French magazine's last tweet spoofed ISIS leader

12 murdered in Islamist terror attack on satirical publication


This is a rush transcript from "The Five," January 7, 2015. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING,  CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Dana Perino, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock New York City and this is "The Five."




BOLLING: Western civilization is on notice. Islamic extremists will kill us if we speak our minds and it offends them. Muslim terrorism massacred in execution style 12 people in Paris at the headquarters of satirical newspaper, Charlie Hebdo, including its editor and two police officers. All three suspects are now on the run. French reports say the terrorists have been identified as two brothers, both French nationals, and a third who is homeless, ages 18, 32 and 3. The publication has a history of answering -- angering Muslims with some of its cartoons. The last tweet sent out was a cartoon mocking the brutal ISIS thug, Al-Baghdadi. Take a look at that one right there. It's actually pictured Al-Baghdadi saying -- and they were taking a shot at him. Now, Dana, you point out that it was only an hour or so prior to the attack. So it probably was a response back. Greg, can I go to you first?


BOLLING: I mean they knew this was coming.


BOLLING: They had heard about it.

GUTFELD: They have been bombed -- they've been bombed before. They had -- they had security there, and it still happened. It shows you how in just one quick thing. They're sitting ducks in France. They got the most powerful gun control in the world and nobody is armed. Even the police that first came to them didn't have any guns and had to leave. But I'll leave that alone. Clearly, these are religious extremist. I'm not sure whether there are Mormons or Buddhist. I'll wait to hear -- I'll find out later. But if you want to see what got these guys -- these heroic editors killed, you know, look at the cartoons. They are up on our website right now. Take a look at them. Print them out. Send them to your friends. You cannot cave to these cavemen. You've got to make sure that everybody sees what upsets these insecure little heathens. How strong is their religion that they feel threatened by a cartoon? Think about this affront to their religion and thing about the affronts to Christianity, to Mormonism, Book of Mormon, for example. Nobody does anything. They don't behead anybody.


GUTFELD: We laugh.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: How insecure are you -- are you about your God that this is what drives you to kill? If a cartoon offends you, imagine how weak you really are.

BOLLING: Will satire change? Clearly, we'll say -- we're going to say absolutely shouldn't but will people be -- will satirists be more concerned about it?

GUTFELD: I would hope not. Especially I would like to see the media, especially -- you know, in Hollywood, remember how brave Hollywood was over the Seth Rogan movie, the Interview. "Hey, let's put it out there. Let's play it for free." Why don't you do that with the cartoons? Stand up or shut u up. Show the cartoons. You know, that -- I would love to see mass demonstrations from free speech from nonviolent Muslims. Where is care? You know, stop putting out the press releases and hit the streets.

BOLLING: We're going to get to the president and the administration's response in a minute. Dana, talk to us a little about there were some reports in the aftermath of these 12 people massacred that ISIS was tweeting celebratory tweets.

PERINO: Well, right. And then I read on another place that at one point they said they were ISIS and another point they said they were Al-Qaeda. It gets back to the original point -- the argument that we had this summer. ISIS is Al-Qaeda. It is the same thing. So we have to keep that in mind. Second thing is citizens are soft targets all around the world. People that bristled at the idea that there was a global war on terror, all you have to do is look at the past six months, ask for a list of the terrorist attacks and you will find a place almost everywhere around the world, except maybe some islands in the South Pacific. We have global -- we have a global terrorism problem. I hope that the media does not become more risk averse (ph). Though I can imagine if you're an editor or a journalist you might think, you know, "Look, is my life really worth this cartoon, this documentary, this YouTube video? Is it worth my life to risk that?" I would hope that there are enough people that would say, "Absolutely. We are going to continue to exercise our right to free speech," because the right of each individual to have liberty, it's actually not given to you by your government, it is given to you by God, and that's for everybody all around the world. That's what life is about. It is you should be able to have freedom. Freedom of speech has been a very much important part of that.

BOLLING: One of the other freedoms that goes on especially in Europe and especially in France are it's kind of an open border policy. They have a lot of -- there are 5 million Muslims in France, by far the largest in any (inaudible).


BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Large percentage of the population.

BOLLING: . 80 percent of the population.

BECKEL: And this is the price in some way you pay for having an unrestricted immigration policy where they afraid -- the French politicians were put on notice that they had to allow these people in. And you know, they came in in droves. And now, they've got -- then you've got second, third, fourth generations of Muslims living in France and around Paris. I've been to Paris. They've got Muslim ghettos around and outside of Paris. But what amazes me even more is has anybody heard one imam (ph), one head of the state say that this is wrong?

BOLLING: Well, there was an imam who did.

BECKEL: Was wrong?


BOLLING: Yes. He made a comment.

BECKEL: The model, Iman.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: Not that one but there was another one as well. KG?


BOLLING: So they were warned. They had police presence there. They had a cop inside the board room as well. These guys were clearly outgunning the cops.

GUILFOYLE: Well, let me tell you something. There is the problem when you have police officers in France that aren't even carrying weapons. First of all, to begin with, they ride up on their bikes and then drive away because they see there's -- you know, shots being fired. There is an ongoing, you know, terrorist attack. So that's a problem right there. But when you look at it, this is a problem with an overall philosophy in foreign policy of appeasement and apology. And instead of, you know, fighting back against these individuals and making specific aims towards eliminating terror. You have people saying, "No. No. No. Let's not offend anybody," multiculturalism, which is part of the problem. And you've even seen Angela Merkel of Germany speak out about it.

