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The Five

Hillary Clinton seeks $2B to end big money politics

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 15, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Julie Roginsky, Eric Bolling and the scared Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Hillary Clinton is expected to run a $2 billion campaign in her second bid for the White House. But she says she's going to make it a focus of her campaign to get big money out of politics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: We need to fix our dysfunctional political system and get unaccountable money out of it once and for all, even if that takes the constitutional amendment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: She said it again today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CLINTON: We have to start breaking down the divisions that have paralyzed our politics and we have to get rid of the unaccountable money that is flooding into our political system.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Here's one of the reasons Americans might grow cynical on Clinton's first day on the campaign trail. Her Campaign Chairman John Podesta was caught on tape from mingling with liberal donors from the Democracy Alliance in San Francisco, trying to raise the same kind of unaccountable money Clinton was talking about, and so is her ally David Brock of Media Matters. The political action committee America rising got that footage and I think it's no wonder, Eric, that people would see some hypocrisy here between somebody whose gonna raise $2.5 billion and makes $300,000 a speech, funnels all sorts of unaccountable money through the Clinton Foundation to fund her lifestyle.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: 300 grand?

PERINO: Yes.

BOLLING: A speech?

PERINO: Yes.

BOLLING: And she's broke?

PERINO: And she, well --

BOLLING: Dead broke?

PERINO: Not anymore.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: OK. So if she did make 300 grand a speech, one speech would hire eight teachers in 36,500. One speech would also hire eight auto mechanics which apparently she likes to hang out with when she delivers her first announcement that she's gonna run for president. 16 Chipotle employees for full year, 5.3 over senate staffers if they're men, because they make -- may 56,000. But she can actually hire 7.3 staffers if their female because, there's a 15,000 -- PERINO: Paid them less.

BOLLING: You pay them a lot less 15 grand less in fact. Just a hypocrite alert, I don't know why she wouldn't even talk money. Because every time she opens her mouth about money, she seems to put her foot in it.

PERINO: She --

BOLLING: Her mouth.

PERINO: Greg, she just says she's going to raise $2.5 billion to spend on a race where she is running unopposed in a democratic -- on the democratic side. She must be really worried about the general election. But also she is saying that she wants to change it after she becomes president.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Yeah. How convenient for her. By the way, that tape we had? That was some damning video.

PERINO: Yup.

GUTFELD: A man standing there just talking to each other. Who -- what could they be talking about? Probably, bombing something. Anyway, I think we misinterpreted it.

BOLLING: There it is.

GUTFELD: Yes, there it is. Damning video, well done, America. The funny thing is, when she was talking about how she wanted big money out of politics, she was actually referring to an obscure rapper, with had nothing to do with actual campaign contributions. To show you how desperate the media is right now to find any kind of news, because she won't talk about the issues. Everybody is scrambling for something. Jennifer Epstein from Bloomberg, she tweeted. This is really interesting information. Did you know that Hillary's favorite bottled iced tea is Pure Leaf? Compare that to President Obama's which is Honest Tea and Bill Clinton is Wet Tea.

PERINO: Did she add that last part? Or did you help her out?

GUTFELD: I did that made that one up.

PERINO: But that, it just show how absurd.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: I love it.

GUTFELD: It is absurd, isn't it?

PERINO: It is absurd.

GUTFELD: There's a point to this joke, Dana.

PERINO: I -- I'm following.

GUTFELD: I know.

PERINO: Is it over?

GUTFELD: I have said enough, thank you.

PERINO: OK. Then I will gonna go to Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: I think he has, actually.

PERINO: Do you think that they can hear their own tone deafness?

GUILFOYLE: -- no. I don't think so. And I don't think they care because, this is what they think, everybody play along, whoever you wants to, get in, run for president. She feels she's gonna be the winner. The big winner, whether she drives in the Scooby van, whether she goes to Chipotle, whether she chooses Text Mac (ph) instead, it's just doesn't matter. She's like, the leader of the circus. But it's funny that she is talking about money because, it's not her strong suit. In fact, it's a (inaudible) on so many levels, showing undue influence, donations to the Clinton Foundation, bad numbers for the economy, all of the above, so that isn't something she should be putting forward. I think the less she's heard from, probably the better off she's going to be, right? Say less and just keep going.

PERINO: Probably.

GUILFOYLE: Cruising to point 16 (ph).

PERINO: The point about the campaign contribution on the left is that she has something that is -- it's a really important issue for people or is it just something I thinks she needs to talk about and they're still gonna write her a hundred thousand dollars check for her pact?

JULIE ROGINSKY, GUEST CO-HOST: Both. I mean, the left is upset about Citizens United, they think it's a -- largely think it's a bad decision, but she's also not gonna unilaterally discern (ph). She's not gonna say, OK, because I'm offended by Citizens United and by dark money (ph) politics, but I'm going to take my marbles and go home. So of course it's both. She's gonna continue to raise this money while it's legal.

GUILFOYLE: Thinks she likes it, though.

ROGINSKY: Well, I don't know. She likes that --

PERINO: On Citizens United, allowed for people the right to criticize her. I mean --

ROGINSKY: Right.

PERINO: But I think that they really don't like is a more recent Supreme Court --

ROGINSKY: Well, it's both. Which we lead us -- which I made it from Citizens United but --

GUILFOYLE: She just wants the money coming in.

ROGINSKY: Of course. But ever person --

GUILFOYLE: Clinton love all green, whoever is giving it?

