WH downplays new claims about Gruber's ObamaCare role
Former Obama adviser says Jonathan Gruber put Affordable Care Act together
This is a rush transcript from "The Five," November 18, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle, along with Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."
Who is Jonathan Gruber? The architect of ObamaCare, or just an inconsequential consultant, President Obama can't seem to remember, but his former White House Adviser Steve Rattner, might be able to clear that up for him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVE RATTNER, FORMER WHITE HOUSE ADVISER: Jonathan was back in the day in 2009, the Gruber on health care. Well, I was on the White House he was certainly viewed as an important figure in helping to put ObamaCare together. And so, it's exactly what you said, the problem is not that Gruber helped put on ObamaCare together and he was the man, the problem is what it he's said in the last two weeks on how the White House has handled it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: And the White House is predictively down playing, Rattner claims of course.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: I'm not sure what the parts are, we have -- well, inside of this but, he was here. And yes he was -- OK.
(LAUGHTER)
EARNEST: And Mr. Gruber was the adviser, as the president himself said.
(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: And now that we know how the ObamaCare hoax was really passed and told to the American people -- what can congress do about it. Dr. Ben Carson thinks the law should definitely get another look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BEN CARSON, NEUROSURGEON: Our congress should stop and they should say, now that we know what's in this bill, and now that we know that there's been amount of subterfuge involved here, let's re-discuss it and let's vote again.
(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: Re-votes, re-discuss, Bolling?
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Can I just take about Steve Rattner?
GUILFOYLE: Sure.
BOLLING: Josh Earnest dismissed the miss (ph). That should be the cars are with no about ObamaCare. Let me tell you about Steve Rattner. Steve Rattner is one of the wealthiest people around. He was a Wall Street hedge funneled guy that they plucked off of the Wall Street and said, because he was so liberal against his liberal views, they brought him in to do the whole car, cash for clunkers, the cars are thing save the auto industry. He was touted as one of the most important people on the Obama administration around 2008-2009. Steve Rattner has a lot of credibility. He today said, yes, John Gruber was all over the White House, he was the guy for ObamaCare. Steve Rattner would know because, Steve Rattner and Jonathan Gruber was the same guy, Jonathan Gruber was for ObamaCare, what Steve Rattner was for the auto industry. So, stop riding him office, the cars are today, when they taunted him for the better part of the last five or six years. He accredits him with maybe even save in the auto industry. So, Steve Rattner is saying that Jonathan Gruber was the guy for ObamaCare. I take Steve Rattner's word for it. And by the way, there non many things I take Steve Rattner, his word for, he's so liberal, this one I do.
BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: I thought he linked his car, bill out.
BOLLING: I don't. But I'm gonna.
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: Oh I see, I see.
BOLLING: Steve Rattner was he -- the guy -- he was there.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: You do know him personally?
BECKEL: Very well, yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: I'll bet you know Jonathan Gruber too then.
BECKEL: I do not know Jonathan Gruber.
BOLLING: Interested.
BECKEL: But I said this, I don't know what Steve Rattner is any, what he would know about ObamaCare. But I think he. BOLLING: He placed Jonathan Gruber in the White House.
BECKEL: I'd rather take an Axelrod if you want about that deny when you say, Rattner's.
BOLLING: What's an Axelrod?
BECKEL: Oh, good.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: OK. So yours.
BECKEL: Then he didn't think that was important.
GUILFOYLE: Alright, well.
BOLLING: No, he didn't say that.
GUILFOYLE: OK, Dana, your take on Rattner and then if you would like to opine on a revote potentially on ObamaCare.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, I do think that the White House and other Democrats like Nancy Pelosi looks silly, trying to say that they don't know who Jonathan Gruber is, because obviously, they did. And they like his works and I ask him to do more work, and he was somebody that they consider the foremost expert. He's was also probably somebody that they worked with, to try to do what Gruber has said, which is that actively figure out a way to deceive the American people so that they can get ObamaCare passed. I think that with what the White House could have done is just say, yes, Jonathan Gruber helps us with ObamaCare, of course we think that his comments are ridiculous, and that would have been a way to solve it. Instead, they have perpetuated it. It makes people even more frustrated. On the revote issue, think of -- it's too early to say what is actually going to happen. Mitch McConnell and John Boehner will have to be working with their troops and they already are. I mean, think that -- 10 days from the election, they're already have a vote today on the Keystone Pipeline, but the things were in fairly quickly but, this decision about what to do, in particular about ObamaCare is coming at the same time that the president is about to do a big piece, executive action on amnesty and immigration. So, they've got a lot on their plate.
GUILFOYLE: They certainly do -- Greg, who is Rattner?
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: He is President Obama's id, that's what he is. He voices what every lefty believes but doesn't say. And he believes, like President Obama does, that Americans are not capable of leading their own lives. That believes -- that belief gives them the right to coheres us and to do anything's we don't want to do, because frankly, we're too stupid to make our own decisions. But this really is the political version of, "I didn't have sex with that woman." I mean, everybody is denying that they know Gruber. In a way its like, the 1987 movie Dana, Fatal Attraction, in which President Obama is Dan Gallagher, the attorney who has a fling with Alex Forrest, then close. It's all a lot of fun, everybody is having a great time, and in the elevator, it's disgusting. But now, he's running from her. He's hiding from her, because she's crazy. He can't admit how close he was to Gruber, nobody can. He is the Alex Forrest in the story,
BECKEL: Remember her coming out of the bathtub.
GUTFELD: Yes.
BECKEL: That was scary.
GUTFELD: Well, that's Gruber now. Gruber's coming out on the bathtub and the knife is ObamaCare.
BOLLING: And boiling rabbits all over.
GUTFELD: And boiling rabbit is our health care.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: More rabbits.
