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The Five

Terror Down Under: Could it happen here?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 15, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly, along with Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

It is 9 a.m. in Sydney, Australia. A city on edge after a Jihadist inspired by ISIS took a cafe under siege, holding more than a dozen people hostage for more than 16 hours.

The standoff ended after the police raided the cafe following the sound of gunshots. Two hostages were killed along with the gunman, four others are hurt. The Jihadist name was Man Haron Monis, someone well known to Australian authorities. He was an Iranian-born Muslim cleric who loudly objected to Australia's troop present Afghanistan. Monis had just been in court Friday, accused of conspiring to kill his ex-wife. A counter terrorism source tells Fox news there is little doubt, the siege was an act of Islamic Terrorism. Earlier, Former Acting CIA Director Mike Morell raised his concerns about an attack similar to what we saw in Sidney today, happening here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

MIKE MORELL, FORMER ACTING CIA DIRECTOR: What concerns me the most is that we're going to see this kind of terrorism around the world and we are going to see it here, Nora, we are going to see this kind of attack here. And we need to be prepared for that. It shouldn't surprise people when this happens here sometime over the next year or so, guaranteed.

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

GUILFOYLE: Those are strong words, guaranteed that we have to be prepared as a country for this type of Islamic terrorism occurring on our streets here. What do you think? Are we ready?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: No. You can't be ready, and that's the nature of this. This is Lone wolf. This is homegrown terror that -- if ISIS continues to tell everyone to go out if you're sympathetic for their cause, go ahead and pull off one of these things you're going to continue to see it happening, there no way to prepare for it. Some nut job walks into a candy store and takes the whole place down he says he's got a bomb here and everyone puts their hands up. Everyone who is disgruntled in life now will have a cause. And this is unfortunately, that's what's going on. Do you realize what happen here though? Late last night this started. Every news anchor, every news program on the planet not just in Australia or here...

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Put it off.

BOLLING: Immediately put it on. Three people ended up dying -- this is terrorists and once you tie it to terrorists, everyone wants to hear about it. Do you know six people died in Pennsylvania today? One guy when -- and shot six several --

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: Six different people in several locations in Pennsylvania, but no one heard about that. We're hearing about this because of the nature of terror and that's --

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: They're winning. They're winning. They're calling on terror and we need to be terrorized.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I need to correct you though, you said three people died? It was two, right?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: And who's three?

GUTFELD: Who's the third? You're talking about the terrorist?

BOLLING: The hostage, no -- I got you, yeah.

GUTFELD: The terrorist isn't a person.

BOLLING: Right.

GUTFELD: They should never be included in the --

BOLLING: That's incorrect.

GUTFELD: Yeah, exactly. I was just surprised I thought he was a Mormon. I sense a train here, you know? And I love how the media, I always like to focus on the media here they paint these people as isolated crack pots. They called them self-styled clerics -- that's what they called this guy. But they never use this kind of logic with law enforcement or with fraternities. It's like -- when there's an isolated incident in anything else, they use it to blanket an entire profession. However, when it comes to radical Islam, for some reason, it's not a deep-rooted problem. For everybody else, if anybody does something, it's a deep rooted problem. But, when it comes to radical Islam, it's just an irreverent, weird, isolated freaky thing and please, please, please, do not -- let's not have a backlash, let's not have a backlash. There was more stuff on tweeter about this coming backlash than I've ever seen and they're more worried about an act that hasn't happened, than an act that's already happened, which was this hostage taking. They were more consumed by this idea that's, that's somehow a bunch of Australians were going to go out and beat up Muslims rather than the fact that there were hostages in there.

GUILFOYLE: They getting it wrong, they got it reverse, Dana?

PERINO: So, going back to Former CIA Director Mike Morell, saying that he guarantees that there will be an attack like this within the next year. I think that might -- but maybe he knows something I don't know. I think that -- the question of taxpayers must ask then is then, what are you doing -- government not Mike Morell, what are you doing to try to prevent it. But I worry about is that over the past two weeks, we have been fighting about, discussions regarding -- the past and fighting terrorism when we were first hit and in the aftermath of that, we spent two weeks hashing over that -- those decisions that were made then, which is all fine and good. If at the same time we have the capacity to be able to thinking about and be creative, think about what -- how if we need to protect ourselves in the future. These lone wolf attacks are what we've all worried about since right after 9/11, maybe even before that. That that was -- all the CIA directors, Intel people, DOD, FBI, this is their biggest concern. I just don't know if saying to the American people that they guaranteed that these types of things are going to happen is necessary the right thing to do. People need to be prepared and vigilant, and police forces need to be train, maybe there needs to be better security but, I don't know --

GUILFOYLE: But how he knows?

PERINO: Carrying -- I don't think...

GUILFOYLE: Is it...

PERINO: I don't think he does know. I think it was just being on TV and a little hyperbole.

GUILFOYLE: Well, perhaps also based on all the information right? That he has about -- you know active plots or intelligence status on what's going on... 

PERINO: Well, the other thing could be, is -- the capacity of ISIS in order to inspire these lone wolves and that's why you have to go back to the question from August, which is President Obama said his mission is to degrade and destroy ISIS, and we hardly ever hear what the update is on that. Today, he gave a speech talking about the end of combat operations in Afghanistan, but it was the end of combat operations in Iraq that let back in (ph) that allowed ISIS to continue his team roles. So what are we doing to degrade and destroy on the immediate front and also, then you have the ideological war in the long run.

