This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 12, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along
with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld, it's
5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."
It's been 30 days since
Hillary Clinton announced she was running for president and since then, she
hasn't answered many questions from reporters. Now, some are criticizing
her dodging the media.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF FOR USAA TODAY: Bernie Sanders had 31
encounters with reporters since he announced and Hillary Clinton has had
zero, and that I think is not sustainable.
CARLY FIORINA, FORMER HEWLETT-PACKARD CEO: Hillary Clinton has taken
exactly seven on-the-record questions since April 12. I have actually
answered over 200 on-the-record questions since Monday of this week.
ED HENRY, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT FOR FOX NEWS: There have only been
eight that Hillary Clinton has fielded so far in one month as a candidate.
I've been there for many of them and she didn't even really answer the ones
that were thrown at her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: On top of her problems with the press, people who think they like
her and know her aren't even really sure what she stands for. Here's a
video of Clinton's supporters, shocked to learn about her record.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you support Hillary Clinton for President?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You do.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Go Hillary. Go Hillary.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: As senator, Hillary Clinton paid women 72 cents for each
dollar that she paid men.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Really? Will she really did that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whoa. If she is for equal pay, then why did she do
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's terrible.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What it does say about Hillary Clinton?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not really sure.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Things are hypocritical and that makes me less likely
to vote for her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I mean, you know what I mean, because it's like, why
are you trying to fight for something, but you are not doing it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That makes no sense.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: All right, Greg, let me ask you something. First of all, do you
think that anybody in America is paying attention to the election, enough
to care that Hillary Clinton isn't answering questions from the media?
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Well, I think I admire the strategy.
She's basically sleeping through the scandals. She's the first candidate to
employ hibernation as a political strategy. She's like the Howard Hughes of
presidential candidates. I wanted to check if she has Kleenex boxes for
shoes. As for these, as for these kids not knowing, what she stands for. To
embrace lockstep, that requires ignorance. The great benefit of being a
liberal, really, is that you don't have to abide by your own assumptions.
You just have to force others to do so. But she is a victim of her own
dishonesty that she, she wrote in on this 77 cents on a dollar which is a
lie, because when you factor in children -- with children appear, the pay
gap then if you -- gets smaller and smaller as mothers see greater
flexibility in their jobs. So she's been using false data from the start
and so that, that I don't blame them for not knowing it, because everybody
is fed this line of bull.
PERINO: Kimberly, let me ask you, do you think that Hillary -- campaign,
which is, we know is gonna be very sophisticated and they are polling
everything, that they just know it is better for her to sit and wait, not
answer any questions and hope that the storm passes her by?
KIMBELRY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah, because I think, I think
silence is golden, right? She should maybe just be seen but not heard, kind
of like me today.
GUILFOYLE: But it's a good strategy. Because unfortunately, every time she
does try to addresses the press, she comes with kind of flip comments,
doesn't come off as very warm and there's more to criticize her, it's just
fodder out there for her opponents. She's doesn't need to. She's not
running right now against anybody. She wants the right to go ahead and
cannibalize itself, let's see who ends up in some kind of bizarre survival
of the fittest at the end with the crown, and then she'll deal with them.
So right now, it's a kind of safe approach, I don't admire it personally,
because I think she should get out there, get after it and earn it and be
transparent and answer the questions. She also has too many bad things that
already lurking around, you know, with influence peddling, e-mail server
scandals, you know, inputs about foreign country is too much. Benghazi,
PERINO: Actually, interesting that the judicial watch which sued Hillary
Clinton's camp for evolve and they want that records, to the e-mail
records, because they said they were stalled. That case is now actually
been given some new life, because the judge says he's going to reopen it.
So maybe Eric, her strategy of waiting isn't gonna be the right one.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: I think this is a brilliant strategy.
She is not really -- she's lying a little bit in some of the polls, but I'm
sure her staffs is so smart, they have their new -- their nose to the every
single poll that comes out. If they see a tick down among Democrats or
among substantially tick down on many independents, she'll get back out
there. But for now, she's mired in scandal and it's not really affecting
her. It's like another day at the Democrat office, so -- travelgate (ph),
e-mailgate (ph), influence pedaling, maybe selling favors for donations.
But, if it starts to affect the numbers, then they will get out in front of
there. In the meantime, that, that's like PR 101, right? If you have a
scandal, get out of the news, right?
PERINO: Well, not necessarily. Usually you want to deal with it right away
and get everything out. Then I think it drags on like this, it could -- it
could hurt her but -- to Kimberly's point, that she's not running against
anybody right now, maybe it's fine. What about the press corps or the
press? What do you hear in Washington, Juan? Are they frustrated with
Hillary or do they understand the game?
JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: No. People are frustrated but I mean,
the thing is, what Eric said is right. You know, the polls are very
supportive of Hillary Clinton. In fact, her numbers are up since all of
this broke, since the influence pedaling and the quid pro quo -- all of
PERINO: And Juan, I mean, that's not true in all of those Swing State
WILLIAMS: No. We're talking overall polls show that, in fact, she has now
higher numbers in terms of leadership than she had before. I think that the
frustration on the part of the press is -- look, Hillary Clinton is the --
you know, the Godzilla right now on the political playing field for 2016.
It would be great to get her to engage. There was a major book, we
discussed it at length (ph) here, and the book had some allegations, I
would say no proof but allegations and Hillary Clinton just hasn't engaged.
Has it has it any consequence for, Dana? I don't think so.