BOLLING: Stay right there because you just transitioned to the next hour (ph). The Obama administration first avoided the word terror then took another pass, still no mention of Islamic radicals. Listen.


JOSH ERNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: This is a terrible act of violence and one that we condemn in the strongest possible terms. We are confident that the people of France are not going to be cowed by this terrible act of violence. This is an act of terror that we condemn in the strongest possible terms.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Just 30 minutes ago, you called it a terrible act of violence as you just mentioned there. Now you call it terror. What changed?

ERNEST: It's still something we're looking into. I know that the French president has called this an act of terror. It does seem to be that's exactly what this is.


BOLLING: And moments after that, President Obama delivered this, "We need (inaudible) familiar. We stand with the French comment." Again, no link to Islam.


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: I thought it was appropriate for me to express my deepest sympathies to the people of Paris and the people of France for this terrible terrorist attack that took place earlier today.

For us to see the kind of cowardly and evil attacks that took place today I think reinforces once again why it is so important for us to stand in solidarity with them as just as they stand in solidarity to us.


BOLLING: They gunman yelled "Allahu Akbar" and sought out the cartoonist and the magazine editor, executed them and then yelled "the profit has been avenged." KG, why is it so hard for the Obama administration to say it, they are Islamic terrorist and they will be stopped?

GUILFOYLE: They don't have the stomach for it. They have been unbelievably consistent in that regard and you have seen it applied here in terror attacks in the United States. I mean look at Fort Hood, right? Workplace violence, it's unbelievable. I don't understand why they can't call it what it is. That's the first step in addressing it because Islam, a religion of peace, I mean you've got call out these jihadists and these fundamentalists. They're actually becoming a religion of violence. And that's why you need other people of Muslim faith to step up and battle against them.

BOLLING: Secretary of State Kerry actually mentioned the imam who put a kibosh on the terror attacks. Yet, they will not link it to Islam. He will mention an imam but they will not link the terror attack to Islam. What is the issue you think here?

BECKEL: I think you're picking the fine straws here. I'm not sure.

BOLLING: Really?

BECKEL: Yes. I do. I mean, look, I think there is some sympathy with Obama for he was raised with Muslims. I've been hearing some of that. He's not the kind of guy who's going to say -- I don't know when he stands up besides to rattle the chains and that could change anything. So I don't think it's a big deal.

GUILFOYLE: But what are you saying by that, he was raised by Muslims so therefore.

BECKEL: Well, I mean I don't see what the -- by using the words automatically going to do something about this. I mean that's an important point.

GUTFELD: I don't think that's -- I think that the larger issue is -- look, you can't say the president isn't -- doesn't find this repulsive and disgusting. Of course, he does.

GUILFOYLE: We know that.

GUTFELD: This is a horrible thing. It's an act of terror. The problem is when that is married to another piece where he says, "but you still really shouldn't make fun of this religion," because what he's saying is you shouldn't upset them. How is that any different from saying, Kimberly, when you go out at night, you shouldn't be wearing revealing clothes because that might -- you know, that might entice people. That is -- that is an argument that would get fired.

GUILFOYLE: It doesn't matter what I wear.

GUTFELD: . that would get you fired. But however, when it comes to rhetoric and ideology, that's okay. You really shouldn't upset them.

BOLLING: But then couldn't he say -- couldn't he point his finger at radical Islam and say, "It's them. They are the target and we should all, not just Americans, we should all unite against that." Put a face to the enemy?

PERINO: OK. I think that we can do that here on cable news. We can opine. We don't have the kinds of responsibilities or the intel that he has. So -- and I'm not going to defend Josh Ernest. So he was already booked to be on television at 7.30 this morning when this.


PERINO: . story breaks. He's not in a position as he's sitting in there on live television to be able to say exactly what happened because there might be information they have at the White House that he doesn't know yet.  So, in between 7.30 and 9.20 what changed you probably got to call from the national security adviser who gave him some guidance on that.

Also, when it comes to the president, I -- not - I'm not talking about President Obama, let me show up President Hollande. Just last week at the U.N. Security Council, he voted for a resolution that would have in many people's eyes empowered Hamas. This is an organization that prohibits free speech, it harasses foreign journalists, and I think that in his mind, at a 13 percent approval rating, they're trying to deal with the problem in France, where they have a huge Muslim population, second largest in the country, did deal with the fact that they don't feel that they have assimilated well.

If he thought that they were going to appease French Muslims by voting for this U.N. Security Council resolution, he was just proven wrong. That is not going to help, and I do think that, however, President Obama, Hollande, leaders around the world, even Muslim leaders, they have to deal with the fact, that there is a growing anti-Muslim sentiment in Europe. It is dangerous, and it is something that we -- we don't have responsibility to deal with, but they do.

So, I think that in some ways when they pick their words kind of carefully, they have a longer view. I don't necessarily think it would match up with my longer view, my instincts of what I would wanna say, but I also don't have the kind of responsibility that -- that they do.

BECKEL: As so (ph) you said, the far right wing in Germany which is second back to the Jews as their target have changed their target now to the Muslims. There's gonna be a breakout of violence here, there's no question to my mind, in London and Paris, between -- go ahead.

GUTFELD: Well, but before that, we saw polling in France that was pro- ISIS.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: I mean, if we -- when we -- we're jumping ahead to the backlash, without observing the front lash, which is the fact that there is a population when you poll, might actually enjoy this, and that's what worries me. It's like, the next poll, how are they gonna feel about this attack on the -- on these editors.

