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The Five

Should cop-killer and other fugitives have been part of US deal with Cuba?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 18, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Really? I didn't know that. Hello, everyone. I'm Greg Gutfeld along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling and she slaloms on a snow cone, it's Dana Perino. This is "The Five."

So I hear President Obama maybe going to Cuba. I was thinking if you're going to go, maybe you could bring me something back? No, not cigars. No rum, no plantains. How about her?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

AARON T. FORD, SPECIAL AGENT IN CHARGE, NEWARK: I'm honored to stand here today, alongside the New Jersey State Police, the New Jersey Attorney General's Office and United States Marshall for the district of New Jersey, to announce the addition of Joanne Chesimard to the FBI's most wanted terrorist list.

While living openly and freely in Cuba, she continues to maintain and promote her terrorist ideology.

Joanne Chesimard is a domestic terrorist who murdered a law enforcement officer -- execution style.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

GUTFELD: Chesimard executed State Trooper Werner Foerster then was granted asylum in Cuba. But she is one of 80-plus American fugitives in Cuba: Murders, hijackers, cop killers, including the scum who killed State Trooper Robert Rosenblum.

See, unlike North Korea, Cuba is a jewel of the left, because both adore Marxist thugs: Those who failed at life but excel at taking it. Do you think that occurred to our president or did he decide to normalize because -- you know:

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Because it's the right thing to do for the country.

Plus, it's just fair and it's the right thing to do.

It was ultimately the right thing to do.

I can persuade the American people that it's the right thing to do.

This is the right thing to do for our economy.

And we do that because it's the right thing to do?

We are making these changes because it is the right thing to do.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

GUTFELD: He says that about everything. It's a sweet refrain, but one that fails to say why you reward a regime that torments people and harbors ghouls. Why not demand their return? Are you afraid to hurt feelings? But as with golf, Obama loves to play, even as he loses. He's like a kid in a casino mindlessly pulling on slot machine levers while mom and dad lose their shirt to the men in green holding the cigars.

And as for those saying our commerce will bring an end to Cuba's charm, that's easy to say when you aren't living on scraps, turning tricks for coddled celebrities. Someone else's misery is never quaint. But maybe normalization will finally stop these celebrities from flying to pits like Cuba, only to be shown singing children and maggot-free bread. Propaganda tours for Reds, gobble up gullible stars because where there are commies there are commie butt-kissers.

Cuba treated Cubans poorly, not because it had to, but for belief. Che made them slay. The rule of thumb with totalitarians: The people under that thumb suffer. And its fans always find the thumb more appealing than the bodies underneath.

So K.G.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Yeah.

GUTFELD: You're a prosecutor.

GUILFOYLE: You got it.

GUTFELD: Why can't -- why can't America demand the return of a cop killer or actually two?

GUILFOYLE: Why can't they? I mean, out of the 80 criminals that Cuba is harboring, why don't they give us those two? I mean, I don't think this was such a stretch to be able to make this part of the negotiation and insist on it. Say, this is like draw a red line, right?

GUTFELD: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: We want these two back. I mean, certainly on the FBI most wanted list, this woman Joanne Chesimard, why don't we have her back right now? Perhaps, it's not too late. It can be -- I think utilized in the further ongoing negotiations with Cuba to say if you want to increase diplomatic relations, you want us to ever reduce these restrictions further -- this is what we're going to insist on. And I think it's a good bargain and one that they should observe. Especially now, they even have the -- you pope getting involved.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: The pope was helpful perhaps, some say instrumental in negotiating the release of Alan gross so hopefully, he can ask for this, too, because these crimes should not go unprosecuted.

GUTFELD: You know, Bob, I would be more -- you know, rah, rah, rah over the -- this normalization. If I didn't feel that, President Obama thinks there's no merit in any of our previous oppositions, that our adversarial - - adversarial relationship was valid. I think he always thought that that was a mistake.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Well, first of all, can I just say that not all the left is in love with Marxist as you said in your opening -- so, I know why you do it.

GUTFELD: I know you're required.

BECKEL: I know why you do it. The other thing about -- you know, Cuba make -- should have given these people up. We don't have any relation, we don't have -- no extradition treaty with them. The other thing is that, it was over 50 years ago when John Kennedy put sanctions on Cuba, and directly linked those sanctions with their relations with Russia. Russian with the USSR then, they no longer are supplying Cuba with the oil, they need Argentina is still trying to do that, but they're losing money. So right now, if there ever was a time to do this is, is when the USSR -- with Russia and Argentina have the lowest influence with Cuba. And I think it's the right thing to do.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: It's Venezuela.

GUILFOYLE: Venezuela.

BECKEL: Venezuela, excuse me.

BOLLING: Right, right.

GUTFELD: That -- I mean, basically, what you're saying -- and Eric, you know this more than anybody. They're only doing this because their only friend left is crumbling, Venezuela. It's all about oil.

BOLLING: Right. Well, Russia and.

GUUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: Venezuela.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Iran?

BOLLING: And Iran. It is about.

PERINO: Iran is a space.

BOLLING: Is all about -- it is all about oil. But -- so, your point is awesomely taken that these are some bad people that Cuba is harboring, but maybe, -- you know, normalizing, normalizing, not has normalize -- normalizing. Maybe the ongoing debate can happen. Maybe we can get those people back. Maybe unprosecuted those criminals.

BECKLE: That's true.

