Dallas Ebola patient a public health risk?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," October 1, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: This is Fox News alert: There is breaking news tonight in Washington. The head of the Secret Service has resigned after a series of recent security lapses including the breach at the White House where a fence jumper was able to make it all the way to the East Room. Details now from chief White House correspondent Ed Henry at the White House. Ed?

ED HENRY, CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, good to see you, Kimberly, this is pretty dramatic, because as of this morning, Josh Earnest, White House press secretary was on television saying, "the president still had full confidence in Julia Pierson" the Secret Service director, shocking because a series of democrats, like Elijah Cummings, a top democrat on the panel that was investigating this whole mess and come out and said, "they have lost confidence" or suggested, "she needed to go." Chuck Schumer, the democrat from New York was coming out late this afternoon saying she needed to resign. I pressed Josh Earnest a few moments ago what took them so long, to decide on this. What changed in the last few hours? And they say, "It's just that Julia Pierson stepped up and offered her resignation." I pressed out from his why not fire her after these breaches? Why did they take her resignation and do the procedure. He just said basically they did not know about that incident in that Atlanta elevator at the CDC where a security guard who had a gun and a criminal record, the Secret Service was not aware of, got inches from the president. That was a tipping point here, because the president was left out of the loop that his safety had been in jeopardy again, just a couple of weeks ago. I'm also told one last bit of color, that when Julia Pierson went up to the office of the Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson today, to offer his resignation, he not only immediately accepted it, but said it would be effective immediately. They're not even giving her time for a transition they realize they have got to turn the page on this fast. Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Thanks Ed.

HENRY: Thank you.

GUILFOYLE: And now to the Ebola scare, lots of news today on the first case diagnose in the United States. Earlier we got an update on the condition of the patient in a Dallas hospital.


DR. MARK LESTER, TEXAS HEALTH RESOURCES: We're categorizing his condition as serious but stable.


GUILFOYLE: We also heard from Texas governor Rick Perry, on some children who came in contact with the Ebola patient.


GOV. RICK PERRY, R-TEXAS: Today, we also learned that the some school age children were identified as is having -- had contact with the patient, and are now being monitored at home for any signs of the disease. I know the parents are being extremely concerned about that development. But let me assure these children have been identified and they are being monitored.


GUILFOYLE: And CDC Director Tom Frieden, was on the "Fox & Friends" this morning and said his agency is "monitoring the situation."


STEEVE DOOCY, "FOX & FRIENDS" CO-HOST: What about the people who were in the emergency room when he first came in and said, "I don't feel good" and they said, "Take some antibiotics and go home." Those people are being monitored too, right?

DR. THOMAS FRIEDEN, CDC DIRECTOR: We have a nine person team in Dallas working in with the hospital, with the health department and the family to identify every possible contact and we'll be monitoring every one of those individuals for 21 days, that's the tried and true public health means of stopping an Ebola outbreak.


GUILFOYLE: So you have questions? Well, here to explain to us what this outbreak means is Fox News medical correspondent, Dr. Marc Siegel, doctor, thank you for being with us today.


GUILFOYLE: Happy to have a member of the A-Team. So a lot of people have questions, and of course there is some genuine concern about the spread of this and how it's transmitted, and how concerned should we be?

SIEGEL: Well, Kim first of all, you know whenever there's a new outbreak out there, a new emerging disease, everyone personalizes it, everyone get's scared. There's a lot of hysteria, we covers it, but we have to cover it responsibly because you know what? It's normal to be afraid, but that not the science of this. The science here is that this is an extremely difficult virus to get. And Duncan, this patient got it because he was helping a dying pregnant woman into a cab and came in very close contact with her bodily secretions, that's how you get it. Now, here in the United States, the CDC has nine top officials on the ground, an epidemic intelligence officers, five of them, three senior public health officials that know how to track the diseases. Like Sherlock Holmes, they're gonna figure out, whether these contacts, that he had in the emergency room, with family, whether they could have it. And there will be closely watched and if they develop any symptoms, there'll be isolated. But I guarantee you, that everyone out there watching this thinks, some family member was there, an ER person. They're already thinking ahead these people are all going to get sick. They're not. This is not going to be a sustained outbreak because the science of the virus, will not allow for it. In West Africa, where they wash their bodies, where they keep close contact with sick people, where they get very close to sick people and they're afraid of health care, that's why it's spreading there at a rate of two people getting sick for everyone that has it. Here, it would never be two people getting sick for everyone that have it. So it cannot be a sustained outbreak. It cannot where an epidemic here and we have got to watch all these scare terms that we use.

GUILFOYLE: For example?

SIEGEL: Well, "outbreak." How about "outbreak"? Remember the movie "Outbreak"? You use words --

GUILFOYLE: From the book "Hot Zone"? SIEGEL: Yeah. I mean, "Outbreak" was Ebola actually, and so one patient an outbreak doesn't make. You use words like epidemic. Now, I think we have to focus on the difference between what's happening in West Africa and what's happening here.

GUILFOYLE: But, we were talking about the issue of containment, being able to effectively you know,.

