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The Five

FBI probe beheading suspect's conversion to Islam

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 26, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, THE FIVE HOST: Hello everyone, I'm Kimberly Guilfoyle, along with Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

Has the terror of ISIS just reached our shores? That is a question being asked around the country as a 54 year old woman was brutally beheaded at Oklahoma food processing plant earlier today. Listen to the unbelievable 911 tape from the scene.

(BEGIN AUDIO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shut the door, shut the door!

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Moore 911, where is your emergency?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Vaughan Foods, Moore, Oklahoma.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What's going on there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have someone attacking someone in the building.
They're in the office, front office of the building. Yeah, we can hear a lot of someone screaming.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you know where he is at in the plant?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We know that he's loose. He has stabbed someone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lock that door.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah, go ahead lock everybody in there if you can.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can you hear this in the background?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is that him? He's back?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yeah, it sounds like he's running around out here. And that, that's a gun shot.

(END AUDIO TAPE)

GUILFOYLE: The suspect, 30 year old Alton Nolen, a disgruntled ex-employee who former co-workers say was trying to convert several of them to Islam. With more on this breaking story, we bring in Fox News correspondent Adam Housely, who has more details from L.A. bureau, Adam?

ADAM HOUSLEY, FOX NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, the question Kimberly, several questions here of course is the investigation goes forward, the big one is whether or not he converted to Islam, potentially why he was in a U.S.
prison, that's part of the investigation of course. There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle of course. It all began yesterday in Moore, Oklahoma, suburb Oklahoma City where 30 year old Alton Nolen, according to witnesses and the two detectives earlier in the day, he had been fired from Vaughan foods where he worked as a production line employee. He will then according to the authorities, go back into the parking lot, rammed his car into another one, and then walked into the front office and attacked two women randomly with a standard issue knife they used at the facility, "I killed the first victim and cut off her head." As he was stabbing the second victim, the company's COO Mark Vaughan, he pulled out a weapon, he happens to be reserve sheriff deputy, pull out a gun and shot Nolen multiple times.
Nolen is currently in the hospital as is his second victim. Police say, in Moore say, very early on they learned that this could be a religious or extremist fueled attack.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARK VAUGHAN, VAUGHAN FOOD PRESIDENT: After conducting interviews with co workers of Nolen, information was obtained that he recently trying -- started trying to convert some of his co workers to the Muslim religion.
Due to the manner of death and initial statements of co workers and other initial information that our investigators have gathered, we requested the assistance of the FBI.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HOUSLEY: So we know the FBI is looking into reports that Nolen not only tried to convert people at his work to Islam, but also witnesses say he was shouting Islamic phrases during the attack. Detectives also said that Nolen was a recent convert to Islam, that's where the prison stand is being investigated. Did it happen there? If so, was he radicalized there? The 30 year old this been time in jail on drug related charge and for assaulting an officer who's released back in March of 2013. On a sad note, the 54 year old woman Colin Halford, the woman he killed yesterday, the first victim the one he cut off her head, she was working at the same plant last year when the tornado tore through Moore, Oklahoma and destroyed her home.
Neighbors say she just rebuilt and she always have a smile on her face and you might imagine there's a lot of outrage throughout this community as this investigation goes forward to the why this man did such a horrible act. Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: Adam, thank you. Truly a horrific story Greg, when you just think about the terror -- the sheer terror she must felt and the other employees at his massacre.

GREG GUTFELD, THE FIVE HOST: You know I would like to wait and hope that something like this is a random act. But we cannot pretend that it might not be. There may be in fact an ideology that acts like a virus that sets off the fanatical and the unstable, and we should be prepared for that. And I think that's the -- the big point, the one point that we know for a fact is that what stopped this guy was a bullet. And that guy was a hero with a gun and a gun beats a knife. In this day and age, the second amendment and a polite armed population are more important than ever. So I don't know what else to say.

GUILYFOYLE: Eric.