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: .. if they -- if they -- if they find ISIS appealing. What might they think of this? That this was deserved. That they.

PERINO: But this has been the Hamas (ph).


GUTFELD: We're asking for it by wearing the appealing (inaudible).


PERINO: Well, and then -- and you have the -- the president of - the prime minister of Turkey, who actually suggested, you blame the victim.


PERINO: .. that the newspaper was stupid for having run it in the first place (inaudible).


GUTFELD: Financial times.

PERINO: I know.

GUTFELD: Financial times have blamed them.

BOLLING: Jay Carney, at one point in 2012, also make a reference that maybe we shouldn't be using provocative.


BOLLING: . pictures as well.

GUILFOYLE: Right. That's my whole point that I made in the beginning because this -- and this has been long coming. OK. This has been a problem that we've seen in Europe, in England, in France, and they've had challenging issues with these communities and religions that are very distinct and separate and desperate. They are not in a process of assimilating. That's the whole idea behind this multiculturalism being tipped-toeing around it.

Now, look what you have rot and look what they have now in Europe, really an untenable problem.

BOLLING: They have places throughout Europe, Great Britain -- in Britain, more so than say France and other places where they're called no go zones, where the cops don't even go in there. But where groups of Muslims had said, "We have this. We'll abide by our own Sharia law and the police have said OK, that you want that, that's yours. But Bob doesn't that breed more of this?

PERINO: The problem.

BECKEL: No I mean, what is -- what this shows us has somebody finally got a reach to conclusion that Muslims generally, as a rule, don't like the West. They're not gonna assimilate. They've tried everything they could in London try to bring them together. They don't wanna be out of their neighborhoods. They wanna be in the, you know, in this country, in Detroit, where Muslims gather in large numbers around the same place. Now, that's all right. That's not -- I mean, Irish should gather in the same place at times, Puerto Ricans generally gather in the same place and the.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, but not -- OK, but not committing like acts of.


BECKEL: No, no, I understand. What I'm saying is you could get.


GUILFOYLE: You can't -- care.


BECKEL: . you're not -- you're not gonna get this guys for every conversation.


GUILFOYLE: . community.


BECKEL: You know, you're not gonna talk them in a piece (ph).

PERINO: Well, can I just add one thing on that which is we haven't talk about the issue that is -- the medium that is fueling this, and that is we are dealing with the situation, an insurgency that is now worldwide because they can communicate by social media, and it's very hard to track them.  It's easy to narrow - they narrow it down so much that you're assimilating, actually only with people that agree with you or fuel your.


PERINO: . instincts on social media and then we have a worldwide movement to try to curtail what governments can do to try to the find them. And so there's things like the Counter Extremism Project, which try to -- to try to help governments to try to pinpoint them, but at this point, we are dealing with that thing though (ph). We don't have enough information that our -- enough speed to keep track of how people are communicating through social media and it will -- that will be -- it might be ever thus.

BECKEL: Yes. Nice.

BOLLING: Yeah, it is also -- when you look at the AP winning the Pulitzer for exposing the police, who were investigating mosques or watching mosques. Now, that is considered wrong, to be able to find valuable intel -- intel on things that will happen, the same AP that will like sensor these cartoons. Weird.

GUTFELD: Gonna leave it right there. Don't go away. We got lot more to cover on the terror attacks in Paris from today. Stay tuned.



OBAMA: The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam.


GUTFELD: The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam. President Obama said that two years ago at the U.N. and what a prophet he was. For the Paris paper that had mocked Mohammad, 12 futures no longer belong.

Of course, we condemn such barbarism, we always do. Condemnation after the fact is what the timid always do. Who are we to champion our free expression and shame their intolerance? That's so culturally insensitive to those who wish to behead, you which raises the contradiction.

Today bigotry in the United States is totally rejected, but if intolerance is international then it's culturally off limits. It's a lifestyle part of a diverse fabric that we must understand because we're at fault, you see, for our evil ways.

So, instead of condemning intolerance, we blame ourselves, perp-walking a filmmaker falsely blaming him for inciting Islamic gore. There we're validating evil giving barbarism a decade more of free parking.

We are a nation whose callow leaders are quick to condemn Islamophobia, less so the Islamoviolence that precedes it. But if reaction to evil is a phobia, then only the same would be phobic.

Remember on Bill Maher's show when Ben Affleck called anyone a bigot who dare to expose radical Islam? Fun.


BEN AFFLECK, AMERICAN ACTOR, FILM DIRECTOR, SCREENWRITER, PRODUCER: You're saying that Islamophobia is not a real thing?


BILL MAHER, HOST: We're not.

HARRIS: -- that certain people are bigoted against Muslims as people --

MAHER: Right.

HARRIS: -- and it's a problem.

AFFLECK: That's big of you.

HARRIS: But the -- but we have to --


MAHER: Why are you so hostile about this --


AFFLECK: It's gross, it's racist.

HARRIS: It's not --


HARRIS: We have to be able to criticize bad ideas and --


AFFLECK: Of course we do! Known (inaudible).


HARRIS:  -- Islam -- OK, but is --


AFFLECK: But why would.


HARRIS: But Islam at this moment is the mother lode of bad ideas.




MAHER: That's just a fact.

AFFLECK: It's an ugly thing to say.