GUTFELD: Why volunteer though? Why volunteer any information when there is
no pressure. She knows that the capacity for exertion is -- very low. For a
left-wing journalist, the idea of investigative reporting is quoting an e-
mail from media matters. (inaudible) your box, that's your defense. The
benefit of an established media that saturated by the left is you don't
have to answers the phone calls, if the phone calls are never made.
WILLIAMS: Yeah. But wait a second, it's The New York Times, it's the Wall
Street Journal -- I don't, you know I mean --
PERINO: That's why I think that maybe --
WILLIAMS: They -- they're going after her?
PERINO: That's why I think that maybe there's a little more to this. But
let's move on to another candidate. Jeb Bush had an interview last night
with Megyn Kelly, it was exclusive to Fox News and it ran last night. She
is -- he talks about Common Core. A lot of people saying think this is an
Achilles heel for him and this is how we talked about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH, FORMER GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA: The simple fact is we need higher
standards. They need to be state driven. The federal government should play
no role in this, either on questions (ph) of standards, content or
curriculum. That's what I believe, we've been dumbing things down, spending
more money, focus on the economic interest of the adults, fighting over
limited school choice and the countries that are successful, reward
teachers, but they high standards and they allow more options.
MEGYN KELLY, "THE KELLY FILE" HOST: How are you gonna get right with the
GOP based on this and say, feel so overwhelmingly against it?
J. BUSH: I'm gonna tell people what I think which is high standards are
better than low standards.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: Greg, a couple of weeks ago, I know that you spend almost entire
weekend doing a deep dive into the Common Core.
PERINO: Do you think that he can get over it? Or is not gonna - not work?
GUTFELD: I think conservatives love standards. They don't like big
government. That's where the conflict is. So if you can articulate the
importance of standards. For example, if the student is moving from Texas
to Arkansas, that he does not suffer, because the standards are uniform,
that's make sense. It's not about curriculum, it's about standards. Having
said that as Megyn said before, when you do read the math stuff, you're
like, whoa. But maybe that's because kids -- math is harder now than it was
when I was younger. I tried to do the math problems. I couldn't do them but
GUILFOYLE: Could you ever do them?
GUTFELD: I can't do that.
GUTFELD: That's my point.
GUILFOYLE: Lot of thing.
GUTFELD: I can't do math.
PERINO: And yeah, maybe if I had been taught that way --
GUTFELD: I would be better.
PERINO: That gives (ph) more words with the math now or whatever, I don't
know. I never do it really well either.
GUILFOYLE: Because it's a language with is math (ph).
PERINO: I remember in 4th grade when we started doing fractions, it was
like the first time I saw being quiet. You never had this problem?
BOLLING: I was like to get your point.
PERINO: In math, you are good at that.
BOLLING: And I -- I'm not sure that's the pushback on -- the vast majority
of conservatives. A lot of conservatives are upset with the federal nature
of Common Core. That's a federally mandated curriculum. I know it's tied to
different sates, but they don't get the funding unless they jump on board
with the Common Core.
WILLIAMS: This is, this is -- I'm just going crazy over here.
BOLLING: But no, no. But it -- that is the push back with -- Common Core.
If there was --
PERINO: It was the Obama administration that tie funding to common core,
WILLIAMS: Let me just say --
WILLIAMS: It was never, ever --
BOLLING: Go ahead, go ahead.
WILLIAMS: Has been.
BOLLING: A proponent of common core.
BOLLING: OK. Will that --
PERINO: And so our 46 other governors --
WILLIAMS: I was about to say thank you, Dana. And of course, you know it
doesn't -- I mean, do -- whether you can do the problems, we're not taking
calculus these days. We're not up o it.
GUILFOYLE: No. All you really need is like algebra where you did one --
GUILFOYLE: Side of the equation you do to the other. That's all you need to
PERINO: Fair and balanced.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah. That's to do.
WILLIAMS: Master Kimberly.
PERINO: But Juan, you're --
PERINO: I would say that you're an education expert.
WILLIAMS: No, no, no. But I love this topic.
PERINO: But you love education policy.
PERINO: How big of a problem do you think this is for any of the Republican
WILLIAMS: Well, it's a huge problem.
PERINO: Like -- even like Mike Huckabee.
WILLIAMS: It's a huge problem right now, because if you look at the
numbers, you know -- let's just go to hardball politics. If you look at the
numbers, the Republican base reacts to it in the much the way that Eric
reacts to it. I don't think it's based on reality, because I think this is
a state program that the governors bought into. I think people --
BOLLING: For funding.
WILLIAMS: No, no. The governor --
PERINO: That was had happened in the Obama administration.
BOLLING: No, no --
WILLIAMS: But did not. They bought into --
WILLIAMS: This world before Obama --
PERINO: It was raise to the top money.
BOLLING: Or they also put -- pushback --
PERINO: It was raise to the top money, it was Obama --
WILLIAMS: Yes, thank you.
PERINO: Decision to tie it and that actually --
WILLIAMS: Yeah. Obama tried to encourage it. That's all you can say, Eric.
PERINO: Let me go to one other thing --
WILLIAMS: Why do think it was (inaudible)?
BOLLING: Juan, Juan, you're for the school voucher system --
BOLLING: You're OK with Common Core?
BOLLING: As a curriculum?
WILLIAMS: You know why?
WILLIAMS: Because too often Eric, what they did --
BOLLING: Especially Juan, you know there are people in the black community
saying, it's not fair. Stand right (ph) (inaudible) on Common Core.
WILLIAMS: What is that?
