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The Five

The ObamaCare deceit: Mainstream media ignores Gruber tapes

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 19, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

It's important to understand why the Jonathan Gruber tapes are so relevant to every single American. They give us a glimpse inside the Washington political sausage factory. Professor for Gruber isn't a jerk. He's an accidental whistle blower. His videos tell the story of a president who is willing to do anything to get his way. But, you wouldn't know that if you watch other media outlets. First stop, NBC, where 11 days into the Gruber tapes and their evening broadcast, haven't mentioned Gruber once. Here's what's more important to the news people over at NBC.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BRIAN WILLIAMS, NBC'S NIGHTLY NEWS HOST: Every one of these brand new F150's coming off the line for the first time tonight is made from aluminum, a much thicker grade than what is in these soda cans.

Scaffolding failed, high above the city's streets on the tallest building in the city, the new World Trade Center Tower. This may be an example of the most they have gotten done at the U.S. Capitol in years. Perhaps, because it's happening over the heads of congress by about 100 feet, we got a rare look today at a spectacular restoration project under way.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLLING: No Gruber mentions. Second place lap dog goes to ABC who just came around to Gruber last night. Here's what they found more newsworthy in the meantime.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DAVID MUIR, ABC'S WORLD NEWS TONIGHT HOST: In alert for parents, McDonald's is voluntarily recalling a toy, founded its popular Happy Meals, the Hello Kitty birthday lollipop was sold.

Tonight, begging for money and what the cameras captured afterward.

The oil baron, the ex-wife, and one of America's biggest divorce settlements of all time.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BOLLING: All right, NBC's zero mentions ABC, just one. We'll bring in our K.G., toys, that toy thing, not Gruber.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: How -- Hello Kitty.

BOLLING: Hello Kitty.

GUILFOYLE: Lollipop. Since I have a boy, they don't give him the girl toys and it hasn't worry about that. But that's interesting it just goes to show you the priorities and the extent to which the media will go to dance around what's the biggest story of the day. That's the problem. But again, this is completely consistent with what they've seen -- what we seen from them, because their behavior, I mean they act like sycophants to the president and to the administration.

BOLLING: What do you think about calling Gruber an accidental whistle blower?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: No, yeah, but he was, he was honest. But all these scandals have one thing in common. The major media usually uses FNC as a reason to dismiss the relevance of the story we called it Fox News avoidance syndrome. The irony though if we don't cover it then the story never gets covered, so in a way, the MSN is saying, we don't want anybody to cover these stories at all, we feel better that way. Because, when you cover it, we look like fools. But I want to point out in this show, on A block we're doing ObamaCare, B we're doing immigration, C we're doing climate change. All of these three issues are predicated on one argument, it is for the greater good, no matter what you do, lie, cheat, whatever, it's for the greater good. This is fine if you're a political leader. If you're a leader, you're expected to believe it's for the greater good, but when the media believes it's for the greater good, that is criminal. Because, it's your job to question whether it's for the greater good, because you know it's never for the greater good. Your job is abdicated when you agree with them, you become scum.

BOLLING: Dana, we saw you sitting around in the newsroom, and your producer and you go, well, this hash tag Gruber thing, this Gruber's everywhere, it's been trending for 11 days straight, but they choose to ignore it. I mean, I got to think it wasn't an accident.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, but it is group think. And I -- it reminds me of how -- right after the midterm elections when Republicans, whether the debate was, was it a wave, but the media as a whole came down to the conclusion that it was really America voting against both parties and America voting against Washington, rather than the story being one of built up frustration with President Obama, the unpopularity of President Obama and his policies, plus the processes that they use to get things done. If I were in the newsroom, I wouldn't want to be dragged kicking and screaming to cover a story of corruption. But, often I think that's what happens. But, this story is getting around, it is going to have an impact, because people who are paying attention to voters who are calling up congress, they are the ones who are watching us, or on social media, they're well aware of the story.

BOLLING: $6 million to Gruber. I think America has an interest in this, no?

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: No.

BOLLING: I think one of the -- it's over the administration.

BECKEL: As soon as you're done asking the question, I won't answer.

BOLLING: We were playing.

BECKEL: OK, solitaire, yeah. Let me put this way, you said a story there about all aluminum cars which are light weight, and you use much less energy, yours run for the engine to (inaudible). Toys that are dangerous to American children, all of those stories are far more important to Gruber.

BOLLING: Well, no, OK. Let me --

BECKEL: Far more important.

BOLLING: There are people here who may disagree. However.

BECKEL: Obviously.

BOLLING: It's not a question of what's more important.

BECKEL: The producers to be in a way.

BOLLING: We didn't even say that NBC led with these or never led with Gruber, they never even aired a Gruber comment. They never even talked about Gruber.

BECKEL: I mean -- I don't see.

BOLLING: Clearly Bob, come on.

GUILFOYLE: You don't make us problem (ph)

BECKEL: God, I don't get it.

BOLLING: We don't even talk it? We talked about stuffs that isn't necessarily good for conservatives as times.

BECKEL: Yeah, it usually in my block. It's the one who put down there. I usually get the McDonald's stories. So, I mean, you know, I believe in awhile around here.

GUTFELD: But Hello Kitty is your common line.

BECKEL: That's right.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

PERINO: Oh, my God. But there they.

BECKEL: But obviously, I'm not.