ERIC BOLLING: THE FIVE HOST: So now we have a Rochester gentleman who decided he wanted to fight for ISIS and he got caught. Brandon Kevin was killed by someone who was a Jihadist, now we have this Oklahoma City murder. Couple of facts, very quickly, he said -- the police reports said that he shouted something in long terms and he started killing. It sounds very much like the Ford Honascar (ph) where 14 people died after yelling.

GUILFOYLE: Major Nidal.

BOLLING: Major Nidal Hasan killed 13 or 14 people after yelling God is great, Allah is great.

GUILFOYLE: Allah.

BOLLING: So -- the question is, is this going to be workplace violence? I think this is terrorism, I think they need to take a look at -- Greg's right, we better get off the facts first and make sure, but if it is that, I would suggest we go in that direction. The other thing is still the ideology, the copy cat killers, copy cat murderers happens all the time.
They see something, those feel a lot of attention given to it. And then someone else they do the same thing.

BOB BECKEL, THE FIVE HOST: School shootings.

BOLLING: Shootings, good example movie theater shootings, things like that.
Hopefully we don't have everyone who's ever had an inclination to be a radical Islamic decide that now is the time to start acting out.

DANA PERINO, THE FIVE HOST: That's actually an interesting point, because after the school shootings, and all of the news that comes from it, one of the discussions in the media is do we give too much attention to the shooter? And in this case, if we do, I would trust law enforcement and hopefully they have an idea of whether or not this is a possible copy cat situation. And if it is being fomented in our prison, that's another piece of intelligence we need to get. I hope that he survives so we can get the intelligence we need to find out if there are other such people or if he was an isolated case. But in this instance, we're showing his picture, he's getting the attention, I don't know what if this is what he was looking for. But Colin Halfar, the victim is the one who deserves the most attention. I mean, this is one of the things I think it just can't happen in America. That is why, I think you cannot excuse this of any PC nonsense of this didn't have anything to do with Islam. Because the perpetrator believed he was doing something for Islam. That doesn't mean to throw a call -- blanket over everybody who practices Islam. But it do -- it goes back to our thing of the have to have some sort of leadership in the Muslim community to denounce this? And to denounce it strongly? And if there anyone -- Arab nations are going to join us in a coalition to fight radical extremists in Syria. Then I think what President Obama said at the U.N. Is that we actually have to fight them everywhere. In that includes actually, believe it or not in Oklahoma, of all places, that we have to consider that this is much more widespread than we were willing want to necessarily admit.

BECKEL: It is -- before we talk about whether this is widespread or not. We don't have enough information guys. Some -- my first inclination was that he was just a crazy guy. But listen, in prisons, the black -- the African- Americans join together under Islamic cover as gangs, basically to protect themselves. This has been going on for a long time. The nation of Islam has been very powerful in the black community, Louis Farrakhan being the ahead of that. And I'm not surprised if this guy probably learned about Islam in jail and there may be a lot of others, but I will be very careful before we said, ISIS has come to our shores.

GUTFELD: I also think, I don't -- I wouldn't say he is part of any community, meaning I doubt if he would listen to any moderate voice. I think that the way we talk about spree killings, Dan (ph) stable who go to vulnerable venues, they don't belong to a community, their mind is their unstable mind is where they live. That 911 call really does reveal what city ducks we are in this country. Every 911 call now records a tragedy or a crime happening and it tells you that these things are never stopped, you only happen upon them unless you have a gun.

BOLLING: KG, you can tell us that the fact that he did mention some Islamic phrases while he's killing -- beheading the woman, does that make it a hate crime and or terrorism?

GUILFOYLE: Well, look, let's see how the administration and Eric Colder (ph), before he leaves office, the attorney general, how they characterize it. How are they going to classify it? Are they going to say that it is workplace violence? Are they going to call it an act of terrorism? Of course they have to do a thorough investigation. But why would we discount this man's word?

PERINO: And remember.

GUILFOYLE: He's telling us what he's thinking, what he's feeling and what his motivating factor was.