BOLLING: A curriculum for certain inner city schools doesn't apply the way
-- the same way it would --
WILLIAMS: I don't know what you're saying, buddy, but let me tell you
something, when my kid competes with your kid, he better be able to do that
math problem, he better be able to read, he better be able to write and I
wouldn't want, as his parent, anything less.
BOLLING: Anything with Common Core.
WILLIAMS: I -- look, I'm just saying --
BOLLING: As a (inaudible).
WILLIAMS: Much -- I think that Common Core and standards are necessary in
this country. I think if your child is in the military and going from state
to state, you don't want your kid to end up in a state where there are no
standards. And besides that, you know what? We're not just competing with
each other. We're competing with the Chinese and --
WILLIAMS: And Germans.
BOLLING: And how they work now?
GUILFOYLE: Oh, they're unbeatable.
WILLIAMS: They, they have better scores.
BOLLING: Right --
PERINO: Kimberly, jump in here, K.G.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I would like to --
WILLIAMS: That's what I'm saying.
GUILFOYLE: What was the other subject we were going to discuss?
PERINO: You want to do -- you want to do the other one?
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, that will be fine.
PERINO: OK. Because you're going to get that clean all for yourself. It's
about foreign policy -- Jeb Bush.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
J. BUSH: Our foreign policy ought to be -- ought to be grounded and not
just the export of our own values or nation building. Those are, those are
good sentiments, but first and foremost, in security and peace. And I think
we've -- what we've seen under this president is, as we've pulled back,
we're creating an incredibly insecure world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: I felt like he was channeling you --
PERINO: Because you've been on this bandwagon for several months.
GUILFOYLE: I have, because I feel a sense of responsibility that exceeds
U.S. borders, because if we don't deal with responsibility from an
international and global to political perspective, it's going to be right
here. You can't just like, put down the shutters and the shades and put the
dark -- the guard dog out in front and electric fence for sometimes it's
good. And think you are going to be OK, because they are not going to give
up. They are committed and anybody in national security adviser will tell
you, they are focused, prepared and patient to do whatever they can to
destroy us and our way of life. So let's like be broader in our thinking
about what we can do, having an evasive (ph) approaches, have partnerships
with people in the Middle East and in like Israel, so that we can combat
this. It's more of a global perspective.
WILLIAMS: Are you suggesting I think you are that we do more than just have
a military response? That will be good.
GUILFOYLE: I think we should --
PERINO: Wouldn't say that though, Juan?
GUILFOYLE: Of course, but who wouldn't say that?
WILLIAMS: Whoa, I hear lots of people --
PERINO: That is such -- that's such a straw man.
WILLIAMS: Oh, no, it's not.
PERINO: We could just have a military response?
WILLIAMS: Oh my, God.
PERINO: Who want -- Eric, please name it.
WILLIAMS: At this table, there are people who say --
GUTFELD: I'm kidding.
WILLIAMS: Let's bomb now.
WILLIAMS: Oh, let's bomb.
PERINO: Can you name one person who says --
WILLIAMS: Oh, I can't -- but you know, I mean --
PERINO: Do it. Let's not -- I'll wait.
WILLIAMS: No, no, no, because they all it would do is --
PERINO: You don't have anybody.
WILLIAMS: Oh, that's not true there.
PERINO: There's not anybody --
WILLIAMS: But Dana --
PERINO: Running for offices who say we should have --
WILLIAMS: Oh, running for office.
PERINO: A military response.
WILLIAMS: Oh --
PERINO: But, well, who cares if some Joe Blow on the street says it.
PERINO: But you're suggesting that a military -- a military response is the
WILLIAMS: No, I don't. I definitely don't.
PERINO: Some people -- that you think, you think some --
GUILFOYLE: We can't lead a leadership vacuum, because --
PERINO: It's not fair to say that.
GUILFOYLE: Someone like (inaudible) steps in.
WILLIAMS: Right. I'm all --
GUILFOYLE: We're not could be better off.
WILLIAMS: I'm not for leadership vacuum, but I -- I am against the people
who think that the only way the United States can respond --
PERINO: Name them.
WILLIAMS: Is with a hard --
PERINO: Who says that?
WILLIAMS: Core military response.
PERINO: Who says that? Name anybody who says it.
WILLIAMS: I'm not getting into it.
PERINO: But, do you have them?
PERINO: You really go tell me afterwards --
PERINO: Whisper in my ear?
GUTFELD: Since we're talking about Hillary and about Jeb, I think it's
important to point out that Hillary is riding on the assumption that her
gender is going to win it for her, because voting for the -- people want to
vote for the first woman, it's a big deal and I think this is always going
to be in my mind a mistake for the Republican Party, who saw this six years
ago. They knew that Hillary was gonna be the candidate and they still
didn't come up with a viable female candidate that now we have a line-up of
hairpieces that are very -- that very competent. But, I'm sorry.
GUILFOYLE: No. But we have Carly Fiorina. She --
PERINO: But how can you --
GUILFOYLE: Very intelligent and --
GUTFELD: I -- she's not --
PERINO: I don't think you got it backwards, though.
PERINO: I don't think that the Republican Party can mold somebody --
PERINO: To be president and say, OK, we're going to have you be the
president. That actually has to come from the individual.
GUTFELD: I felt like they did that with Obama. I think they found Obama and
they made him the president. I think they did.
PERINO: I don't know --
GUTFELD: They knew that, they knew that --
PERINO: I think he felt that campaign. I really do.
GUTFELD: It's hard to be a -- I mean, it's hard to beat a first.
GUTFELD: That's why, I want to be the first little person president.
PERINO: I know, but I actually think that Barack Obama --
GUILFOYLE: She might be --
PERINO: Has started it all.
