This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 9, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Greg Gutfeld along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling and she was married to a Smurf in the 90s, it's Dana Perino, this is "The Five."
You remember the Colombian prostitution scandal that vanished after all those Secret Service agents were punished? According to The Washington Post, they weren't the only ones hiring hookers. A young White House staffer and son of a big Democratic donor was there, too. Was he punished as well? Well, if you call landing a gig at the Office of Women's Global Issues punishment, then, yes, he did.
So I guess he was just doing undercover work in Colombia, witnessing the injustices up close? Maybe the producers at MSNBC will buy that excuse. Worse, The Post reports that the White House may have had the report on the scandal put off until after the election. But that's not like them at all. Benghazi, the IRS, they would never bury something to save an election knowing the media would oblige. Who were the hookers again? I certainly hope Media Matters get its talking points out soon to dismiss this story and demonize the reporters chasing it.
Yet while we wonder what happened to those missing EPA e-mails or that impending report on Bowe Bergdahl, which likely won't come out until after the elections, where's Waldo? I mean Obama. Fund-raising with Gwyneth. It's the only part of politics he's good at. I blame global warning.
And so as agents and military men were punished, a skeevy White House merrily skipped to re-election with their cronies rewarded, a machinery impervious to consequence thanks to its media enablers. It's a fine web they weave where everyone gets screwed except those who paid in advance.
So K.G., I want to read this statement from Richard Sauber, he's the attorney representing Jonathan -- Dach? Dach? Whatever, Dach, the kid that was over there.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Right, the aide.
GUTFELD: That apparently was linked to prostitution. He says the allegations about any inappropriate contact by Jonathan Dach in Cartagena are utterly and completely false, he's ducking the question. When he arrives, he was met at the airport by U.S. embassy staff, driven to the hotel, checked-in, went to dinner and promptly went to bed exhausted. So we think, there's nothing wrong there K.G., he would say that, but it's kinda strange that he gets a plum job, all these guys get fired or demoted but he gets a great job. In a weird way it shows how the White House is willing to protect the mother ship at the expense of these agents.
GUILFOYLE: And the answer was in the call of the question I comment you with that Greg. You're exactly right.
GUTFELD: I don't wanna do that.
GUILFOYLE: It's a double standard, right? And it shows the hypocrisy of the administration because they fired secret service agents for the same conduct even though they said, "well, listen prostitution is legal in Cartagena in Colombia so this was okay." They were committing an offense there, as always it's the cover-up that is the most agreedous of the crime, that aspect of it. But he why are they saying he's okay to work for them if the secret service agents are not? Why? And that they covered it up as well. That's the problem here.
GUTFELD: That's I think to cover-up, putting it off which happens to be a regular thing for them. So Kermit, if I can ask you this question, this is not -- The Washington Post is not a crack pot website. This is The Washington Post, how can any of the left wing blogs or the liberal media dismiss this?
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: That's why they're a little bit compound -- you know, they're floundering a little bit because they're not exactly sure. Carol Leonnig and David Nakamura have been writing pieces of -- they're experts on the secret service issues.
PERINO: Number one.
GUILFOYLE: Number one.
PERINO: But there are also -- they're seasoned reporters that do a lot of investigative -- investigatory things. So if I were the White House press secretary, if I saw this piece, I'd say, "Is there something I don't know." What do they know that we don't know, that somebody here hasn't told me or what questions am I not asking. Basically, right before -- as soon as the piece posted, the White House was on the record saying it's totally false. But interesting thing for me is this part where it says, that a lead government investigator told the investigators that he was pressured by superiors to withhold evidence because a link to the White House would be potentially embarrassing to the administration. The reason they're having a big problem, I think at the White House defending this, is that they know that these reporters, they're not just going to throw in the (inaudible) their reputations are on the line. I would also note that The Washington Post has not changed the story. They've not taken it down, there's not been any editing of it and I think there would have been if there was problem. Why are you laughing at me?
GUILFOYLE: She's right.
GUTFELD: No, this is the Kermit, thought it is the beautiful sweater.
PERINO: No, I didn't hear anything I just said? It was brilliant.
GUTFELD: It is brilliant. Eric is gonna add to that brilliance.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: In view -- I pull the same line. I mean, it's a 15-page online, 15-page -- piece and I pulled the same line. Here is what they quote, lead as saying we investigator. With --he was told to, "withhold and alter," forget withhold, I mean withhold is bad enough.
PERINO: Yeah, alter.
BOLLING: Told to alter certain information in his report because it is potentially damaging to the administration. Wow, I mean, that isn't -- the people will say, "You know, maybe the IRS isn't a scandal or Benghazi is not a scandal." If someone from the White House tells an I.G. to withhold and alter information until after an election, I would call that definitely a scandal.
Can I talk briefly about this young guy this, Jonathan Dach, I believe, I could be wrong with that, 25-year-old advance, goes to Colombia and then ends up at least loosely tied by these investigators with this prostitute and then comes back and he is point out gets a job in the Office of Women's Global Issues at the White House and his father, the rich donor, works in the administration as well.