BECKEL: I couldn't figure is how you -- now I have them. Why the Republicans are so happy about Gruber?
GUILFOYLE: You figure it out?
BECKEL: Yeah, because 4 million or 5 million was under the Bush administration.
BOLLING: Really?
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: From 2000.
BOLLING: Not actually.
BECKEL: 2000 yet.
BOLLING: Some of it was actually.
GUILFOYLE: Somewhat, right?
BECKEL: Some.
BOLLING: At the state level as well. And let's be honest, Mitt Romney -- used Jonathan Gruber help figure out Massachusetts Romney care.
BECKEL: Well, there he goes.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: It's not even -- it's the fact that they keep saying, oh, he didn't have that much to do with it. Or Pelosi, we didn't know who he is, I have no idea.
GUILFOYLE: It's denied when we have the proof of it.
BOLLING: It's to dent, it's to lie.
BECKEL: Which the proof?
BOLLING: Just man up and say you know the guy.
GUILFOYLE: The proof is that they really do think the American people are stupid, because we have it on tape, we know that he have been in the Oval office, how many times he's been referred to directly in speeches by the President as people that he specifically consulted, one of four names, yet they still want to tell us they don't have an association, now we're offended, that's the bottom line.
BECKEL: Can I ask you a question? Can I ask you question?
GUILFOYLE: What? BECKEL: When during all these issues that are coming out now, about this hidden tax on the middle class. If I remember right, Republicans raise that over -- and I know Greg, about he said he didn't cover, but, over and over and over again, Republicans said this was gonna happen, this was gonna happen. It wasn't as if the American people were surprised by this, if you think you believe the Republicans at all.
GUTFELD: No one read that bill they put it through precisely to hide.
BECKEL: No, I'm talking about the Republicans going out and.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
BECKEL: Campaigning against this, they saying it's a middle class tax.
GUTFELD: Yeah, but on the other side of that you have people like funny or die, you had celebrities or coming out saying that if you didn't do this, you hated poor people, you're all.
GUILFOYLE: And the elderly.
GUTFELD: And they mocked, did they mock the critics who came up with this things. Look, Obama is counting on all of this blowing over and he's right, because for him, everything always does blow over. So you got to ask yourself, what's the payout for the Republican Party?
GUILFOYLE: Right.
GUTFELD: What's the payout for America? What is the point of hitting Gruber over and over again if there isn't some kind of final justice, and the justice has to have two pieces, you have to name and shame every single person who is complicit in this lie. That means, going after the people in the media, getting them to lose their jobs. The other thing is too actually, is to do something about the law, before I would have thought it was silly to even consider the idea you could do something.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
GUTFELD: But this thing was -- law, but I think now, that you can prove that you were lie too, that this is actually.
BECKEL: No.
GUTFELD: Corrupt.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: No, it's corrupt.
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: That is about.
GUTFELD: Do you ever -- use to have it here right now and do it all over again.
BECKEL: Can I just re-vote on a bill, and to sudden it was talk about for 40 years, it never happens.
GUILFOYLE: Bob, Bob, because this.
GUTFELD: Let me ask you. Is it possible to do though, now?
BECEKL: Is it possible? You can take the exact same bill.
GUILFOYLE: Absolutely, look at the numbers now.
(CROSSTALK)
BECEKL: No amendments. That you could get away with this.
GUTFELD: Yeah.
BECKEL: No amendments, some you think having exact same bill that would never happen.
GUTFELD: I mean, I hate spectacle and I hate stunts. However, this calls for justice, doesn't it?
GUILFOYLE: Alright, well let's talk about that because.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: Ron Fournier is talking about this mere issue. Because this is emblematic of a really a broken administration and a government, and who do think is responsible Ron will tell you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RON FOURNIER, NATIONAL JOURNAL: The problem is the central -- actually you have to have as any leader in any walk of life, certainly government is trust and this president has destroyed the credibility of his administration himself, and government itself.
(END VIDEO CLIP) GUILFOYLE: Eric?
BOLLING: So, here's the thing. Jonathan Gruber, President Obama said, I literally took good ideas from people like so-and-so, so-and-so Jonathan Gruber. He was -- MIT professor Bob, so when they were putting ObamaCare together, newest times he was cited, he was talked about, he was a genius, he was brilliant now, he tells the truth but about how they actually got the law that they put together passed by saying, we have to pull the wool over the American people's eyes, isn't it.
BECKEL: And congress and all you Republican.
BOLLING: Now, he's a moron. Now, all everyone have to say, "Oh that idiot Jonathan Gruber."
BECKEL: Pull over your eyes to, to that ticket.
GUILFOYLE: But now.
BOLLING: I didn't vote for it. No, I didn't vote for it. You pull the wool all over the Democrats who voted for. I --
BECKEL: That's census (ph)
BOLLING: its eyes, because they had to do it to get it passed. My point is this, if he was genius then, why is it he's such a moron now into your side?
BECKEL: I want to know why you guys.
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: Because he got it by you. He got nobody else right?
GUILFOYLE: But Bob, Bob, Bob.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: You are a Republican coach.
BECKEL: Can I get one, one point of what I was trying to say? I agree with him, that the trust factor for the president.
GUILFOYLE: Big time.
BECKEL: Is a real problem now, I mean you can't take this hit over and over and over again and not expect that to begin to be a problem, and it is gonna be a problem. Now, whether I don't believe all these things are true, that have that have caused the road to mistrust, but I believe this road to mistrust. And for President, as very tough particularly, when you have nobody in congress.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
BECKEL: The congress controlled by the party and you got two years left.
