This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 29, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle along with Bob Beckel, Charles Payne, Jedediah Bila and Joanne Nosunchinsky. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."
Two days after hundreds in his police force turned their backs on him, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio addressed the next generation of the NYPD and they got a mixed welcome at the graduation ceremony for cadets. Some boos and jeers were heard amongst the applause.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIIFED MALE: The honorable Bill de Blasio.
BILL DE BLASIO, NEW YORK CITY MAYOR: Thank you. Congratulations officers. It is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: As for the reception, de Blasio got at the funeral for Officer Rafael Ramos. Commissioner Bratton wasn't happy about it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL BRATTON, NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: I certainly don't support that action yesterday. I think it was very inappropriate at that event. That funeral was held honor Officer Ramos, and to bring politics or to bring issues into that event, I think was very inappropriate and I do not support it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Bratton thinks this is a risk that will go on for some time. He also noted morale has been low for police and blames the feds for turning their backs on law enforcement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BRATTON: They really do feel under attack, rank and file officers and much of American police leadership, that they feel that they are under attack from the federal government at the highest levels. So that's something we need to understand also, the sense of perception that becomes a reality.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Alright Bob, your thoughts?
BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: First of all, if you look at the number of police who were involved in doing the things they did to demonstrate against this, it was a relatively small number. I don't look. De Blasio -- I have politicians for -- you know, 20 years and I've always found one line they came up with and wish they had back. And de Blasio was -- I taught my little kid to be afraid of police. That was one they got every cop riled. The other thing about the history of New York is, if you don't have police department with you -- take a look at Diggins, take a look at Lindsay -- it hurts you. And so, I think that if I were him, it is possible. I go on a pretty aggressive public relations tour, it may be too late.
GUILFOYLE: What can you say, and will it be too little, too late.
CHARLES PAYNE, GUEST CO-HOST: It will be null and pride (ph) too little too late, but it won't be sincere, and this is why he's grappling with that. I'm sure Bob. He's got people on his team who told him that, "Hey, what the heck. How can you say that? You talked about -- you're the unifier, you're the mayor of the town, you're supposed to bring them together not scare both sides of the equation." But, it's in his heart, this is how he became mayor, this is one of the things he campaigned on. He's from that old social set, the old 60s, you know. The anarchist, socialist thing, whatever, and they just -- they just don't like the way America is, and they want to change it dramatically, dramatically. He's part of that, that whole culture, and part of that changing that is the diminished role of the police.
BECKEL: I'm an anarchist, socialist from to the 60s. I don't want to see a change. Particularly you're a plaque book (ph), I think I'm happy for you.
PAYNE: Well, I -- you might have been reform from sitting at this table for awhile.
JEDEDIAH BILA, GUEST CO-HOST: There you go.
PAYNE: But the fact of the matter is that, if you look at all of the demonstrations that have come up, a lot of these things have been orchestrated, organized very well, (inaudible) people, the irony of course is that they became very wealthy in this country but still, have a resistance to it. It's not the first time, you guys ever get a chance, read about Gillette. You know the guy with a shaving thing, major socialist, even though he maybe wanted to be a millionaire at the same time. So, this has been going on for a long time and this is your moment, I think the last two years of the president -- presidency, they feel like they might have to strike right now or it may be too late.
GUILFOYLE: I want to ask you a question, Charles. Where in the comment that Bob made, the thing that really transcended across all lines, because, the color of the NYPD is blue, OK? So whether you're white or Latino, Hispanic, Asian-American, nobody liked it. When he said that about his son that I have to raise my son to be basically to be fearful, to be distrustful of police because harm could come his way, form the men and women that serves in blue.
PAYNE: Well, it's a huge -- it's a huge disc. (ph) I -- it is a -- I have a nephew who's in the New York City police -- in the New York City police department, there were a lot of black and Hispanic law enforcement officers who turned their back on the mayor, along with their colleagues. It just makes the job so much harder than it has to be. And here's the thing, nobody likes to be defined, no particular group who wants to be defined by one or two bad eggs that occasionally come up. I don't want some, some a black person to rob a convenience store tonight, and then tomorrow some black person goes for a job interview and the person holds that against them because they watch the Nightly News.
PAYNE: So, the police department, obviously don't want that either. What he did to them was he smeared them, he smeared them badly, and it's gonna have a long term effect.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, and let's see. I mean, can a sorry like a thoughtful apology -- but I mean, I agree with Charles, it's like, it's not really within his court, he really said what he believes.
GUILFOYLE: So, how hard is it now to try and take that back and smooth it over?
BILA: I think it's impossible for him. I mean, people have been calling for his resignation, I don't think that's realistic, but I understand why. Because, look, his policy for the longest time -- what he ran on backs off exactly what he did. So what's he got to do? Turn around and say, I'm sorry? Are you sorry for all of your policies before? I hope that mayors throughout the country -- let's face it. This is a New York City problem, these things are happening throughout the country. I hope they're looking and political figures -- what some influence are looking and saying, this is not -- this is the exact opposite of what we need to be doing, what de Blasio just did. You need to be unifying, nothing divisive -- there should be no time, no room for divisive rhetoric. When you have this kind of violence going on between community and police, that is the time where politicians need to be stepping up and saying, having no tolerance for that, bridging the gap and of course, if you're a mayor, you have to back up your law enforcement. You have to. That -- law enforcement protects the city. If the city doesn't feel protected by law enforcement and law enforcement doesn't feel protected by the mayor, the whole thing collapses and guess who suffers? Minority communities, people in communities where crime is a huge problem. So, I think he -- he's an example of exactly what not to do and I don't think he can save himself. I'm really worried about New York.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, we don't want to go back in-time. It's like what we talked about earlier to Charles, and Joanne, gets your thoughts.
