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Fox News Sunday

Rep. Donna Edwards, Freddie Gray family attorney on bridging the gap between race and justice; Gov. John Kasich considers presidential bid

This is a rush transcript from "Fox News Sunday," May 3, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

CHRIS WALLACE, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I'm Chris Wallace.

Six Baltimore police officers now face charges in the death of a young black man.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MARILYN MOSBY, BALTIMORE STATE'S ATTORNEY: The findings of our comprehensive, thorough and independent investigation has led us to believe we have probable cause to file criminal charges.

MICHAEL DAVEY, POLICE UNION ATTORNEY: We believe these officers will be vindicated as they have done nothing wrong.

WALLACE: We'll have a live report from Baltimore. And we'll discuss the case with Maryland Congresswoman Donna Edwards, and family attorney, Billy Murphy.

And from Ferguson to New York City to Baltimore.

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We as a country have to do some soul-searching. This is not new.

WALLACE: Our Sunday group joins the debate over race and justice.

Then, leaders across the country try to bridge the gap between law enforcement and the communities they serve.

GOV. JOHN KASICH, R- OHIO: You want your children to be safe. You want your families to be safe. We know that.

WALLACE: We'll talk with Ohio governor and potential 2016 candidate John Kasich, who just named a board to develop statewide police standards.

Plus, my special trip to West Point, to discuss the history and future of the United States Military Academy.

All, right now, on FOX NEWS SUNDAY.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALLACE: And hello again from FOX News in Washington.

Well, a terrible week of rioting in Baltimore has ended with the filing of criminal charges against six police officers in the death of 25-year-old Freddie Gray. We'll discuss the case with a congresswoman and the lawyer for Gray's family in a moment.

But first, FOX News correspondent Doug McKelway is outside Baltimore City hall with the latest -- Doug.

DOUG MCKELWAY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Hi, Chris. It was another quiet night in Baltimore as the 10 p.m. curfew took effect. The combination of that 10:00 curfew, in conjunction with more aggressive policing, and also the charging of those six police officers has brought a greater sense of calm to the city of Baltimore, with only 20 arrests as of 11 p.m. last.

Still, in a rally at city hall yesterday, we heard some provocative rhetoric. One speaker invoking the words of Winston Churchill, we'll fight on the beaches and the hills, in the cities, we shall never surrender. Another speaker cited the case of Allan Bullock (ph), an 18-year-old who was photographed in "The Baltimore Sun", smashing in a police car window with a traffic cone. His parents after seeing that picture urged their son to turn himself in. He did just that. But he's now facing $500,000 bail and potential of eight years in jail. That while other arrested rioters were merely set free.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We cannot allow them to tear democracy up in our face while we pay for it. When is a man's life worse less than a damn car window? A car window. And he turned himself in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKELWAY: The six police officers charged in Freddie Gray's death have been released on bonds, ranging from $250,000 to $350,000, all that while many in the law enforcement community say this was a rush to judgment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVEY: In my 20 years' career as a law enforcement officer and 16 years as an attorney, I have never seen such a hurried rush to file criminal charges, which I believe are driven by forces which were separate and apart from the application of law and the facts of this case as we know them.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCKELWAY: Separately, last night, a New York City police officer was shot in the head. As he chased down an armed suspect. That officer is hospitalized in an induced coma. Here in Maryland, Governor Larry Hogan is calling for a day of prayer and peace. Chris, this is a city that badly needs that.

Back to you.

WALLACE: Doug McKelway, reporting from Baltimore -- Doug, thanks for that.

Now, let's bring in Maryland Congresswoman Donna Edwards.

Congresswoman, welcome back to FOX NEWS SUNDAY.

REP. DONNA EDWARDS, D-MD.: Thank you.

WALLACE: Let's start with State Attorney Marilyn Mosby's remarks as she charged those six police officers in this case.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MOSBY: To the people of Baltimore and demonstrators across America, I heard your call for no justice, no peace. Your peace is sincerely needed as I work to deliver justice on behalf of this young man.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Congresswoman, is that too political for a prosecutor. Rather than seek justice for the demonstrators or Freddie Gray, shouldn't she just be seeking justice, period?

EDWARDS: No. What she was really saying is that she really wanted the process to begin and for people to understand what that is so that the city and all of our cities could be at peace and in calm. I think she did an amazing job in laying out the reasons for a probable cause finding. This is the beginning of a process, not the end of it.

WALLACE: All right. People were also surprised, and Doug McKelway mentioned it, how quickly the prosecutor moved. The fact she didn't take it to a grand jury.

Here is the lawyer for the police union.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVEY: I believe that the publicity in this case is driving force to a rush to judgment and causing this prosecution to move so quickly.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: I know that the city was on edge. I know that bringing these charges has apparently calmed things down, but did the prosecutor move too fast.

EDWARDS: No. First of all, there's not a requirement to go to a grand jury. The prosecutor, state's attorney Mosby, had been looking at the case for a week. She received the finding of homicide. Then she acted.

