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The Five

CIA director defends agency in rare news conference

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 11, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Dana Perino, and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

So today the nation's top spy held a rare press conference to defend his agency's following the Democrats release of a report on the CIA's enhanced interrogation methods.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BRENNAN, CIA DIRECTOR: In many respects, the program was uncharged territory for the CIA and we were not prepared. We had little experience housing detainees and precious few of our officers were trained interrogators, but the president authorized the effort six days after 9/11, and it was our job to carry it out. And whatever your views are on EIT's, our nation and in particular this agency did a lot of things right during this difficult time to keep this country strong and secure.

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

BOLLING: But was the program worth it? Here's more from John Brennan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

BRENNAN: Detainees who were subjected to EIT at some point during their confinement, subsequently provided information that add our experts found to be useful and valuable in our counterterror efforts.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think the bin Laden case can be attributed in some part to enhanced interrogation techniques or torture?

BRENNAN: It is our considered view that the detainees who were subjected to enhanced interrogation techniques provided information that was useful and was used in the ultimate operation to go against bin Laden.

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

BOLLING: So throughout the 45-minute news conference, Brennan never used the word torture once. He said officers involved in the program quote, "Did what they were asked to do in the service of our nation." So, Bob, yesterday you suggested Former CIA Directors George Tenet, Porter Goss and Michael Hayden, lied. Now do you want to add a fourth and friend of Obama's by the way to the charge?

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: I didn't think I used the word lie.

BOLLING: No, you did.

BECKEL: OK, fine. If I used the word lie, it was incredibly -- first of all, George Bush signed this order. And if you read the order and nothing in that said advanced techniques, number one, he didn't find out about it in 2006. The CIA by its own admission kept its information away from Secretary of State Colin Powell, because they were worried he would react negatively to it. The CIA's own cable said from -- that they thought they're bordering breaking the law and Rodriguez who is the person we highlighted here yesterday, is a stellar example of somebody said, -- he send a cable back saying, we shouldn't be talking about the law and then -- what?

BOLLING: But the question was and yesterday we brought this up, there are three former CIA directors who said that the enhanced interrogation techniques helped us, led us, kept us safe for led us to bin Laden.

BECKEL: Did he say he led us to bin Laden?

BOLLING: Brennan said the exact same thing.

BECKEL: He didn't say. He said in part, in part.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, what parts do you not -- do you wish they didn't have? I mean, how can you get to a whole if you don't have a part?

BECKEL: There's the -- the idea that somehow that this was only the way to get to bin Laden which the spin that a lot of people are giving you here is not true.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: I just love it. I mean, how ungrateful. You know, and then you called people who served this country fearlessly liars. That's what you are saying. It's disgusting. And no, it wasn't called torture. Enhanced interrogation techniques that were approved by the justice department that were legal at the time these officers carried it out?

BECKEL: They said it was.

GUILFOYLE: So, what problem do you have with information that led to the death of Osama bin Laden? Part or whole?

BECKEL: The same argument you give about how this current administration, the justice department do not prosecute because, it is the part of the Obama administration -- Holder won't do it, is the same thing this was the Bush justice department. They are not going to prosecute these guys.

BOLLING: Greg, any question that the EIT's that they used helped?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I think there's, there -- there conflicting opinions on that. I see -- I kind of believe that they did, and I actually do and -- by the way, when you compare water boarding to beheading, I still think we take the high road. I may be crazy, but I think we're better than they are even when we do a little bit of water boarding.

PERINO: Of course.

GUTFELD: We don't cut off their damn heads. How is this report -- by the way this report cost $50 million. What were they spending it on, crafts of coffee, plates of pastry? That could have done this report for 50 grand and a case of beer, it makes no sense to me -- that's the waste.

GUILFOYLE: And guess what else, they didn't even interview the people that were engage in doing this.

GUTFELD: I know, exactly.

BECKEL: And all their cables.

GUTFELD: Yeah, but you know what? Well cable, let's say Allen West wrote a 500-book -- 500-page slam on you, Bob, and never called you, what would you call him?

BECKEL: I would think it would be unfair to do it. I agree with you.

GUTFELD: OK.

BECKEL: I agree they should have -- I asked you a few question but they have, 6,000 page of information here.

GUTFELD: You know what? The other problem too by defending the CIA, there are people in the media that conflict that with championing torture. Whenever we say that we're defending the CIA for what they did. No, we simply understand the context of the time and their role in that context in an unknown the present and future, in which aberrations occur. So, I like to use the liberal term, it was for the greater good. We water boarded for the greater good. Because they've used that line with Mao, and with Stalin, it's of the dumbest programs in the world, so we water boarded for the greater good, that's liberal thing.

GUILFOYLE: Just like we do predator drones, right Bob? So, if you ask a guy, hey, do you want to get hit your whole family, your wife, your children, your grand ma, everybody by predator drone, would like to have a little water boarding and I know what they answer.

BECKEL: I think let's not have specific examples were grandma and kids were killed.

BOLLING: Can I get Dana here, Dana -- Brennan -- take us through Brennan. Brennan was there during those days and now, President Obama has appointed him CIA director. So, he's been on both sides of it. He's been there when the Bush administration was there. He's also been there when Obama was there.