ROGINSKY: To be fair, any presidential -- presidential candidate is not going to turn down cash. I mean, George -- sorry, excuse me, Jeb Bush, wants money to come in. All these guys are desperately trying to raise money. You need to raise money to run a campaign. It was a billion dollars last time. It's gonna be, probably two this time. It's a fact of life.

BOLLING: Or more --

ROGINSKY: Whether you like it or not, or more.

BOLLING: Or 2.5 billion.

ROGINSKY: Right.

BOLLING: So, which makes the discussion about, hey, we have to stop, we have to have financial form, campaign finance reform even more hypocritical. She's gonna be the -- by far, the largest spender in the history of politics.

PERINO: Hypocrisy is like --

BOLLING: By double.

ROGINSKY: But what about --

PERINO: It's like a nice form blanket. Let me tell -- let me go to somebody who --

BOLLING: And it's -- I'm sorry. It is not coming from $25 donations.

ROGINSKY: It's probably coming from both.

BOLLING: And well, it's true (ph).

PERINO: OK. Let's go to somebody who may try to challenge Hillary in the upcoming election. He made sure to point out the hypocrisy in the swing state of New Hampshire today, here's Chris Christie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS CHRISTIE, NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR: I read somewhere today, Secretary Clinton said she wants to -- she intends to raise $2.5 billion for her campaign, but she wants to -- then get the corrupting money out of politics.

(LAUGHTER)

CHRISTIE: You know, it's classic, right? It's classic politician's speech.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: And the New Jersey governor has not announced yet, whether he will in fact run, but if he does, he's not worried about defeating her.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUGH HEWITT, THE HUGH HEWITT SHOW RADIO HOST: Let me ask you then about Mrs. Clinton's campaign. Can you beat her, Chris Christie?

CHRISTIE: If I run, I will beat her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: OK.

GUILFOYLE: I love it.

PERINO: Can you say that?

GUTFELD: I don't know. Beating women?

PERINO: I knew you were gonna go there. Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

PERINO: Do you like that? That this poll (ph) saying, OK, I can win? And like the confidence.

GUILFOYLE: 100 percent.

PERINO: I knew you'd like that.

GUILFOYLE: You have to have a winner. Like somebody who believes in themselves. If you have somebody like, I'm not sure if I'm the one who push this cart up the hill. Get out, beat it. Let's get somebody who is like, I can get this done no matter what and just like bow flex it out. Chris Christie is a hundred percent confident in himself. That if he runs against her, he's going to be able to take her down. That's what you wanna can. You want somebody who is in Quitaque (ph). I mean, I'm not sure or lot like, Candy Crowley steps on them in the debate? No.

ROGINSKY: What presidential candidate is going to say, no, I can't -- no, as a matter of fact, I don't think I can beat her. They are all gonna say that. Look, Chris Christie's problem is that Chris Christie has a major (inaudible) scandal that is about to happen some bunch of his aides hanging over Bridgegate. Chris Christie's problem isn't sure he's going to come out (inaudible) as a second to last in the nation. Highest property taxes in the nation has problem in the republican primary, which as a Democrat, I'm very happy that is. First of all, he appointed a bunch of liberal judges, that were democratic diverse, he reappointed them, so thank you, Chris Christie. And secondly, he said he got into politics because he wanted to preserve New Jersey's assault weapons ban. That is a (inaudible), right Eric?

BOLLING: It's some -- those are the two points I wrote down.

ROGINSKY: Are you stealing my notes?

BOLLING: No. I wrote this earlier.

ROGINSKY: Yeah.

BOLLING: In the day, saying that -- look, everyone loves the attitude that Chris Christie brings but, he's got a lot of problems right here --

GUILFOYLE: I don't disagree.

BOLLING: He's got second amendment problems in New Jersey --

GUILFOYLE: I don't disagree. I don't like him for those reasons.

BOLLING: He's got credit problems In New Jersey, he -- when he came into office he said, I'm lowering property taxes. You know what? He did. Within two years, they are higher than when he started, than before he started. So, Chris Christie has a lot of explaining to do.

ROGINSKY: Yeah.

BOLLING: If you get the -- the conservative vote, which he probably won't. He makes it some sort of, you know, a quasi-conservative vote.

PERINO: But in his to the --

BOLLING: But he is a good --

GUILFOYLE: He's got swagger. He's got swagger.

BOLLING: A good candidate, that's why, right.

GUILFOYLE: Swagger.

PERINO: He -- at least -- every candidate is going to come to some -- come to the race with things that they are going to have to defend and at least I think that he found that like he's willing to step into the arena. There's something to be said for that?

GUTFELD: Yeah. We spent the last seven years or so, six or seven years ignoring external threats in favor of internal strife. And the person who is able to articulate a vision that reverse that is going to win, because we're tired of beating each other up. We're tired of being powerless abroad. You've got terror spreading through ISIS, you got Putin selling arms and you got a cyber tax at 40 percent. The number one concern among the American public is, concern -- is national security. So you don't need a grad study. You need a gargoyle (ph) and Christie --

GUILFOYLE: Wait a second.

GUTFELD: Christie looks like something that could go toe to toe with Putin in Iran -- with Putin or Iran and he has a forceful personality which -- compared to kind of the aloofness of Hillary, it could benefit him.

BOLLING: Can I add one more thing? Can I add one more positive thing on Christie, to (inaudible). He is the first one who came out with something - - he's not running for president yet, but he talked about reforming social security.

PERINO: I actually have a sound bite for that.

BOLLING: You do?

PERINO: Can I play that and go back to you?

BOLLING: Sure.