SIEGEL: We can.

GUILFOYLE: Understand the contacts and then being able to quarantine someone who has it, and in proper procedure in their care, and if somebody passes away, to make sure you don't further spread the disease. But people can still be concerned but, if they get it themselves, something horrible could happen.

SIEGEL: Well, and I understand that. I want people out there to know it's extremely unlikely that it is gonna spread beyond just this hospital and may be one or two cases. And look, as long -- and I already gonna say this, as long as it's going on in West Africa, there's a risk of more cases coming here. There's going to be more cases here I think, but we'll isolate those.


SIEGEL: Not gonna happen the same way.

BOLLING: So doc, here -- I was gonna wait, because I know everyone calls me the alarmist here, but again, abundance of caution, there are 13,500 or so U.S. -- the people with U.S. passports in these three countries, Sierra Leone and in the other two there where -- where the outbreak is substantial. 13,000 potential people coming over here, as we now know that they don't show symptoms, they can't -- it can't be that they don't show any symptoms when they are at the airport, where they're on the airplane, maybe not even after they arrive here for a few days. So mean to say that, it's not gonna spread anymore, that's very optimistic. Our own president, couple of weeks ago said, "we'll be working with airports and governments to make sure it doesn't show up."

GUILFOYLE: He is talking about people who asymptomatic and this gentleman got two days later.


BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Let me talk -- can I just call him he said, "So it doesn't -- someone doesn't get out on an airplane and bring it to the U.S." And guess what happened yesterday.

SIEGEL: Well it is gonna happen. It is gonna happen. Let me make a point about this asymptomatic people in airplane. Did you know that the Center for Diseases Control that the study in the 1990's looking at the tuberculosis. Did you know that two thousand people who flew with active tuberculosis did not spread a single case while on the plane? If you touch somebody on the plane with Ebola, you're not gonna get Ebola, if you breathe their air, you're not gonna get Ebola, they can be.

BOLLING: I'm not suggesting that people gonna get it on the airplane.


SIEGEL: They're not. They're not.

BOLLING: But I'm suggesting that there could be thousands of people who could fly in from these countries that are -- heavily infected and bring it here and have it spread here.

SIEGEL: Eric, I'm gonna surprise you, let me make a case for something. If it gets -- if the numbers get high enough, I wouldn't be opposed to cutting off plane flights from those countries, If that's where going with this. But those -- the numbers are one right now.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Let's take on the table, Bob?

BECKEL: Let me ask you a question, and here's the question, what is the minimum contact you would have to have to get Ebola, in his fluid secretions in other words, someone would have to spit at you? I mean what.

SIEGEL: I -- spitting is not the easiest way to get it. I mean, it's literally blood, vomit. I mean, you're not going to get it by touching someone or kissing somebody, you're not getting it that way. It's much deeper than that. It's much for more prolong contact with actual secretions.

BECKEL: OK. So now there were -- it's very, very hard to get and if I kiss somebody, I probably gonna get it right?

SIEGEL: Well, you might.


SIEGEL: But most people not, seriously.

GUILFOYLE: Bob making a serious point. I mean if somebody has you know, an immune deficiency or something like that perhaps, they could be more susceptible. But, we also heard some information about people who might have been exposed.

SIEGEL: It's a viral load.


SIEGEL: It's how much virus you get, and you don't get a lot till you very sick and you get a prolonged exposure, very, very close exposure.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Greg has a question.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: I just want to make a point. Because we talked about this before. The interesting thing about Ebola is that when asymptomatic, it's not contagious. But when it's symptomatic, you're so sick that you often aren't out in the public. Unless, you have to be like a pregnant woman who is dying for this man, heroically saved and is now paying the price. So when in a weird way, when you are really, really stricken with this disease, you can't get out to spread it, so you almost quarantine yourself. Then it gets the next question about the idea of quarantine, the issue here in Africa, which it cause this the spread, it is went from rural to urban, which was a first, after four decades, this is the first time this happened. That's why it's spreading. Number two, they have superstitious health practices, washing corpses, which we don't do.

SIEGEL: Absolutely.

GUTFELD: But the most important thing is that fear and panic exacerbates it. When you panic, you are less likely to participate, imprudent health practices. You do not wash yourself, you do not think clearly, and that is I think the most important point, correct? Is that we don't force people to think in a panic mode.

SIEGEL: I wrote about this in my book, False Alarm. In the plagues, in the middle ages, the plagues spread because people panicked and they tried to get out of the quarantines that were super closed.

GUTFLED: Right, and they afraid of the doctors.

SIEGEL: And they afraid of the doctors and they even attacked the doctors. But, in this case I actually think the military is playing a positive role, they're going to build hospitals and build places for patients to go, inform health care workers. I think our sending the military over there is positive, but we need a worldwide effort here, and a lot of money that contain this in Africa. We don't have to worry about here we're always worried about here, here, here. We got to worry about over there we have a worldwide health problem.


DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well in -- so Nigeria, which is a relatively more wealthy nation than Liberia and Sierra Leone, was able to - - apparently they're reporting that it is contained within Nigeria and I agree with it.