JOANNE NOSUCHINSKY, GUEST CO-HOST: Yeah, what we're experiencing right now is trickle down hostility. So, the officers are -- police officers are feeling threatened by the federal government, and then minorities are being -- or they feel threatened by police. So, in order to solve this problem, it's -- it's gonna start at the top. The top has to work on it and then it will trickle down. So what we need to see from our leaders in government, especially from de Blasio is that actions are going to speak louder than words. There are amazing no-profits in New York City that worked on fostering communication and understanding between NYPD and minority use. So, he needs to rally behind them, get behind them and push these community leaders to the forefront, so that he gets taken out of the focus a little bit.
BECKEL: But you know the one thing about the --
GUILFOYLE: Good idea.
BECKEL: Before we go too far about the New York City police department, they are the finest police department in the United States, I agree with that.
BECKEL: In 1970s, they were the worst, the most corrupt, the most -- 75 percent of the vice squad was corrupt, on the take.
NOSUCHINSKY: Yeah, you were corrupt in the 1970s.
BECKEL: I was corrupt way before that, darling. But that's not the point.
GUILFOYLE: How about 2014?
BECKEL: I'm not -- I'm not a cop. I may be seriously, there's been a legacy and it's got -- it changed, it did change, to the credit of the New York City police department. But there was a time when it was just brutal. And so, some of these guys --
GUILFOYLE: Bob -- right. But it's been a lot Bob, I think to build the relationships, you know. From the community outward, with the police department, in neighborhoods, community policing -- I want to get in this Commissioner Bratton has some thought us. Say, he said the police feel under attacked by the federal government at the highest levels and Rudy Giuliani thinks the president, among those stoking racial tensions in America, and he's sticking by that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAJOR GARRETT, FACE THE NATION SHOW SUBSTITUTE ANCHOR: You said a while ago, that President Obama contributed to a rhetorical atmosphere about hating American police. You want to recast that or take that back?
RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Oh, not at all. Often when he's talking about police issues, he has Al Sharpton sitting next to him. If you would like to have a poster boy for hating the police, it's Al Sharpton. Who you associate with is part of your rhetoric? If I was talking to you about ending the mafia, as I did in the 1980s or fighting the mafia, and I had Joe Colombo sitting next to me, you would say he was a big hypocrite wouldn't you?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: I don't know. I find it hard to disagree with that point, so let's ask Bob. I'm sure you --
GUILFOYLE: You see it differently.
BECKEL: That was one more disgraceful off the wall. And I like Rudy Giuliani, but that's just going away too far. The President of the United States -- I want somebody who's I be, one example of one thing he said that what's not trying to heal the racial divide in this country. One thing.
BILA: Well, he has --
GUILFOYLE: Why would he were with Al Sharpton?
BILA: Al Sharpton at that time. What's the argument?
BECKEL: Who was said -- so it does mean -- I agree -- you said that you resent me.
BILA: No, but that is somebody that, that Barack Obama thinks is good and solid on race relations.
BECKEL: Yes --
BILA: And he's elevating it and holding him up. He's a divisive thinker (ph)
BECKEL: Whether we don't like Al Sharpton -- I stand second to nobody on this show.
GUILFOYLE: Bob, the association is part of the rhetoric.
BECKEL: I have had a fistfight with Al Sharpton. I understand why you get upset with him. But in the black community, in the black community, they hold him up --
PAYNE: Well, hold on. Hold on, hold on.
BILA: Maybe that's part of the problem. See, look at this Bob.
PAYNE: Nobody in the black community voted Al Sharpton their leader. The media made Al Sharpton.
BECKEL: Well, I --
PAYNE: Nobody in the black community voted for Al Sharpton to be the leader. Let me tell you something, he is an opportunist, he's a phony, and he is a racist.
BECKEL: I'm not.
PAYNE: And -- here's you said, President Obama never said anything, Bob?
BECKEL: Yeah, what did he say?
PAYNE: That's the point, he's the president.
BECKEL: He's got on the air. He said things one time after another.
PAYNE: Let me say you something, he's never said anything, he's allowed things to fester without intervening.
BECKEL: That is -- it is absolutely wrong.
PAYNE: He allows the tea party to be named (ph) racist, because they -- because, disagree with his policies. He's allowing things to fester, he's numbed (ph) so you're.
BECKEL: Did you hear him say what he said in Ferguson? That there was no reason to riot, that this.
PAYNE: Oh God, come on now Bob. Are you serious?
BECKEL: I'm deadly serious.
PAYNE: The President --
BECKEL: I'm deadly serious.
GUILFOYLE: Its rhetoric was better after the facts not before.
BECKEL: Even when it does racism.
PAYNE: No, no, no, because it wasn't the right thing. Honestly, the President of the United States, you see the Ferguson decision coming. First and foremost, you go there and you meet with the police officer involved, you meet with the family involved. And you show some real leadership, you don't give a sound bite at the middle of the night, if things that -- what happened after that?
BECKEL: You don't think.
PAYNE: The place was a riot.
BECKEL: You don't think -- politicize if they want the Ferguson? PAYNE: What's if anything that -- he's the president. Anything he does is politicized.
NOSUCHINSKY: Which is why as, be careful about who your friends are.