PERINO: From the media perspective, it is not the first time that the media has collectively, maybe unspoken. It's like this weird code, protected President Obama and the person that asked him about that, to have the strongest feelings about it is not a Republican, but Hillary Clinton. Because, they tried during that primary to get anybody to try to cover President Obama's ideology and his record, and -- her campaign sample say that they -- the media absolutely turned the blind eye to it and so, it's not the first time. I saw today a reporter from NBC suggests that, the only reason this is a story is because people who didn't like the ACA -- American, Affordable Care Act before, are now even more mad. So therefore, that's not, that's why it isn't a story to him, that's why they're not going to cover it. And, when they look at the media's trust numbers that are going down as well, they're almost exactly in proportion to the coverage of the president and the trust factor with the president.
GUILFOYLE: You see the parallels quite.
GUTFELD: And you know-- the other reason why people are mad, it's not just because they were lied to. And that they knew that they are being lied to, but then they were lied after that. The gloating.
PERINO: Yeah.
GUTFELD: It's the gloating -- that you have people in the administration or you have people like Gruber that are gloating about the fact that they screwed us. They like a flat, a flat boy bragging that, you know, he hooked up with your sister. It's like -- it's disgusting.
BECKEL: Well, now, the inviting word is like a super (ph) team that wins and that the losing team, they get beat by a touchdown because they have a very good player on the other side. And they look out and say, she wasn't know about that play. Man, were stupid.
(CROSSTALK) GUTFELD: He found the dad (ph) was cheating.
BECKEL: They were cheating.
BOLLING: How many Republicans voted for the American people?
GUILFOYLE: He's not there, but he can see us that way.
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: Three on that, on the center (ph) side.
BOLLING: No one voted for it. So therefore.
BECKEL: On the center (ph) side you got three, right?
BOLLING: Did.
PERINO: No, there were no.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: The Affordable Care Act, there were no Republican votes.
PERINO: No.
BECKEL: Scott Brown did.
PEIRNO: No, he did not report.
BECKEL: Are you sure?
BOLING: There was no -- this passed without.
BECKEL: What if I'm not in the house, certainly not.
BOLING: Work with me for a second. So no votes, right?
BECKEL: Yeah.
BOLLING: So who's fooled by this? Who is Jonathan Gruber talking about? He's talking about Republicans? Or he is taking about the Democrats that they needed to get the vote for the sake, are you stupid?
BECKEL: Well, if you, if you.
BOLLING: Who is it -- stupid American people.
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: Jonathan Grubber has said.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: Just answer me, just say it.
BECKEL: Say it nothing.
BOLLING: Just say it.
BECKEL: No, no. no, I don't have.
BOLLING: Because the stupid people that voted for are Democrats.
BECKEL: I'll tell you, stupid, stupid people who did not do a good job -- if you believe what you believe, if you didn't sell it, and you got, you got outplayed and now you're whining about it. Stop whining about it.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: He just said win at all cost.
GUTFELD: What's in your analogy, you actually beat us on the playing field because you had the reps, and the reps were the media that called every play for you. You want to, if you want to complete the analogy.
GUILFOYLE: But he doesn't care about this beating. His point is, this is needed to get done, will do whatever it takes to win.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: Now you guys are whiners. But that doesn't matter on how.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: When they actually that came at CBO?
BECKEL: But.
PERINO: Yeah, but Bob.
BECKEL: Where they were?
GUILFOYLE: The CBO, the numbers and the mathematics, specifically.
PERINO: Yeah.
GUILFOYLE: In order to get this through because if they saw and told them the truth, he's on tape saying that, it would not have gotten passed.
BECKEL: Then I think in the final analysis was got out, you're assuming that what Gruber said was true. And that's -- and you have nobody else yet.
PERINO: And so now Gruber is a liar?
GUILFOYLE: He's the architect.
BECKEL: Yeah. I think he probably is a liar.
GUILFOYLE: The MIT guy. Alright, fine. I got to go.
BOLLING: The people's minds he changed were the Democrats who were gonna vote against it.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
BOLLING: Those are the ones that --
GUILFOYLE: And Pelosi didn't there because she didn't read it.
BOLLING: They had the House in the Senate.
GUILFOYLE: Alright, OK.
BOLLING: You had house in Senate.
BECKEL: Yeah.
GUILFOYLE: More to talk about this obviously. But ahead on The Five, yes, a special guest we have for you. The man who killed Osama bin Laden, you all know his name now, Rob O'Neill joins us right here at this table, and we've got a lot to ask him. Including, who he is like to see U.S. forces take out, next. So stick around.
(COMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: This is a Fox News alert, we are expecting a vote to begin very shortly on Keystone Pipeline, the result would come this hour and we're watching that very closely and keeping an eye on that. But now, to immigration, where the president is marching toward a showdown, soon with Republicans as he plans to use his pen to halt the deportation of millions of illegal immigrants, it will be a move that he himself has said many times what exceeds his power.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: With respect to the notion that I can just suspend deportations to executive order, that's just not the case. Because, there are laws on the books that congress has passed, the executive branch's job is to enforce and implement those laws, for me to simply through executive order, ignore those congressional mandates would not conform with my appropriate role as president.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: So why is he now going against in his own warnings? Well, he denies as his position on issue has changed.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) OBAMA: Actually my position hasn't changed. When I was talking to the advocates, their interest was in me -- through executive action, duplicating the legislation that was stalled in congress.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: But The Washington Post fact checker has taken this one on and given the president something I hadn't seen before, it's an upside down Pinocchio representing a true flip-flop. Legal Scholar Jonathan Turley warns our liberty could be at stake.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) JONATHAN TURLEY, CONSTITUTIONAL ATTORNEY: What the president is suggesting is tearing at the very fabric of the constitution. We have a separation of powers that gives us balance, and that doesn't protect the branches. It's not there to protect the executive branch or legislative branch, it's to protect liberty, it's to keep any branch from assuming so much control that they become a threat to liberty. The American people have got to force this issue and say look, we may agree with you on what you're trying to do, but we don't agree how you're trying to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP) PERINO: Greg, I just saw your gesture, did you agree with Jonathan Turley?