BOLLING: It is not the very definition of terrorism right there.

PERINO: Remember, and we also, I would think some of the Intel (ph) that they could get is also from his phone. Because, we've been talking about the social piece and the recruiting, so what ISIS does is it makes people watch the videos over and over again, so maybe it's not directly connect to ISIS, but I'm sure if he had a cell phone, which almost everybody does, it's possible that he was seeing that. Remember in Britain.

GUILFOYLE: What if he's motivated and inspired by it, that's what they want.

PERINO: A year ago in Britain, military member who was beheaded on the street there as well. There was another case in London, on the outskirts of London, I can't remember the name of the town but the neighborhood, but another woman beheaded. I mean this is -- there is a reason why people that are called security moms are worried about their future. When security moms were first considered as having a group that people studied in politics, they would ask men and women, so are you worried that you could be a victim of a terror attack? And they were surprised because, men that live in Boston, New York, Washington, D.C., Los Angeles, almost -- almost everybody said yes, but men that lived in smaller towns or in places like Oklahoma typically did not. But almost every woman said that they worried about it.
And it's for reasons like this that maybe we don't need the militarization of police, but there's a reason that people are frightened. I think to the response from the government has got to be swift, strong and not at all politically correct.

BECKEL: You points of that cell phones -- this guy clearly had a troubled past, he was sent to prison, he good with the president and usually people that go to prison have troubled pasts.

PERINO: That doesn't excuse evil.

BECKEL: No, it doesn't. I'm not trying to excuse evil. I'm just saying that before we jump to the conclusion that somehow, this is connected to the Middle East and ISIS, we have got to find out if this guy is mentally stable, how much influence the nation of Islam had on prison. He got fired, clearly that got him a little bit whacked out. And so, I think we have got a lot of things to learn here before we jump to any conclusions.

PERINO: Would you say the same thing about the Tsarnaev brothers, the one that perpetrated the murders in the Boston Marathon.

BECKEL: No, because we have a lot more information on them.

BOLLING: OK. What about Nadal Hassan?

BECKEL: We had a lot of information on him, too.

BOLLING: No, but the point is...

GUTFELD: We had information on him and that didn't even stop it. We didn't even use it.

BOLLING: As far as I'm concerned, the only information you need is if you stand up and declared your -- Allah God is great and then kill someone, I would say that would radical jihad. No? Is there another...

BECKEL: I would say that's fairly radical, yeah.

GUILFOYLE: The point is, why would you dismiss it, those are his words, those are his actions, his conducts followed up by a statement reflecting his religious beliefs and ideology.

PERINO: Kimberly, can he be charged while he's in the hospital, can he be indicted? Even before he is...

GUILFOYLE: I mean, can they bring a case, put it together against him, he's obviously going to be in a very tight security situation, and then they can move him to a proper facility where he can be, you know, watched, monitored and receive any other medical attention, depending on the extent of his injuries.

GUTFELD: This reminds me as an old person, of what the Manson family, Charles Manson, was hoping to inspire, which was fear and chaos and murder by killing randomly. In a way, I think that's the way this has to be looked at, as a death cult and it must be treated like a death cult, because really what they're trying to do is scare the hell out of us. And we should not be scared, we should just be deadly.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: They, meaning radical Islam is controlling what these guys do.

GUTFELD: I think they can inspire the unstable, the isolated.

PERINO: And one lone wolf.

BOLLING: And the biggest most egregious example of that is all the sudden beheadings are the way to do it. And you know, where that comes from. They
-- ISIS has thought the other terrorists around the world what really gets the public.

GUTFELD: We didn't even mention the one in Australia a couple of days ago.

PERINO: And the French...

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I mean, there's a reason that people are worried, I mean there's a pattern and it's targeting innocent people.

GUILFOYLE: Right, which is why we have to remain vigilant and we have to have surveillance and make sure that our national security is up to par and not worry about hurting other people's feeling when there is so much at stake.