BOLLING: Can I throw a quick thought in there on --
GUILFOYLE: And the good news is --
BOLLING: I Like Greg, I want to win. We need to win.
PERINO: Can we go back to Jeb.
BOLLING: Well, we are in Jeb, right?
PERINO: Well, I don't know. He went to Hillary. But yes, finish it off --
BOLLING: Well, he said, we're talking while we're on Jeb and Hillary, so --
on Jeb, I want to win, too. I think it's important to win. I think for all
of the reasons, judgeships and what not, you need to win. One of the things
that distinguishes Jeb from Marco Rubio, and I don't why he doesn't do
this, but he refuses to sign the no, no tax increase pledge --
PERINO: He doesn't sign any pledges.
BOLLING: Marco Rubio -- right, which is his way of saying I'm not --
PERINO: It's not -- it's not an easy way, it's actually a principal way to
say you're not going to sign any pledges, I think that's smart.
BOLLING: But it's -- and you, you can say, I'm not gonna sign pledges but
I'll sign a no in tax increase pledge. Which would put him back on an even
playing field with Marco Rubio, who has already signed that pledge and I
think that would help him out, great --
PERINO: I actually --
BOLLING: But since he won't -- like I said, I don't think -
PERINO: It's like when you run for office --
BOLLING: For the one thing --
PERINO: When you run for office and you're ask to sign every --
BOLLING: I -- I would sign that pledge.
PERINO: But it's a pledge --
BOLLING: I mean, I don't sign that the ones that are --
PERINO: I just like to -- I like the principle approach to say, I'm not
signing any pledges that actually -- that's like not going to any baby
shower, that's my policy. It's worked all for me.
GUTFELD: I'm for paddling pledges.
WILLIAMS: Yeah. But let me just say though, I think that Jeb Bush, I think
he stands apart from the Republican field where you have so many flip-
floppers these days, including Rubio on immigration, right?
BOLLING: But you don't think his for (inaudible) though?
WILLIAMS: I don't think Jeb. Jeb is, Jeb is taking a hard committed double
stand on immigration and Common Core and I think it's admirable.
PERINO: All right, Juan gets the last word, coming up. Tom Brady's agent is
calling the players four game suspension, ridiculous. Will the punishment
fair, we're gonna hear from both sides of the debate, next.
BOLLING: Welcome back, everybody. News of Tom Brady's four game suspensions
broke during our hour yesterday, in the aftermath of the news, much debated
has taken place of the harshness. Some say it went too far, others say it
was a mere slap on the wrist. Two well-known sportscasters hit the airwaves
after the verdict came down, Jim Gray, sat with Shawn last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIM GRAY, SPORTSCASTER: It's unprecedented. I don't believe it should have
happened. Four games, what Roger Goodell and his staff is saying is that
this penalty is worse for the deflation of the footballs that they say
occurred but they have no definitive proof of it is worse than the initial
reaction that he had to Ray Rice, knocking out his wife in an elevator.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: And long-time sports reporter Bob Costas appeared on Today Show
this morning, taking the opposing side.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB COSTAS, SPORTS REPORTER: I think he mishandled it with the league and
he also mishandled it in the court of public opinion. Think back if he just
said this, "Look, we all look for an edge, I like the football at the
lowest possible end of what is allowable. I communicated that to the
equipment guys, if they want to bend overboard, I'm sorry, my bad, see you
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Well, per usual, Costas delivers a lot of words, but few that
matter. K. G., way in now that you've heard a lot of some of the debate
going back and forth.
GUILFOYLE: OK. So this is what I think happen. It's like Tom Brady and the
(inaudible) somebody got fake (ph). This is a big deal, the big deal. This
is the big deal and I think the best he can hope to do is get a couple
scaled back. Maybe he'll get --
BOLLING: So he'll get an appeal?
GUILFOYLE: Of course, he'll gonna appeal.
GUILFOYLE: But that's the end of use of discretion. So, it's gonna be tough
but maybe they will gonna say, OK, and we'll give them like a couple of
games, maybe we'll scale it back a little bit but this is gonna stand.
BOLLING: Right. They --
GUILFOYLE: They're not gonna save him on this.
BOLLING: They pulled Brady from four games, they fine. This gonna cause of
few million bucks on the basis of more likely than not.
BOLLING: Can you imagine getting that much money taken away from you on
more likely than not.
GUTFELD: Well, he's got the money. But the fact is, Costas is right. It's
about obstruction. It wasn't -- it wasn't about, it wasn't about the
actually crime. If he actually said what had happened, and the way Costas
has articulated is -- I would have said, yeah, OK. That sounds good to be.
And I would have move on with --
BOLLING: Why are you defending Costas, he didn't understand. He -- he was
basically saying that Tom Brady was fined by the NFL and pulled from four
games, because of the way he acted afterwards?
GUTFELD: Yes. Yeah.
GUTFELD: It was actually really smart -- he was articulating exactly what
happened, which was --
BOLLING: Well, then he --
BOLLING: The case, then Brady got a case against the NFL? Either you prove
it or you don't. Don't condemn me, because I was -- I don't know, smug in
an interview with Gray afterwards.
GUTFELD: No, no, no. He did, he avoided -- he avoided meeting with the NFL.
He obstructed it. That's what the punishing him for. It's pretty simple.
BOLLING: Guilty, because you won't come forward with your texts?
BOLLING: All right, fair enough --
GUTFELD: If he cooperated, if he cooperated, they probably would have been
nicer to him.