PAYNE: It doesn't stop him from golfing at this very second, he's probably on the 18th. So, he's concerned about criticism, he certainly doesn't show it.
BILA: Why would you have that man by your side, though, on -- when you have.
GUILFOYLE: That's the problem.
BILA: Listen. If Barack Obama wants to talk about race relation, this is our first African-American president. I would love to see him out there and let him be that unifying force. He doesn't need Al Sharpton who's an incredibly divisive figure, standing up there, like he's some -- some force that's could bring up everyone together. Everyone, I don't know anyone in the black community that's look to him and feels that he helps matters -- at all. I don't -- I don't know one person.
BILA: That he feels that he helps matters. No, Barack Obama could easily help matters, because he's the President of the United States and not Al Sharpton.
BECKEL: I will tell you one thing, you know Jesse Jackson disappear with the last two weeks.
GUILFOYLE: Well, so. What is that mean?
PAYNE: Well, that's he's just been fading away from a long, long time. But that's a whole different story.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I mean -- yeah, he's on -- Al Sharpton was faking everything.
PAYNE: He was actually to look at everybody (ph) trying to re -- reignite his -- his shake down if you will.
NOSUCHINSKY: I think there's an easy way to get Al Sharpton, you know, out of the public eye. He needs a hobby. I suggest golf. That gets Obama out of the White House, right?
PAYNE: Well, Sharpton has got a couple of great hobbies, he goes at great restaurant and he smokes fine cigar so, -- but while a lot of these kids who do follow him are festering in jails and they're not even sure why, all they know is that someone came in and gave a great speech and stoked their anger. It used be a Del fresco (ph) somewhere in smoking in fine cigars.
GUILFOYLE: Del, Havana Club.
BECKEL: They fester in jail illegally, because they were shoved in there by judicial system.
GUILFOYLE: Bob, you have to have some evidence and facts to support these statements because, I think they fly directly, contradictory to the facts that our justice system.
BECKEL: You and I had this discussion about Ferguson. Do I believe when you say that the evidence before that grand jury was accurate, yes, I do. In the black community in Ferguson, they do not buy it. That's a perception.
BECKEL: They don't buy it. You can argue with them all you want.
GUILFOYLE: I don't know if everybody, I will -- I don't pretend to speak on behalf of the entire black community in Ferguson. I believe in individual thought and I'm sure that there's people that don't feel comfortable expressing their individual opinion because of the hostile nature of the environment there, that's the bottom line. But you know what? We have African-Americans, whites and Asians. Everybody's serving on juries -- and Latinos throughout this country. So I think if you disagree with the outcome, then they're all matter, (ph) these people are racist, they're all the black ones. It's like --
GUILFOYLE: There's no outcome that seems to be good enough unless there's one that's in accord with your political views.
BECKEL; It is a question of perception.
GUILFOYLE: Alright, we have even more to talk about. It's just getting going, turn it up. Despite Obama's rhetoric about race still being an issue in America, he actually thinks that things have gotten better under his watch. And he told NPR in a new interview quote, "I actually think the United States is probably in its day-to-day interactions les racially divided. I assure you, from the perspective of African-Americans or Latinos in poor communities who have been dealing with this all their lives, they wouldn't suggest somehow that it's worse now than it was 10, 15 or 20 years ago." We should note that he did that interview just two days before the assassination of Officer Ramos and Liu, Charles.
PAYNE: Let's get to -- was the real -- one of the big real problems here and its economics. And I got to tell you something, what's happened with the black family over the last decade, particularly since the great recession, their assets, their net worth, the values of their homes, completely decimated. I mean, that is a horrible statement that the president made, it completely unattached, there's just no way at all that he can honestly feel that way, even before those assassinations, that in his heart of hearts that black people believe that they're better off than they were 10 years ago. I just don't -- I just don't see it. It certainly not their economically and -- a lot of other things you know, from their family structure and everything else.
PAYNE: It's just doesn't --
GUILFOYLE: I think that's where some of this anger and the protests, and the unrest are coming from because people are upset at their core (ph) of where they see their circumstance in their live and their family, or whether they can get a job. I think it actually has less to do with a racial issue than it does to where -- where are they are sitting right now in their life?
PAYNE: And the problem is we, generally throw these things at the doorsteps, but the president -- and when the president's response is, well, it would work if it wasn't for those mean white guys.
PAYNE: On the GOP side who don't want you to do better. And it's been hit that.
BECKEL: He never said that.
PAYNE: He's the President. Obama has said many times.
BECKEL: It's true with many ways, but he didn't say it.
PAYNE: I don't know why -- I don't know -- but Bob.
PAYNE: How could the president said many times I don't know why they don't like me. I don't know why they go against all of my bills.
BECKEL: That's a little different of what you've said.
PAYNE: But we know what he was saying.
BILA: And polling the gates that.
BILA: When you poll people and you ask them if race relations have improved, and we've seen this on your metrication (ph) from different polls. People say no, they haven't. Because I think many people have the expectation that the first African-American president was going to usher in some leadership that would help on this matter, whether that's justified or not, that they thought that was gonna happen. But I think they're really disappointed and when he speaks up on issues as I said before, Bob.
BILA: Ferguson or what not. I don't think they're highly impressed. I think they expect more leadership from the president on this issue, something that would bring the country together.
BECKEL: The one thing that he can do a much better job is on black families, there's no questions about it but, when you take polls and the aftermath of Ferguson and Staten Island, you're gonna get negative ratings.
BILA: But you know why?