GUILFOYLE: And then also --

PERINO: Which is 50 to 70-year war?

GUILFOYLE: And then there's the -- what? The active -- you know effort to degrade and destroy intelligence gathering by -- you know this vitriol and all this rhetoric coming about the Americans or CIA officers, be war criminal that is such -- where's that getting us? Because if we're not getting the act of information, how we going to prevent these attacks? Certainly not if predators going to strike anyone.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: And what we did saw it's like that, that we have here identified this guy. What we see here...

GUILFOYL: Well that's not true, you don't know that.

BECKEL: Well, we've always seen here...

PERINO: Well...

GUILFOYLE: Depending...

PERINO: Bob, he should have been in jail, this guy -- I mean...

GUILFOYLE: This guy shouldn't have been out. 

BECKEL: You're right, I agree with that. He was -- picked up for murder, conspiracy to murder, I don't know why he's on the streets. But, all the ones that we've seen here, these long wolves have been people with some serious problems and probably the ones who will be attracted to the ISIS movement. But let me say -- I'm only say one thing, I don't know of -- intelligence troops that won't say publicly or privately, I guarantee an attack because they want to be sure they're covered in case there is an attack.

GUILFOYLE: I think that might be a part of it. Perhaps, they also have the information.

BECKEL: Well, in --

PERINO: I don't know anyone else who actually has ever said guaranteed that -- and they in fact, they would worry about it.

BECKEL: They worry about it. But the other thing is -- have you noticed how little ISIS has gotten in the news lately?

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BECKEL: Do you notice how little land they've taking, because they have lost land.

PERINO: You seem like when -- you mean the -- like the news last week where they killed four children who refused...

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

PERINO: To convert?

BECKEL: No, I'm talking about whether they...

PERINO: Yeah, they've already beheaded children?

BECKEL: That they're taking more land in either Syria or Iraq.

GUILFOYLE: Bob, you don't think that it's alarming, that they beheaded four children...

BECKEL: Of course I do.

GUILFOYLE: That we didn't pronounce their faith?

BECKEL: That's not my point. My point...

GUILFOYLE: I don't think you need any other ISIS news headlines of than that one to know exactly what we're up against.

BECKEL: Well, no. I'm going to see -- I would like the government to tell us, where ISIS has expanded to, how much land they have taken since they were supposed to have taken over those Syria and Iraq.

GUILFOYLE: All right. OK.

BECKEL: I want to see what's happen, but my guess...

GUILFOYLE: But were not...

BECKEL: You're going to -- wait a minute.  GUILFOYLE: Right. I know Bob --

BECKEL: You're going to find out that is not...

GUILFOYLEW: Trying to get Greg in.

BECKEL: Go ahead. Go ahead.

GUTFELD: What?

GUILFOYLE: Greg?

GUTFELD: No, I just -- I wanted to go back, people are wondering why this guy on the streets and it goes back to my point. Fear -- is Islamophobia phobia? Why would this guy -- he was involved in killing his wife, sexual assault going back to 2002. We are suffering -- we're suffering from bad apple avoidance syndrome. We -- in the old days, your own community looked out for the bad apples, whether they are Muslim, whether they are cops, whether they are in your own neighborhood. The Muslim community has to look out for their bad apples, because we can't do it for you. This guy is a bad apple who's been out on the street, because people were scared appointing out this individual.

BECKEL: No, that, that is...

GUTFELD: Bob, let me finish. Of also, about this threat? It is going happen, I believe it is. And the only way you can deal with that is make sure that you don't live in a gun free zone. A terrorist looks for sitting ducks, not armed citizens.

BECKEL: What is it?

GUILFOYLE: Right. Even you needed them in the chocolate chop. (ph)

BECKEL: Australia is not too relaxed in keeping people in prison. Number one, I -- doubt for the kept -- they let him go out because he was a Muslim. Secondly, I was glad to see some good news out of this, the Muslim community in Australia denounced the guy immediately.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: That oversees Muslims and (inaudible)

GUILFOYLE: All right, that was a good point.

BECKEL: That's a good set.

GUILFOYLE: Positive developments.

GUTFELD: And it rather ones that tweeter that we're -- we're saying, rah, rah, rah.

GUILFOYLE: And the attack in Australia today is really just another reminder of the threat that the world faces from terrorists like we have been discussing, and back at home, the debate continues on how to best get intelligence from Jihadists captured overseas. And this weekend Former Vice President Dick Cheney weighed in on his definition of what torture really is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FORMER VICE PRESIDENT DICK CHENEY,: Torture to me -- Chuck, is an American citizen on his cell phone making the last call to his four young daughters shortly before he burns to death in the upper levels of the Trade Center in New York City. Torture, was what Al- Qaeda terrorists did to 3,000 Americans on 9/11. There is no comparison between that and what we did with unexpected (ph) hands on terrorist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Supreme Court Justice Scalia also had a strong opinion on torture and here's what he just told a Swiss radio network.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

ANTONIN SCALIA, SUPREME COURT JUSTICE: I think it is very facile for people to say, "Oh, torture is terrible." You posit the situation where a person that you know for sure knows the location of a nuclear bomb that has been planted in Los Angeles and will kill millions of people. You think it's an easy question? You think it's clear that you cannot use extreme measures to get that information out of that person? I don't think that's so clear at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

GUILFOYLE: Scalia also says torture is not contrary to the constitution. He in fact points out where in the constitution is in any way -- you know what, Bob?

