident, directing the cops on behalf of the prosecutor to crack down on the exact area where Freddie Gray was arrested by quote, "enhancing their antidrug push there."
The order was then passed along to the beat cops, get those drug pushers and you will be forced to account for your success daily. Off went the Baltimore PD and on April 12th, they arrested Freddie Gray on virtually the same street corner Miss Mosby wanted them to target. Gray would later die in police custody and become a new flash play in a campaign against some of America's cops.
Trace Gallagher has the very latest on what we have learned today live in our West Coast newsroom -- Trace.
TRACE GALLAGHER, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: And Megyn, the reason the state's attorney asked police to target that area is because she had received a series of pictures showing various drug deals going down at that intersection. Her office then sent an e-mail to a western Baltimore Police Commander saying, quoting, "State Attorney Mosby asked me to look into community concerns regarding drug dealing in the area of North Ave and Mount Street." Three days later, the police commander sent an e-mail to several of his officers saying that effective immediately, quote, "You will conduct a daily narcotics initiative addressing North and Mount Street." Now, remember, that's the exact address where Freddie Gray was arrested and one of the officers who got the e-mail was Lieutenant Brian Rice, who was involved in Freddie Gray's arrest and is now charged in his death.
Defense attorneys for the officers charged say that Marilyn Mosby was directing these officers to one of the highest crime intersections in the city of Baltimore. And legal experts says it puts Mosby in a bit of a bind and here's why. Initially Mosby alleged that Freddie Gray's arrest was illegal because the knife he carried was legal. Well, it turns out the city of Baltimore, the knife is illegal. So now, Mosby claims Freddie Gray's arrest was illegal because quoting again, "Mr. Gray was arrested well before the officers knew he possessed a knife." But the Supreme Court has ruled that instead of probable cause, reasonable suspicious is enough to stop an individual who flees unprovoked in a high crime area. Now, in light of the new e-mails, it would now be difficult for the state's attorney to argue the corner of north and mount was not a high crime area. Defense attorneys are asking Mosby to recuse herself from the case. Because they believe she is now both prosecutor and potential witness. Mosby's office has up to now refused to step aside, calling the defense desperate -- Megyn.
KELLY: Trace, thank you.
Joining me now with more, Arthur Aidala who is a New York trial attorney and a Fox News analyst. And Mark Eiglarsh who is a criminal defense attorney and a former prosecutor.
Arthur, I mean, to me, this is highly relevant. She, she gave the order. She's the one who told them get in there. Get to this specific corner and start cracking down on those drug offenders, so they did. And now, she's charged forget the guys who dealt with Freddie Gray when he was in that van. What about the arrests that she made of the arresting officer who apparently, according to this, was doing what she told him to do.
ARTHUR AIDALA, NEW YORK TRIAL ATTORNEY: Which now makes her a part of the narrative, right? Megyn, now, she's part of the story. If you're defending these police officers and you're giving your opening statement and you're talking about why are they there? Why are they in this location? She is part of this narrative. And here's the thing legally, there's recusal, which is kind of a choice. It's kind of a self-regulating thing, and then there's disqualification. Disqualification would mean hypothetically, let's say she represented one of these police officers before she was the district attorney or the states' attorney. She would be disqualified because she has a clear conflict, but one of the factors that goes into disqualification has to do with finances. Is somebody influenced by finances? Her husband, who is also the cold breadwinner of the family. Is this city councilman for this district? If she did not charge anybody in this case, there would be direct financial ramifications to her household to the bread that's on her table.
KELLY: I don't know -- I don't know if they've got her on that, Mark.
AIDALA: No, it's all four together though Megyn, it's that combined with the story you just broke, combined with her statements after the arrest, combined with her relationship, the lawyer for the deceased, all of that together does not give the defendants the pure prosecutor that they deserve.
KELLY: I don't know, Mark, what do you think?
MARK EIGLARSH, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Okay. Megyn, you and I have both agreed on how she probably should take herself off the case because it just looks bad.
KELLY: I have agreed she has behaved inappropriately. That's what I said.
EIGLARSH: And I have agreed that, legally, however, this one instance, candidly you and I part company, you're very passionate about her, the office's misbehavior by sending out this memo. I don't see it, Megyn. Let me explain why.
KELLY: I'm not saying anybody misbehaved. I'm saying she's got some nerve, going out there and challenging an arrest. You and I both know the Supreme Court cases, Illinois versus Wardlow, the Supreme Court held that a cop possesses reasonable suspicion to justify a stop when they see an individual flee unprovoked in a high crime area.
KELLY: That is what she said her arrest --
KELLY: -- of the arresting cops here is based on. The fact that they arrested Freddie Gray because he fled unprovoked in a high crime area. This document proves she knew it was a high crime area and she was encouraging arrests.
