Did Iran get a better deal on their nuclear program?

Iranians celebrate framework agreement while White House faces criticism


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 3, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello everyone I'm Eric Bolling along with Jedediah Bila, Juan Williams, Ainsley Earhardt and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5:00 in New York City. This is "The Five."

The Iran nuclear deal a good one or bad one for the United States, the Middle East in the balance of global power? Here is President Obama just moments after the proposed deal broke.


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Today, the United States together with our allies and partners has reached a historic understanding with Iran which if fully implemented will prevent it from obtaining a nuclear weapon.


BOLLING: Within hours, Iran claimed victory. Iranian negotiator, Javad Zarif saying, "Iran got a great deal and that if America thinks they did well, well they or we are liars." White House Spokesman Josh Earnest addressed that comment this morning on Fox.


BILL HEMMER, "AMERICA'S NEWSROOM" CO-ANCHOR: Some are basically saying that he's calling the president a liar. And that takes me back to the question about how do you negotiate with this regime and trust them?

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Well, he's not contradicting any of the facts, any of the understandings that are included in the fact sheet. And he's obviously out there trying to make the case to his population, to his country's leadership that he got a good deal. We're doing the same thing.


BOLLING: So, who came out ahead and who fell behind? President Obama and John Kerry are getting strong pushback from Republicans in Congress and Americans concerned with whether Iran could be trusted, but if you need proof who thinks they got the best deal, check out this video from Tehran, Iranians celebrating in the streets and look here at these pictures of Iranians kissing Kerry, selfies with Obama.

So, who got the better deal, Greg? We report you decide. Who truly think got the better deal?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I think -- I clearly think David, I think Iran just pulled the Persian rug out from under Obama.


Well, thank you very much. I should just leave now. The problem is President Obama wanted a deal so bad. He would have put the White House up for collateral. He would have taken a reverse mortgage on the Washington monument. And Iran could see this, right now, what you're seeing is a U.N. version of people's court. You have one person saying this thing, one person saying another, they needed Judge Wapner to come in there and split this. Who do you believe? Who do you believe? You believe the Mad Mullahs.


GUTFELD: . or do you believe President Obama. It's like I don't know choosing between two rashes.


BOLLING: So, you see, so during the negotiation the supreme leader said death to America.


BOLLING: . and just after the negotiation.


BOLLING: . you know, Zarif, the guy who negotiated the deal said America is lying.

EARHARDT: Yeah, that's what bothers me most is that they say one thing but then they're doing another in their country. They said death to America two weeks ago. The whole crowd was yelling that then supreme leader agreed with them said, "Yes, death to America then today they're eight and half hours ahead of us. So today, they have every Friday in Iran and every major city and every capital, they have a senior cleric who reads a sermon and even today in every single city across that country those clerics were saying death to America. They walked away getting.

BOLLING: And they're (ph) still rolling.

EARHARDT: . getting everything they wanted.

BOLLING: . some video Zarif. The guy who negotiated deal rock star (ph).

EARHARDT: Yeah, he is a rock star.

BOLLING: You imagine John Kerry in an open limo coming back and you -- will he get the same reception?


BOLLING: One, would John Kerry get that reception back here?

JUAN WILLIAMS, CO-HOST: No, but, of course, we're not under sanctions, though we're not suffering through an economy that's been absolutely devastated by the impact of these American-European sanctions. These folks are glad because what they see is good days ahead. They're hoping that really with the deal the quality of their lives, the value of their money is going out.

BOLLING: And Jed, a good negotiation is usually when both sides think they got screwed a little bit but also came out.

BILA: Yeah.

BOLLING: . ahead a little bit.

BILA: I just saw.

BOLLING: I don't look like take all they got --

BILA: Not at all. Not in a leap (ph). And I love Josh Earnest saying, "Well, you know, they're trying to convince people that the Iranian, these are the leaders who're trying to convince him that they got a good deal." Well are you doing the same thing Josh Earnest? Is this administration lying to the American people by trying to convince us? You basically just told us that's the strategy. They're doing it and you're doing it.

I have questions. Are the sanctions being lifted gradually or immediately? Will any of Iran's facilities be shutdown or suspended? Can Iran continue to do all of this nuclear research? I mean, these are contradictions that duress (ph) came out and said these stipulations that the United States set, all these things aren't happening. So, somebody is lying. I want to know who's lying.

BOLLING:: Can I give you one more contradiction and I'll throw this to one, in 2012 one of the debates President Obama said Iran will give up its nuclear program.


BILA: Right.


BOLLING: Will give it up.


BOLLING: So, two-and-a-half years, yeah.

BILA: That's not happening.

BOLLING: So, it was (inaudible) resolution (ph). So, 2-1/2 years later, he decides to completely back pedal on his campaign promise.

WILLIAMS: I don't think so at all. I think that what we got here is a deal in which Iran will no longer be pursuing its nuclear weaponry for at least 10 years; I think maybe 15, right?

GUTFELD: Maybe 15.

WILLIAMS: Yeah. So, that's -- the difference here and I think this is where Republicans and the critics you talk about critics in having to sell it at home.

BILA: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: The question is whether the critics at home are willing to listen, and I'm not sure they are.


BILA: Absolutely, no.


WILLIAMS: I don't think -- I don't think Tom Cotton is willing to listen to Barack Obama.

GUTFELD: Juan, I think everybody is willing to listen. And I -- I will agree with your point that the citizens are probably relieved because they've been living through sanctions and sanctions are being lifted and we're -- we're not sure why. But this is the reason -- it's about trust. It's not about just trusting Iran. It's about trusting our president. This is a guy whose foreign policy, his beliefs are a combination of liberal fantasy, wishful thinking and old scripts from mash (ph).