PERINO: NBC's, NBC's chief political person is leading the chart Chuck Todd, he said, he's not, I don't know if you want to run it? Sorry. I'm not sure.

BOLLING: Just roll it. Go ahead, go, Chuck Todd.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) CHUCK TODD, JOURNALIST: And I'm not saying that it's not a, it's not a story. Look, I don't -- I'm not in charge of any of those network newscasts. But what is the news today, of that, it's a political story -- network news in general hasn't been covering the political back and forth of Washington, a lot lately. I don't think that has to do with Gruber specifically. I would just, I would just caution people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: It was aggravating. But you -- this is your, your set-up, but for me it was aggravating. The guy is White House -- former senior White House corresponds -- correspondent for NBC. The guy knows that it's a big story, but for some reason, just pretending.

PERINO: Remember also how the story gets started, it wasn't because anybody at any of these news organizations thought it -- found it. It was because of the citizen, so frustrated with ObamaCare, he's the one that found it and brought it to our attention. So it's actually and -- even more disturbing, I think the people, that the media's, why you look at numbers of the Democrats, the numbers of the presidency and the numbers of congress and the media all go down at almost the same rate.

BOLLING: A couple of years, Chuck Todd, would he have asked the question as a White House correspondent with Bush, was the one who had hired Gruber.

PERINO: I mean, this is the guy that this is -- he just wrote a book in which he explained President Obama saying that -- that people cling to their religion and guns because, President Obama sees things as an anthropologist was -- would. I mean, that's in Chuck's new book.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I don't think what you about.

BECKEL: Do you guys get on the line besides what would they done to Bush?

PERINO: No.

GUTFELD: Because it's inaccurate. Here's the issue.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: So Chuck Todd is saying like, we haven't really been covering a lot of back and forth in Washington lately. So what have you been covering? Bob snorkeling, camel wrestling, that's your damn job. Just admit you're in the tank for them. That's why you're not covering it.

BOLLING: What's the title of his new show? Meet the Press, and that's what they do, the press asks -- the politicians the questions, so the American people could find out what are really going about.

GUTFELD: Stop manicuring the goatee.

BECKEL: Listen, mostly.

GUILFOYLE: How do we remove them from their job then, because they are sailing to perform it on the daily basis, I mean, that's really the point?

BOLLING: Alright. It's.

BECKEL: They all cover of ISIS.

BOLLING: Bob, Bob.

BECKEL: That's a big story.

BOLLING: To be fair -- hold on.

(CORSSTALK) BECKEL: This guy is.

BOLLING: Wait, wait, wait. To be fair?

BECKEL: I said we're wasting our time.

BOLLING: Listen, listen, it's (inaudible) he covered it on Meet the Press, why is he covering for other people at NBC, who aren't go (ph) the Nightly News, when every American has a TV on, that isn't watching Fox, and by the way you should be watching, there's more proof you should be watching Fox. Why is he covering for them?

BECKEL: Well, he knew what's question, wasn't, in his room? Was it Chuck Todd?

BOLLING: My question is if Chuck Todd can cover it on Meet the Press, why didn't he say it, ah, it's not that big of a story.

BECKEL: Well, I've saying, didn't somebody ask you a question on Meet the Press about it?

PERINO: No, he was being interviewed on another show. Bob, do you remember though this two point about comparing things to the previous administration, which is the only comparison that we have. Did you remember the story about Armstrong Williams, and how that to grew (ph) into him the biggest story about how he was doing radio interviews and paid commentary for the no child left behind bill?

BECKEL: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

PERINO: OK. Like basically, run out of town. Believe me the press office in the White House was the only thing that they got to ask about. Everybody in the press briefing room asked Scott McClellan about that.

BECKEL: Yeah, but.

PERINO: And so, there is a difference. That -- I think that the media bias thing is a point.

BECKEL: That is a good example. Come on, you know Armstrong is a pretty smart guy, conservative. I mean, listen.

PERINO: And what he did is not agree to see was it longing.

BECKEL: That there is a bias against conservative black American, no question about that. But, that was a far bigger story than this guy is.

PERINO: Why? He wasn't lying. He wasn't as -- he wasn't basically -- he wasn't lying to congress to get legislation passed that would feather his own nest.

BECKEL: But then you're assuming here. You guys are assuming on the president of the United States is lying. I don't assume that.

GUTFELD: Like who?

PERINO: By saying that Gruber is lying.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Gruber admitted that he lied.

BECKEL: Have you thought everything he said is a lie.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: No, no. Here's an interesting thing, this is potentially worst -- OK. Everybody's mad about the WMD's. Everybody thought that was true, including your people. Including the Clintons, they thought that WMD is real. Take note that this is fake and they still believe it.

BECKEL: I never one time, not one you go through this videotape that I ever call George Bush a liar, ever.

GUTFELD: Oh, I can call Obama a liar. I have no problem.

BOLLING: It's in fact that isn't even really the point. I mean, Nancy Pelosi clearly lied, because we caught her on tape and on her Web site, it's far as President Obama. He basically said.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: He knows the guy.

BOLLING: Well, he knew but he was an advisor.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLLING: That kind of remembers him a little bit. And there are biddings upon -- 20 meetings in the White House. People saying, they put Gruber with him all over the place, even ask at people left and right saying that Gruber was instrumental in talking President Obama into delivering the message this way. That's the problem, call him a liar, don't call him a liar.