BECKEL: So it would probably gonna take.
BILA: He would have to talk about school choice. He would have to talk about economic freedom, he would have to talk about things that he doesn't like, because when you elevate black families, you elevate Hispanic families and white families, will elevate everybody, so he doesn't like those policies.
BECKEL: Probably those families don't stay together.
BILA: He doesn't like those policies.
GUILFOYLE: But that's a larger issue. You can't blame it on cops, and to be dismissed it.
BECKEL: And you can't blame it on Obama either.
GUILFOYLE: And say it, oh, it's based on -- you know, racism here, race -- I mean, look at the NYPD, or 50 percent minority, great representation.
GUILFOYLE: Phenomenal police department.
GUILFOYLE: Leading by example, and what are we doing? People are tearing them down. Joanne.
NOSUCHINSKY: Well, and he's blaming it on the media, a lot of it. But I think if anything the media is making us more racially sensitive. Which I think can be a very good thing, because, 15-year-old knows about, you know, culture appropriation now and micro aggressions. And I think that's a good thing because again, he loves communications and dialogues and that's what we're having.
BECKEL: What is micro aggression mean?
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, that's gonna be during the commercial break.
PAYNE: That's a 15-year-old.
GUILFOYLE: Joanne is going to educate Bob, one-on-one tutoring. Coming up - - you know what's all in the brunette? I know. Another plane vanishes in the skies over Asia. We're gonna bring you the very latest developments on the search for AirAsia flight 8501, that's next. Stay with us.
PAYNE: Welcome back. We turn now to the search for yet another missing Malaysian jet liner. At least 15 ships and nearly a dozen aircraft were out today looking for AirAsia flight 8501. The plane vanished yesterday morning with 162 people on board while it was on its way to Singapore from Indonesia. The U.S. is now actually considering ways to help after being asked for assistance. The jet lost contact after the pilot requested to increase its altitude to avoid rough weather. This is of course the second Malaysian airliner to disappear this year. We don't know whether pilot error is to blame in either case. But one aviation channel suggests some pilots in this region may not be getting all the training that they need.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MILES O'BRIEN, AVIATION ANALYST: These airlines have a difficult time frankly, filling cockpits with qualified pilots. In the U.S. we have minimums and most to the major airlines exceed the minimums when it comes to training standards. You have a fast strolling weekend that's tremendous pressure to meet the band (ph) at any time you have that kind of pressure in addition to the economic pressures to, you know, be competitive it's going to be a push against safety, the two just do not go in the same direction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PAYNE: Alright Bob, a lot of buzz words there, the -- push for profits, suggesting not only the pilots, but maybe a lot of pressure in the company. Don't delay any of these flights, we don't want to get people any money back, push them out, push them out -- push them out. What do you make of the whole thing because of this? It's really frustrating at it?
BECKEL: First of all the airlines have had one of the best years they have had in a long, long time, correct? More and more people are flying. Let's keep in mind as we keep going to these crashes, and for certain network actually, I come as bought one of this plane to show it's everyday on the air but, the fact of the matter is 50,000 flights commercial take off and land in this country alone everyday and nothing happens. The other thing is this airbus 320, an airbus 330, the France plane from South America to Paris went down in a bad storm, and they never got a distress call either. My guess is -- and I'm only guessing with this is that this guy ran into terrible weather and the plane wasn't able to take it -- take the pressure of it. And so, these things happen, I mean -- and the other one, Air Malaysia -- who knows what happened on that. But I think we've got a little careful about scaring the general flying public.
GUILFOYLE: I don't know about that.
BECKEL: When for the most -- most of the case is amazing.
PAYNE: To your point there's few crashes since the 1922 although, the actual fatality is now at the highest point since 2005.
PAYNE: So they are packed to more people on these planes.
BECKEL: But they aren't true.
PAYNE: But -- but they are the kind of thing though Kimberly, to where -- it's not about scaring the public, but this is something people who want to know because, if you go down in a plane for the most part, you don't survive.
GUILFOYLE: Alright. That yeah, that you can -- OK, put on the vest, put on the -- it's like, you know, go down the floppy glide (ph), who -- who does that? I mean, it's.
PAYNE: Now, I will say in America.
PAYNE: We've got an amazing track record, but something feels wrong.
GUILFOYLE: Well, ray (ph)
PAYNE: What the heck is going on.
GUILFOYLE: Well, I don't know. Maybe I think it is, more an -- you know, emergency training for pilots and I would like to see better satellite detection for when we lose -- you know, track of a plane so that we have the answers to what went on. Right now, they're trying to find this so they can locate the black boxes, what's really disturbing is, we still don't know where that Malaysian flight is, right? That hasn't been recovered. We still don't have any answer there. So yes, we know that there was bad weather here but, it takes a lot for a plane to drop out in the air, it's usually never just one factor, there could be some kind of mechanical issue.
GUILFOYLE: And then you got troubleshoot. Because they have all these backups built in to the plane's system, so then you also have human error, so whether someone tend -- you know, adequately troubleshoot a situation in the air, that there is an emergency, which is under high pressure. So I think a lot more training in that regard would probably be very helpful to save lives.
PAYNE: There's no doubt that you gonna -- I think that's gonna be the case, when -- we figure it all out, Jo. Here's the thing, at 32,000 feet, they sent out a call, we want to go to 38,000 feet.
PAYNE: At five minutes later, they off radar. It seems like they probably were already in trouble but, here's the thing a lot of people are asking. If you look at that weather map, why did they let them go off -- take off in the first place, why didn't the pilot just simply make a command decision if they were in trouble.