EIGLARSH: Okay, two issues there. One, the fact she's encouraging arrests at that corner just sends the cops there. I don't even think it's that relevant.
AIDALA: No, it sends them there to be aggressive, Mark. It sends them to be aggressive.
EIGLARSH: Let me get my thoughts out. Give me a moment. Okay, thank you. The fact, the question is, the issue for their case is, what did they do when they got there? Did they arrest someone unlawfully? Did they use excessive force and ultimately cause this tragic demise? That's the issue. The second is whether it's a high crime area. I don't know that the prosecution is going to dispute that.
KELLY: Of course they're not. They can't given this memo, Arthur.
AIDALA: Right. They're the boss.
EIGLARSH: Why do they have to be witnesses, then?
AIDALA: Mark, you're making my point. My point is now the prosecutor, the chief prosecutor is part of the story. She's part of the opening statement. I am going point to the table and say, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, their boss sent my guy to that location to clean up the open drug ring and when he made an arrest that she's saying is illegal, they're saying we had absolute cause to make that arrest because the it's a high crime area. Here's the e-mail, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I have it in my hand. From their boss --
KELLY: And not just that, hold on, Mark. Not just that. Not just that. But it was forwarded by her office to the superiors of the very offices in this case, including Officer Brian Rice, Lieutenant Brian Rice who received the order, he was told to begin a daily narcotics initiative right at this corner, North and Mouth. And suggested that they would be collecting daily measurables on the progress made by these cops in cracking down on the drug dealers. What does Officer Rice say happened here? He says that Freddie Gray was engage in what was perceived to be illegal drug activity.
That a chase took place. That they then placed handcuffs on them, the cops are going to deny that that was an arrest. They're going to claim that the arrest came after the knife, which what she agreed to originally.
EIGLARSH: Two issues, Megyn.
KELLY: She also said the arrest took place after the knife was found initially when she announced these charges -- let me finish. And only when as you pointed out, Mark, it turned out that she was wrong about that knife. That has claimed that was illegal knife. That was disprove. She got proven long. She was like, oh, forget that stuff I said about the knife. In fact, they never should have chased him. And now, it turns out she told them to do it, she essentially told them to go after guys like this.
EIGLARSH: Right. Well, two things. One, that false arrest charge I thought was completely bogus and she lost all credibility with me on that day. But the fact that she says, go to that corner because there's a lot of crime there, in no way then somehow exculpates like the defense is suggesting, meaning showing they're innocent, because she told them to go there. She did instruct them to use all means necessary including ignoring the constitution and arresting people.
KELLY: How did they ignore the constitution?
EIGLARSH: I'm not saying they did that, Megyn.
KELLY: But what is even the argument? If you make the eye contact and they're going testify that he ran after seeing a drug transaction, he ran they stopped him, given the U.S. Supreme Court case, Illinois versus Wardlow. How does this case even get past motion practice?
AIDALA: It doesn't. It's there.
KELLY: Go ahead, Arthur.
AIDALA: Mark, let's end off agreeing on something. Wouldn't you agree that it would be in the nation's best interest if there was a prosecutor in charge of this case who's --
EIGLARSH: That's assault, that's an easy issue.
AIDALA: Of course. Just admit it.
KELLY: Can I tell you -- so, I disagree with both of you. I disagree with both of you. I don't think it disqualifies her. I don't agree with the defense that this disqualifies her. But I do think this is a very helpful document to the defense of the charges, at least against the arresting officer -- I'll give you the last word, Mark.
EIGLARSH: This judge will see exactly what the defense is trying to do, which I commend them for. But will not allow this office to get off the case because the defense is creating --
KELLY: You're defending -- I'm with you on that. I don't think this disqualifies her, but you cannot deny, it's a very helpful document for the defense, for the arresting officers.
AIDALA: It is creating --
EIGLARSH: I do not believe legally the judge is going to make -- we'll say otherwise.
KELLY: Now, we're just going around. I'm giving points. You already won. So, it's pointless.
EIGLARSH: See you later.
KELLY: Well, we have breaking news tonight on that cop getting national attention after he was accused of excessive force for this video here. He has just resigned, but he may still be criminally charged. Sheriff David Clarke is here next on why that matters to communities across the country.
Plus, the man hunt for two dangerous killers has become the biggest story in the nation tonight and it may be close to over. We'll speak with a former federal marshal, he was the head federal marshal and he's got some inside information on this case.
And then Marco Rubio finds himself the target of another New York Time's investigation, the second in just a week. Brit Hume is here on why that is significant. Don't Miss Mr. Hume tonight.
