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The Five

Baltimore police commissioner: We are part of the problem

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 6, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Jedediah Bila, Juan Williams, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

In his first interview since the Freddie Gray riots, Baltimore's police commissioner made a remark that is making some headlines. Anthony Batts says he knows there's mistrust for law enforcement and police nationwide must accept that they are part of the problem.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COMMISSIONER ANTHONY BATTS, BALTIMORE POLICE: There is a lack of trust within this community, period, bottom line and that's going to take healing. That's going to take us acknowledging as a police department not just here in Baltimore but law enforcement as a whole that we've been part of the problem. Community needs to hear from us that we see that we haven't been part of the solution and that we have to now evolve.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Meanwhile, America's new attorney general has some encouraging words for law enforcement yesterday. Here's Loretta Lynch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORETTA LYNCH, ATTORNEY GENERAL: You have picked a noble profession. You picked a hard profession, but you have picked one of the best professions out there, today. Because you have picked one that lets you go out every day and say, I'm gonna help somebody. And despite how people may want to choose to characterize you, hold on to that, as you go out on patrol every day. Now all of you who are on the front lines, I just want to say thank you.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: All right. I really like her tone and her comments and, Juan, I got to say that if the police commissioner in Baltimore is saying that they have a problem, I don't know if he's saying nationwide but, if he's saying there is a problem, maybe he's right. I mean -- then he is probably going to be one of the people that try to fix it.

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: I think it's important. You know it's such a divisive issue. Potentially, it's one that crippled -- paralyzing because, I think that there are people who see the police, as I do, as good guys for the most part, but understand that they are being put in a very difficult situation where they have to get involved with disorder, chaos and the like, and sometimes, you know their tempers get frayed and they do things that are unacceptable. So you can just divide everybody into two camps then (ph), but I think it's important that people who are pro police also say, you know what, there are steps that we can take to make sure that police are not put in untenable position.

PERINO: Is an answer that important to come from Washington, Eric, because -- if you believe in local control, as I do, if Baltimore has particular issues, they might not necessarily be the same issues that a Denver might experience.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: No, no, no doubt. I'm just curious why Anthony Batts -- Commissioner Anthony Batts would say that. It certainly not gonna well with the rest of his police department. They -- to say that they need to evolve and they've been part of the problem, I'm not sure that's the way you do it. Look, I'm not in law enforcement, but I would say, he is going forward, we will continue -- we'll continue to try and breaks the community, we'll try to diffuse the situations in a way that is susceptible to both. But to say that -- to kind of take blame already for Freddie Gray, maybe other -- other issues, that didn't seem terrible (ph).

WILLIAMS: I didn't hear him say take blame for Freddie Gray.

BOLLING: But, we have been part of the problem?

WILLIAMS: The part of the problem -- the overall problem, not Freddie Gray. Maybe -- that's not my (inaudible).

BOLLING: Well, Freddie Gray led to, to -- the reason -- the only reason why he is on TV.

WILLIAMS: You know I think this is part of the argument. You see this just in terms of Freddie Gray. I see a larger issue.

BOLLING: No, no, I think we had this discussion in the exact opposite last week. Where I said it is a probably a bigger issue, a lot of every pundit on TV, you see they are talking about incoming inequality.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

BOLLING: White privilege, other issues, lack of opportunity in the black community.

WILLIAMS: Right.

BOLLING: And you said no, this was all about Freddie Gray --

WILLIAMS: No, no, no. I think -- this is wild. I think it's about those kids who got out of school and took advantage of the situation, to start looting and acting crazy, and then there were people who piled on. And you said, hey, a lot of these people rested --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: One quick final thought, de Blasio was on TV this morning, and he was asked about what is going on in Baltimore, also what went on with Brian Moore's killing here in New York. And he -- he did a very nice thing, he said, look, we need to really embrace what is going on in our communities and we're teaching our law enforcement officers to do that and then he went one step further and said, but we still have this big problem with African- American kids of color and the police. Why do they have to bring it in? Why -- can they just solve the problem and not try -- you know, make excuses or, or blaming -- start pointing fingers at law enforcement? They have to stop doing that.

PERINO: But you have good insight Greg, into -- you've always complemented the NYPD for how they did integrate into the communities. Do you think what he is saying about de Blasio bringing this up again, do you think that's warranted?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I think what happen is you see political decisions being made when they, when they overstep. You can't be anti-police when a police officer just got shot in the head and was killed. All of a sudden, all of your romantic, progressive, anti-authoritarian notions don't work. Before, you -- I always look at this way, I -- conservatism is -- are like the two trees that keep the liberal hammock up. And once you start attacking those trees, which are basically law and order, personal responsibility and character, everything falls apart, the hammock can't hold. So as they are sitting there and they're watching the world crumble, and they're watching the police under siege and the police wondering, what are we doing this for? A cop gets shot. You're Mayor de Blasio. The cops don't like you, you're a progressive who is totally anti- police and has been. You demean the police then you've got to walk it back. He walks it back for the sake of his own Hyde. And I mean -- it goes back to this thing that drives me nuts.