Sending Kerry and Obama to negotiate is like sending Chris Hayes to fight Chuck Liddell. You know, you're going to get cream (ph). Also, why does he have to keep doing anything -- everything in the Rose Garden? It's bad luck. So far every deal in the Rose Garden has been a mess.

EARHARDT (ph): Right.


BOLLING: We have a marine and a pastor jailed over there. That was -- that never even -- that never came up within (ph) the discussion.


EARHARDT: Never came up, Eric. These were individuals. This was a marine who fought for our country. You would think the commander in chief would ask for his release. You would think that this pastor who was over there in the underground world preaching, trying to recruit Christians to become better people, to follow Christ, he in my opinion is someone who needs to be released. His family is here. Her -- his kids are here. They are begging and pleading and our president - this would have been such a perfect opportunity for the president to say, "All right, we're going to give you a little but you have to give us this." Then maybe he would have gotten that response. People taking pictures of this.


WILLIAMS: You know what, you would have got.

EARHARDT: . that would delay to go (ph).

WILLIAMS: . nothing. I mean, what was we're talking about.


EARHARDT: Yeah, exactly though boom (ph).


WILLIAMS: . is we're talking about.


EARHARDT: He can't (ph) take a label.

WILLIAMS: . a nuclear deal. We're trying to stop nuclear war.

BILA: How, how does this stop it?

WILLIAMS: A good deal, not only.


BILA: The whole infrastructure.


WILLIAMS: . now tell me.


BILA: . the whole nuclear infrastructure is intact.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

BILA: None of these facilities are closed.

WILLIAMS: What you're doing is.


BILA: You put a 10-year pause on it.


WILLIAMS: By everybody.


BILA: . and that means the problem is solved?


WILLIAMS: . well for 10 years.


BILA: This is a horrible deal.


WILLIAMS: Oh, let me just say, if you leave the status quo they'd to die (ph) in place, go to my desk so they have nukes in a matter of months. Is that to advantage.


BILA: There was an.

WILLIAMS: . is that to Israel's advantage.

BILA: . there was an alternative.

WILLIAMS: . we came about.


BILA: The alternative was to make.

WILLIAMS: What's the alternative?

BILA: . stronger sanctions.

WILLIAMS: No, no, no.

BILA: . and to have tough policies.


WILLIAMS: And so, you may..

BILA: . not to say, "Hey, Iran.

WILLIAMS: . and that.

BILA: . you come to the table with everything."


WILLIAMS: Slowdown, slowdown. So, would that have stopped them -- would that have stopped them from building a bomb?

BILA: You think this is going to stop them?

WILLIAMS: I'm hoping that with and this is what Josh Earnest said.

BILA: Do you think they think that Jerry Ford (ph).


WILLIAMS: . this is what the president -- the president, by the way, in the Rose Garden and I think it was a mistake, by the way, going to Rose Garden because I think it just suggests it's a done deal, and it's not a done deal. There are a lot of things to be answered. To you, I like a deal.

BILA: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: Well, a lot of things still to be answered but to you, Madam I got to say.


. I like a deal that says, the Iranians don't get to develop their nuke for a set period of time. It makes us a safer.

BOLLING: Hang in there for a second. Greg, well a lot of championing some of the pictures, some of the posters were pictures of President Obama and Iranians saying, "He is with us."

GUTFELD: Well, this is what's interesting is that he has -- I think he's more -- he has a much more in common with our adversaries because they both share the same desires which is a marginalized America. America that for the past few decades is seen as -- as overstepping its boundaries in the Middle East and so here they agree like, "Oh, this is a guy who gets it that America is actually the bad guy and that people that disagree with Obama, Republicans are actually seen as -- as worse people." And this is why I think President Obama missed ISIS completely. He was too busy looking for Republicans under his bed and completely missed a whole new evil.


BOLLING: Let's move on this one very, quickly. I'm sorry, Ainsley.

EARHARDT: No problem.

BOLLING: Arguably, the country with the most to lose if Iran cheats on the deal is Israel. Here is Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu with his take on the deal is not holding back.


BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, PRIME MINISTER OF ISRAEL: This deal would pose a grave danger to the region and to the world and would threaten the very survival of the State of Israel. The deal would legitimize Iran's illegal nuclear program. It would leave Iran with a vast nuclear infrastructure. Such a deal does not block Iran's path to the bomb. Such a deal paves Iran's path to the bomb.


BOLLING: And this afternoon State Department was asked about PB's (ph) concerns and admitted Israel their existence of Israel was not a factor in the negotiations.


MARIE HARF, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON: This is an agreement that is only about the nuclear issue. We have purposefully kept that separate from every other issue. That issue is complicated enough to deal with on its own. No, this is an agreement doesn't deal with any other issues nor should it.


WILLIAMS: All of the critics are jumping in including folks at this table.

BILA: Yes, I am jumping in.

WILLIAMS: Oh, let's bring in prisoners (ph). Let's bring in the -- you know what? Israel really is better off with this deal but Benjamin Netanyahu, what kind of negotiator is he? Yes, how well has he done with his country's negotiations with the Palestinians.

BILA: Juan?

WILLIAMS: He is laughing (ph) into no.




WILLIAMS: . into no -- he's laughing into the status quo.

BOLLING: .Israel.

WILLIAMS: . which is terrible.

BOLLING: . Israel variably had the real only answer to Iran in the history of the conflict and -- and their nuclear program.

WILLIAMS: Bomb them, right?

BOLLING: Bomb them -- bomb them up.


WILLIAMS: Now there you go.


BILA: Do the deal.

