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The Five

Garner grand jury decision divide

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," December 4, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Greg Gutfeld along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling and she looks up to Smurfs, it's Dana Perino. This is "The Five."

Adding the Eric Garner tragedy to other recent incidents is an understandable thing to do, but it's off. The factors leading to his death are different. Still, for many people this decision was a shocker: It doesn't make sense. We saw the video. But if you look closer, it's really not about cops vs. blacks, but government vs. citizens. The nanny state crushing the individual.

The grand jury might have screwed up, the tape paints a grim picture, but who knows. But the cop wouldn't have approached Garner if the law didn't make him. I don't believe for a moment that any man, even a cop, wants to wrestle a 350-pound man over a single damn cigarette. But let's face it, most of what cops must do, they'd rather avoid. Policing is a series a tough spots requiring sensitive and constant assessment. So why make it worse with idiotic, stupid laws?

I get it, store owners complain about people selling single smokes and the black market in cigarettes is huge because of the crazy taxes. It's an old story. I used to buy "loosies" when I was young and broke. But the only way to gain justice from this mess is to cling to the truth. Tying this to centuries of racism as a way to indict society may work for some, but for people who truly care about the city and not their own rising status, remember this one fact: You can buy one beer but not one smoke. Garner provided for those who didn't have the $15 a pack of 20 required.

Unnecessary laws have consequences and in this case that consequence was death.

So somebody agrees with me, and that is Rand Paul, always a smart fellow in my book. Here is him discussing the cigarette taxes.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RAND PAUL, UNITED STATES SENATOR: Some politician put a tax of $5.85 on a pack of cigarettes, so they've driven cigarettes underground by making them so expensive. But then some politician also had to direct the police to say, "Hey, we want you arresting people for selling a loose cigarette." And for someone to die over, you know, breaking that law -- the real is now excuse for. But I do blame the politician. We put our police in a difficult situation with bad laws.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: So Dana, obviously this isn't just a story about taxes. The video, the grand jury, there's a lot of elements here. But taxes, initiated the process that ended in death. And if we, we love to talk about root causes in the media, isn't that the root cause?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well the government -- I never understood -- well I guess I understand that there's -- the government has a lot of contradiction. One of them is that, the goal of taxing cigarettes more, so that people will by less cigarettes.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: Or fewer cigarettes. What happens though is the people still like to buy cigarettes and then the government gets hooked on the money that is -- provided. You say $5 to $6 a pack.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: Goes to the city and the state and federal. And what is one of the answers, every single time when you want to raise taxes in D.C., it's two- fold. They want to raise taxes in order to pay for other things that are on cigarettes or an alcohol. In this case, I think that you're seeing that self-fulfilling prophecy which is, we want people to smoke less but we actually want them to smoke more.

GUTFELD: Right.

PERINO: So that we can get more money.

GUTFELD: Yeah, yeah.

PERINO: You know what I mean? I'm not really crying.

GUTFELD: I know you, I saw you tearing up.

PERINO: And I'm not crying in one -- I'm not crying. I have an issue.

GUTFELD: Eric, Rand Paul, Paul is basically saying, focus on the root cause, but if that root cause isn't racial discord, that eliminates a lot of the -- justifiable anger of other activist. So, they might resist this idea. Does that make sense?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: I'm trying to follow this logic.

PERINO: Yes, I tried. I totally understood that.

GUTFELD: If you say it's about.

BOLLING: So.

GUTFELD: If you say it's about big government, but you have activists demanding more government, it actually hurts their cause.

BOLLING: Activists demanding more government. Look that, it's getting way too confusing for me. I think you and Rand are right, that unnecessarily causes and overburden some laws, put cops in situation where they have to take down an Eric Garner. Now, Garner resist arrest, he died for him, never should have die for that. You don't die for selling a loose cigarette. But, the real -- the root cause here is the law. The root cause is that the cops are forced to stop Eric Garner for selling a loose cigarette, so that they can protect their tax revenues. And that's really what it's all about. In New York, they are push to crack down illegal cigarette sells.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Do you really believe that?

GUTFELD: That's not an argument do you really believe that? You have to act on the spot.

BECKEL: Let me, let me give you an argument -- Rand Paul say is deflecting this thing off on taxes. The federal government, the body he represents, taxes the cigarette. So does the state of New York, so city in New York. I have not heard that there have been a SWAT Team running around and like people to -- trying to arrest who selling loosies.

BOLLING: But they saw.

BECKEL: Why do have police there to arrest the guy, I don't the.

BOLLING: Do you know there is a task force to crack down on illegal cigarettes though.

GUTFELD: You should send them to bar and all to stop smoking.

KIMBELRY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: This has been the new law.

BECKEL: I think there's the task force to transfer -- they're like it used to be when you brought liquor in, you brought the cartons in. That's what.

GUILFOYLE: But, Bob, do you really think that they wouldn't have stopped him if he was selling cigarettes if he's a 350 pound white man? He just stopped.