PERINO: Yeah, and he's dedicated his career to government. I mean, I think we have to look at this and just say this is somebody who actually knows what they're talking about, extremely experienced. And somebody who is trying to hold together an agency, that's responsible for keeping all of us safe in the midst of a Washington, D.C. that thinks they are a bunch of liars and they have stained America. I think that he is facing a morale problem and a crisis of confidence amongst his -- the agents and the analysts and the people, the CIA are thinking, "Oh my gosh, is anybody gonna stand up for us." That's what he did today and -- I think he did a fairly good job of it. On the Senate Democrats report, this is not a Senate report by any stretch.

GUILFOYLE: No.

PERINO: OK. This is the Senate Democrats. The way that it's suggesting that it's OK, that they just read cables and they didn't talk to anybody who was actually involved in the program is the equivalent of doing a drone strike versus human intelligence, which is really what we're talking about here. The question of, what are you willing to give up? I'm if for the all of the above strategy, and I don't want to take anything off the table, and I hope that we are going to as a country reject the suggestion today by the United Nations, that the United Nations now wants to do an investigation.

BOLLING: Right.

PERINO: Perhaps, they would even talk to the CIA directors when our Senate Democrats wouldn't.

BOLLING: OK. Let's move on to this. One of the many outraged by the CIA coming under fire, Dick Cheney who was very fired up last night on "Special Report."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DICK CHENEY, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: I think it's terrible piece of work basically, there seems to me as deeply flawed, they didn't bother to interview key people involved in the program. What happened here was that we asked the agency to go, take steps and put in place programs that were designed to catch the bastards who killed 3,000 of us on 9/11, and to make sure didn't happen again, that's exactly what they did and they deserve a lot of credit. Not the kind of condemnation they are receiving from the Senate Democrats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: And Cheney went further.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: With that, Khalid Sheikh Mohammed is the mastermind of 9/11 who killed 3,000 American, taken down the World Trade Center, hit the Pentagon, would have taken out the White House or the Capitol building. If in fact, they hadn't been for the passenger on United 93. He is, in our possession, we know he's the architect, and what are we supposed to do? Kiss him on both cheeks, and say, "Please, please, tell us what you know" of course not.

BRET BAIER, HOST, "SPECIAL REPORT" This report says it was not successful.

CHENEY: The report is full of crap.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(LAUGHTER)

BECKEL: And -- I wonder if he read the report?

BOLLING: Well, he said he did.

GUILFOYLE: He said he did it.

GUTFELD: Did he read ObamaCare?

BECKEL: No, I don't.

BOLLING: Go ahead, Greg. I mean, he's fired up and frankly, it's kind of refreshing someone to see someone say, "I'm not backing away from the report."

GUTFELD: You know -- there are a lot of people, millions of people who hate Dick Cheney, because he's a -- he's a mean son of a B, Dana? But who would you rather have in your corner when fighting terror? I mean son of a B or say The New York Times editorial board who hates him. But the fact is, The New York Times editorial board only can exist, if somebody like Dick Cheney exists. It's his ruthlessness that guarantees the life of pacificist. You can't have peace nest, without war next.

GUILFOYLE: He's a realist.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: That's the thing. He's somebody who is unabashed his support and love for this country that is willing and ready to do what it take, and again, within the law. Someone understand that? You are trying to punish somebody for a crime that was never even considered a crime because now you have some moral disfavor with it? So really look yourself in the face and say, "Am I hypocrite? Because I have no problem with it then, like people on that intelligence committee, but now they have a problem with it.

BECKEL: Does that make Colin Powell a hypocrite who believes the chain he got in front of the U.N. and false information to get in the war in Iraq. Who would not given this information because they would've thought -- thought that he was upset, this is no, this is a bad idea. The president of the United States didn't get a brief on this until 2000 --

PERINO: Bob, you're taking that from the Senate Democrats report, from the cables.

BECKEL: No. I know that's the Powell (ph) is way before that.

PERINO: No, no. Forget -- I'm not -- let's not talk about Colin Powell.

GUILFOYLE: Not talking about Powell. 

PERINO: You have said several times that the president and the vice president were not told -- that they were kept in the dark by the CIA. That comes from the Senate Democrats report, in which they did not talk to any of the directors to ask them, "Did you keep something from President Bush?"

BECKEL: In the president's own book says that.

PERINO: The President -- no, that's not what he says. He said he -- and that -- we just him on tape the other day saying, that he believes that he had the information that he needed.

GUILFOYLE: And so does Dick Cheney. So they don't seem to be confused of the wilder (ph)

PERINO: I don't understand why you are you completely keep repeating that.

GUILFOYLE: Well, are you surprised?

BECKEL: You keep saying, we take the change -- the fact of the matter has don't believe him.

BOLLING: So, you are all looking back saying Bush, you know, there were -- there were at one point there's a congressional letter that was sent by 58 Democratic Congress people saying, we should look into whether or not George Bush was criminal -- in what he did with interrogations. Can you imagine 10 years down the road or 15 years down the road, a Republican Senate in Congress saying, hey remember Obama back in '14, he was droning people without --

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

BOLLING: Some merely droning people, killing some -- some collateral damage women and children, maybe he should be a war criminal.