We've had this thing in Baltimore. We've had this thing in Texas. When you talk about ISIS, you have people talking about bad apples among Islam. When you talk about the looters in Baltimore, you talk about the bad apples among protesters. When you talk about the police, you talk about the whole barrel. There are no bad apples. That's why I enjoyed Loretta Lynch coming out there and saying that despite these odd incidents, the justice system is not broken. Because whenever the left says something is broken, that's their way to break it more. It's the nature of career agitation to demolish without alternative. To go after a tradition -- to go after profession without a solution, because a solution is always revolution, you don't need to replace anything. So --

PERINO: Jedediah, I think that Loretta Lynch, so the new attorney general, is kind of the right attorney general at the right time. She brings a different tone and I think maybe they just needed somebody besides Eric Holder to start delivering some of these messages.

JEDEDIAH BILA, GUEST CO-HOST: Yeah, very different from what you would have heard from Eric Holder. There was a striking contrast. I think she hit the right tone. I think she was supportive of law enforcement while at the same time, you know suggesting that there is reform that could be made and I agree with you, Dana. I think the commissioner probably has the best sense of what's going on within the police force and on the ground, and he says, there are some changes that could be made, there are some reforms. I think what he was probably trying to suggest is, there is a bonding that needs to happen between law enforcement and the community. Something is not right here that's causing constant tension and constant conflict. I think for him to come out and say, we don't play a role in that, it's all up to you guys to fix the problem, would not have resonated well in that area and across the country. Given this is a problem that we are seeing part of everywhere. I think what he was saying is, we'll do our part, you do our -- you do your part, let's come together and fix this, and I appreciate to that matter.

PERINO: But here's part of -- maybe what is a problem on the other side, which is, there were developments today about the evidence regarding the knife and whether it was legal or not legal, city or state. Let's listen to the prosecutor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARILYN MOSBY, BALTIMORE PROSECUTOR: Officers Miller and Nero then place Mr. Gray in a seated position and (inaudible) found a knife flipped to the inside of his pants pocket. The blade of the knife was folded into the handle. The knife was not a switchblade and is lawful under Maryland law, as no crime had been committed by Mr. Gray. Accordingly, Lieutenant Rice, Officer Miller and Officer Nero illegally arrested Mr. Gray.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: OK. So that was last Friday, when she said that the arrest was illegal. But now, there is question because it looks like it actually was a legal arrest. What do you think of that, Juan?

WILLIAMS: As very interesting to me, I mean, this is -- this comes down to a knife. So apparently, you didn't have a button -- you know, from the old days where it just pops out, the blade pops out, but it has a spring in it and so when you start to pull it out, it comes out more quickly. So technically, Mosby tries -- it's not a switchblade, but it's a spring- assisted blade and as such, therefore, it would be illegal. I think under oath (ph) by the way, I think it's both Maryland and state law state --

PERINO: Right.

WILLIAMS: And city law. So, if that case have been -- if that's the basis of her decision that it was an illegal arrest, she's wrong.

PERINO: So then, Eric, where does that leave us?

BOLLING: Just not illegally --

PERINO: We basically ended up with that last week.

BOLLING: Look, there's no way Freddie Gray should be dead right now. We understand that --

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: I don't think there's anyone on either side of the aisle -- any side of the debate would disagree that Freddie Gray should not be dead right now. Whether it was an illegal arrest or legal arrest -- whatever, how he was treated, he shouldn't be dead. I'm concern about what happens afterwards. I -- for some reason, it's just not sitting right with me that this commissioner, Anthony Batts, what -- would go so far to say that take some of the responsibility, some of the blame, it just doesn't seem right, that's not what a commissioner -- police commissioner should do. It's not like Bratton, certainly, what Bratton didn't do that here in New York City. I don't why and I think it's gonna have some backlash in Baltimore. Are all these politicians, whether it's Rawlings-Blake, whether it's Mosby of this police commissioner, are they looking at different aspirations? Are they looking at higher aspirations in -- whether it's elected office, in Democrat party, I look -- are they looking other things or they are looking to solve the problem of Baltimore? We gonna solve the problem of Baltimore, I - I think they have the tools to do it without pointing the finger. Especially, commissioner -- I can't imagine your cops wanted to hear that today. I'm shocked that he did that.

BILA: I'm wondering if he's sensing a larger problem that he sees. In other words, all of these stories don't necessarily hit the news. We're talking about this one, because it hit the news. But I'm wondering if there is something that goes on the ground in terms of the interaction. He sees between the police and the community that bother him, that he feels, you know what, we can do better. Our -- we can do our part better than what we are doing. So that's I'm wondering if he's speaking to a larger division that he sees on a daily basis, that doesn't necessarily reflect just this case, but a bigger problem in the community.