BECKEL: Go ahead.

GUILFOYLE: Are you with us?

BECKEL: I'm with you...

GUILFOYLE: Where...

BECKEL: It's not what you think.

GUILFOYLE: Anywhere in the constitution is that a test that...

BECKEL: Cruel not ego from...

GUILFOYLE: No, no, no.

BECEKL: Torture.

GUILFOYLE: No, no, no. Torture is not punishment. It's part of intelligence gathering under existence (ph) circumstances.

BECKEL: You know, we've got two people...

GUILFOYL: So, in fact, not punishment. Punishment is what happened after you put someone on trial and you decide whether they are guilty or not of a crime.

BECKEL: You know, we never put anybody on here and disagree with this currents line of trying to cover your butt.

GUILFOYLE: Well, you're on here.

BECKEL: On a -- yeah, be by myself, that's fine. But we don't put anything on any of our packages here. And the fact of the matter is, Dick Cheney, when he talks about this stuff, he was responsible for putting together a war that went into Iraq, that was not prepared, that did away with the entire army over there and --

GUILFOYLE: What?

BECKEL: He somehow now...

(CROSSTLAK)

BECKEL: Is saying it's not his fault. And the other thing is there is not definitive absolute proof that all of our intelligence came from these things.

GUILFOYLE: OK Bob. OK, I'm done to bring in Dana.

PERINO: I don't think anybody has ever said that all of the intelligence...

GUILFOYLE: Nobody has.

PERINO: Came from enhanced interrogation. I also really like what's Scalia has to say in term of that innocent -- these questions aren't easy.

GUILFOYLE: No.

PERINO: But these are just thing that people make snap judgments about, like should I buy this or that, these are things that life and death about protecting people and none of us have ever been in the position of actually being responsibility for protecting innocent life. And when you're under that kind of pressure, I do think that you make decisions that err on the side of protecting people. And I thought -- I think that -- everything that was done was safe, legal and rare and that we're better off for it. I'm not saying that all the intelligence came from it, but, I think we are wasting -- way too much time talking about those years and not worrying and not about the future.

BECKEL: But why we don't do it now? Is it...

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely.

BECKEL: Why we do it now?

GUILFOYLE: And what if we...

PERINO: They have the carta (ph) out so that they could.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

BECKEL: Where?

PERINO: In the executive order that Barack Obama signed.

BECKEL: They have the carta. (ph)

PEIRNO: There's a carta. (ph)

GUILFOYLE: Correct.

PERINO: Just in case, there's ever a possibility when they need to put some pressure on somebody.

GUILFOYLE: So just say have...

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: It's still...

BECKEL: They're not doing that.

GUILFOYLE: Stands today. Well because Bob, it depends on the circumstances, God forbid if there 9/11 or something where to happen, when they had to go into this very quick real-time intelligence gathering, they going to have to do what it takes. And I -- believe me, after 9/11 -- everybody was on board, even people who were on that committee and now only after the fact, years and years later, are they now questioning, and saying, oh, maybe you should not have done, we gave you the permission to do, that was legal at that time, and thanks for getting bin Laden, but no thanks, we think you did it the wrong way.

GUTFELD: There -- post statue (ph) is simple fact that almost anybody could understand. There's no logic in having no last resort. Because...

PERINO: Right.

GUTFELD: When all else fails, then what you do? Do you just go to lunch?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFEDL: Go well, you're talking to this guy, and he's not telling us anything, so I guess we're done. No, you go digital.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

GUTFELD: You cut off the fingers and toes. That's what he always have to have a last resort, because...

GUILFOYLE: I was so jack power (ph)

GUTFELD: Because it is not, it's not right. You're not doing your job...

GUILFOYLE: Right.

GUTFELD: If you don't have that, one last thing...

BECKEL: What if you...

GUILFOYLE: Eric.

BECKEL: What if you can get the intelligence that should do but not having to use those enhanced interrogation?

GUTFELD: That would be awesome.

PERINO: It's great.

GUTFELD: Because when you lead the last resort -- what I'm saying is --that would be wonderful if you could talk somebody into it or give them drugs or bribe them. But if you can't, you got to have that one little thing.

BECKEL: Well, the FBI, the police...

GUILFOYLE: And they also try other methods first, they don't just jump to it in one second. Anyway, Bolling you're trying to get...

BOLLING: So, torture that Dick Cheney points out is also making the -- having to make the decision to jump to your deaths on the 80th floor or burn to death and -- you know, one of the other that you're never going to see your family again. That's the real definition of torture, not what we - - not the -- enhanced interrogation techniques.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Allow me to finish this, Bob, I haven't said a word this whole -- let's hear, here's where we are right now, we're back to -- September 12, 2001, where the day after the towers came down, everyone was on their toes, they were vigilant, they see something, say something...

PERINO: Yeah.

BOLLING: Call a cop and the cops went after, they asked someone, taking a picture of a building, what are you doing? I'm going to confiscate that camera, we're going to see what you're doing, we're back to that. Because that's the only way we're going to get safe now. Instead of the PC crap that's going on.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: The terrorist saying, don't listen to our Hamas (ph) she don't a right to, really? I think you have probable cause now, especially with what's going on with ISIS saying, every wannabe Jihadist in America or around the world in the name of ISIS...