PERINO: All right. So, this is him earlier today, when he's talking about his plans to reform the country's entitlement system. He is the only one really talking about this so far.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRISTIE: Our entitlement system is out of control. Its growth is not sustainable. But let's confront the problem head-on, let's come together for a better America and not sit idly by war prospect fade and this president leads our divisions to go out. I'm not afraid to tell you the truth as I see it, whether you like it or not. I want to help lead the national conversation that rewards truth over pandering. That rewards innovation over the timidity and the status quo, and that honors the power of our history over the fear of failure. So I think that's what leadership is really all about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: You like the entitlement reform?

BOLLING: Yeah -- and he do it. I think he's spot on with some of that. He's talking about reforming social security that the raising the age from 65, the retirement age from 65 to 67. Also means testing some, some recipients, which is -- I think this the only way to solve the problem going forward. However, as Julie points out, he has so many dark clouds waiting to rain on his parade.

ROGINSKY: Terrible.

BOLLING: It's --

PERINO: Well before there, I mean, until there are actual clouds that are actually raining, maybe we should let the justice system work it out if it's gonna be the case.

BOLLING: Sure.

PERINO: Kimberly, do you like when he talks about -- price (ph) him a harsh truth to voters, even if it means that they might not wanna talk about the fact that social security will have to be revamped?

GUILFOYLE: Of course I do. I like somebody who is direct, to I think it will pander. When we talk about political pandering, I'm so sick of it, having been in politics for so many years, coming out in San Francisco and the politics from California, my God. So someone who is not afraid to stand to unions, to talk about social security reform, talk about Medicare reform, talk about -- you know, economic -- all of that, let's get somebody in like that. Do I think he's gonna be the guy? No. But at least he's stimulating the conversation. I don't think he's going to be the chosen one but, get the talk out there.

ROGINSKY: Let's be clear about something with Chris Christie. He has pandered time and again in every issue. He used to be pro-choice then he became pro-life. He used to be pro-massively pro-gun control, now he's --

PERINO: What about Hillary Clinton?

ROGINSKY: But wait a second. The reason I say that is he's not a straight shooter. He's not a straight talker and he can't --

PERINO: Like being against gay marriage and being for it.

ROGINSKY: You know what? You're absolutely right. She flip-flopped on that, but he's flip-flopped, but he's not going around saying, I'm the truth teller and the only truth teller on the planet. He's going around saying, I'm a truth teller? Give me a break --

GUILFOYLE: You know, but that's the different. That's about having different evolving ideas and perhaps, shifting your opinion about something. That is a very different from saying I have the courage to stand up to you and to you and to you --

ROGINSKY: Except it never has.

GUILFOYLE: Bolling, look me in the eye and you J.R.

ROGINSKY: But it never has.

PERINO: I mean, is this personal?

(LAUGHTER)

ROGINSKY: With Christie?

PERINO: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: You really don't like him.

ROGINSKY: I really -- I actually know, I actually know him on a personal level. I actually like him on a personal level, but I think he's a complete disaster when it comes to governing. And I say that because my parents live in New Jersey, I'm from New Jersey, I've seen at first hand. Eric, you nailed it.

BOLLING: I will take --

ROGINSKY: The economy is terrible.

BOLLING: There are two things that -- personally, there are extremely.

ROGINSKY: Yeah.

BOLLING: Important to me. Number one, taxes and number two, the second amendment. And -- if he were president, I'd be concerned about both of them.

PERINO: All right.

GUTFELD: See, I disagree. You can't do much good in the world if you think you are bad in the world, and that's what we've been dealing with for seven years. Obama was incredibly positive about himself, but he wasn't positive about the role of the United States, in America. So the 2016 winner has to be all about America and not about himself. We've had enough of the brooding professor, it's time to have a positive salesman, that's where the foreign policy comes in and economy comes second. I don't think America is going to be that concerned over the tax policies in New Jersey -- it don't (ph).

ROGINSKY: Well, it is, if it's a (inaudible) to a tax policy would be in America, right? If he raise taxes in New Jersey --

GUILFOYLE: I just to think that --

ROGINSKY: I think that's probably -- GUILFOYLE: That's one macro cause in dealing with New Jersey and the fiscal problems that they have, but if you look at it in a more like macro sense, I don't think it can be applicable --

BOLLING: K.G., who he appointed the judge --

GUILFOYLE: To the majority of the United States.

BOLLING: Look at the judges he appointed in New Jersey, it's a huge problem.

GUILFOYLE: OK --

BOLLING: It's a big problem for conservatives.

GUILFOYLE: Listen, I'm just gonna back and forth, keep this on a high level.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: But I'm not saying this is my guy. I'm not like saying, hey, you come first --

PERINO: We're gonna, we're gonna get out of here and go to the next segment, anyway. So next, the CEO cuts his own salary to gives his employees a big high raise. But will his redistribution plan actually (inaudible) company in the long term. Eric thinks so and he's gonna tell you why, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: So you seen the CEO of the Seattle based company who raised the minimum wage at his credit card processing company to $70,000 per year? Dan Price dropped his own salary from a million (inaudible) to 70 grand as well. Here's how his employees took all the news.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(APPLAUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLLING: And here's the man of the hour.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAN PRICE, GRAVITY PAYMENTS CEO: What you see is inequality in this country is getting bigger and bigger and bigger. And a lot of times people are proposing government solution like in Seattle where I live, we have the $15 an hour minimum wage. And for me, that's a sign of failure that we didn't self-regulate and self-govern. And had we done things like this, there'll be no need for announcement.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's in entity (ph).

