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The Five

President Obama's use of force request comes with conditions

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," February 11, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City, this is "The Five."

More than six months after launching a bombing campaign to degrade and destroy ISIS, the president has asked Congress for authorization to extend the use of military force for three more years. Here's President Obama addressing the nation a short while ago on his long-term strategy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: This resolution reflects our core objective to destroy ISIL. A systemic and sustained campaign of air strikes against ISIL in Iraq and Syria, support and training for local forces on the ground, including the moderate Syrian opposition, preventing ISIL attacks in the region and beyond, including, by foreign terrorist fighter who try to threaten our countries.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Well, he went on to describe what the strategy does not entail.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

OBAMA: The resolution we submitted today does not call for the deployment of U.S. ground combat forces to Iraq or Syria. It is not the authorization of another ground war like Afghanistan or Iraq.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: So the president is convinced we should not get dragged into another ground war, but these generals, defense secretaries and Intel officials argue a ground war is the only way we're gonna win.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

ROBERT GATES, FORMER U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: They're not gonna be able to be successful against ISIS, strictly from the air. There will be boots on the ground.

GEN. MICHAEL HAYDEN, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Doing this through airpower alone, without corresponding ground forces is a next to impossible task.

MICHAEL MORELL, FORMER DEPUTY CIA DIRECTOR: Unless the coalition is willing to put more ground troops into Iraq and possibly into Syria, there is very little we can do to respond.

CHARLIE ROSE, CBS THIS MORNING SHOW HOST: How many respond would it take?

MORELL: I think it would take 100,000.

CHUCK HAGEL, U.S. SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: You know, I think it may require a forward deployment of some of our troops.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

BOLLING: So Dana, he didn't rule out ground troops at all. He just said we won't go out with an enduring offensive ground operation.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: It's -- it's mealy-mouthed to me. Let's just go back a couple years. In 2013, President Obama gave a speech at the National Defense University in which he said, "We are ending the conflicts in Iraq and Afghanistan and I am calling for the withdrawal and repeal of the authorization to use military force that was established in 2001." Now, he's actually going to continue to use the authorization to use military force in 2001 and he's adding another one. He is pushing what he thinks he can get through the Congress, mostly because Democrats are going to give him a hard time, not Republicans. And it's much less than what the generals are saying they need, you saw a compilation of them there. It also continues the ridiculous use of time lines in military actions. It did take away the geographic restrictions, which I think is important because, ISIS doesn't think it's just staying in this contained little area, they are spreading around. The bottom line is it's actually not that big a deal. I think this is going to be a little bit of a smorgasbord of policy making Capitol Hill, I think he will get an authorization to use military force and we will continue to have a military and intelligence service that does what it needs to do within those parameters. My last thing on this is when he says he's asking for a three-year thing, I think that does the next president of the United States, whoever it is -- a disservice.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yes.

PERINO: Because that means, that the first thing that that president is going to have to do instead of being able to do whatever is necessary, they're gonna have to spend a lot of capital to try to get a new authorization to use military force because, let's not kid ourselves, we're going to need it.

BOLLING: So, in contract law, you put a term on it, I get that. I understand that he wants a three-year -- but he went further. This -- is meant to imply that the U.S. will end its anti-ISIS operation within three years -- whether we win or not. And that it --

GUILFOYLE: But this is what he does.

BOLLING: But Kimberly, you hear President Obama saying.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

BOLLING: He will win at the podium, but we're not so sure what exactly the force --

GUILFOYLE: Because degrading is not winning. It isn't. And that's the problem. He's not prepared to do whatever it takes and he's telling them that. If I were sitting there listening and I'm the leadership of ISIS, I'm like, OK. Yeah, much ado about nothing, again this guy. He didn't really accomplish anything with this, because we could have already, we really had the authority to be able to do, we need to do right now. All he did was hamstring whoever's going to be his successor with unnecessary verbiage and paperwork, right? Because he doesn't want any enduring ground force offensive. But that's what you need in order to win. Whose side are you playing for?

BOLLING: So -- are we winning? If you listen to President Obama, we are winning. We're pushing him back, their morale is broken. Yet, we hear 20,000 foreign fighters.

GUILFOYLE: Fighters.

BOLLING: Are joining the fight and as many as 150 Americans, 3,400 westerners by the way.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I don't -- I actually don't think he was that bad, today. I mean, I thought that he actually had some more emotion than usual. However, there is no prenup in war. I don't understand, you know, announcing a limited engagement like it's some kind of small foreign independent film playing at the marquee down the street. He's essentially announcing the exit strategy before he even entered. Saying no ground war is like, telling your kids they'll never be grounded. There has to be consequences. And then -- it goes back to I think, what I would call the root cause of all of this issue for -- these issues for him is George Bush. When he says he doesn't want to be dragged back into these -- these wars, he's basically, still kind of thinking about Bush. It's his obsession with Bush that prevents him from crushing ISIS. It's like, you had a really bad first marriage and it's preventing you from committing again, and I think that's --

GUILFOYLE: Not me.

GUTFELD: How we looks at it.

GUILFOYLE: Not me.

GUTFELD: No. But I mean, the thing is, I wish -- I wish he had as much passion for security as he did for fund-raising. Maybe he should look at terrorists as wallets.