Plus, Jerry Seinfeld sounding off on what he thinks is wrong with kids today and this is no joke.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JERRY SEINFELD, ACTOR AND COMEDIAN: I don't hear colleges but I hear a lot of people telling me don't go near colleges. They're so pc. Think just want to use these words, that's racist, that's sexist, that's prejudice. They don't know what the (bleep) they're talking about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Breaking tonight, the McKinney Texas police officer at the center of a national controversy over excessive force and some alleged racism has just resigned. Corporal Eric Casebolt was caught on video drawing his weapon on a group of teens then taking down a young teenage girl as he responded to a disturbance at a pool party. While some backed the police response and said the kids were the ones out of control, McKinney Police Chief Greg Conley tonight described this officer's actions as quote, "indefensible."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF GREG CONLEY, MCKINNEY POLICE DEPARTMENT: Our policies are training, our practice do not support his actions. He came into the call out of control and as the video shows, was out of control during the incident.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Sheriff David Clarke is the sheriff of Milwaukee County. And my guest now, Sherriff, good to see you. So, now, he has voluntarily resigned, which means he can get hired someplace else, which people are objecting to, and some are calling, including the young woman, whose knee he had in her back is calling for him to be criminally charged as are others. First of all, do you think he should have been allowed to voluntarily resign?
SHERIFF DAVID CLARKE, MILWAUKEE COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICER: Well, that's up to him. I find it highly unlikely that he'll get another job in law enforcement. He'll have to undergo a background investigation. When we hire, we do a thorough background investigation and he'll have to say where he worked in law enforcement, and with the amplification of this case now nationally, this McKinney Texas local case, it would be highly unlikely to anybody would want to take him on.
KELLY: How about criminal charges?
CLARKE: I don't think from what I saw. Look, I don't have all the facts. I saw the video, watched it several times, but that's only part of the entire incident. I want to be careful there. However, what I saw tactically, I had a huge problem with. Some of the things that that officer did. You know, he lost his head. He lost his cool. He didn't keep his wits about him. We demand that our officers keep their wits about them in these volatile situations. You saw how chaotic he was, but he didn't do that. I heard the chief's comments that it was outside of their policy, but that doesn't mean that it's criminal. I don't think -- level of a criminal charges.
KELLY: What in your mind was worse? Drawing his gun on a bunch of teenagers, which can lead to very bad things, as we've seen, or what he did to that 14-year-old girl?
CLARKE: Well, I don't see this as some game, I find both of those actions highly problematic. He draws his weapon. You know, he's got to articulate that the reason why and I didn't see it there. But I wasn't on the scene and I want to make that clear, but he already had the girl on the ground. Then he was trying to turn her over for some reason, and like I said, he was highly agitated and that contributed to this unfortunately lost his wits, but as far as a criminal charge, I don't see it rising to the level of a criminal charge.
KELLY: What happens if he does get charged? I mean, what will happen -- I mean, we saw the Baltimore police get charged which some many believe was appropriate, many don't. And now, they're pushing to have this cop charged. I mean, is that appropriate and is that sort of, you know, where we're going to go with these cops who many people feel are out of control?
CLARKE: Well, no if it doesn't meet the elements of the crime and you know what that is, Megyn. With your background in law. But if they're doing it just to satisfy an angry mob and some people who were looking for blood, that's the wrong thing to do. You don't use the criminal justice system in that fashion. And that's why, and I don't think this rises to the level of a criminal charge and if he gets charged, because the prosecutors there can certainly charge him and the Police Department can take the charges over to the district attorney, the state's attorney and get a charge issued, but he'll go through it just like anybody else, but I don't see how that serves anything at this point.
KELLY: What do you make of, you know, they're calling, they're saying this is about race. Some people are saying it's about race and today, we heard a statement from a man, Reverend Ronald Wright who is the executive director of Justice Seekers in Texas, who said the following. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REV. RONALD WRIGHT, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF JUSTICE SEEKERS TEXAS: We're setting the stage for a terrorist attack in this country and the group is not going to be ISIS, it's going to be USIS. Us against these injustice law officers and people continuing to allow racism to go into this city.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Your thoughts on that.
CLARKE: Well, Justice Seekers you said the name of his group was. About revenge seekers it sounds more like to me. Look, there's no need for people to engage in hyperbole and that's all that was. We have these incidents, I think the system within the American police profession does a good job of self-correcting. We need to identify those people who aren't a good fit for this and get rid of them, but you know, the rhetoric coming out there, the hyperbole, again, that's just over the top and it doesn't serve anything either.
KELLY: Uh-mm. In the wake of the attacks, we've seen, you know, cops getting shot in the face. In some of the rhetoric, you see this guy coming out and saying, it's USIS, a terrorist attack is coming against these unjust law enforcement officers who allow racism in the cities. It's a little incendiary, Reverend. Sheriff, good to see you.