GUILFOYLE: They call it inconsequential consultant.

BOLLING: It's clearly playing around with the truth.

BECKEL: Likely.

BOLLING: Go ahead, K.G.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, I think he tried to deflect it and then just dismiss it, so we did in consequential consult -- but we see the truth as the matter is not that. I mean, I've like Dana said, is this a guy who's just completely incompetent and ignorant and just doesn't remember someone who was in the oval office, a dozen times and is in fact, the architect of ObamaCare?

BECKEL: Who said that?

GUILFOYLE: Who said what?

PERINO: And he was.

BECKEL: Who said he was the architect.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Go ahead.

GUILFOYLE: He is.

GUTFELD: I think everybody in the administration did at one time.

GUILFOYLE: Everybody knows that he is. He's the one. He is the architect.

BOLLING: It's true, 11 days.

GUILFOYLE: He was hired.

BECKEL: Well, I think now you're hearing this for the first time?

GUILFOYLE: Is it so big.

BECKEL: This is so big story among very conservative Republican.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Country should even know this part, right?

BECKEL: No, I -- go after, go after in the American as who won it.

BOLLING: Will the Democrats don't deserve to know.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: No, the other alternative is he's lying. Either one is that.

BOLLING: Let's do this. Guess who else finally found Gruber in newsworthy are appeal (ph) in Jonathan's story, hey Johnny boy. Two weeks later the party, I hope you bought something good.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JON STEWART, THE DAILY SHOW HOST: The Democratic leadership told us that the individual mandates in the Affordable Care Act was not a tax, even though they knew it was a tax, that's pretty slimy, I guess all they can do now, still for the American people and say, all right, we misled you, but it was for the greater good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have news here in the past few days about some of the comments made by Mr. Gruber.

NANCY PELOSI, HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES MINORITY LEADER: I don't know who he is.

(LAUGHTER)

STEWART: Can you ever not, not disappoint us?

(LAUGHTER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: Wow. Johnny boy, you should check the Supreme Court. They're the ones who said it was a tax and that's the reason they made ObamaCare the law of the land, OK? Watch that once in a while.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: You know the point was Gruber actually.

GUILFOYLE: Or may not.

BOLLING: Figured out a way to call it something that would could get past the Supreme Court.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: The other aspect of this is The New York Times is defending it -- defending it as well.

GUILFOYLE: Talking.

GUTFELD: They're providing more cover for Obama than a burqa. (ph) They say that even though Gruber says he tricked the public, he didn't really trick the public. Can an entire newspaper have fallen on his head, they will do anything, anything, there his publicist, his defender and his lawyer. So what do you do, what do you do when you find out a contest is corrupted, what it's the next thing? You got to have a do over. This requires a debate and a vote, that's fair and square, if you're against a vote -- of revote on ObamaCare, you know you're going to lose.

BECKEL: Is that because we should be for a revote because the bunch of stupid idiots didn't follow what they think what going on?

GUTFELD: No, because they lied about it.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: What a stupid idiot.

BOLLING: Hold on, hold on. What are you -- stop.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: What are you talking about the stupid idiot.

GUILFOYLE: Are the Democrats.

BOLLING: That voted for, or Democrats.

BECKEL: Well good. Then they don't want a revote.

BOLLING: The only Democrats, they want of this.

BECKEL: They don't want it, we don't want a revote.

BOLLING: So fine, you do the stupidity it saw about.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Can I -- on The New York Times editorial that Greg just -- just referred to right there, quote, "His comments should not be taken as evidence that the reform law was hatched in secrecy and foisted on the public by trickery." K.G., I'm not sure if not by trickery, then how.

GUILFOYLE: I mean, listen, let me tell you on this, Bob wants this, Oh, it does not matter, let's do the Hello Kitty story, right? But let me tell something, it is going to matter, and this is going to matter to 2016, because people do care about this, nobody likes this deliberate ruse over the American people and the total flagrant disrespect. And then people like elected leaders like Pelosi and the rest of them, trying to say that isn't true, we've got the tape, we've got the editorial to show that in fact that they.

BECKEL: Do you remember the tea party? I mean, excuse me, the town hall meetings with all that ObamaCare, every network, everybody covering them, people snare locked.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Yeah.

GUILFOYLE: They were right.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: What the point is that coverage

BOLLING: They were called racist.

PERINO: There's the point.

BOLLING: They were called bigots. They were called.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: In town meetings, that was a big story.

PERINO: Right, no, but the point.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Was to make fun of the people who showed up at the meeting.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

BECKEL: I don't believe that's the case.

PERINO: Yes, absolutely, that was the coverage.

BOLLING: Let's talk about The New York Times action --

GUTFELD: You playing.

BOLLING: Playing ball.

BECKEL: What is Al Sharpton (ph) today, by the way?

BOLLING: Playing ball. I do with about Al Sharpton?

BECKEL: Yeah.

BOLLING: That would too.

PERINO: If I going to say -- I think that the reason that -- your revote idea is interesting. I think that it's even more interesting coming up to January when the employer mandate which President Obama has pushed that has now delayed twice, it actually goes into place in January. Businesses have been starting to meet with their accountants recently, and in the last couple of weeks we start hearing more and more about people saying, how is this suppose to work? This isn't going to work? And -- I think that is why you'll see more pressure, in the next.