Again, it's a probable cause finding. It's the beginning of a process. There's been no judgment made. There's a long process in between now and the charges being filed and a criminal proceeding going forward.

WALLACE: Let's talk about the Baltimore police. A "Baltimore Sun" investigation found that over the last four years, more than 100 people won $5.7 million in court judgments and settlements in police brutality claims.

Is there a problem with the Baltimore police?

EDWARDS: Well, I think Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake recognized there were some issues long before this incident. She's asked the Department of Justice to look at their policing practices. And I think that is going to be a more intense look now.

But I would say there's an over-policing going on. Not just in Baltimore but really across this country. And that's something we have to evaluate as a matter of public policy --

WALLACE: What does over-policing mean?

EDWARDS: Well, what it means is that, you know, if you have communities where the only face of government that they see is law enforcement. It's not investment in their schools, it's not investment in their communities and economic development. It's law enforcement. That's not the fault of police. That's the fault of policymakers who are making decisions about where our priorities.

WALLACE: OK. Well, let's talk about that, because whenever have you riots, people talk about the underlying conditions. And there's no question that Baltimore, the city of Baltimore, has serious problems. Let put them on the screen.

The violent crime rate is four times the national average. Unemployment in Freddie Gray's neighborhood in Baltimore was 21 percent. Seventy-two percent of eighth graders score below proficient in math.

Now, a lot of people, frankly, conservatives, have pointed out that Baltimore has not had a Republican mayor in 50 years. Is it unfair to say that the liberal policies have failed the city of Baltimore?

EDWARDS: No. I think it's unevenly spread. I mean, I would say, for example, with our schools, just prior to the Freddie Gray incident, Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake was actually prevailing upon our Republican governor to release money for school funding.

When you have schools that are operating in the 20th century, and we're trying to prepare our children for the 21st century, even those children know they are not educated in the right way. I think that that is a baseline for how we can revitalize communities so that it's not -- we're not investing in economic development only in the areas where we get tax abasements but we're investing in other areas in the community, our small businesses and our education system and job retraining.

WALLACE: But, Congresswoman, if I may, it's not a matter of money. One of the things that we learned this week is Baltimore spends the third highest although per capita on its public school. Baltimore was already spending plenty on public school and the schools were still lousy.

EDWARDS: Well, I mean, there's uneven spending in the public schools. And I would say to you -- I mean, even the school that let out where the riots first began, there was a student who was interviewed who said, I'm looking at a book that's 20 years old. How does that prepare her for the 21st century?

So, I think we have a lot of questions to ask. They're not just -- they're not questions that are only for Republicans. They're questions for Democrats and Republicans about where we're going to make investments in our communities so the only investment we make isn't on the back end on law enforcement.

WALLACE: All right. Finally, if there was one right moment this week in Baltimore, perhaps it was the video, it's up on the screen, that went viral of Toya Graham slapping her 16-year-old son Michael, and telling him, get off the streets.

You wrote an article this week about black mothers and having, what you called, the talk, with your son. What's the talk?

EDWARDS: Well, the talk is that, you know, prospectively, any interaction, we want to make sure our sons are safe, but more importantly, I felt that was a moment.

But the bright moment were all those community leaders and the community itself coming in to clean up its community, to engage in peaceful demonstrations, and to say, we want our community back. Those were bright moments.

WALLACE: When you say the talk with your son, what is it you tell your son about interacting with police?

EDWARDS: Well, I say to him, if you have an interaction with law enforcement, then make sure that it is respectful, make sure that, you know, you don't put your hands anyplace that law enforcement officers can't see, that you don't make any sudden movements.

And I think, you know, that's a conversation -- I want to have that conversation with my son. I didn't. But starting in about middle school, I did, because the most important thing for me is that he's safe. And we come from a middle class family. And so, if I'm having that conversation, imagine the interaction with other -- that other mothers and fathers are having with their sons and daughters, too. But we have to change this, not on the back end, but on the front end with education.

WALLACE: Congresswoman Edwards, thank you. Thanks for coming in today.

EDWARDS: Thank you.

WALLACE: We invited officials from Baltimore police union to join us today, to give their side of this case. But they declined our invitation.

Now, back to Baltimore, where Billy Murphy, attorney for the Gray family, joins us.

Mr. Murphy, the police union called for a special prosecutor in this case, even before Marilyn Mosby issued her charges, and a couple of points that they made. One, they said that you contributed to her campaign. And also, that you were on her transition team. They say that's a conflict of interest.

Would a special prosecutor, at least, erase that doubt?

WILLIAM "BILLY" MURPHY, JR, FREDDIE GRAY FAMILY ATTORNEY: You know, we never heard these conflict of interest charges during the last state's attorney administration. I was on his transition team, too. And we never heard these kinds of conflict of interest charges ever before in the history of Baltimore.