SIEGEL: Exactly.

PERINO: So what needs to happen in your opinion in Liberia and Sierra Leone, extreme poverty, like I went to Sierra Leone, there's barely a light switch in the place. So what do you think -- beyond our troops, what would you do if you had a magic wand, what would you do to try to help contain it and then eradicate it.

SIEGEL: First the magic wand would be build a lot more than 17 of those centers that we're building. I want the world to come in and build hundreds of those centers. Then there's gonna be education, and there's gonna be -- we're sending 50 workers from to the CDC over there, but we need a lot more health workers to educate them. And then to Greg's point, the people have to be educable. I mean, they have to be able to understand that this thing can be controlled by modern medicine, but their culture tells them different. Here comes the modern medicine man, and I'm concern about that and that's something that won't go away overnight.

PERINO: That's one of -- I think there's another role to be played a beyond the troops and I think it is one that we talked about with ISIS as well, and that is propaganda from the United States. Above -- I know that the medicine men in a lot of those places scare their own people.

SIEGEL: Exactly.

PERINO: And I think, why don't we, then affect -- we should be talking to the medicine men and plant like little seeds of ideas and then, so that they spread.

GUTFELD: It's hard. It's harder than it looks. I mean.


PERINO: I know.

GUTFELD: It's like they did with AIDS. I mean.

SIEGEL: A big challenge.

PERINO: But we know that they can -- for example with fistula problems, and in particular in Liberia they've been able -- and Sierra Leone, they have been able to talk to tribal leaders to get them to convince them that their women could actually be sick so that they bring them to the hospital. And actually that was a young woman named Ann Gloag from Scotland, she was able to do that in Sierra Leone, I mean she's different.

SIEGEL: To this point, there's gonna be a vaccine available in the year I believe. The NIH is getting a great response to one vaccine. It will be a big challenge to try to get it distributed over there. It could be a game changer for enough people take it.

GUILFOYLE: Doctor Siegel, what about the children we heard Governor Perry say that some of the children had come in to contact the Ebola patient. And what perhaps would their parents told, what would you tell them if they were listening here tonight?

SIEGEL: They have to be watched closely for 21 days because, Ebola can be transmitted -- can start to make you sick within 21 days usually it's about a week. And they have to watch out for signs of fever and flu symptoms. And even though I've been down playing all the fear here tonight, I want to add that the initial symptoms are flu like. Now luckily, it's not flu season right now. So if you were in West Africa, and I was interviewing you, you came off a plane and you went to Liberia, I'd say, well you've got fever? You got flu symptoms? I will isolate you. These kids, if they start to get sick, have got in to isolation.

GUILFOYLE: That's part of the questioning, Trihars (ph) in an emergency room, try to last (inaudible)travel.

SIEGEL: It should. And they didn't do it to him initially.

GUTFELD: They should focus on the travel history.

GUILFOYLE: It's two days from.

BOLLING: Can we touch on that -- they want us to go quickly, so he did present himself in a hospital on September 26, not until September 30 if was he diagnosed with Ebola, where was the breakdown for four days, this guy was basically -- could have the ability to infect other people?

SIEGEL: Agree completely Eric, and I also think that the health care workers who initially came in contact with him have to be carefully watched. Because those we're the guys, that actually come in to contact with these secretions. So it will be quite possible to someone else to get sick here. There's a breakdown, because they didn't ask the basic question, where did you travel from?

PERINO: But how do you fix that?

SIEGEL: Yeah. In -- you have to involve.

GUILFOYLE: Application.

PERINO: But we have -- there's a waive (ph) about on this about this for several months, in fact there was an article by two doctors and Mike Gersten has written several pieces about how the White House, the administration was slow to act.

SIEGEL: Absolutely. Yes.

PERINO: OK. But we have known for this like for like a year, that Ebola problem that we've known than for four months. And we had the president at the CDC three weeks ago. How is it that a hospital is still not informed about the proper procedures? That's the break -- I mean you might not know the answer to that.

SIEGEL: Well, I'll answer it this way every doctor has an obligation to know this. This is part of basic medical history.

PERINO: Right. I'm mean not by the way.

SIEGEL: It's not about watching TV for President Obama, or watching us even. It's about knowing what you do as a doctor.

PERINO: Yeah. Is it that the CDC responsibility to get information out to the hospital?

SIEGEL: Oh sure. But ever physician should ask this automatically. I ask every patient who comes to see me, "Where were you? Did you travel recently?"

BOLLING: Part of the basic.

GUILFOYLE: Right. We got one more question, Bob has to get in.

BECKEL: I was going to say, people in that emergency room, though, that have been followed and so far no symptoms. You can go treat somebody in an emergency room, take blood in the rest(ph) as long as you have gloves, unless you come in contact with food, you're all right, right?

SIEGEL: Yeah, unless you come in contact with secretions.

BECKEL: Secretions?

SEIGEL: Yeah, that's right. There was a question of immerse (ph) that's a good point Bob. If you see a guy across the room, were you wearing gloves and even if you took blood from him, you're probably not gonna get sick. You have to come in direct contact with secretions.