BOLLING: So -- so Greg makes a very good point, Bob, that -- the part of the reason we have an ISIS is because President Obama announced the troop drawdown in advance of drawing down the troops, not as things were getting better. He said, at this date we're going to be down to 50,000. At this date, we're going to be down to 15,000. At this date we're going to be out. If you're a terrorist organization, why would you just wait those dates out?

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: You're assuming that -- A, there was no ISIS before that, at least maybe not by their name, but they've been radical Islamists --

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Are you saying, but we haven't just to say?

BECKEL: But we will not be -- we'll never defeat, completely defeat them. There's ways going to be some fringe edge of the Muslim --

GUILFOYLE: You mean offshoot?

BECKEL: Now, yeah. There'll be -- we're not going to be able to knock them all down. But the other thing is, I think what he did for the next president was a good thing. Instead of saying I'm gonna end it right of when I leave office, that means you gonna through the whole process of trying-- now is the new president --

PERINO: Why not just leave it opened-ended? Why say, this is going to end in three years?

BECKEL: Well, because the idea of the --

PERINO: Why?

BECEKL: Wow, why not?

PERINO: Because we know that --

GUILFOYLE: Benefits.

PERINO: Do you think that the next president of the United States wants to spend any of their time having to worry about passing a new authorization to use military force in their first year?

BECKEL: But what if --

PERINO: Whoever it is, they're not gonna want to have to do that.

BECKEL: If they would, if they would --

GUILFOYLE: They already have to fix all of his other mistakes like Obamacare.

BECKEL: But -- listen, let's assume --

GUILFOYLE: Busy.

BECKEL: Let's assume that my man Teddy Cruz, that he'll want to increase the number of troops. They want --

PERINO: Not necessarily. It depends on what the --

BOLLING: You know, what's happened.

PERINO: What the situation on is on the ground.

BECKEL: So what's your problem with him? I mean, he's not -- it's gonna be irrelevant to. They can pass whatever they want to pass.

PERINO: Oh, Bob.

GUILFOYLE: So he didn't to --

BOLLING: So, can I just throw something out here? GUILFOYLE: Yet, you have to justify an argument why he did it.

BOLLING: There's another piece of news that came out earlier today, which I kind of find it shocking. Tehran, Iran, Tehran has said they will train Iraqi forces. Now, does anyone here -- let me start with you Bob, you're familiar with Iran. Does this -- does this suppose a problem when U.S. military people are gonna be arm in arm with Iraqi -- with the Iranians that train Iraqis? This doesn't sound like a problem to you?

BECKEL: It sounds like a very big problem to you. And I also don't quite understand, we're supposed to be training these guys for a long time and we haven't done a very good job, obviously. The Iranians gonna come in, I think it's demeaning to us, to have a -- plus the fact, to some the potential of having Iranians running around with guns all over Iraq. I mean --

PERINO: They already are.

BECKEL: Yeah, but that not in an organized forces, they have not.

PERINO: I think that we need -- there's -- there's a desire in some places in Washington, mostly at the White House and some people that support them. That have this notion that Iran really is actually on its heels that Rouhani is actually a moderate, that they don't really want to get a nuclear weapon and they just want to get a deal, because the sanctions have been so hard. Then you talk to people that are experts that look at this and say, actually, Iran is flexing muscle in every part of the Middle East, including Bahrain, Yemen, one of the -- one of the points about the whole piece about the Jordanian pilot being burned alive, was they wanted to draw Jordan into a conflict, so that they could actually be the powerbroker of the Middle East. And we are continuing to shelter this idea that we could have talks with Iran and then everything is going to be OK. I think what's really foolhardy.

BOLLING: And we are --

GUILFOYLE: Naive.

BOLLING: And we are hearing leaks that there are a lot, there's a lot more dealings going on with Iran than we're being told, a lot of backdoor dealings.

BECKEL: The other thing is, I hate to say it, but you sort of wish for Saddam Hussein to be around to keep the Iranians in check.

BOLLING: Well, -- you know.

GUTFELD: And gas more Kurds.

BOLLING: There are -- there are people, who would say, keep -- keep your dictators in place because they keep things calmer in Syria, maybe even other parts of the Middle East. Can I do this?

GUTFELD: Yes, sure.

BOLLING: Over the past few days the Obama administration has been clear that with respect to ISIS al-Qaeda, they're both, supposedly on the run. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHUCK TODD, MEET THE PRESS SHOW HOST: Are we actually winning and -- our goal of diminishing and eventually destroying ISIS?

JOHN KERRY, UNITED STATES SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, I believe we are on the road to, yes. I absolutely do. And I think the evidence is not in my saying it, but it's in the facts of what is happening.

OBAMA: We're destroying their fighting positions. We're taking out their commanders, their fighters, and their leaders. We've seen reports of sinking morale among ISIL fighters as they realize the futility of their cause.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: So what do we do, Greg? I mean, we're hearing from the administration saying, we're winning but a lot of reports, the additional foreign fighters coming over, maybe we're not winning.