WILLIAMS: And they're --

BILA: I don't know. GUTFELD: The bigger problem though, has nothing to do with the police department. It has to do with the chaos that was created by decades and decades of horrible progressive policies that kept throwing pointless programs and money at problems without actually saying what the problems are. The police are just -- the police are just us, in the front lines. They are the ones who are keeping the hell to come to your house. They got to go out and deal with it. So all they are dealing with is the crap that we don't see and every now and then, something bad happens. Something bad happens and then suddenly the press comes in, focuses on that one thing and then they use the word systemic. They find that one thing and they go --

PERINO: Yeah.

GUTFELD: This is systemic. This is systemic and this is the priority. Forget gang violence. Forget black on black crime, it's the cops.

PERINO: But when you point that out --

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: OK. When it -- it is pointed out --

GUTFELD: I'm racist.

PERINO: In Baltimore -- OK, this is the push back from Congressman Elijah Cummings from Baltimore.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ELIJAH CUMMINGS (D), MARYLAND: You know it's not about personalities, it is about policy. And you know and I know that a lot of the policies coming down from Washington, coming down from the state actually, too, but coming from Washington are not necessarily kind to urban areas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: So it's not local -- basically, if you're a critic of Baltimore, you can't win either way, because what he is saying is that, don't look at us, it's not our fault, it's all Washington's fault.

GUTFELD: Yeah. But then you have, people saying that this is a problem with government, but -- last time I check that 150 businesses that were looted were not HUD Offices. The Agent Shockey (inaudible) work in the DMV (ph), maybe concentrate on creating some kind of help for the productive in your population and not just create more graft and grip for bureaucrats.

WILLIAMS: Let me just say, you know I -- I was listening to you so intently because, when you said, in fact, what we do is we send the police in to make sure that the chaos and disorder doesn't come in to our communities, I thought you were speaking the absolute truth. So the question then becomes, under collar of authority and with the gun as the cops in there and we say, hey, keep that away from the downtown area --

GUTFELD: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: Keep that away from our businesses. Don't let my kids or my lawn get these crazy people. Are we saying you can do anything to the people in those communities where there's chaos?

GUTFELD: No. What I was saying is the cops often don't know what they are dealing with until they end up dealing with and every now and then, something bad happens. By the way, one of the -- one of the police officers had serious psychological problems. So you there's -- you have -- there are problems. You put them together in a volatile situation that has been there for decades, this happens.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: That you earlier --

BOLLING: What?

WILLIAMS: That -- you know, I think we put the cops in an untenable position on cases --

BOLLING: What you - what are you saying --

WILLIAMS: But you can't ignore it if the cop does something wrong.

BOLLING: What do you think Commissioner Batts just did? He just said we need to evolve. If you're a B-cop (ph) and you're walking on the main streets of Baltimore, that bad area where everything goes down and your, your commissioner just says I need to evolve?

PERINO: Well, maybe they'll have better approaches --

BOLLING: Really? I don't know about that.

PERINO: Maybe there are better approaches.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. What about the NYPD (ph) policing?

PERINO: There might be better practices you learned from somebody like --

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

BOLLING: Better approaches when there's a drug deal going down over there? --

WILLIAMS: No, no, come on.

BOLLING: Someone's got a gun in a belt strap (ph).

WILLIAMS: No, no, no, but that's a direct, simple approach. But I'm saying, community policing, knowing the community being involved --

BILA: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: Not just being somebody who shows up when there is trouble. That might be helpful, Eric?

GUTFELD: In terms of community policing, you need people from the community who are police.

WILLIAMS: Correct.

PERINO: Correct.

WILLIAMS: That's not bad but I -- even so, I don't care where you are from --

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: If the policeman has a relationship before the trouble, that's better.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: Agree. All right, we all agree, great. Ahead on The Five, ISIS makes threats to America and to the woman who helps organized the Muhammad cartoon contest in Texas on Sunday, details, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: So alleged ISIS jihadist are dead in the aftermath of the attack at Texas, draw the Prophet Muhammad event on Sunday, here's the organizer Pam Geller who has a history of provocative commentary, responding to her critics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAMELA GELLER, MUHAMMAD CARTOON CONTEST ORGANIZER: It's incredible. You know in the wake of the Charlie Hebdo slaughter, the media across Europe ran the cartoons and it was (inaudible) Charlie. Here it is (inaudible) jihad, I'm offended and libel, defamed, viciously by the media, every day. And I will tell you something, Sean, no matter how bad it gets. No matter how vicious, they will never get me to kill anyone.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLLING: And yesterday, ISIS allegedly put Geller on a kill list with this quote, "Our aim was the khanzeer, which is pig, Pamela Geller and to show her that we don't care what land she hides in or what sky shields her, we will send all our lions to achieve her slaughter." So, whatever you think in Geller, provocative insightful hate speech, doesn't matter. Free speech is protected in the constitution. Just as hateful (ph) first Baptist protesting fall in no tear here at their funerals is protected, so in America, as crazy as she may seem, people died for her right to say what she wants to say. Greg?