I think that because the police are now on the side of the -- on the opposite side of the prosecution, we're hearing this kind of stuff for the first time. And it's interesting that the police union itself contributed almost as much money as my son did. The contribution didn't come from me. It came from my son. So, they evidently were on the s same side on the political fence when Marilyn Mosby ran for state's attorney, but sour grapes prevailed.

WALLACE: OK. Let me ask you about another aspect of this. There's also talk about moving the case outside Baltimore, a change of venue, especially after the comments I just played of Marilyn Mosby about seeking justice for Freddie Gray. What are your thoughts about that?

MURPHY: That would be unprecedented because before you can take a case out of the jurisdiction where the crime took place, you have to prove that you can't get a fair and impartial jury in Baltimore. And that's actually not an opinion process. It's an empirical process, where you test the jurors by asking them significant and pointed questions about the ability to be fair as jurors. Only if you can't do that should this case be moved.

Now, there are people that don't want it in Baltimore because they see everything through a racial lens. But these police officers were both black and white, and so, there's no reason to move it outside of Baltimore.

WALLACE: Now, we have seen a number of cases where police officers are charged and then when it gets before a jury, they are reluctant and sometimes refuse to convict police officers.

Are you and Freddie Gray's family willing to say that you will accept the verdict of a jury of 12 peers regardless of what it is?

MURPHY: We've been saying that repeatedly. We haven't asked for a particular verdict. We have said that we want justice. And whatever justice is will be determined by a jury of 12 people selected from this community who have indicated to the satisfaction of the presiding judge that they can be fair and impartial in this case.

We can do that in Baltimore just like it's been done all over the country.

WALLACE: And what if the verdict comes down and all those six officers are found not guilty?

MURPHY: I'm not going to speculate about anything, because it doesn't do any good. We have a process. That process is going to be handled fairly and impartially just like every other case in Baltimore is normally handled. I have confidence in our judiciary that can it be handled here and in the proper way.

WALLACE: Last question. Some people, because they're not taking quite the reserved position as you are -- as you well know, some people on the street in Baltimore are saying, look, if these six officers aren't all convicted that the riots in Baltimore will be even worse than it was this week. Is that the way the criminal justice system is supposed to work, sir?

MURPHY: Well, you're not talking about a criminal justice system when you're talking about one day of rioting and a week full of tension and anticipation incorrectly that there would be more rioting. We don't like it in Baltimore when you say there's been a week of rioting.

And number two, the problem is a very deep problem. It can't be satisfied about labels -- or by labels of left and right. These are children who have been neglected. They don't have parents because mainly the war on drugs is a war on black people suspected of having drugs.

And whites in this town just like in major cities across the country who have the same amount of illegal drugs, except they use them discreetly and don't get prosecuted, they're about 91 percent, 92 percent of the cases in Baltimore City, probably more, where only blacks and browns are prosecuted for drugs. That has to be addressed.

And we have to end this terrible war on drugs which has never been successful and which does nothing but creates over-incarceration of black men who could be fathers and it destroys black families in so many ways.

So, you're right to point out in some ways that money is not the answer. Part of the answer is that we have to create a city where kids get raised properly, and when they are neglected, that we take care of that problem because they're just kids.

WALLACE: Mr. Murphy, thank you. Thanks for talking with us, sir.

Up next, with a decision to charge those six police officers, will the situation on the streets of Baltimore calm down? Our Sunday group joins the conversation.

Plus, what would you like to ask the panel about the riots and charges against police? Just go to Facebook or Twitter @FoxNewsSunday, and we may use your question on the air.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARILYN MOSBY, BALTIMORE CITY STATE'S ATTORNEY: To the youth of this city, I will seek justice on your behalf. This is a moment. This is your moment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Baltimore state's attorney Marilyn Mosby raising some eyebrows with comments she made after announcing criminal charges against six police officers in the death of Freddie Gray.

And it's time for Sunday group: FOX News senior political analyst Brit Hume; Sheryl Gay Stolberg, who's been reporting from Baltimore this week for "The New York Times"; syndicated columnist George Will; and FOX News political analyst Juan Williams.

Sheryl, "The Times" spoke with Mosby just after she announced the charges against those six police officers. How does she explain what some observers think were excessively political remarks?

SHERYL GAY STOLBERG, NEW YORK TIMES: You know, I think you have to look at her in the context of who she is. She's a 35-year-old black woman. She's the daughter and granddaughter of police officers. She grew up in a tough neighborhood in Boston, saw her own cousin killed on her doorstep.

So, she is someone who would say to you, look, I know both sides. I come from a family of police officers but also as a black woman, I've experienced harassment by police. So, I see the good and the bad. She says, does that shape me? Do I have a certain perspective? Yes, I do.

WALLACE: We ask you questions for the panel and we got several about exactly this issue. Now, Nathan Springstead writes on Facebook, "Do you believe this is a -- this is politically driven to appease the city residents?" And Docteb tweeted this, "Seems like the mob is dictating that these cops be punished. They don't care about due process. Will they get a fair trial?"

George, how do you answer those viewers?