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: So a CEO doing right by his employees, closing the income inequality gap, sounds great, right? Well not so fast. This is a publicity stunt. Gravity Payments is only making $2 million a year profit. Price just dropped the minimum payroll -- minimum payroll of $9 million onto his books. So, when Gravity makes a PR for doing the cool thing, will ultimately ruin the company. And God help the next genius CEO to follow Dan Price (inaudible). Gravity will pull all them down into the dust pile of great ideas on paper, but not in business. Sorry, kids no free lunch. The smartest thing anyone ever said about business, simple but still holds true. Dana? Sounds great. People love it. Everyone that saw this guy, all over the news today, on Barney's show that was - he did the Today show, they -- oh, what a great guy. OK, it's fine.

PERINO: But -- well, OK, that's fine, right? It's a free market. He's making the decision.

BOLLING: It's definitely the free market.

PERINO: And maybe it's a suicide mission for his company, but at least he's making it and then his company will have to either win or lose in the future. But at least the government is not involved.

BOLLING: The government is definitely not involved, so you can call free market, but I would not call it capitalism, I'd call it -- I don't know, giving it away.

GUTFELD: It is -- I mean, you're both right. The government isn't dictating this, I for that. As long as the government doesn't get involved in wage controls -- I'm OK. He can bankrupt his company, he --this is precisely the opposite thing you would do to get the help like use unemployment, by raising all of these. And then -- imagine the guy who makes -- let's say a guy makes 10 bucks an hour and he goes to 15 but the guy who makes 15 it's like going, wait a minute I have more used experience and education than a guy making 10, I make 15, I want 20. So what happens is if all ends up moving everything up. The interesting thing about this was great piece by Steven Quartz in the New York Times. He showed that consumerism is what improves lifestyle that the debate on minimum wage cannot, by supplying a status that is based on lifestyle and brands. You don't have to be rich to be happy. That's why when they are studying happiness and inequality, as inequality wide and happiness, that isn't effective.

BOLLING: K.G., and that's where why he picked 70,000 bucks, because there was a study that said at 70 grand, you actually start to experience happiness. But this isn't in business that --

GUILFOYLE: I think he did this, it's a nice like PR move, he's getting a lot of play out of it, he's hitting all of them. You know net worth, the cable, to everybody talking about it and now, a company I've never heard of in my life, now I know it, right? So people are going to get involved, get interested, look him up, I mean, I was thinking like, it was pretty dateable until he went total comey (ph) --

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: To Seattle grunge rocker.

BOLLING: Yeah. This way, you'll know Dan Price for a really long time.

GUILFOYLE: Why?

BOLLING: Multi sets the way he is. He is a good PR, he's a good salesman. He ain't gonna know gravity paying him for a long time on.

GUILFOYLE: OK.

BOLLING: It's interesting.

GUILFOYLE: OK, I'll take your word for it.

BOLLING: So is he taking down this whole 130 -- people working for him, is he taking down for the sake of himself?

ROGINSKY: I think it remains to be seen. Look, they are thrilled about this, so apparently not. I -- you know what? Why he didn't he become a comey (ph) I think it's quite the opposite. He's a libertarian. He said I don't want government involved. I'm gonna this, I'm going to determine my own path and I'm going to determine what my company is going to do.

BOLLING: Julie, he didn't --

ROGINSKY: Why Not?

BOLLING: Because he didn't -- the market dictates wages, not one guy, not the government.

ROGINSKY: Wait --

BOLLING: Either one guy (ph).

ROGINSKY: You're telling me that if I want to give my assistant -- it's my company, I want to give him a raise tomorrow, I can't do it.

BOLLING: Of course you can.

ROGINSKY: Because of the market, so what's the problem?

PERINO: You think you should give your assistant a raise.

ROGINSKY: You know what? My assistant is making more money than I think I am.

BOLLING: Do you have an assistant?

ROGINSKY: I am. That's how important I am.

BOLLING: You have an assistant?

GUTFELD: I'm not -- can I think it inexistent.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: A man Friday.

ROGINSKY: You're like -- yeah, well, we're not gonna talk what you do for me, but -- yeah, but he --

GUILFOYLE: He's a little --

GUTFELD: Disgusting.

GUILFOYLE: He's a little man sandwich, a little morsel.

BOLLING: All good? All right, let's leave it right there.

GUILFOYLE: No, no. He's a nice guy. We get it. You don't like him, it doesn't go --

BOLLING: No, I'm fine with him. In fact, what I'm going to do tomorrow on Barney also turn to sided with your point of view, Julie, some of saying --

ROGINSKY: For once Barney and I agree.

BOLLING: Tomorrow, it's gonna Barney that I argue with.

GUTFELD: But -- I urge you to read this --

GUILFOYLE: Why don't you book --

GUTFELD: This article.

ROGINSKY: I did.

GUTFELD: It's amazing. Because it made me think, when you -- whenever you see a line at the Apple store, you don't see any class barriers. It's everybody. You can't tell who is making more money than that, because basically, our capitalist, consumers society is so awesome that everybody can pretty much enjoy the same lifestyle and maybe you can go concierge on certain things and get off for this and for that. But, you know, when a student can have an iPhone or an iPad.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: You are doing all right.

ROGINSKY: Thank you Barack Obama.

GUILFOYLE: I think he's doing pretty great.

ROGINSKY: That's Obama's America for he's right.

GUILFOYLE: He's going to get a lot of dates out of it.

GUTFELD: You caught me.

ROGINSKY: I knew it.

