Charlie Hebdo returns with defiant cover

French satirical magazine's first issue since terror attack depicts Muslim prophet Muhammad


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," January 13, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Tomorrow marks one week since Islamic terrorists stormed the offices of Charlie Hebdo in Paris. And instead of cowering to the jihadist, who tries to silence them, the newspaper is coming out with a brand new issue and this is the cover. It shows the Muslim prophet Muhammad weeping with the sign that says, Je Suis Charlie, and the words all is forgiven above him in French. Here's more from the cartoonist who drew that cover image.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) RENALD LUZIER, CHARLIE HEBDO CARTOONIST (THROUGH TRANSLATOR): I thought we have to have a drawing that was made to make us laugh. We didn't want to have a drawing that was going to deal with the emotions of the victims of. It wasn't the front page of the one (inaudible) done. But it was in a front page that we wanted and it wasn't the one that terrorists would have wanted.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: Brave move, courageous, Dana?

DANA PERINO, THE FIVE SHOWE CO-HOST: I don't know if it's courageous or not. I -- but I like -- I like it that they are continuing -- continue their tradition of doing what they wanna do. They don't care what anybody else thinks. When I first saw it, I don't understand it. But, I guess you can look at it at several different ways and I think Greg's got a great take on it, which I should probably let him say what that take is. And it helps me understand it better.

GUILFOYLE: Are you calling on Greg?

PERINO: I guess I am.


GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Well, OK. The first mistake is that is not Muhammad that's Geraldo. And I have no idea why they did it he is on the premise (ph) and perhaps are trying to do a dual promotion. When -- when Bernard -- (inaudible) is how you said it, he was the cartoonist, said that we vomit all over our new friends. This is actually the metaphorical vomit. They're -- in my opinion they're mocking the symbolic gestures that, that make you feel good but do nothing, so you have Muhammad holding up a sign saying you know we're sorry. Which is basically what everybody is doing right now in the streets of Paris, but where were these people before? None of these people knew who Theo van Gogh was, who was stabbed with a flag in his chest by radical Muslim. They don't know who Hirsi Ali is. And right now, you've got people like Vox and media matters cataloging Islamophobia, accusing people who are critical of Islam. So what they're doing, I think they're doing is, they're making fun of the in effectualness and -- the inability and the incompetence of people who are coming out right now against this and saying, what is that for? You have to fight this thing. You don't walk out and hold hands.

GUILFOYLE: All right.


GUILFOYLE: Sounds good. They can be multiple choice a.

GUTFELD: Yeah, and it's Geraldo.

GUILFOYLE: It's Geraldo.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Except if his shirt was on.


BOLLING: If the shirt was on.

GUTFELD: That's true.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: That would have been offensive if that was.


BOLLING: That would have been far too many people.


BOLLING: OK. So, Charlie is gonna print 3 million copies, probably sell out 3 million copies of this. So, the point is that the terrorists lost. This is exact what they didn't want. They didn't want three copies of this it let alone 3 million, so they will -- they will be disseminated and that picture will be seen by millions of people. Also, Bob mentioned something yesterday. It matters not what they say -- who lost arms, it matters what they do. We should also point out that France today re-up their air strikes on ISIS which is a positive move. So, all of the rhetoric and all the talk and everything that's going on, all the ceremony are being backed up with air strikes and that is a good thing.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, that is a great point Bob. You made yesterday people seem to like it.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: I think the French -- well, also the French President said Islamic terrorist in his speech, because of first time he has done that is great. You know, I don't really mind that these people did that and not yet backed up what they said with actions. Two major things have happened in this fight against Islamic terrorist. One was when they started chopping heads off, when ISIS did that. And that became public and that sort of opened up the flood gates. This, I think opened up the flood gates that much more and now you are starting to see more and more Muslims coming forward which is, really what you need here. So I think in some ways, this may be a great contribution when we look back in our history of beginning to the end of people like ISIS.

GUTFEDL: But don't you wish that this would have been unnecessary wouldn't 9/11.

GUILFOYLE: That's the point.

GUTFELD: Been enough or the other attacks that happened in -- 2005 and later, would have been enough to get people to see that there is an issue? First, I mean.

BECKEL: You can say, I mean, you said about anything, I suppose right? I mean, you go back to 1995, the first time that.


BECKEL: They bombed the World Trade Center.

GUTFELD: But that.


BECKEL: `93?

GUTFELD: My point is that I'm not actually angry at radical Islam. Because this is what they do, it's like getting angry at an earthquake or rattlesnake. What I'm angry at, what's worthy of scorn, are the people that have ignored this for so long. The Islamophobia phobes, (ph) the writers and the editors and the talking heads who deny an existence of evil while blaming those who speak up, like you Bob, as bigoted. There no difference - - different than the apologists for communism. As communism killed millions, they, they denied it. So it's not -- when I look at radical Islam I go -- that's what they do, we just kill them.