GUTFELD: I -- on my things, I love how many people are so concerned over -- suddenly, they're concerned over a provocative expression. These are the same people that would probably laugh at a contest to come up with a porn star name for Jesus Christ. They would think that a scream, but in this case is that like I -- look, I -- I've met Geller, she's was on Red Eye, she is a self-promoting pain in the rear. But so what? That's legal. You can't be killed for being a jerk or I would have been gone a long time ago. It's a very American exercise to do what she is doing. And by the way, how is this actually provocative? It's a private event that she did. It wasn't in your face. It's not even close to fighting words. People complain, it says it's like walking into a black church, you know dresses a clansman (ph). No, it's not. It was a private event. And besides, if a specific amount of extremists think that this is offensive or provocative, that doesn't make it provocative. It just makes them sensitive.

BOLLING: It will -- it did provoke --

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: ISIS, to put her up.

GUTFELD: Well, the great thing about that, the contest might have saved lives, because like a bug lamp, it drew those guys out.

PERINO: Yeah.

GUTFELD: They were going to inevitably attack somebody. They got them out and they were killed -- whoops.

BOLLING: Your thoughts?

PERINO: Well, I was just thinking -- I'm going to take a little bit different tactic. So in David Ignatius' column today in The Washington Post, he talks about these documents that are being slowly released from the bin Laden compound. And one of them is - talks about how bin Laden was looking for people that had more poetry background. If you listen to their propaganda, the way that they say that she's on a kill list is they making them to this big flowery language about skies that shield you and lions to slaughter. There's probably something to be learned here about the kind of recruitment that ISIS is able to do using language. And we should figure out a way to do that and counteract it.

BOLLING: Juan, are you surprised at the amount of people who are pushing back on Geller for having this? Honestly, it's -- protected by the first amendment as the Baptist church is protected.

WILLIAMS: As we all at this table are protected. In fact, that's what protects me from you --

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: In most days.

BOLLING: What is pro-Baptist to me? (ph)

WILLIAMS: No, no. I understand. I understand. But you know the thing is, I just had, I just come back to the idea -- it's free speech, I mean, she can do it. But do I think that it's provocative? That's where I different with you, Greg. It was clearly provocative and intended to be provocative and she knows that most Muslims would say that if you draw the Prophet Muhammad in this way, we are offended by. OK. So, she chose to do this and it maybe, like the bug lamp to draws the bad guys out. But she knew what she was doing. I don't think she's getting away from that.

GUTFELD: But it doesn't matter though. I can draw Muhammad in my house, so what?

WILLIAMS: Yeah -

GUTFELD: I'm not provocative.

WILLIAMS: it's not provocative --

GUTFELD: Not at all.

WILLIAMS: In other words, when you know that provocative is --

BOLLING: You know that it's not illegal --

GUTFELD: I don't even know what provocative means.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I mean, walking down Sixth Avenue naked, that's provocative. I've tried it.

(LAUGHTER) BILA: I'm not -- I --

BOLLING: Well, if that provokes to serve --

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: Level of it.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: I get a lot of free rides home.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: For people in blue and white car.

(LAUGHTER)

BILA: No, I mean, I think she -- I agree with you that I think she knew it will be provocative, but I think the point is that you have to be able to provoke. I mean, this is the United States of America.

BOLLING: Right.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BILA: No matter what you are provoking, that's our right to do it. Terrorists want us to be afraid, to do exactly what she just did. And one thing I have to give her credit for is that she does these provocative things and she have probably knows that these threats are coming her way. But she feels it's important enough to make that statement. That this is who we are and if you wanna, you know incite someone, that's what we are dealing, because that was freedom of speech mean.

BOLLING: Allow -- allow me to bring this around a little bit. Larry Wilmore pushed back on this -- some of the -- Donald Trump pushed back on this. Kind of surprising, people who should at least be defenders of her in this, I would think.

GUTFELD: This is Larry Wilmore's exact quote. He said, "Even if Pam Geller are human about free speech is valid" -- which it is. "She can still be a blank." I won't say what the blank is. If you -- he is basically -- if you reverse that statement, she can still be a jerk and her argument is valid, valuable. He -- what is he saying? Of course it's right.

BOLLING: I don't know where he -- what his basis of it is. Look, free speech is protected. Hate speech is projected. He might not like it, but it still protected.

BILA: Yeah.

BOLLING: Easy speech is -- doesn't even need protection. That's what the first amendment is.

PERINO: And remember, this is the same people that believe our government when they blamed the video on Benghazi and said that what caused riots, which wasn't true. Even when that was proved to be a lie, they still stuck by it.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: As if it -- as if speech can actually be blamed for violence.

BILA: Yeah. You know --

WILLIAMS: But wait a second. Remember when that guy -- it was Anthony, they went into St. Patrick Cathedral --

BOLLING: Yeah.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: And they were said they were having sex or something --

GUTFELD: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

BOLLING: I actually filmed it.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: You know too much.

(LAUGHTER)

WILLIAMS: I apparently he refrain. I don't know. In fact he -- he does all of this stuff. But I'm just saying --

BOLLING: I was at church at the moment.

WILLIAMS: Yeah.