MAHER: It's the only religion that acts like the mafia that will (INAUDIBLE) kill you if you say the wrong thing --

AFFLECK: That's true.

MAHER: -- draw the wrong picture or write the wrong book.


GUTFELD: It's Affleck's mentality -- a moral blindness to evil in front of you -- that our enemies cherished. I expect a dumbass actor to possess it, but not a president.

So, I know that Dana that Ben Affleck's response to what happened in France will be ignoring -- we're saying it's awful, but then worrying about the backlash, that always seems to be the -- the kind of equation that follows any of these things with people who believe that Islamophobia is worse than  of Islamoviolence.

PERINO: Putting the cart before the horse.


PERINO: Right. So, they're worried about what's going to happen afterwards. I can understand that especially if you are in government, and if you remember, I think it was two summers ago, when we were actually on air when there were all the riots in France like night after.


PERINO: . night and that was fueled by angry Muslim youth.


PERINO: . because they felt that they were being discriminated again but didn't have economic opportunity. Their schools are not good enough. It's -- it's -- it's actually what they -- what they seem to be looking for, and those riots was better economic mobility. With the terrorists today were looking for was revenge, and I think that those two things can be separated out.


PERINO: I've -- and I don't know how a government is actually going to thread that needle.


PERINO: . to use one of your.

GUTFELD: . banned phrases.

PERINO: . banned phrases.

GUTFELD: Eric, you know, we -- we were always told for I don't know how many years that it was -- that it was things like GTMO, and what was going on in GTMO, torture, waterboarding is what leads to this sort of violent display. It wasn't. It's cartoons. It's cartoons that got them killed.  It's not all the things that the -- the hanging of Saddam Hussein was gonna be a backlash. It's never that. It's always this.

BOLLING: It's a hatred to the West.


BOLLING: It -- hidden behind, hey that cartoon offends our religion.


BOLLING: The reality is, Jesus, Moses, Mohammad were man and the -- and Muslims believe that Mohammad should never be pictured. He was a man.


BOLLING: He wasn't to be idolized by picturing, by drawing him, by showing a picture of him. It would create a more of a god atmosphere around and they thought that was bad. Is that enough to kill people over? Obviously not. They clearly don't care if they picture -- if Jesus is pictured or Moses is pictured, right?

So, here's the point, why wouldn't Muslims now say, "All right. That was then, it's part of our history," but look, we're 2015, we're globalized right now, we're around the globe. We need to assimilate what -- if -- into other communities. We're going to relax that role. We're not gonna kill for putting a picture of Mohammad on our -- on our magazine cover or drawing a cartoon of him.

BECKEL: You know, you would.

GUTFELD: That would be nice of them.

BOLLING: It would be nice all of that.


GUILFOYLE: It's never gonna happen.


BOLLING: Why not?


BECKEL: That does, you know, there's a -- there'll be no system (ph).


GUILFOYLE: They are realistic. They don't wanna.

BECKEL: All right. It sounds the right thing (ph)?



BECKEL: All right. And you would think that there are probably images getting ripped apart everyday into somebody and some position of power would say, you know, we're setting ourselves back a long way. I can't get enough what you said.

I don't get it, I do not - unless they're just so frightened to these people that they refuses to say, if you're sitting in the - if you're in the house of Saudi (ph), you're a Muslim leader around the world, you don't - you're watching your religion being ripped apart because of these fools.

GUILFOYLE: Well, you should help crush them.


BECKEL: That's what I mean.

GUILFOYLE: That's what they should be doing.


BECKEL: And they won't do it.


GUILFOYLE: You can do anything you can.


BECKEL: And I couldn't likely can understand why.


GUILFOYLE: . to put money and weapons and intelligence.


BECKEL: They're secured (ph).

GUILFOYLE: . committed to it. That's all.


BOLLING: That's.


BECKEL: All I can say is they're scared of the cowards.


BOLLING: Further on board.

GUILFOYLE: They should be leading the chart.

BOLLING: Whether on board.

PERINO: And it's something, you know.


GUILFOYLE: That's the problem.

PERINO: . you think at the United Nations, I know they got a lot on their plate, but their main agenda item is global warming.



GUILFOYLE: There is.

PERINO: Instead of global terror and it's actually.


GUILFOYLE: They become a show (ph).

PERINO: . you know, I'm not suggesting that U.N. should actually do anything but NATO, for example, is a place -- is an entity that could help share intelligence about these types of attacks, hopefully to prevent them from occurring.

GUTFELD: I wanna -- Kimberly, I wanna just play this thought. This is Jeh Johnson talking about the idea of lone wolves. I wanna ask you if that term still applies.


JEH JOHNSON, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: It is evolving in that there are more affiliates adherence to core terrorist organizations and lone-wolf actors, actors who may lurk within our society, that could strike with little notice, commit an act of violence because they have been inspired by things they see on the Internet, social media.


GUTFELD: Is the term lone wolf essentially irrelevant now that everybody is connected?

GUILFOYLE: It's like obsolete.


GUTFELD: So, part of that is.

GUILFOYLE: . like my 1969 Encyclopedia Britannica what he's talking about.  Any terrorist attack that happened can be traced it back to some kind of form of radical terrorism, some connection with the group whether they've been inspired and I'm gonna sit there with the calling card, like a library card and say, "Hi, I've been radicalized,: self-radicalized or not.  They're acting on their beliefs in their religious beliefs and carrying out these attacks.