WILLIAMS: Wait, you -- you admitted it. All you want is war.


BOLLING: No, no, no.

BILA: Oh, Juan, the thing is.

WILLIAMS: I'm glad you said it there.

BOLLING: I want them not to have a bomb. Go ahead.

BILA: This deal should make Zarif uncomfortable. It should not make Netanyahu uncomfortable. Israel is our ally. Everything that we do -- the Israel is threaten in that region, so, of course, we have to think about them, of course, we have to think about how it will affect them.


WILLIAMS: We are thinking about them.

BILA: Really? This deal thinks about them.

WILLIAMS: Who -- who do you think.


BILA: . when you have Netanyahu.

WILLIAMS: . who do you think.

BILA: . coming out and saying that this is absolutely.

WILLIAMS: Netanyahu.

BILA: . a threat to us?

WILLIAMS: . Netanyahu doesn't want.

BILA: We haven't considered that?

WILLIAMS: . any deal. Have you gotten that message? When he speaks both in Congress.

BILA: He doesn't want a bad deal.

WILLIAMS: . he doesn't want any deal.

BILA: . he doesn't want a deal that enables his.

WILLIAMS: Oh, excuse me.

BILA: . problems to continue and potentially get worse.

WILLIAMS: You must know something.

BILA: And I am on his side on that issue.

WILLIAMS: . you must know something I don't know. What is his alternative? He put another deal on the table? No?

BOLLING (ph): I don't know.


BILA: I know Republicans have had many.

BOLLING: He's probably right. Netanyahu doesn't want a deal because he.


WILLIAMS: He doesn't want a deal.

BOLLING: . knows, he can't trust them?

BILA: But how can you trust them?

EARHARDT: Yes, you say that they are -- they're not connected. Israel is saying their existence is on the line based on this deal, based on if Iran can create nukes. So, how can she say they're separate?


EARHARDT: They don't want -- they aren't though. They go hand in hand.

WILLIAMS: These are.

EARHARDT: Israel's existence is on the line is what Netanyahu is saying.

WILLIAMS: Yeah, correct. And what is helped by making sure that the people who have pledged to do away with Israel do not have a nuclear weapon? Israel.

EARHARDT: It doesn't prevent them from having a.


BILA: And Juan.


EARHARDT: . that is to America.


BILA: . that would be great.


EARHARDT: Think about what they want to do to Israel.


WILLIAMS: That's about -- it's empty rhetoric


BOLLING: You know, when one of your allies is attacked or threatened isn't it time for action?

GUTFELD: I don't -- I guess, but this is -- everything is in some kind of weird funhouse mirror where the people that were supposedly friends with are people we don't talk to and people that are our adversaries we hang out with and there's all these false choices that are being raised. It's either a deal or it's war when actually it's a deal or a better deal. It's not like, oh, if we don't do this there's going to be this massive nuclear war. A real negotiator would actually negotiate instead of bend over.




WILLIAMS: And not -- and not to take war off the table though.


BOLLING: OK. That's enough.


WILLIAMS (ph): Nobody is taking anything off the table.


BOLLING (ph): No, he did. Absolutely, Juan, he did.


WILLIAMS: We don't.

BILA: He did this to everything.

BOLLING: We don't want -- we don't want war. He said, we're going to get a deal. He didn't want.


WILLIAMS: So what.


BOLLING: It's not.


WILLIAMS: Let me say something.

BOLLING: All right.

WILLIAMS: All right. So, here I said to you before didn't I?

BILA: Yes.

WILLIAMS: My real worry is that Republicans won't listen.


WILLIAMS: So, I today what do I hear? I hear from Jeb Bush. I hear from Rubio. I hear form Perry. This is a terrible deal.

BILA: Yeah.

WILLIAMS: These guys, they're not even open to hearing.

BILA: Because we've heard the details.

WILLIAMS: All right.

BILA: It's incumbent upon them to see that this is not going to be success and to speak out against it.


BILA: That is what we elect them for.


WILLIAMS: Before -- before the fact -- in other words, this is.


BILA: It's only going to get worse - the best case scenario is if Iran agrees to this. Worst case scenarios that they come back and they make more demands and guess what, this president is just a type of president to give in.

BOLLING: Now, we do care how -- how Israel -- what they think of us, how they work with us, we do care that they are eyes and ears in the Middle East. They have all.


BOLLING: . they are adjacent to some countries who hate us, right?

WILLIAMS: Yes, yes, yes.

BOLLING: So, how do you think they feel when they see the Iranian people up kissing pictures of President Obama and John Kerry? What do you.


WILLIAMS: Then sharing President Obama.

BOLLING: Please talk about it.


WILLIAMS: They want a deal that relieves them from these sanctions.

GUTFELD: I mean, do this, there is, I think you can make this argument when the wall came down, that -- that they're, you know, Germans look to Reagan.


GUTFELD: . as the person that did this. I don't see it this way, but that's how you're seeing it.

BOLLING: Yeah, yeah.

WILLIAMS: On that -- I'm just saying they say, "Oh, great." They said great to Zarif.


WILLIAMS: . their negotiator, great to the United States. Finally, we are back in the world community.


BOLLING: We're going to leave it right there.

GUTFELD (ph): I hope you're right.

BOLLING: What did you say?

GUTFELD: I said, I hope you are right.

BOLLING: Oh, Greg.

WILLIAMS: And I said me, too.


BOLLING: Coming up, false (ph) call on Jihadist who weighs that massacre on Christians in Kenya to change their brutal ways but can a radical Islamist be reformed the one on Christian (ph). That's next in the pot.


