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Hannity

Pamela Geller faces off against Juan Williams over Muhammad event

This is a rush transcript from "Hannity," May 7, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

SEAN HANNITY, HOST: And welcome to "Hannity." Tonight, just days after Islamic terrorists targeted a cartoon contest in Garland, Texas, the organizer of that event, Pam Geller, came on this program to take on radical London imam Anjem Choudary, who, as you'll see in this next clip -- he called for Pam's death. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ANJEM CHOUDARY, LONDON IMAM: Let's be absolutely clear. We're not talking about Mickey Mouse or Donald Duck. You're talking about people who deliberately had a competition to insult the messenger, Mohammed (INAUDIBLE)

HANNITY: To make cartoons.

(CROSSTALK)

CHOUDARY: If you saw the cartoons ...

HANNITY: So you support the death...

CHOUDARY: If you saw the cartoons -- just bear with me, Sean. If you saw the cartoons that Charlie Hebdo drew, you would understand the anger.  And now this woman wants to draw cartoons or have people draw cartoons to insult the Prophet, knowing full well that this carries the death penalty in Islam.

HANNITY: You want her to die!

CHOUDARY: You know what? She should be put before a Sharia court and tried and...

HANNITY: She's not a Muslim!

(CROSSTALK)

CHOUDARY: ... of course, she will face capital punishment.

HANNITY: She's not a Muslim, Anjem!

I would retaliate if somebody insulted my own mother, let alone the Prophet, who I adhere, and you know, I love a hundred times more than my own family.

HANNITY: So if anybody says anything against your prophet that you don't like...

(CROSSTALK)

CHOUDARY: ... if someone attacked his mother. What about the Prophet?

HANNITY: If somebody says something about your prophet that you don't like, you want them dead!

CHOUDARY: Any prophet.

HANNITY: Your prophet.

GELLER: That fatwa that was issued against me -- my name is preceded by "conzeir (ph)." Now, conzeir means pig. It's the word Mohammed used before he slaughtered how many -- I should -- beheaded hundreds of Jews.

Does anyone really think that these jihadis would have just been peaceful, loving Americans?

CHOUDARY: OK, can I come back...

GELLER: Of course they wouldn't! I submit to you that...

CHOUDARY: First of all -- first of all...

(CROSSTALK)

GELLER: No, I'm talking, sir. I know you're used to stepping over women, but you're not going to have it here, OK?

CHOUDARY: Pamela, first of all, the word "conzier" I think is too good for you in the first place, you know? A least a conzier worships Allah. The fact is that you insulted the Prophet Mohammed (INAUDIBLE) and obviously, you knew the consequences. Otherwise, you wouldn't have...

(CROSSTALK)

GELLER: What do you mean I knew the consequences? I live in America!

(CROSSTALK)

GELLER: I live in America!

CHOUDARY: You talk about murdering innocent people...

GELLER: There are no consequences!

CHOUDARY: The United States of America are the champions of murdering innocent people!

HANNITY: You're pathetic!

CHOUDARY: We are the ones who are defending ourselves...

HANNITY: You're just pathetic.

CHOUDARY: ... Sean. Wake up.

HANNITY: You're just pathetic.

CHOUDARY: We defend ourselves in Syria and Iraq and Chechnya...

HANNITY: You're evil and pathetic.

CHOUDARY: ... in India, in Kashmir.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

HANNITY: All right, those threats from Choudary are probably the least of Pam Geller's concerns in light of the fatwa currently issued against her life by ISIS. And as of tonight, this threat is particularly concerning for Geller given that neither the FBI nor the Department of Homeland Security has reached out to investigate this threat, much less offer protection for her in any way.

Now back with us is the person at the center of this entire situation, author, columnist, Pamela Geller, as well as Fox News political analyst Juan Williams is with us.

So you have not heard at all from the FBI.

GELLER: No. I mean, we've extensively, you know, ramped up security.  I have a huge security team now. And various -- you know, I can't speak to what we're doing...