BOLLING: That's --

GUILFOYLE: Oh my, God.

(LAUGHTER)

BOLLING: That's actually peak of the next segment, very well. Yes, the Communism has kept Cuba in an economic time warp and some on the mainstream media would like things to stay that way, now that ties have been restored with the U.S., next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: So, as relation with Cuba Thaw outcome the idiots with limited access to suffering, who recast cast pain as charming. CNN international's James Williams and Daisy Carrington, urge travelers to visit Cuba before its decaying infrastructure disappears.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah

GUTFELD: Oh yes, the delights of poverty. It's pain transformed into a coffee table book, something to enjoy as long as it's not your own country. Even MSNBC, whatever that is worries that our tourist dollars could harm this paradise of prosecution.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MELISSA HARRIS-PERRY, MSNBC HOST: I worry about American tourist and the way instead we can sometimes be a plague on the rest of the world particularly, in this nation that become high tourist economies. And I'm wondering if there is a downside to our economic ties opening up with Cuba -- for Cuba.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: No.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: And so instead.

GUILFOYLE: No.

GUTFELD: They look at awful buildings and think, ah, what a great picture for my wall. They see chipped paint peeling from rented hotels and think, character. I can't wait to tell my friends in New York how authentic this is. Maybe I'll get married here. They don't see the abject poverty of those working in these conditions, so the pain, communism cause or the tyrant responsible. Yes, the very dictators that the American left so admired, who kept this suffering alive, as they hoarded the good stuff for themselves. The idea that destitute -- destitution is cool, and our consumer is a toxic, it's not just evil, it's old. So the first comey (ph) weird it's ugly head, there was a well-off westerner patting it softly while bodies stacked up. But for those of you worried that the consequences of communism are being raised -- chin up. There's still Venezuela, they just ran out of toilet paper, which sucks when you're full of crap.

GUILFOYLE: Eww.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: It's like --

GUTFELD: That was a metaphor.

GUILFOYLE: So --

GUTFELD: Kimberly, metaphor.

GUILFOYLE: Metaphor.

GUTFELD: Analogy.

GUILFOYLE: Analogy.

GUTFELD: All right, because you just still talking and no one knows what you are saying.

GUILFOYLE: I'm sure you don't care of what I'm saying, go ahead.

GUTFELD: All right. That's not true, I care.

GUILFOYLE: No. I mean, it.

GUTFELD: I'm lying.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, in a very positive confident way.

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: A (inaudible).

GUTFELD: What's worst? A romantic ravages of communism or the crashness (ph) of tourism?

GUILFOYLE: Oh. That is a really tough of choice, and it depends on who the tourist are.

GUTFELD: Hmm.

GUILFOYLE: I think --

GUTFELD: American tourists are tacky, according to MSNBC.

GUILFOYLE: I'm not going to go there. I love America, and I love Americans.

GUTFELD: That's great.

GUILFOYLE: So I'll take all the tourists.

GUTFELD: It's a daring statement.

GUILFOYLE: The problem is, is that people need to inform themselves about the facts, about what's gone on, the history in Cuba, the suffering there. The fact that the prisons are filled with political opposers [SIC], people that have been persecuted because of their beliefs of trying to have freedom of speech.

And now all of a sudden, Cuba is the darling of the Obamas, of the de Blasios of the world, and they just want everyone, you know, feast your eyes on this, this workers' paradise, where everyone is equally as poor. That is not what this country stands for.

How about doing something positive by saying, "We're going to lift this if you, in fact, do something about the economy, the way you value your currency, start paying people the value of the work that they do. Then let's talk"?

GUTFELD: You know, Julie, isn't this really about destitute destinations, like going there and turning pain into novelty?

ROGINSKY: Yes. We all feel better about ourselves, right? We go, we spend a little money, we help the poor, destitute people.

I kind of see the point of the CNN guys by saying from a tourist perspective, you're not going to find this, at least in the Western Hemisphere, too many other places. So I kind of understand.

GUILFOYLE: I hear they're hiring.

ROGINSKY: Yes, exactly. The value of that -- thanks. But -- but let me tell you, that that's -- I mean, Melissa Paris -- Melissa Harris-Perry, I don't even know her name, but that -- what a crazy thing to say.

GUTFELD: Yes. You know what it is?

ROGINSKY: I mean, that's insane.

GUTFELD: Here's a good comparison. When East and West Germany reunited, I went to a museum in Berlin that shows an apartment from East Germany and what it's like to live in East Germany. I don't think Cuba is going to do that. They're not. They're going to -- how can we have a free and open conversation or diplomatic ties with a dictator in our own hemisphere?

BOLLING: Because I think they have to open up. I think they have to. And I'm one of the ones on the right who thinks this is a good idea, one of the few, apparently, on the right that thinks this is a good idea.

GUILFOYLE: Well, if can be, if it's handled property, yes.

BOLLING: We'll take it from the straight business -- yes, if it's handled properly. No. 1, first and foremost, Cuban government can't be involved in every business the way they are right now. You want to do business, any agriculture or retail, anything, you have to go through -- the Cuban government is their partner. You can't do that anymore. You have to break that. And I think that's being worked on.

And No. 2, you have to float the currency. Let the currency be -- let it stand on its own and float, and then you can start to do business with the country.

Eleven million new customers. For 40 years, they haven't bought -- they haven't bought anything: no iPhones, no corn flakes, so Sara Lee cupcakes, whatever. There's a huge demand. There's tens of billions of dollars of opportunity for American businesses, but the human rights issues, you have to get over.