EARHARDT: On this holy week, Muslim terrorists stepped up their attacks on Christians killing nearly 150 people at a college in Kenya. They were specifically targeting Christians. And today Pope Francis condemned the massacre as an act of senseless brutality and called for those responsible to change their violent ways. Ayaan Hirsi Ali is one of the Islam's most outspoken critics. She thinks that there is hope for reformation within that religion.


AYAAN HIRSI ALI, SOMALI-BORN AMERICAN ACTIVIST, WRITER, AND POLITICIAN: It's not a religion of peace now because if as a religion you are responsible for 70 percent of all of bloodshed in the world today then you possibly cannot be a religion of peace but it could become a religion of peace if we make some changes.


EARHARDT: But Christian Pastor Robert Jeffress does not think so. Listen.


ROBERT JEFFRESS, CHRISTIAN PASTOR: What all of these things have in common, Megyn, is they are based on the religious beliefs of radical Islam, and that's why you are never going to reform radical Islam. The only way to defeat it is to eradicate it. I recently called on members of my church. I said I want you to call the White House. I want you to call your senator's office and tell them, demand that we do something to defeat radical Islam.


EARHARDT: All right, Eric, do you think that there is hope? Can we reform radical Islamists or do you have to do what Dr. Jeffress says and eradicate them?

BOLLING: What's -- what's kind of tiring to hear is people continuing to say Islam is a religion of peace and then you hear Ayaan Hirsi Ali talked about the 70 percent of the bloodshed around the world is somehow Muslim terror -- Muslim related.


BOLLING: There are 12,000 terror attacks in 2013; 12,000 attacks that killed people in 2013 and 70 percent came from at least one of the combatants being Muslim. If in the writings, they call for if you don't believe in Allah then you should be killed in the most extreme faction of Islam says kill people who don't believe in that. Christianity and Judaism may have had that in the past but they reform.


BOLLING: They -- they got to the point where they said, "OK, we can co- exist with other religions. It doesn't have to be God or what you have believed in and the other people die." The Muslim faith hasn't evolved to that.


BOLLING: And here's on Ali says they need to hurry up and step up and do that and make it more mainstream to perform rather than the fringe (ph).


BOLLING: And that's her point is that the reformists in Islam are the French (ph).


BOLLING: It should be reversed.

EARHARDT: So, Greg, I mean, Christians all over the world after this attack I know in my church I was in church on Maundy Thursday, last night, we're praying for these individuals. Christianity is a religion, in my opinion, of hope and peace, and we teach Chris's love. So, why is it that these -- these extremists, these Islamic extremists, why do they hate Christians so much? Why do they want to eradicate us?

GUTFELD: Well, I think the -- and interesting perspective is gained from this. An attack like this creates -- while Christians are being slaughtered by the dozens, in Indiana we are discussing hypotheticals about gay couples and pious pie makers. You cannot hold a persecution complex in the United States while there are massacres occurring all over the world. It's not about gay couples and it's not about bakeries or florists. It's about murdering hundreds of Christians.

Miley Cyrus is so brave going after that flatfooted governor on hypotheticals that didn't happen. Where was her outrage over real matter of fact murderous persecution? I would call her an ass but donkeys don't deserve that -- that comparison. The fact is we have people right now sending out death threats to pizzaries (ph). We have people worrying about hypotheticals not being invited here, not going there. This is not a hypothetical. This is happening around the world. So, enough with the tedious B.S. (ph).


GUTFELD: This is baby games compared to the hell that exists in this world.

BILA: I think there is a fear to speak out though. I mean, among even Muslims, the moderate Muslims, peaceful Muslims. The reform has to come from within. You need people within the Muslim community to gather together and to say, "We don't stand for this. This doesn't represent us," and over time if enough people do that you will reform.

EARHARDT: Well, if these were.

BILA: . components of the religion, and you will change the way the religion operates. Those -- those -- those radical elements won't be able to survive if they are no longer in the majority and eventually got weeded out. But unfortunately, people don't like to talk about this issue. They're scared.


BILA: . and it's not their priorities. Why, Greg, that it's easy to target a.


GUTFELD: Of course.

BILA: . (inaudible) in Indiana. That's easy, and you look really cool and everybody loves you and everybody praises you. This is hardwork. (CROSSTALK)

EARHARDT: But if it's a religion.

BILA: This is really hardwork.

EARHARDT: . that is -- that is deep within your soul, if you were raised like if -- if these were happening in a Christian faith, I would stand out and say.

BILA: Yeah.

EARHARDT: . stand up and say this is not what Christ was about. So, I'm ready for some of those moderates.

BILA: Yeah.

EARHARDT: . to stand up and be brave even if they are people (ph).

BILA I am.

EARHARDT: All right. Juan, if you look at the numbers, Pew Research Muslim- Christian population could be equal in 35 years by 2050. Islam is fastest growing on the planet. Islam is the largest religion -- religion according to Pew in 2070. So, why do you make of this? Why is this religion so popular?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think that obviously there are lots of Muslims who are having babies, and Muslims who are having babies grow their religion. And I might add here in terms of this discussion, you know, they intend to provoke us as Christians. They -- ISIS does this quite intentionally. They are willing to kill Muslims. I don't know if there's any question. Most of the people they kill are Muslims. Does that make - you see the fighting in the Middle East.

That's between Shia and Sunni and they fighting over who's the legitimate heir to the Prophet on (ph). So, they're killing each other. They're destabilizing each other's lives and countries and families. But what happens here is when you think about what happened in Libya where they killed those captive Christians that's ISIS.

You think about what happened now in -- in Kenya, they kill those folks because they want to start a war between the Christians and the Muslims. And remember Kenya is a mostly Christian country. They want to start a religious war right there. What you have is I think the Islamic extremist, the radical craze violent sector, trying to get us as Christians to react in that violent way.