PERINO: It's very interesting that gun control debate, because there is a big one that's about -- that's happening right now with Gabby Gifford's book that's coming out next week. If you see the press coverage, a very important issue that is happening right now, and I think that anybody would say, as you do, Greg, that the owner of the plant, the manager that shot the suspect is a hero. And he should be allowed to have a gun.

GUILFOYLE: There you go. Directly ahead, the war on ISIS, should the U.S.
be urging all hands on deck including Hollywood, politicians and the media in the fight against Islamic terror. Greg's got more on the importance of being united and what promises to be a long battle. Next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Americans love a winner and will not tolerate a loser.
We have the finest food and equipment, the best spirit and the best men in the world. You know -- thank God. I actually pity those poor (BLEEP) we're going up against.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: The world is a pretty ugly place. Right now, we have got terror, undocumented immigration, gas crisis, joblessness among the young, community desegregation, rising cynicism, racial division, a decline in moral belief and an explosion in pop culture worship. Some of this is the product of winning big wars. Thanks to the sacrifices of our amazing veterans, we have the luxury of longer, safer, healthier lives. Our problem is, what do we do with these lives now? My solution isn't pretty, but it clears all those other problems away, it's war, or rather the war on terror, which demands an all hands on deck approach from the country under attack. Uniting before an apocalyptic threat, eliminate petty grievances and provides moral purpose where for many, there was none. It's a priority aligner for good. And this threat before us is chilling and grotesque indeed, but that should unite us, every single one of us shares an insidious enemy who wishes to destroy you and your family. That makes us family. So, for once, Hollywood, Washington, young, old, black, white, left, right, or center, the time for division is over. We are Americans and unity and purpose is necessary for survival and victory. And later, we can get back to hating each other when it's over. All right, K.G., we could put off our political differences for now, right, when we have an evil force against us.

GUILFOYLE: If there's ever a time to unite, this would be it, right? I mean, why can't we -- why can't we be united in purpose? I tell you why, because there are people that seek to divide us, as a country and some of them are, in fact, in office or stepping down soon. So, when I see someone who's in a position like the Attorney General Eric Holder making statements against the United States or even President Obama when he addresses the U.N. and the world is listening, that doesn't move us closer together as a people, as a country and unite us so that we are single minded in our purpose to defeat terror and rise up against our enemy.

BECKEL: What did the president of United States say against the United States?

BOLLING: Eric Holder.

GUILFOYLE: Eric Holder said specific statement as well about...

BECKEL: You said the president at the U.N.

GUILFOYLE: No. Well, the president also makes apologies about the United States in reference, specifically Ferguson. And that we are a country that has problems racially, and I don't know why de needed to make that statement at that time, I don't think it was out of step, out of play.

BECKEL: I said that yesterday, but I don't think you could say...

GUILFOYLE: You asked me. And so, I just provided you an answer, if you don't like it...

BECKEL: You said against the United States. And I could say that (ph).

GUILFOYLE: That is. That's a statement, it's disparaging --- disparaging us as a country...

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: It's amazing. I do a monologue on unification and you're fighting, it's amazing. That was incredible.

GUILFOYLE: What are you looking at?

BECKEL: I'm looking in stunned amazement.

PERINO: Draw a line.

GUTFELD: So, I guess that was a lousy idea.

BOLLING: Can I try and unite a little bit? OK. So, President Obama decides he's going to go ahead and do these air strikes against ISIS in Syria. And the big question was, was it going to be -- to remain in Iraq or go into Syria without the Syrians' approval. But what he's done, though, and it seems -- in my opinion, I think it's effective and I think it's working, it makes it very hard for any partisan republican to say he's doing the wrong thing -- thank God no Americans are dying, it seems to be pushing ISIS back, it seems to be working. So, if anything, maybe there's a time, maybe there's -- this would be a good time until, like you said, unite around a strategy that so far seems to be working.

GUTFELD: Dana, you always have good ideas about what people can do.

