This is a rush transcript from "The Kelly File," May 1, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
MEGYN KELLY, HOST: Last night we promised you an interview with another source close to these officers now under arrest, one who has actually been working with them for years. Tonight in a "Kelly File" exclusive, a Baltimore cop tells us the officers' side of the story. He asked us to call him Mike and we agreed for his safety to disguise his identity.
Mike, thank you very much for being here. And so, you know all six of the officers involved in this case. How do you know them?
MIKE: I actually work with all of them.
KELLY: How many of them have you spoken with since the incident with Freddie Gray?
MIKE: I've spoken with two of them. They were actually pretty lengthy conversation.
KELLY: And they relayed to you their take on what happened with Freddie Gray in that van?
MIKE: They did.
KELLY: All right. Let's first start with whether they told you that they believed he was injured outside the van or inside the van?
MIKE: So, none of them actually have any knowledge that he was injured until they got to the station. You know, Freddie is always one of those types when you go to arrest him on the streets, he always puts on a show and what not.
So, you know, it wasn't anything out of the ordinary to them. And he you know, like I said, he showed nothing until they got to the station.
KELLY: So, Baltimore P.D. is very familiar with Freddie Gray, we know he has a long rap sheet but it sounds like you have familiarity with him, too.
MIKE: I do, I do.
KELLY: And when you say he puts on a show, what do you mean?
MIKE: He always acts, you know, extra (ph) out there on the streets. You know, he tries to just I mean, make a show, create a disturbance, get people watching what he's doing.
KELLY: So if he were in that van and shouting or jumping up and down, would that have been unusual?
MIKE: Absolutely not.
KELLY: Hmm. So you're telling me that these officers believed -- they're telling you they believed that he was fine until they found out -- there were four stops with the van, until the ultimate stop, the fifth was at the police station, until they got to the police, until they got to that last stop, that fifth stop at the police station, and realized that he wasn't?
MIKE: Yes, that's correct. They, I mean, he -- apparently they were saying that he asked for his asthma pump relatively soon, but, I mean, he was just a lengthy foot chase, which wouldn't seem out of the ordinary. But he made no indication that he needed any sort of medical attention or anything.
KELLY: Now, are these officers who were pursuing him or these officers who were inside the van?
MIKE: As far as what?
KELLY: That we're talking to you, that we're explaining what happened.
MIKE: I was talking to the officers that were actually pursuing him.
KELLY: Okay. So these are, you know, the guys on the bike, right? Because there were three guys on the bike who pursued him?
MIKE: That's correct, that's correct.
KELLY: So, did they have any knowledge really of what happened inside the van after they closed up the doors and the one officer drove away with Freddie?
MIKE: They had no indication at all. The only thing that they told me was that as soon as they put him inside the van, he started going crazy and, you know, banging his head fairly hard on the side of the wall, you know, trying to get their attention and the people in the neighborhood's attention.
KELLY: How did they know it was his head he was banging against the wall of the van as opposed to his elbow or anything else? Could they see him?
MIKE: I mean, they couldn't really -- I guess it could have been something different. But I mean, you got to figure he was handcuffed behind him. So, it really couldn't -- I mean, I guess it could have been his elbow but, you know, they were just guessing it was his head.
KELLY: OK, and how did they describe it?
MIKE: They just describe it as a constant like knocking, you know, the wagons that we use, it's pretty much a Ford like econo-line van or you know, Chevy van and there's a big, it's like, they put a metal box inside of it. So you have, there's a divider that runs down in the middle. So, you have essentially two sides to the wagons. One on the left and one on the right. And there's a bench that runs parallel, you know, that runs lengthwise of the wagon. So, you know, it's pretty tight quarters in there, so.
KELLY: Why wouldn't they have put the leg shackles on him right from the beginning and/or buckled him in right from the beginning?
MIKE: Well, as far as the leg shackles go, I mean, it's not uncommon a lot of times where especially in the city, you know, people are always, you know, don't snitch, snitches get snitches, that type of thing out there. So you know, people put on a show to make it seem as if they're not going to work with the police. So a lot of times when they're around their friends and what not, they're going to put on that show. But as soon as you get them isolated, put them in the vehicle, get them out of that situation, they usually for the most part calm down. So the officers didn't probably put the shackles on him because they're figuring that he's going to calm down once they get him in the wagon.