BECKEL: I think it's a ridiculous suggestion to prosecute -- go after Bush. I agree with you on that that.

BOLLING: That's fair enough. That's fair enough. Intelligence Committee Chair Dianne Feinstein admitted on National Television this week, that she and her fellow Democrats had political motives to release the report. Listen to some of her critics, shared their thoughts on the senator, rolling all of this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS) 

DENNIS MILLER, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: I'm just surprised Feinstein didn't release the last week, so she could have been Times person of the year. Then degrading (ph) America right now, seems to be very (inaudible)

CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: The Feinstein she make none of the reputation of being a partisan. But after her now, she will have a reputation of bearing a grudge.

JAMES MITCHELL, FORMER AIR FORCE PSYCHOLOGIST: What I personally believe is that there is some sort of a, a beef with the CIA and Senator Feinstein and this is just her effort on the way out as the Chairman to smear the men and women there.

(END VIDEO CLIPS) 

BOLLING: Alright. Greg you want to take this?

GUTFELD: Well you -- OK. Why is the bar so low when it comes to facts these days, in any -- whether it's immigration, whether it's law enforcement, National security? It's because of politics. Politics was the wolf that we would bar at the door when dealing with National security, because we're all Americans. But, Bob, not you, but the left has succeeded in making all things political, including the personal, including safety. So now, whenever we discuss these things, what used to be what's best for America is now what's best for my political beliefs. And that's why facts, in terms of cases about, like the Rolling Stone story, don't matter as much. When you talk about facts about gun control, doesn't really matter, when you talk about shootings across the country, it doesn't really matter. It's about feeling and ideology. It's not about reality.

BECKEL: Well, it also the fact is that Dianne Feinstein here subjected the three people who are beating up on her. We didn't use one person who said something in favor about which are a lot. But of course we have are those are all out. The fact the matter is, Dianne Feinstein had long and very strong history with the intelligence committee, they like her a lot, and I think her feeling about the politicalization is I think she's right. If it got past January 1, the Republicans wouldn't have allowed to take the floor and do this candidate.

PERINO: Well they got past January 1 maybe they would have been insisted that the floor -- CIA directors actually be -- questions.

GUILFOYLE: To be the officers involved, yeah.

PERINO: To be included in the board.

BECKEL: Well, but they.

PERINO: And maybe that -- that I mean, I think it's better government to have done it that way. Which she did was so partisan, so -- uncharacteristic of her.

GUILFOYLE: It is uncharacteristic and I've known her my whole life and I have to tell that I'm very surprised that she's decided to do this and I'm sad that this is gonna be a legacy that's gonna to stick with her going forward to some fortunate.

GUTFELD: Well, she's my racket ball partner and I don't think I'm playing with her anymore.

BOLLING: Very good.

GUILFOYLE: Wise decision.

BOLLING: Alright, I leave right here. Ahead on "The Five," you'll never guess which countries are coming out to criticize us, the United States for human rights violations after that report's release. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: That loud rubbing noise heard around the world, it's our enemies kneading their hands in delight over America's self-loathing spine collapsing introspection.

Iran's supreme leader called the CIA report a "symbol of tyranny against humanity" and China asks the U.S. to correct its ways.

So, Iran and China are telling us to stop human rights abuses. That's like Michael Moore telling Kate Moss to cut back on Twinkies. That's like Rolling Stone telling you to fact check. It's like Miley Cyrus telling a nun to put on some clothes. That's like Bill Clinton telling anyone to pull up their pants. It's like Dianne Feinstein saying don't politicize our safety.

Iran, China, they treated their people worse than we treat our prisoners. Yet, here we are at that familiar place where our media and enemies agree, isolating those who protected us over the last 13 years.

Anderson Cooper -- not a bad guy -- said this on the CIA tactics.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, CNN, DEC. 9)

ANDERSON COOPER, HOST, "ANDERSON COOPER 360": When you read this, if you envisioned Nazis doing this -- and I even hate to say this -- if you envisioned the Khmer Rouge doing this, it all -- you can imagine that. I mean, it's not that far removed from stuff they were doing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Hmm. Andy, those groups you mentioned killed 8 million people. Our CIA water boarded roughly 40 -- not quite the size of your audience, but close -- and they did it to save you.

But you got to love China, creator of the great leap forward which killed tens of millions, and who pushed the one child policy that disappeared millions of girls. Note to American feminists, great work exposing that.

So, if you are in the military, what do you do when the people you protected for so long say "so long"?

Don't become a cop.

So Dana, since Anderson made that statement, he tweeted that that's not what he did. He didn't mean to make it equivalent between what CIA does and Nazi Germany and the Khmer Rouge. Do you think it was the -- well, I don't know -- that you'll like it.

PERINO: Well, in the sound bite and he says, "And I even hate to say this."

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: OK? Then next morning he said, "Obviously, I didn't mean what I said."

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PEIRNO: But he actually -- obviously, he was thinking through what he said, he did say it and.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: It shuts down conversation when you call someone a Nazi.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: There's like nowhere to go from there, there nowhere.