GUTFELD: Yeah, and it has given at least $20,000 to President Obama and thousands to other -- to the Democratic Party. So Bob.
GUILFOYLE: They're good to their friend.
GUTFELD: Yeah, they're good to the friend.
GUILFOYLE: They are good with that.
GUTFELD: So Bob, I can't -- I none of us can expect the president to know or be responsible any for illicit activity this going on in Colombia, but the cover-up to save the election, we've talked about this and you admit this isn't a practice. That's pretty unconscionable.
BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Well, it -- first of all, I want to go through this, one the -- it was not the White House who fire the secret service agents, secret service itself made that decisions. Secondly, back then I defended the secret service guys who were bachelors because it's legal, they are off duty. Now I will be more than happy even further happy to defend this kid, he was a volunteer and it's legal.
PERINO: But he said it didn't happen.
BECKEL: Pardon me.
PERINO: He said it didn't happen.
BECKEL: I'm not defending his line. I'm just saying the thing, what happen.
GUILFOYLE: He is lying.
PERINO: So you're saying that he's lying.
BECKEL: Can I have a second, please? If I had that information and I were involved in politics and it was 30 -- 60 days before the campaign, I would bury it, too.
BOLLING: Wait, wait. You would tell someone to bury the information with after.
BECKEL: He was a volunteer, I could care less.
BOLLING: No, no, no. Who cares what the kid did. It's the fact that they -- this Nieland, David Nieland is the lead investigator, the I.G. was told by the White House to bury the information. You don't think that's a conspiracy?
BECKEL: This was a nonemployee of the federal government who was doing exactly.
PERINO: Who got rewarded with a job in the federal government?
GUILFOYLE: Bob is telling.
BECKEL: That's a mistake. That's a bad mistake. I would have a word -- I would send him on his way. But -- that's not the point I mean, to make a big deal out of this, this is a lot of a big deal but.
BOLLING: He was told by the White House to bury the information. Forget about what he did. Who cares with a 25-year-old kid does in Colombia. It's the fact the White House leans on an I.G. to bury and alter certain information because of an election.
GUILFOYLE: He doesn't care.
BECKEL: If you ever been in a campaigns when things are close like that and something comes up that is not illegal, you'll bury it.
GUTFELD: But Bob, that -- this is the son of a donor.
GUTFELD: His gots but-- he didn't -- everybody got thrown under the bus but him. That's pretty disgusting.
BECKEL: Why should he thrown up out there under the bus?
GUILFOYLE: Special treatment.
GUTFELD: Well, he might have been involved.
GUTFELD: And we have on top of that the fact that they delayed the report until after the election which seems to be a practice which is what happened --
GUILFOYLE: And they were told to alter it. I mean, come on.
BOLLING: Can I add one more layer of the why?
GUILFOYLE: Assuming candles. (ph) No one is shocked anymore by anything.
BOLLING: Because the whole issue about this was these people, the advance team knew exactly where President Obama was gonna be at every single point of the way. They had car services booked from to go here to here to here and if you're sleeping with a prostitute, who knows where she comes from and if you're leaving her that information if you're drunk sleeping with her then maybe the world knows where President Obama is gonna be at what time.
GUTFELD: That's why it matters.
BECKEL: OK. Alright, I think we obviously have different -- but this is a 25-year-old kid is.
PERINO: First of all, he's not a kid. He's 25-years old OK? That is a man. He's making decisions on his own. He got his dad happened to be a rich guy who used to give money to the Democrats, fine. Goes on to serve in the administration at HHS or yeah, HHS, then his son gets a plum assignment, while everybody else has to take the fall. What kind of a man is that? Besides I actually care about the women.
GUTFELD: The women at work at the -- yes.
PERINO: Well, and also the women in Colombia.
PERINO: This is someone's daughter, mother, sister, these are women that have either chosen because of bad circumstances or pushed into or forced into a situation that is terrible and I don't think that -- I don't like it that even if he is a volunteer, he still got paid government money to pay for his expenses. I don't want my government dollars to go exploiting women and then, I mean you just got to hope they're being humorous about it, that giving them a job at the Office of Global Women's Issue at the State Department.
GUILFOYLE: The irony is not lost on us.
PERINO: I wonder how the spokespeople at the State Department feel about it.
GUILFOYLE: And who has a war against women? I ask you?
BECKEL: That was -- that really was a fall that you could possibly --
GUILFOYLE: On top of everything else, they're just stupid.
BECKEL: I can't imagine --
GUILFOYLE: But there's moral of equivalency here. You know -- the bad thing.
GUTFELD: Let me go to -- let me -- I'm gonna go to you Kimberly after this. This is a substantial (ph) tape of Congressman Chaffetz and Ronald Kessler slamming the White House double standard in this scandal.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JASON CHAFFETZ, UTAH CONGRESSMAN: There were nearly two dozen secret service and military personnel that were either fired or reprimanded but the concern is that when it came to the White House and the White House taking care of its own personnel, totally different standard and perhaps a misdirection and some cover-up.