GUILFOYLE: All right.

SIEGEL: I mean I wouldn't be surprised if there's not another case out of this, I wouldn't be surprised if there was another case out of this. It is not gonna spread. I know Eric is indubious (ph), it is not gonna spread.

BOLLING: I'm not indoubious (ph). Again, abundance goes out share -- I remember when this thing first in, everyone said that all these hospitals that were making contingency plans were being ridiculous. Meanwhile.

SIEGEL: They should. They should. They should.

BOLLING: And they should still.

SIEGEL: They should.


GUILFOYLE: All right. Dr. Marc Siegel. What a pleasure thank you for coming on here and informing us about this. And it's also patient responsibility, think about where you traveled as well. Ahead, the suspect in Oklahoma beheading was arraign today and federal authorities say, terrorism charges are being investigated. We'll have the details, next.


BOLLING: Alton Nolen, a.k.a Jah'Keem Yisrael was arraigned today in Oklahoma. He's the radical Muslim who beheaded one of his co workers while yelling Islamic phrases. So I call the terror, that's my opinion of course. Why the FBI, the DOJ, and the state of Oklahoma so slow to call this cockroach (ph) terrorist. Nolen was ordered with held without bond and even asked the judge his court appointment attorney to be Muslim. KG, can he do that?

GUILFOYLE: Well, he can do whatever he wants, whether it's gonna be granted is a whole other story. I mean, what's his justification for saying that he needs to have Muslim representation. I mean, he's just being honest, this is who he is, this is what he believes in, this is his ideology, this is his religion. So I'm not surprised by this turn of event.

BOLLING: And Bob, did DOJ to their credits said, we -- they actually mentioned terrorism in one of their statements today. The FBI said they're going to wait and see but they're not sure yet. And the state of Oklahoma is also been very, very slow to call a terror. What's the holdup?

BECKEL: Well, I mean, I think there's a lot of pieces of evidence here that are missing and we don't know, we found that they were in fact not terminated, he was let go for -- were suspended for a while. I think the idea of asking for a Muslim attorney makes it wide open for him to be hit from every direction on this. I think there's plenty of mounting evidence that the guy is certainly an Islamic fundamentalist, to describe as a terrorist, I don't know what the official legal term terrorism means, so until I do, until I have more facts, I just have to go along with what the FBI is doing.

BOLLING: Let's put it this way, if the FBI has one opinion, now one on the DOJ another and the government of Oklahoma a third. Who do we subscribe to? Who do we listen to him?

PERINO: Well, I don't know who will end up having jurisdiction over it. But, I think that we can trust -- for those three entities will work it out. And this come and said yesterday the penalty is the same, he would be eligible for the death penalty if found guilty. But I think that we have to give him a little bit of a time, this is not, you know an episode of the NCIS, within a show everything is wrapped up and we understand everything. So I think they are being prudent. I do, worried that we are giving a little bit too much attention to this person, I'm worried about copycats and not enough attention to the family -- the victims family. You just imagine, every time they close their eyes, they are -- we are going to live in nightmare for the rest of their lives and the they deserve our support and they deserve swift justice and I think that they will -- are being supported by the authorities in Oklahoma, but they need to know that we will not turn a blind eye to it. That we as a country are concerned, that we have to trust the authorities.

BOLLING: Greg, I want to ask something, when I'm not sure we have enough time to do it. But is it time to profile?

GUTFELD: You that, I always feel that profiling is just basically assessing facts. But the idea of calling this workplace violence is the issue, because where ---why does it matter where violence occurs? If you get shot at a carnival, it that should that be called fairground violence? If you're shot in the woods, should that be camp fire violence, no, it's violence. In this case it's terror because he wants you to believe that it's terror, so why don't we take him at his word. And again you know, I want just bring up something on the Goldberg said which is a really good point "The White House fence jumper is continually being linked to his military service. But the beheader, the media goes out of its way to avoid linking it his Islamic beliefs." So it' is OK, in a crime, in an insane crime to link to the military, not so much with Islam, why is that?

BOLLING: Bob, why is that? Greg, has that's a great point. If the guy yells out Islamic phrases, he's got Bin Laden, ISIS all over his Facebook page, man, what more happens do you conclude?

BECKEL: I can't offend the media say where they are saying. But not -- make we more convinced about this is, I'd like to see the communication that he had or may have had with the Arab terrorists..

BOLLING: Why can't he be a lone wolf? Why can't he be a homegrown terrorist?


BECKEL: No, he is very much can and that's the he's really would be a terrorists. I would just know of this.

PERINO: Do you think who his getting contact is with?

BECKEL: What is like to know if he did? That`s all.

BECKEL: My point of view. I'm sorry. He did worship at a mosque that has been linked to Allah (ph) I mean come on Bob.

BECKEL: Yeah. But it is, as I said.

PERINO: Well I just -- the one thing it might show is whether or not if he is in contact with somebody, if that somebody is inciting others to do similar things. I think that is where the Intel would actually help. At least we assure everybody.