It really shows that they don't have an understanding of the depth of this problem by saying lone wolf. It is all tied in. Any of these acts since 9/11, in Canada, in the United States, in Australia, whatever we've seen recently and now this here in Paris, same thing.

GUTFELD: It always seems like the people are ahead of the government in identifying threats whether it was in every major war (ph).

GUILFOYLE: That sounds comforting.


All right. The country's biggest problem, revealed by Dana Perino, it's me. Next.



PERINO: So this country's faced a lot of problems in the last year.  What was the most important one to Americans?

Well, for the first time in Gallup's polling history, they named the government as the top one, including the president and Congress. The economy dropped down to No. 2 in 2014, after seven years as Americans' top concern. Both of those are followed by jobs and health care, so kind of all one and the same.

Greg, do you think this is a good development?

GUTFELD: Well, I was going to make that pint, that they say -- OK, they say government's No. 1. Then it's economy, unemployment, healthcare.  So basically, you're saying government is No. 1, No. 2, No. 3 and No. 4.  Because it's poisoned all these patches. Overregulation and the over- taxation and the intrusiveness in all areas of your life burdens your pursuit of achievement in all of those areas.

In a sense, this poll says -- is pleading with the government to get behind us, not to get in front of us. Not to block our path, but to push us forward.

PERINO: Are you surprised at all, Eric, that this is -- that the messaging that I don't think that's true on the mainstream media, but we can certainly talk a lot about it here. Which is that government is a problem. That it actually seems to be getting through?

BOLLING: So 18 percent for the government, right? But as Greg points out, if you just lump the economy and the jobs here, you're up to 32 percent. I think that's really what Americans are most worried about.

The interesting part of the survey, something we talk a lot about, race, is only 3 percent. It's near the bottom. And terrorism is only 2 percent. Yet we talk a lot about those two. Another point, healthcare came in fourth or so. This year the employer mandate kicks in. By the end of this year, I bet you that number goes higher. That's going to have an effect on jobs and the economy.

PERINO: Bob, if you are planning a presidential campaign for a Democrat, and you look at this type of a poll, and you're thinking of longer terms with a bigger picture, I think this is kind of the seminal point of 2016, which is who's going to run a campaign that says, "I think the government should do less?"

BECKEL: If I could indulge you all and just have 30 seconds without having to argue...

PERINO: You're on the clock.

BECKEL: If there is one thing -- you've had one political party of the two main parties of this country, since Ronald Reagan said, the problem is government, has made the anti-government theme, their theme.

Now I grant you the government's too big. It's too overregulated; it does all that. But the government is absolutely essential. And the idea to make your political party built around a message that is destructive to this country, when you look all around, everybody benefits. A lot of people don't benefit. I understand that. GUTFELD: They get benefits.

PERINO: That's -- your 30 seconds is complete.

But wait. Who is saying that we don't need government? I think people are saying they want government to work better.

BOLLING: A problem. That is the biggest problem.

PERINO: The government is a problem. No? It was 30 seconds.  Kimberly, you take your 30 seconds.

GUTFELD: It was beautiful, too.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. OK. So I think the candidate in 2016, regardless of whether it's a Republican or a Democrat, has to get back on top and say America is great; believe in American exceptionalism. Together as a country, there isn't anything we can't do.

However, let's try and do it better. Let's do it smarter. Let's not burden businesses, middle class, people who are trying to get ahead, that are, you know, struggling. Why would we try and put handcuffs on them by overregulating, by overtaxing?

There is a strong argument to be made, a sensible argument to be made for smaller, limited, more efficient government. Why would that be a bad thing to say? And it's not like anti-government. We know the government helps people. But it has to get back on track to help people with the -- you know, a helping hand versus just a hand out. And that's what we need to get back to.

PERINO: You mentioned... BECKEL: The employment -- I'm sorry, go ahead.

PERINO: No, go ahead.

BECKEL: I was going to say the employment numbers are down because the economy is better. That's why.

PERINO: You have a significant number of people who stopped looking for work. You have the lowest employment participation rate that -- that the country's ever seen.

GUILFOYLE: Congratulations to the president for turning a two-year recession into a six-year one. Yay.

PERINO: Kimberly, you mentioned America's standing -- well, you mentioned...

BECKEL: I give up.

PERINO: ... American exceptionalism. I think that that actually is at the heart of this.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you.

PERINO: Anxiety is about America's standing in the world. What do you think?

GUTFELD: Well, I said that. I said that many times. I was -- I was going to cede my remaining time to Bob.

But this is a philosophical argument. You know, it's always going to be big versus small. Liberals like Bob believe that most answers can come from the government; therefore, the government should be larger. As a conservative or libertarian, you believe that the answers come from the individual, and the government is there when you really, really need it.  So therefore the government must be smaller.

This argument will never go away. The public will address the government the way it addresses the weather. When the weather's bad, it's bad. When the government's bad, it's bad. But the -- they're always going to want to have a government, the same way they're always going to want to have weather.

PERINO: I think everybody wants to have good government.

GUILFOYLE: No one's saying don't have government, though. I mean, come on. There's a certain role and a function. But then you have to, like -- it has to be checks and balances on it. Because otherwise, it's going to continue to grow. And it's not providing better services...

BECKEL: That is -- that is a reasonable thing to say. If the rest of the conservatives would stop saying, "Government is bad, government is bad." Ronald Reagan's infamous, "The problem is -- the problem is government." It's silly.