GUILFOYLE: For a reason.

PERINO: To have some sort of vote and maybe a revote -- would be powerful.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: You know why Dana? Because it's a fraud, it's a fraud that was perpetuated against the American people.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Bob, because Obama pushed it off.

BECKEL: But its still was going to happen, right? It was still going to happen.

BOLLING: Alright, Bob.

BECKEL: So what do you think you're going to look at it?

BOLLING: Quick thought before we go?

PERINO: I think I'll just.

GUILFOYLE: I don't have.

BOLLING: Perfect. Direction -- directly ahead. The president sets the stage for his big announcement on immigration. What can we expect to hear from President Obama tomorrow night? Details when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's official, President Obama will announce his plans for executive action on immigration tomorrow night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Tomorrow night, I'm going to be announcing here from the White House some steps that I can take to start fixing our broken immigration system. Washington has allowed the problem to fester for too long. What I'm going to be laying out is the things that I can do with my lawful authority as president, to make the system work better, even as I continue to work with congress.

(END VIDEO CLIP) PERINO: No jacket. OK, while the final details aren't entirely clear, some report suggests the president's move may expand visas for up to 5 million illegal immigrants. White House spokesman Josh Earnest said that the American people expect this type of leadership.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: By any measure, upon reviewing the actions the president's chosen to take, an impartial observer would conclude that the president has sought to maximize the use of his authority to try to solve these problems. And frankly, I think that's the American expects the presidents has to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Nice jacket. But, a new NBC Wall Street Journal poll finds that is not what the American want. Only 38 percent support the president's unilateral move on immigration. Greg, do you think that when they say that this is what the people want, but that's really what the people want.

GUTFELD: No, I keep saying every time I hear President Obama speak, Joe Wilson keeps getting vindicated. And I remember I said, that I didn't like what Joe Wilson said that time, when he said that Obama was lying. (ph) But every time I hear by go Joe Wilson's right. Look, President Obama keeps saying that immigration is broken. It's only broken because he's not enforcing the law. It's like he's a reckless driver who's blaming the road for his ticket. It's going to be, just follow the laws -- and you know what? There -- you only do things rash when there's an exceptional necessity. The exceptional necessity here is purely political. Creating a voting bloc, you think he's going to create.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

GUTFELD: Huge mass of people that going to vote. But you know what? Maybe these new illegal immigrants will be -- they're family minded, they're religious, they might be Eisenhower Republicans and you don't even know it.

BECKEL: How do you think 11 million got in here, if he's not following the law, why did he let me get it before he was even elected as president?

GUTFELD: Well, how did all, how did all.

(CROSSTALK) GUTFELD: Well you know what?

GUILFOYLE: No knows they did that.

GUTFELD: That's a good point. Maybe we should have a secured border.

BOLLING: Yeah, but I think the issue is whether using the executive pen allows four or five or whatever millions.

BECKEL: And not that, that many.

BOLLING: Whether that's falling on especially when you're on camera. And you and I talked about it. You can say a lot of things in private, when you say it on tape, time and time again that I'm not going to do something like that and then you go ahead and do it. You can be called either a liar or.

GUILFOYLE: And he doesn't care of that one.

BOLLING: Can I just ask you? Is everyone tired of fix the broken blank system?

GUTFELD: Yeah.

BOLING: Whether it's immigration, whether it's welfare, whether it's health care, they say what is -- he's doing this to fix a broken x-system, this time immigration. And all this things, this is what I want to do.

GUTFELD: They need to fix the White House, that's broken.

BOLLING: The broken presidential.

GUILFOYLE: The presidency is broken.

BECKEL: Do you know that those things are broken?

BOLLING: Immigration can be fixed, health care can be fixed.

BECKEL: Can be fixed. Yeah, that means they're broken.

BOLLING: Welfare.

GUTFELD: No, they can be maybe improved upon.

PERINO: Post security could be fixed.

GUILFOYLE: Alright, how about starting to follow the law.

GUTFELD: I'm sorry. He operates on the assumption that the United States itself is broken.

GUILFOYLE: Well, that's what he thinks.

PERINO: OK. Can I ask something new?

GUTFELD: No. I'm taking over.

PERINO: Kimberly, let me ask you something.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah.

PERINO: That one of the question is whether not the president has legal authority to do this. There are the disputes about that there are people who say yes, people who say no. I'm -- sort of sitting back waiting to see, from your legal perspective, do you think the president has the discretion under the law to be able to do up to 5 million people?

GUILFOYLE: This is how it splits. If you like him and your for his reckless ideology and you know mind people who just, you know, ignore the law, then yes, he can do it under executive authority and executive action. If you follow the constitution and the law, you see that he is in fact exceeding his powers and doing this because, this is what he wants to get done, he does not care about the criticism and he is actually not that concerned about the law. He's only interested in achieving his objective, and that's.

BECKEL: So you agree that Ronald Reagan did the same thing, right?

GUILFOYLE: I'm not having a conversation with you about Ronald Reagan.

BECKEL: Why?

GUILFOYLE: I'm talking about the news right now, Mr. President on the eve of the president's speech.

BECKEL: Oh, I see.

GUILFOYLE: Immigration and his agenda.

GUTFELD: There is a difference between the two.