GEORGE WILL, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: When Ms. Mosby says I have heard your call, and she's referring to demonstrators around the country, "no justice, no peace", that does inject a kind of plebiscitory element into the criminal justice system that shouldn't have any of that.

On the other hand, the police have under a policeman's bill of rights negotiated by their union in the state of Maryland, they have a right not to answer any questions for ten days after an incident such as this. It said she should have gone to a grand jury. I don't know why. The old axiom is that the grand jury can -- you can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich. It's not a real protection of individual rights.

What is very interesting is the specificity with which she laid out findings already. That is, in the 45-minute ride in which Mr. Gray was in the van be, she says it made four stops. And after the first stop, she said she suffered a spinal cord injury as a result of, her words, as a result of him being shackled at the ankles and unrestrained in the back of the van.

That's an awful lot of information. And it would be interesting to know, and in fullness of time, we will know where it came from.

WALLACE: Juan, your reaction to that and your reaction to this concern that when she said, I've heard your voice and we're seeking justice for Freddie Gray, that it makes it sound like she's responding to the street.

JUAN WILLIAMS, FOX NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, no, you know, I differ with George. I think the politics, of course, plays a role in all of our functions. I mean, obviously, she's an elected official. She's not their appointee or something like that. She's an elected official.

And I think it's appropriate that people are aware of the larger social context here, which is that there is a standing grievance in the black community, especially among poor, black people, about treatment by the police. I mean, let's cut to the chase here.

The reality is you have concentrated areas of poverty in this country, extreme poverty. You put up some numbers before that, how impoverished that neighborhood is in Baltimore, school dropout rates, unemployment and the like. And then we ask police to go in there, and deal with the chaos, the disorder, extreme violence that's part of those communities. It's very difficult to put police in that position.

But once you do, the question is then, is it fair for police to -- well, be abusive, be brutal in treating those people? And, of course, the political structure that George was talking about just a moment ago, has often said, they are our blue line against that chaos spreading, affecting downtown business districts and middle class neighborhoods.

But the reality is, you go back to the Moynihan report, Chris, almost 50 years ago now, Daniel Patrick Moynihan had it right. The breakdown of the families, high, single-parent families, that's who those kids were rioting in Baltimore this week, who set that city on fire.

STOLBERG: If I might just interject and follow up on Juan -- Marilyn Mosby ran on a platform of pursuing police misconduct aggressively. This has been an issue in Baltimore long before the death of Freddie Gray. It's an issue that the police commissioner and the mayor, both of whom are black, have grappled with. And people in Baltimore who are concerned about police treatment of black men, campaigned aggressively to oust her predecessor.

So, this was on the table. The table was set when she was elected in November and she's only four months on the job.

BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: That does not relieve her -- that does not relieve her of the responsibility in any individual case to view it with impartiality. When she says that she did the other day, she's working, quote, "to deliver justice on behalf of this young man," she's talking, of course, about the victim Freddie Gray, she's basically suggesting to anybody listening that she is in a sense, representing him and his case. Not representing the people of Baltimore, all the people of Baltimore, but this young man.

Now, the context of that was such that she clearly was trying, by her words, to quell the violence in the streets. That's understandable. But I think, perhaps, not at the -- to the extent she -- as far as she went to suggest that she's already -- she came into this to some extent with an agenda and her mind made up.

WALLACE: Sheryl, how do you respond to that?

STOLBERG: I think some people in Baltimore do think that she was trying to quell the violence in the streets. One lawyer who handles police brutality cases said to me, she probably saved the city a lot of stress. In fact, we did see a clear change in the mood in the city of Baltimore yesterday. A protest last Saturday turned violent. This was before Monday night's riots.

Yesterday in the streets of Baltimore, there was almost a celebratory feel. I certainly can't speak to whether that was Ms. Mosby's intent. But that is clearly the result.

HUME: Well, there are other inputs here as well. When the rioting began, the police went in the opposite of the way they originally went into Ferguson. You remember, that was thought to have gone so badly. The police went in too heavy. They were over-militarized and arrest them.

It was thought that didn't work very well. Well, they went in light in Baltimore the first light and they stood back and allowed looting, arson, and so forth to go on right under their noses. That didn't work very well either. Once the force was built up, the National Guard was brought in, the riots gradually began to die down. This may have, you know, helped them end it finally, but there was more to it than this indictment for --

(CROSSTALK)

WILL: The fact that this -- we're having this discussion about the political content of this whole process indicates we're setting up a very delicate decision and we know it can go wrong. That is whether or not you can get a fair -- can be a fair trial here for these six officers, three white, three black, or whether there should be a change of venue. In the Rodney King beating in Los Angeles, they decided to change the venue. They moved the trial to Simi Valley.

STOLBERG: I was there.