GUILFOYLE: Kind of like people get prosecuted for the cover-up and not the
crime, like you know Martha Stewart --
PERINO: There's so many of those.
PERINO: There's big -- there are big cases like that. It's not the --
PERINO: It's not the actual crime. It's the fact that along the way in the
investigation, you either --
PERINO: Obstructed or concealed or lied.
BOLLING: OK. However, in this case, they don't really have any -- let me,
let's put it this way. Juan, maybe the NFL is at fault. For having a faulty
BOLLING: Yeah. Why do you let two different teams bring two different balls
to a game?
WILLIAMS: And you know what? This is a sad answer from your perspective.
The answer is Tom Brady. He was the one who put in this new rule that said
each team gets to bring its footballs and to control how they are inflated
and then the league says it was got to be inflated between these two
margins and he broke that rule, he broke his own rule.
BOLLING: Honest, with (inaudible) I believe we don't even know for a fact
that he broke his own rule.
GUILFOYLE: But based on the standard approve there, yeah.
BOLLING: I don't like Tom Brady for the Patriots --
GUILFOYLE: They're made their case now he's gonna appeal it.
BOLLING: So like defending the team or the guy. K.G.?
GUILFOYLE: You don't like the rule and I think you're having a hard time
seeing passed, because you think that this is a rule that is meaningless,
it doesn't have distinction, it shouldn't offerable (ph) in the NFL. The
point is, it is and these are the standards and this was the proof that
they need to put forward, it was sufficient for those standards, he can now
appeal it. A very tough high standard now to overcome, to get this reduced
or kicked out. Was there an abused of discretion --
WILLIAMS: You know what? --
PERINO: I think also --
PERINO: I think Bob Costas was right on another level, but I would have
taken it one step further. He says, I can -- but Brady could have said, I
communicated that to the equipment guys. I think that Tom Brady, given his
position, given the situation, he knows he's not -- and probably is not
going to win on appeal. He's kind of making it worst for himself. If he
wanted to actually do something right, I think that he should stand up for
the equipment guys and take the fall for them and say, I -- I went -- that
as Costas said, I went a bit overboard. I'm sorry. I think that actually
would have been the right, stand-up thing to do.
WILLIAMS: yeah, that will be cool. But let me just tell you. This story --
GUILFOYLE: They should get some cash roll and --
WILLIAMS: It's not about Tom Brady, as much as we're all talking about the
glamour boy. Let me tell you, this story is about Roger Goodell. It's about
the commissioner --
BOLLING: Of course.
WILLIAMS: It's about the politics --
GUILFOYLE: Thank God. Now you gonna say Goodell.
WILLIAMS: About his problems and his image problems and the league's image
problems and I think after Ray rice, after (inaudible), after all of these
guys that he tried to -- you know, say --
GUILFOYLE: Poor black to go --
WILLIAMS: I want to go down --
GUILFOYLE: I think he suffered enough (inaudible) --
WILLIAMS: No, but yeah, from some stupidity.
WILLIAMS: That is his problem. But I think it's Roger Goodell who is on
trial here, and Roger Goodell felt, you know what if I don't come down hard
here, then people are gonna say that I'm - I'm a terrible commissioner.
Guess what commissioner they are already saying you're a terrible
commissioner. By the way, I have a question for you.
GUILFOYLE: What do you want?
WILLIAMS: What was this about Brady in the huddle getting slapped, where
WILLIAMS: Well -- that doesn't happen in a huddle game.
GUTFELD: Here's one lesson. If you're going to talk to the equipment
manager, do not text. Use the oral legend. If you're on the grid iron, get
off the grid. It's only gonna come back and haunt you, it's the camp trail
GUTFELD: Of your life.
GUTFELD: Text messaging, e-mails, it is the contrail.
PERINO: That's the T's for our e-block.
GUTFELD: Is it?
WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes, it is.
GUTFELD: I don't remember the e-block.
BOLLING: All right.
BOLLING: Ahead on "The Five," country is known for having corrupt government
and enforcing Sharia law are calling out the United States for human rights
violations, details next.
GUTFELD: The United States went before the U.N. Human Rights Council, who
scolded us over Gitmo, surveillance, the death penalty and our police. So
who ragged on us? Brazil, Malaysia, Mexico, others.
First Brazil, where their prisons make Attica look like Legoland.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CNN REPORTER: At least four inmates were killed, two of them
beheaded, in a prison riot in southern Brazil. The violence erupted on
Sunday when inmates overpowered guards as they tried to deliver breakfast.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Overcrowded and violent, the adult prison population runs 43 percent over capacity, 20,000 of which are kids. Poor sanitation, disease -- those who don't die there are often tortured. I'd say go to hell Brazilian at the U.N., but it sounds like you left it behind.
Malaysia. They've criminalized homosexuality, enforce Sharia law. You can get caned for drinking booze and executed for drugs. It's also a destination for women and children sold into sexual exploitation.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. HARTINI ZAINUDDIN, CHILDREN'S RIGHTS ADVOCATE: We're seeing a large number of children who are exposed and exploited by the sex industry.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: That puts the "malaise" in Malaysia.
And then Mexico. Confessions via torture, mass disappearances, corrupt prisons, deadly cartels. Maybe if your country was better to your citizens, so many wouldn't be fleeing to our scary country. And who could forget this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Already 51 days behind bars, a U.S. Marine who did two tours in Afghanistan for us, held in a Mexican prison after making a wrong turn at the border.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: Thanks, Mexico.