GUTFELD: This is the -- this is the importance of espionage, infiltration, spying. They're done in secret to find out the secrets, what they're doing, and that must be embraced. We went through the last couple of years rejecting it through the antics of Snowden and Manning and Assange, but we need to know what evil is up to. America has been very lucky. We've benefited from oceans and distance. But today, seeing President Obama up there, refutes any -- any remaining shred that America can get up and leave the table to go watch ESPN in their underwear.

GUILFOYLE: Never.

GUTFELD: Whenever we leave, evil breeds. And I mean, this is a guy that didn't want to go to war and now he's back there. He is the poster child for American intervention.

GUILFOYLE: But that's what happens when you get a rapid-fire education from community organizer to commander in chief. And he should recall, he was so quick to criticize his predecessors, and now look where he stands. And if he had acted more quickly, we wouldn't be in the position that we're in.

BOLLING: Can I throw this around very quickly. What do we do with the 150 or so, if that's all it is? Americans with American passports who are now fighting for ISIS? What do we -- Dana, what do we do? This is one of the issues that you brought up a while ago.

PERINO: Well I think, first and foremost you have to figure out how to track them if they want to return to the United States. They have a passport, so the most important thing is to be able to track them and if there's some reason to apprehend them, I think that maybe -- I don't know all the legal requirements, but if there's a reason to hold them and interrogate, I think that would be responsible thing to do.

GUTFELD: I said yesterday, you got to create terror magnets. It's like when police office -- police departments send out you want a free camper? And all the people show up and you arrest them. You create magnets for these people, whether you insult them through a magazine or you -- or you set up some kind of recruiting thing. You set them up, they come and then you kill them.

BOLLING: K.G.?

GUILFOYLE: I don't know. I would just, Hi. The Lord give it, the Lord take it away. Handle over the passport.

BOLLING: And kill them.

GUILFOYLE: I --

BOLLING: And that treason -- isn't that treason right there?

GUILFOYLE: You know, I mean I don't know --

BOLLING: It's the very definition --

GUILFOYLE: I -- I have no problem with, you know, killing people who commit treason against the United States.

BOLLING: Right.

GUILFOYLE: So, you know, you know where I stand.

BOLLING: Put it down, put it down, quick. Bobby?

BECKEL: You know -- they all automatically break the law by going over and engaging with the enemy. I mean, so you bring them in and you arrest them and you charge them -- it's terrorist.

GUILFOYLE: It's gonna -- it's gonna to take an act of terrorism here in the United States by one of these guys and then we're gonna act on it.

BECKEL: You can't -- but you can't -- you can't take them up when they come back over if they would. And you do battle against somebody who is fighting us?

PERINO: We should be able to hope that you catch them.

GUILFOYLE: They should be -- yeah, you catch them before they do something, but the bottom line is we're not going to be able to catch all of them because it's too loose. We're like too busy apologizing and worrying about people's you know, feelings.

BOLLING: They can see pride into this something more (ph) Bobby.

BECKEL: As he appears (ph) on that.

BOLLING: Alright, we got to leave. We could leave right now.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Courage.

BOLLING: Coming up, a six-month suspension for a 12-year-long-lie. NBC delivers its punishment to Brian Williams. Was it harsh enough? Can Williams really return to the anchor, that's this summer? How did NBC address that decision on air today? All that coming up, on "The Five."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Six months without pay. That's NBC's punishment for the managing editor and anchor of its nightly newscast, for telling false stories about a 2003 trip to Iraq. In a statement, NBC called Brian Williams' actions, inexcusable, inappropriate, and wrong, but left the door open for his return saying, he deserves a second chance. Williams' colleagues Matt Lauer and Savannah Guthrie addressed the decision on the Today show this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MATT LAUER, NBC'S THE TODAY SHOW CO-HOST: This is a very difficult story for us to report on, because it is so, so personal in so many ways. Most importantly, Brian is not only a colleague of ours here, but he's a really good friend.

SAVANNAH GUTHRIE, NBC'S THE TODAY SHOW CO-HOST: We all care a lot about Brian. That's what makes this so hard. We also care a lot about this place.

LAUER: Right.

GUTHRIE: The standards of NBC news. And that's what NBC is trying to balance here. So we can only say we wish the best for Brian in this time. We hope the best for NBC as well, and we look forward to Brian's return.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: What is it, make of that, Ben Greg?

GUTFELD: It's Savannah -- it was like the Serengeti out there. She just tore Brian Williams apart. Just -- Oh, you know, we're really worried about him, but you know, we have these standards. Basically she said, he's -- he's screwed. I think NBC sensed the cascade of fibbery (ph) that was not going to stop. It was going to keep going. It was like an incontinent dog, you got to get him outside before he ruins all the rugs.

GUILFOYLE: Remember that?

BECKEL: What is it?

GUTFELD: The incontinent dog.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: Ruins all the rugs, I figure.

GUTFELD: I find it interesting that at lot of the defense for Brian Williams and Bill O'Reilly used this, which I think is incorrect, the mob mentality that is going after him, and somehow that's unfair. But, he did something wrong. It wasn't an opinion. It's like if a group of diners get food poisoning in a restaurants, their sickness isn't a mob response. It's response to the guy doing a poor job. And Brian Williams did a poor job. The people that are upset, it's not a mob mentality. It's a natural reaction to an incompetence that has to be corrected.