BOLLING: I think they stepped it up today though. Did you see this afternoon? The picture of the kid -- or the video of the kid, the young jihadist -- executing two ways -- he called -- what they call Russian Spies. There's a picture -- actually, there's actually a video that you can see where this kid opens up, he kills the one and he kills the second one with multiple gunshots to the back of the head. It's -- once they start with the children, I don't know who they're appealing to. I don't know how normal people around the world whether they are Muslims -- Islamic sympathizer or radical sympathizer which the numbers are amazing -- how many they are. At some point you say, that's it. You've crossed the line. Beheading journalist? Maybe they still believe it. But once you bring a kid in to do this -- have they, have they --

GUILFOYLE: Well, they're monsters.

BOLLING: Of course. All also show.

GUILFOYLE: But what it's gonna take?

BOLLING: They violated.

PERINO: Remember in Nigeria last week when the 2,000 people are murdered.

GUILFOYLE: In Boko Haram.

PERINO: And that was Muslim -- Islamic terrorism. They actually used 10- year-old little girls.


PERINO: And so, it's both meant to shock our conscience and to make us scared and then also, it allows and -- you know, who is gonna suspect a 10- year-old girl to come in and actually, have the bomb strap on.

GUILFOYLE: Because they want you to know that the face and the evil of jihad is everywhere.

BOLLING: But you know in prison, you know there's -- this pretty well documented that in prison the people who come to prison who are child abusers, molesters, killers are -- pretty much beaten senseless once they get to prison. So there's -- there is like code of ethics within the prison. Why is there not a code of ethics within extremist community? OK, we're extremists but, you know what? You've -- that's it we're done.

GUILFOYLE: Well, there is. That's call -- it`s Al-Qaeda versus ISIS, believe it or not.

GUTFELD: I mean -- the first mistake is trying to explain morality to a terrorist.


GUTFELD: Like trying to teach a rock to drive. It is impossible. I'm curious is where the heck is Cat Stevens? I mean, the man who applauded a death sentence on Salman Rushdie, only to be rewarded by John Stewart.


GUTFELD: To be on -- on the rally to end sanity, where is he? What is he saying? Has anybody asked him how he feels about this?

PERINO: I think he has a new album coming out.

GUTFELD: Really?

GUILFOYLE: Why don't you write message him on Twitter?

BECKEL: The thing you said about evil is just important here. Their reaction to this is to up the ante.


BECKEL: When this exactly the opposite thing they should be doing is right about now if you really playing this game smart, you would probably go underground a little bit, but no. Their idea is to up the ante -- I think it's gonna scare people more. Every time they do this they scare more people into getting out of the closet.

PERINO: Well, however, I mean, we're gonna talk about this in your blog, later Bob, which is the concern that there are a lot of sleeper cells around there. They are being told to activate, and there are millions upon millions, an infinite number of soft targets that they can attack and we can't protect all of them. The most important thing we can do is survey an Intel.

BECKEL: Let's have an add-on (ph) I mean, let's have it. I mean, if we are gonna do it and a lot of people are gonna die along the way. But let's have it out, if they weren't come up the ante, let's up the ante with them.

GUILFOYLE: All right, Colonel Peters.

BECKEL; Well, no, it's not that.


BECKEL: This show is already been -- it got its -- its mark has already been made and I.

GUILFOYLE: You're the original one. I want talk about this, because we're all seeing.

GUTFELD: How -- how shameful.

GUILFOYLE: Some of rhetoric change.

GUTFELD: How shameful must you be I mean, to work in something like Vox, which is run by -- I can't remember that little squirt.

PERINO: Ezra Klein.

GUTFELD: Ezra Klein who catalog things like this, when people express outrage over what's happening, instead of cataloging the horror they catalog what you say. What a pathetic little wusses they are.

PERINO: Well, also saying that they stand with Charlie.

GUTFELD: Yeah, exactly.

PERINO: I mean.

GUTFELD: They've never stood with it.

BOLLING: Well, New York Times also.


BOLLING: I mean, New York Times say it was, reaction to extremism.


BOLLING: Charlie was a reaction to extremism, really?

GUILFOYLE: Right. All right, so, here's the deal. Some people are standing up. We are seeing reaction that Bob has been talking about and calling for, for a long time because the mayor of Rotterdam who is Muslim is saying, you know, you're not gonna tolerate -- even to tolerate this, you're not with us. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) AHMED ABOUTALEB, MAYOR OF ROTTERDAM (SPEAKING IN DUTCH): It is incomprehensible how someone can turn against freedom like this, but if you can't stomach that freedom, then for heaven's sake, pack your bags and leave. And if you can't accept humorists who create a newspaper, then I would like to say (beep).


GUILFOYLE: Oh, related to Bob Beckel. PERINO: It's like being on The Five.

GUILFOYLE: For a second there, that was weird.


GUILFOYLE: Uncanny resemblance. For those of you who didn't see the subtitles, he saying is, it is incomprehensible how someone can turn against freedom like this, but if you can't stomach that freedom, then for heaven's sake, pack your bags and leave.

BECKEL: Get it out.

GUILFOYLE: Exactly. You like this Bob?

BECKEL: I do. I like it a lot.

PERINO: I like you complete yourself.

BECKEL: I did, I bleeped myself. But, I think it's -- but, this is -- you got applaud these things. I mean, too little too late maybe, but at least it is starting to happen now. I think it's gonna have a contagious effect another dream (ph) because it goes back to city (ph) when that Egyptian President gave that speech, it finally said you are losing your religion.