GUTFELD: And what I'm telling you right now is he is using executive action, I do not believe that he has the authority to do so. And not only that's going to have the authority, we don't have the money for this, because this is directly going to impact Americans that are here legally, right now, paying taxes et cetera. Because, what we're going to do is give immediate benefits to all of the illegals that are coming in and they'll be have access to the welfare systems, et cetera. This is going to be.

BOLLING: So.

GUILFOYLE: Very costly, it is financially and economically reckless to the way it exactly.

BECKEL: If the Supreme Court, found it, this things going to go to the court obviously, it eventually the Supreme Court, you believe in the judicial system rules, that is the right to do so, would you then say OK, fine?

BOLLING: Can I say.

GUILFOYLE: If the Supreme Court rule is then, I will respect the law.

BOLLING: What like ObamaCare, like ObamaCare.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Yeah, exactly why? Why use the executive power when -- executive privilege, when the Republicans have already said, they agree they need the system needs to be fixed, and they like to come and bring something forward. Why do it in a month when -- one more month and you can open.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: Why wait? Why is just now?

BECKEL: Because first of all -- and talk to me.

BOLLING: No, no, why the ObamaCare?

BECKEL: Because I think the Republicans don't want immigration, I don't think they want these Democratic voters coming in.

BOLLING: But they said they wanted to.

BECKEL: I don't think they want this stuff because, they don't want.

GUILFOYLE: But they're on record saying.

PERINO: I'll tell you why, I am baffled by the politics, I've try to put myself in their shoes, trying to figure it out, I think that because the White House leaked so many details -- in the midterm election, they didn't up to it saying that he would do it by the end of the year. That the president is under tremendous pressure and.

GUILFOYLE: From the date.

PERINO: Two weeks ago when he said we're not red or blue America, we're the United States of America, we can work together, we'll get things done. He had no intention of doing that.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you.

PERINO: And I do think that all the good things that we've thought -- we've talked about leading up to the midterms about what President Obama could get done in a divided congress, is going to be -- much more difficult to do, going forward. Because, every one -- every one of these members of congress, their phones are ringing off the hook, telling them, do something to stop him. That's why he were re-elected, that's why we just had the way that we had.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, but it's tremendous amount of.

BECKEL: Do you think that's why, I mean, he is a serious guy. He was trying to (inaudible) but do you think that's why -- they know they can't override his veto, so you think that's the reason some of impeachment talk is going on?

PERINO: I think impeachment talk is brought up mostly by the media, who would love to watch that story and not by people who are in congress who are serious.

BECKEL: And?

PERINO: I think. OK, up next, should the debate over climate change be framed as a moral issue, likes to the right, when Washington Post columnist thinks so, and Greg will take him on.

GUTFELD: I will.

PERINO: When we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: So in the "Washington Post," David Ignatius calls the Republican stance on climate change "the politics of selfishness," an attack on civil rights. Right.

The smear exempts him from marshaling facts or defending the hardships he demands of you. It suggests those who disagree are immoral, for they don't care about the future or their loved ones or the greater good.

This is so old. Remember Mao's great leap forward: thousands of families grouped into single farms, forced to work together. Private property was banned, all for the greater good. Fifty million people died. That was no surprise. People saw it coming, but they had to stifle their skepticism even while stacking the dead, because defiance was seen as selfish. It hindered the greater good.

Now today we demonize skeptics, despite every climate model flunking their dire predictions, as warming has now paused for 18 years. Which ain't good, because even a little bump in Celsius saves lives.

Ignatius skips how oil and coal have pulled millions out of poverty, as well as the millions of deaths worldwide each year, caused by toxic heating sources.

Instead of vetting predictions, he embraces them, which ain't journalism. He even invokes "1984." How ironic: a book about thought crimes being used to halt skepticism.

And so we live in the opposite age of enlightenment, the age of endarkenment, where a moral argument means we have no facts, and the greater good demands everything but the truth.

So Dana, couldn't this argument be used on both sides? It's like you could say it's morally wrong to deprive school choice or hurt small business with wage controls.

BASH: Yes, in fact, I think I had those thoughts earlier, and now I'm not prepared.

GUTFELD: Because you e-mailed me that thought earlier this morning.

BASH: Yes, but so every issue, if you believe in it can be -- you can make a moral argument for why you would want to legislate something. I think that that would be fair. But also, you need facts to back it up.

Now, he doesn't say that in the article. He does think that the science points to...

GUTFELD: Right.

BASH: ... humans causing global warming. And he thinks that we should do something about it.

Actually, there's a lot of people that could agree with that. It's the practicality of how do you then get that done? And it is impossible to solve a global problem if you only have the United States skin in the game. I actually think more energy development here helps people all over the world better their situations today and also improve the situation of global warming going forward, because we'll have more resources to develop better technology.

GUTFELD: Eric, my alarm always goes off when people use this kind of reason where they say, like, you're not nice or you're selfish, about a political reason. Because that means they're dry on fact.

BOLLING: Yes, they're out of -- go for the -- Go for the heart.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: Here's what's really going on here. You always have to follow the money.

GUILFOYLE: His passion (ph).

BOLLING: So you have the climatology -- yes, thank you. So the climatologists have to support the research. They have to play that game. They have to talk about global warming while it's not warm enough. So let's call it climate change. Everybody knows what climate change is.