PERINO: Is that your imitation of Ronald Reagan?

BECKEL: That's about the best.  I think I do better than he does.

GUTFELD: You're a regular Rich Little, Bob.



PERINO: Yes. You should see my imitation of (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

BECKEL: It's just -- you listen to these guys on Capitol Hill. All they do is talk, "The government's too big and too bad."

GUTFELD: Let's remember what government's supposed to be. It was supposed to be small, and it was supposed to be people who...


GUTFELD: ... worked in government; it was a part-time job. You were a farmer. You were a lawyer. You came and left (ph).

BECKEL: Right. That was 300 years ago.

GUTFELD: It wasn't a bad time then.

BOLLING: Bob, do you realize that President Obama's tacked on seven and a half trillion dollars of debt in six years?


BOLLING: And it's more than all the debt...

BECKEL: You realize the demographics in this country...

BOLLING: .. in the history of all...

GUILFOYLE: Right. That's right.

BECKEL: ... is getting older and older as the debt is going up?

BOLLING: No, but isn't it about what your government...

BECKEL: You're not talking about. You're just talking about beat up Obama. I see that.

BOLLING: ... should be? Is government out of control? Is it runaway government?

BECKEL: Absolutely.

PERINO: All right.

BECKEL: Absolutely, yes.

GUILFOYLE: Doing a great job with welfare.

PERINO: We promise to let you know if, with Bob rocking back in his chair, irresponsibly like that, is going to come to an accident during the commercial break.

BECKEL: And they will.

PERINO: We will -- we'll film it, and we will bring it to you when we come back.

Coming up, more to come on the terror attack...

GUILFOYLE: You're going to fall. Bob, don't. It's not funny.

PERINO: ... in Paris today.

BECKEL: I'm not going to fall.

PERINO: Massive manhunt still underway for three jihadists who stormed the offices of a newspaper and opened fire. Stay tuned.

GUTFELD: ... break.


GUILFOYLE: First fairy tales and now fun. Well, yesterday we told you about our concerns over letting kids watch movies like "The Lion King."  But there's now a push to stop them from doing activities considered too dangerous, like sledding, which was just banned in parts of an Iowa town.  And also jumping on trampolines, after the American Academy of Pediatrics warned about the injuries they can cause.

So should we just let kids be kids, thought? Will overprotecting them hurt them in other ways down the road? That's the question. So we've become a nation of safety: no dodgeball, no trampolines, no scary movies.  No good?

GUTFELD: If, by age 15, you don't have a scar somewhere, you're not truly a human being. It's true; it's true.

And by the way, trampolines -- you probably know this -- were designed to thin the herd. It was part of a 1940s experiment where they...

PERINO: What? Why would she know this?

GUTFELD: No, they were delivered to homes across the United States.  And trying to get the stupid kids to get on there and then jump and then fall. And that would kind of, like, create a more homogenous fabric across the country.

The reason why they are going after stuff like sledding and sandwiches and keeping score is because it's easy to make judgment calls on that stuff. So you're shifting away from the real problems that you're seeing in our culture.

We can no longer condemn the abandoned family unit, because that is politically incorrect and could be construed as bigoted. Therefore, you can go after the intact family for spanking, for diet, and those things.  Those are simple. You can get self-righteous over that, but you can't go after a man who leaves his wife and leaves the kids. You can't do that.  The single mother is a hero.

GUILFOYLE: OK, you just did three segments in one. It was pretty interesting. All right. Dana.

GUTFELD: I don't know what I said.

GUILFOYLE: We're not sure.

PERINO: I used to -- I did all those things, except for the snap bracelets. That was one of the things in here I don't -- snap bracelets I didn't have.

One of the things that it suggests here that kids can't do anymore is keep score. Well, life is about keeping score and dealing with it and trying to win. I mean, being competitive.

The other thing is that this -- Boone County School District in Kentucky, they banned any sort of cupcakes or cookies at the school for any celebration. So instead, they recommend bringing stickers, jump ropes or pencils to get the party started.

GUILFOYLE: I'm surprised they even allow jump ropes any more. Right?

PERINO: Jump ropes. I loved the trampoline. I was really good at it.

BECKEL: Me, too.

GUILFOYLE: I bet. OK, not for you any more, Bob.

BECKEL: No, but I'll tell you, what bothered me -- one of the things that bothered me about this: one, I probably do agree with some of these towns are getting sued, so they're limiting where they...

GUILFOYLE: Especially the sledding. A lot of lawsuits for the city.

BECKEL: Yes, right. But you know, trampoline. Everybody I know is a reasonably good athlete -- and I consider myself a reasonably good athlete -- started on the trampoline. I had a trampoline when I was a kid. It was a great game (ph).


BECKEL: Good form of balance. They -- what?

GUILFOYLE: When were you -- when? Now?

BECKEL: What are you laughing about?

BOLLING: I was -- visualizing you...

BECKEL: I was about to use a really banned word. You're sorry.

Never mind. Never mind.

GUILFOYLE: He's taking it seriously.

BOLLING: It's like job -- Bob...

BECKEL: I can out-jump you in a second, big boy. Why don't you get on there and try it with me? Let's go find a trampoline and see how you can do, big mouth? Huh? Seriously, let's see you do it.

BOLLING: You're in a bad mood today.

GUILFOYLE: You are so crazy.

BECKEL: Come on, let's go. Let's do it.

GUILFOYLE: You are so cranky.


PERINO: I like this -- I like it.