And as far as the seat belt, I mean, it's -- I mean I guess for policy you're supposed to put the seat belt on but it's unsafe for the officer to actually get inside of the wagon to put the seat belt on a suspect that's, you know, being combative, being you know, very aggressive. Because I mean, there's just a potential that the officer is going to get injured by doing that, you know, it's such close quarters, the officer could get spit at, you know, their ear bitten, just different things that would make them not want to get up in that close quarters when someone is being combative.
KELLY: So, when the passenger is being compliant, normally, would the protocol be to put the seat belt on? But when he's not being compliant, normally would it be, you don't?
MIKE: Well, the protocol is, you know, one way you're supposed to put the seat belt on. But I mean, for the most part like I said, if they're compliant, the seat belt's going on them because there's really no -- I mean, there's always a potential danger for the officer but the officer has a little bit more comfort being inside the back of the wagon in order to put the seat belt on. That's something that's going crazy.
KELLY: It doesn't always happen. Now, so those officers maintain that when Freddie Gray went into that van, he was walking of his own accord? Because I understand that there's been a leaked medical examiner's report that suggests Freddie Gray's injury that led to his death occurred inside the van. That was the conclusion we've heard so far at least reportedly from the medical examiner. And some people on the streets of Baltimore have rejected that based on the limited snippets of videotape they've seen saying, he wasn't using his legs before getting into the van. Now, we've seen videotape where he was standing and appears to be stepping into the van which would contradict that challenge. But what did these officers tell you?
MIKE: Exactly. You know, it's one of those things where he was quoting on the show, as they were taking him to the van, but the video shows clear evidence that he was standing and he got into the van on his own accord. Now, he wasn't thrown into the van. He wasn't, you know, brutally placed into the van. He got into the van on his own accord.
And, you know, just to say something straight about Freddie himself, I mean, going back to the snitches get stitches things, Freddie was one of those ones where a lot of times he would put on that show on the streets but you bring him in the station and he was a great witness. I mean, he helped the department solve many crimes and different acts of violence. So it wasn't uncommon for Freddie to do that type of thing and then go into the station.
KELLY: That's interesting. That's new information I had not yet heard. According to these officers, was there any altercation between them at all other than, you know, placing the suspect under arrest? In terms of, did they hit him?
MIKE: Absolutely not. They told me that, you know, they chased him because he ran and the place that he ran from, I mean, it's a place where he's commonly been locked up for selling drugs out of that alley. That, you know, it wouldn't surprise me that the reason that he ran was he was probably dirty, he was probably selling drugs and at no time did they say they used any use of force.
KELLY: Did they say why they arrested him in the first place? Because they've come under criticism saying, well, they looked at him, they said, he looked at them and then he ran. There's no crime against doing that. If that happened between me and a police officer, he wouldn't have the right to place me under arrest, even if he then found a switch blade on me, which was the second part of the story.
MIKE: Correct. I mean, one thing that they're taught is unprovoked flight. You know, he ran, which at that point -- unprovoked, the police didn't throw rocks at him, the police didn't, you know, threaten him in any sort of manner. When Freddie saw the police, he ran, which is unprovoked flight. So the officers have every right to pursue him to find out why he was running for.
Just so happens that when they got to him, he had a switch blade on him. Whether that's the reason he ran, you know, I don't know. He could have had drugs. It's not an uncommon thing that when, you know, the people that are running, if the dealers that are running, if they throw drugs, if we can't find him, we can't charge him just because they ran. We have to have some sort of crime.
KELLY: Right. So, what was he's being charged with here?
MIKE: He was charged with a switch blade, I guess, is what they ended up charging with him with. But it doesn't mean, I mean, my personal guess to this and this is just me speculating, is that he was committing some -- he was distributing narcotics in that alley.
KELLY: Uh-hm. And was he known to do that in this particular area?
MIKE: Oh, yes. That's where he's been locked up numerous times in that exact alley that he began running from, he was locked up for distributing narcotics.
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