But also, the politicians, too. There are a lot of politicians who are on the bandwagon, because they're environmentalists. Tom Stier (ph) for one may be anti-fossil fuel. But that means they'll -- if you jump on that bandwagon, they'll support your campaigns. And you're on that bandwagon. Unless you're in a really close heat in Louisiana and you're Mary Landrieu going, "Well, I used to be anti-coal -- non-coal and other fossil fuels."

So follow the money, and you can usually see where people's ideology falls.

GUTFELD: Go ahead.

GUILFOYLE: I just want to follow up on that, because it is. It is about the money. It's about dollars. It's about government contracts and cashing in on this green energy agenda.

And the president made it very clear that he's going to stake the claim for the last two years of his presidency to push forward with this agenda, regardless of the facts or the truth. Ring a bell? This is what he's going to do.

So when you see people that are going to benefit from this, that are pushing this agenda, like you know, G.E. or you see stuff like this on Facebook or Google, whatever, this is why that works for them. They stand to be the beneficiaries of this agenda.

GUTFELD: Well, Bob, Eric brought up the Keystone Pipeline. Did that fail, because it really isn't about the environment. It's got trains. People that want -- people -- there are people involved who would rather transport the oil by train.

BECKEL: I hadn't thought about that. Maybe. I have no idea. But just to go back to one point here. There are reasonable people on both sides of this argument. There is plenty of science on my side of the argument, plenty on yours, and we could have this debate about this back and forth.

GUILFOYLE: And we have.

BECKEL: We have, right. But it's the people who flat-out deny it exists that I think are immoral. And I do think it's immoral to not at least...

GUILFOYLE: Why are they immoral?

BECKEL: Because if you don't accept the fact that the possibility exists, that you could have climate change...

GUILFOYLE: This is ridiculous, though, Bob. You're saying just because someone disagrees with an interpretation of the facts it's immoral?

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: It's not. Wait a second. I did not just say that to do that, because I believe in a lot of stuff, a lot of the facts that are on the side of global warming. Now you don't agree with that. That's just fine.

BOLLING: You just said there are facts on other side, as well.

BECKEL: No, excuse me. I said those who believe there were no facts on my side, none.

PERINO: And as soon as you make it a moral argument...

BECKEL: That's exactly what I said.

GUILFOYLE: But that doesn't matter. That doesn't make -- Bob, it doesn't make them immoral, do you understand? We disagree with your whole premise. Because just because someone has a different interpretation of viewpoint of the facts doesn't make them immoral. It doesn't make them informed. It might make them, in your opinion, ignorant, ill-informed.

GUTFELD: Bob you know what's immoral?

BECKEL: It's going to drive you nuts.

GUTFELD: You know what's immoral? The more we talk about this, the more we have for your block which is the most important topic today.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, it is. Sexiest man alive.

BECKEL: I want to get into immigration.

GUILFOYLE: Wrap, wrap, let's go.

GUTFELD: Next on "The Five," Al Sharpton is doing some damage control after an explosive report revealed some of his shady financial dealings. His response to the allegations when we return.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: Yesterday the "New York Times" published a bombshell report exposing Reverend Al Sharpton's financial woes. According to the "Times," records show the Rev owes more than $4.5 million in state and federal tax liens and faces personal federal tax liens of more than $3 million.

Sharpton vehemently denies any wrongdoing at a press conference earlier today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REV. AL SHARPTON, CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST: I think it's political. A lot of people don't like the fact that President Obama's the president. A lot of people do not like the fact that Bill De Blasio won for mayor, and they certainly don't like the fact that I'm still here. And I ain't going nowhere. I have not owed a dime in current taxes or in National Action Network taxes since President Obama or De Blasio has been in office. I just got to figure it out. I'll figure it out.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Get back to us, Rev, when you figure that out.

Of course, this is some kind of personal vendetta against him. Everybody always talks about how come Al Sharpton doesn't have to pay any taxes?

SHARPTON: Well, that's great. Who does the IRL target? They target the Tea Party. They don't target him. Tax cheating is the worst of his problems. People died at Freddy's Fashion Mart. The Tawana Brawley hoax. They destroyed people's lives by propagating a false story of mass rape.

Sharpton is more crooked than Lombard Street. And his past is alive and well today. He hates the police. He hates law enforcement. He hates the practices that made this city safe.

If New York City listened to Al Sharpton about law enforcement, he would make "Death Wish" look like -- I don't know -- "Sleepless in Seattle."

BECKEL: It's unfair to say the IRS doesn't -- doesn't pay any attention to them. They have got liens against him. They've obviously had -- they've been after him for some time.

GUILFOYLE: That's not what he said. He said that he didn't owe a dime until now. Face (ph) de Blasio and...

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: Here's the problem. When you have only one or two civil rights leaders as who stand out, who are well known, and one of them happens to be Al Sharpton. That is a problem for civil rights groups, for blacks in this country. Because that is the answer you have. Every day we've got to listen to that. And that's the problem. That's why there's no more...

BOLLING: But then, you know, if you're right -- and I would tend to agree with you --- why does he, the day after the midterm loss, elections loss, President Obama brings him to the White House. Why is he constantly, you know, at the side of Bill De Blasio, the biggest -- the mayor of the largest city in America? It's -- when politicians are giving him the platform and standing next to him for photo ops, they give him credibility. The guy owes millions in taxes. By the way, that's not some right-wing blog that's is guessing he owes taxes. It's the "New York Times" who did an investigation. I would guess they're probably right.