GUTFELD: Cop killers over there.

GUILFOYLE: Right. They have them. They're harboring fugitives.

BOLLING: Is it a big if, but if you can fix those things and is it...

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: I mean, there are other countries that...

GUILFOYLE: You know, Bolling, when I look at you, all I'm seeing is that you are, like, on the first ticket over there to whatever new Ritz is going to be built, with the hot tub, the magic views, the shirt off.

BOLLING: And who's going to be on the second ticket?

GUILFOYLE: "Oh, no. Don't call me blanco gordito."

GUTFELD: We'll be getting that -- we'll be getting the shirtless Eric Bolling shot.

GUILFOYLE: In Cuba.

ROGINSKY: Remember that scene out of "Godfather 2"?

BOLLING: Gordito blanco.

ROGINSKY: Gordito blanco.

GUILFOYLE: That's what I said to you. I said it. You know it.

GUTFELD: Exactly. Beat-up convertible Chevy driving down the street.

BOLLING: You know you want to be in that.

GUTFELD: Yes. I'll be in the back seat.

Dana, people see this sort of thing as authentic. They're afraid that America is going to come in and take away the authentic pain and...

PERINO: So all those things that he just described, all the products, great American products and brands that Cubans have not been able to buy but could in the future, that's what Melissa Harris-Perry is talking about.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: They don't want to ruin Cuba with American products.

GUTFELD: With good things.

PERINO: They don't want Americans with white tennis shoes...

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: ... to deface the Cuba that is their imagination. Remember when we talked about this a year ago, they were worried that there would be an McDonald's.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: Or Hillary Clinton's favorite, the Chipotle.

The thing I find interesting about this argument from the left about the worry about Americans going there, as if Americans is bad...

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: You see there's a pattern there. It's that the left also uses and President Obama uses the fact that America can be a force for good in Cuba in order to try to get support behind his approach to try and open up Cuba.

GUTFELD: Yes. Right.

PERINO: And so MSNBC should maybe get with the program.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

PERINO: ... not what the president wants.

GUTFELD: What are they getting right -- what are people going to Cuba getting right now in Cuba? Nothing legal, because it's all in -- you hear stories.

GUILFOYLE: Cigar smuggling.

ROGINSKY: And let me tell you this: the first McDonald's in Moscow opened up in 1990. I happened to be there for that. There were lines like around -- like a mile down.

PERINO: And no matter what, if I could say one last thing about this, if America is going to go down this path, and if Americans are going to go there, just please keep in mind that the workers that you're seeing there is not getting paid...

GUILFOYLE: Right.

PERINO: ... the kind of money that is going directly to the government. How we deal with the government treating its people there matters. It's not just a great tourist destination which maybe it will be in a few years.

GUILFOYLE: We agree. Simpatico.

PERINO: I don't like that. Think about the women in particular.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Who are under the thumb of the government, looking for pesos when the government is getting paid with your tourist dollars, and that includes you, Europe.

GUTFELD: Good point, Dana.

GUILFOYLE: Vacation in America. Keep it all here for the cash.

GUTFELD: There you go. All right. Well done, K.G.

GUILFOYLE: You're welcome.

GUTFELD: Up next, Megyn Kelly tried to get an answer from the head of the DNC on where Democrats stand on late-term abortions. See how that went, coming up on "The Five."

GUILFOYLE: It looks like it went well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: DNC chair Debbie Wasserman Schultz has been embroiled in a big spat with GOP presidential candidate Rand Paul over where Democrats stand on late-term abortions.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Why don't we ask the DNC, is it OK to kill a seven-pound baby in the uterus? You go back and you ask them.

WOLF BLITZER, CNN ANCHOR: Is he right when he says that it's OK, from your perspective, to kill a 7-pound baby in uterus? Is that your position?

DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ, CHAIRMAN, DNC: We have very different definitions of personal liberty. I made that clear in my response. The Democratic Party's position is that we are pro-choice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Interesting sidestep. Last night on "The Kelly File," Megyn tried to get Wasserman Schultz to clarify.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: You would admit that you can't have women aborting third-trimester babies just on a whim? Right? I mean, so you agree there are some limits?

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: Certainly not on a whim. But when a doctor...

KELLY: But that's what he's trying to get at, you know? Where do the Democrats stand on, you know, should...

WASSERMAN SCHULTZ: We've been very clear. There's no ambivalence here.

I can't tell you a specific date and time past which we -- on all -- in all cases are certain that that choice shouldn't be made, because that decision is very unique and individual to the woman and should be in consultation with her conscience and her god and her doctor. That is a decision left to her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Unbelievable. If she can't say it, then why doesn't she educate herself about the issues and read up on it and understand it and care about life in general and, you know, babies have rights, too -- Julie.

ROGINSKY: Well, thanks for coming to me on that. So I think, look, what I think she's trying to say is, if it's a baby who is perfectly healthy in the ninth month or the seventh month, no doctor is going to abort it, and no doctor should abort it.

PERINO: Why doesn't she say that?

ROGINSKY: I think that's what she did say.

PERINO: She didn't say that.

ROGINSKY: She was talking about doctors. And when it comes down to doctors, if a baby is severely disabled, she believes that that baby should have the right to be aborted. I think that's what she's trying to get at.

PERINO: Wow.

ROGINSKY: I'm not speaking for myself. I'm speaking for what she thinks.

GUTFELD: The baby should have the right?

PERINO: Yes, a baby.

GUILFOYLE: I don't get that.