WILL: A suburban place where a lot of LAPD police officers lived. The officers were acquitted and the fact that it had been the trial had been conducted in Simi Valley may have led to some of the worst rioting in American --

(CROSSTALK)

STOLBERG: I actually covered those --

WILLIAMS: Well, actually, that's what we see with Staten Island, where you had a video of a man being choked and yet, there's no grand jury indictment. So, you have a situation here where she could have decided to go to grand jury, she could have charged as she did, or she could have declined.

But she said she had a thorough process, that's what she said -- thorough and comprehensive. So, to my mind, what's important here is under due process, which is what I hope the policemen get, black and white police involved here, is that there'd be transparency and speed to this process.

And that is delivering, I think, on an American promise back to our Constitution that there should be speed and transparency and fairness in the delivery of justice. And that's what I think a lot of people in the black community feel. There has not been with respect to the way poor black people are treated --

WALLACE: I would only add one other thing to that in whatever this process -- impartiality.

All right.

WILLIAMS: That's fairness.

WALLACE: OK.

We have to take a break here. We'll see you a little later.

Up next, Ohio Governor John Kasich on the advisory board he just created to bridge the gap between the police and the communities they serve. Plus, with three more candidates about to enter the Republican race for president, we'll ask if he'll join the growing field.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: A look outside the Beltway at Cleveland, Ohio, the state led by our next guest. This week it was Baltimore, but the divide between law enforcement and the communities they serve is a problem across the country. After a series of fatal police shootings in Ohio, Governor John Kasich has created an advisory board to develop the set of standards for police. Joining us now to discuss that and a potential run for the White House, Ohio Governor John Kasich. Governor, welcome back to "FOX NEWS SUNDAY."

GOVERNOR JOHN KASICH, R-OHIO: Always good to be with you, Chris.

WALLACE: Everyone remembers the case of Tamir Rice, that 12-year-old boy who was playing with a pellet gun, we are playing the video right now, and was shot by Cleveland police, how will the board that you've set up after having a task force examine this for month, how will that board prevent tragedies like this, sir?

KASICH: Well, Chris, first of all, what we did is we appointed a panel that was very diverse. The chairman -- one of the chairman of the panel is the former head of the highway patrol and the co-chairperson is the vice-chairman of the Democratic Party here, African-American woman, whose son is also a police officer, Nina Turner. And we got together with them and a whole group of people, including law enforcement, clergy, community leaders, elected officials and they've come up with a series of recommendations too, which will be immediately implemented. One is a statewide standard on the use of deadly force. And secondly, an aggressive look at recruiting and hiring practices. And then beyond that, Chris, something that's critical, something they did in Los Angeles, we're now going to develop the standards on transparency, data collection for police, all of that, but the whole goal is to fully integrate the police into the community because, look, the end of the day, everybody has the same goals. The community wants to be safe. They don't want drug dealers on the corner. They don't want violence and they want the police to be in there to give them safety. The police, on the other hand, have to be integrated into the community so the community understands their challenges. This board came up with a unanimous set of recommendations that will now be developed. It's endorsed by police. It's endorsed by community leaders. And I'll be traveling -- in fact, I'm going to Cleveland tomorrow to present this -- in that community and I'll be traveling around the state because it is vital. America's strongest, Chris, when we're united, not when we're divided, plain and simple.

WALLACE: I'm going to ask you a question that I asked congresswoman Edwards looking at the decline of Baltimore over the last 60 years. You know, back in 1960 it was the sixth largest city. It had more than 1 million people. Now it has 600,000. It's out of the top 25 there. It hasn't been a Republican mayor in 50 years. Do you think liberal policies have failed Baltimore and other inner cities around the country?

KASICH: Well, let me tell you what we've done. We've reformed the Cleveland schools. I work with the African-American Democrat mayor. We had almost unanimous approval in our legislature to support the most dramatic school reform in the north in America. I've been involved in -- creating mentorship programs so we take the successful to sit with our children, because that is the guts of being able to get them to see hope, the future. They can understand their potential.

We are developing entrepreneurship, doing everything we can to include the minority community. And in a number of state contracts, when we built roads, we want them to participate. Chris, at the end of the day, everybody has to be lifted and everybody has to feel that they're a part of America and part of economic gains. And without that, whether it's schools, mentorship, criminal justice reform, we've done all of those things in Ohio. And as a result of that, not that we're perfect. We have a long way to go, but what we feel is happening in Ohio is that people do feel that there's an opportunity. Now, we have a case coming -- a court case coming up in Cleveland soon. We've got our eyes on that. We're preparing for anything that might happen around that, with the mayor of Cleveland. These are very tough issues. But again, we all have to understand that when we're together, when we're united, America's stronger than when we see these problems happening in our cities.

WALLACE: Do you support school choice? Do you support vouchers?

KASICH: Oh, yeah. Of course, I support vouchers. We're also able to strike a deal with the Cleveland schools that we could also have community schools. And this is really unique also in the city of Cleveland. And we actually put a person in charge. And now I'm beginning to look at other cities, Chris, because if you don't have good education, you have nothing. It's the skills that help you to rise and the mentorships in the schools that allow kids to see their future. If you talk to African-Americans that are totally engaged, they believe that the concept of mentorship, of folks being able to give hope to young kids and get them to see a different and more prosperous and hopeful way of life is one of the keys to -- to having progress throughout our society.