BECKEL: I think it's a silly argument and he trying -- it deflects (ph) of the point and he also said, I want Rand Paul to tell us. What he said, politicians ordered these police to do this, what politics?

PERINO: He know, he mean -- Bob, I think when I -- I heard when you said in agreement (ph) what he's talking about is when politician that are elected and acts laws -- it was bit larger over arching it. He wasn't suggesting that there was a single politician that could be pointed out that say, go and arrest Eric Garner.

BECKEL: So you could back when we said about anything being sold out on the street that's taxed, he sold for less, right? I mean, you sell cell phones for less, and all that stuff.

BOLLING: Can I just -- in the research, in March Governor Cuomo announced the formation of the cigarette strike force to crack down -- Governor Cuomo, politician.

BECKEL: Right.

BOLLING: Strike force task, fold, it strike the politician.

BECKEL: I got that, you don't waste your time.

BOLLING: OK.

GUTFELD: But you ask the facts.

BOLLING: You ask about illegal tobacco trafficking.

GUILFOYLE: He's like that.

BOLLING: There it is, exactly where we focusing.

BECKEL: My guess is that they're probably focusing on taking shipments of cigarettes, not cigarettes selling on the streets. BOLLING: I'm not sure that that's accurate.

GUTFELD: These are parts -- but I guess what you called nuisance crimes. Perhaps, there are store owners they are saying I don't want this person out in front it scares the customers, so that might happen. As this story unfolds, from what I learned, Mr. Garner was out there, he was -- the cops knew him, because he'd been arrested a number of times for similar things and he was trying to break up a fight but, the cops noticed he was selling cigarette.

BECKEL: I would agree on one thing, I do not think this is racial -- racial undertones here.

PERINO: Because you agree with it.

BECKEL: But I believe that this cops, killed this kid.

GUILFOYLE: Well, that's.

BECKEL: Absolutely killed.

BOLLING: We know that, that's fact.

GUILFOYLE: But no one is disputing that. That is -- but, police officer even apologized for the death.

BECKEL: I'm not sure of it.

GUILFOYLE: We know that the officer was the approximate cause. The point is, if the officer has the right along with the other officers to go up and approach and detain or question or take it.

BECKEL: No.

GUILFOYLE: Whoa, Bob. He just spends all this time.

BECKEL: So you just say, you can't still go. (ph)

GUILFOYLE: No, you're not listening. Did they have the right to go up and question and approach him because they saw him committing a crime?

BECKEL: Yes.

GUTFELD: The crime was, he's selling these cigarettes illegally et cetera.

BECKEL: The answer is yes.

GUILFOYLE: I'm not saying it's the worst crime of all, it's not. However, it's on the books. They can't just decide amongst themselves what they want to prosecute, what they want to go and stop somebody for. They're assigned, there's a task force -- a strike force, so they go up and they approach him. You're not supposed to resist. Is it horrible that he's dead? Absolutely. Is there a question because of the chokehold and whether this was excessive force? Yes. Did they put this to the grand jury like, they should have? Yes. And for some reason the grand jury came down with the decision they did.

BECKEL: That's, that's the big question.

GUILFOYLE: And we don't have all the facts and the video though.

BECKEL: And the judge let him, want him to release right? From the grand jury?

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BECKEL: And I have to see -- my blame here is on the grand jury and the prosecutor out there because this guy should be in jail right now.

GUTFELD: All right, we'll do -- let's go to the next -- sound on tape. I want to ask you, Kimberly, about Eric Holder announcing the new investigation and we have J. Christian Adams criticizing Holder's decision together.

PERINO: OK.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ERIC HOLDER, ATTORNEY GENERAL OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm here to announce that the justice department will proceed with a federal civil rights investigation into Mr. Garner's death. Mr. Garner's death is one of several recent incidents across our great countries that have tested the sense of trust that must exist between law enforcement and the communities they are charged to serve and to protect.

J. CHRISTIAN ADAMS, FORMER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: Something bigger going on here. These are attempts to delegitimize the system, the system of justice in this country and America by invoking this history that is way in the rear view mirror. These are folks who want to always blame law and order the police. They're always on the side of the lawless. It's a bigger battle than just what happened in Ferguson. It's an effort to delegitimize the American system of justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUTFELD: All right, K.G. --

GUILFOYLE: I think that's true.

GUTFELD: Eric Holder announces an investigation. Does that change the implication of the case so it's almost all about race? Because that's the only way can you do this, it's about a simple right.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

GUTFELD: Violation.

GUILFOYLE: Right. But he calling for an investigation every time he thinks it's politically inexpedient is nothing new. It's like B follows A in the alphabet, it's just going to happen every time. Now, I do agree with the larger issue which is that this is -- I think it concerted effort to delegitimize the American justice system. Nothing is good enough. No amount of hours or witnesses in front of a grand jury. Everything is assumed from a premise of injustice, of racism, of animus and distrust with the police department. Well, you never know how bad you respect, or need a police officer until a loved one or yourself is in a position to be harmed and you call the cops and were you appreciative. Because -- are any of us doing the job that they're doing?