CLARKE: Way incendiary. Thank you, Megyn.
KELLY: Well, it is literally door to door right now, and the manhunt for two dangerous killers and these are bad, bad dudes. A former U.S. marshal is here next, he has inside information now on the plan to get these fugitives back behind bars, plus, breaking news on this story.
Also, a series of threats have lawmakers and reporters scrambling in Washington today. James Rosen was as he always somehow is, in the middle of it all when they had to evacuate. And he'll be here to tell us all about it just ahead.
And then, are you sometimes afraid to stand up for yourself, especially when dealing with powerful people? Cosmo magazine has some tips, including some from yours truly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, JAN. 28)
KELLY: I do have news for you before I let you go --
MIKE HUCKABEE, R-FORMER ARKANSAS GOVERNOR: Yes.
KELLY: We are not only swearing, we're drinking, we're smoking, we're having premarital sex, we take birth control, before we go to work. And sometimes boss around a bunch of men.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Also developing tonight, a massive manhunt is now literally door to door in a small town in Upstate, New York looking for two prison escapees on the run since early Saturday morning. Convicted murderers Richard Matt and David Sweat were last seen at bed check Friday night at the Clinton Correctional Facility in Dannemora. That is just south of the Canadian border in Northern New York State. The prisoners have possibly been spotted by two different people. One in their yard, another driver. Claiming to have seen them. Governor Andrew Cuomo here in New York is offering a $100,000 reward for the dangerous felons arrest.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. ANDREW COUMO, D-N.Y.: We have two dangerous possibly armed individuals who are on the loose and they are killers. And they're not going to want to go back. I can assure you that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Lenny DePaul is the former commander of the U.S. Marshal Service for the New York, New Jersey Regional Fugitive Task Force. Lenny, thank you so much for being here.
LENNY DEPAUL, (RET), COMMANDER, U.S. MARSHAL SERVICE: You're welcome.
KELLY: And so, do you believe these witnesses that say they may have seen them?
DEPAUL: And we have to believe them at this point. In fact, these tips that are coming in, we certainly don't want to leave any stones unturned.
KELLY: Here's one of the guys who spoke to ABC News. Listen to what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, ABC NEWS)
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I asked him, what the hell are you doing in my hard. Get the hell out of here and he was like, sorry, I didn't know where I was, I'm on the wrong street.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Really? Do you believe they're walking down the middle of the street at night? That's what he said.
DEPAUL: It sounds a little bizarre. But I don't know why he would come up with that sort of --
KELLY: Why would they stay so close? That was in the town of Willsboro in New York which is about 40 miles south of the Clinton Correctional Facility in Dannemora. Why would they stay so close to the prison?
DEPAUL: Well, that's the million dollar question. Are they on foot? Did they get a ride? Did they have some help on the inside? I mean, these are questions that still remain unanswered. I'm hoping that the investigators and I'm pretty sure the folks that are doing the investigation, have answers to the questions that, you know, we're speaking of.
KELLY: Federal marshals in your experience are giving this everything they have?
DEPAUL: We are. U.S. marshal service and my former task force in New York, New Jersey. Regional fugitive task force is on the ground. We're assisting the New York state troopers and providing all kinds of resources.
KELLY: But how do you do it? I understand they're using dogs, scent dogs, that's good. You know whether they got any hits?
DEPAUL: They possibly had a scent that they picked up, but I'm not sure if that went anywhere at this point. So, it's an intense manhunt as we speak, so.
KELLY: But it's like finding a needle in a haystack now and these are dangerous, dangerous guys.
DEPAUL: Vicious animals. Is how I like to describe both of them. I mean, the underlying charges are the homicides that they're doing time on, dismembering bodies, throwing them in the river. And the one, the Broome County deputy sheriff that was murdered and run over by SWAT. So, these are bad guys.
KELLY: And they have nothing to lose right now.
DEPAUL: That's what I fear for law enforcement and for citizens. I mean, they have, you know, desperate people do desperate things. And suicide by cop. If in fact they are cornered, there's some possible sightings out there, a whole lot of leads coming in. That again, they're tracking different things, but we certainly dedicated all our resources the marshal service has to both of these prejudice.
KELLY: Now, meanwhile, the focus is turning to this woman who worked inside the prison. Who they believe was working with these guys. Her name was Joyce Mitchell. The woman at the center of the reports and they claim that there's at least one source who's reportedly claiming she planned to pick them up after their escape, but did not. This is the woman they're talking to, I imagine.