So what the U.N. focused on -- our justice system and anti-terror measures -- are what protects us. They see our security as abuse. Why now? Perhaps they also see an opportunity to recast our policy as tyranny, because they sense a sympathetic ear in the administration. No joke. A Justice Department hack actually agreed with these criticisms. He should be tossed in a Brazilian prison.
So if the U.N. sees our protections as abuse, why offer them our protection at all? Why should the U.N. even have our security? You want us to be vulnerable? You first.
But then again, taking advice on abuse from the U.N. makes some sense. They are the experts.
All right. I can't believe this, Dana. James Cadogan, a Justice
PERINO: I can't believe it.
GUTFELD: He said, "We must rededicate ourselves to ensuring civil rights
laws live up to their promise." He said that at this Human Rights Council.
He basically bowed to them.
PERINO: So I was a spokesperson at the Justice Department for a while.
Basically, there's five things that you say at the Justice Department, and
they're all a version of "no comment."
PERINO: If you can't defend the United States, you just go to your "I
can't comment on this report, because I haven't read it."
PERINO: Whatever sort of version that is.
Every year when the Human Rights Council came out with their report, it was
some version of this. And I promise you the Bush administration pushed
back on that very hard every single time. That's ridiculous.
GUTFELD: Eric, you've got to admire their gumption. Amazing.
BOLLING: Yes. And the way -- on the alter-side -- the other side of that
coin, human rights, is human opportunity. America provides a massive
amount of opportunity. We have GDP per capita, 53 or $54,000, far
exceeding most of the people who are complaining about our human rights
violations. We have one-third of all of the wealth in the world. That
raises the standards of living. It raises life expectancies. You want to
look at some countries...
GUTFELD: And also, money goes to aid.
BOLLING: And we are the biggest give of aid around the planet because of
that. It's bizarre that they didn't push back on this.
Look at Iran. Look at Rwanda. Look at any host of different countries
that have human -- real human rights violations.
PERINO: Also, think about where did they get this language?
PERINO: From the left. In our own country, they agree.
GUTFELD: Yes. It's true. It's true.
Juan, the U.N., just a few blocks away, they are surrounded by armed
guards. Is it time to just remove the -- make it a gun-free zone?
WILLIAMS: For you in your fantasy, right.
WILLIAMS: Knock them out.
No, look, the reality is that none of these countries are without flaw,
including the United States. But you know, the thing of it is, it's just
craziness that they would put people on this panel, as you say...
WILLIAMS: ... who have these egregious human rights violations. I mean,
WILLIAMS: I mean, even when you think about something like the military
situation with the Chinese and the Russians, who are they to talk to us?
But anyway, but the fact is, I think it gives us added standing, because we
do need some credibility when we talk about them. And to say, "Yes, OK, we
have some problems we're working on," I don't see that that's a problem.
GUTFELD: So we're just being polite?
All right, Kimberly.
GUTFELD: Here's what I call interesting. They call for the -- abolishing
the death penalty, curbing NSA, closing Gitmo. What do these all -- and
then they, of course, castigate law enforcement.
GUILFOYLE: Law enforcement.
GUTFELD: What do these all have in common, in your...
GUTFELD: No, it's...
GUILFOYLE: Aren't those the right answers?
GUTFELD: Yes. That always works, and then impeachment and Kenyan-born.
No, it's all...
BOLLING: It's thugs.
GUTFELD: It's thugs.
WILLIAMS: Wait a minute. That's the secret sauce. You can't reveal that.
GUTFELD: These are all things that protect us.
GUILFOYLE: Right. Well, listen, this is all -- what they can say about
the U.S. and we had a top official, Cadogan, go and essentially cast
aspersions on United States law enforcement. You know, to me it makes no
sense that we have to go on bended knee and say how bad we are. He
basically flogged himself in front of him to make what? Make us look
better, he thinks, in the international community by saying we're going to
GUILFOYLE: We're very bad because we're keeping the world safe by keeping
the bad guys in Gitmo? It just makes no sense. You have member nations on
the Security Council that are literally the biggest human rights violators
out there, that have secret police that beat and torture, execute people
after quick mock, essentially, state trials. It's very disturbing to me.
That's why I think the U.N. just really doesn't have such credibility any
WILLIAMS: You know what I got a kick out of?
WILLIAMS: Here's what they say we're making progress on, Gregory.
GUTFELD: Go ahead.
WILLIAMS: It says same-sex marriage.
WILLIAMS: It says we're helping illegal aliens cross the border. It says
we're protecting the privacy rights against government surveillance. I
wish. And it says we're trying to close Gitmo. This sounds as if it was
written by somebody who was trying to antagonize the right.
GUTFELD: Yes, I think you're right.
OK. Ahead, according to a new Pew report -- Pew -- the report of Americans
who identify as Christians is rapidly dropping. That's next.
GUILFOYLE: How concerned should we be of the changing religious landscape
in this country? Well, according to new research by Pew, fewer Americans
are describing themselves as Christians. Down nearly 8 points over the
last seven years.
During the same time period, the number of people claiming to be agnostic
or atheist has increased by almost 7 points. Should anybody be alarmed
about this? Is this something that is just a personal decision that does
not have further ramifications for the country?
Juan, how does it affect families?
WILLIAMS: I don't think it's great for families. And I -- you know, I
have a personal concern about this because my kids, I just can't get them
to go to church.
And I see in these numbers that, really, it's young people. It's young
millennials. It's older millennials but anybody, you know, under 34 years
old, they're just not going to church.
And I think this is part of America and especially educated Americans
deciding they'll take care -- they know better than the word of God, and I
just think that's a mistake. I think that there is a reason why church is
so helpful for families and structure and children. I think it's a real
benefit to community. But people just -- in American these days, more and
more, they think they don't need community.