NOSUCHINSKY: Apparently in these areas storms can develop pretty quickly.
PAYNE: It's still wasn't a surprise that maybe.
PAYNE: It will be bad weather.
NOSUCHINSKY: But there were other planes flying as well because, his request to go higher to 38,000 was denied because.
NOSUCHINSKY: There was another plane above. So, planes are doing this a lot, and maybe that's the issue that we need to tackle. Should we not have that many airplanes travelling in that kind of weather.
BILA: I think we're searching for a common theme, because we wanna fix the problem, but I don't know that there is. I mean, I think -- I'm with Bob, I think these are really individual circumstances. We can talk about emergency training and we can talk about prevention, but I think sometimes these things really do happen. Yes, we need to analyze it, and yeas we need to investigate, but I don't know that we're gonna find a common theme, that if we fix that one thing, all of a sudden this isn't going to happen anymore. I think this is just part of life, unfortunately. (ph)
BECKEL: I just need (ph) terribly afraid to fly and somebody once said to me, (inaudible) Bob, if you're at 32,000 feet, and a plane goes down, it's a fate. I said, yeah, what about the guy next to me, what if he's been a bad son of a bitch.
BECKEL: And he goes down. I mean the rest of that wouldn't.
PAYNE: And -- to that point Bob, you know what? People who don't have a fear of flying, when you hit rough turbulence, you kind to start to think, what the heck?
NOSUCHINSKY: But listen, pilots want to get home to their families.
PAYNE: Everybody does. But, we -- I can't wait to get some answers on this. Ahead on THE FIVE, a contestant makes wheel of fortune history with only one letter on the board and one very wild guess, stay tuned for an incredible solve, that's coming up.
BILA: When the 114th Congress gavels into session in eight days, the GOP will control both chambers. And some might predict big things from Republicans in 2015 and beyond. President Obama, however, is here to remind his political opponents where the buck stops, at least when it comes to his legislative legacy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I haven't used the veto pen very often since I've been in office, partly because legislation that I objected to was typically blocked in the Senate even though the House -- Republicans took over the House.
Now I suspect there are going to be some times where I've got to pull that pen out, and I'm going to defend gains that we've made in healthcare. I'm going to defend gains that we've made on environment and clean air and clean water.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BILA: If the president singlehandedly makes Democrats the party of no, if more political gridlock in our future?
Charles, I'm going to talk to you about strategy, because Democrats just lost big in midterm elections, and here President Obama, the great compromiser, supposedly, is coming out and saying, "I have a veto pen." That's the first thing he's saying. He's not -- he's not really interested in compromising. He's saying, "I'm going to block stuff. I'm going to block what I don't like." Good strategy or awful strategy?
PAYNE: It's an awful strategy. There's been threats, threats, threats, threats, threats throughout the entire process. It's interesting, though. You said it makes the Democrats the party of no.
You know, you can argue now that they've been masking being the party of no for a long time. Because a lot of bills, and the president admitted as much, haven't hit his desk. A lot of things the American public don't understand haven't come to light. Now they will. And if you want to veto all of these bills, if you don't want to compromise, it's not the Republicans you're threatening. You're threatening your own party, because they just had one heck of a loss in November.
Whoever may want to run for office the next time around, it's probably going to put some pressure on the president. It's not the Republicans. It's the American people and his own party who should be really worried about these threats.
BILA: Kimberly, what should Republicans do? Because I want to see proactive Republicans. I want to see them put some things on his desk that he has a really hard time vetoing. I want him to have to explain why he is vetoing things that are pro-growth, pro-jobs. What should they do?
GUILFOYLE: Absolutely. Well, there's no reason why they should wait. They should actually push forward on this, because they have the momentum. They have the will of the people on their side. And you know what? To those who have been give much, much is expected.
So now is the time to show not only why voters made the right decision by putting them in and making that fundamental change, but why voters should continue forward in 2016.
This is a little bit of a litmus test. There's a lot on the line. The president's already telling you exactly what he's going to do. Let him be the obstructionist. Let him be the veto guy. Let him use the pen. But put forth something compelling.
The Republican Party can't just be the party that's against things. You have to say, "Look, let's push through. Let's do the pipeline. Let's do things that make sense," right, that actually everyone can support, in fact push forward immediately the things that have bipartisan support.
BILA: One of the key issues, I think -- I'm going to get to you, Bob -- immigration. And Lindsay Graham, recently, he said, quote, "If we don't at least make a down-payment on solving the problem and rationally dealing with the 11 million people in the country illegally, if we become the party of self-deportation in 2015 and 2016, then the chance of winning the White House, I think, is almost nonexistent." How do you think Republicans should approach the issue of immigration. Jeb Bush, leading Republican candidate right now for 2016, pro-immigration reform. How do they handle this?
BECKEL: Well, let's look at the demographics issue here. The fact is the Republicans cannot win this country if they don't have the Hispanic vote. Cannot; it's impossible.
Now, the question about Jeb Bush, the reason he's scared me from the very beginning is, this guy is very credible and he speaks Spanish. His brother did 45 percent of the Hispanic vote. That would be a real problem for us.
And by the way, the party of no, I mean, this is the same -- the new majority leader, Mitch McConnell, has famously said in 2010, "My job is to ensure that Barack Obama doesn't get elected for a second term." That's the party of no, is the party of a bunch of white dudes that have nothing else to stay.