GUTFELD: Yeah, and they don't.

GUILFOYLE: Anybody else want to do that job?

GUTFELD: It's not like the police are saying, hey, I want to get up this morning and go out and start harassing a black male for selling cigarettes, get him in a chokehold.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

GUTFELD: And tackle him.

BECKE: Can you tell who was on the shot, who was talking.

GUTFELD: J. Christians Adams.

BECKEL: Yeah, who is he?

BOLLING: He was the.

PEIRNO: He's a lawyer. He's a lawyer from the justice department.

BOLLING: DOJ.

GUTFELD: DOJ

BECKEL: And the current?

BOLLING: No, no, not anymore, he was though. Can I just clarify something? I think.

(CROSSTLAK)

BOLLING: As right as Ferguson did get it, I think New York got it that wrong. I'm on the same side that I think that there should have been.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BOLLING: At least an indictment for a lesser charge in there. I just want to make that clear. I'm not saying that I think everything worked out right in New York by that.

BECKEL: So we should just walk away from the city, grand jury did their job and that's it?

BOLLING: No, well -- OK. Here's the thing, it's the system.

GUTFELD: The police officers.

BOLLING: Here's the thing, it's the system. GUILFOYLE: There's -- a lot of parallels there.

BOLLING: There was a big, there was a big decision about 15 -- I don't know, O.J. Simpson that was a long ago. Where I think there was a miscarriage of justice. But you know what? It was the system, it was a jury of his peers, he was acquitted.

GUILFOYLE: Correct.

BOLLING: Of murdering his life. He'll live with it. It's not perfect, but it's the best system. GUILFOYLE: And then he was convicted, you know, there was a civil case again.

BOLLING: Probably in the world. Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: And he was found responsible. And J. Christian Adams was in the civil rights division, so he was overseeing these exact kinds of cases in the department of justice. Oh, so I guess a little bit of.

BECKEL: But wait a minute, but just say to ask for an investigation undermines the American judicial system, what's not him investigate? What's wrong with that?

GUILFOYLE: No -- what he's saying is there's more.

BECKEL: Like we said?

GUILFOYLE: Overall theme. That every time something comes out with a decision or verdict, et cetera find him that they disagree with, or it must be invalid. The system must be bad and we should throw it out. He say listen, this is a good system of justice, they're going to be outcomes that people disagree with, but that is our American justice system. It's better than any other in the world where they just take you out back and shoot you or hang you or behead you.

BECKEL: I'm not sure every decision that they do that, I mean that's.

GUTFELD: Dana, do you want to comment on this? I was going to ask you about how you see the media handling this case, will they learn from previous mistakes that we've seen in coverage that has led to chaos, by chasing the wrong facts and then finding out things didn't happen. Do you think this will be different?

PERINO: I -- it seems to be. And I was just looking at the front pages. And there's -- a lot of the people where at Grand Central last night.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: They were doing a lay-in (ph). They're very young people, most of them are white. And there -- I'm not against it. I think if they want to protest peacefully, and they're disrupting and if you think inconvenient for people that are trying to commute but, I think -- I don't know how is it will continue. But, it's not like this has been fairly responsible. I do wonder about the grand jury, though. I mean, I can understand saying that one person made a mistake, but do 12 people make a mistake? All together or how many are voted?

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: 23 and they needed 12 to vote to indict.

PERINO: Oh, Bob, I mean.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, here we go again.

PERINO: On the political level answer, on when you were asking about taxes.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: The way that really deals with that is to be bold as a nation and go to a national sales tax. That is flat and across the board so that you capture the underground economy or whatever you call it.

GUTFELD: And also lifts (ph) -- you can buy a single beer and put it in a bag.

BOLLING: How is that? Is it true that you can buy one beer?

PERINO: Yeah.

GUTFELD: I do it.

PERINO: Yeah.

BOLLING: No, no.

GUTFELD: I put it in the bag.

BOLLING: Not -- yes, you do it. If you do it legally, that's my question.

PERINO: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Why do you buy one beer offer? Almost three?

PERINO: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: What?

PERINO: No, about.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, Dana, you're not buying beer off the street, please. BOLLING: But the point is that -- the reason you can't buy a cigarette -- a loosies because they're buying them from -- let's say, an Indian reservation, they're not taxed there so they could bring them in on to the streets of New York so the void is tax. But a beer --

GUTFELD: Yeah. PERINO: You can go in and you can -- look, the alcohol people have better lobbyists than the tobacco people.

BOLLING: Are you 100 percent about that?

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Bolling, are you just discovering that you can buy a single can of beer?

BOLLING: K.G. GUILFOYLE: I don't understand.

BOLLING: I knew I could buy a single can of beer, I also knew I could buy a single cigarette if I smoke. I can buy by a single joint of weed if I want it too. I'm just -- baffled that it's illegal to do it if it's -- a cigarette, alcohol, but it's not illegal to do it, if it's an alcohol.