GUTFELD: Yet, you still do it to me. So, Eric, when your adversaries agree with your point of view, isn't it time to re-think your point of view?

BOLLING: Probably. Yeah, it's funny the world hates us until they need us.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: And now then they love us. And they love us for awhile, while we're -- you know curing Ebola and saving their people and making sure they.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Earthquakes.

GUILFOYLE: Floods.

BOLLING: And they hate us again once -- the disaster passed. We just -- were gonna fund the government to the tune of $1.1 trillion right? They gonna sign this thing, it's gonna become law. We've actually increased our foreign aid up to $49 billion. We're giving away $49 billion.

PERINO: It's not that much.

BOLLING: It's $49 billion.

PERINO: $49 billion in those schemes of things is --

BOLLING: How about a $1.5 billion to Egypt? How about $6 billion fighting AIDS? And listen, they all point -- they all a point of finger at us for the way we do things. But the way we do things frankly is allowing us to spend $49 billion on other countries.

PERINO: Correct.

GUTFELD: So, you know Bob, you're a big fan of China. You've said that many times with one of your favorite countries. You love that wall.

BECKEL: Yeah. It's wonderful.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: I wish it was higher and they would stay where they were.

GUTFELD: What do you -- should we listen to Iran or China?

BECKEL: No, of course not. This seems to me to have been an ideal opportunity for Barack Obama to come out and say, "Wait a minute."

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BECKEL: You -- what are you talking about? You guys, particularly, North Korea, Russia, Iran, you guys are some of the greatest human rights violators in the history of the world, and you're sitting and talking about -- and again, I go back I don't agree with what happened.

GUTFEDL: Yeah.

BECKEL: But the idea there's any kind of equivalency here is crazy.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BECKEL: And I think Obama had the opportunity to shoot right backed and say, "Shut up, until you gets your act coming up" and particular the Chinese.

GUTFELD: Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. 

GUTFELD: The White House argument might be.

GUILFOYLE: I like to what he had to say, I want to hold on to that moment?

GUTFELD: Yeah, it was very sweet.

GUILFOYLE: OK.

GUTFELD: And I wish President Obama would listen to Bob -- in awhile.

GUILFOYLE: Powell --

GUTFELD: When they talk. The White House argument could be that this is why interrogation was wrong, because it allows the enemies to criticize us and claim a higher ground, but they are going to do that anyway.

GUILFOYLE: But guess what? If you have thin skin, if you care, if you know that you have the moral high ground, you're doing the right -- you are actually affecting justice and national security for other countries as well, we're helping to keep all of them safe. Because, who is the first person they call when they need help? When they have people that are murdering and slaughtering -- slaughtering a committing genocide, you call the U.S. and we answer the call. Unfortunately now, this just proving to be one of the greatest propaganda victories for ISIS and Al-Qaeda, because they are gonna be able to recruit more people. See what the Americans -- see if they were bad, they're evil and they -- then again, putting the men and women that serve overseas in danger. Because there's gonna be some kind of act, preventions, retribution for something that we don't even do anymore.

PERINO: It makes a good point about propaganda. And I think that -- hopefully, when we get past this report and the Congress can reconvene in January, they are going to be a focus of helping the CIA, DOD, state department, others, deal with the fact that we are going to be in a 70-year long propaganda and ideology -- ideological war.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: This is not something that we're just going to be able to deal with in 13 years and move on like it never happened.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

PERINO: They are determined and they are going to use anything they can against us, but our propaganda and ideology --ideological war has to be superior to theirs and right now it is not.

BOLLING: Can I throw one quick thing in there?

GUUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: So, what's the big thing with Iran right now? This -- the nuclear negotiations, right?

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: Well, let's just turn around and say, "Really? You don't like the way we do business, we don't really like the way you do business anymore." But I don't understand why we're letting them go through with this. This is the worst thing in the world we can possibly doing.

GUILFOYLE: It shows.

BOLLING: You think China is a big problem? Iran is going to be a big problem, especially when they have a bomb. Trouble.

GUTFELD: Alright. Up next, Sony gets hacked and their sensitive emails get exposed. Does it actually matter what those emails say and should they bother to apologize? Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: Well, Tinsel town is on edge as leaks from the Sony hack being scandal keep on coming. The latest one reveals racially changed emails between two liberal Hollywood power players. Producer's Scott Rudin and Sony Pictures Chair Amy Pascal, mocked President Obama before attending one of his fund-raisers last year. Well, they joke about the president only liking black comedians or movies about slavery like, "Django Unchained" or "12 Years a Slave." Both have written issued statements today, apologizing for their remarks. Of note, on Pascal is a big time Democratic bundler, who's giving more than $30,000 to the DMC. Alright, so what do you make of this? You're scratching? You are concerned?

GUTFELD: I -- this is not a scandal. It's actually a crime, and we should not be reading these emails. Just because we're getting a political story out of this, that's wrong, because, this could happen to us.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

GUTFELD: This is no different than getting nude pictures, medical information, financial documents being taken and being put -- you oppose putting at any the cover, that's a disgrace, us doing a story this way. The silver truth is, this is going to happen to us. I have most -- I must have 15 years of e-mails, drunken e-mails, flirty e-mails, smears and slurs, God knows what I did.