RONALD KESSLER, AUTHOR: It's really the White House that's the key here, and they perpetuated a double standard where secret service agents were fired for hiring prostitutes as they should have been yet their own aide was involved and they covered it up.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GUTFELD: So there is a lot of double standards here. One of these -- I keep thinking if this was under President Bush they would blame it on his frat boy past.
GUILFOYLE: And it would be front page. Do you understand that? The unfair dealing, lack of moral standards.
BECKEL: This is not President Bush.
PERINO: Why were we -- we're not in a corner.
GUTFELD: I'm in the corner, President Obama is.
GUILFOYLE: The whole thing is -- this is how offensive it is. They keep outdoing themselves like, "Oh, you think that scandal was bad, we got another one." They just jumped it every time.
GUTFELD: That's true, there will be another one.
PERINO: It would have been a culture -- they would have said it was a culture of allowing this type of bad behavior to happen, turned a blind eye to it. That was -- what the accusation .
BECKEL: They made it a terrible blunder giving this guy a job afterwards, no question about that. I think, you've now elevated this to a scandalize this. It's as sad into our -- skill.
PERINO: It's not the point Bob.
GUTFELD: I've don't really think that the job is the problem.
PERINO: He told the investigators to lie.
BECKEL: No, Is ay this -- I understand that. I'm just saying that -- I can sort of understand that.
GUILFOYLE: You're talking about the act itself that you don't have a moral problem with. We're talking about the fact that they covered it up.
BECKEL: One question at a time. Can I answer your question?
GUTFELD: But you keep interrupting them.
GUTFELD: The point is we get it. You don't think that act is a big deal. We're talking about the lie.
BECKEL: Cover up.
GUTFELD: The cover up, OK.
PERINO: And the media is complicit.
BECKEL: Which portion should I respond?
GUTFELD: Anywhere you want.
BECKEL: OK, Greg.
GUTFELD: Yes, keep it on Bob.
GUILFOYLE: You're running out of time.
PERINO: To the cover up. I want to hear that.
BECKEL: If I were in a campaign, I would run it and somebody came to me and said, "Bob, one of our volunteers who were helping the president's advance got hooked up with a prostitute in Colombia." I'd say, "Is it illegal?" "No." I said, "Those wait for that until the campaign is over."
BOLLING: OK. Then, take it one step further with the -- which is a Dana points out with the White House did today and said, "This is absolutely false, The Washington Post reporter that."
BOLLING: But here -- they are right. Correct. Because now they've gone on record saying this is false, it's not true, and when.
GUILFOYLE: And now we know it is.
BOLLING: When there's some link to this guy and that prostitute to that room, you're going to have the White House again, again lying to the American people.
GUTFELD: One last thing quick, Dana, the Bowe Bergdahl report, when is that coming out? Is that gonna come out after the election?
PERINO: I don't know when it is coming out.
PERINO: I would say this, if the White House is sitting on that report and they are thinking that it is a smart thing to do to wait until after the election to reveal whatever information is in that report because they think it would possibly hurt them in the midterms, but I don't think it would I've been -- but the midterms are gonna be what they gonna be. They're holding that report back to be try to protect the president, I think that's unconscionable and I hope that the press is asking them where is that report?
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, unethical.
BECKEL: Is this about the guy that went AWOL and --
BECKEL: That would be his mistake.
GUTFELD: Alright. Don't go away. Your Ebola update is up next on "The Five."
GUILFOYLE: We turn now to the Ebola scare, 200 airplane cabin cleaners walked off the job today at New York's LaGuardia airport. They say they fear for their safety because they're not protected enough from possible exposure to Ebola.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HECTOR FIGUEROA, PRESIDENT OF 32BJ SEIU: We're here today, (inaudible) because we can no longer tolerate unsafe working conditions. The whole country is shivering, worried about the problems of Ebola. Airport workers are on the front line of protecting the public. To protect the public, we have to protect the workers.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: Well, meanwhile, five airports to the U.S. are going to be testing travelers from West Africa for fevers when they arrive here in the United States, something we talked about before that we thought they should have started doing right away in addition to grounding some of the flights. Eric, do they have the right call here, the right opinion to say, "Listen we're not protected enough, we don't have the right gear."
BOLLING: The airport workers?
BOLLING: Yeah, I feel bad for them, I really do. Look, we don't know enough, and they said we need to be better trained, we need more equipment, we need more things to make sure that they're safe, that's all they're asking for. I am no fan of unions and workers walking off the job, but in this case, man, I got to tell you, when it's life or death, I got to say, I'm kind of understand that. Why five airports? Why not 500 airports? Why not all airports, why not all incoming flights from one of those three countries.
GUTFELD: I can address that. It's a symbolic gesture.
GUTFELD: Which the White House loves to do, and the problem -- this is an important thing. When you do something for show, it always replaces doing something that actually solves the problem.
GUTFELD: And we live in an age where solutions are being replaced by symbolism, and symbolic gestures when they replace solutions, are deadlier than doing nothing, that what scares me.
BECKEL: I think it's fair to say it would be difficult to cover 500 airports. I don't know how many people work there but I think it should be more than that and by the way, I want this data record.
GUILFOYLE: I know what you're going to say. BECKEL: And it's my goal that you finally said something supportive over union, I'm glad to it.