GUILFOYLE: Jumping the game.

BOLLING: Is getting in...

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

BOLLING: And killing somebody. Kill somebody for the hell of it, you can do it alone, you can be a lone wolf. So now is the time we have to go back and embolden, empower our Intel community -- let's enjoy and do these things.

GUILFOYLE: We're not hiding our hand behind their back.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Lets' not, let's not offend Muslims right now.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BOLLING: Guess what?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, don't offend Iran or China either, because they're not happy...

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: Excuse me. I'm not the last one they accused to that. Number one, and number two, why don't you take some ISIS prisoners, we've got some, let's water board them.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh, Bob.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: These decisions are not made like the people -- that people don't think, what sort of --

GUILFOYLE: Right.

PERINO: What kind of information might this person have, and it's --

GUILFOYLE: It's a much more thoughtful process...

PERINO: No kidding.

GUILFOYLE: And deliberative.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: The last thing I would say is that, over the last four months, we have talked about several of these lone wolf attacks, at some point, you have enough lone wolves that make up a pact. So, what Greg was saying this, that there is pattern here, we all know that. So we need to empower our police forces, to be able to do the intelligence for these possible lone wolves. This guy in Australia, this terrorist, he was an extremist preacher at the mosque.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

PERINO: They put in -- remember when the NYPD...

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, right.

PERINO: Was trying to figure out if that was happening in the mosques here and the government took that power away from our police force? I think we have to rethink that.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, all right, well.

BECKEL: Like most if we hadn't gotten into Iraq, this probably would not be happening at all.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Wait a minute 9/11 happened before that.

BECKEL: What would happen if we go to Iraq?

GUTFELD: 9/11 happened before that.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: It wasn't Iraq that did it.

BOLLING: Stop.

GUILFOYLE: Once we get here Bob, you're blaming the United States.

GUTFELD: No, you're talking about terrorist.

GUILFOYLE: You're blaming about terror attack.

GUTFELD: You're talking about terrorist.

BECKLE: I'm blaming a breakdown in intelligence that could have avoided 9/11.

GUILFOYLE: Coming up, thousands to the street this week and in three big cities have protest police, and they weren't all peaceful. We're going to show you something shocking, caught on tape that happened right here on to the street of New York City, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: On Sunday, New York Police shared a recording from last Saturday's march of what The New York Times calls a small contingent of protesters chanting, "What do we want? Dead cops."
Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?
CROWD: Dead cops!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want them?
CROWD: Now!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?
CROWD: Dead cops!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want them?
CROWD: Now!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?
CROWD: Dead cops!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want them?
CROWD: Now!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?
CROWD: Dead cops!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want them?
CROWD: Now!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do we want?
CROWD: Dead cops!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do we want them?
CROWD: Now!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: What a nice bunch.
It didn't look too small to me. If they were pro-lifers, of course, you know what have been labeled large and unruly.
Meanwhile, Eric Linsker, a professor, attacked two cops on the Brooklyn Bridge around the same time. Now this goon is grinning because he knows this just got him tenure, an MSNBC gig or maybe a job with the mayor who described the attack as "alleged." Just like your spine, Mr. Mayor.
The cops were trying to stop the ghoul from attacking officers that were there to protect the protesters. The cops were pummeled, kicked in the face and head. One broken nose, "allegedly." The professor also had a backpack full of hammers, "allegedly." Guess he's a roving carpenter.
Funny how "allegedly" never comes up when describing accused actions of the police.
But for some, this isn't about real protest at all, but using someone's death to unleash their own violent theater. They are the bigots they have been looking for.
Maybe if the professor had guts, he'd go here instead: The Patrolmen's Benevolent Association Christmas Party. These are the widows and children of police killed in the line of duty. They died so you can demonstrate. They died reducing murder across the city. They died protecting and saving the lives of minorities, creating perhaps the safest city in the world.
By comparison, you, Mr. Professor are pond scum.
All right, we actually, unlike Rolling Stone are our crack producers contacted the guy that filmed the -- the chant, to make sure it was legit, the recording, and it turns out it is, which is kind of scary, K.G. having a mob preaching death. Is NY -- does New York going to hell? Is our mayor give a damn?

GUILFOYLE: How awful is that? I tried literally to go out of my way every time I see a police officer on the streets of New York City, to look them in the eye, say hello, be friendly. Can you imagine what it's like...

GUTFELD: For them?

GUILFOYLE: To get in the morning -- yeah.

(LAUGHTER)

GUILFOYLE: The men and the women.

PERINO: Thank you Kimberly for helping all of us.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Yes. And just to look at them to say thank you and acknowledge them, because when they get up in the morning and they put on their uniform and they get dressed, they have to go out there knowing that they are persona non grata, doing a thankless job for not much pay, when you have people yelling dead cops. I mean, how horrible. How did he get to this point? You know, they are the good guy, that's the problem, they're putting their lives on the line every day, they have families they want to go home to as well, they don't get up in the morning and say, "I want to discriminate, I want to shoot somebody, I wanna -- it's like, pull it together, like try and be part of the solution, not the problem.

GUTFELD: Bob, I will say this, for the -- most part, the protest was peaceful. They were blocking traffic where I live, they were yelling and screaming at people. But, -- for out of 30,000 people, it could have been worse. But I want -- do you get the sense? That the mayor is scared to support or defend the police too much because they might upset the hard left that got him elected?