GUTFELD: No, I had an itch.
PERINO: OK.
GUTFELD: No, I think there's a common misunderstanding here, President Obama is confused the two meanings of the word borders, we mean boundaries, and he means tenants. He just got confused -- Obama is making it hard to be on his side, because he lies and he cheats. So that what Turley is saying is you know, you can be sympathetic to the idea, pro-immigration, but, you're also pro-law. He's like a trivial pursuit partner that cheats, that peeks at the answers, so you win, but you feel dirty that you win. I mean, even coloring books have boundaries, and it's not that hard to figure out that you can be pro-immigration and pro-law. It's not about constitutionality, it's about being right or wrong and the way he's going about it is wrong.
PERINO: On the question of constitutionality, Kimberly, I want to ask you. Because, the president has made these comments before, he is a constitutional lawyer so, he has said this before, but now he's going back on his word with a flip-flop. Who in the government is going to say that what he is doing is legal. I mean, what they would shop around and try to find a place that the justice department or the legal council that would say.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, he will find somebody in justice council and say that he has the ability, the right to do this under executive order, I don't believe that he does, for the reasons that we've just heard, and there is a separation of powers. He doesn't care, because he's using this actually just to further his own political ideology, to create a wedge issue with the Republicans, to try and again for their demonize them. So, this is just a complete affront to the constitution. I don't care if he's a constitutional lawyer, he doesn't seem to have a love affair with the constitution because he seems to constantly violate the laws with reckless abandon. And he has people around him that supply him with sort of the legalese to be able to do so. But, still it's incorrect, like where's the check on that. He just finds somebody to give him the answers so he can do what he wants.
PERINO: Bob, reaching out to your -- in your memory, to your congressional affairs days, when you helped Jimmy Carter passed significant legislation, what do you think it's like being a White House legislative affairs person now, for President Obama up on the hill today. I mean a heavy lift on this one?
EBCKEL: It is a bit, but let me just say one thing, do you left Jimmy Carter? It -- you should give the guy a break.
BOLLING: Well, these are your congressional affairs days.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
BECKEL: Let me say one thing about this, Jonathan over Jonathan Turley was, I know Jonathan is a nice guy, but, I didn't hear him say any of this. There's president for this, George H.W. Bush and Ronald Reagan did exactly the same thing.
(CROSSTALK)
BECEKL: Where were you guys then?
PERINO: There is.
GUTFELD: Not exactly the same thing, you know that.
BECKEL: Wait a second.
PERINO: Bob, stop.
BECKEL: What Obama is going to do is to allow the dream -- dreamers though, their parents to stay in the country, right?
GUTFELD: Right, right.
BECKEL: That's more than Ronald Reagan and Bush, but it was the same thing.
GUTFELD: But there was the basis for Reagan and Bush acting, there was no basis yet.
PERINO: Meaning that there was law that was passed that hadn't been fulfilled yet, so there is no law, it does putting the cart before the horse, but that is a legal question. Let me give Eric last word here, if you are the Republicans, what do you do to try to stop the administration from doing it?
BOLLING: You know that there's a great interchange.
GUILFOYLE: They cannot.
BOLLING: Earlier today with Jonathan Karl of ABC, and Josh Earnest who -- when Jonathan Karl pointed out something President Obama said a year ago, he said look, I'm not the emperor, I'm not an emperor, I can't go around the law with executive, or the executive order this way. And over the course of about a year and two months or so, he's changed, he's (inaudible) and Jonathan Karl host Josh Earnest will why is the president, why did he say that then and why is he singing a different tune now saying he's going to use the executive pen, and Josh Earnest had nowhere to go. Honestly, he is a great speaker -- spokesperson for the White House. However, he had nowhere to go, he simply said, well, things have changed, we've tried, we've looked at the law now, President Obama sees it differently. He is basically saying, I have no idea what to say here.
PERINO: Different there though.
BOLLING: No he had.
PERINO: I'm glad that he didn't try to make something up.
BOLLING: No, he didn't make something up. However, it's right. President Obama using his own words, I'm not an emperor.
PERINO: Right.
BOLLING: Therefore I won't use the pen a year ago. And now, I'm gonna use the pen.
GUILFOYLE: But how the Democrats even get a pen.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: The reason is, America has a lot to lose, but right now Obama has nothing.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
PERINO: He has spent all his capital.
GUTFELD: No, he has nothing to lose.
GUILFOYLE: Nothing to lose.
PERINO: Right, I mean is he has no capital or anything -- account.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: Please people.
GUTFELD: There's nothing to lose.
PERINO: That's we're saying the same thing.
GUTFELD: No, we're not.
PERINO: I'm saying it better.
GUTFELD: No. That's it. It's over.
PERINO: I said it better, America. Alright, don't go away, because up next, we're going have Navy SEAL Rob O'Neill, here on set on with us, you know who he is, the hero who killed bin Laden. We're gonna ask him some questions you have not heard, the answers to yes, so stay tuned.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLLING: We don't often to have a guest here on The Five, but tonight, it's an honor to shake the hand and to welcome the man who killed Osama bin Laden, retired Navy SEAL Rob O'Neill. Rob, we all heard the horrific can (ph) of that night, so we wanted to ask you, if you feel the questions that maybe you haven't heard it -- by the way.
BOLLING: Thank you
ROB O'NEILL, RETIRED NAVY SEAL WHO KILLED OSAMA BIN LADEN: Thank you for having me.