ROGINSKY: I'm sorry. The doctor should have the right. The parents should have the right.

GUILFOYLE: The doctor should have the right?

ROGINSKY: Correct. Not the baby.

GUILFOYLE: You mean the doctor should have the authority to do it, and the mother should make the decision.

ROGINSKY: Right.

GUILFOYLE: Because that doesn't cover the baby's right. The baby does not have a voice. It's relying on sane and rational people with a compassionate heart to make some noise on its path.

ROGINSKY: No. To make compassionate choices, and maybe the compassionate choice, in her view, was if the baby was severely disabled and would be born in a lot of pain, the compassion of choice would be to have an abortion. I believe that's what she's getting at.

Don't send me -- by the way, don't send me crazy tweets about this. I'm thinking for what I think she says.

BOLLING: You'll get them.

ROGINSKY: That's not what I'm saying.

GUTFELD: The only late-term abortion liberals are against is the death penalty.

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: The left cannot go deep on this, and here's why. Whether it's minimum wage or policing or abortion, their argument begins and ends with the slogan. Whatever is on the sign is as far as they get. Because if you go to the next step in this issue, you are faced with a moral path in which you have to decide what is life and what isn't life.

And that's where she had no answer. It wasn't because she poorly articulated. It's because she knew that the answer pointed to her own black hole, that she could not -- she could not say what is life. But she knew what it -- she knew she was wrong, and it leads to a lot of unsavory conclusions that the Democrats always avoid.

The true war on women was the one-child policy in China. The unsavory fact is that once you know more -- once people know more about a child, they're going to have the possibility to selectively choose and selectively abort that child. It could be over gender. It could be over orientation.

PERINO: Eye color.

GUTFELD: It could be over physical features; it could be over color. That's where -- those are the moral paths that go beyond the sign that has the slogan.

GUILFOYLE: That's true. I mean, Bolling it sounds like, well, they're for the death penalty for babies.

BOLLING: Well, and the bigger question is, why would she agree to go on Megyn and get completely destroyed like that? She knew it was coming, because it was -- that was a back and forth between Rand Paul and Debbie Wasserman Schultz that led up to that. Megyn did the right thing and pinned her down, saying, "Well, where are you on this?"

And she spent, I don't know, a minute or so saying, basically, it's -- we're pro-choice, and the mother has the right to choose what she wants to do.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Personal liberty.

BOLLING: Instead, she could have either, A, said that or, B, decided not to go on and try and run around. And Greg's right: It's something they can't -- they cannot go deep on. They can't do a deep dialogue on. So they have to stay either far out, 64,000 feet, or just talk like I'm doing right now.

GUILFOYLE: Dana Perino, lovely in persimmon.

PERINO: Thank you. Protection of the innocent is something that we have dealt with as a country, your inalienable right to live. And if you are a baby, then you don't have -- you don't have the voice, and so you need someone to protect you.

Life is precious. It is a gift. And the question in front of America for a long time, and increasingly so, as science improves, is do we have a responsibility to protect the innocent? And because science has improved, people see more images. They start to know more people that think, "Well, my niece was born at six months into the pregnancy, and she's now, you know, a 24-year-old, very successful young woman who's contributing greatly on cybersecurity in this country."

I mean, there are personal stories now that are feeding into this, and that's changing.

But let me tell you something else that happened big-time last night. If you think back to the George Stephanopoulos interview where he asked Romney about contraception, he thought that was a fair question for Romney. Some people disagreed. But nobody has asked the Democrats about this position and really pressed them on this. It's always Republicans who seem to be unable to get out of any sort of debate without having to talk about some sort of right-to-life issue or pro-choice issue.

For the first time, you really saw Debbie Wasserman Schultz grilled by Megyn Kelly. And I think that is a great service for the upcoming debate, because it's one about the protection of the innocent, one that is -- it's important for us. It's bigger than Social Security reform or tax reform or even national security. Protection of the innocent should be a platform that we talk about in 2016.

GUILFOYLE: I agree. I hope they're listening.

Next, something that can make it even harder for America's unemployed to get a job. Personality tests. And Julie explains when "The Five" returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ROGINSKY: Could your personality keep you from getting a job before you go into an interview? The Wall Street Journal reports more and more companies are requiring applicants to take online personality tests to help screen any new hires.

So Kimberly, I'm going to go to you. This sounds kind of...

GUILFOYLE: Personality plus.

ROGINSKY: You've got such a great personality.

You know, this sounds to me kind of like an online dating situation where they're trying to, like, mesh people.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, but it works there, too. I mean, it works there...

PERINO: Wouldn't you prefer to have an in-person interview, though, Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: No problem.

PERINO: OK.

GUILFOYLE: Whatever. Online, in person.

PERINO: It doesn't matter?

GUILFOYLE: Sure. Would I like to be in person in front of somebody and like full on get it on -- I mean, three-dimensional.

ROGINSKY: We're talking about jobs here, not dating.

GUILFOYLE: You know what I'm saying. Three-dimensional, not just, OK, we're on a screen, or we're facetiming or we're doing some kind of online - - yes. Put your best foot forward, because then you have the opportunity to dress well, speak well, be in front of them. They can get a sense of your personality, who you are, and lot about first impressions for how you present yourself during the interview.

ROGINSKY: I agree. But Eric, you know, this company that they're talking about in Buffalo is actually turning people away, even though they have a ton of vacancies, because they're not getting the right amount -- the right kind of people, which I think is interesting.