GUTFELD: Can I add to that?


BOLLING: Yeah, it's a big -- I'm sorry. It's a -- it's not just a small -- the point is -- here's Ali points at, it's not just a small fringe faction within Islam.

WILLIAMS: No, I'm saying is.

BOLLING: It's more mainstream within each.

WILLIAMS: I don't know if it's Islam. I don't know if it's mainstream but I would say there's a large group of violent extremist Muslims who are coming to kill me and you.

BOLLING: Tens of millions.

GUTFELD: But the -- the - going back to the -- the growth of the religion worldwide, it is due to areas of the world where people are having big families. It is the opposite of the west. The West are having smaller families. They are -- they are by and large Christians or they're -- they're not religious but they are getting smaller.

And so it's not about conversion at all. It's about growth. And it raises a really freaky point. If you were born in Pakistan or in any Arab country you would most likely be Muslim. So, geography is destiny. And that reflects on what religion is.



WILLIAMS: Yeah, you mean, it's like one last quick point here. You know, something that concerns me was in a 60 minutes piece. I think we may have talked about this where, in fact, ISIS is -- has driven more than 125,000 Christians out of Iraq.



WILLIAMS: You know, and this is.

EARHARDT: Real scary.

WILLIAMS: . in first century Christians worshipping Jesus Christ, so many of the original papers, language, tradition wiped out by ISIS. They do that to anger people like me and, you know.


WILLIAMS: . to get you to think, "Oh, there's a religious war."



GUTFELD: Most outspoken person on this Ayaan Hirsi Ali, is an atheist. Do not forget that.

BALI: Yeah.

EARHARDT: And I'm hearing your message is procreate.

BALI: Pro-Christian.

EARHARDT: Procreate this weekend.

GUTFELD: Not right now. I have plans.


EARHARDT: What do you -- it's not right now.


WILLIAMS: Come on.

EARHARDT: Before we end the segment, I do want to say these one - the scriptures that come to mind because it is Holy Week, "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding, and in this world, you may have trouble but take heart." I have overcome the world. That gives me hope.

BOLLING: Here we go.

BALI: Now, we go. (ph).

EARHARDT: More people are carrying guns in Detroit and that is a good thing according to the city's police chief. That is coming up next.


GUTFELD: It went from motors to magnums, from the Olds 88 to the .38.  Detroit is now gun friendly for law-abiding citizens. As James Craig -- Detroit's police chief -- notes, Michigan's liberalized gun laws have made it easier to get concealed carry permits, and he doesn't mind, because he's a realist. Roll it, Pablo.


JAMES CRAIG, DETROIT POLICE CHIEF: Here in Detroit people didn't have a lot of confidence that when they dialed 911 that the police were going to show up.


GUTFELD: So you can't blame people for wanting to protect themselves as they see the reality of law enforcement: that law is enforced only after the law shows up. Which could be a problem if you're already dead.

So it's no surprise good people start packing. Detroit's a Wild West in need of order, and the people are figuring out what brings it. Only a piece brings the peace.

As this Pew study finds that 54 percent of blacks now see gun ownership as a good thing reflected in a rise of concealed weapons permits. So no matter how hard the establishment media tries, they can't convince good people how bad guns are when they are in the right hands.

Perhaps the media misses the big point. They do their theorizing from the fish bowl of a well-protected studio and travel to and from work at reasonable hours through tony neighborhoods in secure vehicles.

The fine people of Detroit don't have that luxury. They realize any argument against arming yourself is full of holes, which is not the way they'd like to end up being.

All right. Who can -- who agrees with me that this guy is right?

BILA: I do.

GUTFELD: We're done. That's how we do our gun segments here.

Can you blame people for not wanting to arm themselves, if the police aren't going to arrive?

BILA: It's crazy. And even if the police do arrive it's going to take some time. And what can happen in that period of time? This is such a common-sense argument I don't understand how anyone can refuse the right of people, of law-abiding citizens who go through background checks, who are checked out, to arm themselves, to protect themselves, to protect their families when you know that the bad guys are going to get access to guns no matter what and you're going to be victimized in the process, unless you can defend yourself. I have yet to hear a sensible argument from the opposing side on this issue.

WILLIAMS: Well, let me try.

GUTFELD: She said sensible, Juan.

WILLIAMS: She said common sense. I can't do that. But I can try.

BILA: You want me to challenge you (ph)?

WILLIAMS: I mean, my worry is that, you know what? More guns, especially in bad neighborhoods, where there's a lot of violence, just accelerates the violence.

GUTFELD: Does it, though?

WILLIAMS: And in homes I think the most likely person is going to get shot is me by my wife.

GUTFELD: I don't blame her.

WILLIAMS: I know. But let me just say that I have lots of friends who now are with this new majority. I don't know if they're a majority that support the idea that everybody should have a gun. But they are more open to this idea, according to the poll.


WILLIAMS: But what's interesting, my friend is a Supreme Court justice, Clarence Thomas. So he wrote in a case he said, "You know what? You go back and you will see that in days of slavery, segregation and all, guess what. White people didn't want black people to have guns. You know what?  Because black rebels and revolutionaries would shoot back at the KKK."

GUTFELD: Right, exactly.

WILLIAMS: So now you're in a situation -- and the case he wrote this in involved a 76-year-old black man from Chicago. So Mr. -- yes, Mr. McDonald. Mr. McDonald says to the court, "You know what? There are too many gang bangers. There are too many bad guys in my Chicago neighborhood."

Justice Thomas says, in response, the problem is not the guns. We don't have too many guns. We've got too many criminals around here.