GUILFOYLE: Absolutely, to prevent the next one, if there is someone else has been similarly radicalized or that he made contact with and has somehow has inspired them. Because that was they want. That is the threat of Jihad, that's how it spread.

BOLLING: Rules of evidence, can you get more aggressive with some of it's been classified as terrorist then would you have.

GUILFOYLE: If by being more aggressive you mean, additional resources? Perhaps, But the point is I think that they are putting our community resources before they trying to get all the information.

BOLLING: How about -- if he is a terrorist -- am I wrong? If he is a terrorist he doesn't have the right to a speedy trial?

GUILFOYLE: Right, Well if that does change, But here's the problem, we're already went down to this path, we're going down the state path and I think regardless they should make sure and make the proper classification, this is terrorism, they should to path, even while this path is proceeding, they can do it.

PERINO: Well, there could be people in Oklahoma that would prefer to keep this at a state jurisdiction rather than for it to go to the FBI.


GUTFELD: But these were a member of the KKK who brutally murdered a black man. I don't know if it would be called workplace violence, may be would be a hate crime and perhaps an act of terror.

PERINO: And racism.

GUTFELD: Yeah. BOLLING: Can we do this stand as for it. Can we do -- this is from the family, before we go on, not forget about the victim of the beheading the family of Colleen Hufford issued this statement today, "losing our mom, wife and grandmother has been one of the most difficult challenges any of us have faced in our lives, for her life to have been taken by such a tragic act of violence, as a depth of grief, we are trying to comprehend, we want to thank the wonderful family and friends who have come to our aid during this very difficult time with messages of hope and prayer. We will miss her dearly."

BOLLING: All right next, convicted cop killer, Mumia Abu-Jamal gets invited to give a commencement address at Vermont College. What does the victim's with think about that? We will be hearing from Carl when we come back.


GUTFELD: Hooray, cold-blooded cop killer Mumia Abu-Jamal has been picked as commencement speaker at Vermont's Goddard College. Now, if you never heard of this college, here's why. Behold one of the minds behind this choice, a voice of the new tolerati, sacrificing morality before the altar of cool, using dialogue to mock the dead.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our graduating students had decided that they wanted Mumia to be their commencement speaker at this graduation. And it's the college's policy that we don't oppose...


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because that is our policy as a college that advocates for complicated dialogue around complex issues.

KELLY: What dialogue is there going to be? Who's going to -- who's going to represent Maureen's side?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The graduating students believe that Mumia has a message coming from prion, from a unique perspective, and speaks to issues that are important to them, that are important in a world where we have Ferguson...

KELLY: Right.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: ... where we have police brutality, where these issues are real and in their lives.


PERINO: In Vermont.

GUTFELD: I think the technical term for that is hooey. So you call a cop killer's words a unique perspective? You just became a heinous cheerleader to a criminal whose victims still walk the earth. Like Maureen Faulkner, the widow of the officer Mumia had killed in 1981. Here she is, again on Megyn's show.


MAUREEN FAULKNER, WIDOW OF MURDERED POLICE OFFICER: My husband was in a community college. He was getting ready to graduate with his bachelor's degree when Mumia put a bullet into his back and then between his eyes. But does anybody talk about that? No.


GUTFELD: Now I get why it's cool to invite this loser, this murderer to speak. Radicalism is what many of today's college students have instead of actual achievement. But would they have cast their vote in front of Maureen? Of course not; they're cowards who likely don't know real suffering, because if they did, they wouldn't do this.

Meanwhile, Yale is welcoming an Islamist cleric, who's preached death against us. Weeks after students there protested the invite to Ayaan Hirsi Ali, a victim of that ideology's gruesome mutilations.

So campuses embrace bombers like Bill Ayers, cop killers like Mumia, and misogynous creatures of death (ph), and they charge parents thousands for this privilege. Only in America, where you can earn a degree in hate and still call it tolerance.

Forget quarantining Ebola: quarantine Yale and Goddard. That kind of thinking is deadlier than any disease.

So K.G.


GUTFELD: The remarks, the killer's remarks are going to be -- they're prerecorded, and they'll be played alongside a video short for the commencement. Do you think any students there will have the guts to heckle?

GUILFOYLE: No, of course they won't. Because they will be worried about being politically correct and having the disdain of their fellow student body members that somehow revere this horrifying, disgusting human being who is nothing more than a murderer. I mean, I really feel he has no value whatsoever on the planet. And it's so disrespectful. It saddens me that this is where education and students are going. And this isn't the first time he's done it, by the way. He's given commencement before.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly.

Eric, if that was -- if your son was at that college, what would you do?

BOLLING: The president, Bob Cane (ph), says our grads express, quote, "the freedom to engage and think radically." If I'm an employer, and I heard -- see Goddard College no and think that these are the guys that chose Mumia for their commencement speech there. Absolutely not welcome in my company.

Also, Mumia has a nationally-syndicated radio show from prison?


BOLLING: Do I understand that? How does that work?

GUTFELD: I don't know.