BOLLING: No, no, no. the point is if your life is on the line...
GUILFOYLE: Just say OK.
GUILFOYLE: Dana, OK.
PERINO: OK, I'm gonna disagree.
PERINO: Because I have been persuaded by Dr. Frieden, who runs the CDC, who explained today in an op-ed that I thought was very well argued why he thinks it is a bad thing to shut down all the airports.
GUILFOYLE: So articulated.
PERINO: And all the flights from there. I thought, well, it's quite lengthy...
PERINO: But one of the things he was saying is the difficulty of actually doing that, of needing to fight the problem as the source of actually it being kind of infective, because people could be in those countries, go another country then come here. That -- you're not solving the problem. He argues that you could make it worst if you shut down those airports. So I - - I'm just gonna say -- I trust them. They have to grapple with much larger and bigger issues than I have to, they actually have the responsibility -- front line responsibility for it, so.
GUTFELD: Yeah, I would like to think that they know what they're doing. I agree with you on that.
PERINO: Yes. We will find out eight months from now.
GUILFOYLE: Well, we would think so except for the fact they sent people into the apartment without proper HAZMAT material. I mean, this is - I don't understand, I think they're kind of playing catch-up on this debate, obviously a very bright man, I know he went to my place. I like the fact he went to the scene, he went to the heart of the scene, he went there to Liberia, to see it for himself, fantastic. But what harm does it take -- honestly, I disagree with his argument and I've heard him, I read it about shutting down the airports. I think you should do that. Don't let the flight come in until we do what he said which is, contain it at the source. Shut it down there.
PERINO: Apparently they also are having a really -- they're being criticized by some health care workers and doctors including -- our airport workers, despite having a lack of information.
PERINO: So we have a lot of different ways to communicate with people now through phones also through different ways and it feels like the health care workers, including of a very a senior doctor I talked to this week, that doesn't anything to do with Ebola but, she is concerned because she's heard nothing and she would like to know -- she would like to know more.
BECKEL: I thought it was the sheriff's department that sent that guy in Ebola wasn't it?
GUILFOYLE: Yeah, but this is my point. Why -- it's your problem -- because they weren't even supposed to have to go in there. It's not their job they said it should have been federal employees to go in. They went out in without the proper material. The point is, this isn't a tight operation, they want us to be instead, because there's a worldwide shortage of the medicine to treat Ebola. You've Dr. Kent Brantly, driving the survivor with the serum, the anti-bodies in his body. So he stopped twice now to give blood to donate because they don't even have the proper medicine there's a worldwide shortage to save people. I mean it's.
BECKEL: Does the fault really lie, to air with the police department knowing that it's put them in and wait?
PERINO: Well, I know, I actually think it gets back to the bigger point that the CDC has -- I think you could argue they have been late and that they have been lax in their communication of how to actually prepare and be ready for it. Even if you are at a local police department, like a bulletin board, like FYI everybody be aware of this, little e-mail that goes out somewhat.
GUILFOYLE: It happened. Dr. Frieden, when this first happen said, "It's not necessary to wear HAZMAT materials to go into the scene."
GUILFOYLE: HE said that. And then, five days later when they couldn't find anyone to go in and clean the apartment, then the people go in with the HAZMAT.
BOLLING: If this is.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, and then there's the sheriff that is in the hospital that they're still testing for Ebola markers even though, he was just in there you know, walked in and he said, he didn't touch any bodily fluids. So did they really know how it spread, some say.
BOLLING: That's the problem, and they're analyzing -- and Greg may be 100 percent right and we are overreacting, but as things start to come out, we realize we weren't 100 percent accurate on certain things. It wouldn't be a bad idea. Can I throw a controversial -- a provocative thought on the table? Shouldn't we.
GUILFOYLE: Can you tell me what it is first?
BOLLING: Shouldn't we be profiling people who we suspect of having or potentially having Ebola?
BECKEL: That's what you're doing.
PERINO: I think you profile them by saying have you been traveling to those area or living there. That's -- I mean that kind of profiling?
BOLLING: Yes, you show symptoms, you come from that -- part of the world.
PERINO: I think that's what they are doing.
BOLLING: I don't know, it sounds like they're taking five airports and hope they can catch some.
GUTFELD: Yeah. I think -- I have to say that we -- it's -- what if questions are great on talk shows but hysteria, it can be as contagious as the disease and at times by act -- getting people to act irrationally is actually deadlier, because people do not take careful precautions when they panic. And I know that -- you know, for television it's good to be concerned but you got to control.
GUILFOYLE: I think this is controlled and measured and perhaps.
GUTFELD: I don't know about you, Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: Coming up.
GUTFELD: I think you're out of control.
GUILFOYLE: Completely, just inside. We're gonna guess you up to speed on what's happening now in races across the country ahead of the fast- approaching midterm elections. Dana, got the low down next. Stay with us.