BOLLING: For what they've done here. And I look at -- look. I took a lot of heat for saying I like the idea of normalizing with Cuba. But it's 11 million new customers for our farming industry, our agribusiness. $358 million right now that they buying from us. It could be $3.5 billion easily, it could easily multiply -- multiple it -- multiply by a tenfold. And -- you know, we talked a little bit on Twitter last -- I read your email, I think last night, Greg, about -- so what if there's a McDonald's there? So what if there's a KFC there? A lot of people saying don't ruin Havana with KFC and the gangs. But you know what? That will help Cubans.

GUTFELD: Yeah, exactly.

BOLLING: I have jobs.

GUTFELD: Yeah. Yeah. What about you, Dana? You know, I was surprised that the Washington Post editorial board slammed the president over this. You call this an undeserved -- they called this underserved bailout.

PEIRNO: Underserved bailout. Yes. I wrote that down, too.

GUTFELD: Well, good for you.

(CROSSTALK)

PEIRNO: Jackson Diehl and Fred Hiatt of the Washington Post editorial board, I think are some of the strongest freedom fighters that we have in commentary today. So I wasn't that surprised with them. There are -- lots of mixed feelings about this. I am concerned with the economic argument by saying that it's going to help Americans. Because, what we really should be carry -- worried about is, are you going to help the Cubans? So, if there is a McDonald's that opens up let's say in the next ten years. I hope that those people that end up working there, get paid with dollars that tourists use, rather than getting paid with pesos which is what's happens now. If you go to a hotel in Cuba right now, you would pay in dollars. They're all owned by the state. The state takes that money and they pay workers in pesos, which are almost worthless.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: So, I think if we see any normalization in the future but that should be a precondition, and I think that Marco Rubio, the senator from Florida, with his powerful position on the foreign relations committee, will be able to help make that happen. The reforms will be very late in coming, if we don't press on it. So I think that's why the Washington Post said, that the president didn't do a very good job of getting a good deal here.

GUILFOYLE: Can I say Dana makes a great point, because we have incredible leverage and influence especially with the way that we can really impact Cuba and the economy and some of things Eric have touched on. We should use that leverage. We shouldn't be afraid to utilize it and put it on the table and demand that some of these changes come about. Because, then it's not just about dollars for the U.S. but it's about making a meaningful impact than standing for something. There should be preconditions. We can't just turn the blind eye for it and take the cash. We have a larger, more -- you know global responsibility.

BECKEL: Getting your point about the Washington Post, it has been very strong on the Cuban sanctions going back to Ben Bradlee and his relationship with Kennedy, one. Two, we have other countries. We have diplomatic relations that are harboring United States fugitives. Now, we don't close embassies down. In Russia, we don't do it in Saudi Arabia. They keep people who have broken the United States law. So, I mean, you can't have a double standard here.

PERINO: I love.

GUTFELD: Besides -- OK. Group (ph) though. I don't know

PERINO: Exactly. But also -- you know, one of the favorite responses as somebody who would support President Obama's actions yesterday is that, well, there's hypocrisy in our policy, right? There's hypocrisy that we would have relations with China or Vietnam but not with Cuba. Why don't we change that? But last week when we were talking about the hypocrisy of being against Enhanced Interrogation Techniques, but be willing to do drones which kill people to (inaudible). You couldn't talk about hypocrisy last week. But all of a sudden, we can talk about hypocrisy.

BECKEL: Well you, it's apples and oranges are. I'm mean, look, you're talking to.

PERINO: No, it's not.

BECKEL: Yes, it is.

PERINO: Well, hypocrisy is hypocrisy.

BECKEL: Well, OK. If you want to put it under a rubric, fine. But today.

GUILFOYLE: The apples and apples. BECKEL: But there is -- the fact of the matter.

PERINO: True.

BECKEL: We do have countries, we have relations with that are terrible human rights violators and have.

BOLLING: China.

BECKEL: China among the top. It is the top. It is.

BOLLING: But -- we still have.

PERINO: But why then hasn't when --

BOLLING: On what more could have done.

PERINO: Why then hasn't but -- on the last two trips it has been reported by the White House press corps, that President Obama has not brought up human rights violations with China in the last two meetings. Why is that?

BECKEL: It's a terrible mistake on his part. I cannot believe he would not. Every president I know that went to China has raised.

GUILFOYLE: What does he have to lose by bringing that up?

BECKEL: I have no idea, you got.

GUILFOYLE: Be on the record.

PERINO: But remember the other refrain, this is not who we are, anymore.

BOLLING: So can I add -- a little human rights -- benefit to this deal?

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BOLLING: That will happen without any force. Without any force, we need to demand this or -- we should be making sure that they get dollars instead of pesos. When you open up the way that -- the president has offered, you open up the banking system as well. Right now you can't trade with Cuba. You can't say, "We'll trade you dollars with pesos." It's off-limits. You can't do that. As you allow that to happen, you could put the U.S. bank in Cuba, that'll immediately make the Cuban -- Cuban pesos multiple, stronger, -- that will help the Cuban people immediately. To the -- almost the exact opposite what's going on in Russia. The Russian ruble is getting destroyed. It's - it's really putting pressure on the Russian people, if you open up banking with Cuba? Boy, you're just -- every single -- any Cuban that has a peso in their pocket will immediately have more pesos and more ability to buy stuff in Cuba.

PERINO: I hope that's true.