PERINO: Kimberly, do you think that a six-month suspension was the right call here by NBC?

GUILFOYLE: I think it's a clever decision because what I think they're going to do is test it out in the intern. In his absence, they gonna see how the ratings go with someone who's his replacement. And if it takes, then there's a strong argument if time passes, people forget, then, OK, bring him back. But if somebody comes in, knocks it out of the park and maintains or equals, you know, his ratings or even exceeds them, there will be a strong argument for them to move forward and part ways. But the people that I talk to, and one of my doctor friends said, listen, I love him, I watched him for years and he would continue to watch him and give him a second chance. I think there are people that really like him, that are used to seeing him there, like you know, set their clock by it.

PERINO: Bob, do you think that a temporary suspension is actual a permanent one, where they just wanted to soften the blow?

BECKEL: Yeah, I do. And also think -- think about it. If you brought him back, everything he said would be suspect, right? I mean, they go over with it with a fine toothed comb. The other thing is he didn't make a mistake. He made up news -- made up news. And that is a big distinction. And so I think, he's toast.

PERINO: Let's take a look at the pilot who actually brought attention to every -- brought this to everyone's attention, and they said that -- the RPG absolutely did not hit that helicopter. He had a gracious response.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALLAN KELLY, ARMY PILOT: I think everybody should be held accountable for their actions. I feel that way about myself, but I also appreciate the wisdom that the president of NBC showed in -- well displaying some compassion and some proportion to the punishment that was handled down to him. I hate to see somebody lose their career over making a mistake.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: I'm still so confused by that word "a mistake." Because, if it's a mistake -- I mean --

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Is it a mistake or a lie? I mean --

BOLLING: Well, I mean, he -- for him to say he misremember, that's a lie. I mean -- part of the issue here is that came out -- this punishment came down pretty swiftly. I think everyone's kind of caught by surprise how fast they made a decision to do this, because there was going to be an investigation. But as Greg points out, they probably started the investigation, found so many, they were like, uh-oh, we better put it -- we have to stop the bleeding right now. But, I think it's a mistake to put a time limit on it, just like it would be a mistake to put a time limit on beating ISIS. Put it temporary. A temporary suspension, we'll visit this as time goes. He's going to be eligible --

PERINO: I don't know if it's right.

BOLLING: Everyone's doing the six-month time limit now, they're doing the math on it, there are gonna be probably 15 or 20 presidential candidates who are announcing within a month of that six-month period. You have to say, do you really want Brian Williams right now -- I mean, look, I feel -- I feel bad that the guy has put himself in this position, but he has. They made him so important, managing editor, managing director of the news, that he was able to pick and choose which news that was gonna hit the air for them. He got so big that at one point, I believe Brokaw and the senior executive in charge of news said, "Stick to the facts, stick to the facts, Brian. You're varying too far into opinion." And that's where he got himself hurt.

PERINO: Do you -- you alluded to something earlier. Do you that think there's more left to come out?

GUTFELD: Alright, I --

PERINO: The New York magazine today, sort soft suggested that.

GUTFELD: I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, everybody always wants the other person's job. Actors always want to be musicians and musicians want to be painters. He wanted to be Letterman. Brian wanted to be Letterman, which meant that he wanted to tell stories. He was just too charming to do the news. He's doing -- you know, it's not just six months. I mean, that's he's -- that's $5 million or what -- what Geraldo pays for waxing. And I mean, that's what -- that he's gonna feel that. It's also really hard for anyone, I think at Fox just screw up like this, because there's so much hatred for us in the media already, that we will never be as comfortable as Brian Williams to actually tell these stories.

BECKEL: Yeah, I could -- and listen, the guy -- you think about this, he got managing editor. That started with Walter Cronkite, who demanded he be named managing editor. That was -- and that was a big deal and, that everybody -- I think everybody got it, right? Then Brokaw was a managing editor.

PERINO: Probably.

BECKEL: And so he did. He built himself up as the -- they built it as the guy on the pedestal. And who's gonna trust him?

GUTFELD: I'm managing editor of The Five.

BECKEL: Yes, we know.

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BECKEL: Think of all the accurate things --

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: And look how well that's going.

BOLLING: That's we're going through.

(LAUGHTER)

PERINO: I want to ask Kimberly, one last question about this idea of a mob mentality. Do you think that's just the times we're living in, the way technology works and you have lots of different people that are all communicating all at once and maybe things just feel sped up because of that.

GUILFOYLE: I think it makes things more complicated for sure. But, when you look at the in evidence this case, I don't think mob mentality has anything to do with it. There's a fact, and then there's -- you know, lies, that's the problem here. It was like a mistake. He knew what happened and he told a different story all together.

PERINO: Yeah.

GUTFELD: Charles Cook makes a good distinction. He said, like, when people go after you as a mob over an opinion or a joke, that's terrible. It's disgusting. But, if they're going after you for an actual -- what you say.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

GUTFELD: A factual discrepancy, that's different.

PERINO: You know, you know the best example of the mob mentality of the last year were the women, they came after the scientists was wearing the shirt that they thought was anti-feminine.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: A feminine?

GUTFELD: Yeah. That's --

PERINO: Never?