HANNITY: Right.

GELLER: ... for obvious reasons. But no. And look, Sean, it's a terrorist threat, and you're right, they should have. I've reached out to them. They did not respond to any of my communications.

HANNITY: You know, Juan Williams, whether you like what Pam Geller, the contest she had, or not, to me should be irrelevant. I hope you're not one of those "I support free speech but" liberals out there because I'm hearing a lot of "buts." We're talking about people that want to kill people over a cartoon, which in this country is absurd!

Where do you stand on this? And where do you stand on the FBI being, you know, missing in action?

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, look, I don't have any question in my mind. I'm someone who's been punished for speaking out...

HANNITY: Right. And I defended you.

WILLIAMS: ... you know -- you know -- I appreciate it, Sean. So I don't have any question. I think a lot of it is distraction. I mean, journalists, legitimate journalists cannot function, even people who are satirical like Charlie Hebdo, in a world in which you are threatened with death for what you have to say.

I will say this, though. I think if we want to have a serious conversation here about Ms. Geller, that she's like a pyromaniac who goes before the judge and says, Oh, yes, we're setting those fires just to see how fast the fire department can respond.

HANNITY: Whoa, whoa!

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: So you're taking the, Well, she dressed provocatively, therefore, she...

WILLIAMS: No, I'm not.

HANNITY: ... put herself in position -- a position...

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

HANNITY: Yes, you are! It's the same thing, Juan!

WILLIAMS: No, I'm not...

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Hold on, Sean!

HANNITY: You don't blame the victim of an attempted assassination!

WILLIAMS: I'm not blaming the victim! There is -- Sean, the victim is dead. In fact, the victim is the person who was trying to protect this event that Pam Geller put on quite intentionally. She intentionally was provocative in her actions. And you know, it's...

HANNITY: You're saying don't...

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: ... offend the sensibilities...

WILLIAMS: Let me finish this point...

HANNITY: ... of those that don't...

WILLIAMS: Hang on.

HANNITY: ... like cartoons. Don't offend the people that don't like a cartoon.

WILLIAMS: Let me finish this point. I think -- no, there's a woman up in Seattle, Molly Norris (ph). She's a political cartoonist. She was threatened. She's now in hiding, FBI protection. Why? Because the terrorists, the Muslims have gone after her, these Islamists...

HANNITY: Well, wait a minute!

WILLIAMS: You know, you think about somebody like Salman Rushdie...

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: He was doing literature. Pam Geller was doing nothing but intentionally trying to provoke this reaction.

GELLER: Let me (INAUDIBLE) Molly Norris had a "draw the Mohammed" contest. What's the difference? Incendiary...

WILLIAMS: She was doing political cartoons.

GELLER: Excuse me! I did not interrupt you! I did not interrupt your ridiculous remarks!

WILLIAMS: You asked a question, Pam!

GELLER: You're going to let me speak, sir! Incendiary? You know what is incendiary? The Jordanian pilot who was set on fire. That's incendiary. The idea that I'm provocative? No! Murdering cartoonists is provocative.

I held many free speech conferences. On the anniversary, on 2012, I held a free speech conference with Lars Vilks (ph), the cartoonist. We weren't attacked because they're emboldened now. They're stronger now.

What I find galling is that my motives are continually questioned by the media, not the jihadists' motives, not the jihadists' motives, my motives! What's her motive? What's her motive? Look at my work! For 10 years after 9/11, I have been opposing sharia and jihad, period. It's the media that have created these myths about me. But I ask you...

WILLIAMS: Everybody...

GELLER: Why haven't the media...

WILLIAMS: I think every...

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: Hang on. Hang on.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I have yet to meet an American...

(CROSSTALK)

GELLER: Why hasn't the media addressed this...

HANNITY: Let me jump in here...