WALLACE: Governor, you -- we have to talk to 2016 politics. You've now set up a committee so that you can explore a potential presidential run. You've said the key is whether or not you're going to be able to get enough resources to run. I guess two questions. One, how much do you need? And two, what's your deadline?

KASICH: Well, look, I'm not going to tell you exactly what our goals are, Chris. We're not going to be able to raise the kind of money that Jeb Bush is raising, but we want to raise enough money that we can be competitive.

You know, I tried this thing 16, 17 years ago. And I didn't even have any money to put in the car to drive our SUV around. But it's a little bit different this time. I feel like the message is working of bringing people together. The results here in Ohio give me, I think, a lot of credibility for our team to be able to move forward. And we'll know over the course of the next few months, we think we're off to a pretty good start. And we're going to see how it goes. You know, and if it goes great, I'll be happy. If it doesn't go great, I'll be disappointed. But, you know, I'll get over it. But at the end of the day, I feel pretty optimistic about things. I head back to my third trip to New Hampshire, then to South Carolina, Michigan. I'll be traveling the country, Chris.

WALLACE: We are beginning to run out of time. So, I'm going to ask you to answer these next couple of questions more succinctly. There are two basic raps against you, governor, as a presidential candidate. One of them is that you're too moderate. You've expanded Medicaid, as part of Obamacare, you are a strong supporter of common core education standards, you're open to legalizing undocumented immigrants. What do you say to conservatives who say they can't stomach that array of positions?

KASICH: Well, you know, I won -- I won 86 out of 88 counties in Ohio with almost 64 percent of the vote. I got the conservative vote. I received 51 percent of union households, 60 percent of women and 26 percent of African-Americans. You want to be president? You better win Ohio. And, you know, what we've been able to do in Ohio with job growth, with tax cuts, the largest in the country, and a history of balancing budgets, Chris, I mean, I think it's hard to question my conservative credentials. But I will tell you this, as a conservative, I believe that economic growth is a means to an end -- we should help -- is not a means to an end, but should be used to help people to rise and be lifted. And that's what all Americans want. Whether they're Republicans or Democrats.

WALLACE: The other issue, quite frankly, and I'm sure you've heard this over the years, is whether you have the discipline to run for president. Here's a clip of the full Kasich.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KASICH: I'm a Republican, I'm a conservative, but my party is my vehicle, not my master. And you know what? I'm free as a bird. I'm free as a bird. Isn't it great?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: In a generally favorable article in "The Atlantic" the reporter says this about you, "he has a combustible personality that strikes some as refreshing and genuine, but others as erratic." Governor, how do you plead?

KASICH: Well, look, I was chairman of the budget committee, one of the chief architects of the last time we balanced the budget in Washington. I was a military reformer and have more have more military experience, national security experience than anybody in the field, except Lindsey Graham has some of that, but he's not been an executive. And on top of that, Chris, I inherited a state that was collapsing. And this state has grown. We're up 340,000 jobs, $3 billion in tax cuts, strong credit, helping people live in the shadows. You know what it is? I'm a normal guy in a big job. And I tell it like it is, but I tell it like it is -- mixed with an ability to say to people, I want you to have the chance. I want you to live the American dream. So, all that criticism, you know, I don't know what to say about that, other than look at the results. They've been pretty darn good. And frankly, America needs a change agent. America needs somebody to restore the strength of this great land of ours.

WALLACE: So, Carly Fiorina told me that there was a 90 percent chance that she's going to run. And it looks to me like over the next couple of days she's going to run. Lindsey Graham told me there was a 91 percent chance he was going to run. What's your percentage, governor?

KASICH: Look, I thought the Spurs would beat the Clippers and I picked the wrong horse in the Kentucky Derby. I don't do odds. I find out they never really work out very well, Cliff. Chris, but we'll let you know as soon as we can. It looks pretty good.

WALLACE: Well, you sound like a candidate. And you sound like a very interesting candidate.

KASICH: I'm not sure I want to sound like a candidate. I just want to sound like an American who's trying to make this country a heck of a lot stronger. Not a politician typical, but somebody that's going to go and do the job, not pay attention to all the special interest groups, change the status quo, shift power out of Washington and get America on the track again with strengthening our military as well, Chris. These are things I feel passionately about, whether I'm a candidate or whether I'm not. God bless our country. Thanks for putting me on today, Chris.

WALLACE: Governor, thank you. Thanks for coming in. It's always very interesting to talk with you. Thank you, sir.

KASICH: Thank you.