GUILFOYLE: All right. You know what? The Republican Party is not a party of white dudes. That is -- that's about race...
GUILFOYLE: Bob, that's not a nice statement. It's also borders on...
BECKEL: It's the statement I make.
PAYNE: I tell you what, though. Wait until you see -- first of all, you should see how many nonwhite dudes were elected in November under the GOP ticket.
BECKEL: There were. There were.
PAYNE: And wait until you see how many nonwhite dudes are going to run for president under the GOP ticket.
BECKEL: And I agree with that. I think it makes a great side story.
GUILFOYLE: And women.
BECKEL: But let's face it, before that -- before that it was a party of, in the Congress, of white men. Now leaving that aside...
BILA: But it's not anymore.
BECKEL: ... listen, here's something that needs to get done. Obama's putting a gamut out his veto pen. He doesn't want to veto everything. They are going to get a deal on trade. They're going to get a deal on tax, and there will be an immigration deal, because the Republicans need it. They need it much worse than Obama does.
As far as Democrats are concerned, we hope that the Republicans continue to use...
GUILFOYLE: And medical device tax.
BECKEL: ... all their jingoistic words about Hispanics, and we win two- thirds of them again, and we take the state -- the country. So the Republicans need that; Obama needs it. He's already broken with them on trade, with his own party on trade. And I think there is going to be a tax, corporate tax deal put together.
BILA: I want to ask you, Joanne, about Jeb Bush, because recent CNN poll has Jeb Bush at the top. Immigration may be a part of that. Jeb Bush is going to face a lot of trouble from conservatives. I don't know how well he's going to do getting out of a primary. But what do you think about that? Do you think he should make immigration a key issue? That's an issue that he's -- that even the conservatives have basically said this is part of the reason we don't want to vote for you.
NOSUCHINSKY: I think -- I think it will help him with people on the left, getting the support there. And I don't think it will hurt him on the race. These polls have shown that it's not a big issue for people, the fact that he doesn't lie completely on the right on that issue.
I think Jeb Bush looks great. He's lost a little bit of weight. I definitely think he's getting ready. And I think, so long as the GOP does not stonewall Obama in everything he wants to do; if they do a little bit of give and take, then that can't be used as ammunition in 2016. And that's something we have to be careful of.
BILA: I think Bob's wrong. I think Obama is going to (UNINTELLIGIBLE) them a little bit more.
BECKEL: History tells us that we have one party in control of the White House, and one in control of the Congress, some of the best legislations has been passed.
BILA: We're going to see if you're right.
All right. Well, we all know who the person of the year is and the most fascinating, but who is the most admired of 2014? Find out next.
NOSUCHINSKY: Is there a person you admire most in this world? The results are in from Gallup's annual survey. And the majority of Americans have once again picked Hillary Clinton and President Obama as the woman and man they admire most in 2014.
Clinton's retained the title for 13 straight years. She's followed by Oprah, Malala, Condi and Mrs. Obama. This is President Obama's seventh straight year topping the list. He's followed by the pope, Bill Clinton, Reverend Billy Graham and George W. Bush.
OK, Charles. What do you make of this Gallup poll? Like, do we really need this?
PAYNE: It feels like -- I thought "People" magazine did this poll. That's what I heard.
GUILFOYLE: No, that's sexiest.
PAYNE: No wonder Hillary won.
BECKEL: That's the one I won.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
PAYNE: But really, it's like, do they do these polls in high schools? I mean, are they really speaking to adults? It just -- it kind of -- it doesn't speak very well of the American public that they have a handful of people that they know in politics that they're supposed to admire and they kind of toss them out there.
NOSUCHINSKY: Well, Jedediah, is that the thing? Are these just the most recognizable names...
NOSUCHINSKY: ... not necessarily admirable?
BILA: Yes. Because it's like Hillary and then it was Oprah, so it's, like, names that everyone knows.
GUILFOYLE: Like the queue cards.
BILA: I just don't understand the Hillary, I mean. And you know what's really interesting? Obama is at the top of the list, but his approval numbers are so terrible when you poll people.
GUILFOYLE: They don't match up.
BILA: So it doesn't match up.
NOSUCHINSKY: I don't really care about Gallup. No offense to Mr. Gallup and the family. But we're going to go around the circle and see what "The Five" think. So this is "The Five's" most admirable people. Kimberly, starting with you.
GUILFOYLE: Mine, for sure, the men and women that serve the United States military and armed forces, hands down. So proud of them, admire them so much and the sacrifice that they make day in and day for very little pay or recognition, only to come home to a Veterans Affairs Administration that is a mess.
Now, I'll tell you this, this weekend, I saw the movie "American Sniper," and I had the pleasure to meet Chris Kyle. A great guy; his wife, amazing, too. And a very nice military film. And you saw what he did when he came back. He actually spent time working with veterans that were suffering from post-traumatic and other issues that had been injured.
Anyway, so God bless all of them and to the families, because they are part of the people who give and serve to our country.
NOSUCHINSKY: Excellent choice. Bob.
BECKEL: I would say mine would be the Doctors and Nurses Without Borders who went to West Africa and worked with Ebola patients. I think it takes an enormous amount of courage. And my other choice is Charles.
NOSUCHINSKY: Charles. Well, then, Charles, what about you? You don't have to say Bob. Vote for yourself.
PAYNE: You know what? I think both of these are great. There's a guy, though, out there, and a guy named Alfred Mann. He was born in 1925. His father was a grocer. He started 17 companies; he's a billionaire. He's given away $300 million. This year he had two companies: one, after 20 years, found a way to get -- FDA finally approved the inhaled insulin, which is going to help millions and millions of people.