BOLLING: There's one leader who hasn't really stepped up -- stepped up the rhetoric and made the kind of warnings that Egyptian President did and this Moroccan-born Rotterdam mayor.

BECKEL: Let me guess, who you gonna say.

BOLLING: Yup. Yup, the one who with the world leader, the one.

GUILFOYLE: The world leader.

BOLLING: The one who really should be the one saying, if you can't stand freedom, if you're not willing to fight for your freedom or then get a lot. (ph)

BECKEL: Also the leaders who is dropping bombs on them.

BOLLING: There are a lot of them are, Bob. Your -- your figures would.

PERINO: Yeah. I mean, Bob. I actually.

BOLLING: Slightly wrong for this.

PERINO: I wasn't here yesterday, but when -- yes.


PERINO: So I heard about yesterday and --

GUILFOYLE: See what happens?

PERINO: Two months ago.

GUILFOYLE: When you're not hear Dana.

PERINO: President Obama deserves credit for building what you call the largest coalition to fight terror.

BECKEL: Of terror -- of Muslims.

BOLLING: No, no. And, and not.

PERINO: No, no. I mean.

BOLLING: No, Arab or not. (ph)


BOLLING: There the U.K. I'll read.

PERINO: We have -- we have the whole list

BOLLING: I'm sorry, U.K, Australia, France. Germany hasn't done air power but the rest have Canada and the Netherlands.

BECKEL: They are in the air bombing?





BECKEL: And I stand corrected.

GUILFOYLE: This is the thing, people have joined. We asked them to join in and they did.


GUILFOYLE: They asked us to link arms and we didn't.

PERINO: But however, the other problem is that they don't -- we need all of those governments and many of them are a part of NATO to fund their militaries to a greater extent so that they can help us in this effort.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, because it broke alliances is not sexy, right?


GUILFOYLE: You didn't know that. We need some financial support.

PERINO: That could be the new version of party list. (ph)


GUTFELD: The -- can I just add to this.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. Rotterdam?

GUTFELD: Rotterdam Mayor was basically talking about addressing the criticism that some countries don't do enough to assimilate.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: Certain types of people. If the immigrant is responsible for assimilation of the country, and some of these people are in fact are born there. But if you find it unwelcoming to your own barbaric notions of equality, that is not on the country, that is on you. If you leave a horrible place, please leave your horrible practices behind. This acting is a lot of these people committing these things, haven't come from anywhere, they were born there which means, it is time for this moderate Muslim march to take place. And I wish that care would actually find a moral compass there in the United States and stand up instead of writing press releases from behind the laptop. Actually go outside and do something, care would -- rather than being cowards, would actually do something helpful.

BECKEL: You know the numbers of applications to go to Western Europe from Muslim countries are way up. Now, if they don't like the western culture, why come?


BECKEL: Why not just stay home?

GUILFOYLE: No, but the.

PERINO: You know the truth of why because, they have opportunity.

BECKEL: Right.

PERINO: And freedom and that's about --

BECKEL: And, and the.

PERINO: They want to get jobs.

GUILFOYLE: But what about -- but don't abuse it and how about assimilate. Try to the get along with other people and co exists in peace and under lawful land, the law of this country.

PERINO: I don't think it is government's responsibility to assimilates. Society can help --

GUILFOYLE: They don't.

PERINO: As well.

GUILFOYLE: They don't help by taking.

GUTFELD: Assimilation is fun.

GUILFOYLE: No go sections of the city and they work on (inaudible) law and the police don't go in there. That is not helping anything. That creates a situation like France, unfortunately.

BOLLING: And you don't have to abandon your culture to assimilate.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. That's right.

BOLLING: You can still do the things you love to do. GUILFOYLE: But you can have to -- right.

BOLLING: And -- in your culture, the foods, the dress, the music.


BOLLING: You can just get along.

GUILFOYLE: Do you have of.

GUTFELD: But you can say what that's stuff.

GUILFOYLE: Under the same system of laws.

GUTFELD: Assimilate -- you can't spell assimilate without Islam.

GUILFOYLE: Oh no. Now, it just got weird, weird. Next.

GUTFELD: It (inaudible) point.

GUILFOYLE: It appears the Obama administration has a banned phrase, Islamic extremism. Fox News asked the state department why, stay tuned for the answer.


GUTFELD: Last night the State Department Marie Harf was asked about Muslim extremism. I wonder if she found it not hard to say, but not the only kind of extremism we face.


MARIE HARF, STATE DEPARTMENT DEPUTY SPOKESPERSON: Well, it's not hard to say but it is not the only kind of extremism we face. We're gonna focus on all the different kinds of extremism with a heavy focus on people who do this in the name of Islam. We would say, falsely in the name of Islam. But there are other forms of extremism that are also important.

MARTHA MACCALLUM, NEWS ANCHOR ON FOX NEWS: Tell me, what other forms of extremism are particularly troubling and compelling to you right now?

HARF: Well, look, there are people out there who want to kill other people in the name of a variety of causes.



GUTFELD: So true. Besides ISIS and Al-Qaeda there's Hamas, Hezbollah, the Taliban, all knows were upfront, (ph) Boko Haram, no common thread there -- well, except for the goat sex.

PERINO: Oh my God.