BOLLING: I was praying, I saw --

WILLIAMS: He ran the church at the moment. Watch the nuns with you. But anyway -- I just -- I think that --

BOLLING: Wait a minute.

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: I just think that, that's a provocative -- I believe they got suspended for that, right?

BOLLING: Right.

WILLIAMS: OK. You could say, you could say to me --

GUTFELD: But wait --

WILLIAMS: Oh, that's not provocative.

GUTFELD: I made the point - I made that point earlier, it would be like going into a black church dressed like a clansman. But this is -- this is a private event. They didn't go into a mosque and start drawing Muhammad.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: You know what I'm saying? There is a difference -

WILLIAMS: You know --

(CROSSTALK)

WILLIAMS: Publicize?

GUTFELD: But it's not face-to-face. I'm not in your face.

BILA: So what? And so why it publicize?

WILLIAMS: I agree. You know, I just think it was intentional --

BILA: I mean --

WILLIAMS: But I happen to agree with all of you on the free speech point, because it protects me as a journalist. I think she's got be able to --

BILA: Like everyone.

BOLLING: We'll leave it right there. Ahead on The Five, a major deflategate development, the results of 103 day investigation are in. that the New England Patriots deliberately, manipulate the football, the January AFC championship game. Stick around.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BILA: Former President Clinton says people should live city (ph) as honest as his wife Hillary, but the fact of the matter is, most American don't think she still honest.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOHN HEILEMANN, JOURNALIST FOR NEW YORK MAGAZINE: Only 25 percent who view her as honest and straight forward and that is a crushingly bad.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Those are --

HEILEMANN: That is the kind of number you do not get elected president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BILA: She could still win though, according to Ron Fournier and she raises a troubling question.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RON FOURNIER, "NATIONAL JOURNAL": She could keep taking this lousy advice, and her trust numbers could keep going down, and her favorability numbers could keep going down. She could still become president, because Republicans might put up somebody who's even less trustworthy. But then what kind of president are you going to be when America doesn't trust you?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BILA: Dana, this issue of trust and transparency, this has been a huge problem for her. Isn't that a good point, though? If the Republicans don't put up someone...

PERINO: I would have asked -- I think I would have asked Ron, so who, even in the cast of characters of the 18 Republican candidates, who is less trustworthy than Hillary Clinton?

BILA: Good point.

PERINO: Who specifically are you talking about?

BILA: But...

PERINO: It could be that Hillary Clinton tries to define somebody -- her opponent as less trustworthy than her. Well, that will be a really interesting debate. Like a race to the bottom.

BILA: Right. But does this really matter to people? I mean, is it economy? Jobs? Do people look at the issues, or do they care about...?

PERINO: Well, I do think that every election is a character -- every presidential election is a character election. Chris Stirewalt of FOX News Digital, he always reminds people that, in the presidential election year, character and trust matter.

But John Homan (ph) is saying, and he's an expert, the trust numbers are very hard to reverse. And so I don't know if it's permanently crippling for her. I just don't see how she tries to improve upon them.

What they're trying to do is basically just ignore any of the questions. They put out a little video yesterday with the music behind it, as if that's supposed to make everyone think that everything is fine. Her number -- her poll numbers will probably remain pretty strong until the race gets more under way.

BILA: Juan, she's not explaining anything. She's not coming out and hitting this front and center and talking about her e-mails or talking about these foreign donations. She's not doing it.

So isn't she at some point, though, going to have to face these questions? She's going to have to do interviews and answer these questions. Is that when it's going to get tough for her?

WILLIAMS: First of all, the polls also show that most Democrats don't even know about this controversy. So it would be news to them if Hillary showed up and started talking about it, and so it's not in her interest to do so.

And, yes, in fact, even on this network, there are people who are right now looking for an interview with Hillary Clinton, saying why doesn't she come out?

But again, you come back to it. Look at the numbers in this "New York Times" poll that came out today. Her leadership numbers are strong; Democrats love her. Right?

BILA: Maybe that's because she's not speaking a lot.

WILLIAMS: I don't know.

BILA: Because we know when she does start talking it becomes a problem.

BOLLING: The reason why they haven't -- they've slid, but they haven't slid more is no one can ask -- she's been declared, what, 25 days now or so? She's answered two out of the seven questions that she's been asked in 25 days.

So when reporters or other candidates possibly get to ask her questions or point out things, then maybe the Democrats start listening. Unfortunately, they're not.

One more time, I'm going to do it again and every opportunity I can. The $1.6 billion the Clinton Foundation took in since 2008, only 12 percent has ended up in a charity, in a charitable grant or contribution. Maybe some has gone somewhere else, but in the meantime, only 12 percent or less of the money going to charity.

I want to know why the IRS is not investigating it. Charity Navigator put the Clinton Foundation and Al Sharpton's foundation on their watch list together, because they can't figure it out either. In my opinion, the trustworthy thing is going to take her out of the game.

BILA: Greg, I want to take a listen to what President Clinton has been doing.

GUTFELD: Me, too.

BILA: He seems to be reflecting a lot on this issue, particularly the book that's come out by Peter Schweizer. Take a listen to what he has to say.