GUTFELD: Then we got to get something out of this country or I'll stay -- kind of win. Can we go to a montage of -- both sides, mixed feelings from...

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

GUTFELD: Everybody?

GUILFOYLE: Fun. OK.

GUTFELD: . OK. Is that all right, K.G.?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

GUTFELD: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHRIS VAN HOLLEN, MARYLAND CONGRESSMAN: A little more taste of -- you know, free market and free ideas. Well I think, encourage more demand for change from the Cuban people.

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, SYMDICATED COLUMNIST: This is the president who wants to leave his mark by quote, unquote "Improving relations with the worst regimes on earth." And that's what he wants to do.

COLIN POWELL, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: But I think having diplomatic relations as we have had with the Soviet Union, with Vietnam and so many other places, we can produce positive change.

RUSH LIMBAUGH, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Why don't we sell Iran a nuclear bomb? Yes, yes, I'm joking. But I'm trying to illustrate a point by using excessive exaggeration.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: Yes, Bob.

GUTFELD: What are you talking about? You weren't even listening.

GUILFOYLE: I was, I was -- laughing at Rush. Because Rush is like, "why don't we sell Iran a nuclear bomb?" He says, "I'm making a point by using exaggeration" of course, because there's somebody out there that's going to criticize and say, "Can you believe Rush just said this?"

GUTFELD: Yes, somebody have to.

GUILFOYLE: Joke within a joke?

GUTFELD: When I said, arrest the Sony filmmaker's?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. People actually thought I meant that. I was being ironic about Benghazi doing that.

BECKEL: The fact that Charles Krauthammer is one of the smartest people I know to suggest this is the worst human rights violations, which was happened in North Korea? Give me a break. But, leaving on the side, I don't understand here, what? The problem is with opening up and maybe having some change there, it's 90 miles off of our shore.

GUTFELD: I will -- I will say that -- sanctions maybe things haven't worked the way they should. But I -- I think about the people that know how bad Cuba's been and we -- that's why President Obama has to address their concerns. Then he has to say, look, I know these guys were awful people, but we've got to deal with them. But we're going to get something out of them.

BECKEL: I think that's right. I think he should go there and he should say that and by the way.

GUTFELD: I don't trust him.

BUTFELD: We didn't cover it today, but Eric, glad you raised this. I think the biggest story in the world right now is the Russian economy crashing. I mean, that's -- bigger than this one.

BOLLING: No. But -- the people who are pushing back, a lot of people, some of the people are pushing back are saying, we didn't demand human rights change out of Cuba before we made this deal. I'm telling you, the minute you open up a trade, let the currency trade against the dollar, you're going to help every poor Cuban on that island, 11 million people. Yes, will it help the oligarchs, will it help the rich people, will help the people who stole land when Batista was thrown out. It will help them too, because -- you know what? It will help someone but what -- when you help them, you also helping the average Cuban.

BECKEL: Even right out of China when Nixon went.

BOLLING: I agree Bob, I agree. I mean, look, we can't -- it is -- it's hypocritical to say, we need to continue to demand human rights corrections out of Cuba but not demand the same thing out of China. China is the big bear. China is the one you don't want to mess around with, don't want to tick off. So, everyone is like -- ohh, let's not tick off China.

BECKEL: I don't want tick off.

BOLLING: Apply the same standards.

GUILFOYLE: Bob loves it.

GUTFELD: It would -- can I -- Dana.

GUILFOYLE: He loves to tick off China.

GUTFELD: This is -- Ted Cruz you're aware of who he is, correct?

PERINO: Yes, I think I know.

GUTFELD: It seems.

GUILFOYLE: Bob's friend.

GUTFELD: Yeah, comparing the spy swap.

BECKEL: My man.

GUTFELD: And he calls them spies for something else. Take it away, Ted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) TED CRUZ, TEXAS SENATOR: He's also doing something reminiscent of the Bowe Bergdahl deal, where -- for Sergeant Bergdahl he released five senior Taliban terrorists, in this instance, he's releasing three Cuban spies who were responsible for the murder of four American citizens for spying on U.S. military (ph) installations including the southern command.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUTFELD: Is that is a fair comparison?

PERINO: Well, I think it's a logical one. I mean, why not? The president didn't do a lot to explain and he didn't take any questions from the press yesterday. He just undid basically an executive move. And I think it's interesting that every time, recently -- let's just look at the two that Ted Cruz mentions. Those concessions are basically to get to an end that President Obama wanted anyway.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: So, I think that's fair.

BECKEL: You know, that's a good point. But -- if ever it's time to take questions, he use to be an educate people about this, it should have been yesterday. And he didn't take advantage, and I don't get it. I really don't get it. You couldn't -- you're not going to get a whole lot of adversarial questions, right?

GUILFOYLE: No.

PERINO: Why not -- why not take questions.

GUILFOYLE: Let's have a press conference tomorrow, though.

PERINO: And also I would -- in particular I would have said that The President of the United States with the first amendment should have taking questions yesterday because for anybody who got a chance to see that in Cuba.

BECKEL: Very good.

PERINO: They would see, oh, you actually get to ask questions of your leaders.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: In America. That would have been a useful thing to do.

BECKEL: Very good point.

BOLLING: Let's just hope that negotiations aren't finished. Let's hope this is the beginning.

BECKEL: Hope they're not.

GUILFOYLE: They're not.

BOLLING: Well, that's the point. My point is -- so we're saying --

PERINO: Maybe that's why he didn't take that.