GUTFELD: Speaking of Boko Haram. Remember the, bring back our girls hash tag? Condemning them for kidnapping those 200 girls, that worked. Since then they killed thousands, many of them are children. At birthday parties, they blow up the kids, not the balloons. So why is that less interesting than Paris? Is it because symbolism won't fly with them? I mean, the rally was great at all, but marching only matters if you armed to the teeth. And why is our media quick to find evil in our local police but not in Islamic terror. It's about fault. They spend decades blaming America and Islamic terror doesn't fit the bill. And you get better grades condemning a cop than a murderous fanatic. And so where there is no will there is no way as multi culturalism has metastasized into a shield against evil. But screw Islamophobia, we didn't execute Ted Bundy because he was a Methodist. If you see the link between my hatred of terror and Islam, that's your bigotry. And once you drop Islamophobia, then you can see the misogyny. Really, brutality towards women is radical Islam's Big Mac. You know campus feminist or edgy comedian cares. Maybe if Boko Haram were Republicans -- that would change. All right, K.G.


GUTFELD: Why can't they say it?

GUILFOYLE: They can't.

GUTFELD: Why would -- what's with Marie?


GUTFELD: Oh that Marie.

GUILFOYLE: Marie, you are at it again. And it happens every time she tries to have a conversation with Martha MacCallum.


GUILFOYLE: Martha is just too smart. Here's a problem, this administration left in general are so busy trying to create a new boogie man in America, Tea Party, terrorists, right?


GUILFOYLE: They were -- they are upset with the far right, Christian fundamentalists. These are people they wanna focus and see the fund. (ph) So that's why they can't say the word Islamic extremist, that's why they build a lot of groups. But if you look it, like he pointed out, the direct acts of violence and jihad have all been by Islamic extremists. So why can't you empower yourself? Use the word, and drop the bombs.

GUTFELD: Yeah. Bob, they gonna have this anti-terrorist summit, is it gonna -- act on get anything done if they can't actually face the facts?

BECKEL; No, I think it produces more people willing to go to war. Yeah, I guess but it won't do that. And, you know I'm beginning to believe here now that, at first I would give Obama a pass on this because, one he grew up in the society that was -- that was -- religion was Islam. And I thought that he didn't want to antagonize the 110 billion -- 1.7 billion Muslims around the world. It now begins to be clear to me that there --this is a directive. We are not gonna do this any differently. We are not gonna say this. But you can't have this many times being answered the question and have everybody stumble over themselves. So, my guess is he still believes that. He believes that how you say that, you got to isolate all the rest of the Muslim communities around the world. I don't think he is right, but that's what I think he is.

GUTFELD: All right.

PERINO: I absolutely agree with that, moment of truth.

GUTFELD: Go Ahead.

PERINO: I was just thinking -- it feels to me like they have -- they got their communications backwards. Sometimes it works that you sort of, eventually lead up to a thing where you get to the words that you want to use to describe. Other times you have to do it the other way around. I think this is one of those times where -- they've obviously been told in a big meeting like we are not going to use these words.


PERINO: Like say -- you'll get -- like when you play operation, you stick your little thing and you want to get the femur out.

GUTFELD: Suspected (ph)

PERINO: You can't touch the sides.


PERINO: Best how they are when they are talking they can't say Islamic extremism.


PERINO: And this is a foreign policy decision decided by the President of the United States, it's his language. If I were in the White House, I think I would advise the president, we need a speech from you. We need -- you sit down and we need to explain to the American people why we are not allowed to say Islamic terrorism. What is your vision? What do you trying to do? And sort of trying to do it the other way around, because they keep getting zapped on operation.

GUTFELD: Do you think it is weird, Eric. That like -- while is this been going on Boko Haram, he's been on a tear. Why is that just not getting the attention? I don't understand.

BOLLING: I'm not sure why it's not. I'm not sure why the Obama administration decided that they're not gonna say Islamic extremism or Islamic terrorist, it makes no sense. Today we have video, video with the killers from Paris on tape saying, we have avenged the prophet Muhammad, Al-Qaeda in Yemen. I mean, there's -- there's, there it is, there's your perfect link you can say, OK, so that was Islamic terrorism -- it is. Throw a quick number, 2 million Muslims in America, right? Not Pugh, you're OK with Pugh, Pugh research in polls.

BECKEL: Absolutely.

BOLLING: 19 percent says suicide bombs can be justified. 21 percent say they are OK with extremism, American Muslims. You are talking 400,000 people in America, some 8,000 per state if you want to divide it up equally, that are OK with suicide bombs and OK with Islamic extremism. You better start addressing it with what it is and start pointing the finger at the people who are OK with it. Unless you are not -- a lot of people say -- unless you put -- and tell -- call the target a target it's not gonna be the target. This is one where you can, look, we know where they are coming from, we know what the numbers reveal, it's time to point it out and say it.

BECKEL: Well you know what?

BOLLING: Just say it.

BECKEL: One of the things that are clear to me is that -- where they got their education wrong here, and Dana is exactly right. I think they think they are going to teach everybody not to say it, but continue to say it over and over again, that's a teaching moment, you know. We hear it over and over again so not everybody else who gonna drop it.