BOLLING: Who advertises on Mumia's radio show?

PERINO: How is that allowed?

BOLLING: How is it allowed is right, David.

GUTFELD: Absolutely. Because he's cool. He's edgy. He's -- you know, he's a revolutionary. So what if he killed a cop? He's a revolutionary. It's politically derived, right, Bob?

By the way, this college, I just want to point out, is a low -- called a low-residential model. Students only go for eight days, and then they study independently and eat with faculty.

PERINO: And that's going very well.

GUTFELD: Yes, it certainly has. Bob.

BECKEL: First of all, just so we don't leave the impression that every university and every college in America has cop killers and bombers and radicals, I think there's a very small percentage that do.

One thing I will say: this guy graduated, I understand, from this school.

GUTFELD: Right, '96. While he was in prison.

BECKEL: And he has given other...

GUILFOYLE: Commencement.

BECKEL: ... commencement addresses in Washington state, in Antioch.

GUILFOYLE: Antioch College and Evergreen State College in Washington.

BECKEL: Right. And so the only thing I can say is that, if this is the rules of their college, whether we like it or not, and the students vote to do this, what do you say? You can't have free speech? I mean, what's -- I understand, what do you say to the widow and all the rest of the horrible things about it, but if this is the rules and they voted that way, how are you going to change it?

GUTFELD: I think it's a fair question. And that's why I think Megyn did a great job of exposing his answer, which was such bologna. He said dialogue. That's the last...

PERINO: Well, there's no dialogue. It's a pre-recorded tape.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

PERINO: Here's what I think. When you have -- you would imagine that graduates want to be inspired...


PERINO: ... so that they can go on to do great things.


PERINO: Do they aspire to end up in jail...


PERINO: ... with a nationally syndicated radio program, apparently?

GUTFELD: He would haven't had one. He wouldn't have had the radio show if he hadn't killed the cop.

PERINO: True. And who is teaching current events at Goddard College? Because Mumia is so old-school. There are so many other people, that if you are worried about -- they say this is an issue of importance in their lives. There are people like -- you would have been bold. Like invite the director of and the creator of "Orange is the New Black." OK? That's talking about prison reform.


PERINO: And concerns. Rand Paul and Cory Booker, together they have joint -- they have a pile (ph) of legislation for prison reforming. That would be bold.


PERINO: That would be interesting. Why don't you invite somebody like that?

GUTFELD: It's not cool enough.

BOLLING: Very quickly, so the FCC is cool within Mumia spewing this stuff on -- every Sunday night from his prison cell. But they're not cool with commentators. They might not be cool with commentators using the name "Redskins" on the air right now. Do you think their priorities are a little screwed up here?

GUTFELD: Yes. Well, the campus priorities are now reflected in moral chaos, that they would actually reject, say, a woman who's a victim of political -- religious practices but had the people who actually practice them.


GUTFELD: I will say some. I will say some.

Can I read this one thing from this -- it's what the statement from the college interim president, Bob Kenny, this is what he had to say. "Choosing Mumia as their commencement speaker shows how this newest group of graduates express their freedom to engage and think radically and critically in a world that often sets up barriers to do just that."

Who is setting up the barriers? No one's stopping them. You're stopping the widow from talking, you jerk.

GUILFOYLE: It's terrible. How about be refreshing and invite Faulkner's widow to come speak and open your mind and your hearts?

GUTFELD: That's too scary.

GUILFOYLE: I'm scared for their future, because look at what's in their head.

GUTFELD: All right. Coming up, the Secret Service director is officially out. Moments ago, Julia Pierson resigned after a series of security breaches. We'll bring you the reaction from the White House when we come back.


PERINO: This afternoon, the director of the Secret Service resigned after coming under fire for a series of recent security breaches. Last month a fence jumper was able to make his way deep inside the White House. Just days prior to that incident, an armed security contractor who has a criminal record was allowed to ride in an elevator with President Obama when he visited the CDC in Atlanta.

White House press secretary Josh Earnest claims the president still has confidence in the agency.


JOSH EARNEST, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president has nothing but the highest regard for the men and women of the Secret Service. These are individuals who are highly trained, highly skilled professionals, who wake up every morning prepared to put their lives on the line to protect the first family and to protect the White House.


PERINO: I -- Kimberly, I think that the White House has shown amazing restraint in not commenting on this issue and on supporting the Secret Service. They rely on them for their security. So I think that I've admired that.

But I do think it's interesting that this morning they were expressing confidence in her, Julia Pierson, the woman who resigned from the Secret Service. But do you think it just became just so overwhelming that it was so inexcusable and so unacceptable that they basically fired her today?

GUILFOYLE: The "uns" have it. Yes. And unbelievable. Really? This is the Secret Service? This is the best that our country can do to protect the first family? I mean, honestly, yes.

Kudos to Michelle Obama, because she's being quite restrained. If my family was in a compromising position like that on multiple occasions and even situations withheld that they weren't made aware of, it's -- it's very disturbing to me.