WILLIAMS: So his position is with Justice Gutfeld.

GUTFELD: Yes, it's true. By the way, that's why Charlton Heston was so strong on the Second Amendment, was for blacks, that they'd be able to protect themselves.

WILLIAMS: That was the point.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly.

WILLIAMS: But I must say, I don't think white people -- by the way, white people are the ones who love guns the most, right? Whites and Republicans.  And I don't think they're going to be so happy if all the black people who are so angry about the police...

EARHARDT: Not true.

WILLIAMS: ... end up with guns.

GUTFELD: Because we're racist.

BILA: Responsible citizens, regardless of...


WILLIAMS: No, it's that white people, Republicans...

GUTFELD: We're all racists.

BILA: Not true.

Juan, white Republicans are not going to be in favor of black people having guns.

WILLIAMS: No, I said that black people who are upset with the police being a little bit aggressive, I think that's going to be -- woo -- fireworks.

GUTFELD: I'm for every single law-abiding citizen to have a piece.

EARHARDT: Oh, I agree. I grew up in the south, though. My dad hunts; my brother hunts.

GUTFELD: Your gun has a gun.

EARHARDT: Yes, my dad -- all of his guns have guns. Seriously, though, I mean, we knew growing up, I always felt safe, because Dad, I knew, was going to blow someone's head off if they tried to come into our house.  Sorry, that's just...

GUTFELD: You must have had a great dating life.

EARHARDT: Right. He did clean his guns several times. And it wasn't on purpose. He just talks a lot. So they would come in, and he's, like, got them all in the living room.


EARHARDT: I agree. I think if you're responsible, if you have a license to carry, why not?

BOLLING: A little anecdotal experience. Law enforcement also is in favor of the good guys having the guns, very much in favor. I go to a hunting -- I go to a range: half law enforcement, half regular citizens walking around. They work together; we work together great. They're much in favor of people owning guns and knowing how to use their gun. That's the most important thing. That if it's legal and it's open, and you're allowed to have it, you can go and understand how to use a gun. That's the biggest thing.

WILLIAMS: You know, I hear you guys. I just worry about Newtown; I worry about Columbine.

GUTFELD: Don't worry about it. There is no place on earth where a gun ban has actually reduced murder rates. And we're just reporting these things more. Newtown is terrible, horrible. Horrible, horrible. But the fact is, these things are rare, and we have to deal with how those people -- how those people get guns.

EARHARDT: To play devil's advocate, what if someone at that school had a gun, the teacher did? Or what if someone in that theater had a gun?

WILLIAMS: Are you kidding? They had an attack at Fort Hood. A lot of people had guns.

GUTFELD: No, they didn't!

WILLIAMS: Yes, yes. What, are you kidding? They did not have guns in the unit is what you're talking about.

GUTFELD: Yes. They're not allowed to have them.

WILLIAMS: Everybody around had them.

BOLLING: What's the point of having them if you can't get them?

GUTFELD: And they weren't able to stop them until an armed security got there. The fact is, the duration of a mass shootout is dictated by the arrival of a second gun. That is a fact.

GUTFELD: Yes, so we -- my feeling, let's do what Ainsley's Christian dad would say: let us talk and stop shooting each other.

BILA: Criminals aren't listening to you. That's the problem, Juan.

GUTFELD: All right.

WILLIAMS: Neither are Republicans.

EARHARDT: Dad wouldn't be so graceful, though, if a burglar comes into his house. Sorry.

GUTFELD: Yes, well, all right. We've got to move on. Hillary Clinton has reportedly found a so-called cool home for her presidential campaign.  That's her pointing. We'll tell you where when "The Five" returns.


BILA: Well, another sign Hillary Clinton is close to announcing another presidential bid coming? According to a new report, her team has just signed a lease for her campaign headquarters in New York's hip and upscale Brooklyn Heights neighborhood, just outside of Manhattan.

On its website, the building markets itself as modern offices, Brooklyn cool.

Greg, Brooklyn Heights is my favorite neighborhood. I am in mourning today; hence all of the black. What do you think of this? I mean, Hillary Clinton is nothing if not Brooklyn cool, right?

GUTFELD: Here's the reason why she picked Brooklyn. There's a lot of shops there that are selling artisanal pant suits. These are lovingly crafted, handmade, two-piece ensembles, fabricated from organic, free-range wool. They're completely biodegradable, earth friendly, and they're anti- bully. They cost $40,000, but they're good for the planet.

BILA: Wow. That's amazing. Juan is shaking his head. He's on board.


BILA: What do you think of this, Juan? Do you think there is some sort of strategic mindset that went with it? Was it convenience, access to buses, access to -- Why did she go with this, do you think?

WILLIAMS: Well, I think it's in New York. I think that, secondly, when this is really key, I think that it's easy access to all that you were talking about. Not only planes, trains but also airplanes. And I think Hillary now, according to the law, looks like she's about to announce in April.

BILA: Yes.

WILLIAMS: That's the big news here.

BOLLING: You know what else it does, strategically? It gets her away from Wall Street. And that's the one thing she's going to have to distance herself from, is...


BOLLING: She -- everyone knows she's going to get a ton of money from Wall Street, but the last thing she needs is to be the Wall Street candidate.  She'll get eaten alive. So if she gets outside the city, that's a little...

WILLIAMS: Brooklyn is in the city, you know.

BOLLING: I know. Outside Manhattan.

EARHARDT: Yes. Brooklyn is young; Brooklyn is hip. Brooklyn is not as expensive -- not quite as expensive, even though Brooklyn Heights is a very nice neighborhood. Not quite as expensive as renting out two floors in a building in Manhattan.