PERINO: Oh, I love to tell people what to do.

GUTFELD: I know. So, you look at Hollywood, you looked at Silicon Valley, you talked about this before, have you though of any new ideas?

PERINO: Yes. I've seen that the farmers could unite -- no. I think the refreshing thing about this latest debate on national security is that the republicans have remained principled. They have believed that the president should be taking this kind of action so they don't whack him. However, I do think that the president, in order to have unification, we need a president that sets a very clear vision. Within the last three months, six years or so, we have not had the benefit of a clear vision. I think he would be stronger by asking congress for authorization for what he's doing, because that kind of a vote brings people together and makes everyone show their cards...

GUILFOYLE: But also...

PERINO: Also constitutionally sound. However, I believe the president has the authority under the authorization to use military force, that's the legal underpinning. But it's the president himself, three months ago, asked the congress to repeal it because he said he didn't need it anymore, and that kind of clarity...

(CROSTALK)

BECKEL: Well...

PERINO: I think...

BECKEL: I think he will get the vote.

PERIONO: He will get it, I agree.

BECKEL: I think he's doing exactly what he wants. But here's who doesn't -- in congress who doesn't want to vote are the democrats. See, you're going to get the republicans to say yes, but the reason why President Obama doesn't bring it to a vote...

GUILFOYLE: In too much on the line, midterm elections.

BECKEL: The House of Representatives with this would initiate his run by the republicans.

BOLLING: What are you trying to say?

BECKEL: Boehner could bring it up tomorrow.

PERINO: But you know what? But Boehner respects President Obama enough, and they have enough of a shred of a relationship left that the White HOUSE is saying, we don't want to do this, so Boehner is holding back, that is a principled stand. If Boehner really wanted to push the president and make a political issue out of it, he would say we're having a vote on this next Tuesday, democrats, be here or be square.

GUILFOYLE: Yeah. And you know what, because he's not putting politics ahead of the best interests of the country. There's a lesson for you, Bob.

BECKEL Come on. There's a lesson I want to take...

GUTFELD: No. The point that K.G. made -- the congress has to have skin in the game. That's what it's about.

GUILFOYLE: You like that?

GUTFELD: Yes, that's the most important thing...

GUILFOYLE: True.

GUTFELD: Because if you don't...

PERINO: Then they have to go home and defend it.

BOLLING: The democrats don't want that skin. That's what (inaudible) skin for democrats.

GUTFELD: All right, directly ahead -- I don't need these glasses anymore and I still bring them.

GUILFOYLE: For show. We already knew that.

GUTFELD: I have contacts. I'm wearing these.

GUILFOYLE: A little odd. It's a thing.

PERINO: We're having sidebar conversation.

GUTFELD: I know. These guys are talking. The State Department is on full on spin mode after President Obama gave kudos to a terrorist sympathizer during his U.N. speech. The heated exchange you can't miss, next on The Five.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: So, on Wednesday, we were one of the first media outlets to bring you the controversy surrounding a Muslim Cleric, President Obama called out during his U.N. speech. Sheikh Abdullah Bin Bayyah endorse the fatwa against the American troops in Iraq in 2004. The administration says he condemned ISIS and, therefore, is moderate. Listen to State Department Spokeswoman Marie Harf, trying to spin her way out of that one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MEGYN KELLY, THE KELLY FILE HOST: It's good he issued a fatwa against ISIS, but he also issued that other fatwa against us where he called for Muslims to go kill American troops back in 2004, this is the problem, Marie.

MARIE HARF, STATE DEPARTMENT SPOKESWOMAN: Well, I think there's some misinformation out there about some of the thing he may or may not have said...

KELLY: There's no misinformation about this.

HARF: What we're judging him by is what he says very openly right now about the facts that Muslim should reject ISIS' ideology.

KELLY: Let's be honest, that must have been embarrassing for you.

HARF: Not at all.

KELLY: They're putting you in a very difficult position, aren't they?