PERINO: That song was written for Greg Gutfeld. OK, the midterm election there is 26 days away, where the things stand. A Fox News poll shows Republicans trending ahead in five battleground Senate races, Alaska, Arkansas, Colorado, Kansas and Kentucky. There's been a lazy and surprised though, in South Dakota, they could spell trouble for the GOP, the independent candidate in the three-way contest is just behind the Republican Front-Runner. In North Carolina the race remains tight between incumbent Democrat Kay Hagan and her GOP challenger Tom Tillis. Tillis has been attacking her record on terror accusing her of skipping a hearing on ISIS last month to attend a fund-raiser. On Tuesday the senator admitted it was true.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
QUESTION: Did you miss any of the meetings specifically for a fund-raiser.
KAY HAGAN, UNITED STATES SENATOR: You know, there was one, and what was happened at that hearing, it was scheduled early in the day, and then votes were scheduled, and that hearing then --that hearing then had to be postponed later that day. So, yes, I did miss that one.
(END OF VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: OK. We're going to talk about that. But first, Bob, I have two questions for you. First, has your October surprise that you predicted happened yesterday?
BECKEL: No, It hasn't.
PERINO: Is it still going to happen?
GUTFELD: It's the secret service.
GUILFOYLE: He's still making it up.
PERINO: OK. Here's what I want to ask you, out of -- most presidents -- that I will show a full screen here. Most president that have a second term when they go to put the midterm election and that that sixth year, they usually lose, you could look all of that except for Bill Clinton, believe it or not I was able to pick up some seats but that was partly because they were running against impeachment. The hardest thing to measure, that I have learned from you, Bob is turn-out in the midterm elections. So has that gotten any better with the technology and more sophisticated modeling?
BECKEL: No, actually, in some ways it hasn't. It's gotten worse, and I'll tell you why. It's one of the problems with trying to poll at this stage of the game is that the assumption is, and it's right, that the Republicans have momentum on their side. You can ask that question, and more Republicans say yes, than Democrats.
But with the proliferation of absentee ballots, more and more states are turning to early voting, and people like it. Look at Oregon, they had two months now. Far too long.
But we used to determine -- we used to think to ourselves there's a lot of absentee ballots and that meant there was going to be a fairly large turnout. What we're finding out is that people are voting absentee, because they don't want to vote on election day. They've got other things going on. And there's nothing that -- nobody comes back with (UNINTELLIGIBLE), "Oh, you're really not absent." That's one thing.
The second thing is people are voting in the local elections that we don't take into account, most of these pollsters. Very hot local elections, whether it's for mayor or whether it's for lieutenant governor. It could be any number of things, but you have to look up and down the ballot. People go in to vote...
GUILFOYLE: Right. What's the draw, right?
BECKEL: Right. And they're going to be in there, they're going to probably vote for the Senate.
So the problem with focusing on the Senate alone is that you really can't get the turnout exactly right, which is why this thing -- I mean, my own guess is they're probably -- there certainly will be an increase in Republican turnout. I just don't know how you could measure it now, and it's getting more and more difficult all the time.
So that's my -- oh, and the last thing I would say is referendums and initiatives. There's so much money being spent on so many of those in the states that allow them that that's increasing turnout around a set of issues that have nothing to do with this.
PERINO: Like legalizing the marijuana.
BECKEL: OK. Greg, let me ask you. Does it matter that Senator Kay Hagan, who's running for the clip we showed, she's admitted finally that she didn't go to a hearing for a fund-raiser, does it matter?
GUTFELD: No, she's just following the example of her great leader. It's always been about winning elections, taking precedence over winning wars. It's based on a toxic ideology that American military expression of might is evil and imperialistic. Can I talk about the Senate races?
PERINO: Yes, please.
GUTFELD: They aren't running against each other. They're running from Obama, which makes me return to the conclusion I've gone to many times: if winning an election demands that you dump the consequences of liberalism, why not dump them for good? Because you're liars, hypocrites, and self-promoting jerks.
PERINO: I'm going to ask Eric about the economy but let me...
GUILFOYLE: Can I talk about Kay Hagan, too?
GUILFOYLE: Just a little bit.
GUILFOYLE: OK. So I think she's got to be ahead maybe, like, by three percentage points, I mean, especially in North Carolina. Elections break late, too. I think it will matter that she didn't show up and I'll tell you why.
Because ISIS has been on a regular schedule, beheadings every three weeks or so. And this is just within that target range. If we see another beheading, God forbid, of an American and a veteran, and this is something she does not sufficient interest in, I think the American people should care. Because this election is not just going to be about the issues.
PERINO: And she dodged the question for so long. I think if she just would have...
GUILFOYLE: It looks shameful.
PERINO: Can we get Eric in there, because he hasn't had a chance yet?
Eric, James Carville once said it's the economy stupid. Is it -- in this midterm do you think it's the economy?
BOLLING: I do. And look at the numbers: 55 percent of the population, both Republican and Democrats and independents, believe the economy is in the -- remains weak. 65 percent feel the country is going in the wrong direction.
Food prices are up, energy prices are up, incomes are literally down under President Obama. Percentage of Americans working is at 40 year lows. I think it's going to end up being a reflection of a poor economy. Again, 1 percent is doing great. The people at the very tippy top of the ladder are doing fantastic. The middle class is not. The bottom is taken care of.