BOLLING: Maybe he's right. Maybe there's more ongoing things that happens in the office.

GUILFOYLE: The assistant secretary of state is shepherding that, so it's ongoing.

GUTFELD: All right, ahead. Celebrities slam Sony for surrendering to hackers by pulling The Interview from theaters. You'll hear from them next on the five.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYEL: All right, will President Obama commented about the hacking scandal at Sony and what it means for Americans.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: The cyber attack is very serious. We're investigating it. We're taking seriously. We'll be vigilant. If we see something that we think is serious and credible, then we'll alert the public. But for now, my recommendation would be that people go to the movies.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: The FBI thinks North Korea is behind it and will the U.S. respond?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Before we start -- publicly speculating about -- a response, it's appropriate that we allow the investigation to move forward. Sophisticated actors when they -- carry out actions like this, are oftentimes, but not always but often, seeking to provoke a response from the United States of America. They may believe that a response from us in one fashion or another -- would be advantageous to them.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: OK. So there's a lot of discussion about this yesterday and even more today. About the role the U.S. has in it, whether or not we were strong enough to voice objection and whether or not it was even a good idea for Sony to cancel the release of this. Dana, we'll start with you.

PERINO: Well, -- I am -- I'm amazed by this story. I think that in the last two days both North Korea and Cuba have gotten the best of America. Just like that. Just snap of the finger.

GUTFELD: They should have.

PERINO: Overnight.

GUTFELD: They should have the premiere of the movie, in Cuba.

PERINO: Oh, that's.

GUTFELD: North Korea wouldn't go after that.

PERINO: In Havana.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: That's right -- birds of a feather. It's interesting last time in free speech -- think about last -- in the last year, remember we talked about the stories where campus crusaders could shut down a college speaker like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, get her banned from speaking...

GUILFOYLE: Right.

PERINO: I think happen and culture.

GUTFELD: That (inaudible)

PERINO: And -- basically, that was OK on the campus. Now we're seeing this on the global scale, that the United States is saying, OK, we've a geopolitical actor, a foe against of the United States attacking an American company and really the economy. Think of all the movie workers who work at some of these theaters that now, won't be having the big crowds on Christmas day like they thought they were going to. They make minimum wage or maybe a little bit better in these theaters. It actually -- it affects everyone, up and down the line, not just the executives who embarrassed by their e-mails. I don't know how this is going to turnout, but I do think it's a very interesting exercise and how strong would we feel about free speech.

BECKEL: How would you -- what would you do in North Korea though? To me -- I agree with you, but I'm just wondering what is it that we could do?

PERINO: Bob, think you could shut -- I think that there are ways that you could shut down their internet.

BECKEL: Well, that's probably right.

PERINO: How about that?

BECKEL: But you know hackers and some.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: I think these hackers, Cuba -- North Korea does not have educated computer people like.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: China does. I think china's behind this through North Korea.

PERINO: We don't know that, though. I mean, you could actually find out that it's like somebody in the basement.

BECKEL: It could. But I want to speculate that it's China.

PERINO: OK. All right.

GUTFELD: I think it's the brain room.

GUILFOYLE: I think the FBI knows. Put it that way. OK, Bolling.

BOLLING: OK. So here's the way I see this whole thing come down. Sony, -- look there are two different groups here. There's Sony, the movie --

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BOLLING: Company that produced the picture. Then there the movie theater companies that put -- the film on screens. I think Sony is weak. They should have just released this film digitally. They can't -- they were hacked, they were nervous, they pulled it, they were scared and then all of a sudden the Steve Carell film gets pull and then paramount says don't play. A lot of movie theaters were playing Team America's.

GUTFELD: Yeah, Team America.

BOLLING: I want to call them team America which another shot in North Korea up against --

GUTFELD: Great movie.

GUILFOYLE: About assassin.

BOLLING: Hilarious right?

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: Let the problem will be -- whatever so.

GUILFOYLE: Just like bon fire.

BOLLING: Movie theaters are not allowed to air that film in your theaters as well. So the movie houses, the one that is produce the films, I think they're being very weak and they're caving. The movie theaters, I don't blame them. It's a business decision. They can put anything up on that screen and people are going to show up. So why put something up you've been warned there could be terrorism in your movie theater? That's a smart business decision to walk away from it. They don't have a first amendment issue here. I think Sony does. But I don't think the movie theater.

BECKEL: Do you think North Korea is in a position --

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: Right along premier (ph) and do some terrorism. Do you think the North Koreans could do actually do that something in a movie theater?

BOLLING: But you're a business man, Bob. This is your theater. Would you air -- this?

BECKEL: No, I mean, I think you're right, I think you're right, but I still don't think North Korea is going to do that.

GUTFELD: I think -- I mean, I -- I think that Hollywood has less spine, and cream of weak (ph). I think that everybody should have aired it. We should all be watching this right now.

GUILFOYLE: Mandatory.

GUTFLD: Even if the movie is not very good. What I find intriguing about this is that to hear certain celebrities, talk, call and other people calling this terror. So this is their idea of terror. Perhaps we should accuse them of being North Koreaphobic? That because, -- you know and maybe we should worry about a backlash against North Korea. Because you know, not all North Koreans -- Hollywood, not all North Koreans hack. Just some of -- the hackers just happen to might be North Korean, it's just to get that straight.

BOLLING: So let me have a hashtag, so.