BECKEL: As opposed to saying, I -- we haven't said this. Let me explain to you why. And then, I -- probably you want to listen, maybe there is something I don't know about it, but to seek, to somehow because John Kerry is said that it does won't say it and this woman at the state department and somehow that's gonna feed itself out at the rest of the country, it's just crazy.

PERINO: This has happened before with them. And -- I will get back to you with what it was. There was a word.

BOLLING: The word, yeah.

PERINO: Remember that they wouldn't, that no one would say and it was obvious that that was the word.


PERINO: For that.


PERINO: Do you remember?

GUTFELD: I kind of remember it. It was years ago.

PERINO: Are you sure?


PERINO: I also think that -- this idea for their summit that they have on February 18, you called it an anti-terror summit, that's not what they call it. This is the counter extremism.

GUTFELD: Oh, yeah.

PERINO: Summit.

BOLLING: Or violent extreme -- extremism.

PERINO: Violent extremism, and I think when they -- when Marie Harf says -- well, there's all sorts of extremism.


PERINO: And you ask, OK, well what then, what's the priority? What's the -- at the highest, at the top of the list? Because you have limited resources, what are you going to target? What is your biggest concern?

GUILFOYLE: She won't even rank it.

PERINO: They will answer that.


PERINO: That's interesting.

GUTFELD: It is interesting. And on that note.

GUILFOYLE: The tease.

GUTFELD: The tease. Some Breaking 2016 News, next on The Five, I can't wait.


PERINO: Yesterday the Republican ticket made 2012 big news. Mitt Romney might be in for 2016. Paul Ryan said he's out and last night Marco Rubio revealed this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEAN HANNITY, THE HANNITY SHOW HOST: Where are you in the process? You are thinking about it.

MARCO RUBIO, UNITED STATES SENATOR: Yeah. I mean, so, the two most important questions are, what impact would have on your family, and the first and the foremost, and we've talked through that. I think that the second one is the more important question at this stage and that is, where is the best place for me to achieve this agenda of restoring the American Dream? That I write about in the book. Is it in the Senate or is it -- at this stage of my life, running for the president. So that's the decision only I can make that one. I know I can only answer that question.

HANNITY: You know they -- they.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PEIRNO: And then this morning Ted Cruz created some buzz after saying this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TED CRUZ, UNITED STATES SENATOR: Certainly something I'm looking at very seriously. And I think we are at a time of enormous challenge, I mean, we are starting a national debate this year about the direction of the Republican Party and about the direction of the country. I think Republicans are gonna nominate someone who will stand up and lead, who -- who will give bold voice and action to the values that built this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PERINO: So there has been a lot of movement, and Bob, I want -- hoping to go to you first on this and ask you, the Republican field and how it shaping up, how does that match politically with what you have seen in the past?

BECKEL: Well, first of all, let me just say, I thought Teddy Cruz was magnificent. I thought his message was right out there. And my man is just -- you get out front there, pal. Keep going.

You know, I'm not only giving myself credit for this, because this was my business more than I know. But remember I did say when Jeb Bush got in, it would force other people to jump in quickly. And that's what's happened.

Mitt Romney got in, essentially saying he's in. Called around the country and says, "I'm going to run to the right of Jeb Bush." Who is he kidding? He's not going to -- he's already known. People know that he's not somebody from the right, and he's not going to win from the right.

The other thing is, if you take somebody like Marco Rubio, who dismisses Jeb Bush and says, "Oh, it doesn't matter if Jeb Bush is running," of course it does.

And then the other thing is when you look at Rand Paul, who's the first person he hires? He hires a guy by the name of LaSavidda (ph), whatever the name is. It's Italian.

PERINO: LaCivita.

BECKEL: LaCivita. This is a guy who did the swift boat veterans. He's a right-winger consultant. Why in the world, if you're Rand Paul, and you're trying to get away from the image of your father, as a very far right- winger, why would you go with a group of people like that?

So I think what Jeb Bush did was force these guys out, and they forced some unearned errors. And I think the field is shaping up probably as we thought it would but about two months earlier.

PERINO: Let me ask Kimberly about Romney. That was a bit of a surprise over the weekend saying he is assembling his previous team. The previous team -- it doesn't mean he can't run again and win...

GUILFOYLE: Not the winning team.

PERINO: Right. So what do you think about that?

GUILFOYLE: What are you going to do different? What kind of outcome to make something, like, a fundamental change? Perhaps it needs to come from within. Maybe his team was great, but people said in the end he kind of lacked the killer instinct to take it all the way home. We saw that in some of the last couple of debates with Candy Crowley, et cetera, playing for the team of President Obama incumbent.

He had to get in now, because he's going after the same pile of cash that Jeb Bush is. If he waited any longer, it would have been done. That's why everyone is saying, "Well, this was a surprise" this weekend, because really, Jeb sort of bumped him out in many respects, because we already know that Romney didn't win, didn't get it across the finish line. So maybe people are saying, "I'm going to put my money on new fresh runner."

BECKEL: Romney would not have said this.

GUILFOYLE: A hundred percent.

PERINO: Not yet.