BECKEL: Yes, I think it's part of that. But just keep in mind, when you -- this, this whole setup here was to indict the left as part of the people who don't like the police. The left do like the police, I like the police and the idea of an implication that a few people on a bridge represents the entire electorate, they got --

GUILFOYLE: Nobody said that.

PERINO: No one said.

BECKEL: Go ahead.

GUILFOYLE; No, no one said that.

BECKEL: ... I said the implication was. And -- this implication that we do here -- I mean, I understand that, abide and do it.

GUTFELD: Can I ask you Bob, though?

BECKEL: But I think it's just ridiculous.

GUTFELD: Don't you think the professor is a hero among students and faculty member?

BECKEL: No.

GUTFELD: You don't think that perspective?

BECKEL: I think, I think most...

GUTFELD: They love Bill Ayers.

BECKEL: I think, I think most, not -- they didn't love Bill Ayers as one of them. And you know, the entire left is not endorsing this kind of thing. The entire left happens to support the police, and the fact is, that you take this little -- you take this vinettes (ph) and these horrible sounds they shouldn't have said and all of a sudden that represents the left.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

GUILFOYLE: So Bob, where -- no, but let me ask you to me, do you want the producers to make stuff up? Because where are the professors that are denouncing this kind of behavior is taking up for the cups, we are reporting in fact, what happened which was a crime committed by this professor, trying to be Mr. PC popular. Yes, will probably be celebrated in his classrooms than out the university.

GUTFELD: And on the other...

GUILFOYLE: Just like he said he wants the Muslims to stand up and say something when they see something that's wrong.

BECKEL: And they did, they finally did.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: So, when a police officer does something wrong, it represents a deeply rooted problem in the police force, but when a guy --

BECKEL: Who said that?

GUTFELS: No, you have said that, you have often said, you often talked about...

BECKEL: I'd never said that.

GUTFELD: There's a problem with the police.

BECKEL: About, about...

GUTFELD: You talked about your past with the police.

BECKEL: Yeah, I know, my past, it says try to used to be in New York City there was corruption out the max. It is not there now.

GUTFELD: OK. So you're saying these -- grand jury things are in no way representative of a problem with police department?

BECKEL: I think the grand jury in Staten Island was not a race issue. I think it was a bunch of uninformed yahoos, who came down with this decision. Turns out there are all white, none of blacks voted for it.

GUTFELD: That was blacks -- no blacks on the grand jury?

BECKEL: That's what I understand. Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: What? No, Bob.

BECKEL: So...

GUTFELS: That was blacks in the grand jury.

BECKEL: But I don't think that this was a racist.

GUILFOYLE: They were. That is an inaccurate thinking -- Sorry.

BECKEL: The issue was, yeah, but does the blacks did not vote for it.

GUILFOYLE: Bob...

BECKEL: 23 some --

GUILFOYLE: Where?

BECKEL: You need 12 votes to get an indictment?

GUILFOYLE: That's just wrong.

GUTFELD: I think -- we have two other people here. Eric, this gentleman professor got like nine grand of a salary from us -- task payers.

BOLLING: From group? (ph)

GUTFELD: Yeah, yeah.

BOLLING: And you're right, the vast majority of the protests were peaceful protests. So, let's -- don't go crazy on me here. So, they're allowed to say what they want. They can say kill a police if they want. I mean, we have to rap music says. It is literally by 20 different rap songs. The F song sort of illusion to killing cops or killing -- good people, people -- the people, military people, good people. But when a professor brings -- now, he brought hammers, he was going to -it was about allegedly -- allegedly about to throw a garbage can from one level of the Brooklyn Bridge?

GUTFELD: Right.

BOLLING: To the lower level -- with people below (ph)

GUILFOYLE: There could have been kids in the cars.

BOLLING: Right, so, he took it one step further, he is the one who took it to the area where it becomes not just peaceful protest first to amend it protect the right, to breaking the law, and he should be arrested. What's with the smug smile though?

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: I really...

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Here's to the best thing that happened from the whole weekend. The NYPD told de Blasio to stay home.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: It was...

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

BOLLING: And they said, you know what de Blasio? Stay home, we don't want you here.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: We got to get...

BECKEL: Liberal professors are here that is one of them? (ph)

GUTFELD: Yeah, they were -- in are all silent clapping, Perino, last word.

BECKEL: Oh, come on.

PERINO: Because it says that this is a part of -- that we have a short -- short on time, he was 29...

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: And a professor. I mean, come on.

GUTFELD: Yeah, yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

PEIRNO: Everybody going to learn from that?

GUTFELD: Yeah. He had his passport with him.

PERINO: I have -- I have lots of it. I saw peaceful protests in Charleston.

GUTFELD: Really? How was it?

PERINO: There's -- they where -- they were protesting down -- King Street.

GUTFELD: I think the protests are -- fine, I don't like it when they get really close to the cops' face.

GUILFOYLE: No.

GUTFELD: I don't understand that, because basically they are saying, I dare you.

PERINO: They are trying inside the ride (ph)

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: The cops don't have anything to do to defend her.

GUTFELD: The cops just sit there and stare.

GUILFOYLE: They should have scram.