BECKEL: But you know what? We have to look at it state by state. In certain places like North Carolina where they're doing much better in the research triangle. The other thing is we don't know. Always a fascination by elections.
We're going to talk about the St. Louis thing. There will be ire in the black community, no matter how you look at it. In North Carolina the assumption is blacks will turn out in low numbers in midterms.
If the St. Louis story takes off over the next couple of weeks, you'll see an increase in black turnout. Those are things we don't know for politics. That's what makes is a fascinating profession.
GUTFELD: You know, you brought up the -- it was Carville's statement, "It's the economy, stupid." I think the motto for this election, "It's the stupid, stupid."
PERINO: Stupid. Stupid squared.
I was going to ask Kimberly, but now I just get to make a statement instead. So Elise Stefanik, who is the candidate up in upstate New York. She's running against a couple guys up there, a Democrat and an independent. She's a friend of mine. She worked at the White House.
If she wins and she's likely too, she'll be the youngest member ever. I mean, she's 29 or 30. But get this: in the debate last night, the Democrat -- her challenger, the Democrat, complains to her, because she had never done manual labor like he did, like -- I know Republicans have a problem with women. But I feel like Democrat men have a problem with Republican women who are running. Do you think?
BECKEL: A statement like that is something that you do when you're running for senior president of the class. You don't make those kind of mistakes when you're running for federal office. That I blame on his consultants. That's something that -- that was a scripted answer, by the way.
PERINO: I would think so.
BECKEL: And anybody who scripts an answer like that frankly ought to get out of that and get into the dry cleaning business.
GUTFELD: Wait a minute. The dry cleaning business is hard.
BECKEL: No. Not as hard as being a liberal.
GUILFOYLE: That was very tough.
PERINO: OK. That was fun, but there's more to come on that in the coming weeks.
Next, there is a new wave of unrest in Missouri after an off-duty police officer shoots an armed man in St. Louis. Eric's been following the protests, and we'll talk about that ahead. .
BOLLING: Two months after the Michael Brown shooting in Ferguson there's been another shooting involving police that's sparking protests, this time in nearby St. Louis.
Last night an off-duty white officer shot and killed black 18-year-old Vonderrit Myers Jr. Police said Myers was armed and fired at the cops first.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAM DOTSUN, ST. LOUIS POLICE CHIEF: I know emotions are high and tensions are high, but the reality is what we've seen or what the evidence tells me right now is an individual pointed a gun at a police officer, fired at least three rounds, and continued to pull the trigger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Angry crowds gathered quickly as word spread.
Now, Bob, I know you want to weigh in aggressively on this, but let me ask K.G. first. This is different, though. This, we have police saying the young man fired first, and that's...
GUILFOYLE: Pulled a gun, fired three shots, so you're allowed to use force...
GUILFOYLE: OK, well, we're just -- fine, Bob, if that makes you feel better, of course. Allegedly.
But the gun did fire, and it was fired three times; and he did have a gun. So that changes the dynamic completely.
So the allegation then is, is it a justifiable shooting? Well, certainly if you can prove that he fired first on the officer. The officer has the right to be able to defend himself. He does not have an obligation to die.
This is a very sad, tragic case, and then the question becomes did the officer use excessive force in the number of rounds that he fired from the gun?
BOLLING: Well, listen, I'm not no criminal justice expert, but if you -- if you fire -- even point a gun at an officer, you better expect to be shot.
Well, that assumes, first of all, there was a gun; b, it was shot. Three, that you believe the police in St. Louis, which I do not, personally; it's only personal opinion.
And the use of 17 shots into a teenager who was not shooting his gun, it was jammed according to the police, which I don't believe, is expressive force.
Now -- let me just finish this statement, if I could. There are those of us who believe, if you look at the history of the St. Louis Police Department, which has been a hot bed of racial tension over the decades, that this kind of thing does not surprise me. It certainly will not surprise the black community in St. Louis. It will take a long time to resolve. There will be a significant backlash over it, and I think it will have an impact.
BOLLING: Dana, the police recovered the gun. Three bullets were missing and they got the shells from -- that were dispensed.
GUILFOYLE: The casings were recovered.
BOLLING: So Bob can say there's a big conspiracy here...
PERINO: Why are we arguing that point, Bob? That's what the evidence said.
BECKEL: Because the police say the casings have been recovered and that the gun has been recovered, and until I see it, smell it, feel it, I don't believe.
BOLLING: After all the scrutiny they've been getting over the Michael Brown case, do you think they would play around with altering evidence?
BECKEL: You're not going to get this away from me...
GUILFOYLE: You're going to get the ballistic report and then check the GSR on his hand, and match it up and the, the casings are going to match the weapon.
BECKEL: We'll see. We'll see.
BOLLING: Is Bob right, Greg, that this is going to be a thing going forward or does this go away?
GUTFELD: Well, unfortunately, he might be right. Factually this incident is different. But due to a climate of racial conflict stoked by the media and an influx of outside activism, facts are now erased by feeling, which makes all the incidents sound the same.