OK, let's ask Eric about the Senate, because we had -- we saw Rubio and Cruz. We know Rand Paul is thinking about running. Typically -- Obama's not example, but typically, senators have a hard time making it into the presidency. It would have been McCain or Obama in 2008, so that might not be exactly relevant. In terms of the big picture history, that's usually not the way that it goes. But do you think that any of those three are in a position?

BOLLING: Well, I think anyone is in a position for the reason you just stated. President Obama, no one saw him coming. Everybody said it should have been a governor; it should be somebody with more, you know, CEO experience; but he proved them wrong.

I find it really fascinating that Jeb Bush jumps in. Some donors start to -- start to make pledges to Jeb Bush, and Mitt Romney says, "I'm going to jump in, too," because he doesn't want Jeb Bush to get too much money, too much committed money early. He wants to get in.

Have we come to a place in politics where money is the only thing that matters anymore? Because the ideas, guys, aren't that different anymore.

GUILFOYLE: You need a game changer.

BOLLING: It's only about who's going to get the first big pile of money.

BECKEL: Also some endorsements and some people matter. Some endorsements and some consultants matter in this thing. But not all -- you're right. Money leads the way.

PERINO: Let me ask Greg...

GUILFOYLE: Follow the money.

PERINO: ... bother you or do you like the debate?

GUTFELD: I don't like it. I think that right now we need somebody that can unify a country in spite of a vocal powerful media that's intent on division. It's not about winning the media. It's about winning the people, and I don't think it's necessarily persuasive to eat -- to cannibalize yourself. I think that you have to pick the winner.

And also, I mean, about all of these choices. It's like when you go to a bar, if you're a single guy, you go to a bar, you don't dress comfortably. You know what I mean? You dress to win. And I feel like these candidates are comfortable. They're comfortable.

PERINO: They're wearing loafers.

GUTFELD: No, but they're like -- look, Romney, he's like a loafer. You know, a casual sweater. You know, I want somebody who -- a charismatic, persuasive Republican who wants to win, who's optimistic, who can bring order to chaos. I don't want somebody who thinks, "Hey, maybe I have a shot at it. I'll show up."

BECKEL: You know something, on the message part? There was no message that (UNINTELLIGIBLE). First of all you had Rand Paul say, "Romney had his chance." Right? He's gone. He's finished.

And then say this guy is too far right. But Romney says, "I'm going to be to the right of this guy." There's no message in that. There's no unifying message. This is not the...

PERINO: But it's the primary, so there can't be unity yet.

BECKEL: Oh, yes. Ronald Reagan figured how to do it.

GUTFELD: The thing which Reagan did, which was great, was he won the people. He marginalized the media. And that's what you need, an intellectual agility that I don't think I've seen yet in this pack. But maybe it will come out.

PERINO: It will be a fun couple of years.

GUTFELD: Is it really?

PERINO: I wouldn't miss "The Five." Never.

All right. Ahead, gas prices are finally lower than they've been in years, so why do some lawmakers want to bring them up again? Eric answers that one next.


BOLLING: Gasoline at the pump is down more than 100 days in a row. In 18 states gasoline is below two bucks per gallon, and gas is a dollar cheaper than it was a year ago. All great news to the U.S. economy and a welcome relief, especially to the lower income households, where they've struggled the most. In fact, the low gas prices will save Americans almost $200 billion next year.

So cue the greedy politicians who have their hands in everyone else's pockets. Listen.


REP. NANCY PELOSI (D), CALIFORNIA: I do think that if there's ever going to be an opportunity to raise the gas tax, a time when gas prices are so low, oil prices are so low is the time to do it.


BOLLING: Bob, I thought -- yes. I thought you guys were for the little guy. I mean, this lower gas price helps the lower income spectrum by far the most.

BECKEL: You're not going to get an argument (ph) from me here. What I will say, as usual, we did not put up -- the Republicans were in this, both Thune and the transportation secretary, James Lankford in Oklahoma both said they would look at it, as well.

Here's the reason they do it. It's a lot of money. I mean, they want to get their hands on money. If they had said, "If we're going to increase this, we'll dedicate every dollar to taking down the deficit."

But here's the problem. This is a regressive tax. It's like raising tax on beer. It drives me crazy when Democrats go out say, "Let's take a tax and increase it on the one thing that people who are in the lower income brackets use." They'll raise it -- I mean...

BOLLING: Finish that thought. They should raise the gasoline tax?

BECKEL: No, I said they should raise -- if they want to raise taxes on other things, raise it on your beach house.

BOLLING: Got you. OK.

All right. Dana, 18.4 percent per every single gallon you put in your car right now goes to federal gas tax, goes into that highway trust fund, which frankly, is kind of running out of money.

PERINO: OK. I think that we need to explain why Republicans would say this is worth looking at. There's a -- there's follow up point to that which is that it's worth looking at it, if you could figure out a way to make it revenue neutral so that it might be a better way to do a user fee tax or a highway trust fund tax so that you're actually funding those things. It might be a better way for the government to raise funds.

They're not asking for more money. It would mean that you would pay less taxes somewhere else. And that's where, intellectually, it makes sense. But it's really hard to do in practice because of all the legal -- legislative maneuvering.

BOLLING: So the fools are saying the gasoline prices are going down. That's affecting the highway trust fund. That is absolutely ridiculous. You still spend 18.4 cents per gallon, not on the price of the gallon but for the gallon. Honestly, K.G., lower gas prices increases demand. Most of the people drive.