This is one situation where I actually wish we didn't have transparency. I'm so horrified to know that this was a fact that everybody else out there does.

PERINO: Well, I guess that was a question or whether or not they were trying to protect the security by not releasing the information.


PERINO: But lying to the American public, Bob, that is -- that's going a step too far.

BECKEL: Well, you and I both worked in the White House, and the first thing that amazes me, is that this guy could have gotten into the East Room. I mean, that through a cordon of -- you have to go through at least five or six Secret Service agents to get there.

When I worked there, even with my badge on.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, the graphic is up there, Bob. They're showing it.

BECKEL: They would stop me once in a while just to make sure my badge was accurate.

GUTFELD: And that you had pants on.

BECKEL: And that I had pants on. And you'd be surprised how many times I didn't.

But the other thing was, I think it was the elevator situation even frightening to me, that they allowed an armed guy on the -- all the time I've ridden in an elevator with the president of the United States, nobody, including local police, could carry guns on the elevator with him. Let alone a contractor that they hadn't checked out through the national database...

GUILFOYLE: How do you explain this? Why did this happen?

BECKEL: For me, I don't know.

PERINO: One of the things they're saying, Eric, is that some people in the Secret Service are suggesting that budget cuts to the Secret Service have caused this problem. However, I just think if there's so many fence jumpers, why don't they just improve the fence? That's sense. Like make it higher. They can still make it look historic.

GUILFOYLE: Why don't they make it electric?

GUTFELD: Are you talking about our borders or the White House?

PERINO: No, I'm -- there is a parallel there, but at least it could be started at the White House. You could...

BOLLING: Allow me this. I'm going to defend him a little bit. Look, I like the Secret Service. I think they'll take a -- they are trained to jump in front of a bullet. When you think about Ronald Reagan, the time -- all those times that they're doing -- the U.S. Marshall Service, the Secret Service, the military. Yes, they had a lapse. I agree with Bob, the lapse with the elevator with President Obama at the CDC was a big problem, but there could be other issues. You're right; I think they've learned their lesson. They're going to fix this. I guarantee the White House won't be breached again, they've learned their lesson.

And, by the way, Director Pierson did the right thing. She stepped down. There was calling for her to be stepped down, bipartisan calls.

GUILFOYLE: You know, there are some surveys, too. That they went to those fine men and women in the Secret Service, and they themselves identified specific instances that there were breaches or problems. They want the reforms. Great people that work there.

PERINO: Lois Lerner could learn something from Julia Pierson, I think. I mean, who has less confidence in her than anybody in the world? She basically lied to the nation and then pled the fifth.

I want to ask you, Greg, real quickly, the Republicans -- Peter Baker of the New York Times, I don't know if he necessarily meant to say it this way, but he thought that it was -- he left an impression that maybe it was fake concern.

GUTFELD: Yes. That it was actually -- it was criticism wrapped outside with concern. So it would look like, "We're really worried about the president, but we're actually using this scandal to beat up on the president some more. He might be right. However, each scandal, every one of these Secret Service problems is stayed by one that follows it. It's like watching a parade of floats, each one is worse than the next.

Does anybody remember Mandela's funeral? Do you remember the translator? Do you remember how crazy that was? That guy was so close to President Obama, and he was nuts.

PERINO: And they said that never should have happened.

GUTFELD: But the other part that we have to remember, too...

GUILFOYLE: Fake translator.

GUTFELD: You have to remember, too, is that among the Secret Service, the morale is very low. And there's a culture of fear. They're afraid to be fired if they speak up about what's going on, because they know that no one has their back when they go up against President Obama, because the media has been on a six-year, you know, coffee break and they're not analyzing these issues. So the poor Secret Service are afraid to do anything, because they know no one's going to protect them.

PERINO: All right. We're got to run. Joe Clancy has taken over. He's a great guy, Secret Service. I think we can all have confidence in him.

Up next, Wal-Mart says Tracy Morgan is at least partly to blame for the accident that left him in critical condition because he wasn't wearing a seat belt. And Tracy can't believe it. His reaction when we return.


BECKEL: This just in: the district attorney in Oklahoma has decided to seek the death penalty against the person who was -- was responsible for beheading that wonderful woman.

All right. Now, back in June, comedian Tracy Morgan was critically injured when a Wal-Mart truck driver crashed into his limo, killing a member of his entourage, but Wal-Mart is not taking the blame. They say Tracy wasn't wearing a seat belt.

Tracy Morgan is not happy about that, saying, quote, "I can't believe Wal- Mart is blaming me for an accident that they caused," end quote.

All right, Kimberly, let me ask you a question. This guy's been indicted for vehicular homicide, the driver. Has nothing to do with the lawsuit that Wal-Mart is now saying they're going to contest, because he wasn't wearing a seat belt. They have any case at all?

GUILFOYLE: Well, there's two paths, right? So the criminal case, well, that's not going to have any bearing on it. The driver is going to be found guilty or not guilty based on facts and circumstances and no theory of, quote, "comparative fault or contributory negligence" will come into play.