WALLACE: Up next, we bring back the panel to discuss Hillary Clinton's continuing ethics problems and a busy week in presidential politics. And what do you think about the growing 2016 field? Let me know on Facebook or Twitter @foxnewssunday and use the #fns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON (D), 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We must urgently begin to rebuild the bonds of trust and respect among Americans. Restoring trust in our politics, our press, our markets.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: Hillary Clinton addressing the situation in Baltimore, but also spurring some pushback about her trust issues. And we're back now with the panel. Well, more troubles for Hillary Clinton this week. It turns out the Canadian affiliate of the Clinton Foundation failed to report more than 1100 donors who gave more than $33 million in another Clinton charity failed to disclose any foreign donations including tens of millions of dollars from other countries. So, Brit, does the Clinton cash scandal have legs?

HUME: Oh, yeah. I mean and who knows what more we are going to find out? We're beginning to get some reporting into exactly how the Clinton Foundation spent the money it brought in, to what extent it was absorbed by the cost of the thing itself. And that will give more fuel to this. And I think it all adds up to the picture the Clintons haven't changed. They are who they are. They are what they are. And the question for the country will be whether we want another four, eight years of them being who they are.

WALLACE: Meanwhile, Hillary Clinton got her first announced Democratic opponent this week. Independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont who made it clear he's going to go after her from the left.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), 2016 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to know in this day and age, whether it is possible for any candidate who is not a billionaire or who is not beholden to the billionaire class, to be able to run successful campaigns.

WALLACE: Sheryl, what impact do you think Bernie Sanders can have on the Democratic race?

SHERYL GAY STOLBERG, NEW YORK TIMES: You know, look, Bernie Sanders is certainly the only candidate who is carrying around a key chain from the Eugene V. Debs campaign. He can shape the debate. He can't win. But Barack Obama has been accused of being a European style socialist. I don't think Americans are going to put a real European style socialist into the White House. And I don't think Democrats are going to nominate one to run for president, but he can shape the debate.

WALLACE: But how much do you think it can push her ...

GAY STOLBERG: I do think that he taps into a vein in the Democratic Party that is hungry for what I would call an Elizabeth Warren style populism, break up the big banks, you know, the game is rigged against us. All of that kind of Warren rhetoric in favor of the little people. Elizabeth Warren isn't running. Bernie Sanders can give voice to that philosophy. And so, he will shape the debate and try to push Hillary Clinton to talk about issues in a different context.

WALLACE: Then, there's Bridgegate, the closing of some lanes to the George Washington Bridge to punish the mayor of Fort Lee for failing to endorse Chris Christie's re-election. On Friday two of Christie's top aides were indicted and a third pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit fraud. And his lawyer talked afterwards about his client.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALAN ZEGAS, DAVID WILDSTEIN'S ATTORNEY: I had made a statement on behalf of Mr. Wildstein in January of 2013 that Mr. Christie knew of the lane closures while they were occurring and evidence exists to establish that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: George, Christie's office, as soon as these indictments and guilty pleas came out, said that he has been cleared. Has he been? Is he off the hook now?

WILL: Well, certainly, nothing came out so far from the official documents. Now, the defense lawyer is talking like a defense lawyer there. And that's his prerogative and duty. But in fact, it could have been a bad day for Mr. Christie and it wasn't. Mr. Christie came off a wonderful high as head of Republican Governors' Association. Getting all of these Republican Governors elected. And that's been downhill -- in part because he's been the chief casualty of Jeb Bush's forceful and swift entry into the race. Jeb Bush has an advantage, that he's unemployed. And the subsidies not enough, Ronald Reagan had that advantage in 1980, Richard Nixon had that advantage in 1968. I think what Mr. Christie is counting on, is at this point in the 2007-2008 cycle, the consensus was John McCain was dead. He was broke. He was a spent force. John McCain said no, no, I can do the retail politics, particularly in New Hampshire with town hall meetings. This is exactly Chris Christie's strength and we're going to see if he can use the smaller states for that. Finally, media boredom shouldn't be counted out of this. So, it will come a point when they will see, wouldn't it be fun to have a story about Chris Christie's revival?

And it may be so fulfilling.

WALLACE: We do like to build them up and then tear them down and then build them up again. Then there's a Republican field that keeps growing. And over the next two days, take a look at this: Ben Carson, Carly Fiorina and Mike Huckabee will all join the race. Juan, what do you make of this field? That's going to make it six. And, you know, you've still got Kasich out there, you've still got Jeb Bush, you've still got Scott Walker, you've still got Chris Christie -- I mean we could be up well over a dozen.

WILLIAMS: I think that's right. And Fox News, I think, has the first debate. You'll be there, I'm sure, that quest. You are going to be busy. Because I think you'll have the stage filled with more than ten, possibly 12 people. But this is because the Republican Party right now is fractured, Chris. And they're seeking to define themselves. So, you get people who are libertarian, people who are Tea Party, people who are social conservative, people who are evangelical, especially as you go into Iowa as the gateway and you get people from the establishment -- the party, the Wall Street, small government, low tax lane of the party. All of that is in play. Because look, you know, when we have these discussions what you hear is the refrain is anti-Obama. Anti-Obama. But that covers over the splits within the party and so now you have a party that's coming up against, well, educated young women, minorities. You know, that coalition is essentially very difficult for them to break through in terms of the Electoral College, as we've seen with President Obama. Right now they've got to decide, what does the Republican Party in 2016 and going forward stand for? That's why you see so many people on the stage. They're trying to become the leader that defines the new Republican Party.