DEPAUL: Yes. Again, I can't confirm or deny that they've had conversation and what came out of that, but let's say she did help. What did she do? I mean, did she make some calls for them? Did she do something on the outside?
KELLY: Did she give them the power tools they needed to get through two feet of concrete and then some?
DEPAUL: Right. A lot of construction going on and renovating things going on inside that prison and, you know, I'm sure that they started sawing when all the other saws were going off and whatnot.
KELLY: Because the prison was under construction inside and it was loud.
DEPAUL: They didn't wake up Friday morning to say, hey, let's cut through two feet of bricks and saw our way out of here and crawl, go out a manhole cover and escape. This has been going on forever.
KELLY: Is this, I mean, with all due respect to the guards, obviously there's a major problem, a major failure.
DEPAUL: Sure. Well -- I mean --
KELLY: How often does this happen where you know, somebody, a prisoner woos a worker inside a prison? An older female worker inside the prison?
DEPAUL: How often does it happen? I don't think it happens too often. Or at least I'm hoping it doesn't. And again, these are all allegations, I don't know whether or not that's a fact and what Mitchell do or didn't do it.
KELLY: Good point.
DEPAUL: But however, you know, if she did, let's go down that road. Again, did she meet somebody in the outside? Did she bring some money in for these guys? Did she bring a cell phone before they escaped? Did she provide a necessary equipment?
KELLY: You think they're going get him?
DEPAUL: I know they're going to get them. We're pretty good at what we do.
KELLY: Let's hope you're right.
DEPAUL: Thank you.
KELLY: Thank you very much.
Well, bomb threats sent reporters running on Capitol Hill today and James Rosen, once again, caught right in the middle of it. I mean, every stories, it's like Waldo. You know, oh my gosh, there he is.
Up next, what he says this actually was a historic moment.
Plus, The New York Times went digging into Marco Rubio's driving record. Ahah. And it turns out he's a speeder and his wife is, too.
Fox News senior political analyst, he's a speeder, too. No, he's not. Brit Hume, he is back with the facts and he is here next on what's really going on here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From the World Headquarters of Fox News, it's "The Kelly File," with Megyn Kelly.
KELLY: Well, two big security scares in Washington today. First, a suspicious package forced the shutdown of a hearing on Capitol Hill, then a bomb threat led to the evacuation of the White House press briefing as it was underway. Fox News chief Washington correspondent, James Rosen, was in the West Wing at the time and just filed this report for us.
JAMES ROSEN, FOX NEWS CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Megyn, good evening. Mark Knoller of CBS News who has covered this place since the Ford era who was regarded as the unofficial keeper of all White House statistics said he could not remember another instance when an ongoing White House press briefing was cleared out like this, and ironically, the White House press secretary, Josh Earnest was just in the middle of describing another kind threat to the federal government specifically, cyber threats, when the Secret Service appeared at the briefing room door.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Agencies across the administration understand that -- that these kinds of threats are real and require the attention of the senior leader -- senior level officials at the -- at each of these agencies.
POLICE: You need to evacuate the press briefing.
REPORTER: Oh, Jesus.
REPORTER: Where to? Where to?
EARNEST: We'll come back.
POLICE: You need to evacuate the press room.
REPORTER: Come on.
REPORTER: Where do we go? To the sheltering place? Or where do we go?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROSEN: It turned out a bomb threat, specifically targeting the White House briefing room, had been phoned in to Washington Police. I was actually the last person out the door. A cluster of Secret Service Officers told me the entire West Wing had been evacuated, but the White House later said only the press area and the office known as lower press were evacuated. The president remained on the grounds.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Josh, you said you were evacuated, but you just went to your office.
EARNEST: That's correct. I was evacuated from this room like -- like all of you were.
REPORTER: Can you remind us how close your office is to this right side?
EARNEST: It's not far away.
REPORTER: So, it's just hard to imagine why a bomb threat that would necessitate to evacuate this entire room wouldn't affect the rest of this West Wing complex. It's not a very large complex.
EARNEST: It's not a very large complex, but John, I can't account for -- for that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROSEN: And Josh Earnest could also not account for who went through the briefing room while it was cleared out and pointed our cameras at the ceiling. Megyn?
KELLY: Well, it was one of those smart bombs that knew like, just get the press. That -- just them, don't worry about anybody else in the building. Of, course, then the press complains when they're trying to protect them from a bomb. So, you know, you can see both sides.
Well, in other news, lots of attention now focused on The New York Times' recent treatment of Florida senator and Republican presidential candidate, Marco Rubio. Today, the paper went after the senator's financial history in a story entitled, "Struggles with Finances Track Marco Rubio's Career." This comes just days after a report on Senator Rubio's four -- counting four speeding tickets over nearly two decades. He did it.