GUTFELD: Next on The Five, the biggest lies of the year, Dana's got the whole list of them, stay tuned.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: The Washington Post just released its annual roundup of biggest Pinocchios of 2014, and this year's top whoppers were listed in no particular order. But it began with the president's repeated claims that he never referred to ISIS as a JV team of terrorists. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO LIP)

CHUCK TODD, NBC ANCHOR: Long way, long way from when you described them as a JV team. Was it bad intelligence or your misjudgment?

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: Keep in mind, I wasn't specifically referring to ISIL. What I said was not every regional terrorist organization is automatically a threat to us that would call for a major offensive.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: That, of course, wasn't true, and the Post fact checker, Gwen Kepler, had an unreleased interview with the president that showed the New Yorker reported followed up on Obama's initial remarks saying the JV team he just referred had just taken over Syria, meaning ISIS. The president responded that he understood that.

That earned the president a full four Pinocchios, There's been lots of them on both sides of the aisle this year. We follow the news closely here.

Eric, last year's biggest lie was if you like your doctor you can keep your doctor. What was your favorite of this year?

BOLLING: So mine wasn't on the Washington Post fact checking. I'm not even sure if they fact checked it or not. But when Hillary Clinton came out of that -- into the interview and said when we left the White House, we were broke.

PERINO: Dead broke.

BOLLING: Dead broke. I mean, I laughed out loud. We talked about it here. She -- whether or not they were net positive or negative, within the first year, they made $11 million. She knew that -- those speaking engagements were lined up. She knew they were going to be extremely wealthy the minute they walked out of the office. I think they're worth over a hundred million dollars a few years down the road. For me, that was the lie.

PERINO: That was the big lie?

BOLLING: That was my biggest Pinocchio.

PERINO: Yes. Yes, definitely. OK, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I picked the Agenda Project Action Fund, which is a progressive nonprofit gripe which masterfully, and you can see it on YouTube. Blamed the Republicans for spending cuts, said they were costing Ebola deaths directly related to the Republicans because they refused to do funding, which was completely false. There was no evidence whatsoever to support it. But it was part whatsoever of to support it, but it was probably just overall Democratic...

GUILFOYLE: I've got four Pinocchios, too. It's a big Pinocchio too.

PERINO: It wasn't just Democrats that got targeted on this list, Bob, what was your favorite of the year?

BECKEL: Well, my favorite was back during March when you all were breathless about ObamaCare changing the world and changing everything about us. House speaker John Boehner said there's been a net loss of people with health insurance. In fact there was a net gain in the millions. That will show you the kind of propaganda Republicans have on ObamaCare.

PERINO: All right. Greg, did you have one.

GUTFELD: Yes. Best lie of the year. I think everybody can agree, Red Crown, high test live. It's fantastic at making anything you need to disappear, and trust me, I use it a lot.

Also that kale isn't made of people. That's a lie. It's made of people, kale. Don't eat it.

PERINO: I knew I didn't like it.

Next, the most fascinating person of 2014 was named on Barbara Walters's annual special last night. Were you surprised by the choice?  It wasn't Bob.

But a lot of people were surprised. "Most Fascinating People," that's coming up on "The Five."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK

BOLLING: Barbara Walters returned from retirement to host her "10 Most Fascinating People" special last night. Among the honorees in 2014, Taylor Swift, Oprah Winfrey and one of the left's favorite villains, David Koch, who we'll get to in just a minute, but the top spot went to someone else, a spot formerly held by the likes of Steve Jobs, Nelson Mandela, Mother Teresa, and others. And this year, it went to...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARBARA WALTERS, ABC NEWS: Our choice for the most fascinating person of the year, let's see, how do I introduce her? I guess the question is, what does it take to fascinate one of the most fascinating men in the world?

She is known primarily through her spouse, and while we know little about her, we know a great deal about him, and he has fascinated many women, especially me.

(voice-over): This is Amal Alamuddin, George Clooney's beautiful bride.  You could say hers was the wedding of the year. Well, let's put it into perspective: it was really one of the greatest achievements in human history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: So I'm going to go to Greg first on this. All I'm thinking after hearing that is like, did she really just say that? "What does it take to fascinate one of the most fascinating American in the world?"

GUTFELD: I'm more interested in how she does this. Then she turns.

PERINO: Try it again. Try it again.

GUTFELD: I love that. By the way, you know me. I -- last year, if you remember, I am not fascinated by people. I don't like the word "fascinating." I'm fascinated by behavior. Like why -- why some men still wear saggy pants. I don't understand that.

I don't understand why people drink milk. It's a white fluid that comes from a cow. It seems almost perverse. I don't understand people who love sushi. Why are you eating -- why actually read Lena Dunham's book? That's fascinating.

PERINO: You should produce our show next year.

GUILFOYLE: Ten People I Hate the Most. OK.

GUTFELD: Why play the lottery? These fascinate me.

BOLLING: I plead guilty on all of those. I love sushi.

GUTFELD: You don't wear saggy pants.

BOLLING: I don't wear saggy pants. Not that you know.

GUTFELD: Let's all agree that drinking milk is weird. It comes from the bottom of a cow.

BOLLING: I'll give you that. Dana, our makeup artist came in and said, "Oh, that's a great pick." Sean (ph) and I were like, huh?

PERINO: She said it was one of the greatest achievements ever in the world. I guess I would have to differ there.

GUILFOYLE: You lost me there.