BECKEL: And I'll tell you what.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: In the black community, Reverend Al has a very strong following, whether you like it or not. And it's too bad because there should be others.

BOLLING: I'm not so sure that's true. You talk about that all the time. He can't get a rating on MSNBC. If they're not watching him on TV?

BECKEL: I'm talking -- well...

PERINO: I don't care who he is. He's an American citizen and he owes taxes.

GUILFOYLE: Pay the money.

PERINO: And the rest of America has been subsidizing his lifestyle.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

PERINO: And I think it's time that if I were in the White House, I would say, "You're not allowed back in here until this is solved."

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

PERINO: I think that's -- I think it's inappropriate.

GUTFELD: I would take that deal. If they say you don't have to pay taxes; you're not allowed in the White House. I'll do that.

PERINO: You think he would do that?

GUTFELD: That's a good question.

PERINO: I know he needs it. Because it's like his sustenance.

GUILFOYLE: I don't -- this is another thing. This is bad for the president. I mean, he's with him all the time. He's in many photos and photo-ops with him?

PERINO: Absolutely.

GUILFOYLE: He's giving them audience all the time to come in.

BECKEL: All the time?

GUILFOYLE: All the time.

BECKEL: All the time.

BOLLING: Reverend Al that he was going to be consulted on the next attorney general. Reverend Al is going to be part of the decision making with the next attorney general.

Come on. You want to know something? Gruber is the Obama care hoax. Reverend Al is the race hoax (ph).

PERINO: The first thing that Loretta Lynch (ph) should do is bring a lawsuit and force Al Sharpton into court and pay that money.

GUILFOYLE: God, that would be an amazing moment.

BECKEL: He's in court now. Obviously, he's got liens against him. Somebody gave him alien.

GUILFOYLE: Talk about no justice, Reverend Al, no justice for the American people, because we're paying our taxes and you aren't. Open up -- open up your wallet.

BECKEL: He's got a lien -- he's got a lien against him, which means the tax court put a lean against them.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Let's take it. Let's collect.

GUTFELD: He's certainly gotten leaner.

GUILFOYLE: Here's a burning question: who is "People" magazine's sexiest man alive? Sid Bob make the cut? We have the answer next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: Who picked that song out?

It's that time of year again. "People" magazine unveiling the sexiest man alive. And of course, I thought -- I know you thought I had a chance at the cover this time until I saw the winner revealed on "Jimmy Kimmel Live" last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY KIMMEL, LATE-NIGHT HOST: Have you ever played a superhero in a movie?

ROBOTIC VOICE: Yes.

KIMMEL: Does that hero use a hammer?

ROBOTIC VOICE: Yes.

KIMMEL: Are you Chris Hemsworth?

ROBOTIC VOICE: Yes.

KIMMEL: Is there anyone you would like to thank for this honor?

CHRIS HEMSWORTH, ACTOR: My parents, I guess. They had to pull this together.

KIMMEL: Yes, I think we're all very grateful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: Yes, brag about your genes, punk.

All right. Who do you think...

GUILFOYLE: So awful.

BECKEL: Who do you think should be the sexiest man of the year?

BOLLING: Well, besides you?

So Porter mails us, "Hey, I hope everyone picks the sexiest man alive."

And I'm like, "Porter, are you kidding me? Sexiest man alive?"

Do the only one I could really think of -- now granted, it's not the newest picture of him. But you'll get the picture. This guy. Reverend Al Sharpton.

GUILFOYLE; Oh, my God. In the track suit?

BECKEL: Back in the day, with the track suit.

GUTFELD: He was better looking back then. He was.

BECKEL: OK. Dana.

GUILFOYLE: You know, he was a trend-setter. Because it's all about the work out here now.

BECKEL: Let me guess. Who's the sexiest man of the year?

PERINO: Well, I only have eyes for one man.

BOLLING: Uh-oh.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

PERINO: This one.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, but he's a dog!

PERINO: Look at that picture, though. I mean, that is blue steel all the way.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God, he's your man?

PERINO: Yes.

BOLLING: Oh, boy.

GUILFOYLE: Greg is so upset right now.

GUTFELD: You just burned a hole in my soul.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I saw your face. I saw your true emotion.

GUTFELD: I was crushed.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

GUTFELD: This whole thing by, the way, let's point out is sexist. It's objectification of men. These magazine editors should be ashamed of themselves.

However...

GUILFOYLE: Who cares?

GUTFELD: ... sexiest male, who could it be but Lou Dobbs?

BECKEL: Wait, wait.

GUTFELD: Lou Dobbs is amazing. For 20 years, he's been nothing but sexy. They're not booing him. They're Lou-ing him. I've got the dibs on the Dobbs.

GUILFOYLE: Whoa. Who was your runner up? Was it Hemmer?

GUTFELD: No. There's no runner up to Lou.

BECKEL: What do you say, kid?

GUILFOYLE: Well, I took this assignment seriously, and I was torn between two men, which is often the case.

So I picked -- this is kind of an obvious one, although the two at the end of the table didn't guess it earlier today in the green room. Jamie Dornan for "Fifty Shades of Grey," which actually, I was going to pick Chris Hemsworth, and he got replaced by this guy for "Fifty Shades of Grey," and he's pretty fabulous. Nothing like a good Irishman.