A report slugged "Rubios on the road have drawn unwanted attention." Isn't it always unwanted when they pull you over? Joining me now, Fox News Senior political analyst, Brit Hume.
Not only is he a crappy driver, but so is his wife, 13 tickets for her.
BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Well it turns out she is the one who got most of the tickets which raises a pretty good question about, you know, if he had four speeding tickets in 18 years, why they bothered to do the story. Now, I was in here for "Fox News Sunday" and Cheryl Stober (ph) of the The New York Times was in here and -- and the subject came up, and she defended the story saying, it was really done kind of tongue and cheek.
That's not how it read to me, but I think what The New York Times may not understand is that there's some history here, and it dates back to a lot of thing, but most conspicuously to 2008, when the Times did a very, very cheap shot at John McCain in a story that unmistakably suggested he was having an improper affair -- had had an improper relationship with a female lobbyist and that she received some things in return for that.
The Times eventually was sued by that woman on the story and ended settling it with a -- with a -- by publishing a very peculiar statement, to the effect that, "We didn't mean to imply that there was any improper relationship." People haven't forgotten that. It was -- it was bad business and the Times has acquired kind of a reputation for that and the things like the stories are seen in that light.
KELLY: However, the -- the piece on Rubio's finances, and I get why people are mocking it because, you know, it talks about how he struggled with debt after college and law school. Hello? I can relate to that. I think a lot of people can. But isn't it fair to vet the financial history and habits of somebody who wants to hold the highest office in the land?
HUME: Yes, it is fair and I don't -- and I don't have a particular problem with this story, except the Times may have poisoned the well a bit by saying that -- that Rubio had bought what he called -- what they called a luxury speedboat, which turns out to be a fishing boat. This boat.
KELLY: Let just show to the audience. When I -- when I read that, this is what I pictured. I was picturing like something that maybe Judge Judy (ph) would own like look at it. Beautiful, yeah. Rubio lean and large.
KELLY: And then his team sent out the real picture.
HUME: Not exactly. Well, any other thing what I -- what I -- what I thought when I heard (ph) -- that was I thought. Well, it's no to -- like -- one of those cigarette boats that -- that George H.W. Bush used to so love. This is nothing like that.
HUME: And you know, it's kind of a cliche of.
KELLY: But -- but it cost $80,000, Brit, and he blew.
KELLY: . 10 percent of the $800,000 he had earned on his book and he himself said it may have been imprudent and -- and he was just fulfilling a dream.
HUME: Well, big deal, you know, I mean, look.
KELLY: That's what they want us -- that's what they want us to get upset about apparently.
HUME: I guess. But, you know, what I -- what I would say is that these things are fair game. The driver in the market (ph) is fair game perhaps if it amounts to anything. This is amounted too much to do about not very much and the finance story, I think, was -- was more substantive, but given what the "Times" has done in the past, it has a burden to carry. It's got to be careful with these things.
Look, Megyn, let me tell you something about The New York Times. It remains a great newspaper and it has been for a -- a very long time, one of the best newspapers on earth. Years ago, I had a conversation with then executive editor, Abe Rosenthal, the legendary Abe Rosenthal, and he said to me at the time in a remark that I found totally puzzling, he said, "When I'm gone, I want it to be said of me, he kept the paper straight." Well, at Times it was so straight back in those days.
This was the '70s, then I couldn't imagine anybody ever thinking otherwise. Well, now, we know. He was apparently holding back a tide and since he's been gone, the tide has gradually been I think unleashed.
KELLY: That's interesting. Wow. Brit, thank you. Good to see you.
HUME: You bet.
KELLY: Well, if you are a parent, who wants their child to excel, have we got a tip for you? Just ahead, details on a school district that has more than 200 valedictorians. It's amazing how they did it. Plus, see how our exclusive interview with the Duggars has impacted the debate over how the media treats Christians in America.
KELLY: Developing tonight, new reaction keeps pouring in after our interview with the Duggar family. It's now fueling a new debate over the media treatment of outspoken American Christians. Last night, The Blaze TV host, Dana Loesch, accused the Duggar's critics of seizing on the scandal in order to silence them and others.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DANA LOESCH, BLAZE TV HOST: If you want to talk about fear mongering and hate mongering, which isn't a substitute for just thinking differently and being of the faith, and thinking differently on things like marriage, you have to look at the head of Mozilla who was driven from his job. Look at all of the individuals, the Benham brothers, the Robertsons, any Christian, Megyn, in pop culture is eviscerated by the left if they hold a position of faith on a social issue and this is just a vehicle through which to further attack Christians. They're exploiting it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Joining us now, Mary Katharine Ham and Guy Benson, both are Fox News Contributors and they are co-authors. They have teamed up to write this book, "End of Discussion: How the Left's Outrage Industry Shuts Down Debate, Manipulates Voters, and Makes America Less Free and Fun," Meaning less fun. Great to see you both.