PERINO: It's sort of a hashtag. I'll watch a movie with you.

GUTFELD: Oh, watch a movie with me.

BOLLING: So, terror is having your e-mails exposed in Hollywood.

GUTFELD: Right.

BOLLING: Not having 3,000 people die in the World Trade Center -- I got you.

GUTFELD: And by the way, -- I mean, if you use this logic that Hollywood is using right now.

PERINO: Yeah.

GUTFELD: We should be banning Planet of the apes, because it offends monkeys. How many movies are offensive to people?

GUILFOYLE: Penguins? Yeah, the penguin movies.

GUTFELD: Yeah. I can't watch movie.

BECKEL: If everybody allows me to a big screen TV, I have a 42nd story apartment I will play it outside for everybody to watch it. I'll be happy to do it. I hope the Chinese and Koreans eat cake.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: OK. That was weird.

BOLLING: He got.

GUILFOYLE: I don't know what's up with that. Can we talk about Hollywood for a second?

BOLLING: Islamist, he got the Chinese.

BECKEL: I don't get it.

GUILFOYLE: And Dana and Greg and Bolling's favorite thing in life -- Twitter? Because -- some people were on it, Rob Lowe and any chance I get to say his name and --

PERINO: you saw a picture.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: So ugly, ugly man -- an ugly man.

GUILFOLYE: OK, Rob Lowe.

BECKEL: Skinny isn't he?

GUILFOYLE: So, what do you think about this? Rob Lowe, saying, "Wow. Everyone caved. The hackers won an utter and complete victory for them. wow."

GUTFELD: He's right. He's absolutely right.

GUILFOYLE: And Jimmy Kimmel got to love him, "An un-American act of cowardice that validates terrorist actions and sets a terrifying precedent." He's right on the money I think.

GUTFELD: Yes, absolutely.

BOLLING: Can I trust some of here. I was watching Jen Psaki on CNN and she literally couldn't bring herself to call it cyber terrorism. She was asked, is it cyber terrorism? And she wouldn't go there. I don't know what it is.

PERINO: Well, there's a text --

BOLLING: Which is the Obama administration.

PERINO: Look.

BOLLING: That they just avert the word "terror" at any cost.

GUTFELD: But I would -- I don't think I would.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I think it says -- I mean, -- yeah, you call it terror then you're going to have to act, that also there's a distinct definition. So did they cause violence? Well, no. Did they threaten violence? Yes. Didn't quite get to terrorism, I guess -- I think -- we're kind of on uncharted territory.

BOLLING: Did it change -- your way of life.

BECKEL: Yeah.

BOLLING: By fear? And that --

PERINO: Well, I don't think that -- I just not the legal definition. I think it's interesting Sony bought the rights to the Snowden movie, OK? This is all about the spying on Americans, I wonder if are going to pull that back, too.

GUTFELD: Interesting.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: This is a very dangerous precedent. I don't think this was a good move at all. You shouldn't bow down and cave into terrorists like this. So, anyway --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: But once again, I'm just worried about the backlash against hackers. We've got to think about the hackers.

BOLLING: Poor hackers.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: I'd like to do a movie about now and put that out.

GUILFOYLE: All right, before this goes off the rails more than it has, we'll probably going to move on. Stay tuned. Because we're going to tell you how you can protect yourself from online hackers, up next, on The Five, Greg, pay attention.

GUTFELD: I am.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: The hacking of Sony is making a lot of Americans think about their own security online. There's good reason to be somewhat concerned, according to the director of the FBI.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JAMES COMEY, FBI DIRECTOR: Cyber-crime is becoming everything in crime. Again, because people have connected their entire lives to the Internet. That's where those who want to steal money or hurt kids or defraud go. So it's an epidemic for reasons that make sense.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How many attacks are there on American computer systems and on people's credit card numbers and the whole mass?

COMEY: Too many to count.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sounds like cybercrime is a long way from Bonnie and Clyde for the FBI.

COMEY: Bonnie and Clyde could not do 1,000 robberies in the same day in all 50 states from their pajamas halfway around the world.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do people understand, in your estimation, the dangers posed by cybercrime and cyber-espionage?

COMEY: I don't think so.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: So what can you do to protect yourself from hackers? Here are some tips from the International Business Times and Better Business Bureau. Even Bob looked up there. He's interested.

All right. Use reputable websites, ones that have a good track record from previous customers. OK, I don't know if that's really going to happen.

Use a -- this is a good one. Use a credit card over a debit card, because they have extra security features; and credit companies are usually more willing to replace your stolen money than most banks.

And also this sounds simple, but you've got to make sure to use strong passwords that have numbers, capital and lower-case letters and a symbol. And I heard a little tip today from somebody who's kind of in the business.

GUILFOYLE: What?

PERINO: A lot of websites now will allow you to put a space for -- in your password. And when you do that, if you put like "Kimberly space Guilfoyle," it actually messes up other computers that are trying to get to you. So you should try that. Maybe when you change your passwords add a space. It's also very simple.

BOLLING: So add, like, pass -- instead of password go "pass space word"?

PERINO: It might help. I mean, cut down, like, 80 percent of the hacking.

BOLLING: Can I just point something out? All -- if you adhere to every single one of those...

PERINO: You'd still get hacked?

BOLLING: ... it wouldn't have helped Sony one iota.