In the civil case, what could happen is they could say, Mr. Morgan, this is a terrible accident to happen. However, your injuries were exacerbated by the fact that you broke the law. You did not wear your seat belt. Therefore, you suffered greater pain and suffering because of that. So they may try to reduce his injuries, depending on the percentage amount they feel he perhaps was culpable in his own injuries.

BECKEL: All right. Dana, I know you want to pass on this. Let me ask you, from a public relations...

PERINO: No, I just said that we had a little bit of time so I was giving you back my time.

BECKEL: I appreciate that. From a public relations standpoint, is Wal- Mart better off just not following this up and contesting this?

PERINO: Well, they're in a lawsuit, right? And in a lawsuit, there's -- P.R. is one thing, and their legal strategy is another.

If it is, indeed, a fact that Tracy Morgan was not wearing a seat belt, then that is a fact that is a part of the case. Tracy Morgan is suing. Wal-Mart has an obligation to respond.

GUILFOYLE: To reduce damages.

BECKEL: OK. But -- Eric, is...

BOLLING: I will agree with you and say -- and I guess both and say let the court -- let that come out in court, not necessarily, a little bit too early.

PERINO: It's a legal filing. They had to -- they had to file a brief, so it's in the documents.

GUILFOYLE: It's basically an affirmative defense on their behalf; otherwise they'd be precluded from arguing it in court.

Can I just point out that that's part of the problem with the legal system right now, is that someone who's injured is suing everyone. And the bigger the name, the bigger the target, the more active they're going to...

BECKEL: Greg, have you been wearing your seat belt when you were hit from behind?

GUTFELD: Absolutely. I do want even to comment on the lawsuit. I do think it's a little -- you know, this is when all the lawyers get out, and they talk and they try to do stuff.

There's a -- it's a weird practice when people are in when they're not driving, when they're in a cab or a black cab or luxury bus or whatever. They relax their safety measures. And I yell at my wife all the time, that you just think, oh, it's not really -- it's safer. It's not safer.

GUILFOYLE: Bottom line, Wal-Mart should settle the case.

GUTFELD: Just be careful.

BECKEL: You're right, they should.

"One More Thing" is up next.


GUILFOYLE: All right, time now for "One More Thing." We're going to bring you some emotional testimony from Jill Tahmooressi, Of course, she is the mother of the jailed sergeant, Andrew Tahmooressi. And she is, on the Hill today in front of the foreign affairs committee.


JILL TAHMOORESSI, MOTHER OF ANDREW: April 1, 2014, "Mom, I've been arrested. Please secure me an attorney."

April 5, "Mom, I'm not going to make it through the night."

April 14, "Mom, I tried to kill myself."

These quotes, horrific in varying degrees for a mother, pale in comparison to Andrew's statement that "My time in Mexico has been far worse than my two combat tours to Afghanistan."


GUILFOYLE: The mother, of course, detailing the horrific extent of the abuse, this Marine, this veteran served under the authorities in Mexico. He needs to get out. Let's go.

BOLLING: OK. Very quickly, I want to say -- a very big thank you, a group thank to you, you put our Facebook page over 500,000 likes. In fact we're at 501,906 likes. Let's get to a million: Go there now. Like us and see if we can get that number up. And by the way, thank you very much. And they tell me there's going to be some behind-the- scenes pictures that posting right now.


PERINO: Oh, dear.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Greg.

GUTFELD: It is time for...


GUTFELD: Greg's Sports Corner.


GUTFELD: Very excited about this. It's the Russian cat fight hot tub Olympics. Let's go right to it.

Here we have Captain Fur Bucket. Next is Lieutenant Fuzzy Ball. You've got Fur bucket, he's trying to get up there, if you can see, but you've got Fuzz Bucket, he's right there. He says, "No, you're not going in." And he's back down. And you think it's over, but then he's able to pull a double whammy. He knocks him down, and it looks like Captain Fur Bucket has lost and Lieutenant Fuzzy Face wins.

BECKEL: Very interesting stuff.

GUILFOYLE: All right. This is allegedly a real show.


PERINO: I love that, I love that. OK, so we talked about is mid-terms and mostly about the Senate races. But the gubernatorial races are very interesting. Twenty-nine GOP governors, only 21 Democrats.

And believe it or not, I didn't realize; it wasn't on my radar screen. Republicans have a few pickup opportunities in some blue states, including a race that was not something I was paying attention to, but I'm going to, is the Republican Tom Foley in Connecticut is -- looks likely to win. He's up about four points over the incumbent, Democrat Malloy. And I just think this will be interesting over the next few weeks to see how -- if the Republicans can actually close it.


BECKEL: I want to wish a belated happy birthday to my sister Peggy. I was going to do this yesterday, but we couldn't. She is the -- by far -- there's the two of us when we were very young. She is by far the nicest person you'll ever meet, and she's the only person I can say who has never said a critical thing about anybody, at least I've heard.

And finally, a very special happy birthday, 90th happy birthday to a man I worked for and admire, President Jimmy Carter.

GUILFOYLE: All right. That's it for us. "Special Report" is next. Thanks for watching.

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