GUY BENSON, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Good to see you.
KELLY: So, this is a new book and you guys both worked together and worked on it together and it cuts to the heart of some of these issues we're talking about here. Dana's position was not to defend the actions of Josh Duggar. It was to say the outrage is excessive and over the top against this family because they happen to be the one thing you cannot be, which is outspoken Christians who oppose gay marriage.
Let me start with you on that, Guy, since you were very open about being a gay Republican.
KELLY: . here on "The Kelly File" and you've -- you've defended Christians, not in the Duggar's position but from attacks like this before.
BENSON: Yeah, absolutely, and one of the examples that we heard there from Dana was this CEO of Mozilla who has droven (ph) -- driven out of the company that he helped to found back in the day because it turned out he had donated to Proposition 8 in California in 2008, which passed in a very blue state, holding a position that at the time, was held by President Obama as well.
This was determined a thought crime so egregious that he could no longer run the company. Not because of any discrimination, not because of any actions he had taken, but because of his thoughts and that was one of the reasons that we decided to write in a discussion because that is not the kind of country that we want to live in.
KELLY: There was a lot of dislike for this family, as there is for a lot of Christian-outspoken people. You know, prior to their scandal, because the gay-lesbian community genuinely (ph) feels that what they're being outspoken about is hatred and bigotry.
MARY KATHARINE HAM, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Right. Yeah, it's sort of blown into more than disagreement on an issue and turned into only hatred or bigotry, when those two are not necessarily interchangeable, and that's something we argue for in discussions. Like, hey we're human beings here, we can have this exchange and we can disagree about certain issues. Guy and I happen to be pro same-sex marriage, and we disagree with many friends and colleagues on this issue but we have that discussion all the time, and it's not about hate and bigotry.
So, I think that's what -- what people are responding to, and I think there's another double standard here. Watching this Duggar story, just are (ph) the human being who watched these young women sort of grow up on TV, you have a heart for them and they were so well spoken with you. Another interesting double standard is that it seems like people are awfully quick to parse the victim's words, in this case and quick to -- in an age where we're so fast to be -- of seeking (ph) to victims in sexual cases even to the point of getting rid of.
BENSON: Due process.
HAM: . due process.
KELLY: That's right.
HAM: In this case.
KELLY: Well, you know, a lot of people -- a lot of -- seem me bring the Duggars down. I mean, it's like -- these two, let them talk.
HAM: Women like.
KELLY: My job is to get the story. My job is to get the story.
KELLY: Let's talk about another story which is did you guys went to high school, obviously. You seem like well-educated people. Were you valedictorian?
HAM: No, I was not.
BENSON: Me either.
KELLY: You should have gone to school in Dublin, Ohio.
KELLY: Because there were 222 valedictorians.
KELLY: Because they got some -- 9.4.0 but like 4.15. I don't know. It gets -- like about forth (ph) now.
BENSON: I would higher than that.
KELLY: So, what is this about, Mary Katharine? The little cupcakes. It's not enough to be in the top 10 percent, now, you have to be number one even if you're not really in that -- not really (ph) number one
HAM: Oh, yes, the millennials snowflakes. I can say this because I am a millennial and I'm not always down them but I'm like the grandma of the millennials. I'm the oldest millennial you can get. So, I can say to these whippersnappers, back in my day. Look, one person should be the valedictorian if you have a tie, maybe two people but goodness gracious. Two hundred something.
KELLY: Why can't we have a leader anymore? It's already happening. Even in my kids, they're in preschool already. They all get trophies for everything, Guy.
KELLY: And I don't give it to them.
BENSON: Twenty percent of the graduating class was valedictorian. That is lunacy.
KELLY: It cannot be.
BENSON: I want to know how long this graduation ceremony is going to be if all the valedictorians get to speak.
KELLY: I know.
BENSON: . right or do they pick one, and in that case, one special snowflake is more.
HAM: Then more special.
BENSON: . can have that.
KELLY: This is what they have to learn to say. You're not the best.
HAM: You are the second best.
KELLY: You're going to have to try harder. Sorry, that other person took a harder AP class than you took.
KELLY: .and did better than you did and by the way not everybody deserves an A plus on every exam. It's that -- that's why we, you know, we created and occur (ph). Anyway, I'm just bitter because I was also a valedictorian, except for the 200 people who graduated right in front of me.
HAM: Valedictorian is a new participation.
KELLY: Yeah. But I did go to Syracuse University. It was a very good school except that I didn't get into the Newhouse Communications Club but now they claimed I went there. But I didn't.