PEIRNIO: Any pictures?

GUTFELD: When I was younger. Yes. And they are going to come out. And I tell you, if laugh at this and you think it's funny, these people are getting screwed, you're next. We'll be next. So we suggest.

BECKEL: How do -- how they get them?

GUTFELD: We actually happen -- start a movement where the media decides not to read other people's stolen e-mails. We should decide that, right now, that we will never read another person's e-mail if it's been stolen, because it's wrong -- even if we don't like that person.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Bob, you've never looked at anybody's picture or stolen e-mails.

BECEKL: Well --

GUILFOYLEL: I mean, we're talking about this because I think it's important, because it shows a serious lack of security and how prevalent hacking is. I think that's also.

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: An important aspect of the story.

GUTFELD: Absolutely.

GUILFOYLE: And there should be stiffer laws and penalties.

GUTFELD: We should not read the e-mails.

GUILFOYLE: Though I'm not.

BECKEL: Do you think it's gawker gets all the stuffs they get? They hack a lot.

GUILFOYLE: Listen, I'm not --

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: This is about a film. This was about that's -- on North Korea.

GUILFOYLE: It's not. This is about Sony.

BECKEL: Well, I know. But I was --

GUTFELD: That upset North Korea -- the North Korean government, and so they might have hired hackers perhaps from China to go in and screw with Sony. That's how this happened.

GUILFOYLE: OK. And now we've.

GUTFELD: But they will do it to Fox, at some point. They will do it to Fox.

BECKEL: Well, I'll you one thing, it would be a very tragic thing if that happened to me. In fact, I'm going to go erase everything I've got on there, because it would be a shocker.

PERINO: It doesn't matter.

GUILFOYLE: I've been in his phone. Let me tell you, you better have a strong stomach.

BECKEL: That's the truth.

PERINO: There's going to be a Senate Democratic report on it.

GUILFOYLE: Please delete all those pictures of me.

BECKEL: I got those. But I think you're right about this. If you can do it here, you can do it anywhere. And people's email should be your personal mail. The same as going into somebody's mailbox.

GUILFOYLE: And stealing from someone's home. I think it should be very stiff penalties for this type of crime. This is the whole -- the new wave of crime.

PERINO: The hackers want what we're -- hackers want what terrorists want, what mass murderers want, which is attention for their activity, and they want to embarrass the company and actually, to try to force them into a position. There's several anti-competitive things happening all throughout the tech industry, especially with like the Sony PlayStation, and Microsoft, whatever that play thing is.

It isn't unreasonable that you should be able to be candid and frank with your colleagues in your communications. If we sanitize our communications with one another to the point that we are like robots, we might as well just have robots do our work.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, I enjoy the emails that you send, especially when you're angry. Those are the cutest ones.

PERINO: Really? How about the ones I send in the morning?

GUILFOYLE: Those are my favorite.

PERINO: I don't even know, Bob.

BECKEL: I read those before I go to bed.

GUILFOYLE: You're going to bed and she's like awake. That's a whole other story.

Bolling, what do you make of this?

BOLLING: So I just read -- and this could be inferred. I just read that literally, they hacked into Sony. Their password was password.

GUTFELD: No.

BOLLING: For real.

PERINO: Sony, you bear some responsibility there.

BOLLING: You use password as the password.

GUTFELD: That's not hacking them. That's stupidity.

BOLLING: It was a wide-open door.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: Check this out.

The other thing that I find -- you're right, Dana, but I think you have to.  I think, giving what's going on with the other Hollywood celebrities, the way, you know, they hate Fox, they're probably trying to hack Fox right now as we speak, probably.

The smartest thing to do is, No. 1, continue to fix your passwords. Get rid of all your former emails, declare email bankruptcy on a weekly basis or a day-to-day basis. I mean, can you imagine how just -- it doesn't matter who you are. You could be the pope if you read his emails and the pope said that.

GUTFELD: Do you remember how the media loved Sarah Palin's emails? They loved her emails when they were leaked. Remember that?

GUILFOYLE: Bob has a personal question.

BECKEL: Can they hack into texts?

PERINO: Yes.

BECKEL: Oh, no. Oh, no.

GUILFOYLE: You've got to delete them off your phone.

BECKEL: I'm going to. I'm going to, man. I'm telling you. Where does all that stuff go? Does it go, like, into ether or what?

PERINO: Do you want a hacker to find out?

BECKEL: Some of that stuff is going to make some really sick.

GUTFELD: Imagine a giant cloud. That's where everything is floating.

GUILFOYLE: It's going to blow Bob's mind. It might explode on the table.

BOLLING: So in light of that, I know you don't want to talk about it, because the information was obtained via hacking, but when a big-time Hollywood producer uses some of the most racist -- I mean, Greg, if you or I said something like that on an email and it got exposed, I'm sure I would be fired.

GUTFELD: You probably would.

BOLLING: I'm sure I would.

GUTFELD: It's a lot like -- it's like the owner of the basketball team, Sterling. All that stuff was taken surreptitiously. And as repugnant as it was, it was taken...