GUILFOYLE: And more disposable income and money into your pocket to be able to be an active productive consumer, spending on goods, et cetera.

What we've seen here is a specific pattern by Pelosi and the administration, essentially to tax the middle class into poverty. This is another way to get a tax on the books before the Obama administration is over. I don't find this to be helpful. I find this to be punitive and misdirected. And it definitely is not supposed to be, like, in keeping with the Democratic Party looking out for you.

BOLLING: Remember when they said the trillion-dollar -- almost trillion- dollar stimulus package was going to be for infrastructure jobs and shovel- ready jobs?

GUTFELD: It's never enough. It's never enough. If they can find it they will take it.

You know, the people that -- the people that are for this tax don't have to worry about gas, because government essentially is their transport. They don't fill up their tanks. So you need to hit people like Pelosi where it hurts, like a Botox tax.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: Ten grand a wrinkle. Not a sin tax but a skin tax. So the -- and like, all these guys that, when they live in cities that don't drive, like me, do a Whole Foods tax. You know, tax those kale flakes. Tax the organic pet food.


GUTFELD: Tax brunch. A brunch tax.

PERINO: I agree.

GUTFELD: Get them where it hurts. They obviously don't care about the people that are trying to drive to work if they, in fact, might have a job in this administration.

BOLLING: Last thought, big boy? You good?

BECKEL: Me? I'm saying that I think the idea of revenue neutral would be a good idea, but it can't be -- the idea of it anyway, it still hurts people in the lower incomes.

PERINO: But, like, Nancy Pelosi, when she said that, the reason I said it was the wrong answer is that you do it because it's a good policy, not because gas prices are low.


PERINO: Gas prices are likely to go back up.

BECKEL: Anything that -- anything that puts a tax on middle and lower income people is a bad idea.

GUTFELD: You know what's the other thing, too, that is so cliched and evil, is that how is this not seen as greedy? Whenever -- the government is exempt from being greedy. Private citizens and companies are always seen as evil and greedy, because they want to profit. But the government picks your pocket any chance it can get, but they're never called greedy.

BOLLING: All right. We'll leave it right there.

A ranking member of the Senate Intelligence Committee is warning of sleeper cells right here in the United States. But how can we find terrorists if we're not allowed to monitor them? Next.


BECKEL: Federal appeals court is reviewing whether to reverse the decision that gave the New York Police Department the right to monitor Muslim communities. A group of Muslims in New Jersey is trying to get the ruling overturned, arguing that it violates their civil rights.

While the surveillance debate flare up again, Senator Dianne Feinstein is urging the government to play a more active role in seeking out terrorists on our soil.


SEN. DIANNE FEINSTEIN (D), CALIFORNIA: I think there are sleeper cells not only in France but certainly in other countries. And yes, even in our own. So I think this calls for vigilance. We can even be more active in terms of doing those things which enable us to find terrorists, to see who they're communicating with in this country and to track that.


BECKEL: Eric, I'm going to ask you this question. I was -- I was opposed to the idea of listening into Muslim houses of worship, because it goes back to the civil rights days, when the government listened into black churches when they were looking to try to get Martin Luther King's, find out what he was doing and trying to interrupt his marches.

But in this case, I guess my question is, one, is there -- this an exception to that? And secondly, why the NYPD? Why not the FBI? I don't understand.

BOLLING: Well, I think there was -- the FBI and the NYPD both wanted to be doing the surveilling. I think one -- one of them were feeling that they being -- their territory was being trampled a little bit. So there was a push from both of them to actually decide who was going to do it.

I would guess that -- Bob, I think that you can go ahead and look and say do you have probable cause? Is there some sort of profile of a history that shows that some of this stuff is happening and being talked about in mosques? And if the answer is yes, I think you have probable cause to go ahead and listen. And I think we have seen it.

Can I just clarify a number? Earlier in the A-block, I talked about how many American Muslims were OK with suicide bombs and how many were OK with extremism. I think I said 19. The number of American Muslims is around 8 percent that said they were OK with suicide bombs. And extremism, that number is still 240,000 or 230,000 American Muslims who would be OK with it. Globally, it's far higher. It's 28 percent of -- about 28 percent of Muslims worldwide who would be OK with suicide bombs. This is why you have to say is it OK to listen? Yes, you have to be able to listen, because you want to hear this before it happens.

BECKEL: What is the -- what do you have to take to the FISA court -- I assume it would be the FISA court you'd go to -- to monitor a mosque? What is the level of proof that you could -- that you should be able to monitor?

PERINO: It wouldn't be FISA courts, because that's foreign.

BECKEL: Then the federal court. Whatever. What would be the level -- what would you need to have to get that?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, well, you're going to have to put together some documents and affidavits to show that you have probable cause, right, to believe that somebody is acting in concert or working with a terrorist group or supporting jihad. So you have to thread it together. So that means active intelligence: people being on the streets, people being able to stop and ask questions of individuals that they suspect to put it together.

I think this is good because there are checks in place to make sure that it's not abusively done. So because you have to go through these legal hurdles to be able to do it why wouldn't you? Why wouldn't we be wanting to get some information that could actually prevent a terrorist attack, especially since we have so many individuals fighting that have passports coming back and spreading jihad. I want to know what's going on in these different institutions so we can stop the next one.