GUILFOYLE: Yeah.
BOLLING: So my question is, we see ISIS and the beheadings. We're seeing what they're doing on camera. We never seen the picture of Osama bin Laden dead, should we?
O'NEILL: No, I don't think we should, because it -- it would just bring unnecessary anger, even though they're already pretty angry at us, it's kind of poking the bear. I'm able to say that he was shot and killed, I assure you he is. And sometimes, some of the American public just-- they needed to know the justice was served, they just don't need to see what it looks like sometimes.
BOLLING: Even though, even though, we're seeing the ISIS beheading our people, I can't let to see that chad (ph)
O'NEILL: There are parts of me that thought we should have done different things with him and does done different thing with the picture, but I think the right thing to do is what we're doing right now.
BECKEL: Do you think they actually bury this guy safe.
O'NEILL: Oh, they did.
BECKEL: Were you there?
O'NEILL: No, I was not.
BECKEL: OK.
GUTFELD: It's an area 51, Bob.
BECKEL: It is.
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: With the chemtrails.
BECKEL: That's right. No, seriously, I didn't -- there are a lot of questions about that. There really is, I mean, there was no, I mean there was.
GUTFELD: There is no question, Bob.
BECKEL: Yes, there is.
(LAUGHTER)
GUTFELD: People have a lot of questions, now he's dead.
BECKEL: First of all, we're not going to give you -- that's right, that's important. Congratulations, K.G.?
GUILFOYLE: Bob has some conspiracy theories. I actually wanted to talk to you about the intelligence gathering. In the special you pointed out that there was a large amount -- large cache of information that you wanted to be able to retrieve or remove from the scene. Was there anything that you considered to be the most significant, and in fact, was there a personal journal of Usama bin Laden that was recovered?
O'NEILL: I didn't see the journal. I don't know if they found that. That would have been good stuff. I know that some of the stuff we found there directly related to targeting of other al Qaeda operatives, which any time we can do that, it's good. I know it was a treasure trove that we found there. I wish we could have had more time there. It would have been nice to get everything out of there, because I think we would have done a lot more damage to al Qaeda than we already did, even though we did quite a bit of damage that night.
GUILFOYLE: So there was actionable intelligence?
O'NEILL: Oh, definitely. We got as much as we could out of there, but if we have had 24 more hours with our Pakistani allies, the Pakistanis, it could have been better.
GUTFELD: I have two questions. For the purpose of future generosity, what is your favorite drink, because I assume that whenever you go, you're never going to pay for another one. And No. 2, do you sometimes stand in the mirror when no one's around and whisper, "I shot UBL"? You did.
O'NEILL: No. I -- my favorite drink is Lagavulin. And sometimes I'll stand in the mirror and say, "I know Bob Beckel."
BECKEL: "And I'd like to shoot him, too."
GUILFOYLE: Don't worry, Bob, not in the face. Not in the face.
BOLLING: Dana.
PERINO: Well, I had a question. We're both from small-town America.
O'NEILL: Yes.
PERINO: And a lot of media coverage about all sorts of -- mainstream media coverage usually takes place in New York, Washington, D.C., and Los Angeles. And the rest of America kind of gets ignored. Curious what sort of reception or feedback you're have received from Butte, Montana, where you grew up.
O'NEILL: Well, they were -- Butte, Montana, is a great town. They actually -- I think you were playing a song from one of my friends from Butte, Montana. "Rust and Red" by Tim Montana. Great song, great guy.
PERINO: Great plug.
O'NEILL: Thank you so much. I thought I could sneak that one past you.
PERINO: Very smooth.
O'NEILL: No. They were concerned at first, because they're not used to being a part of it, and their first concern was how about the safety. And I had an article written for the hometown paper, and I just let them know that, I mean, there's always a concern. There are more spectacular targets in the country than Butte, Montana. But it's time to be vigilant and realize, you know, that there is a threat somewhere. It's not necessarily as big as they think, but that is where they live and they're concerned.
BOLLING: UBL, was it your first?
O'NEILL: No, and he wasn't my last.
BOLLING: So -- I'm glad you said that. If there were another target, who would be the next UBL that we would need Robert O'Neill to take...?
O'NEILL: Well, it wouldn't be me now.
BOLLING: SEAL Team 6.
O'NEILL: It would be the great warriors that are out there now.
BOLLING: Baghdadi?
O'NEILL: Probably Baghdadi from ISIS. When we put boots on the ground, I'm sure send some of those guys after him, as well.
BOLLING: Anyone else?
O'NEILL: Ayman al-Zawahiri is the head of al Qaeda, but al Qaeda pretty much has turned into ISIS. I mean, it doesn't matter what they call it, you know. It's -- but yes, Baghdadi would be a good one, I personally would like to get the guy that's cutting guys all the heads off.
GUILFOYLE: Jihadi John?
O'NEILL: Yes. I guarantee he's not as tough when someone's hands are tied behind their back.
GUILFOYLE: I agree.
BECKEL: Just what you said about al Qaeda, it isn't -- my theory about this is these groups have established, like, a franchise, like a McDonald's franchise, getting that name. But the original al Qaeda no longer exists, is worth a damn, is it?
O'NEILL: I don't think so. I think they just put their name on it, wherever they are, because they're spread all over the place. Northern Africa, inside Yemen.
PERINO: Oh, no. You just agreed with Bob, and now we're going to have to...
BECKEL: See, I told you.
PERINO: We will never live it down.
BECKEL: No, no. Nobody will believe me. But see, there you go, right from the source.
GUILFOYLE: Yes. Well, I actually want to talk about your parents. You know, I had the opportunity to meet your father a few years ago, really great guy.
O'NEILL: He's been bragging about that forever. That dads get hugs.
