OTR Interviews

US, dogged by Bergdahl deal, stands by as Jordan agrees to prisoner swap with ISIS: 'This is America withdrawing from the world'

Jordan has agreed to make a prisoner swap with ISIS, but could the deal fall through? Did the US set a dangerpus precedent with the Bowe Bergdahl prisoner swap deal?

 

This is a rush transcript from "On the Record," January 28, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: This is a FOX News alert. Time is running out for two hostages held by ISIS. And now Jordan offering to do a very controversial prisoner swap with the terrorists to save their Jordanian air force pilot.

Jordan is offering to release a convicted terrorist, a woman who killed nearly 60 people in coordinated bombings on hotels in Jordan in 2005. At this hour, there is no word on the fate of the Jordanian pilot, nor is there any word about the fate of the Japanese journalist also being held by ISIS and also facing the threat of beheading if the female terrorist is not released within 24 hours. So will the terrorist swap happen and, if so, will it set a dangerous precedent?

Congressman and U.S. Air Force veteran, Adam Kinzinger, joins us. Good evening, sir.

REP. ADAM KINZINGER, R-ILL.: Good evening.

VAN SUSTEREN: Very controversial offering to swap. Your thoughts?

KINZINGER: Look, you have to have sympathy for the Jordanian people. They watched for a month their pilot on television paraded around, this hero. So you understand that. This sets a very bad precedent. Look at the fact that, why does ISIS want this to happen in the first place? Do they really want this so-called lady al Qaeda out? Maybe. But at the end of the day, they wanted a victory. That will be a huge victory for them if they are able to get Jordan to, in essence, show up on their knees, release a prisoner who as been convicted through a legal court system to get their pilot back. It's as much as a moral victory for ISIS than anything.

(CROSSTALK)

VAN SUSTEREN: There she is, by the way. That's the killers.

KINZINGER: Yeah. Yeah.

VAN SUSTEREN: One of the killers killed 56-60 people. Vicious woman.

KINZINGER: She forgot a critical part of her suicide belt. She intended to blow herself up in crowded market. It was a very bad precedent it was a precedent we set up as well with the Bergdahl swap, that we were willing to negotiate with terror. And so it puts us in a bad position.

VAN SUSTEREN: Of course, we will talk about later, but President Obama, at least the White House won't call the Taliban, who makes it a career to blow up people in markets and set IEDs, as terrorists. That's a whole other story.

KINZINGER: That's shocking. But this is, again, what we have seen as the need to destroy ISIS because every day that goes by -- and I think this is going to it be a multiyear process, especially with the president saying we will never use ground troops in this case. You will see these hostage situations and these desires for swaps and these #100 or $200 million ransom, and more beheadings. We will see this forever. This is their M.O. and they want this as a moral victory --

(CROSSTALK)

VAN SUSTEREN: Of course, my heart bleeds for the families.

KINZINGER: Of course.

VAN SUSTEREN: Also four the people of Jordan who have struggling with this. This makes it extremely unsafe for Americans traveling. Because it puts -- it sets a precedent.

But are you convinced that the Jordanian pilot is even alive? Catherine Herridge does lots of reports on our network. I have talked to her and she offensive times thinks that the beheadings are done and then they go out and polish up their video and do their editing and they can be dead for weeks before we see the video.

KINZINGER: It's possible. We obviously, hope not. I have heard that theory on the two Japanese prisoners as well, too. Think about the moral victory, unfortunately, maybe if this pilot has already been murdered. We hope he hasn't been. And then Jordan offers to make a swap and find out he was murdered anyway.

Again, the thing ISIS is seeking here is a major moral victory. A moral victory to them will help them recruit. They will have brought down this infidel regime in Jordan. It's a very dangerous situation. It's going to lead to further kidnappings and further danger. That's why we don't negotiate with terrorists. We can't do it.

VAN SUSTEREN: I wish our nation, our president would show -- I hate to use the word leadership because it's so insulting. This might be a time to bring Japan in into to fighting ISIS. And, you know, if he had gone to Paris and been there with Angela Merkel and other world leaders, I mean, this is really a world problem. And, you know, ISIS is doing it left, right, and center.

KINZINGER: It appears that he is trying to manage the problem of ISIS. I really believe he is trying to just manage this until he is out of office and allow the next president to probably finally defeat ISIS. It really appears that we are in a unilateral withdrawal right now from the world. He is desperate for Afghanistan to be over in his tenure. He was desperate to leave Iraq and not sign a Status of Forces Agreement. Only put like 5,000 troops on the table, and they needed significantly more than that. It's a very dangerous and sad thing. And the problem is the next president is going to come in, whether it's Democrat or Republican, and have a huge job to do and --

(CROSSTALK)

VAN SUSTEREN: Look, I mean, you can't stop these killers and they are evil. The thought is that if we moved a little bit faster, maybe we could get to a victory a little bit sooner and we wouldn't be talking about all these beheadings.

KINZINGER: That's right.

VAN SUSTEREN: The cancer grows, the more that we sort of slow walk this.

KINZINGER: And the more success they have. You are seeing these different jihadist groups now joining the ISIS umbrella, what used to be a fractured movement. Al Qaeda competed with ISIS. Boko Haram competed. They all wanted the title. They are coming under this big umbrella and it's because ISIS is showing so much success.

VAN SUSTEREN: You mentioned Boko Haram. 270 girls kidnapped from a school. They have been raped and sold to men and everything else. For a while, the world for sent out hash tags and everyone was concerned, bring our girls home, and now it's like, what girls? The world has looked the other way and moved on.

KINZINGER: It's terrible. It's terrible

VAN SUSTEREN: Congressman, nice to see you, sir.

KINZINGER: Thank you. Great being here.