PERINO: That's true. However, I do think that we need to point out, Kimberly, not to scare -- we don't need to scare people. China is not trying to hack into personal e-mails necessarily. But one thing you should do is -- I also learned this today -- is you should have a personal e-mail account and a business e-mail account, and you should never cross the line. That's hard to do.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Then we got to talk about the real world.

PERINO: OK.

GUILFOYLE: That sounds great. But I think even people that are very scrupulous and the best of intentions, there's going to be crossover. You saw some of the stuff with Sony with his trusted assistant, who was like, "Hey, I got to get your Amazon password," you know, back and forth just trying to be helpful, probably, at Christmastime and get stuff done.

But you have to, like, almost shut down your efficiency to err on the side of caution and cyber security, otherwise you might get jammed.

BOLLING: I was just reading this thing, this is what I pay attention to. I was paying attention; I was just reading my notes.

But Eric -- Eric figured -- Kimberly grabbed my phone, right, and Eric said, "What's your birthday," at the first of the month. I gave it to him. She got in right away, and I had to go tackle her, which was...

PERINO: I've never seen you move so fast.

BOLLING: I know, exactly. But the other thing is that...

GUILFOYLE: He's a high tackler, too, if you know what I mean.

BOLLING: Here's my problem. I only use a debit card because I'm maxed out on my credit cards. So I use a debit card. And one day I was in a restaurant. A guy said to me...

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BOLLING: "What's your address that this bill goes to, this credit card -- this debit card?" So I told him; didn't think about it. And then he said, "What's your Social Security number?" I told him.

PERINO: Bob come on.

GUILFOYLE: That's not believable.

BOLLING: So you go -- it was $30,000 in computer equipment.

PERINO: Why would you give someone your Social Security number?

BOLLING: Because I was stupid.

PERINO: Yes, so don't do that. That's a tip. There's a tip.

GUILFOYLE: "How about your Social Security number?" Everyone knows that.

PERINO: Greg, you've been a little bit worried about this situation because you're just thinking about...

GUTFELD: Well, first of all, just you know, to calm people, you never want to blame the victim. But you don't leave your windows open and your doors unlocked in a rough neighborhood, and that's what Sony did. Sony is -- has part of the blame in all of this. They should have done a better job.

However, I'm an expert on passwords. I talked about this yesterday. And I have a solution. Make your passwords all about me. Four parts. Use my name, what you like about me: eyes, feet...

BOLLING: Feet?

GUTFELD: Socks. Three, what we would do together on a date. And four, how old I look. So a typical ideal password would be "Greg's pecs yoga 27." No one could crack that. Think about it.

PERINO: It's safe.

GUTFELD: Four combinations. You've got like a trillion combinations on that.

PERINO: You need a symbol, too.

BECKEL: GregAngerManagement.com?

BOLLING: Can I give you the only real advice, unfortunately, is what your friend has. Yes, no and call me.

PERINO: Yes. I worked with a guy.

BOLLING: Stop sending e-mail. That's the only response.

GUILFOYLE: You just have to be verbal.

BOLLING: Yes, right. Call me.

PERINO: I had -- I worked with a guy at the White House. And he only had three e-mail responses, "Yes, no, and see me."

GUTFELD: Well, mine is "$20 an ounce." Never mind.

PERINO: OK. I was going to go with that.

All right. We've got to go.

President Obama has pledged to bridge the gap between the rich and the poor throughout his presidency. Six years in, where does that gap stand now? Eric's got the numbers next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: President Obama swept into office in January 2009 with the message of hope and change in his first inaugural address he promised he would help usher in an era of economic equality.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The question we ask today is not whether our government is too big or too small but whether it works. Whether it helps families find jobs at a decent wage, care they can afford, a retirement that is dignified.

This crisis has reminded us that without a watchful eye, the market can spin out of control. The nation cannot prosper along when it favors only the prosperous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Nearly seven years and over $7 trillion in added debt later, where do we stand?

The wealth gap between middle and upper income households has widened to the highest level on record. And take a look at the last few years. In 2007, upper income median net worth was about 4.5 times greater than the middle class. Last year, nearly seven times greater.

So Mr. President, hope yes, change not so much.

Now, Bob, you pitched this segment. What in the world were you thinking? This is the widest income equality than ever.

BECKEL: The one I pitched, the only one I got, and you managed to turn it into an anti-Obama piece.

BOLLING: Well, why don't you tell me why...

BECKEL: Well, first of all, one of the reasons for this in the Obama administration you had the biggest stock market boom than we've had in a long time. And most people own stocks who are wealthy people.

This has been going on a long, long time. Back in 1960 the average CEO made about $64 for every dollar owned by somebody on the floor. It's now like $900.

BOLLING: Here's the point. You heard the sound bite of President Obama in 2009, right?

BECKEL: Yes.

BOLLING: Where he said he wants -- he was concerned about the upper class having so much more wealth than the middle class.

BECKEL: Correct.

BOLLING: And under President Obama, Dana, it's only gotten worse.

PERINO: Well, I think that wealth is different than income, right? So wealth is how much you have, and income is how much you make. And the question for policymakers and our leaders and all of us that want to participate in a democracy is, is anybody in the system unfairly disadvantaged? Is there a policy that is making them -- it impossible for them to move up and to make more?

I think that a lot of people across the country are looking at this saying that if you're a Republican or a Democrat, a lot of the old tricks don't work anymore necessarily. Like the tax cuts didn't do it for everybody. Redistribution doesn't do it for everybody.