PERINO: That's what I called him.
O'NEILL: I can't watch "The Five" without him reminding me.
BECKEL: Who's your father?
GUILFOYLE: He was here, Bob.
O'NEILL: We came in with some other SEALs. And you asked, like, five SEALS, "Are any of you guys liberals?"
BOLLING: That sounded like (ph).
BECKEL: Well, that isn't what I thought about the SEAL when I first heard about it.
GUILFOYLE: But your father, what an incredible guy. Honestly, besides yourself, the star in the special, just the human emotion, the way he spoke about you, the scene where he was in the Wal-Mart parking lot talking to you on the phone. How it has been now for your parents, because with this being public, how do they feel about the level of safety for you?
O'NEILL: Well, they're concerned. They're concerned more about me than they are of themselves. We have taken precautions for everybody, and I'm worried about them, too. Yes, they're concerned, but they're proud, obviously, and my father's proud. And I was impressed with him because I think in the special he said catatonic and apoplectic in the same sentence.
GUILFOYLE: Perfectly, I might add.
O'NEILL: Yes, I know.
OK, technically, you don't have to do anything for the rest of your life, because you've done something so great and wonderful for this country, do you know what you want to do? Do you have plans about where to go -- when you've done something this great, what do you do next?
O'NEILL: After I killed Usama bin Laden, I got out of the navy at 16 and a half years, I was honorably discharged, and that was difficult because there's nothing there for you, no pension. So I spent the last two years, so colleagues of mine -- colleagues of mine started a foundation called YourGratefulNation.org, and we help vets with the transition period with grants and help with posttraumatic stress, traumatic brain injury and the rest (ph). Actually looking them to find other employment, other than carrying a gun. A lot of them don't want to carry guns anymore.
BOLLING: Right. D.
PERINO: My last question is in the documentary, you talked about on the chopper, you were counting 1 to 1,000...
O'NEILL: Yes.
PERINO: But you remembered a quote from George W. Bush, from our president. Just curious, are those quotes that you had memorized? Were they somewhere in your brain? Or did it all of a sudden come to...
O'NEILL: No. I heard it a lot, and I really liked it but I didn't have it written down anywhere. And it just came to me, and I was pretty sur. e I checked it and got it right. I was pretty sure I got it right, but when I got back home, I looked it up and I was spot on. Then I thought this would make a nice tattoo, also. So we did that.
GUILFOYLE: Very nice.
BOLLING: We have to leave it there, Rob. It's great talking to you. Thank you for everything you've done sir.
O'NEILL: It's an honor.
BOLLING: All right. Again, thank you for your service, Rob. Before you go, here's a song from one of Rob's favorite hometown bands, Tim Montana and the Shrednecks, singing "Rust and Red." "The Five" will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUTFELD: Oxford Dictionaries picked "vape" -- smoking an e-cig -- as "Word of the Year" and cited "growing public debate on the public dangers and need for regulation." Translation: We don't know squat about vaping, but that's not going to stop jerks from controlling your life.
Once again, because they're idiots, political hacks seek to ban vaping without any facts. Instead, they claim indoor vaping confuses people who think it's real smoking. So you ban something because it looks like something else. Why not ban surgery? It looks like stabbing.
Baltimore councilman James Kraft wants to ban e-cigs like regular cigs, because there hasn't been any real studies on them. So we must now disprove his unscientific opinion, rather than he defend his unwarranted meddling.
Worse, he introduced legislation because his granddaughter saw people vaping at Camden Yards and it bugged her. So that's how we make laws: to placate kids. That trumps science and human life? If anything kids should hail vaping, because the tarless smoke saves their loved ones. If vaping were around decades ago, many moms and dads would be alive right now.
But for weak minds, it's easier to condemn inanimate objects than real evil. The world is now hijacked by hysterics bent on harm, not help. Whether it's words or tacky shirts or a puff of mist, we're at the mercy of second-hand scolds and their first-hand stupidity. If only there was a patch for that.
GUILFOYLE: Yes, no kidding.
GUTFELD: No kidding is right.
GUILFOYLE: No kidding.
GUTFELD: I get so angry. These people are morons. All right. This is all -- this is not about vaping; it's about the word of the year. What is your word of the year?
GUILFOYLE: It's called venting. Oh, no. This is like -- sounds stupid now.
GUTFELD: What?
GUILFOYLE: One of my favorite words to use, and I say it's because they always make fun, like laugh at me, I'll say, "Babe, babe," to whoever it is. It doesn't matter.
PERINO: Babe.
GUILFOYLE: Man, woman, child, puppy, birds.
BECKEL: You just can't remember anybody's name.
GUILFOYLE: No, that's not true. I remember everybody's name, but I like the way it sounds. Babe, babe.
GUTFELD: That's not a word that became more prevalent this year.
GUILFOYLE: I don't care. I made it more prevalent, because I use it, and now Dana says it, too.
PERINO: She just pulled a Bob on you.
GUTFELD: Yes.
GUILFOYLE: When Costi (ph) says it, everybody loves it.
GUTFELD: No, pulling a Bob is something else. Bob.
GUILFOYLE: See. I'm timeless. Thank you.
BECKEL: Yes.
GUTFELD: What is your word of...
BECKEL: No, I've got to tell you, I'm going to go with my least favorite and that's the resurgence of what's happening? "What's happening?" It used to be "What's HAPPEN-ing," like what are you doing, what's that? Now they don't hear what you say. They're like "WHAT's happening?"
BOLLING: Really?
BECKEL: Oh, yes. You haven't heard this?
GUTFELD: Have you been watching a lot of...
BECKEL: Maybe it's the younger generation.
BECKEL: ... Elance (ph)?
PERINO: Where have you been hanging out?