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BECKEL: What is that? Can we say --

PERINO: That was a mob mentality.

BECKEL: Can we say --

BOLLING: Misremembered.

BECKEL: Misremembered.

PERINO: You can just keep that in mind, Bob. That might help you out -- in the future.

GUILFOYLE: Bob does it --

BECKEL: There's shot right at the end. Boom!

PERINO: The media world other big news. The surprise announcement by Jon Stewart on his departure from Comedy Central, stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Those screams of anguish you hear right now are coming from the DNC, as their greatest mouthpiece ever is quitting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JON STEWART, THE DAILY SHOW HOST: 17 years is the longest I have ever in my life, held a job by -- 16 years and five mos.

(LAUGHTER)

STEWART: Thank you. The upshot there being, I am a terrible employee.

(LAUGHTER)

STEWART: But - but in my heart I know it is time for someone else to have that opportunity. I'm gonna have dinner.

(LAUGHTER)

STEWART: On a school night.

(LAUGHTER)

STEWART: With my family, who I have heard from multiple sources.

(LAUGHTER)

STEWART: Are lovely people.

(LAUGHTER)

STEWRAT: It's -- it's been an -- an absolute privilege. It's been the honor of my professional life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUFELD: Yes, the great Jon Stewart is leaving "The Daily Show," a big loss for this simpering left-wing media. For whenever someone made a progressive point, it was Jon who repeated it days later to mass adulation. But if success is a lesson for the right, for it reveals how humor trumps hysterics. Even if his jokes seem too easy, at times we made it so, his wit won converts. Granted, it's hard to find converts in the newsroom. Leftism is their oxygen. But Stewart used comedy to make a point, so he never had to express anger. That's way more persuasive than shrill bursts of shouting. And that's the problem with the right. Some of us yell the same point over and over again like an English speaker yelling the same phrase to some poor guy who doesn't know the language. We've got political Tourette's. And really, Jon's mortgages were paid for by people who kept repeating dumb stuff. Of course it helped that he shared the assumptions of his adoring media, taking on the left only, when it was safe. But the good news is the rise of a liberal media came as rejection of the boring traditional past. But now they've won, so the storyline split. The right is now the rebel. Which means it's time for a bunch of new Jon Stewarts to take aim at the old. Keep an eye out for them, because Comedy Central won't.

So, K.G., he had quite a run there, 17 years, and immensely successful, very talented, very charming, and he worked at it. But he had a little help because his -- his political beliefs matched most in the media.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, well, I think this is going to be the greatest episode of "Wife Swap" ever. We're going to switch out, like, Rosie O'Donnell with Jon Stewart and Brian Williams. There are three key players right now. And it's your guess as to where they should go.

But, look, I think he's very funny. O'Reilly seems to like him so he's...

PERINO: Well, then.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I mean...

BECKEL: ... follow right down the road and do it.

GUILFOYLE: Leave it right there. I don't know why he's leaving. I mean, if it's real, because everyone always says family or spend more time like Rosie said, is that the truth?

GUTFELD: Kimberly, that's a long time.

GUILFOYLE: But he's still very good. His ratings are still good. So I'm curious, why not hit 20?

BOLLING: He's going to do exactly what he wants to do, make a hell of a lot -- he makes $25 million a year plus the other stuff on the side. Twenty five from Comedy Central. He's going to make multiples of that going forward, whatever he decides to do.

Can I just point out what he does? Yes, he's funny; he's witty. He has the backing of the adoring left and all that, but one of the things that he does -- and not I'm sure if people really understand -- most of the stuff that he does on that show, he attacks people who are on air live. When they say something, he'll take the sound bite. He'll go in the back, and they will say, "Let's research this. Let's see what we can find" when someone said something that was opposite of that, that they said right there, and they'll literally have a team of people tearing apart live sound, people for making...

GUILFOYLE: You know that's happened in media (ph), right?

PERINO: You've been on there.

BOLLING: But it's fish in a barrel.

Jon, try and do your show live one time, my man. Let's -- then let's see what kind of comedic genius you are.

Look, he sits down, he's funny with Bill. I get it; he's got a wit. But the stuff that people really tune into Jon Stewart for...

GUILFOYLE: You're going to make it again.

BOLLING: I'm not trying to make it. I'm simply saying the difference between sitting here live and measuring every word out of your mouth and being able to spend, you know, 30 people spending four hours cutting a sound bite and writing jokes around it, it's a vastly different animal.

GUTFELD: I get your point. He's not -- he is not live, but the fact is, if he's shooting fish in the barrel, we don't always have to provide the fish.

BOLLING: That's true.

GUTFELD: And we provide a lot of fish.

BOLLING: Hell yes.

GUTFELD: I think -- Bob, I was talking about this before. I think that you should always learn from people that you're up against, and I think that, you know, learning from him is about -- is how he rarely gets angry about the things he doesn't like. I always think that's important. Right?

BECKEL: Listen, he's an engaging guy who -- Eric is exactly right. This is a guy who gets a lot of practice, right? Lot of rehearsals before your show goes on. And he is...

GUILFOYLE: Who cares?

BECKEL: Yes, that's right. Who does care?