So now going into 2016, I think we're in new territory here with the possibility of making mobility the ability to get -- to make more money and to gain more wealth -- should -- the election should be about that.

GUILFOYLE: That's the issue that people should focus on. But the problem is, as long as the feds are keeping to print money or loaning money to Wall Street you're going to still see record highs, right, in the market. And that's when you're still going to see that big gap in the wealth gap. That's what we're seeing happening, and this is part of Obamanomics.

BOLLING: I'm going to go to Greg first and then bail Bob out a little bit afterwards. Go ahead, Greg.

GUTFELD: This truly is -- this truly is trickle-down economics, because everyone who wasn't rich got peed on by this administration.

GUILFOYLE: Whoa, that was weird.

GUTFELD: No, it's not weird. It's scatological.

This is not about the greedy rich anymore; it's about the policies of progressives. It shows that spreading the wealth, Bob, doesn't help spread anything but division and animosity.

The way to make more money is to increase the pie, not to rearrange the slices. And what we did was we rearranged the slices. People got scared. They hoarded their money. People got -- and what happened was the people that he was supposed to help got screwed, including blacks and Hispanics. They fared worse under Obama than whites did. So that makes President Obama a racist.

GUILFOYLE: Why aren't people protesting in the streets about that? Protest about that.

PERINO: Can I have one...

GUTFELD: Sharpton and I are meeting later.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, are you?

BOLLING: Can I throw this out here? A long time ago I said I don't have a problem with income inequality as long as the rate is going up. If both are doing better, it's OK. Because even if the upper class is doing better, it's bringing the lower class up with it. That, in my world, in free market world land...

GUTFELD: A rising boat.

BOLLING: ... it's a rising boat. Right. Rising tide floating the lower boats, as well. So I'm OK with that.

We set it up only on the hypocrisy of President Obama saying the income inequality gap was too wide and the wealth gap was too wide. And now it's wider than when he took over. That was the point about that.

BECKEL: Dana, I want to understand the question. during Reagan when he had his boom, the lower income did go up. During Clinton it went up. I mean, the lower -- poor people came up with the wealthy people. Why do you think it isn't? It's not because Obama wants it to happen.

PERINO: Do you know who's written a lot of pieces about this is William Galston of the Wall Street Journal. He worked in the early years of the Clinton administration. He writes a weekly column. He writes a lot about this. And some of my thinking comes from that.

I also think another thing has happened in the last 30 years, marriage. A big determining factor of how much wealth you have in the household is based on marriage.

GUTFELD: That's what it is.

PERINO: Marriage rates are way down.

BECKEL: That's a good point.

PERINO: And nobody really wants to talk about that, because people don't want to get married. They don't want to have babies. OK, fine, but...

GUTFELD: You have more net worth if you're together than if you're separate.

PERINO: If you're together.

GUTFELD: Also do you get the impression that there are fewer people working?

PERINO: That is definitely -- there are fewer people working.

BECKEL: That makes a lot of sense.

PERINO: And also a lot of -- a lot of the frustration about wealth is aimed at one sector, the finance sector. It's not aimed at people in entertainment or sports or even technology. For some reason, those companies escape...

GUTFELD: Yes, Hoover (ph) gets away with it.

PERINO: ... any sort of scrutiny. But it's the financial sector that gets a lot of the attention.

GUILFOYLE: The problem is...

BECKEL: They also contribute money to both Democrats and Republicans in large...

PERINO: Wall Street donates more to Democrats than to Republicans. Over and over again.

GUILFOYLE: But ultimately, too, This administration -- yes. This administration has done more to create dependency, increase dependency from government assistance, record numbers of, you know, Food Stamps or people on welfare. So of course, that's widening the gap, as well.

They want to do that. They want people to rely on government services to breed a nation of Julias (ph) instead of people that are out there able to put themselves forward to make money.

BECKEL: But that should make it lower, though, right?

GUILFOYLE: No, it's not. Welfare and government social programs, all of the above. Higher taxes for middle class, too.

GUTFELD: Amazing. It's like you pull the string.

BOLLING: Megyn Kelly says she had an awkward conversation with President Obama at the White House Christmas party Tuesday night. It was only 30 seconds long. What happened? You're going to hear from Megyn next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: If you had 30 seconds to talk to the president of the United States, what would you say to him? Megyn Kelly had the opportunity on the night of the White House Christmas party, and she told Jimmy Kimmel it didn't go very well.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, LATE-NIGHT HOST: Did you talk to the president and the first lady?

MEGYN KELLY, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I had 30 seconds to get in and get out without embarrassing myself, and I blew it.

He said, "The White House is a pretty fun place, isn't it?"

I said, "It is," and speaking about me and my husband, Doug, who was next to me, I said, "Maybe we'll be here in two years."

And he looked at me like, "What?"

And I was like "What did I say?" It all was like a joke that we were going to run for office, and we'd be in the White House in two news. And all I think all he was thinking was, "Who's we? Oh, she's with FOX News. Oh, I don't like FOX News. Oh, I don't like FOX News. Oh, that's for Republicans. She must mean the Republicans. Is this a shot at me?"

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: That's exactly what it was, Megyn.

Dana, you and I have both been to these White House Christmas parties. What do you think of her reaction?

PERINO: Look, I think it's easy to get tongue-tied in front of any president. It doesn't matter Republican or Democrat. And you might think of all of things you might want to say to them, but when you walk into the room, it just -- something comes over you. And I think she handled it very well.