PAYNE: And he has another company that went public this year, called Second Sight; will bring sight to the blind. This is what American entrepreneurship is all about.
GUILFOYLE: God bless him.
PAYNE: This is not just stuff that's going to help people in this country, but around the world. And it's why people out there should never give up on this country, no matter who's the president or how bad things get.
BILA: All right. Jedediah, can you top that?
BILA: Well, I was going to pick my parents. But none of you know them, so I can't. Hi, Mom and Dad.
NOSUCHINSKY: Oh, you can.
BILA: But I picked Pope Francis, and the reason is that he challenges bureaucracy. I think he's a real reformer. He's not afraid to point out hypocrisy within the church bureaucracy. And he's not afraid to meddle in contentious issues: he talks about gay marriage. He's really not afraid to upset the waters in order to say what he thinks.
BECKEL: He's not afraid to go after the Muslims when they kill Christians, which is what I like to see.
NOSUCHINSKY: OK. Now for my pick, it's really the most admirable person. It is Greg Gutfeld.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.
NOSUCHINSKY: He is an advocate for animal rights, especially unicorns. He promotes literacy by writing lots of books that he promotes on these shows.
BECKEL: Every day..
NOSUCHINSKY: and he paid me an awesome amount of money to pick him. So Greg, thank you. I think we all can thank you.
GUILFOYLE: Way to stimulate the economy.
BECKEL: This is -- Greg is the Woody Allen of this show. He never goes out of his neighborhood, and he goes to the same bar. He has the same set of anxieties.
GUILFOYLE: Drinks the same red wine.
NOSUCHINSKY: He's a hero to America.
All right. We've got some football to talk about next. The playoff schedule is set as Super Bowl 2015 nears. And it's Black Monday. Is your favorite coach in or out next season? Find out coming up.
(MUSIC: TOM PETTY "THERE AIN'T NO EASY WAY OUT")
BECKEL: Finally, a song I recognize.
Yesterday was the conclusion of the NFL's regular season, and the playoffs are set. Twelve teams will vie for a chance to go to the Super Bowl with favorites Seattle and New England leading the pack.
Today is also known as Black Monday around the league, as some of the coaches who didn't lead their teams to the playoffs will not be around in 2015. Among them, Rex Ryan of the Jets, big loss, and Jim Harbaugh, a surprise, of the 49ers. Also fired was Chicago Bears head coach Mike Trestman and the Atlanta Falcons coach Mike Smith. It is a short tenure, is it, though, Charles, in the NFL if you don't win?
PAYNE: It is absolutely. The stakes are high. And listen, it's probably also in many ways one of the greatest examples of meritocracy. It's pretty simple: you win, you keep your job; you lose, you don't.
Now, the Harbaugh situation makes it unique in the sense that he's been extraordinarily successful. But when it became known, for whatever reason, that he wasn't going to stay, that team imploded. They gave away, two weeks ago, a lead that you did not think ever they were capable, even when they were a bad team of giving away. So something went wrong there between him and the owners.
But for the most part, it's all about merit. And if you win, and you can enjoy it, you'll make millions. And if you don't win, someone else is going to come in.
BECKEL: Here's a wager. Harbaugh will be picked up in a week.
PAYNE: He already has a gig.
GUILFOYLE: We talked about that.
BECKEL: Oh, he does?
PAYNE: Yes, $8 million a year, Michigan.
BECKEL: That's his salary? I didn't know that.
GUILFOYLE: The Niners are totally going to regret that. Jim Harbaugh was an incredible, incredible coach for the 49ers: three consecutive NFC titles and one trip to the Super Bowl. Whoa, I mean, come on.
BECKEL: Does anyone know who owns San Francisco?
GUILFOYLE: Well, yes, the Yorks and the DeBartolos.
But the problem is they said, "Oh, he's known for being kind of difficult." So what? There's so many great coaches in NFL football have been a little bit rough around the edges, like Bill Parcells. And then Rex Ryan, are you going to talk about him?
BECKEL: I love Rex Ryan.
GUILFOYLE: Great defensive mind.
BILA: Went online for foot fetish videos.
BECKEL: There you go.
BILA: Look at you, the expert.
GUILFOYLE: I love football.
BILA: I did not know this.
BECKEL: The 49ers she's an expert on.
BILA: Kimberly Guilfoyle can do it all, man. You learn something. I'm just curious, though...
BECKEL: She danced in the Gay Pride Parade in San Francisco.
BILA: Oh, my gosh.
GUILFOYLE: This is -- this is where your mind...
BILA: This is why you don't let him -- your mike's supposed to be...
BECKEL: OK. Who do you like? Who do you like?
BILA: Who do I like? Well, I called my dad, if you're going to ask that, and he said that the Seattle Seahawks were going to do it again. So Daddy, thank you. I'm going to say that.
GUILFOYLE: You say it, Jedediah.
BILA: I'm just curious, though, if a team -- if a team gets rid of a head coach and a general manager at the same time, what does that do to the team? Does that have an impact? Or does that...
BECKEL: Well, yes.
PAYNE: For the most part, the team already sucks, so it doesn't really matter.
BILA: Doesn't have that big of an impact?
PAYNE: Well, you're 4 and 12, it doesn't -- we don't really worry about esprit de corps too much, you know?
BECKEL: Yes. Right, exactly.