PERINO: But these two, I think, would say that they had a relationship where they knew they were joking. They would have said -- I don't know if the Sterling thing falls into that category.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: But when you have a hacking, there's no context.

GUTFELD: You know what's interesting? This is about a movie, this movie about an assassination in North Korea. So it actually is inciting something. Perhaps the filmmaker should be jailed? Would that be interesting?

PERINO: For a probation violation?

BOLLING: It could also -- it also could be a disgruntled employee who was on the I.T. department.

GUILFOYLE: I think it's Kim Jong-un.

GUTFELD: Bob's deleting. Bob's deleting everything. Look at him.

BECKEL: I mean, it's just -- no, no, no, you don't want to look at some of this.

GUILFOYLE: Oh! All right. We got to go. We're going to look at his phone during the break because I have his password.

BECKEL: No, I changed it.

GUILFOYLE: No, you didn't. Coming up, the Rolling Stone reporter responsible for that questionable UVA rape story is caught on camera making a stunning admission about her reporting. The tape next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: OK. Rolling Stone's discredited UVA rape story is continuing to unravel. Students featured in the piece are disputing the alleged victim's account and also the reporter's version of the story. One of them says Sabrina Rubin Erdely never contacted him, but she wrote that he refused to be interviewed.

It turns out that this kind of questionable journalism may not be new to her. In this newly-discovered video from 2012, listen to Erdely admit to searching for stories that fit narratives she wanted to push.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you ever just kind of really want to expose a certain situation or topic and then kind of like shop around for a -- for like a more concrete story that would like -- that would be better for print?

SABRINA RUBIN ERDELY, REPORTER, ROLLING STONE: Yes. I absolutely do.  It's very hard when you find a topic and then you want to find the story, because then you have to find, like, the right story, and you wind up sort of pre-interviewing a whole bunch of people. It's almost like they're doing tryouts.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: OK, Greg, you were a magazine editor for a while. Did this -- anything like this ever happen to you, somebody bring you a story that was just full of holes?

GUTFELD: Stuff that was plagiarized or fake quotes. That's pretty bad.  What they're basically saying is it doesn't matter if the facts aren't there, because it's true somewhere. This particular case may be false, but somewhere else this is happening.

Well, if that's true, you should find that story. There were 14 English girls raped, you know, and that was kept silent for ten years. You could go chase that story.

PERINO: In England.

GUTFELD: Yes. Instead of fabricating one. But the one thing that is kind of troublesome is if you question the statistics on rape, these young activists will say you're minimizing rape when, in fact, what you're trying to do is maximize the facts, and they keep using the 1-in-5 statistic, which has been debunked, that one in five women have been sexually assaulted, which makes campuses more dangerous than actual Detroit. The statistics, according to the National Crime Victimization Survey, is 6.1 per 1,000. Not one in five, 6.1 per thousand. That's from 1995 to 2013.

Now, let's say 60 percent aren't reported. You can put that up to 15 per 1,000. But it's still not one per five -- one in five.

The reason why this is important is one in five creates a nation of victims but also a nation of victimizers. So that -- rape is a horrible thing, so horrible, in fact, you don't have to create fictions about it.

PERINO: So true. I wondered, Kimberly, if, given that it is an issue and she's a good writer, why didn't she just decide to write fiction? I mean, if that's -- if she's that good of a writer, you can make a difference writing short stories or a novel. The great American novel.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I mean, she might as well, then, go ahead and make things up, because the problem is that she's losing, you know, her journalistic integrity in the process in which she's going about seeking these stories and trying to craft it. And what she wants it to be for her own political narrative. So that to me is not a journalist. So you know, maybe go write some children's books. That would be less harmful, you know, than what she's doing here.

PERINO: Rolling Stone seems, Eric, to be trying to just hope that the storm passes. And do you think that they're going to have any sort of consequence paid?

BOLLING: Look what happens in the news. The news cycle is so fast. This is the same thing that happens when a news station, MSNBC, misreports something or one of their hosts plagiarizes. Eventually, it just goes away.

Chasing down a story, am I an idiot for thinking that that's what a lot of journalism is? I hear it all the time, saying we have a story. We want to look for this. And they start searching it out. And sometimes it takes them to a different conclusion.

Unfortunately, in Erdely's case, she couldn't handle the other conclusion.  She went with the original conclusion.

I think a lot of journalism, a lot of exposes happen because you start one thing, looking for something. You find a rabbit hole that leads you to something that is even more important or more interesting; and then you have the story. She was hell-bent on getting that story in the magazine.

Here's the point about the magazine, though. I've always liked "Rolling Stone." I know where they come from. I don't like their opinion; I don't like their point of view. But usually, I've always trusted what they're saying is at least researched and true. That's gone now, at least for now, unless they come back strong and, you know, really clean things up. And show me stories where you -- they're well-researched.

But I've got to be honest with you. I can watch -- I can watch a liberal television network. I can read a liberal newspaper or magazine and still enjoy it for the content. Not necessarily for the POV.

BECKEL: Well, just a couple things here. First of all, she's chasing the story. She also decided to do this at University of Virginia, which had had a long issue going on here about rape on campus that was not reported and other things.