HARF: Not at all. I am perfectly with the decision to mention him in that speech.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Dana, got to go to you first on this.

PERINO: It's like the empathy, right, to be able to say, you know, as spokespeople and communicators, you have -- you're the spokesperson for the entire department. You can't possibly have your -- be in control of everything; you have to rely on other people. The vetting for this administration for their speeches seems to be, I think, more lax than it should be.

I always remember always worrying, thinking, checking, like what in this speech could come back to haunt us? Is this person solid? Is that -- and there was -- I have good reason to be a paranoid person, and it paid off.

So I think that, you know, career foreign service officials who traditionally have done the State Department spokespeople -- spokesperson job have a way of being able to know where these land mines are. And I think that Marie Harf was put in a bad position; however, I thought that her answer last night on Megyn Kelly show was actually pretty good. And she's showed her loyalty and steadfastness.

BOLLING: That's, I guess -- that's a really important thing, to keep showing loyalty. They -- they've known about al-Baya (ph) and the controversy surrounding the guy. They were called out about him before.
Yet, it still ended up in the U.N. speech.

GUTFELD: But you know, it's -- when an enemy becomes an enemy to your enemy, he suddenly becomes your ally until that ally becomes your enemy.
The administration, in a way, has fallen victim to shifts in extremism. Al Qaeda was bad until we met ISIS. ISIS was bad, but now there's Khorasan.
So this guy, compared to them, is like your kindly neighbor or an OK dude.
And then who knows? That may change. But for now, I guess we deal with him, right?

BOLLING: Well, we deal with him. But remember, through the course of the history of the United States we've dealt with some pretty desperate people as partners. Joe Stalin, probably the biggest mass murderer in the history of the world. But we found reason to fight the Second World War with him.
And then it ended up being the Cold War.

BECKEL: I think the United States has on occasion aligned itself with people for a strategic purpose. And this was ten years ago when this guy said this. It may be that he's one of the few people around who wants to do a fatwa on ISIS, so, fine, use him.

GUTFELD: Is he worse than Assad?

BECKEL: Is he what?

GUTFELD: Is he worse than Assad? I mean, is he worse than the Syrian guy?

BECKEL: Well, who's that guy? I don't know.

GUTFELD: Do you know what I mean? I mean...

PERINO: It all becomes relative.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BOLLING: So a lot of negotiation goes on. You want to make nice with the people who, the Muslim clerics who happen to be on your side. I get it.
And I'll just ask one -- ask the question one more time. Is the U.N.
platform, the speech at the U.N. the right place to be doing that? I mean, why bring this up? Why even cause us to be talking about that?

GUILFOYLE: I believe it's sloppy. You know, I don't have any proper justification for this. And supposedly President Obama edits and reads over his speeches and makes changes. And I just don't understand why would you include this when had an opportunity to make sure that this was well- vetted, that you weren't going to push any of the wrong buttons.

BOLLING: You have to assume it was vetted, though.

GUILFOYLE: Well, nevertheless...

BOLLING: ... we're OK with it. You understand the president.

GUILFOYLE: It's who he is.

BECKEL: There's 160 countries gathered once a year, and this is an opportunity to try to work towards building coalitions. We don't realize how difficult it is; none of us will until we know what the history books say. And putting together these coalitions gets Sunnis to bomb Sunnis. It has never, ever happened before.

GUILFOYLE: No, it's very complicated.

BECKEL: And we go -- we talk about what happened, and Obama maybe picked the wrong example, but he is trying very hard to keep the Muslim countries that he has with him in this coalition together. That is a very fine act, and I think you ought to give him a little bit of a break here.

GUILFOYLE: We're going to agree on that, that yes, I understand what he was trying to do. I understand the strategy behind it, and I think he could have made a better choice.

BOLLING: All right. Good?

GUTFELD: You're tough today.

BOLLING: Yes, very.

GUILFOYLE: I like it. You love it.