BECKEL: Did you ever have any embarrassing moment talking the president?

PERINO: President Obama?

BECKEL: Yes, or Bush. You got along with Obama, I know that.

PERINO: Yes. Oh, yes, I embarrass myself regularly. Not really. I can't think of any at the moment.

BECKEL: Greg, the last time you talked to the president, what did you say?

GUTFELD: I asked him for a light.

BECKEL: That's good. You probably would have blown it. But you were the first lady in San Francisco. You know what this is like.

GUILFOYLE: So yes, this is interesting, because when I was at the White House and actually George Bush, W., was president. And I was first lady, and I was with Gavin, and he was super nice to us. We were in a private room with him, and he took pictures with us. And this is when Gavin was doing gay marriage, and he's like, "Hey, take a picture, no problem."

We say, "We want to take a picture."

He says, "No problem. Fine, let's take a picture together." Very nice. Said great things about San Francisco.

Democratic National Convention, first time I met then-Senator Obama, would not take a picture with Gavin and I. He was planning on running. Isn't that interesting?

BECKEL: Now Eric, if I remember right, at the last White House Correspondents Dinner...

GUILFOYLE: And I didn't work here yet.

BECKEL: ... you were standing in front, trying to get the president behind for one of your infamous photos. And what happened?

BOLLING: No, no, no. I ate the president's dessert that he didn't eat. I ran up on this thing and...

GUILFOYLE: That was so weird.

BECKEL: You did?

BOLLING: But there was a funnier interchange.

GUILFOYLE: I got a picture of it.

BOLLING: Kimberly, I think you were there for that. It was during the White House Correspondents Dinner, and the room is dark. And the table up top is light. So you can't really see out there. And I was waving to Michelle Obama. I'm waving to her like this. She's like waving and she realized it was the FOX News table, she went like this. She was like...

BECKEL: Well, on that note, "One More Thing" is up next.

GUILFOYLE: Bolling's shy. You can tell, right?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Time for "One More Thing." I go first. Catch me on O'Reilly tonight with McGuirk. It's just one of the strangest ever.

And all right. It's time for...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Greg's Sports Corner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

All right. As we always go to at this time of the year, it's the cat versus trees Olympics. Let's go right to Lake Placid. Here we go. I've got the first one. That's Captain Chuckles. Oh, he almost made it!

And there is Admiral Fluff-Fluff. My goodness. This one took one down. That one took another down. It's ugly out there. It gets very violent. Some of the cats didn't make it, unfortunately.

GUILFOYLE: Why are they so weird?

GUTFELD: The lesson here is if you have a Christmas tree and a cat, keep them in separate room. Because cats don't -- cats don't like tall ferns.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: All right, Bob.

BECKEL: Like on "Christmas Vacation" where they burn the squirrel?

OK. One of the -- not one of -- the greatest country western singer of all time was on David Letterman last night, Willie Nelson. Take a look at this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: He actually sounds better now.

BECKEL: All right. There you go, Willie. I've been with Willie on his bus a few times.

PERINO: Oh, boy.

GUILFOYLE: Here we go. I haven't heard that story before.

GUTFELD: Eric.

BOLLING: OK. So very quickly, I was pro-Cuba deal. I'll throw a couple of tweets and a Facebook comment very quickly. Here's what you had to say about my being pro Cuba. "No to Cuba. Now we cave into North Korea. We're becoming a fourth-rate country." Dana -- not this Dana -- something else: "Cuba normalization only proves Obama's fidelity to communism. Cuba has not changed since the Bay of Pigs."

But on Facebook, Bala said, "Cuba is absolutely a good deal. Weaken Russian influence. Fifty years is enough, people.

GUILFOYLE: Hashtag #CashinIn. Nice plug, Bolling.

GUTFELD: Perino.

PERINO: OK, so for the last week or so, I've been watching this great thing on Twitter, the NFIB, which is the National Indie -- I'm sorry -- National Federation of Independent Business Campaign. That they've been having this thing. You tweet in a picture called "pet boss." So if you work from home and you have a pet like Jasper came to "The Five" one day. I think we got a picture of that. That was on his birthday.

This is Eric and Freedom. This is his -- Eric and his dog here. Kimberly and Bella. This is a very sweet little picture there. There she is.

This is great!

And Greg and Captain Sparkles. That's how he does all of his work at home. And then Bob and Jasper.

GUILFOYLE: Is that PhotoShopped?

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: There's Bob doing some work. That's Bob's favorite.

GUILFOYLE: We love it!

GUTFELD: We'd just gotten back from the E.R. We had a little accident -- Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: That is so gross.

GUTFELD: You don't even know what I'm talking about.

GUILFOYLE: Anyway, Let's talk about something awesome.

GUTFELD: You don't have time.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I do. OK.

GUTFELD: Hurry it up!

GUILFOYLE: OK. Go to Glimmer (ph). It's Naval Special War Group. They have this new technology, and it's a shark drone. And it is the coolest thing I have ever seen. We should send it over to North Korea. But anyway, it swims like a fish, and it oscillates with its back. It has a biometric system. It's very cool. I love the U.S. military.

GUTFELD: You know what else is a shark drone?

GUILFOYLE: What?

BECKEL: We've got to go.

GUTFELD: Mark Cuban.

All right. That's it for us. "Special Report" is next.

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