So it enables someone like Bob to take an incident that is different and say, "Oh, it's not surprising that it would occur here." You're generalizing based on a specific incident which we tend to see as bigoted or smearing if it you were to do that to a group of people. The end result will be more unrest, a tepid-style policing out of fear, and an anarchy that radicals could only dream of.
BOLLING: On the Internet, Bob, I lot of people were upset with NBC News for putting out a tweet that talked about the officer killing the 18- year-old -- the white officer killing the 18-year-old black young man but never pointed out the fact that shots were fired at the officer first. Don't they have that responsibility?
BECKEL: Well, they have that responsibility if they have the evidence to back it up. Look, you know, I'm not -- I don't want to see...
BOLLING: NBC, report the facts.
BECKEL: I understand that, but what I have not yet seen is the St. Louis police report the facts. Now let's wait and see. The point is in the black community...
GUTFELD: Then we shouldn't have done this segment. If we can't -- if we're going to sit here and hypothesize and make conjectures and just wait and see, then maybe we shouldn't do these stories. Let's not do them until we have the facts. Maybe we should do it that way. I would like to do it that way.
PERINO: Or we could argue the facts that we have.
GUTFELD: Right. And not say the facts aren't facts.
GUILFOYLE: Guys, guys, guys. Let's not get crazy here. This is freaking me out. We do have the facts. We do know that the casings were recovered. We do know that -- and if anybody fired a gun here, and some of you have, that is not unheard of to have a high capacity gun like that, a nine millimeter, maybe you had a couple, like, two to three quick bursts. It's not unheard of to do that.
And the officer is following police protocol, Bob. If someone is shooting at you, you can shoot at them and put them down until they stop. And the threat is not there.
BECKEL: I asked you a simple question. You said the facts are. And I...
BOLLING: Bob, when they have -- when they have gunshot residue on them.
GUILFOYLE: You want to hang out in, like, conspiracy land.
BOLLING: We'll get more facts.
BECKEL: Facts are a good idea. From the police department.
BOLLING: Why schools in one state have ordered teachers to stop calling kids boys and girls. Political correctness run amok. Greg has all of that next.
BECKEL: This is something you have to hear to believe, like St. Louis. A school district in Nebraska has provided new guidelines for teachers, encouraging them not to use gender definitions, like boys and girls, to describe their students. The reason? The guidelines say applying boy and girl tags to students doesn't promote gender inclusiveness.
I'm having a hard time getting through this. No one wants to demean the transgender community, certainly not me, but isn't this going a bit too far? Greg.
GUTFELD: Well, this is -- this is disturbing. As we know penguins are sexually dimorphic, meaning the males...
BECKEL: That wasn't in the read, the penguin thing.
BECKEL: You have to explain the penguin thing.
GUTFELD: Oh, they want them to be called purple penguins and not boys and girls. They want to be called purple penguins. That's the point. Which is going to confuse kids, because penguins, A, molt every year. Now kids think they're going to molt. No. 2, they're changing into purple when penguins are black. So that's kind of racist.
PERINO: Like their climate, their, like, habitat is going away.
GUTFELD: Exactly. It's going to scare the heck out of kids, who -- it's weird. Modern-day educators are preoccupied with gender. I think gender identity politics has replaced religion in education.
PERINO: Yes. Less gender, more math.
GUILFOYLE: Why does it have to be purple, though?
BECKEL: Are you surprised this would happen in Nebraska, which is a fairly conservative state, as say, opposed to New York.
PERINO: As Greg has explained to me many times, the liberal academic complex...
PERINO: ... is alive and well. And that's where I think it happens in -- the quotes from the guy are pretty interesting. I just think that if you're a liberal and you really want this to happen, you want kids to be called purple penguins, they might just want to wait. Because how would we ever elect our first woman president?
BECKEL: That's a good point.
GUTFELD: We'd elect a penguin.
BECKEL: Can you tell the sexual content of...
BOLLING: Oh, lord.
GUILFOYLE: Bob, don't destroy the segment.
BECKEL: It's my segment.
GUTFELD: You're the one who pops the ball.
GUILFOYLE: That's what he does.
BOLLING: How old are these kids, do we know?
GUILFOYLE: He's a playground ball popper.
BECKEL: Let me pop your ball for a second here, OK?
GUILFOYLE: Oh, jeez. I can't.
BECKEL: Here you've got a situation where -- you say that liberals believe this. I know lots of liberals, myself included, who think it's ridiculous. Now do you think it's fair to blame the entire liberal community for this?
GUILFOYLE: Yes, actually. Yes, I'm pretty comfortable with that.
BECKEL: This makes sense. Just like you...
PERINO: ... the facts that it wasn't. I'm going to blame them.
GUTFELD: Gender identity politics. This is yours. The right has created some things that you don't like. This is the baby of the left. Identity politics. You guys made it. We're living it.
BECKEL: "You guys made it?"
What about the Pittsburgh Penguins, the hockey team? Are they going to have to change their logo from a penguin to a little boy?
BECKEL: No, they can't. That would identify them as boys. They have to be little boys and little girls.
GUTFELD: That's true.
BECKEL: Eric, you haven't had a chance to speak on this. I know you probably are going to rush to get your kid into this school system. What would you say if you came home...