BECKEL: You can buy a single of vodka too.

GUTFELD: If Bob, I have a question for you before we go. How -- how do you subdue a suspect without potentially harming them who is in poor health? What would you do -- because you're -- you have health problems.

BECKEL: Yeah. I think it was.

GUTFELD: You know, how would I, how would I subdue you without --

BECKEL: It wouldn't take much, believe me. But, I think.

GUILFOYLE: I mean for real, would you sell cigarettes?

BECKEL: The fact they had five police officers and nobody's got a taser? I mean, they had to.

GUILFOYLE: Oh my gosh. And with some kind -- what if he had a preexisting cardiac condition, he taser him and then he died?

BECKEL: The police department allows you to use taser, they do not allow you to use chokeholds.

GUILFOYEL: I know but, now you want to taser.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: Better shot of that.

BOLLING: It was his heart that gave up right? Now, his --

BECKEL: I have no idea. Nobody against this grand jury being held in the -- D.A. out there is (inaudible)

BOLLING: Can we at least say this was not about race?

GUILFOYLE: It's not the D.A.'s decision.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: These are rules in New York. It has to be secret and the D.A. actually wanted to be transparent and made a motion and petitioned the court to release it and the judge made a limited ruling, comprendo?

BECKEL: I always -- I just wanted to see Dana's reaction whenever I call people punks like this.

GUTFELD: All right.

PERINO: I can't believe that.

BECKEL: Shoo Bob.

PERINO: Why would you do that?

BECKEL: I just do.

GUTFELD: All right kids. Is the White House helping or hurting in this uneasy climate, next on The Five.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: In the wake of the Brown and Garner grand jury decisions, racial tensions in the country have erupted. One African-American law enforcement official thinks the White House is fueling the fire.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERIFF DAVID CLARKE, MILWAUKEE COUNTY WISCONSIN: Race is an explosive issue in this country, has been for a long time. I don't know if it's going to get better but it had -- it was improving, there's just no doubt about that. But that wound has been opened again and some of it is because of the divisive politics that the White House has been playing. You know, look at the political strategy that's gone on, it's this fictitious war on women, pitting men against women, this -- fanning the flames of racial discord, pitting whites against blacks. This class warfare, the 1 percent, the rich tax, the rich -- on and on and on, it's pitting American against American.

(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: Also fanning the flames, frequent White House visitor and MSNBC host Al Sharpton, who held yet another press conference today to call for a march on D.C.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: Next Saturday, the 13th, we will be in Washington and we'll be demanding re-dress on these cases. Federal intervention had to come to the south, to protect people's civil rights and voting rights. Federal intervention must come now and protect people from state grand jury that keep exonerating any seeking of redress on police matters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: A man who cares not about the law, not about the facts, not about the evidence -- Al Sharpton, on a channel no one's watching. Bolling.

BOLLING: So, let's talk a little bit about -- here's what Sharpton's doing. He's making everything about race. Now, you can, you can try and apply race to what went, went down in New York, or can you be logical and say this is about police overuse, excessive use of force, which is more likely the case, that is what this about. It didn't matter if Eric Garner was black or white. It didn't matter if Mike Brown was black Right? Or white. If you reach into a cop car after you rob a convenience store, go for a cops, gun your gun and you got shot. It doesn't matter what color you are. But Al Sharpton has to make it about the race, because that's how he makes his money. Louis Farrakhan does the same thing, Jesse Jackson did it does the same thing. Instead of -- going after the root causes, like we talked about in the A-block, they go after -- they try to apply race to everything and that is unhealthy. One last -- President Obama and Eric Holder have the opportunity to make it more about what the root causes are, excessive use of force, yes or no, rather make it race.

GUILFOYLE: And about, about the rule of law, and respecting the citizen and the grand jurors.

BECKEL: Yeah, I'd be a little careful about Mr. Farrakhan. Or in Jesse Jackson -- Jesse Jackson is not mean, it's not Sharpton instead along. I've seen Jackson.

BOLLING: Farrakhan yelled out last week, "let's tear this place apart," those words.

BECKEL: I didn't say but he's not -- I think we're making Al Sharpton kind of the poster child here for this stuff, and he frankly saw but, it doesn't Al said, we got to be careful about. Is it the federal government did go in the south because the laws needed to be changed? The laws were on the side of the states and those laws were used to keep minorities from voting, from participating in equal opportunities in schools and in jobs. So, yes, the federal government had to go in. This is a status of mind. And for the police chief and I think he had some very good points but, the wounds he talks about here were not about Barack Obama or Eric Holder. These wounds, as he pointed out, were still there, those wounds are there. Now, the question is how do you do -- how do you deal with it? I don't see any answers yet.

GUTFELD: Speaking.

BECKEL: But, they're there. They are there. There is a sense in the black community that there is -- not a level playing field to look out.