BECKEL: Well, that's important. We're not indiscriminately just going in and listening into mosques. I mean, Dana, that in and of itself would not be something that I think would be acceptable to Americans. But if we had some level of proof and we have already done this, some mosques were targeted after 9/11, weren't they, for raising money for the terrorists.

PELOSI: Absolutely. And I think we, at some point, have to trust the professionals on this. The intelligence community and law enforcement...

GUILFOYLE: They know what they're doing.

PELOSI: ... they work together. They work together now better than they did before 9/11. And we have to trust them that they are doing what they need to do in order to protect us.

One thing we cannot do, and Dianne Feinstein, it was interesting to talk about surveillance and she was very supportive of the NSA, but we also have to get information through questioning suspects and whether they're foreign or domestic.

But the problem we have in terms of communications is, in my mind now, is moving straight to social media. So in America we've created all these wonderful technologies, right, Google and Facebook and Twitter and social media, Instagram, all these things that now terrorists are turning around and actively using against us.

We have to figure out a way to work with them, and I think the counter extremism project that is up and running -- Senator Lieberman is a part of that; Fran Townsend, from the Homeland Security Department -- former adviser to the president on homeland security. They're heading that part up. And I think that cooperation with the private sector is going to be essential.

BECKEL: OK. They're telling me to get out, but I've got to ask you, Greg, social media, you've always had a problem with social media and how they use it. But is this a legitimate place to go to look for information?

GUTFELD: Monitoring activities is neither new or intrusive. We did that with communities in terms of getting rid of the mob. That was done. You go to any major sporting event, you go to a celebration at New Year's Eve, it's part of life that you're going to be watched. And cops, believe me, do not want to do this. Do you think they really want to listen to you chant five times a day. However, you should look on the bright side: you might convert them.

BECKEL: There you go. All right. Maybe 74 instead of 72. "One More Thing" is up next.


GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing" -- Eric Bolling.

BOLLING: OK. So last night was the first ever playoff championship for national college football. Check it out. There's a little sound.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And it's not fitting. It ends with an interception, and the Ohio State Buckeyes are the first national champions on the playoff era.


BOLLING: And so I owe the Ohio State fans a little bit of props there. I didn't think they should have been in that final four, but they were, and they handled Oregon phenomenally. Ezekiel Elliott ran for four touchdowns. He was an animal. Thirty-three million people watched that game last night. That was a record.

Congratulations, Ohio State.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, that's nice. There you go.

GUTFELD: Brady, did he play?


GUILFOYLE: Ha, ha, ha.

PERINO: Did anybody hit a home run?

GUILFOYLE: But speaking of dazed and confused...


GUILFOYLE: All right. So to commemorate the Criterion Collections release of Richard Linklater's classic comedy, "Dazed and Confused," they posted a few of Matthew McConaughey's audition tapes from 22 years ago. You want to take a look?




UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, what's up?

MCCONAUGHEY: Say, man, you got a joint?


MCCONAUGHEY: It would be a lot cooler if you did.


GUILFOYLE: So that -- I mean, he's so good, right?

GUTFELD: That was one of the best -- one of the best movies ever.

GUILFOYLE: So that was Dave Wooderson, early 20s, Texan slacker.

GUTFELD: All right, all right.


BECKEL: Been there, done that.

Listen, it's mating season for elephants.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

BECKEL: And there's two elephants roaming around a park in Thailand. And look what one of them did as he was going around, looking for a mate.

Ah yes. There's a couple in that car. And the elephant sits down on that car and then proceeds to go and rip a bumper off of another one. And I can tell you, pal, you're not going to mate with those cars. OK? That's all I can tell you. Go look in this jungle. You'll probably have a better shot at it.

GUTFELD: Love that.

GUILFOYLE: Bob, so interesting. Striking resemblance.

OK. Dana.


PERINO: OK. I've got an animal video, too.

GUTFELD: Oh, jeez.

PERINO: This is a clip. It's a black Labrador, and he lives in Seattle. So he gets on this bus with his owner, usually, and goes two stops to the dog park. But the dog doesn't like it when the owner is running late, so sometimes he just gets on by himself, and he goes two stops, sits next to strangers, watches until he sees the dog park, and then knows when to get off and waits for his owner to come and get him.

GUILFOYLE: That's awesome.

PERINO: Isn't that cute?

GUTFELD: Disgusting. He doesn't wear pants. Shouldn't be on the bus. There's always somebody there not wearing pants.

GUILFOYLE: That's my problem with the subway.

GUTFELD: It's isn't me.

BOLLING: It's Geraldo.

GUTFELD: It's Geraldo.


GUILFOYLE: Greg, you got anything?

GUTFELD: Got a banned phrase. Haven't done that in a while. Broken. When someone in power declares that something is broken that means it's actually fine. What they're really saying is, "Let's change this so I like it and ruin it." Nothing is ever broken.

PERINO: Is this personal?

GUTFELD: Yes. "The health care system is broken." It was never broken.

GUILFOYLE: Set your DVRs -- whoa, weird. Set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." That's it for us. "Special Report" is up next.

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