BOLLING: All I have to say is kids have so much to deal with and to worry about. What they're being called, penguins or boys and girls, is ridiculous. But these are middle schoolers. These kids have already figured out gender identities well before middle school.
BECKEL: I'd say this is...
BOLLING: You know what? The inmates have now started running the asylum. That's what this is all about.
GUILFOYLE: Can you imagine if Eric came home like, "Hey, I'm a purple penguin, Dad. What do I do about this?"
BECKEL: All liberals and...
GUILFOYLE: This is a little bit ridiculous.
BECKEL: I'll tell you what. I think if the country would -- I know you believe this, would be far better off with no liberals at all. So maybe we should...
GUILFOYLE: I didn't say that. There would be nobody to make fun of.
BOLLING: What about the Penguin, Batman. I'm not sure if I should...
GUILFOYLE: I do like that movie "Happy Feet."
GUTFELD: The penguins are black. Obviously racist.
BECKEL: How do you know?
GUILFOYLE: Well, it is. It's like discriminatory to all the other colors.
GUTFELD: It's hard to tell. You have to ask.
BECKEL: "One More Thing" up next.
BOLLING: Sometimes they don't -- they lie.
GUILFOYLE: How was this not...
GUTFELD: K.G., you get first up on "One More Thing."
GUILFOYLE: All right. Thank you so much for the honor.
GUTFELD: You're welcome.
GUILFOYLE: The nominations for the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame for 2015 are in. Very exciting. You see them out there, a few of the selections. Green Day.
GUILFOYLE: OK. The late Lou Reed.
GUILFOYLE: Nine Inch Nails.
GUILFOYLE: The Smiths.
GUILFOYLE: Paul Butterfield Blues Band. You like them?
GUTFELD: They're all right.
GUILFOYLE: And you like Kraftwerk?
GUTFELD: Kraftwerk is one of the greatest bands of all time.
GUILFOYLE: OK. So now you know.
BECKEL: I agree with that.
GUILFOYLE: Stevie Ray Vaughn, that's a good one.
PERINO: Good answer, Bob.
BOLLING: Why is Stevie Ray Vaughn not already in the Rock 'n' Roll Hall of Fame?
GUILFOYLE: Well, that's what I'm curious about. When you look at this list, about who's in and who's not, Joan Jett and the Blackhearts, that's a great one.
GUTFELD: Runaways, great band. Is that it?
GUILFOYLE: That was it. I just thought it was pretty good.
BECKEL: Well, speaking about...
BECKEL: Speaking about rock 'n' roll and about songs, the single greatest lyricist in music ever, including...
GUTFELD: The Knack?
BECKEL: No. Bob Dylan.
GUTFELD: Bob Dylan.
BECKEL: Bob Dylan is -- all the lyrics he's written will be coming out in a thousand-page book, 13.5 pounds the book is. It's going to cost around $5,000. It may seem a little expensive for some. Maybe not for some people. But it is -- I'd still believe that there is nobody, but nobody who captured his generation, the times with better writing than Bob Dylan, and he is so much better than any of the people you just saw on that screen.
GUILFOYLE: Hemmer would agree with you.
GUTFELD: You know, I think he ripped off Tom Petty.
PERINO: The environmentalists are going to go crazy.
GUILFOYLE: Lot of paper.
GUTFELD: All right. That was a joke.
GUILFOYLE: Kindle it.
PERINO: OK. I got to see an old friend last week, and she's a lawyer. And she also is a mom, and they just moved to New York City. I asked her what she was doing. She is practicing law, but she started a new business. And it's a product that I love, and I am going to give a gift to Kimberly Guilfoyle. Because I give her a hard time for carrying this big, massive bag around. It's a beautiful bag. It has too much stuff in it, like 28 lipsticks. She doesn't need that many lipsticks.
GUILFOYLE: Twenty-eight pink lipsticks.
PERINO: But it's a raincoat for your purse. My friend, Jamie Brown created the raincoat for your purse. Look.
GUILFOYLE: Look at how cute.
PERINO: The purse is under there. It's the raincoat for your purse.
GUTFELD: It's a burka bag. It works like -- it covers it.
PERINO: Yes. So if you're in the rain, her bag won't get ruined. This is a new -- this is a gift...
BECKEL: Listen, all you people on minimum wage out there, please get one of these.
GUILFOYLE: And look at how cute.
PERINO: Gussy.com, it's so cute.
GUILFOYLE: It's so adorable. Dana, I love it. Thank you very much.
PERINO: You're welcome.
GUILFOYLE: This is a real gift. I think I can keep it, right?
GUTFELD: I didn't get one-- Eric.
BOLLING: So I'll go very quickly. Tonight I'm hosting "O'Reilly," but we have David Nakamura, the guy -- The Washington Post reporter who broke the story on the Secret Service in the White House leaning on him to change the story, change the investigation. That's going to be a big one. Geraldo blames race on the Dallas Ebola guy and James Carville.
PERINO: That's a good lineup.
GUTFELD: Love Carville.
All right. Set your DVR so you never miss an episode of "The Five." "Special Report" is up next.
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