BOLLING: It's good. All right. A personal comment before we go to break.
Earlier this week I made a comment that was wholly inappropriate, and I apologize for it. The comment became during K.G.'s "One More Thing,"
honoring UAE bomber pilot Major Miriam al-Mansouri, who bombed ISIS. My remark was not intended to be disparaging of her, but that's how it was taken. I should have known better and used better judgment.

Yesterday I made an apology on this show, but it was inadequate. FOX News has received letters from viewers, including from women in the military, and I've taken them to heart. Therefore, let me speak clearly and sincerely.

I'm sorry for what I said. I believe that Major al-Mansouri is a hero.
She's courageous, brave, and she deserves our praise, not inappropriate jokes. I appreciate that she's fighting the extreme radicals that threaten all of us. She has my admiration and my very, very sincere gratitude.

BECKEL: Very well said.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: OK, you missed the end of that song, which was "I'm much too young to feel this darn old." And the reason we played that song is we're going to talk about what the perfect age to die is.

That dark subject matter was brought to light in a recent column by Ezekiel Emanuel. Emanuel is one of the architects of Obama care, and he's the brother of President Obama's former chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel. He says that the magic number is 75. And here's his argument why.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EZEKIEL EMANUEL, COLUMNIST: Pick 75 when you think about the combination of physical decline, the rise of Alzheimer's, the loss of creativity. And I really say, you know, you need to think about what you're going to leave your children, your family, your community. Disabilities increase every time we live longer.

And then there's Alzheimer's. At 85, between a third and half of the people have Alzheimer's. Does that sound so desirable to you? To live to 100, disabilities are very painful. To everyone, the family, the person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: Historian Victor Davis Hanson, on the other hand, says there is no age limit to human vitality, writing, quote, "Age is no absolute barometer.
We all know those who, at 75, are far more vigorous than those who are couch potatoes at 40."

This story kind of got passed over, because there's been so much other news this week. I actually think these comments are outrageous. And listening to him say that is even worse.

GUTFELD: Well, he -- OK. This guy orchestrated Obamacare, which is healthcare, essentially, for everybody, including the elderly. That's like having a fox design a henhouse.

he basically designed Obama care. He's basically saying to everybody over
75 that "You are a burden." Now mind you, this is his philosophy. He's not saying it's for everybody. But he is saying that -- there's something kind of inhumane about it, that you're less worthy of healthcare because you are more of a burden because you use more healthcare.

And he's talking about -- he's talking about people who raised families, who raised kids and grandkids. And the implications that they don't deserve the care from us in return. You know, my mother made it to 89, and at 75, she was awesome. Screw him.

PERINO: She was a "Red Eye" correspondent.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: I think about my grandparents, who didn't live much past 75. But enough that I remember those last years with them so fondly. And maybe he doesn't want to live until later, but Kimberly, what do you think of this?

GUILFOYLE: You know, I think it's small-minded really.

PERINO: Because you want to be here.

GUTFELD: That's what I'm saying. He's a doctor.

GUILFOYLE: Well, it's irresponsible for him to make that statement. It's terrible, because it's just devaluing human life and saying that you have, like, you know, an expiration like a carton of milk or a, you know, 12-pack of eggs. I mean, what's going on with that?

BOLLING: And do you know what he's doing? Let me get to that one, but don't forget: this is one of the architects of Obamacare, right? Obamacare works if people died at 75. When people start living beyond 75, 85 and 90, it becomes more expensive. The cost curve blows out so young people are paying more for older people's health care. It's a much better argument for Obamacare. If he's right -- and he's wrong -- look, I have friends up in the audience. Grandma Bertie's up there. She's 95, still drives to Atlantic City, has a cocktail.

PERINO: I thought she was 75.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: She could kick Emanuel's butt.

BOLLING: She could kick Emanuel's butt, especially in public.

PERINO: Bob, you have two kids that are just entering their -- sort of their early college days. You want to be around for a long time, right?

BECKEL: Well, you know...