So when she went to the University of Virginia as her backdrop, that seemed to be -- bring some credibility to it, because they had a lot of stories about it. And I'm sure the Rolling Stone said, oh, University of Virginia, they had all these problems. They had some credibility, but they didn't check. They didn't check. Somebody ought to pay a price for that.

PERINO: They didn't check, and also there were consequences. The university shut down all fraternities until January. And they were threatening to do a -- ban them all from campus altogether.

GUTFELD: They wanted to indict a white fraternity, and that was where they were going with this. If this were a gang in Philadelphia, Rolling Stone wouldn't have commissioned this story. Or if they did, they would have actually chased the facts. But they wanted -- they wanted to boil the witch. That's what they wanted.

BECKEL: What do you pay for a story like that, just out of curiosity?

GUTFELD: A couple bucks a word.

BECKEL: A couple bucks a word?

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: Still the same? What about with inflation?

GUTFELD: Well, it actually went down with the Internet. Actually, the price per word dropped. It used to be higher.

PERINO: So what about healthcare coverage?

GUTFELD: I don't know.

PERINO: I'm kidding. We'll continue in the break.

Next, think of Santa as an annual tradition for us on "The Five"? And we're about to find out who's getting who this year, so stay tuned. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: Yes, man. Ain't nothing like this time of year, Christmas. Just 14 days left, and that's when we give each other's presents. Now we're going to do our secret Santa picks. It's been three years we've been doing this now. And some people have done better than others. And mine have been OK. Actually, pretty good.

And so we've got enough time. Each one of us are going to get this. We're not going to tell you about it. We're not going to tell each other about it. We're going to give it out.

PERINO: This is considered really good television.

We're going to hand around things and we're not going to reveal it.

BECKEL: Kimberly.

OK. Yes, this is good TV, because I'll tell you what. Let me just open them and tell you.

BOLLING: No. Don't open them.

BECKEL: I'm only kidding.

PERINO: He's trying to get them out.

BECKEL: This is really good TV.

GUILFOYLE: This is becoming a joke.

BECKEL: Who'd you get?

GUTFELD: I already know who you got.

PERINO: There's only five people.

BECKEL: Greg.

BOLLING: Do you know, I got Dana three years in a row.

BECKEL: Eric.

BOLLING: Bob.

GUILFOYLE: Who did these? This is, like, becoming a joke.

BECKEL: Can I just say that...

GUILFOYLE: Am I getting another picture of you?

GUTFELD: I just got Kilmeade. I've got to go to a doctor.

PERINO: Does it hurt?

GUTFELD: Oh, it's painful.

BECKEL: I'd like to get. I'd like to get a sponsorship at a health facility.

GUTFELD: Whatever you're going to get is going to charge by the hour.

BOLLING: There's a gym on the third floor.

BECKEL: I can't use that, because I'm not an employee. You know that?  They won't let me in there, which is probably pretty obvious.

GUILFOYLE: Is it wrong to pray for somebody to have you?

BECKEL: Yes. I'm sure it is.

Now, Eric, you being one who's fairly frugal...

GUILFOYLE: I'll trade for Bolling for Eric and Adrian.

BECKEL: We were looking at ways you could do Christmas for 100 bucks or less. Do you think there's any way you can do Christmas for 100 bucks or less?

PERINO: Sure.

BOLLING: If you're going to, does this sound bad, do a gift certificate?  So that whoever you give...

BECKEL: No, nor the whole Christmas.

BOLLING: What? No, no, no, I think you're reading the story wrong.

BECKEL: That wouldn't be necessarily a mistake.

BOLLING: The whole Christmas?

BECKEL: It says here 100 -- that's what it says.

PERINO: Yes, decorate the whole apartment for $99.

GUILFOYLE: No, decorate. Not all the gifts.

BOLLING: You know the problem with that.

PERINO: You could if you don't do Christmas presents.

BECKEL: Well, you can't decorate anything, because you've got to buy it all from China. And they...

PERINO: Have you ever gone to the Etsy website? You can find a lot of great things on the Etsy website.

BECKEL: The S.T. website?

PERINO: E-T-S-Y, Etsy. People make -- make crafts, and they sell them online.

BECKEL: Greg, what do you want for Christmas. What's the one thing?

GUTFELD: Well, you know, if you want to -- I decorate my apartment quite economically. I just cry, and the tears are everywhere, because I hate the holidays. The best -- the best way to spend your money? On my book. It's a great holiday gift?

BECKEL: Oh, no.

GUTFELD: If you haven't purchased this for your father, your mother, your sister, your brother, your son, you are Satan!

PERINO: Your doorman.

GUTFELD: The doorman would love this!

BECKEL: Yes, sure. Now, Kimberly, what's your -- what are you looking for? What would you like to get, your biggest gift?

GUILFOYLE: Well, I actually right now, since I freeze in this cryogenic chamber every day, anything warm would suit me well.

BECKEL: Would a mink be in that category?

GUILFOYLE: Anything warm.

BECKEL: All right. Dana, how about you? What's your Christmas wish?

PERINO: What I would really love, in that vein, Kimberly, if there was a cordless cup warmer, like that you could put here. Like, it's rechargeable so that this could stay warm.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. Because Dana goes, "My water is cold."