GUTFELD: Well, if happen if you want to talk racism and justice in regards to Al Sharpton -- funny last night Lemrick Nelson, Jr. got arrested for drunk driving. He was passed out in a car in Newark and tried to drive away when the cops got him. You don't remember who Lemrick Nelson is. He stabbed the Jewish man, Yankel Rosenbaum in the crowd riots in 1991. He was acquitted in '92 of a hate crime, but then after 10 years of federal -- trials, he was convicted in 2003. Riot -- he killed a man in riots that were the product of anti-Semitic -- rhetoric. Where did that anti-Semitic rhetoric come from? It came from Al Sharpton. 30 people attacked and killed Yankel Rosenbaum, 28 are still out there never punish. Where is justice for that? So here's an interesting hypocrisy, after 9/11, politicians in the media made a mission to fight, what was called backlash against Muslims They were worried that people would go out and hurt Muslims. That's not the case here, nobody ever talks about backlash like, should they worry about Jews? Should they worry about the police after a crime? They never talked about that kind of backlash. And in some cases, in 1991, it actually happened.

BECKEL: By you know the sad part of that too is that never understood. It was the Jewish community that fully almost -- put all the money behind to the rights place (ph). But, they find out it, they went down on that, a lot of courage, they showed up, they did their job, stay side by side the African-Americans and now, for some reason this break between African- Americans and I think a lot of it has to do with our leadership. Because, it says, no, it's not based on anything I can see, that where the Jewish community has been a strong and powerful advocate for integration. I don't get it.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, well, you just wonder at the end of the day the amount of harm that Al Sharpton is doing. And in fact, when you look at the rhetoric in the beginning from President Obama and Eric Holder when Ferguson was happening, I mean, they have to look at themselves in the mirror and ask what, you know what part are they responsible for the aftermath of this? Real quick if we can, let's play Charles Barkley -- talking about police officers, another one of his controversial comments. Let's take it around the table.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHARLES BARKLEY, TNT NBA ANALYST: The notion that white cops are out there just killing a black person that's ridiculous. That's just flat out ridiculous. And I challenge any black person to try to make that point. This notion that cops are -- cops are actually awesome. They're the only thing in the ghetto from between this place being the Wild, Wild West.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Dana.

PERINO: But, but, hear the great thing about America is that on this program we've been showing all sorts of different sound bites from people all across the board. And we're all allowed to do it. There were some minor inconveniences last night for people that were trying to commute with some of the demonstrators but, overall I think that we are showing, once again, that we've got the best system, we can work out our problems in a way that lots of different people can show leadership. Happens to be Charles Barkley, might be someone that I tend to agree with. Although, I am trying to be sensitive to -- trying to put myself in the audience of Al Sharpton at that press conference, and I think he is quite persuasive for a lot of people. So therefore, there is an opportunity for President Obama where people are in times of confusion in America, you look to the leader of your country to try to give you some sort of way to go forward and to heal. And I think that is an opportunity that he'll either decide to take or not within the next week.

GUILFOYLE: And Bolling.

BOLLING: Can I just ask Bob -- just think about this for one second. Officer Darren Wilson in the cop car responding to a robbery, encounters a 320 pound white kid, who punches him in the face, tries to get his gun, and then goes -- turns around and starts to charge him. Do you think for one second, Officer Wilson wouldn't have done the exact same thing? Or do you think the Officer Wilson would shot because the kid was black.

BECKEL: I don't -- I can't answer that.

BOLLING: Right, you can't. And therefore, will you shoot him?

BECKEL: I'm not accusing him of doing that.

BOLLING: No, but Al Sharpton and his racist.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: And he said grand jury is a racist.

BECKEL: Please don't make me be an apologist for Al Sharpton. I've been up against Al Sharpton for years. So, I'm not going to sit here and defend Al Sharpton. I understand his game. But also understand that university is talking. Dana made a good point. You go to any of these rallies that he has and these people are believers.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BECKEL: In what he says.

GUILFOYLE: Right, Greg, really quick.

GUTFELD: A lot of activists and a lot on the lefts are demanding a discussion on race, but it always has to be on their terms.

GUILFOYEL: Right.

GUTFELD: You have to admit off the bat that you are racist. And the discussion on race to means, agree with me that you are a bigot. That's one when you see Charles Barkley you see a lot of people smear him because he's not playing the same story line. Everyone can talk race but they want to silence the ones that talk the most frank about it.

GUILFOYLE: They only want to hear is that you -- is they agree on your position and that's it. You got to have, like my.

BECKEL: I know, I know.

PERINO: Sharpton makes, Sharpton makes a lot of Americans just stop and listen in all together.

GUILFOYLE: That's the problem.

BECKEL: That's true.

GUILFOYLE: All right, good point, end on that.

PERINO: Sure.

GUILFOYLE: Ahead, what your profession says about your politics. We know folks in the media of biased, right? But that's not the only industry that leans one way or the other. And, Dana, well, she's got the data.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: Can you tell a person's politics by their profession? Yes, according to a company called Crowdpac. Using data from federal campaign contribution records, they were able to determine political bias by careers.