BOLLING: This is really good business, too. Because one of the biggest costs of business isn't necessarily tangible. It's people leaving. So you have a great person who gets stolen away from your company. To retrain for that position is phenomenally expensive. CEOs, one of their biggest problems is replacement costs. Training and whatnot, people, not replacement of capital equipment, of actual people. So knowing that there's not going to be a personality conflict before they're hired helps down the road after they're hired.

ROGINSKY: Yes, Greg, I mean, look, a lot of places -- look, everybody here sort of meshes in their personality, and that's why you guys all work together. To some extent that works. On the other hand, as Kimberly said, you don't really know what somebody's personality is unless you get to meet them and hang out with them and get to really know them and measure them.

GUTFELD: This is discrimination against jerks; it's jerkist. What if you have a lousy personality but you're great a work?

By the way, when I interview people, I do a series of grueling tests, generally measuring their fitness, because I like people to be in shape. I take them to what's called an activity pit, which is something I built in my back yard. I supply the singlets (ph). And whoever emerges victorious from the grappling, I hire. The others, well, we have to eat.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

BOLLING: Wait, wait. You could save a lot of time and money. Just Chuck E. Cheese. Just bring them right to the ball pit at Chuck E. Cheese works.

GUTFELD: I can't go to the ball pit after what happened.

ROGINSKY: Are you banned?

GUILFOYLE: Aren't you banned from Chuck E. Cheese?

GUTFELD: There's a dress code. I didn't know.

ROGINSKY: I don't know, Dana. I think this was a good idea.

PERINO: Terrible.

ROGINSKY: Because I think people...

PERINO: I think that whether we like it or not, it is the trend and it is the future. And I grabbed this because I'd seen it. It's a book called "Work Rules" by Laszlo Bock. It's kind of heavy, but he runs human resources for Google. And I think one of the things that they have done is revolutionized the way that people are hiring -- that kind of Silicon Valley look at hiring is now morphing into other places like in Buffalo, where they are looking at personality to make sure that they can -- you could teach somebody to do something, but are you going to want to work with that person? That's their No. 1 question. Do you want to work with someone?

GUTFELD: You didn't read this.

PERINO: No, I haven't read it yet. Did you see this little sticky note, though? I'm going to read it.

GUTFELD: Oh, does that mean...

PERINO: That's chapter four.

GUTFELD: Tom's book.

ROGINSKY: We've got to go, my friend. You've got to talk about Chuck E. Cheese. And "One More Thing" is up next.

GUILFOYLE: That's more than you.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: So this is a really important message for women's health, that Rita Wilson, who is the wife of Tom Hanks, recently found out she was diagnosed with breast cancer. And she successfully underwent a bilateral reconstruction last week with the support of her husband.

That might not have happened if percent she hadn't received a second opinion, and she has a really compelling message to women to make sure to encourage them, if you're having the instinct, kind of that feeling, I want to make certain, and you have kind of a questionable diagnosis. And with respect to Rita, she actually got another pathologist to read the labs. And that's when she found that, in fact, she was -- you know, had cancer. And then a third pathologist confirmed that, as well. So -- and it was at the suggestion of a friend. So there you go. Anyway, very proud of her and thank her for sharing this personal story.

PERINO: Good point. All right -- Eric.

BOLLING: So, 2:49 two years ago, 2:49 p.m. two years ago, the Tsarnaev brothers killed three and wounded 260 at the Boston Marathon. A moment of silence was held in Boston. Here's a little of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(BELLS RINGING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: And then at Fenway Park, the Red Sox were playing the Nationals. They broke into that game, and this happened.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, we are one Boston. Ladies and gentlemen, we are Boston strong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: All right.

BOLLING: And we are Boston strong.

PERINO: Nice one. All right. Greg.

GUTFELD: All right. It is time for...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Greg's Crime Corner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: All right, America. You don't do the crime if you can't do the time. This is Gainesville, Florida. There were two young pups terrorizing a young innocent black cat. But were they prepared for what they were about to experience?

Watch closely as they approach this innocent feline, hoping to get something they were never to enjoy. And then, finally, they get cocky. This one comes over.

GUILFOYLE: Whoa!

GUTFELD: Looks like you're all wet, doggie.

PERINO: Very good Crime Corner.

GUTFELD: Thank you.

GUILFOYLE: My goodness.

PERINO: All right. It's not just in your head. The airlines are heading downward on every measure, collectively declined in on-time performance, involuntary denied boardings, mishandled baggage and customer complaints. America has taken notice. And we're demanding airlines please get it together. I've got a book tour coming up.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

PERINO: For everybody.

GUILFOYLE: Get a private plane.

BOLLING: Ticket prices aren't coming up.

PERINO: Oh, Eric, you would go to that. Money, money.

All right. Julie.

GUILFOYLE: Julie.

ROGINSKY: All right. So if you know me, you know I love, love, love classic rock. The Who is kicking off its 50th anniversary -- the Who is kicking off its 50th anniversary tour down in Florida tonight. I cannot wait to see them. I'm seeing them in Madison Square Garden in October. If you're going to go see them, let me know how the show is. I'm super psyched. And I know people who love...

GUTFELD: I love "Stairway to Heaven."

GUILFOYLE: That sounds like...

ROGINSKY: "Stairway to Heaven" is an excellent Who song, otherwise covered...

GUTFELD: "Free Bird" is amazing.

ROGINSKY: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Sounds like you want someone to take you. Chris Christie.

ROGINSKY: I am being taken -- really? I already have a date. But I might anyway.

PERINO: You can talk about Chris Christie while you're there.

All right. Set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" next.

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