GUILFOYLE: Who cares? We've all done live shows. We've all done taped shows. He's either good or he isn't, I think.

BECKEL: The best I've seen Jon Stewart was the smallest amount of time he had to say anything, was the day that what's her name did -- Samantha Bee did you two guys. And Stewart had -- talk about comedic timing -- he sat back there and went...

GUILFOYLE: But he also does -- there you are, Bolling.

BOLLING: Oh, yes.

GUILFOYLE: There you are, Greg.

He also does all the live shows he does with O'Reilly. They do live, like, stand-up kind of things, and they tour around.

PERINO: I think he's probably just as fine live as he is on tape.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

PERINO: Can I mention something that people don't talk a lot about that he did and his show really did have an impact around the world?

So a lot of people in repressive regimes, young people, they were able to see the "Daily Show" online, sometimes under -- under disguise, right, because their government didn't want to let them do that. They started copying Jon Stewart's show in their countries. And satire works really well, in particular in Iran.

And when they had -- at the Broadcasting Board of Governors, Voice of America, they worked with these two young guys from Iran who had come to America, but they were beaming back a satire show like "The Daily Show" back to Tehran, and it was getting a lot of attention. And that actually is a contribution to the craft that he doesn't get enough credit for.

BOLLING: Can I through one quick thing out there?

GUTFELD: Sure.

BOLLING: If you can, just go on the Internet, check out Jon's first show. He does a bit with Stephen Colbert, who's allegedly in Washington. It's hysterical, and that's the Stephen Colbert that ended up -- who's going to take over for Letterman. The guy did -- he was like a farm league manager, bringing up some of the best talent. Colbert, Steve Carrell, John Oliver.

BECKEL: They're taking the hit, aren't they in a month, right? In a period of a month they lose some pretty big stars.

GUTFELD: I want to throw to this tweet. This is from Karen Tumulty?

PERINO: Tumulty.

GUTFELD: From The Washington Post. She said, "For people under 30, Jon Stewart leaving 'The Daily Show' is the equity of the Beatles breaking up." That might be the most hilarious thing I've ever heard. I saw that in The Weekly Standard. The average age of "The Daily Show" watcher is 41. Only 20 years younger than our average age.

But anyway, ahead, the widow of American Sniper Chris Kyle takes the stand on day one of the trial for her husband's accused killer. Details on her testimony coming up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: The American Sniper murder trial got under way today with dramatic and emotional testimony from the widow of Chris Kyle. Taya Kyle broke down on the stand earlier while talking about the last time she heard from her husband. She said she could tell something wasn't right when he called her from the shooting range where he was killed.

Chris Kyle and fellow veteran Chad Littlefield were murdered in 2013 while helping another vet. That man is 27-year-old Eddie Ray Routh. He's pleaded not guilty to capital murder.

In opening statements today, the defense tried to convince the jury Routh was, quote, "in the grip of a psychosis" at the time of the crimes. The prosecution argue Routh knew right from wrong, even with a history of mental illness.

So this is bringing to the forefront an issue that we discussed on the show yesterday about mental illness, what should be done, are we taking care of it in the right way, because a lot of times we tend to criminalize, penalize, and institutionalize in, you know, a prison system, but without people getting the help they need.

Now, juxtapose this situation, where this was someone that there wasn't a history of mental illness. He -- his claim as to why he should be able to not, you know, do time for this offense is that he was suffering from posttraumatic stress disorder.

But the facts are that he was on an Air Force base in Iraq, the largest one, saw no combat time, you know, or action while he was in country. And there was no documented history prior to that, except for the comments that his mother made attributing it and then reaching out to Kyle to say he was having a hard time -- Dana.

PERINO: Well, it will be an interesting case to watch for multiple reasons. People have been captivated, and rightly so, by the Chris Kyle story. And Taya is a compelling figure. And your heart breaks for her. And she's having to relive this in the courtroom, and she does seek justice.

I also think that from the mental health standpoint, as we continue to do -- as our country does a lot more investigation and research into posttraumatic stress, what causes it and how to help heal that, perhaps this testimony will lead us to more answers there. But as I read it from a layman's perspective, I would say that his defense is very weak.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I would agree with you.

Eric, so the issue is going to be did he know what he was doing, the difference between right and wrong, because you can have some mental illness issues. It's not just like a blanket get out of jail free. You have to know, did you know what he did was wrong. And even the statements that he made directly in the aftermath of this incident, because he did confess to it and made some specific statements, showed that he, in fact, knew what he was doing and chose to do it anyway.

BOLLING: Right. And the way I understand it some 10 percent or 15 percent of people who claim insanity as their defense are successful. So the vast majority of them won't be able to...

GUILFOYLE: They'll fail.

BOLLING: They'll fail and they'll be convicted.

Can I just point out that Chris Kyle was shot in the back when he was trying to help another serviceperson?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, terrible.

BOLLING: And all these people who attack Chris Kyle for doing this job maybe didn't watch the movie "American Sniper" to the end, where they outlined what he was doing. He was trying to help returning service people who had PTSD, and trying to help them work through some of their issues. And so the attack on the guy, I feel, is unwarranted.