PERINO: That would be great.

BECKEL: Eric, what's your wish? Your lovely wife is here in the audience.

BOLLING: I have a beautiful wife, a wonderful son, a gorgeous little dog.  I have everything. I'm good.

BECKEL: You must want something. Just name it. Come on. You must want something, don't you? You don't want anything?

BOLLING: I want -- I want you to come around to the conservative viewpoint by the end of the year.

BECKEL: That will be a lot of Christmases from here.

GUILFOYLE: The lights are about to fall (ph).

BOLLING: Soon as I said that, the lights.

BECKEL: Lights about to fall?

No, I could never be a conservative. I told you this I don't know how many times. My father said, and he took me into a voting booth -- I tell you this already? I did? OK, then I won't say it again. I won't say it again. OK. Greg, yes, we've heard that a thousand times. Although we have heard...

PERINO: We're all going out to dinner tonight as a family, and it's going to be really fun.

GUILFOYLE: We are.

GUTFELD: Bottomless bread sticks.

PERINO: I can't wait to spend more time with you.

GUILFOYLE: We're having our Fox Christmas -- our "Five" Christmas party.

I hope you brought your wallet.

BECKEL: I did.

GUILFOYLE: I'm having a steak tonight.

BECKEL: There you go. All right. "One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: All right, time for "One More Thing." K.G., you're first.

GUILFOYLE: All right. And this is a statement that was just released by former president George H.W. Bush, who we affectionately refer to as 41.  He also served as the director of central intelligence from 1976 to 1977.

He said, "Nearly four decades ago, it was my privilege to go to Langley to lead the men and women of the CIA at a contentious time during my short time there. I learned firsthand that they are among the very finest people serving in the United States government, whose selfless and often dangerous work, always behind the scenes, went unheralded. I felt compelled to reiterate my confidence in the agency today and to thank those throughout its ranks for their ongoing and vitally important work to keep America safe and secure."

BOLLING: Very good. Very good.

GUILFOYLE: A building is named for him.

BECKEL: Greg, you're up.

GUTFELD: All right. Everybody knows Tom Shillue. He fills in for me sometimes, and he's a regular on "Red Eye." He's also in a barber shop quartet. And here he is with Steve Carell and Jimmy Fallon last night on Fallon.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, "THE TONIGHT SHOW")

(MUSIC: "SEXUAL HEALING")

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: That was Tom second from the left. It's kind of weird but amazing that he's in a barbershop quartet. I do think he's a serial killer. I think he is. There's something about him.

GUILFOYLE: I'm so happy to sit across from him. That's really comforting.

GUTFELD: He's amazing.

BOLLING: All right. I'll go. So yesterday a guy who lives in my town, grew up in the town I live in right now, Ian Ziering, was in the building.  There he is right there doing "The Five." He's promoting a new clothing line, Chainsaw Basketball. Check it out.

He's the star of "Sharknado" 1 and 2. You have any video of that?  Remember that? Best television movie ever in the history of television, "Sharknado."

GUILFOYLE: He's a really great guy. Very nice.

BOLLING: There may be a "Sharknado 3." His Twitter is @IanZiering. And let him know that I absolutely have no time to do a cameo in "Sharknado 3."  It's just absolutely out of the question.

GUILFOYLE: You know, he's friends with my brother, too, Tony.

BOLLING: Wow.

PERINO: Am I the only one who doesn't know him?

GUILFOYLE: You can now.

BOLLING: Bob, you're up.

BECKEL: All right. This is a happy story for Christmas. Gage, a 6-month-old sheep, a friend of our executive producer, came from Margaret Vazquez's home and was found wandering through an Omaha neighborhood wearing a Christmas sweater. The hashtag #ChristmasSheep spread online and led to the reunion. The festive sweater-wearing sheep became a Web sensation after being found wandering around Omaha, a neighborhood Sunday night, and they sent it out on social media. It got millions of hits and thankfully the news eventually reached his owner, Margaret Vazquez. And she retrieved her pet, named Gage, from the Nebraska Humane Society at 6:30 p.m. Tuesday, getting there just in front of Porter Berry (ph).

BOLLING: There we go. Yes, let's move on. Dana, you're up.

PERINO: Speaking of Porter Berry (Ph), who's the executive producer that Bob always gives a hard time to, but we want to talk today about his dad, Bob Allen. He has a seeing eye dog named April, and she is a lovely black lab; and she is going to be retiring. She is going to be nine in January.  They've had an amazing partnership. You should see these two together.  Not only does she help him but there's a lot of love there. He's going to miss her very much, and they plan to get another dog from the same organization, which is called the Seeing Eye. So we wish them lots of luck with that.

GUTFELD: So does the dog move to Florida?

PERINO: When he retires? No, actually, he's going to California, though.

GUTFELD: Oh, wow.

GUILFOYLE: Very nice.

PERINO: With Porter's aunt.

BOLLING: He's not going to stay with him?

GUTFELD: What do you do when a dog retires?

PERINO: No, because then he'll keep working. The dog will never stop working.

BOLLING: We've got to go. That's it. Bret Baier on deck. We'll see you.  See you tomorrow.

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