GUILFOYLE: Bob, that just makes no sense.
GUTFELD: Are you in love with Shirley Hemphill?
GUILFOYLE: So far, mine's better than Bob's. Next.
BECKEL: You had to be there. You had to be there.
PERINO: I bet Eric did the assignment correctly.
BOLLING: I did. Yes, I followed the rules.
The word of the year for me is obviously Gruber. In all forms of it: Gruberizing, getting Grubered, and these soon-to-be few websites -- Media Matters for Gruber, MoveOn.Gruber, "The Daily Gruber Cause," and of course, "The Huffington Gruber."
GUTFELD: Nice.
GUILFOYLE: I had express permission to go with my direction on the segment.
PERINO: FOX Gruber?
BOLLING: FOX Gruber?
GUTFELD: Well, you know what? Let's see if Dana's word of the year doesn't involve a dog.
PERINO: No, it did not.
GUTFELD: Oh, really?
PERINO: It does involve country music.
GUTFELD: Oh, OK.
PERINO: So I didn't pick one that I liked, because I was afraid to be mocked by you.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: But I am going to complain about one that Oxford included this year.
GUTFELD: Yes.
PERINO: Honky-tonker. OK, this is the definition: "A person who owns, works in or frequents a cheap, sleazy bar or nightclub, typically where country music is played." Well, I have to say, I don't think it's cheap and sleazy. It's like fun, good music, and there's a lot of people the (UNINTELLIGIBLE) put up for new songs: Chris Young, Kip Moore, Luke Brian and Blake Shelton. All talk about honky-tonks in recent music.
GUTFELD: I thought honky-tonk was a white tonk.
PERINO: What is a tonk?
GUTFELD: My word of the year -- I don't know what a tonk is.
My word of the year...
GUILFOYLE: Like a Tonka toy.
GUTFELD: ... is hurtful, which is used now every day to condemn anything that is not physically hurtful. So words are hurtful. T-shirts are hurtful. Music is hurtful.
BOLLING: Ideas.
GUTFELD: Names of teams are hurtful. Everybody is hurtful. Bunch of wimps.
PERINO: Not having hot water.
GUTFELD: Not having hot water. Poor Dana doesn't have any hot water.
All right. Coming up, Charles Manson is getting married. Why isn't this Kimberly's "One More Thing"? A terrible story, next on "The Five."
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BECKEL: Y'all remember this mad man, Charles Manson.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GERALDO RIVERA, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: You ever kill anybody?
CHARLES MANSON, CULT LEADER WHO INCITED FOLLOWERS TO COMMIT MASS MURDER: I've come awful close a few times.
RIVERA: Come on, didn't you?
MANSON: What do you mean come on, didn't you, man? I ain't lying to you.
Do you think I would still be here if I was guilty of anything? And look me in the eye. Look me -- look straight away in the eye. Do I look like I'm guilty about anything?
RIVERA: You look more guilty than anyone I ever looked in the eye in my life.
MANSON: Really? Really? You see what I'm saying? The guy that you're trying to make me into is impossible. What you're doing is you're creating a legend, you're creating a beast, you're creating whatever you are judging yourselves with into the word "Manson." And that's not me at all.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECKEL: And Greg, Geraldo is on the right.
I'm sorry. The mass murderer is now 80. He's still in prison, and thankfully for all of us. And you may be surprised to hear he'll be headed down the aisle soon. California just granted him a marriage license to wed his 26-year-old girlfriend. His bride-to-be claiming Manson is an innocent man and says they're in love.
Why on earth would you want to marry him?
Now, Kimberly, you're sort of top of the list of being -- getting married. What do you think? Do you think Charles is somebody that has a right to be -- he says he legally has a right to get married, right?
GUILFOYLE: Right. I mean, I think this is very objectionable. And I feel very sorry for her. I don't know where her friends and family are that should be talking some sense into her. I've seen so many of these cases where prisoners are getting married. People that come visit them. It's not anybody they had a preexisting relationship with. And you know, the lure, the seduction to try to convince somebody, "Oh, I'm innocent. Poor me."
But I mean, come on. She's 26 years old. He's 80. He's a mass murderer. Everybody knows it. Look at what's carved into his head. I mean, it's just -- the whole thing is so disturbing and repugnant.
BECKEL: You know what they say about women who do this? Is that they're - - they want to be mommy figures and they don't want their husbands to run around anywhere. Which I guess makes some sense.
Eric, do you remember Manson? Were you old enough to remember Manson?
BOLLING: No, I don't -- I was old enough to remember. I remember that he killed a 26-year-old, coincidentally, Sharon Tate...
BECKEL: That's right.
BOLLING: ... or his group did.
I have a problem with California granting this marriage.
GUILFOYLE: Me, too.
BOLLING: I don't think they should do that. He was been -- he's been convicted. He was actually sentenced to die for the murders, and for some reason he's still around. Why is he given these rights? I think -- I'm against it.
BECKEL: I'm thinking about every state allows you to get married. Don't they?
BOLLING: I don't know. I don't think they should, even if they do.
GUILFOYLE: It's terrible. A mockery of marriage.
BECKEL: Do you think you should not be allowed to get married if you're in prison?
PERINO: I think we should trade and make sure -- states should allow, if they want to, states should vote to allow gay marriage, and they should deny marriage like this. How about that?
BECKEL: There you go. I like that idea.
Now Greg, you told me something in the break I think is very fascinating about Charles Manson. I didn't know this. Go ahead, tell everybody.
GUTFELD: I can't remember.
BECKEL: Come on. You said he was a rock -- he was going to be a rock star.
GUTFELD: He wanted to be a rock star, and because he was a failed rock star, he turned to murder.