Watch some of the trial and watch the family. Watch the, you know, the emotion that surrounds this guy. He was a hero.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, and I met him when he was here, very nice guy. I mean, it's just sad that people would disparage someone like this, especially somebody who's trying to give back, oh, he wrote a book about it. Yes, because a bunch of other people were going to write a book about his life, which then, because he was reluctant to even do the book, Taya said. But he decided to do it anyway to put the story out there. And it certainly doesn't glamorize him. He tells the raw truth.

BECKEL: You know, one of the things -- you know, it sort of reminds me of that line we used to use, "going postal." Remember when all those postal people began to bring weapons into the post office and they said going postal? And it was funny at first, but it didn't turn out to be very funny because for some reason, there was a whole string of these things.

Now, how many of these things have we seen in the last ten years? To say that there's not some underlying problem here is...

GUILFOYLE: But it can't be bandied about. It has to be real. Because people can then say, "Oh, I had PTSD." But there must be -- it's a very serious thing to have going on. And there's people that really suffer from it. So you have to make sure. There has to be a basis in fact. You cannot just use that.

BECKEL: Is there worse of others -- is there violent posttraumatic and...

BECKEL: Bob, 22 military people a day commit suicide.

BECKEL: I know. That's why I'm asking. I don't know.

BOLLING: Twenty-two a day. Insane. That's crazy.

GUILFOYLE: Anyway, there was nothing in his records to say that there was a traumatic incident or something specific to attribute it to, but that's what this trial is about.

GUTFELD: Yes. One thing about that. He was put into a psych ward for a few days and then released. And I don't know if that was PTSD ...

GUILFOYLE: Or mental illness.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

GUILFOYLE: Separate from it, yes.

GUTFELD: But what always -- I always feel really bad. Chad Littlefield was the other -- was the other man who was killed. When you die with somebody who's more famous, you get forgotten. Farrah Fawcett died the same day that Michael Jackson died, and I think we need to be reminded of that, that Chris Kyle was killed but so was Chad Littlefield; and we don't hear the name Chad Littlefield enough.

GUILFOYLE: Good point. I'm glad you brought that up, because his -- you know, people haven't been talking about him, but, guess what? It matters to his family and his loved ones.

GUTFELD: Right. Exactly.

GUILFOYLE: Again, another man who was trying to, you know, help a fellow veteran. My guess is that this young man had some mental illness issues that might have even preceded his time in the service.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

GUILFOYLE: And certainly were manifesting at the time of this incident. But, again, has to meet the legal definition.

BECKEL: Wonder what would happen if we were all on a helicopter and - - oh, never mind.

GUILFOYLE: I knew I should have just hit the tease.

Coming up, he warned us he's got a pen. So is President Obama about to use it to veto the Keystone Pipeline bill now headed to his desk? We're going to chat next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: President Obama said he'll veto the bill approving the Keystone Pipeline if it made it to his desk. Now he'll have a chance. Moments ago, the House passed he legislation. The Senate already signed off on it. I'll offer my advice to the president, but first here's Speaker Boehner earlier.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN BOEHNER (R-OH), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: Even our president's own State Department will say that this creates 42,000 new jobs, but instead of listening to the people, the president is standing with a bunch of left-fringe extremists and anarchists. The president needs to listen to the American people and say, yes, let's build the Keystone Pipeline!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Oh, Dana.

BECKEL: He does look tan, doesn't he? Now Eric...

GUILFOYLE: Bolling is just so jealous. Trying to blush to make his face darker.

BECKEL: Place where -- notice I'm trying to filibuster -- filibuster on the Keystone. Now what advice would you offer the president?

PERINO: We don't get -- we don't get the benefit of your advice first?

GUILFOYLE: I thought you were going to give your advice. That was the whole tease.

BECKEL: I'll give my advice. My advice would be simply this. And very politically. If you think you might get overridden...

PERINO: Sign it.

BECKEL: ... sign it.

PERINO: I agree.

BOLLING: Yes, they're getting close.

BECKEL: I mean, that's -- first thing you know, if you're going to get into a veto run here, you don't want your first one to get knocked down.

GUILFOYLE: And then what do you say? You know, sign it? OK, what? What does his press statement say?

BOLLING: You make a deal. You cut a deal, "I'll sign this for you but we want -- whatever." Minimum wage, whatever the other piece is.

BECKEL: Sign it. Sign it and go hit the golf course.

GUILFOYLE: What does he tell the American people why he signed it?

BECKEL: Well, I would say, "You know, I've been thinking about this a lot. And everybody has a conversion somewhere. And about the 17th hole it occurred to me, we need another pipeline."

GUTFELD: Hole is right.

BECKEL: In other words, it's a tough one to sell, man. I mean, what are you going to say? You going to say basically -- everybody else is going to say it for you. You did it for political reasons. Well, so what? You had a lot of Democrats who went along with him. That's the only thing I can think of.

Dana, you got any better than that?

PERINO: No, I think that you're right. I would have signed it. But I don't think he's going to, and I don't think that he cares what anybody thinks.

BECKEL: That's a good point. Well, you know, that's actually...

GUILFOYLE: Muy interesante.

BECKEL: Let me think about that for a second. He doesn't have to worry about reelection. So he doesn't have to...

GUILFOYLE: Can you put a thought bubble above Bob's head?