GUILFOYLE: You've got to have great players to be able to wins games. I think that's been a challenge for, like, Rex Ryan, at least. Even though he's a great...
PAYNE: I think he's an amazing defensive-minded coach.
PAYNE: And I don't know that he's ever really put it together on the offensive side.
BECKEL: Joanne, you are our resident expert here on football.
NOSUCHINSKY: I am.
BECKEL: Could you tell us who's going to be in the Super Bowl?
NOSUCHINSKY: Easy, it's going to be to the Broncos and the Hawks. The Blackhawks. No, I have no idea. I'm just very happy that this year...
BILA: The Hawks. I love it!
NOSUCHINSKY: During playoffs and the Super Bowl, I will not be bartending, so really that is the greatest gift of all.
BECKEL: You know, it's amazing you would say that. I happen to agree with you, about the Seattle Seahawks, but I think the Denver Broncos are going to upset the Patriots again.
GUILFOYLE: Do you really?
BECKEL: I do. I do. I think there's going to be a repeat of that.
BECKEL: And I went to the last one.
PAYNE: I'd love to see Peyton get one more. But I think he blew it last year, and they just look a little rough.
Seahawks have momentum. New England, I hate them; my daughter loves them.
BILA: Oh, wow. That's good though, when you watch it.
PAYNE: It is. The last time they lost in the Super Bowl, she was only -- you know, she had tears in her eyes.
GUILFOYLE: That's a tough team to beat.
BECKEL: The NFL needs a break to have a good Super Bowl this year. They've had a rough year,
"One More Thing"...
BECKEL: ... is up next.
GUILFOYLE: And we're back, and it's time now for "One More Thing." Bob, what do you have to contribute?
BECKEL: What I have to contribute is -- this I dedicate to Charles, the naysayer of the FOX Business Channel. I want to just point out that unemployment rate last month was 5.8 percent. A year before, it was 7 percent. We added 320,000 jobs in one month. And more than that, we had a quarterly growth rate of 5.0, the biggest in the world. And the Republicans have flaunted. The Obama recovery is back; it's strong. We're happy. It's a little late, but it's there. And they have nothing to bitch about, but they'll find something.
GUILFOYLE: All right. Bob has abused the "One More Thing" protocol and will be severely punished later in the corner, and he might like it. Charles, do you have a quick rejoinder before I go to Jedediah?
PAYNE: Oh, yes. Well, Rex Ryan said the same thing when he went and said, "We won our last game, but we're still our record is 4 and 12." The track record is ugly, ugly, ugly.
GUILFOYLE: I love your comparison. Jedediah.
BILA: All right. Well, if you love "Wheel of Fortune" -- I don't, I'm terrible at it -- but I have an amazing clip for you. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAT SAJAK, HOST, "WHEEL OF FORTUNE": We'll do another toss-up. This one is worth $2,000, and the category is character.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The lone ranger?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm never going to do this again. I'm just going to keep -- I'm going to keep buzzing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BILA: How amazing is that? Let me -- and let me correct myself. I don't love "Wheel of Fortune," because I'm terrible at it. But my mom is totally amazing. She totally could have done that.
GUILFOYLE: OK. So we like "Wheel of Fortune." It's kind of fun.
All right. So I've got a really good "One More Thing" today. And something positive for President Obama. Going to make Bob very happy. So two Army soldiers supposed to get married in Hawaii at the Kaneohe Klipper golf course, OK, on Sunday on the 16th hole. But they were called and told, "Hey, you've got to move your wedding, because President Obama's got to play golf." I know that sounds crazy, right?
However, President Obama did the right thing. I don't think he was aware of that situation. When he became aware of it, he called them, wished them all the best. They're so excited, and they're delighted that the president gave them the call. So I think that's pretty nice.
BECKEL: That is. Thank you.
GUILFOYLE: Good on you.
BECKEL: Good job. It was nice.
GUILFOYLE: Good on you. OK.
NOSUCHINSKY: Survey's in. The worst celebrity neighbor of 2014 is? Anyone guess? Anyone guess? Justin Bieber.
BILA: I was just going to say that.
NOSUCHINSKY: I think that it's well-deserved, with all the partying and the eggs. Although I wouldn't ask for flour from him.
BECKEL: He just got an airplane. You know that? He got an airplane.
GUILFOYLE: I would not want to live next to him.
NOSUCHINSKY: I think that the best neighbor is no neighbor.
GUILFOYLE: OK. Charles.
PAYNE: Real quick, my Christmas I spent with my grandkids for the first time, 1-year-old Jonathan, the coolest dude in the world. There he is. My 2-year-old Cassidy, the kindest heart. There she is with our three Yorkies.
And also this Christmas, my wife celebrated by lighting the menorah for the 22-year-old girl who donated her heart and kept her alive.
GUILFOYLE: Amazing. God bless her. That is so incredible.
PAYNE: So it was a beautiful Christmas. A reminder to celebrate life, yes.
GUILFOYLE: That's great.
BECKEL: You're a grandfather?
GUILFOYLE: OK. Real quick, if you haven't had enough of me -- maybe you have -- you can check me out on Greta tonight. I'm in for my buddy, 7 p.m. Eastern.
We've had certainly a great time here today. Thanks, everyone, for being here.
BECKEL: And thank you, nice guests.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, they're amazing. We'll have to have you back.
BILA: Go on.
GUILFOYLE: Set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." Please watch the New Year's Eve show, whatever else you do. Keep it on the Fox News Channel. That's it for us, because what's next, Bob?
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