GUTFELD: I thought "trampoline" was -- oh, never mind. Just going through a bad area.

GUILFOYLE: You know what? Don't ruin my segment. I had the most innocent, best segment ever.

And by the way, sledding can be vicious. Let me tell you. Go over to Central Park here. Woo! Dangerous.


BOLLING: No, it's good. No, no, it's good.

GUILFOYLE: Bolling, what do you have to say? You're last here.

BOLLING: No, I was taking what Greg said and take it one step further. Family unit, yes. You do all those things. Go ahead, do them.  But have some parental involvement, so you're there, supervise.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

BECKEL: Do you have the cojones to get on a trampoline?

GUILFOYLE: Why are you so upset about this?

BOLLING: Definitely going to be a 2015 smack-down...

GUILFOYLE: I dare you.

PERINO: Challenge.

BOLLING: Trampoline challenge.

BECKEL: You got it.


PERINO: Do it.

GUTFELD: Not here. Outside.

PERINO: Bob's going to have to sign a release.

GUILFOYLE: ... hear it again when you lose it.

BECKEL: I'll beat him like a drum. Like a drum.

GUILFOYLE: Bob, you can't jump on a trampoline.

BECKEL: Yes, I can jump on a trampoline, very, very well. 

GUILFOYLE: Coming up, we return to the jihadi attack in Paris. Some liberals are refusing to tie the terror to Islam, but Bob's going to set them straight next.

PERINO: I think you should...


BECKEL: Today, three Islamic terrorists killed 12 people in Paris and injured 11 others at the headquarters of a satirical newspaper. During their escape, the jihadists were caught on tape shouting, "Allah akbar."






BECKEL: Now, regrettably, there are some wimps on my side of the aisle who seem to be afraid to talk about what these people are about.  Also on the right, I might add. This attack is clearly the act of Muslim terrorists. And Howard Dean has got something he wants to say on this.  Howie, let's hear it.


HOWARD DEAN, FORMER DNC CHAIR: I stopped calling these people Muslims. Terrorists, they're about as Muslim as I am. I mean, they have no -- they have no respect for anybody else's life. That's not what the Koran says. And, you know, Europe has an enormous radical problem and an enormous -- I think ISIS is a cult, not an Islamic cult.

I do not think that we should accord them any particular religious respect, because I don't think -- whatever they're claiming their motivation is, clearly it is a twisted cultish mind.



BECKEL: The idea if suggesting that this is a cult, like a Bob Jones kind of cult, that is somehow just peripheral to the rest of this is just absolutely ridiculous. It is -- if we haven't learned yet, Howard, when are we going to learn? They are Muslims. The people being quiet are Muslims, who are afraid to start to speak out. The government heads who are Muslim are afraid to speak out. And CAIR, that great organization here in the United States, keeps their mouths shut when things happen.

Eric, go ahead.

BOLLING: So -- OK, Bob, then what about Ft. Hood and al-Hasan. Was he a Muslim, and was that a terrorist attack by a Muslim extremist?

BECKEL: Yes, sure. Yes, that was.

BOLLING: Why does Eric -- why did Holder and Obama...

BECKEL: I can't get into their minds. I can't say.

BOLLING: So it's -- apparently, it's the left mentality.

GUILFOYLE: Well, then that's why it's a problem, Bob.

BECKEL: I don't think that's -- I know a lot of people on the left who have the same feeling about that.


BECKEL: I know a whole lot on the left that have the exact same feeling I do.

BOLLING: You have guy who almost -- who was almost the president, you have a guy who is president, you have a guy who was the attorney general, who all have a fear of calling...

BECKEL: Can you name some of your big heroes -- like what did your boy from Kentucky say about it? Has he said anything publicly?

BOLLING: What? BECKEL: I mean, I haven't seen a Republican, main...

BOLLING: We're talking about Howard Dean's inability to call...

BECKEL: Yes, but you think that for the entire left, and I'm saying that's not a fair evaluation.

BOLLING: All right.

PERINO: Oh, my God.

BECKEL: Howard Dean, you bring him out and he says something like that. Of course he makes a stupid statement.

BOLLING: Agreed.


PERINO: One of the keys to distinguishing between ISIS and a cult, as one you mentioned, like the Bob Jones cult, is financing. And we know from intelligence services that a lot of the financing for al Qaeda, which is ISIS, comes from very wealthy Muslim people.

BECKEL: Yes, the Saudis.

PERINO: I mean, that's one of the keys. And so I think that being honest about that is important.

BECKEL: Yes, well, that's the problem.

PERINO: Jim Jones, excuse me. Not Bob Jones.

BECKEL: We don't seem to be willing to be honest about it. That's the problem. Greg.

GUTFELD: Well, we're focusing on the word "cult." When you're talking about Jim Jones, it was 900 people, I believe, he killed. It was a...

BECKEL: Bob Jones is a sausage.

GUTFELD: Yes. It's also a university. But it is -- the point is...

GUILFOYLE: You mean, Jimmy Dean, sausage?

No, it's Jimmy Dean is a sausage.

GUTFELD: But -- Howard Dean is right.

PERINO: Oh, my God. Oh, my...

GUTFELD: Howard Dean is right, it is a cult. And we have to admit that it is a cult. It is a death cult.

Also he came out against -- in a weird way, Howard Dean said this, as well. France has tremendous gun control laws; yet, these people are able to get Kalashnikovs. Wow. He just came out against gun control.