PERINO: I'm not -- I think this was a lot for ratings and society magazines. But maybe people are fascinated by her. I'm just not one of them.

BECKEL: I just want to know, if this is the greatest achievement in the history of mankind, what was the second?

BOLLING: This year?

BECKEL: Any time.

PERINO: Penicillin?

GUTFELD: Yes. You have a problem?

PERINO: No.

GUILFOYLE: Anyway. The point is, I would have preferred to focus on her accomplishments in law and working in human rights. I think that would have been more apropos, the fact that she got the guy.

BOLLING: She bagged him. She got the one.

GUTFELD: But her getting married...

BOLLING: Was very sexy.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: ... go with her with that.

BOLLING: She's the one who got George Clooney.

All right.

GUILFOYLE: Come on.

BOLLING: Also on the fascinating list was David Koch, a billionaire, who along with his brother, have been vilified by the left for donating money to conservative causes and candidates. If you need a refresher, here's just a sliver of the Senate majority leader's venom for the pair.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. HARRY REID, D-NY., MAJORITY LEADER: Radical billionaires are attempting to buy our democracy. Meanwhile, hard-working families, who don't have endless funds to dump into political campaigns, are expected to sit on the sideline and watch as two brothers try and fix every election in America to their liking.

The Koch brothers are willing to do anything, even exploit Americans suffering from cancer. It's time that the American people spoke out against this terrible dishonesty of these two brothers, who are about as un-American as anyone that I can imagine.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Well, I bet Reid and company must have taken a gulp or two when they heard the Koch brothers reveal where he lies, or I guess David Koch reveals where he lies on the political spectrum. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

WALTERS: You are not well-liked primarily because of your very conservative politics. Describe your political point of view.

DAVID KOCH, BILLIONAIRE PHILANTHROPIST: Well, I'm basically a libertarian, and I'm a conservative on economic matters, and I'm a social liberal.

WALTERS: You support gay rights. You support a woman's right to choose.  The conservative candidates you support, many of them, do not have those views.

KOCH: Well, that's their problem. I'm -- I do have those views.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: All right, Bob, you can take this one first.

BECKEL: Well, I mean it's a fine thing to say he takes those views, and I'll take him at his word he does. But the fact is, the people he supports do not. They're the ones who cast the votes. They're the ones who deprive a woman of the right to choose.

BOLLING: Dana.

PERINO: Well, anyone who is surprised by -- to hear David Koch's political views actually haven't been paying attention. This is not a secret. This should be well known. And if you're going to go after somebody, you should probably know that about them.

BOLLING: And he's always been a libertarian.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: He's been pretty open about that.

GUTFELD: I've got to tell you, that was one hell of a stimulating interview between those two. Wow.

Yes, but you know what it is? This is all about team sports. The right hates George Soros. The left hates the Koch brothers. And it doesn't matter how much you know about either of them. It's like you hate the quarterback of one team. They hate the quarterback of your team. That's all it is.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Look, they don't want to talk about all the wonderful things that they do: contributing to charity, to children's hospitals, to children with disabilities, all that they do for the arts. They're a very philanthropic family. No, they want to demonize them, and people are ignorant that speak about it. And you have someone say, oh, they're depriving women of the right to choose. I'm so sorry, have you not heard of Roe v. Wade? Women have the right to choose in this country.

BECKEL: Assuming the Republicans don't get to vote on it.

GUILFOYLE: It's just -- you know, because it's more hysterical behavior and rhetoric that is not backed up by any facts.

BECKEL: But George Soros -- George Soros does a lot of really good things for charity, too.

GUILFOYLE: Good. But I don't sit there and say things about him, make personal attacks.

BOLLING: He does? He does? I'll listen if you have any.

GUTFELD: Charity's the name of a stripper.

BECKEL: Can I give it to you tomorrow? I'll give you a list.

BOLLING: OK.

All right. Coming up, a potential GOP 2016 candidate who Bob says scares him the most, made some moves this weekend. He'll tell you the news about Jeb Bush next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: Christmas, a good gift for Democrats would be news that Jeb Bush has decided against running for president. But it appears Jeb is inching closer. He's about to release 250,000 e-mails from his days as the governor of Florida, as well as a new e-book. Another hint? He's been thinking a whole lot about the last guy to win the GOP presidential nomination.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEB BUSH, FORMER GOVERNOR OF FLORIDA: I think Mitt Romney would have been a spectacular president in this time. And he was proven right in a lot of his beliefs and ideas shortly after the election, as well. So winning with purpose, winning with meaning, winning with your integrity is what I'm trying to talk about.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: Well, I'll tell you, I'm a little surprised that he was so supportive of Romney, since Romney still hasn't decided not to get in.  But, you know, the thing about this, people say that the right is going to beat him, but there's so many candidates lined up on the right. The last three Democrat -- Republican nominees have been relatively moderate. So what do you think?

BOLLING: It's interesting to see how it's playing out. Because if you pay attention to the media, Romney is exploring, and you're not going to see a Jeb Bush and a Mitt Romney running at the same time. So it may be kind of a back and forth. If you allow what -- you may see a trial balloon to see how much interest. But it appears to me that Jeb Bush is -- seems to be all in, and it looks like he wants to run at this time.

BECKEL: Well, Dana, this maybe puts Rubio in a tough position if he decides to get in, if Bush does.