By the way, I think this is beautiful that two people can find love, you know, over so many obstacles. I just hope he doesn't start another family. Because the first one didn't go too well.
However, I will say this: this is the best proof for the necessity of the death penalty. If they had fried this scum in the 1970s, we'd be doing the story on Taylor Swift instead of this jackass.
And by the way, he's still ruining lives. He's ruining that girl's parents' lives.
GUILFOYLE: Right.
GUTFELD: Her entire family is embarrassed and humiliated.
The death penalty, believe it or not, champions human rights. It doesn't violate them. By letting this guy live, that's a violation of all of these victims.
GUILFOYLE: Absolutely right. And shout out to Steve Kay and Vince Bugliosi from my old office that prosecuted him.
BOLLING: But he did receive the death penalty, I'm pretty sure, didn't he?
GUILFOYLE: Then it was overturned when they took the death penalty off the books for a while. And it went back on. So he was part of that big -- felony (UNINTELLIGIBLE), I believe.
BECKEL: So they can't -- he can't be -- no double...
GUILFOYLE: Unfortunately, we're going to have to wait until he dies from natural causes.
BECKEL: You're just upset because she got there first.
All right.
BOLLING: Oh, wow!
BECKEL: "One More Thing" is up next.
GUILFOYLE: What a moron.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, it's time now for "One More Thing." File this under hash tag winning. That's right. FOX News Channel, not only do we beat everybody in cable -- CNN, MSNBC combined -- we beat everybody in network news on the election night for the midterm election. Feast your eyes on those numbers if you shall.
GUTFELD: Wow.
PERINO: Wow.
GUILFOYLE: Six point six million overall, and in the key demo, the money that pays, ad sales, 1.8 million in the age group of 25 to 54. Next up, CBS, NBC, ABC, CNN, and MSNBC feeding the bottom. Feeding the bottom.
PERINO: I put that solely down to Bob Beckel's performance.
GUTFELD: Yes.
BECKEL: Exactly right.
GUILFOYLE: By the way, the point is, this is a -- this whole level of a FOX News dominance news demands analysis, not dismissal. Those are the words of David Zurawik. Check out his article in the "Baltimore Sun," which is really incredible.
And then we had our special with the Navy SEAL. That was also the largest...
GUTFELD: This is just a fluke.
GUILFOYLE: ... number.
PERINO: Is this like a...
GUILFOYLE: Three point seven million viewers, highest rated documentary in FOX News history, as well. Just letting you know.
BOLLING: Game changer. That was a game changer.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
GUTFELD: Just a fluke.
BOLLING: OK. Can I read a couple of quotes from this guy right here? "We should live in a country where the rich pay their fair share. They're willing to ask corporations and the rich pay their fair share." And how about this one: "Tonight's lead, the secrets of Mitt Romney. Governor Romney's release of 2011 returns have only raised more questions and draw more attention to his murky financials."
That's very interesting, because look what the New York Times exposed today about the Reverend Al Sharpton. Take a look at that. Owes more than $4.5 million in state and federal taxes. This is the New York Times expose.
GUILFOYLE: Wow.
BOLLING: Faces personal federal tax liens of more than $3 million.
Listen, do your thing, Reverend Al, I get it, but also, don't be a hypocrite. Pay your taxes.
GUTFELD: He's a crook.
PERINO: You shouldn't be allowed into the White House if you have that much -- if you have that much that you owe. They should change that.
BOLLING: It crazy. And this isn't a right-wing blog that's doing it.
BECKEL: I've got a -- I've got a bone to pick here with Rand Paul, the senator from Kentucky, the little libertarian from there. He has taken on my man, my man...
PERINO: Teddy Cruz!
BECKEL: ... Teddy Cruz. Now, I've made it clear that my nominee for Republican nomination is Teddy Cruz. And Ron [SIC], you should -- you tried to rip off -- I guess you did rip off his digital expert. But come on, man. You don't do that; not in politics. I mean, that's like taking a guy's girlfriend, presidential level.
So here's the deal. You get your campaign workers (ph), have them come talk to me. We'll work out a deal, because I want you on the ticket with my man, Ron Paul. I mean...
PERINO: Rand.
BECKEL: You know.
BOLLING: Ted Cruz.
BECKEL: Teddy.
BOLLING: Where'd you get that picture?
GUILFOYLE: Wow. Wow, what can you say about that confusion?
GUTFELD: All right, my turn? I have great news. I found out they're actually going to be making a sequel to the great film, "Chariots of Fire," about -- you might have seen it years ago -- guys running on the beach and stuff. I actually was able to get ahold of advanced footage of the new climactic race.
GUILFOYLE: What kind of show is this anyway?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(VIDEO OF SMALL DOGS OR PUPPIES RUNNING ON TRACK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: They're just getting the runners up. So there you go. This one decides to cheat and knock that one over, and then as they're getting to the end, watch this. Watch this. Whoa! Kicked his butt. Anyway.
GUILFOYLE: They kicked them over the...
(CROSSTALK)
GUTFELD: Jeremy Piven placed the middle dog.
GUILFOYLE: All right. Dana Perino, I hope you have something fabulous.
PERINO: Well, I do, because you know I love to read, and on Tuesdays in the Wall Street Journal, you should read the...
GUTFELD: You love to read.
PERINO: ... Brett Stephens. I love to read. And I'm going to give you a book recommendation. I haven't read it yet. Actually, Greg has. It's a great book: "America in Retreat: The New Isolationism and the Coming Global Disorder" by Brett Stephens of the Wall Street Journal. And you can read his column every Tuesday, and I suggest you do.
GUILFOYLE: That's what's happening.
GUTFELD: Good for you.
GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, if you could, please, set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." And that's going to be it for us tonight. But never fear, "Special Report" is next.
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