GUTFELD: Let's do this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's just no evidence. Even the guy that wrote the book apparently had to admit under questioning that he didn't have a shred of evidence for this. He just sort of thought he'd throw it out there and see if it would fly, and it won't fly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BILA: Does that work? Does that work for you?

GUTFELD: We've been told this is a race to the bottom. For Bill, it's the race to somebody's bottom.

Look, Hillary is riding the news cycle like Kelly Slater on a breaking wave. She knows if she just holds back, something like Baltimore comes by, and then she's blown off the pages. And then the Texas terror attack comes. It's another thing.

She knows that, naturally, if she just lays low, she's going to ride that wave all the way to nomination, because there's always something worse.

By the way, nobody really expects trust in a career politician. That's like expecting a boulder to sing opera. So I mean, Russians don't trust Putin. But for some reason, they really like him. You can hold those two competing thoughts. I don't trust them, but I want them to lead.

BILA: Power.

GUTFELD: Yes. Power corrupts, Dana. I point out to you.

BILA: I really feel, Eric -- I don't know. But if the GOP can't defeat Hillary Clinton, given the fact that there is this distrust episode and given the fact that she really has no solid record to stand on, I think the GOP is troubled.

BOLLING: How interesting is -- is the debate going to be between Hillary Clinton, trying to answer some of these "we were broke" questions and where the money...

BILA: Yes, exactly.

PERINO: I think it will be really interesting to see how she answers both sides of the question, because now she's flip-flopped on trade, immigration and crime. So she can actually do the debate by herself. Like at herself. "What do you think of trade? Well, that's what I think. Immigration? That's what I think."

WILLIAMS: You know what? You know what you guys should do? You guys should just lay low. You should play like Hillary. You know why? Because Democrats hear all of this, and you know what they think? The Republicans are just trying to trash Hillary, because Hillary's beating every one of them.

GUTFELD: Then we should never be critical.

WILLIAMS: I don't know. I'm just saying.

BILA: Everybody just shut up. And we'll...

WILLIAMS: Calm down.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

BILA: Let's wait for her to do the interview. I have a feeling she's going to sink that ship on her own. (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

All right, coming up, a rather unusual and unappetizing suggestion from a former U.N. secretary-general to combat global warming. That's coming to you next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Former U.N. Secretary General Kofi Anan has a solution for global warming: turn grub into grub. In an interview, he said livestock is a major threat to climate and that, quote, "Eating insects is good for the environment and balanced diets."

Now, something tells me the restaurants he frequents aren't serving grasshopper. I don't see the Four Seasons serving poached beetle. I doubt Le Cirque has cockroaches on the menu, unless they fell from the ceiling. I don't think the Ritz Carlton will be folding earwigs into their egg whites.

Which leads me to my suggestion to those who say you should eat bugs or give up fossil fuels or trade in your SUV for a unicycle: you first.

Climate change sanctimony creates that unique sermonizing hypocrite who wants you to live like a caveman while they live like kings. So unless you're snacking on silverfish, Kofi, stuff it.

Besides, human ingenuity always proves such panic pushers wrong. In the 1970s, Paul Erhlich predicted that the population would outstrip food supply as the death rate from starvation would hit 200 million by the next 10 years. Others agreed, and they were horribly, horribly wrong. They must be disappointed. Proven idiots, they lacked any insight into human industry and creativity, assuming we're too dumb to adapt.

So Kofi, as much as we'd love to see you pick aphids out of your teeth: Play cricket, don't eat them.

So Jedediah, would you eat grub if you felt it would save the earth?

BILA: No. No, I would not. Although my dad -- I'm not a vegetarian. My dad ate chocolate-covered ants when he was a kid and told me that it's very tasty so I would be willing to try that. But this is...

GUTFELD: You fell for the chocolate covered ants?

BILA: No. He actually did eat them. I would try it. Anything covered in chocolate. I would.

PERINO: You used to be a vegetarian?

BILA: I was a vegetarian. But you know, the body wants what the body wants.

PERINO: That's true. Exactly.

BILA: It does.

GUTFELD: I think Woody Allen said that first, and it wasn't about chocolate.

GUTFELD: But no, you make a good point about...

PERINO: Let's go to Juan next.

WILLIAMS: You can't say anything about, you know, what she wants.

GUTFELD: Juan, why do these people who make these suggestions always exempt themselves? Like he's not going to go eat bugs, Kofi.

WILLIAMS: Well, you said it. I think it's pretty funny.

By the way, I hope that the Ritz Carlton isn't calling you when the show is over, but I think this is kind of silly.

GUTFELD: Yes.

WILLIAMS: You can say it's exotic food. I mean, as I said, I once ate a scorpion in China.

But my biggest experience with this recently was when Tony, my oldest child, my oldest son, he went to the beach one day. And so we're packing all the things in the back of the car, you know. And here's Tony with his lollipop, and it's been on the ground and it's covered with -- he just picks it up. I'm like, what is wrong with you? God, man.