BOLLING: That's so sad (ph). And I'm going to agree. I wish this would
have been our lead. I think this is really important. I think culture is
in decline in America, and I think it is in response to some of the things
that Juan pointed out but also entertainment. The music industry is just
awful. They just lead kids away from anything that's religious or church
or godly, and they say this is the way things should be. Look at our --
our film industry, same thing. It is so -- television, as well. So
focused on everything but religion.
Look, I'm a Catholic, practicing, unapologetic and I'm thrilled that I can
do it. Because if you like me, if you listen to me, I hope you realize
that a lot of what I am come from a lot of years going to church,
listening, praying, praying for forgiveness. Not perfect, never said I am.
But it -- I think it certainly makes me a better person.
My son was -- the best thing that ever happened to me in the last five
years, I'm at church in Mexico on vacation, going to Easter mass and out of
the blue, never asked him to show up, Eric -- that's his head in the lower
left-hand corner -- just showed up and stood next to me for Easter mass.
It made my heart warm to know that.
So I think we really need to -- we don't need to do anything. I hope that
people realize that church and God matter.
PERINO: I would say religious liberty is what holds the country together.
Right? So we have the -- as long as it's protected; and that, as we know,
is a little bit under threat or a lot under threat.
Two things on the community standpoint. I would say if you really care
about healing inner cities, government is not going to do that. So it's
the pastors that have been the most important influence.
And I would say on the Catholicism, if you want to know who educates the
most children and educates them well, regardless of religion and economic
background, it has been the Catholic Church, and those schools are closing
at an alarming rate. And I think that is something we should focus on to
try to reverse.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. You're absolutely right. They just had meetings last
week. They were going to perhaps close St. Gregory's Church and School.
Ronin was able to make his first holy communion. But Cardinal Dolan
keeping it open.
All right. Greg.
GUTFELD: I don't think -- the issue, in my mind, isn't a decline in
religion. I'm not religious. It's that we've offered no workable
replacement. And that has happened in the last 40 years or so.
We are watching institutions that have been targeted, whether it is
religion, corporations, police, military. There are people, there are
forces out there that wish to eradicate these things that create community,
that create structure and family life, because they find them pernicious or
dangerous. Yet, they offer absolutely no replacement for this.
So if you lose these cascades of benefits, which are family life and
community and structure, then what happens if you don't have these
stabilizing forces and community? Is it time for atheists and agnostics to
step up and start creating a religious-like community events to get people
who are not believers to meet on weekends, but somehow create a kind of
community that is independent of believing in a -- maybe not an organized
religion, because you can believe in a -- in a god without an organized
But what is happening, in my mind, what I find disturbing most is that
these traditions that have kept the country together are being marginalized
in the hopes of creating some radical utopia that really is going to be
anarchic fascism. I'm a very pessimistic person.
GUILFOYLE: My God. This is getting heavy.
GUTFELD: But I do see -- no, I do see a decline in a lot -- in respect for
traditions that have created this country. And that, to me, is scary.
It's not just religion. It's every kind of backbone that has made this
GUILFOYLE: Principle. All right. Well, that -- perhaps that will be
GUTFELD: By you, I hope.
GUILFOYLE: Well, I'm going to do it every day, but in 2016, some great
All right. Next, a private school principle and an assistant college
professor both accused of making racist remarks. They aren't receiving the
same amount of backlash, though. Details, ahead.
WILLIAMS: Two educators with some pretty controversial remarks. First,
Boston University now condemning an assistant professor after tweets
surface from her private account like this one from Marsh, quote, "Why is
white America so reluctant to identify white college males as a problem
population?" end quote. And this one just last month, quote, "Looting is
just poor black people's best impression of Wall Street and the entire of
the rest of America: unwanted [SIC] earnings -- earned goods is not a black
trait," end quote.
And in Georgia, a principal at a private academy for middle and high
schoolers has apologized after getting caught saying this at a graduation
ceremony last week.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You people are being so rude to not listen to this
speech. It was my fault that we missed it in the program.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People walking off.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at who's leaving, all black.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: So Gregory, she said all the black people are leaving. Because
she had stopped the thing. She said it was over.
WILLIAMS: Then she realized that the valedictorian had not spoken and then
she said -- and now she says it was the devil in her mouth.
GUTFELD: Mm-hmm. I've had that problem before. You know, she was
referring to the Black family. It's actually a white family. Their last
name are Black.
No. No, terrible stuff. People -- she lost her mind. But the difference
here is the professor actually thought about what she said.
WILLIAMS: Oh, yes.
GUTFELD: She took her time. This was planned. It just shows that the
real -- the only racists left are in teachers' lounges, and it reflects a
new national identify for the hard left. Basically, their patriotism is
identity politics. That's the flag that they fly under. There's no more
America; there's just identity.
WILLIAMS: Dana, you know, I think this -- the problem with the Boston
professor is, I think she thinks she's somehow being avant-garde and just
PERINO: But I also -- here's the thing. This proves the theory that
Twitter is probably really bad for 99 percent of the people out there.
GUTFELD: But it exposed her.
PERINO: It did expose her. But...
WILLIAMS: She exposed herself.
PERINO: She would have kept that thought to herself before. She might
have said it just to her friend or something.
GUTFELD: That's good. Now we know.
PERINO: Now we know.
GUTFELD: Now we know.
WILLIAMS: OK. So Boston University at first says free speech. Will you
BOLLING: Sure. Yes. She has a right to say that. She's a fool for
GUILFOYLE: "Fool of the Week"?