WALLACE: Brit, I mean I guess that one of the questions is, because there are going to be more than a dozen candidates, can they sort this out without destroying themselves?

HUME: That is a question. And one of the interesting features of this whole thing is, George remarked that when Jeb Bush started his fund-raising drive and his non-campaign campaign, he suddenly raised all this money and took some of the oxygen out of the space where Christie wanted to be. But he has -- he's never gained any altitude since then. The question is, will he? We know he's going to be fabulously well-funded. Is he planning a campaign, in which he's ready to absorb losses in the early stage and try to fight on thereafter? Such campaigns wouldn't work that well in the past. But he's not trimming their sales (ph) on the issues to appeal to the right. I think it's a very intriguing question of exactly what kind of campaign he's trying to run because it looked like he was going to be the sort of the front-runner. And that's not happening.

(CROSSTALK)

WALLACE: Well, you know --

HUME: And that, of course, is part of what encourages all the rest of these figures with ballooning numbers we've talked about to get in the race.

WILLIAMS: And I think the money is also fueling this because there is now these billionaires who can push individual candidates.

WALLACE: Yeah, money isn't what it used to be in politics because there's too much going around. Thank you, panel. See you next week. Up next, the superintendents of West Point on tradition and change for the long gray line.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

WALLACE: A look at the statue of George Washington at the U.S. Military Academy. I had the great honor this week of spending time at West Point, hosting a panel for the graduating class of 2015. We discussed what has made the academy so special these last two centuries. Changing with the times while maintaining its commitment to duty, honor, country.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: It was a living history of West Point. Cadets dating back to the class of '65, including the parent and former superintendents of the last two decades, addressing the class of 2015. And that's where we started. The two generals of the Army, Dwight Eisenhower and Omar Bradley, who graduated from West Point a century ago.

(on camera): Is the key to West Point how much it's changed or how much it stayed the same?

LT. GEN. DANIEL CHRISTMAN (RET.) WEST POINT SUPERINTENDENT '96-'01: The changes from 1915 today, through Ike's time to our time have been enormous, but we're also trying to maintain that which must endure the central core values of a school.

LT. GEN. DAVID HUNTOON, JR. (RET) WEST POINT SUPERINTENDENT '10-'13: Graduates of this institution continue to serve a nation in peace and war in the most remarkable way. I think that's the value proposition of West Point.

WALLACE (voice over): But there have been changes. There were no female cadets until 1976. Now they make up 20 percent of the corps. There were a handful of African-Americans 50 years ago. Now one-quarter of the cadets are minorities.

LT. GEN. FRANKLIN HAGENBECK (RET.) WEST POINT SUPERINTENDENT '06-'10: This superintendent at the time said that he would leave the Army if women were allowed. He didn't. And he later came back a few years ago to say it was the dumbest decision and remarks that he ever made in his career.

WALLACE: Another big change, discipline. The honor code used to call for automatic expulsion for any violation. Now, more than 50 percent of honor code cases end with discretionary punishment.

(on camera): Is that a good thing or has the disciplinary system here gone too soft?

LT. GEN. ROBERT CASLEN, JR. WEST POINT SUPERINTENDENT: When I was a cadet, we didn't have discretion. So I was motivated to obey the honor code, and I obey the honor code because my motivation was fear a consequence. As compared to a motivation that I wanted to aspire to the ethics or aspire to a set of principles that integrity and honor, what they're all about, that got me to the end state of not disobeying the honor code, but it was probably for the wrong motivation.

WALLACE: We also look to the future. How would they like to see West Point change?

CHRISTMAN: There's a particular challenge that West Point faces. And that is, not enough of the country knows about the academy. When we were growing up in the '50s and saw on CBS every Wednesday night, a 30-minute made-for-television a two-year running documentary called West Point. So, the bottom line is, let's tell the secret that's about the academy. Explaining what's the treasure here is a major step forward.

WALLACE: Finally, I asked the superintendents or sut (ph) as they are called, if there is one moment that crystallizes what West Point has meant to them.

LT. GEN. WILLIAM LENNOX, JR (RET.), WEST POINT SUPERINTENDENT '01-'06: As I look at the graduation parades, that's probably the most significant parade for me. And you all are going to be part of that here in just a few days. It signifies your movement on.

CHRISTMAN: When I'm in front of you, in a chance like this, to try to pass on what this concept of a long, gray line means.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And this is what they gave me, the formal tar bucket hat the cadets wear during parades. It will be a treasured memento of a day at West Point I will never forget. And that's it for today. Have a great week. We'll see you next "FOX NEWS SUNDAY."

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