GUTFELD: That's OK. That's roughage.

Eric, you're kind of a vegetarian.

BOLLING: No red meat. It turns out the -- one of these studies that was in our discussion here is that somewhere around -- well, let's put it this way. Livestock accounts for more greenhouse gases than transportation. So all the buses and all the green cars you're trying to push, you can point to the cattle flatulence is part of the big issue. I'm glad I'm not part of the problem there.

But I guess Climate Debunk...

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: ... did you see this website? It debunks the global warmers. They pointed out that I'm on the list -- actually, it might have been an alphabetical list. Whatever. I'm on a list of some very influential people. The Koch brothers, George Bush, Barack Obama, called global warming deniers. And we're responsible for the death of two scientists that apparently are lost somewhere, trying to find out if global warming really exists. So I'm aware that is a badge of honor.

WILLIAMS: You never answered the man's question.

BOLLING: What was the question?

PERINO: To Dana. Dana, my idea of a beetle sandwich involves Paul and Ringo, not actual beetles. Would you ever -- would you ever eat bugs?

PERINO: No. I would eat beef.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: I mean, what's really sad about Anan's global warming anonymous, but if you're in Africa, if you go to Sierra Leone...

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: ... let me tell you something right now. They need energy.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: Energy poverty is one of the biggest problems in maternal death during child birth. It's the reason they are not able to educate their children, because they don't have any electricity. They are basically being starved.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: And being told to eat bugs...

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: ... while, meanwhile, he gets to fly around on private jets like Al Gore's private plane. A big event on climate change and guess what they served on the plane?

GUTFELD: What?

PERINO: Beef.

GUTFELD: Yes, of course.

PERINO: Because that's what people want to eat.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: So find other ways to solve the global warming problem. And stop starving people around the world from energy and good food and nutrition, and help better their lives.

GUTFELD: You know what? You're talking about rich privilege. This people, rich liberal elitist privilege.

PERINO: Telling other people to eat bugs.

BILA: It's not just rich liberal.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BILA: It's some -- it's liberals. I dated a liberal guy that had one separate set of rules for me, and then when you looked at his life, he was driving a car that -- I mean, his car was broken down, and like you couldn't go two feet without it massively polluting the air. And he was lecturing me about the environment. So it's typical.

WILLIAMS: So, Eric, let me get this straight. Eric is a rich liberal, because he doesn't eat meat?

BILA: No.

BOLLING: Certainly not.

PERINO: I don't think Eric Bolling has ever told somebody else what not to eat.

BILA: That's exactly right.

WILLIAMS: Is that right?

BILA: He's a freedom guy, freedom-loving man.

BOLLING: Eat what you want to eat.

BILA: That's right.

BOLLING: Very tolerant of everything.

GUTFELD: Yes. Take Beano.

All right. The results are in from the NFL's Deflate-gate investigation. Did the Patriots cheat during the AFC championship game? Ahead on "The Five."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WILLIAMS: Here's a question some young folks may be grappling with. Should you get married before you've established a career? The authors of a book called "Marriage Market" suggest not to wed until you know what you want to be when you grow up. They say marriages are more likely to endure if people wait until they have more secure jobs, a stronger foundation for family life, you know, and know who they will be as grown-ups, their grown- up selves.

Now Dana tells me this is wrong.

PERINO: Well, who are you going to believe? Authors of this new book or my book, which I just found out is still No. 2 on The New York Times best- seller's list? Because I include this advice in my book.

I don't say that you should go out and get married right away because that's going to help your career, but what I do say is that choosing to be loved and to get married is not a career-limiting decision. It actually enhanced my life quite a bit, because I had somebody to help me along the way and to get over fears and be willing to make changes.

And I ended up as a White House press secretary. And then move up here, which was -- my inclination was like, "Oh, Peter, you won't want to move."

He said, "Let's go."

So for me, I actually think that marriage has been more important to my career success than anything else I've done.

WILLIAMS: All right. So here's where we differ. I wrote a book once and in the back of the book there was -- I think this is a principle point in your wonderful book. But I wrote -- I wrote, "You know what? You should graduate from high school, get as much education as you can. Secondly, you should get a job and build a resume and then think about marriage and only have children after you're married to build a family." So it will be all gradual.

So I think that the authors are right. You should wait. Don't get married when you're, you know, in high school or...

BILA: I mean, that sounds great, but you can't control when you're going to meet someone.

PERINO: Right.

BILA: And establish something that you're going to -- I mean, you could meet someone at 22 or you could meet someone at 42.

PERINO: Right.

BILA: That you feel like you want to spend the rest of your life with. And let's face it: I mean, I've had eight different careers already. I'm constantly changing, and I might still be changing.

PERINO: And you're only 23.

BILA: And I'm only 23. Exactly. Thank you, Dana.

WILLIAMS: I thought she was 19.

BILA: So you can't tie -- what you're saying sounds great on paper, and I think a lot of people would agree with you if they were to chart it out, but that's not real life. That's not how it works. You walk into a bar one night, and you meet...

PERINO: You follow your heart.