KELLY: What -- I'm not bitter. No, I'm not.
HAM: That's a fact checker.
KELLY: That is not the end of discussion. One more thing I want to talk to you about, Jerry Seinfeld sees the world as you do and like you guys in the book, is sick of the PC nonsense. Listen here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEINFELD: don't play colleges, but I hear a lot of people tell me don't go near colleges. They're so PC. They just want to use these words. That's racist, that's sexist, that's prejudice. They don't even (BEEP) talking about.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: He said about your people, Guy. You young people in college.
KELLY: . you were there more recently than the rest of us.
BENSON: Hey, that is true, but that's why we wrote this book "End of Discussion" because we agree with him and not with some of the people who want to police every element of speech and impugn motives. Look, part of the subtitle is how this culture makes America less free and we talked about that with people getting fired from their jobs, for example, but it also makes America less fun. What college student does not want Jerry Seinfeld to show up and play if they're.
KELLY: I know or Chris Rock, who has said the same thing. George Carlin said the same thing about colleges before he died.
KELLY: It's like you can't say anything, otherwise, the PC police will come and say, Mary Katharine, I'll let you say it. It is the.
HAM: End of discussion. That's what we say. It's birthed on college campuses. It is weaponized in D.C. and then it goes all over the country and gets to police every little thing you're doing.
HAM: End of discussion.
BENSON: Not healthy.
KELLY: That is the end of discussion for now. And it's a pleasure to see you both. Good luck with the book.
HAM: Thank you.
BENSON: Thank you, Megyn.
HAM: Thank you so much.
KELLY: All right. Well, buying a new home should be an exciting time for any young couple, but wait until you hear what drove one couple out of their home just months after moving in and let to a $2-million lawsuit. We don't have to do these stories on "The Kelly File." This one we had to bring you. Plus, you need to grow a little backbone. Cosmo Magazine has some tips and they happened to be from yours truly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Is this just math that you do as a Republican to make yourself feel better or is this real?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: So, you buy a big beautiful home, you move in, and then you discover your new house is infested with black rat snakes. That's exactly what happened to a Maryland family. And Trace Gallagher has that terrible, terrible report. Trace?
GALLAGHER: Come on, Megyn. The kids have their own bedrooms. Mom had an office and the grandparents were short bike ride away. Jeff and Jody Brooks bought the place around Christmastime and intending to stay forever until they realized that they did not live alone. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEFF BROOKS, HOMEOWNER: They lived around the inside of the shell of the tub and were able to go in the wall here. And then up to the ceiling to chase food. We found snake number two which is about 7 feet in length was living underneath that vent there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Yeah, 7 feet and that 7-foot black rat snake can slither through a space the size of a $0.50 piece. So, because no one mentioned the fact they'd be residing with hundreds of snakes, the Brooks are now suing the realtor for 2 million bucks, almost five times what they bought the house for.
They claimed the realtor who is the mom of the previous owner somehow left out the part about the giant black rat snakes. The realtor has not responded but it appears she might have had a little inkling that the house was a bit snaky considering the two previous renters are on the record saying it is a well-known snake house. The Brooks family is now irate and little depressed. Here's, mom.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JODY BROOKS, HOMEOWNER: It's heartbreaking for parents when you can't fix it. How do you -- how do you tell your kid you can't go home?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GALLAGHER: Good news is, the black rat snakes are not venomous. Bad news, they do like to live under your bed and snake experts say, most homes in Maryland have them and they don't know it. Surprise, Maryland! You got snakes.
KELLY: I used to live in Maryland and I -- we -- our apartment that we rented was mice infested -- mice infested. That was bad enough. I didn't even think to check inside the walls. And why do they have to call it a black rat snake. Snake is bad enough. Snake freaks me out, plenty (ph). You don't have to go black rat snake. I'm very disturbed.
Thank you for that report. We'll be right back with a little advice on.
GALLAGHER: You're welcome.
KELLY: . how to improve your life.
KELLY: The July issue of Cosmo has a piece on standing up for yourself especially against powerful people. It featured yours truly and a few familiar examples.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)
KELLY, 2012: Is this just math that you do as a Republican to make yourself feel better, or is this real?
KELLY, 2013:So, I'll start with you, Eric. What makes you dominant and me submissive and who died made you scientist in chief?
KELLY, JAN. 28: I do have news for you before I let you go.
KELLY: We are not only swearing, we're drinking, we're smoking, we're having premarital sex, use birth control, before we go to work and sometimes boss around a bunch of men.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY: Some advice in there about avoiding victimhood as well. Thanks for watching, everybody. I'm Megyn Kelly. See you tomorrow at 9:00.
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