BOLLING: Well, I don't know about "Fool of the Week."
PERINO: There's a lot of candidates.
BOLLING: Yes, a lot of candidates this week.
But, again, both of them, foolish things that they've both said but, as
Greg points out, they get exposed. And in the free market she doesn't have
to be the commencement speaker anymore, the one. She can let go of her
duties for the other one. But again, you can't yell at her for saying it.
It is interesting, though, that it's almost -- she was almost unaware that
white males -- it's the last group. You can't attack women. You can't say
something like that about women; you're a sexist. If you say something
about someone who's Jewish or Islamic, you're an Islamophobe or an anti-
Semite. White men, it's almost like in America, you can just go ahead and
say whatever you want and never be called out. But good for you, Juan, for
calling her out.
WILLIAMS: Kimberly, what do you think? You know, here -- so Eric says if
it had been women he was going after, he...
GUILFOYLE: I wish she didn't think -- believe that. Well, hello, news
flash, there are double standards that exist in the world. I wish that she
didn't think or feel that, and I think unfortunately, she does. And she
put it out there for the world to see. And I don't know what her
motivations or intentions were: to just be provocative, be hurtful? Is she
angry? Is she resentful? Does she need therapy? I don't know. Maybe all
of the above.
WILLIAMS: I think she sees white men as powerful but that she doesn't see
the good of white people. She doesn't see people. I think she's locked up
in her own head.
Anyway, "One More Thing" up next.
PERINO: Time now for "One More Thing" -- Greg.
GUTFELD: Thank you, Dana. Let's roll this thing.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(BOAR RUNNING AROUND A RESTAURANT)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: You people are dumb. All right. Well, that's a boar that got
loose in a restaurant. Isn't that interesting?
PERINO: That is interesting.
GUTFELD: Yes, very interesting. And there -- he was there for a long time
and he's actually one of the more famous boars. And then they sold him.
PERINO: Was he a bore?
GUTFELD: Yes, he was a bore.
PERINO: All right.
BOLLING: All right. What are we missing?
PERINO: I'm going to go next. We're going to find out after the show.
GUILFOYLE: What happened?
GUTFELD: I'm not going to tell you. Everything is great.
PERINO: Everything is good. Everything is good.
PERINO: Right after this show, I'm going to do a Facebook Q&A. You can
send in your questions now, because I'm going to walk right upstairs and do
it. I got one of the questions: "Dana, would your book be good for
Father's Day or is it more geared towards women?"
I would say gender neutral.
BOLLING: I would agree with that. I read it.
PERINO: Yes, you liked it. Right?
BOLLING: I did.
PERINO: A lot of guys like it, I think. And then from Lenny S., "Would
you ever work in the White House again if asked by a newly-elected
president as press secretary?"
I might answer that up there. I have a good one, good way to answer that.
Kimberly, you're next.
GUILFOYLE: Save the answer for 2016.
So I have a good "One More Thing." So David Letterman is retiring after
ruling the late-night talk show for ever and ever. And Howard Stern went
on. He's had a lot of great guests. Howard, not to be out done, planted a
big one on him. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST, CBS'S "LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN": No!
HOWARD STERN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST/JUDGE ON NBC'S "AMERICA'S GOT TALENT":
STERN: Kiss me!
STERN: Kiss me right now!
LETTERMAN: We'll be right back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Aww, he's a little shy, I think. Howard, I wouldn't turn my
BOLLING: Can I ask you K.G., Howard, if you -- you know?
GUILFOYLE: I would have to wear my six-inch heels. He's tall.
BOLLING: He's a big fan of yours, isn't he?
GUILFOYLE: He's great. So I think that was nice, and I'm happy for David
PERINO: OK, Juan, you're next.
WILLIAMS: So one of my heroes, journalist Seymour Hersh, a Pulitzer Prize
GUILFOYLE: He's one of your heroes?
WILLIAMS: ... has a sensational new story, 10,000 words. He says the
story of the U.S. SEALs killing Osama bin Laden really is just a Lewis
Carroll "Alice in Wonderland" fantasy.
Here's the quote from him. "The White House still maintains that the
mission was an all-American affair. The White House story might have been
written by Lewis Carroll."
He says, in fact, that the Pakistanis knew about it and the Pakistanis
cooperated. It wasn't just a U.S. affair. But here's the problem. No
corroboration, no sources. It's impossible to check this story. It is a
story that looks like it was written by Lewis -- by Alice in Wonderland.
And it was written by Seymour Hersh. The White House, National Security
Agency, the CIA, everybody says there's nothing to this. This is wrong.
PERINO: I'm surprised that you said he's one of your heroes.
WILLIAMS: The guy -- the guy broke Mai Lai. He's a Pulitzer Prize winner.
PERINO: Seymour Hersh? Wow.
WILLIAMS: He's a Polk Award winner.
BOLLING: And Rob O'Neill refuted a lot of it. And Mike Morrell refuted a
lot of it.
WILLIAMS: Everybody. I'm saying, it's just...
PERINO: I refuted every Sy Hersh piece he wrote during the Bush
GUTFELD: Including his name.
PERINO: Who is he? OK, you're next.
BOLLING: I don't have one.
PERINO: What do you mean?
BOLLING: I had one, but the producer said "no."
PERINO: What was it? Was it a good one?
BOLLING: It was great.
PERINO: Let me tell you, you and Greg are like, "Woo" on this "One More
Thing." It's everyone's favorite segment, clearly.
GUILFOYLE: Check it out.
PERINO: Never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.
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