And my second one is Gerard Butler, who I know and I've met.

BECKEL: Wow, this...

GUILFOYLE: And I loved him in "The 300." And in D.C. at the White House.

BECKEL: He's Eurotrash, though.

GUILFOYLE: What is wrong with you? Why do you disparage everybody?

BECKEL: I'm not disparaging him, but here's the difference. Greg, first of all, for you to dump on editors. You edited "Men's Health."

GUTFELD: I know. That's true.

BECKEL: They have the cover -- every week they have a cover of...

GUTFELD: We pretended it was about abs.

BECKEL: I see. Good.

Well, my choice is obvious. And I am obviously it.

"One More Thing."

GUILFOYLE: You chose yourself?

BOLLING: You can't do that.

GUILFOYLE: You chose yourself?

BOLLING: You're -- not even Teddy Cruz, your man?

BECKEL: That's a good point.

Teddy, I'm sorry, pal. My man Teddy Cruz. You and I will do it together. OK.

GUILFOYLE: He's your candidate. Yes, that was really it.

PERINO: I'm your own promo.

GUILFOYLE: I expected. No, I expected Bolling to pick himself, but...

BOLLING: What?

BECKEL: Oh, yes. "One More Thing" is up next. I said that already.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Time for "One More Thing," and Greg starts.

GUTFELD: First, I'd like to thank whoever sent me this unicorn horn goblet. It's delicious.

PERINO: My God.

GUTFELD: It's time for this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: Greg's Etiquette Tips.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Oh, gosh.

GUTFELD: All right. Very important tip. Before entering the bathroom, always knock.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, well, that was weird.

PERINO: I've seen this.

GUTFELD: Oh, you have?

PERINO: This has been on YouTube for years.

GUTFELD: Seriously?

PERINO: Yes.

GUTFELD: That bums me out.

BECKEL: What is this thing?

GUILFOYLE: Bob is so confused.

PERINO: The dog's so scared.

GUILFOYLE: Bark!

GUTFELD: You know, Amanda, this goes on too long. Am I on air now? There you go.

PERINO: Run. Run!

GUTFELD: You know, the good news is afterward they both got married in a tasteful ceremony.

BOLLING: Very nice, very nice. Dana, you're up.

PERINO: OK, I want to just consider this a public service announcement. Everybody has a phone. When you're looking at your phone, do you know that there's a new study that says that looking at your cell phone is the equivalent of putting 60 pounds on your neck. Sixty pounds is like having four ten-pound bowling balls -- not four 10-pound, sorry -- four bowling balls like this on your neck. And it can cause turkey neck, so that you have, like, wrinkles here. So you really have to be thinking about your spine. And sit up like this.

GUILFOYLE: And have amazing posture.

PERINO: Good posture is really important, OK?

BECKEL: Well, I got turkey neck, and I don't look at mine.

GUILFOYLE: Because you are. You're looking down at your phone. You're looking to place calls there.

GUTFELD: You don't want bowling balls on your neck.

GUILFOYLE: What did you say?

BECKEL: Who's up? Nothing.

GUILFOYLE: What did you say?

PERINO: Nothing. He did not say anything.

BOLLING: All right. I guess I'll go. OK. So show the scoreboard very quickly. That's from two nights ago and last night. The Ridgeview Mustangs won the sectionals. And why is this important to me? Take the next picture. That's my niece, No. 12, on the right.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BOLLING: Point guard for the Ridgeview Mustangs, and they're going to -- they won the sectionals, on to regionals and maybe onto state.

GUILFOYLE: Fantastic.

BECKEL: All right. Here it is, 1965, the average worker made $20, excuse me, $1, the CEO made $20. Guess what now? The average worker makes a buck, and the CEO makes $354. Isn't that just great? And isn't that a balanced and fair economy? Come on.

BOLLING: Thank you, Obama.

GUILFOYLE: Redistributor.

BOLLING: It's widened under President Obama.

BECKEL: Three hundred fifty-four to 1? You don't find that a problem?

BOLLING: It's widened under Obama. Go ahead, K.G.

GUILFOYLE: You like dogs?

BOLLING: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: Do you like puppies? You have lots of them. Check it out.

This is a contribution to the happiness of Americans across the country. Because this is a Great Dane in Pennsylvania who was pregnant. Nice. We'll have a litter of puppies. We'll think about our five or six friends we can give them to. Oh, no, they had a little X-ray: 15 babies. No, 19 puppies came out. Can you believe that?

PERINO: Is that a record?

GUILFOYLE: Snowy. This is the York County resident in Pennsylvania and it's Brandon and Amy Terrence (ph).

BECKEL: Nineteen out of one dog?

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BECKEL: That father must have been a hell of a dog.

GUILFOYLE: My gosh.

GUTFELD: They don't know who the father is. That's the problem. He just left.

GUILFOYLE: I knew it. Ruined my puppy segment.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: That's one mean dog, whoever he is.

GUILFOYLE: You know what? I thought, is there any way possible they can ruin my puppy segment? But yes, they can. No matter what my "One More Thing" is, it gets destroyed.

BECKEL: That's a big dog. That's a big dog.

BOLLING: That's it for "The Five." Bret Baier is next. He's loving us for that lead-in. "Special Report." Set your DVD. Bye.

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