GUILFOYLE: He doesn't know what he was saying. That whole thing was so convoluted. I mean, the best thing coming out...

GUTFELD: Well, that -- that was clear.

GUILFOYLE: Right. GUTFELD: He said gun control didn't stop them from getting Kalashnikovs. That's quite a statement.

PERINO: Therefore?

GUTFELD: If you had -- did not have gun control, perhaps somebody could have stopped these Muslim terrorists. Perhaps the cops.

GUILFOYLE: But there has to be a united front. And it has to start, too, with the United States.

BECKEL: Well, that didn't stop them. It didn't stop them at Ft. Hood. And there were guns everywhere, right?


GUTFELD: No, they didn't.

PERINO: No, they weren't allowed to have guns...

GUTFELD: They didn't have guns, Bob.

PERINO: They can't have their guns on base.

BECKEL: But they can't have -- they can't have the policeman come in with a gun and shoot?

GUTFELD: By the time she got there, it was over.


GUTFELD: I'm telling you the truth.

BECKEL: "One More Thing" is up next.


BECKEL: It is.

BOLLING: All right. Time for "One More Thing." I'm going to kick it off.

So you remember this. Take a look at Chris Christie hugging it out with the Cowboys owners after the Cowboy win. Well, the Cowboys are going to travel now to Green Bay, the home of Scott Walker. So Scott Walker tweeted this: "This is the type of owner I'll be looking to hug after the Packers win on Sunday, the Cheesehead right there."

Good tweet, Governor Walker.

And then Chris Christie delivered this self-deprecating treat: "Governor Walker, don't worry. There are enough awkward hugs to go around."

I really don't get that...

PERINO: I do. I get it. Pretty cute. Pretty funny.

BOLLING: It's going to be a fun playoff weekend.

Dana, you're up.

PERINO: It is. OK, so, we had something exciting happen on New Year's Eve, but I couldn't tell you about it, because he was on his honeymoon. Jack Wright, who is our audio technician here on "The Five," was married on New Year's Eve to his new wife. This is Keisha (ph) and Jack on New Year's Eve. And "The Five," we want to wish them many years of marital bliss.

GUILFOYLE: There he is. Yay, Jack!

PERINO: Well done, Jack. We love Jack.

BOLLING: Very good, all right, Greg, you're up.

GUTFELD: Jack has seen a lot of stuff here.

GUILFOYLE: He sure has. Let me tell you.

PERINO: He's heard a lot.

GUTFELD: If he wants to write a book, he will make millions.

GUILFOYLE: Let me tell you.

GUTFELD: Sorry, Jack.

All right, it's time for...


GUTFELD: Greg's Sports Corner.


GUTFELD: All right, one of my favorite sports is hedgehog tubing. It took off today, the international. Let's take a look.

This is Spiky McFurbag, aggressively mounting an attack that shocked the place. Everybody there was overwhelmed at how he took to this. He was able to get his 20 ounce body inside that tube. Well, he didn't quite make it there. But you get the picture.

If you ever are interested in hedgehog tubing, come by my place. I'm in midtown. I have a whole setup in my basement, nothing but hedgehogs and toilet paper tubes.

PERINO: That's some toilet paper tube.


PERINO: That's a paper towel.

BOLLING: K.G., you're up.

GUTFELD: I have a lot of paper towels.

GUILFOYLE: OK, five, some great news that we want to celebrate here in New York City about people coming together, because the Steven Siler Tunnel, Two Towers Foundation, announced that they have reached their goal, surpassed it in fact, to be able to pay off the mortgages of the two NYPD officers, Ramos and Liu.

PERINO: Wow, great.

GUILFOYLE: So that's taken care of; $800,000 taken care of so the widows -- and they were on hand today to present it -- won't have to worry about that for their families going forward, which is really incredible, just in, you know, two weeks' time, to be able to do that.

BOLLING: Amen. Amen.

GUILFOYLE: So God bless them for that. Yes.

BOLLING: That's fantastic. Great stuff. Great stuff.

All right, Bob, you're up.

BECKEL: First of all, I want to thank -- you know, probably most of you have known that I had some back problems. And many of you sent in some remedies, some of which worked, some of which I'm still recovering from.

But the number of you that contacted, particularly conservatives, actually wishes I didn't have a back operation, which was surprising. But he's the good news. I found out yesterday, because of a team of very good doctors, and people who finally agree with themselves that I do not now have to have back surgery. And the number of people in the country who get back surgery that don't need it is -- I'm learning more and more about it.  I'm going to share it with you as we go along.

GUTFELD: So does that mean you don't need your Percocet?

BECKEL: You can have them.

GUTFELD: We're all winners today!

GUILFOYLE: What about that electric stimulation thing?

PERINO: What did they say about the trampoline?

BECKEL: The trampoline's fine.

GUTFELD: The trampoline caused the back pain.

BOLLING: Exactly.

BECKEL: You're going to have to have the ambulance next to that trampoline for Bolling when he gets up there.


BOLLING: That's is. "Special Report" up next (ph).

GUTFELD: Trampoline of the hotel you -- never mind.

Content and Programming Copyright 2015 Fox News Network, LLC. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED. Copyright 2015 CQ-Roll Call, Inc. All materials herein are protected by United States copyright law and may not be reproduced, distributed, transmitted, displayed, published or broadcast without the prior written permission of CQ-Roll Call. You may not alter or remove any trademark, copyright or other notice from copies of the content.