(CROSSTALK)

GELLER: I have one question. One question. One question. Why hasn't the media addressed the motive behind the jihadists?

HANNITY: Well, I want to get into that. And Juan, I want to throw this to you. If a little cartoon is going to set off people to go kill other people and try and assassinate them, then you've got to believe that anything will set them off.

And I think this is part of what Pam was explaining here the other night. In other words, if you -- if the trigger is that short, they're going to attack us anyway. And we've got to be prepared that there are people that are so easily offended that this is -- this is the war that they are waging against us and our lifestyle and our way of life, and that we've got to be prepared that -- they also don't like Jews. They don't like Christians. Radical Islamists don't like a lot of things.

So if a cartoon will provoke them, they will be provoked, and there's nothing we're going to be able to say or do to stop them! And it's rather naive, I think, of people like you on the left to think you can stop them!

WILLIAMS: What are you talking about? We will stop them. I don't think -- the point is, we have stopped them. The point is that you have to go out and wage (ph) very clear lines and say, We do not believe in sharia law. We do not respect it. We are a country of civil, constitutional laws, and you have a right to free speech...

HANNITY: OK, but there's no "buts" to that, Juan!

WILLIAMS: ... in our country.

HANNITY: You can't say...

WILLIAMS: That's what I just said!

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: No, no. What I'm saying to you is -- for instance, Pam Geller just a moment ago said, Oh, they burned a pilot. The pilot was fighting a war. Those people acted in a barbaric fashion...

HANNITY: I'll give you an example...

(CROSSTALK)

GELLER: But I'm fighting a war!

WILLIAMS: No, let me finish...

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: ... someone who is pursuing a war...

GELLER: And you are enforcing the sharia! You are keeping (ph) jihad terror!

WILLIAMS: I thought you didn't like people interrupting you!

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: You just go over people. I think you are...

HANNITY: Juan...

WILLIAMS: ... about self-promotion, Pam Geller. You're not about the real problem...

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: Let me stay focused...

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: Let me stay focused here.

GELLER: ... all about attacks against me!

HANNITY: Pam, five years ago, there was a young girl, a Pakistan school girl who went to school knowing the threat. She got shot in the face. She ended up getting the Nobel Peace Prize. She knew there could be consequences, but she went anyway!

GELLER: Yes.

HANNITY: And my point is...

WILLIAMS: Sean, she was getting an education!

HANNITY: Excuse me! My point is that...

GELLER: I'm giving an education!

HANNITY: ... if a cartoon is going to set off somebody to kill, there's no negotiation there. There's no appeasing people that would react that way. And I think it's naive of you to think that if only we didn't have the cartoon contest, they would be nice to us. That's obscene to me!

WILLIAMS: No, but Sean -- Sean, listen, you have to engage and say, Listen, this is not the way that we as Americans live. We do not believe in sharia law.

GELLER: You do!

WILLIAMS: But then to go and offend someone's faith...

GELLER: You do! You are enforcing sharia law! You are enforcing sharia law! That's exactly what you're doing!

WILLIAMS: How?

GELLER: By making...

WILLIAMS: How are we doing that?

GELLER: By making me the bad guy!

WILLIAMS: Oh, my gosh!

GELLER: It was not just a contest.

WILLIAMS: Nobody...

GELLER: You don't -- you're not -- you are not even informed!

WILLIAMS: You are hurting...

GELLER: Excuse me, sir!

WILLIAMS: You are hurting...

GELLER: I am not!

WILLIAMS: ... our cause, is what you are doing. You are hurting people...

GELLER: I do not support your cause!

WILLIAMS: ... who say sharia law is wrong...

GELLER: I do not support your cause! Your cause...

WILLIAMS: ... by generating sympathy...

GELLER: ... is imposing sharia!

WILLIAMS: ... for these people...

HANNITY: All right, I got to...

WILLIAMS: ... who are so crazy!

HANNITY: I got to leave it there. Thank you both. Appreciate it.

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