It's very easy. It's one subway stop outside of the city, although I doubt she'll be riding the subway. But the FEC requires her to announce after she has spent $5,000. She has 15 days to make that announcement. So I feel like she's going to announce soon.

GUTFELD: It's also the only area where Bill Clinton hasn't slept with everybody.

BILA: How do you know that?

GUTFELD: It's very awkward.

BILA: I don't know if there are areas left.

GUTFELD: No, it's true, it's true. He hasn't made it that far down.

BILA: I think this is a chance for her, though. I mean, she is viewed as sort of dull and out of touch. And I think choosing a hip location, I think the hope was, "You know what? Young people will like this. They'll see me a little bit differently." Might have been something beyond just the strategy of location here. And she's looking to reshape her image.  No?

WILLIAMS: I agree. I think she has to reshape her image, because otherwise, it's a rerun, right? It's a rerun back to the '90s. And that's not good. And the second thing it's a coronation, and that's not good. So I think she needs some energy. And Brooklyn is seen as, as you were saying, artistic and hip.

EARHARDT: Yes. Artsy, yes.

GUTFELD: Better for a hip location than a hip dislocation.

WILLIAMS: That wasn't nice.

BILA: You are so clever.

How much time? Eric, how much time before she announces, given that she did this? She's obviously making steps...

BOLLING: Word is possibly the end of next week.

BILA: End of next week?

BOLLING: That's the whisper.

BILA: OK. And if she jumps in end of next week, then do you think the Republicans are going to start piling in right away? Or what are we going to see?

BOLLING: I think you're going to see...

BILA: Pressure is on.

BILA: All of a sudden, Marco Rubio's eyes open.

BOLLING: I have a hunch you might see some Republicans next week.

EARHARDT: She's sending some of her aides, too. Some to Iowa and New Hampshire. She sent her campaign manager in waiting and her top political aide to those states.

WILLIAMS: Yes, and RNC has "Stop Hillary." They own stop Hillary. Their whole work shop, their whole brain room, the whole negative shop. Stop Hillary.

BILA: We've got to be ready. We are ready for you, Hillary. Bring it on.

All right. Coming up next, Grandpa Juan over here has a story to tell us about this picture of his adorable grandkids. It's something a lot of parents out there understand.

EARHARDT: Juan, they're so cute.

BILA: Stick with us. We're going to hear about that coming up next.


WILLIAMS: As many of you know, I'm a very proud grandfather. three beautiful grandchildren. And boy, are they ever agitating me?

When I was a dad -- and I'm still a dad, but when I was a dad with young kids and took them out to a nice dinner, we would hand them a book or give them, you know, a Transformer to play with to keep them occupied and quiet.  Kind of like what I do with Gutfeld.

But these days here is what's happening. That's right. There's Pepper and Wesley at dinner, and what are they doing? They're watching -- I don't know if it's a movie or whatever, but they're watching a hand -- you know, an iPhone. This is the i-generation. And this is going on through dinner.

And I appreciate, to one degree -- there's Elias, who's going to be 5 on Monday. Eli is watching on his own iPad. This is at dinner. So they're not talking to the old guys. I must say, I appreciate it in the sense that I get to eat my dinner. But you know, those cuties, it would be nice if they'd talk to the old guy once in a while.

So what did I do? I went and I looked up the numbers. Now it's the case that 72 percent of people who are 2 years old, 72 percent of people who are 2 year olds -- that's how old the twins are -- 2 years old. Seventy-six percent of 2-year-olds in America know how to use these mobile devices.

I'm thinking, "Wow, this is -- this is so different. This is radically different. This is a different generation. Their brains are going to work differently. And also why can't they talk to me, Greg?"

GUTFELD: I don't know. They're PC-trained before they're potty-trained.  And the reason is, is this technology is really more interesting than people. Separate this from nearby people in favor of people far away, but we've also said the same thing about television, you know, 50, 60 years ago.

As you know, I have five children. I only let them -- I only let them play with a toaster that -- in a wig. And they're actually really not children.  They're drifters that I picked up.

WILLIAMS: Is that what it was?

GUTFELD: Yes. I have them tied up in a storage container. But you know what? I like to keep them fit.

WILLIAMS: Well, you know, Steve Jobes [SIC] -- Steve Jobs, I should say.

GUTFELD: Or Jobes.

WILLIAMS: But Steve Jobs...

BOLLING: The biblical version.

WILLIAMS: ... when he was asked, he said, you know, basically, he didn't let his kids mess around with the technology a whole lot.

And so, you know, it's kind of curious: how much do you let your kids have this stuff? Like, my daughter doesn't let them watch TV during the week.  They get two hours on the weekend. But at dinner or in the back of the car or on vacation or on an airplane, they get, you know, an iPad or they get the iPhone.

EARHARDT: Maybe there are exceptions, right? What did you do with your son?

BOLLING: We let him use technology. He would watch movies on an iPad.  Now when it's dinner time, he puts the phone away. As hard as it is for him, he has to put it away.

But you're right, though. They're growing up -- they're growing up with differently wired brains.

WILLIAMS: Exactly.

BOLLING: My concern is, if you looked at your grandkids, do you see how close their faces were to the screen?

WILLIAMS: Oh, yes, they're laying it in.

BOLLING: I hope they're not hurting their eyes or anything like that. The physiology of it may be hurting them. The jury's still out on it. Look how close they are.

WILLIAMS: They're learning in.

BILA: Mesmerized.

GUTFELD: Thank you, Greg.

EARHARDT: I did talk to my mom and my sister about this. They're -- my mom is a retired school teacher, and my sister teaches early childhood development, little kids. And they both agree everything in moderation.