No surprise: People who work in the media, entertainment industry, and academia industry lean to the left. And if you're in the agricultural business, or building in construction or mining, you're most likely a conservative. And then there are professions they categorize as polarized, and they are hedge funds and private capital lobbyists and auto dealers and manufacturers. Gee, I wonder why. Right? On that one.

So Bob, the CEO of the company -- his name is Steve Hilton (ph) -- he says that the donation data is the heart of the Crowdpac model, because their research shows that campaign contributions are the best predictor of how a candidate will behave in office. In your experience, you think that's true?

BECKEL: Oh, yes, sure. And I also think -- I'm not surprised that all the hedge funds and lobbyists have split their money between them. But I don't want to tie into the conservative model here, but it's interesting to me that the conservative occupations are all those who are subject to government regulation, agricultural, mining and business.

And so there always are complaints about that. I mean, particularly the mining industry, which I'm a little familiar with, and agricultural, which you know, out in the west is very much controlled by various government agencies. So I'm not surprised to see that lineup.

PERINO: Kimberly, the way that they set this up is sort of like Match.com. So it's like a dating site, but if you want to think about what politician you might want to support, you can go to this site. Did you ever think that you would use Match.com to figure out your political...

BECKEL: Have you used Match.com?

BOLLING: That's a better question.

PERINO: She doesn't need to use Match.com.

GUTFELD: It's free to use Match.com. All you have to do is walk down the street.

GUILFOYLE: You know, I never quite thought of it like that. I guess it makes some sense, right?

But I mean, I agree with these categories. And when you see news and print media, except for some of us at this table, but generally speaking, yes, we see that. And it's reflected in the coverage and in the editorial content of their broadcast, which is, I think, the most difficult to accept in terms of a uniform categorization here, because that -- we're supposed to be doing the best job possible to present both sides and not have a slant to the news.

PERINO: Eric, if you were -- if you were a campaign consultant and you're looking ahead to 2016, and you want to try to move someone from left to right, do you think you can...

BOLLING: It depends on what business, I guess. But Bob -- Bob said, well, agriculture and construction, because they're under a lot of government regulation. Name an industry that's not. I mean, all of them are...

BECKEL: The entertainment industry is not that...

PERINO: Well, academia is fairly much -- pretty much funded by it.

GUTFELD: They have tenure.

BOLLING: So can I ask you one? All of these make sense. On the very conservative side, are all the ones that are generating a lot of income. Their burdensome tax structures probably bother a lot of them, so they donate to candidates that will lower their taxes and lower the regulations.

But what about -- why is banking and finance kind of in the middle? Why...

BECKEL: Because they are subjected to regulations, and they need both Democrats and Republicans.

BOLLING: And auto?

PERINO: Bailout.

BECKEL: Bailout money.

BOLLING: So they'll donate to candidates that will most likely bail their own companies out.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I have to get Greg in here. I can't leave out Greg. What are you talking about? Greg, what do you think it would take to get people to change their minds?

GUTFELD: I don't know. I don't know. I was a conservative in liberal media for a long time. I worked for a health magazine. The idea of being conservative is a non-organic enema. But you have to -- and you have to keep quiet. You can't talk about it.

But the political bias, as Kimberly said, are in areas that matter. Because they dictate the stories they tell. They pick the winners and losers that ultimately can lead to horrific consequences. They can -- they can create riots, if they want.

GUILFOYLE: True.

GUTFELD: And that's why I think the left activists in general gravitate towards the media, because they're smart enough to know that's where the power really is.

PERINO: All right, I've got to run. So Crowdpac.com. You can check it out.

Ahead, Maria Carey got panned for her performance last night at the Rockefeller Center tree lighting last night, and even she's apologizing for it. But was it really that bad? "The Five" judge panel rules next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Welcome back. Time for...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GRAPHIC: Fastest 7

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: ... the "Fastest Six" minutes on television: three alluring stories, seven agile minutes, one ardent host.

First up, with a big old flop, Mariah Carey hit the NBC stage last night, belting out a tune for the annual Rockefeller Center Christmas tree lighting show. Let's just say Mariah should have used Auto-Tune.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC: "All I Want for Christmas is You")

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Greg, you're up.

GUTFELD: Even the tree was trying to plug its nonexistent ears. I blame Mariah Carey for this trend of what's called melodramatic singing. That's where each syllable of text is a different note. It's ear vomit. It's not singing. It's basically speaking in tongues. She's the one that kind of perpetuated that -- it drives me nuts.

BOLLING: Especially when they do it with the "Star-Spangled Banner."

GUILFOYLE: I hate these (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Yes.

BOLLING: There literally is a software program that you can attach to a microphone that will tune your voice, but she didn't use that.

GUILFOYLE: It's like auto enhance on the iPhone. It just sparkles and brightens.

Listen, she can obviously sing. Did she have a horrible night? Yes. That was like her "American Idol" performance, she'd be voted off the first night. But she's also going through a very difficult personal time, splitting from Nick Cannon and was rushing from her divorce attorney meeting for child custody. Sorry.