GUTFELD: Don't.

BILA: ... your hubby, and things happen.

You got married.

GUTFELD: Yes, but...

BILA: Didn't hurt your career.

GUTFELD: The phrase "follow your heart" is stupid. Look...

PERINO: What? What are you talking about?

GUTFELD: Follow your brain. Follow your brain. What's the big fear that drives most marriage? That you'll end up dying alone. So just get married in your late '70s. That will solve it.

By the way, I agree with Dana. I believe that getting married actually enhances your career, because it takes the focus off a lot of other stresses and allows to pursue other things, and you're kind of a team.

WILLIAMS: How old were you when you got married, Eric?

BOLLING: Thirty-five, maybe.

PERINO: Good age.

BILA: That's a good age, yes.

WILLIAMS: And how old was she?

BOLLING: Much younger than me. What is this?

WILLIAMS: I am asking you a question.

BOLLING: Younger than me. Substantially younger than me.

WILLIAMS; Oh, that's why you're embarrassed about it?

BOLLING: No, no. She [SIC] was robbing the cradle.

(CROSSTALK)

BILA: Be a gentleman, man. Juan.

WILLIAMS: This is between you and me.

BOLLING: Just for the record, for all you dudes out there right now wanting to hear about Deflate-gate, it's going to come up in the next segment.

WILLIAMS: Yes, in fact, it's going to come up right now, because "One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Time now for "One More Thing." Greg, you get to go first.

GUTFELD: All right. It's time for...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Greg's Sports Corner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Now, as you know, Alex Rodriguez, who plays for the Yankees, got into a bit of trouble for taking some sports enhancement drugs. And now he's off them, and now he's back to his normal self.

And here he is taking the field and he looks really good. He said without these enhancements, he has a bit of a problem. They're trying to get him up here. He's out, I believe, in center field. They told -- they asked him why he wore the cape. He just said he felt like Superman. Now he's taking the cape off and now he's trying to leave. There we go.

But anyway, we wish A-Rod the best. I believe that's his nickname.

BILA: Got it right.

BOLLING: He bulks up from...

GUTFELD: Yes, he does.

BILA: A little bit. A little bit.

PERINO: Juan, you're next.

WILLIAMS: Well, this is the story we're all talking about. NFL investigated Tom Brady and -- the footballs and found that Brady is at least generally aware of the deflated footballs that were used in that AFC championship game against Indianapolis.

NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell says he will consider discipline against the great Tom Brady. I think he's won four Super Bowls. This is a big story, given -- not only for fans of the New England Patriots but I think for all NFL fans.

BOLLING: He's got to know -- have more than just he may have been aware of it. He has to be implicated in the scandal.

WILLIAMS: They have -- they have texts. They have some texts between him and the people who were...

BOLLING: I bet you that he has no sanctions. Nothing happens.

PERINO: I'm going to go to dinner with you guys. You don't eat any meat.

BILA: I do. I'll go to dinner with you.

PERINO: I get to go next. If you like "The West Wing," "House of Cards," "Veep," and you like political fiction, you're going to want to check out my friend's new book. So Nicole Wallace, who is the co-host of "The View." She's a former colleague of mine and a good friend. She's written her third novel in a series. It's about the first woman president. This one is called "Madam President," and it goes really deep and reflects on Nicole's experience after 9/11 at the White House in September and October of those years. So pick up that book.

What's going on? The lights got bigger.

BOLLING: Those are mine.

PERINO: You're next?

BOLLING: There's a reason the lights went out.

PERINO: The lights went up; I couldn't understand what's going on.

BOLLING: So the weekend, I've been taking my son, Eric Chase, to different colleges, you know. The University of Miami last weekend. The college admission process is so stressful. You have no idea. These admissions counselors, officers, it's -- they have your son's future in their happened and it's really tough.

So I'm having this discussion with our stage manager, Alison DeBlois (ph), and she tells me she went to UVA, one of the best schools in the country. And I said, "Alison, were you recruited on an athletic scholarship? What's the story?"

She's like, "No, I got in."

I said, "What?"

She had a 4.0. Can you take a shot of her? Four-oh, valedictorian and coming out of UVA and now she works at FOX.

BILA: And soon to kill you.

PERINO: She's amazing.

BOLLING: The college process is stressful.

PERINO: It is true. Jedediah.

BILA: It's true.

All right. I have something. All right. A guy was snorkeling -- you have to see this -- snorkeling in the Colorado River. He comes across two skeletons sitting in lawn chairs. He thinks, "Oh, my gosh, I've stumbled across a crime scene." He reports it to the sheriff. It turns out some guy planted these here, thinking they were being funny. Apparently, they have sunglasses on. Every time I see this, I die laughing.

Who would do this? Obviously Greg Gutfeld is behind this. We all know it's just a matter of time before he fesses up.

GUTFELD: I have -- I don't have time for that.

BILA: We know you like underwater sports and this has you written all over it.

GUTFELD: Not in the ocean.

PERINO: In your bathtub? It's small enough for you?

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: All right. Set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

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