You know, Mom said you really need to tell your kids they need to go outside and play. They need to be playing with other things, with Play- Doh, with puzzles that teaches fine motor skills.

But she said that they had a computer in their classroom. I think she said they had five. So the kids had to rotate. So they learned how to share, and they were only playing computer games. So they were -- it was basically a glorified worksheet, she said.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I think a media diet is important. Including technologically. I don't think it's good to just become obsessed with these devices. I will say you know what? Sometimes, especially now, they've got to know how to use them. They've got to know how to play with them, how to think on them. So I understand, but you know, it hurts an old man's feelings when you don't talk to him.

BILA: And don't forget those social skills, though, I always say, because these kids, like the younger kids, just from teaching them, I notice they're so reliant on these devices that they forget communications skills.

Like, we had to talk to people. They don't have to talk to people, a lot of these young kids. They just don't have to. They have other options.

GUTFELD: Let's not forget: kids are really stupid. I mean, you ever talk to kids? They don't know anything. They can barely talk. They're so dumb. Keep them away from me. Play with their toys. Don't talk to me.

WILLIAMS: Ignore that man. Ignore that man.

BILA: He's a horrible person.

WILLIAMS: "One More Thing" coming up next. Stay with us.


BOLLING: All right. Time for "One More Thing," and Ainsley kicks it off.

EARHARDT: I am so excited about this, because it is Easter weekend. So I brought a gift for each of you.

GUTFELD: Oh, wow.

EARHARDT: Look behind you, everyone.


EARHARDT: You have one, too.


BILA: Wow!

EARHARDT: I made each of you an Easter basket.

BOLLING: That's so sweet, Ainsley.

EARHARDT: Open -- open the green egg. Yours is falling off. Because my mom used to do this, and I always loved this. Your green egg is your money egg.

WILLIAMS: Oh, my gosh!

EARHARDT: You each got a dollar!

WILLIAMS: Oh, my gosh!

GUTFELD: You know, I love Peeps, because I do a lot of peeping.

BILA: Ainsley, you're my new favorite person.

EARHARDT: But your name is not Tom.

BILA: Wow.

BOLLING: That's so sweet. Happy Easter.

EARHARDT: Happy Easter to all of you.

WILLIAMS: Thank you very much.

EARHARDT: You're welcome.

BILA: Thank you so much, Ainsley.

BOLLING: All right, Greg, you're up.

GUTFELD: I can't top this.

BILA: You can't top this.

EARHARDT: You never gave us cash.

BILA: Jellybeans. Jellybeans for me.

GUTFELD: All right. This basket's going to be useful later.

Hey, I can't see. So you know, I'm going to be on Howie Kurtz's show Sunday at 11 a.m., talking about stuff. But this is interesting, and it happened on "The Price of Right" -- "The Price is Right." Something stupid. Go. Wow.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nineteen thousand, eight forty-nine.

CAREY: Nineteen thousand, eight forty-nine. Go ahead, Manuela.

No.  Oh!


CAREY: Congratulations. Manuela just gave you a car!


GUTFELD: So the good news is the contestant actually won the car. The bad news is the model, Manuela, was arrested and deported, and she's now in a gulag. Which is horrible. You know, "Price is Right" is an evil place.

No, she's fine. I'm kidding. Or am I? Who cares?

EARHARDT: Did you like how she tried to put it back?

GUTFELD: And then she hid. She hid, like no one knew where she went.

WILLIAMS: Did you see her?


WILLIAMS: She can do anything she wants.

BOLLING: Let's move on to this.

GUTFELD: Juan Williams.

BOLLING: It's Friday. We usually do "Fool of the Week," but you know, it's a holy weekend, so let's not do "Fool of the Week" this week.  Instead, we'll lighten it up a little bit. The first lady, Michelle Obama, with Jimmy Fallon dancing, revisiting their "Evolution of Mom Dancing."  Here's part two.



GRAPHIC: The "Knock Knock."

The "Getting a Bag from Your Collection of Plastic Bags Under the Sink."

The "Barack Obama."

The "Jimmy Fallon."


BOLLING: Great sport and you know what? Pretty darn good dancer.

All right. You're up, Juanito.

WILLIAMS: All right. So Deion Sanders Jr., sophomore football player for SMU Mustangs and the son of Deion Sanders, the Hall of Fame football player, CBS analyst, he took to Twitter the other day to proclaim that he has to have his hood donuts in a white box every morning, like he's a street dude. Authentic. But guess what? His dad fired back and said -- tweeting, "You're a Huxtable, a millionaire trust-fund kid. Stop with the hood stuff."

I wish this could be boomed out to every -- these middle-class black kids all over America. You don't have to be a hood to be black.

BOLLING: There you go. Great one, great one. Jed, you're up.

BILA: All right. It's Easter. Happy Easter, everyone. I have the most amazing video for you. This is a Boston terrier who's going to help you do your spring cleaning. You know you can't have a good Easter egg hunt without spring cleaning. Greg's head is blowing up right now, just so you guys know. Look at that baby.




GUTFELD: He's terrified.

BILA: He's not scared.

GUTFELD: You think this is funny?

BILA: He's a helper. He loves it.

BOLLING: PETA's going to call this person.  BILA: Look at the baby.

BOLLING: He doesn't like the ears on his head.

GUTFELD: It's humiliating.

BILA: It is not humiliating.

GUTFELD: You bully dogs.

BOLLING: And we'll leave it right there. That's it for us. Have a great weekend, everybody. Happy Easter...

WILLIAMS: Yes, bye-bye.

BOLLING: ... or Passover to all those who observe. Set your DVR. Never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" on deck.

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