BOLLING: Bob is welling up.

BECKEL: I could care less.

BOLLING: D.

PERINO: I didn't think she was that bad. And also, I love that song. That's a song I like to sing in my head around Christmas time, because you know where song that was played, in what soundtrack? It's in that movie.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, "Love, Actually," the worst movie ever made! Worst movie ever made. Worst movie.

BOLLING: Let it go. Don't hang up on that song for too long, because a big story, the "Fastest Seven."

The second story, though, it's better to give than to receive. Check out this mom, who's had it. She's taking Grinch to a whole new level by canceling the unruly kids' Christmas presents this year. Instead, they'll only be giving gifts, not receiving them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LISA HENDERSON, MOM CANCELING CHRISTMAS FOR HER KIDS: This was a way to say this is a consequence. Now just because it's a consequence, it doesn't have to be a negative consequence. Instead of giving our kids actual physical gifts, we're giving our kids the gift of perspective and the gift of really the true meaning of Christmas.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: OK, K.G., Ronan had a tough couple of weeks. Do you pull the Christmas gifts?

GUILFOYLE: No, it's so mean. I don't know. I like -- I like part of her idea, which is giving. Right? To focus on that aspect of it. I mean, aren't you going to be sorry for -- you know how much it's going to cost her in therapy for these kids?

BOLLING: That's true.

GUILFOYLE: Think about the dollars.

BOLLING: Bob.

BECKEL: It just underscores where Christmas is my favorite holiday, Christmas, where it's gone. I mean, you can't cancel the celebration of the birth of our Lord and savior by doing this stuff. And I think the idea that somehow we've gotten so much caught up in the -- in presents we lose track of what Christmas is, it's sad.

BOLLING: So you're OK with her, maybe.

BECKEL: No, I'm not OK with here, period. Plus, she has a terrible voice.

BOLLING: All right. Dana, your thoughts on -- do the kids get the understanding?

PERINO: I don't think you have to go so extreme. It could be like limits. Like say maybe you're going to have a dollar limit. You know, you can do that in a family. Say there's only going to be three gifts.

GUILFOYLE: Like we do here with our thing, like 20 bucks.

GUTFELD: OK. She did this for a blog post. Great parenting doesn't mean let's punish the kids and then thoughtfully write about it so I'll end up on FOX News.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: All right. Finally...

GUILFOYLE: You can do this.

BOLLING: You're going to hate me, and Dana's going to hate me for the rest of the day for this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC: "GANGNAM STYLE")

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Well, the video featuring the song "Gangnam Style" not only broke a record, it broke YouTube. Over two billion -- billion views, and YouTube had to upgrade its software to accommodate the two in the billions column. Now try getting that song out of your head. Sorry, D.

PERINO: Well, after we finish having the national conversation on race relations, we need to have a national conversation on your musical taste.

BOLLING: I didn't think -- I just wanted you to...

PERINO: You're like this, you like do the dance.

BOLLING: Can you imagine two billion views?

GUILFOYLE: And every kid knows this song, too.

GUTFELD: Tell me about it. The idea that humanity would have achieved a lot more if it wasn't for this is false. Because it didn't replace anybody's achievement. There wasn't a guy sitting at home going, "I think I'm going to invent a vaccine for Alzheimer's. No, I'm going to watch Gangnam Style."

GUILFOYLE: All I know is Ronan sings this still to this day, and all the time he says, "Hey, sexy lady." Like, whoa.

BOLLING: Bob.

BECKEL: At least it doesn't -- at least it's not all about Americans doing this stuff. I think this guy is -- you know, they usually go and get good math (ph).

GUILFOYLE: Bob has problems with the butt.

BECKEL: This guy gets it by doing this crap.

GUTFELD: All right.

BOLLING: We're going to leave it here.

BOLLING: You're really grump.

GUILFOYLE: What did you just say?

BOLLING: Bob is grumpy.

GUTFELD: He mailed it in.

BOLLING: ... in sixes.

GUILFOYLE: Bob, what did you even just say?

BOLLING: Next, New York City's former mayor has some very strong opinions about the current one, and he's not holding back. Hear Rudy Giuliani obliterate Bill de Blasio for his remarks following the Garner decision, straight ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: Ain't that the truth. following the Eric Garner decision yesterday, New York city's mayor shocked a lot of people when he said he's warned his own son to watch out for police.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL DE BLASIO, MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: Chilane and I have had to talked to Dante for years about the that he may face. Good, young man, law- abiding young man, who never would think to do anything wrong, and yet, because of a history that still hangs over us, the dangers he may face, we've had to literally train him as families have all over this city for decades. In how to take special care in any encounter he has with the police officers who are there to protect him.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Ay, yi, yi.

BECKEL: One of his predecessors advised de Blasio to warn his son about this instead. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: If he wants to train young black men in how to avoid being killed in the city, you should spend 90 percent of your time talking about the they're actually probably going to get killed, which is by another black. To avoid that fact -- to avoid that fact I think is racist.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: Eric, it's -- that's pretty severe statement by de Blasio, I must say. I assume he's telling the truth. He probably has statistics.