BECKEL: Greg, how about you, man? Come on, bail me out.

GUTFELD: Here is my theory, that if you are against the pipeline and prefer to have fuel travel by train, then you must stop using indoor plumbing, because after all, that's a pipeline that carries incredibly hazardous waste. And just because you're intimately involved in the transportation of that, you don't want to give that up.

So it's hypocritical to have an indoor toilet and be against the Keystone Pipeline. Literally, you should be full of poop.

GUTFELD: That's why you gave up yours.

BECKEL: Let's get to the numbers (ph). What are the numbers, Eric?

BOLLING: Two-seventy voted in favor; 29 Dems voted in favor. One Republican voted against. All you need -- if President Obama vetoes it, it comes back to the House. And you would need these numbers: 280. You have to put 10. Maybe you get the one Republican; maybe you get nine more Democrats.

Or if Democrats don't want to put their name on a presidential veto they can stay out of the process, and then you can veto it. Override the veto.

PERINO: You would be a good whip. You would be a whip.

GUILFOYLE: He would.

GUTFELD: I have a good whip.

GUILFOYLE: He would totally -- he would have the board with the numbers. All you need is love and a little bit of pipeline.

BECKEL: Let me ask you this. Do we have any time? It's my segment. No.

GUILFOYLE: Can someone talk to Bob?

GUTFELD: See that? I think they left to go get a drink.

PERINO: I can't hear anything.

BECKEL: "One More Thing" is up next.

GUILFOYLE: I don't hear anything. Do you?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: All right. Time for "One More Thing." And K.G. kicks it off.

GUILFOYLE: All right. A couple of things. We just were talking about the movie "American Sniper." Just want to let everybody know at home just keeping the families of Chad Littlefield and Chris Kyle in their hearts and prayers. And it is also the birthday today of Chad Littlefield, who would have been 38 years of age. Just want to take that note.

And on another note, very positive: Angelina Jolie opening at the London School of Economics a center that's specifically going to focus on women, peace and security. And she said Tuesday there is no stable future for a world in which crimes committed against women go unpunished. And she, as you recall, is also a U.N. special envoy and cofounded a campaign on preventing sexual violence with former British foreign secretary William Hague in 2012. I like what she does.

BOLLING: All right, Greg. You're up.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: I hate these people!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: As we -- gee whiz. As we continue to build robots and refine them, we have to start asking ourselves about their rights, and is it possible, in fact, to start abusing robots? I hate people who bully robots.

As you can see in this tape, this is the new Google bot. And he's just going down, doing his job at work, at work, minding his own business. Look at this. What kind -- I mean, you want the robots to act up? Look at this. People are kicking robots. This is disgusting to me. Look at this one. He's so terrified he's gone into the woods to hide, because humanity has treated him so poorly. Do you think the robots are going to put up with this for long? Have you seen "The Terminator"? This is the beginning, America. You mess with the robots it's over.

BOLLING: Yes, where's PETA when...

GUTFELD: Yes. RETA. Robots.

GUILFOYLE: That was kind of mean, don't you think?

GUTFELD: For the ethical treatment.

GUILFOYLE: That was mean.

BOLLING: Yes.

BECKEL: It was kind of mean.

BOLLING: TERA (ph)?

GUTFELD: No, PETA -- Ethical Treatment of Robots. PETR.

BOLLING: OK. All right. Anyway, so today is the -- tonight is the drawing for Powerball $500 million, half a billion dollars. But it turns out that there are a lot of people who don't always do so well after they win a lottery there. We have Michael Carroll, who won $15 million, now became broke. After that he's going back to his garbage man job. And Amerigo Lopez, who won $38 million and decided -- basically, what it is is an office pool. And he kept the tickets and took off, but they found him. And he's broke now.

But I won't do that. I bought tickets for us. And if we win half a billion dollars...

PERINO: Us?

BOLLING: Us, for "The Five."

GUILFOYLE: Hey, photograph those. Photograph the numbers.

BOLLING: All right. They want me to hurry up. Bob, you're up.

BECKEL: OK. It was 25 years ago on this date that Nelson Mandela was released from prison. And four years after that he became president. And President F.W. de Klerk released him.

He was probably, of all the leaders of the African-American movement - - he came here and he impacted from South Africa. He's done -- amazing man. A hardly (ph) wonderful, wonderful man. I can't say enough. I love you, Nelson. Sleep well.

BOLLING: All right. Very good. Dana, you're up.

PERINO: OK. Well, we talked a little bit today about two big changes in media. We had Brian Williams in "Nightly News" and Jon Stewart of "the Daily Show" both leaving. And FiveFanPhotoshop made a suggestion for who could possibly replace him. Who better than America's dog, Jasper...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

PERINO: ... for Brian Williams? And also, you know, not to be -- he can probably do two jobs.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God!

GUTFELD: All right. FiveFanPhotoshop, you're done.

GUILFOYLE: Did you -- did you put him at "The View," too? Jasper at "The View."

GUTFELD: No longer.

PERINO: Sure, Jasper at "The View."

GUILFOYLE: We need one more. We need three seats filled.

BOLLING: That's it for us. Set your DVRs. You never want to miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

GUILFOYLE: Once again...

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