PERINO: I've never really -- maybe I'm wrong, Senator, but I've never thought that Marco Rubio was actually going to throw his hat in the ring this time around. There are other senators who are thinking about it, but I've never thought Marco Rubio was one of them yet. Maybe in the future he would decide to do that, in four to eight more years, depending on how it turns out.

I don't think the GOP is in a position right now to be narrowing any of its options. So let's hear them all out. And if Jeb Bush, I think, is smart - - I'm sorry, I don't think he's smart; I know he's smart. But this timing is interesting, because there's nobody else talking about it right now, so he can actually probably dominate the news for the next month and a half by just having his decision out there.

BECKEL: If you look at the ones -- if you look at the ones on the right who are almost certainly getting in, there's Rick Santorum; there's probably Huckabee. There is likely to be Rand Paul, if he gets in. So that's a lot of people on the right. And Bush sits sort of comfortably on the right of center.

GUTFELD: Yes, this is -- but do you know who's not going to be in the ring? Me. Because I...

BECKEL: That's a sad thing.

GUTFELD: It is because...

PERINO: You don't want to release your e-mails?

GUTFELD: The idea of releasing e-mails, it's like I've lived my life assuming that I wouldn't be in politics, so the things that I've said in my e-mails are disgusting, repulsive. My midnight poems to Lou Dobbs, if those ever got out, it would ruin both of us.

BECKEL: What -- what do you think about Jeb Bush as a candidate?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. My gosh, you've just crushed me. All the time I thought you were going to run.

BECKEL: Kimberly, what do you think about him?

GUILFOYLE: I -- I like Jeb Bush. You know, I'm a fan. I like the Bush family, all of them. So, you know, I like what they stand for. We have a couple of disagreements and stuff like about common core, but other than that, I think that he's a man that's willing to listen to reason, is highly capable and skilled. And I just want them to win. I want someone who's going to win and put this country back in the right direction.

BECKEL: I think there's two places he's probably most vulnerable from the right, is on immigration, because he insisted on an immigration finally put through, allowing people to stay and get in the back of the line. And the other thing is common core.

GUILFOYLE: Education, right.

BECKEL: But those two things, I mean, I don't know. I don't think that's enough to beat him.

"One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: "One More Thing."

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. You're such an odd little human. Dana.

PERINO: OK. It is "One More Thing." I get to go first. So on Friday, I told you about my college, CSU-Pueblo, Colorado State University at Pueblo, they were in the NCAA Division II semifinal game, football, and they played on Saturday night at 4:30 p.m. They beat West Georgia.

Take a look at this double reverse trick play of some sort, of a kind, and they make a touchdown.

BECKEL: A double reverse?

PERINO: And then there was, like, something or like an interception.  Anyway, the good news is that the Thunder Wolves are going to the final game. It's in Kansas City on Friday night. And Andrea Aragon (ph) and Darren Smith, my good friends, are going to be there at the game. So good luck to you, Thunder Wolves.

GUTFELD: Thunder Wolves.

GUILFOYLE: That was some color commentary.

PERINO: Thank you. Next stop, ESPN.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Whoa. All right, Eric.

BOLLING: OK. So remember also another -- some other good news in the sporting world. Koufax Ridgeview, first picture, they were playing for the Illinois state -- state championship. Seventh grade girls. My niece is on that team. And guess what? Next picture. They won it. State champions.

PERINO: Look at them.

BOLLING: There they are. And very quickly, there's River. She told me not to put her picture up. I'm sorry.

PERINO: Oh, she's cute.

GUILFOYLE: Hi, River.

BOLLING: Sorry, River. I'm a proud uncle of the point guard of Koufax Ridgeview.

PERINO: Wow.

BOLLING: Congratulations.

PERINO: She's tiny.

GUILFOYLE: I played point guard. That's the hot position.

OK, go.

GUTFELD: Real quick, go to Breitbart.com. I've got my "Gut Check" up there on the Sony fiasco and what it means for you.

GUILFOYLE: Wow. That picture is very devil's advocate. It's interesting.

OK, Bob.

GUTFELD: What are you laughing at?

BECKEL: Once in a while, looking back for many years, I try to get a little message out to folks that I am suffering from an unbelievably bad back, which is why I'm not quite as animated as I usually am. But it is so bad some days I can't get out of bed.

I would urge all of you, please, watch yourself, your back particularly. I let it go. I played football. I didn't do enough work on it. I didn't stretch, didn't do that. I'm paying a price. I may have to have a big operation. So please, all of you, please take care of your back. It's very, very critical.

GUTFELD: Send your back medication to me, and I'll get it to Bob.

GUILFOYLE: And be careful who you go out on dates with.

OK, my turn. And I have the most adorable pictures you have ever seen.  Yes, a sweet cutie patootie.

GUTFELD: It's Bob.

GUILFOYLE: No, it is not.

PERINO: It does look like Bob.

GUILFOYLE: It is Prince George, the royal baby. What a delight. And you know what was nice? They released these pictures also as a thank you to the media, because they have allowed the prince to live a rather unintrusive life, which is very nice. And he's super cute.

PERINO: That picture's cute.

GUILFOYLE: And they say that he's energetic, just like his father, tearing around Kensington Palace all the time.

GUTFELD: He's 20?

GUILFOYLE: That's it for us. "Special Report" is coming up next. Don't miss it.

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