BOLLING: Because we need to point out that his son is African-American.

GUILFOYLE: De Blasio.

BOLLING: De Blasio married an African-American woman. His son is black. So that's where he's -- he's again saying using race -- and again, this is New York. Eric Garner case was police using excessive force. Not police being racist.

But again, here's another one who's going to apply race, because it's more emphatic. It gets more eyeballs. It gets more attention. Rudy Giuliani bit on it. I think he just let de Blasio talk and just kind of blab on. Because he really doesn't say very much.

BECKEL: And I would be crazy if I had a press secretary -- I mean, I know what the guy's trying to say. But it's probably a little bit...

PERINO: The mayor.

BECKEL: De Blasio. Probably a little close to...

PERINO: I think their press -- I think his press secretary is back in the background cheering.

BECKEL: You think?

PERINO: Yes. It's a different perspective.

BECKEL: OK. That was a good question to ask you. I sort of wanted to have...

PERINO: You wanted to have a moment, a connection.

BECKEL: Yes.

PERINO: I agree with something -- or I disagree with this. De Blasio says that the police are actually -- should be there to protect them. But that is what they do. I mean, he is the mayor. Does he not understand his own statistics?

BECKEL: I'm sure you agree with de Blasio here.

GUTFELD: That's my point. De Blasio versus Giuliani. The irony is you couldn't have de Blasio without first having Giuliani. You needed a tough Republican who historically lowered the crime levels to unforeseen levels in order to have a lightweight amateur progressive to come in and take the reins and embarrass everybody until we get another Republican back in.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BECKEL: Well, there you go.

I take it you agree with that smatter over there, right?

GUILFOYLE: Correct. I do, Bob. You're catching on.

BECKEL: OK.

GUILFOYLE: Lovely.

BECKEL: De Blasio is -- de Blasio is Irish, right?

GUTFELD: I don't know. That's not his real name.

PERINO: It's not his real name.

GUTFELD: I was going to say there's two Italian mayors, right? All right. "One More Thing" is up next.

GUILFOYLE: It's so irrelevant.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: Time for "One More Thing." I'm going to kick it up with...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Greg's Secret to Happiness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Now in 3-D. All right. Before I show this video, married men often can be single men for the potential for multiple relationships. But what you don't see is the stress. Roll the video.

Here's a man trying to juggle relationships. He's trying to please one, but he's beset by another. It never ends. And no one is happy. For it is better to focus on one love and give it all you've got. Because in the end all you have is two angry bears -- Eric.

GUILFOYLE: Is this like -- after your anniversary?

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: That was kind of sweet thing.

BOLLING: All right. Some things that don't go well together. Beer and cereal. Drinking and driving. Country music and Hillary Clinton.

PERINO: Oh, very good.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): She's a mother, a daughter, and through it all, she's a loving wife. Oh, there's something about her, this great lady, caring, hard-working, once the first lady. She fights for country and her family. Now it's time for us to stand up with Hillary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: I told you.

GUTFELD: That is the worst thing ever -- that's the worst thing ever made.

BOLLING: That's serious.

GUTFELD: I don't believe it. I think that was done by Karl Rove. Speaking of...

PERINO: There was a thing on Twitter. The Hillary country songs, and I had the best one. I said, "Something in the Whitewater."

GUTFELD: Wow, that's hilarious, Dana.

PERINO: If you don't get it, you don't get it.

All right. You want to hear about some extremely screwed up you know what? Get this: The European Court of Human Rights says that France, the government of France, violated the rights -- the rights -- of Somali pirates who had attacked French ships and ordered compensation for them over judicial delays. The European court is saying that France must pay them 9,000 euros because they were held in custody for an extra 48 hours.

GUTFELD: My goodness.

GUILFOYLE: This is where we're going.

PERINO: This is extremely screwed up you know what.

GUILFOYLE: This is where the country is going.

GUTFELD: Bob.

BECKEL: The -- we have another Christmas tree. And it's from Dana and my hometown in Washington. And that's the national Christmas tree. And President Obama and his family lit the tree just a little while ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Five, four, three, two, one...

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: And it's not solar powered, is it? It's not solar powered. It's not run by a windmill. This is terrible! What about climate change? What about climate change? Kimberly.

BECKEL: How do you know?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. That is so scary. Now I need to be comforted by Jimmy Kimmel and free sushi. Watch.

BECKEL: Free sushi watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Should I do it?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Think it will make me sick? I can't get sick before I go to Denver. (EXPLETIVE DELETED)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: I mean, you got to love it. Free is free. Free sushi sitting out on the sidewalk, who can resist it?

BECKEL: Disgusting, man.

GUILFOYLE: Nine minutes (ph), baby.

GUTFELD: Those poor little animals.

PERINO: The fishies?

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: My kid would eat that for sure.

GUTFELD: All right. "Special Report" is up next. My favorite part of the evening. And it's yours, too.

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