PERINO: To see them and -- you said you wanted to be a grandfather.

BECKEL: I would like to be a grandfather, but you know, the title of my book that's coming out is, by the way -- I hope in January or February -- "I Should Have Been Dead."

PERINO: Oh, my God.

BECKEL: And I should have been dead.

But generally, one thing that strikes me about this is there's a wonderful book that was written called "Around the Campfire." And it was about how in this society we take the wisest people and put them in the back of the campfire and all the young squirts up in the front. When we're losing all that wisdom and all those thoughts and all that experience. And I think that's a terrible mistake.

I mean, do a percentage of them have Alzheimer's that's higher than a lower quadrant of people? Yes, but there's some -- there's a lot of experience, hope and strength there that we ought to take advantage of.

PERINO: And a lot of -- I agree. And one of the things Victor Davis Hanson talked about is some of the contributions of people after 75 that were writing about their life experiences, including Winston Churchill, who did most of his writings after the age of 75.

GUTFELD: But imagine -- this is incredibly ignorant coming from a doctor who is unaware of the innovations in technology that have allowed people to live longer. The average -- the average lifespan has jumped over the last decades.

BECKEL: Forty-seven to 79.

GUTFELD: Yes. And I don't think he's practiced medicine in a while or he's talked to patients. I don't know. I've tried to check it out. But there's so many things out there that make people have vibrant lives.

BOLLING: I think you're giving him too much credit for being just ignorant on what's going on. I really think it's far more insidious that -- in trading it's called talking your book, when you talk up a stock because you have actually stock in the stock.

GUILFOYLE: Right. Like Obamacare.

BOLLING: He's hawking his book. Right. Bingo. He has stork in Obamacare.

GUILFOYLE: Duh-duh, duh-duh.

BECKEL: The -- the comment you made was that Obamacare only survives if these people all die when they're 75.

BOLLING: No.

GUILFOYLE: It's the models, Bob.

BOLLING: It's more expensive as it...

GUILFOYLE: The models support it. That's how it works.

GUTFELD: Somebody used the phrase "death panel" and got made fun of.
Remember that person?

PERINO: Who was that?

GUTFELD: I don't know, but they're good saying that.

BECKEL: For good reason. Did you hear what she said lately?

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: All right. When we come back, more on the terrifying news coming out of Oklahoma: a beheading in middle America that may be linked to Islamic terror. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BECKEL: Police in Moore, Oklahoma have designated the beheading of a 37- year-old woman as workplace violence. If there is a connection to radical Islam, should the feds change the designation to terror?

We've heard workplace violence a very controversial suggestion that happened at Ft. Hood. That was a federal designation. This is a Oklahoma police designation that, I guess, is done by pretty conservative people.
Do you think they ought to change it, Eric? I mean...

PERINO: Who cares if they're conservative people?

GUILFOYLE: What difference does it make?

PERINO: Who cares if they're conservative people?

BECKEL: Their inclination would be to make it terrorism. That's why.

PERINO: Do liberal people not want terrorism to be called terrorism?

BECKEL: If it's terrorism, yes.

GUILFOYLE: Are they hiding under the covers?

BOLLING: K.G., can you help us out here?

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BOLLING: The difference between, in prosecution -- evidence retrieval, prosecution?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I know. First of all, why are they saying this already?
Because they're playing it safe. That's politically correct. They're going to do the same thing they did with Major Nidal Hasan. We're going to call this workplace violence, because terror in America sounds scary. But if you can't even say it, how are you going to defeat it?

BOLLING: But what are the differences in how you can interrogate someone, K.G.? The difference between interrogation of a -- you know, a terrorist, militants or combatants versus...

GUILFOYLE: Yes, but they're going to go through his hard drive, OK? Even if there's deleted files, they can retrieve. They can see what kind of correspondence. They're going to see who he was connected to while he was in prison, what kind of contacts he has within the terror community, within jihad. When was he radicalized?

PERINO: Who did he last talk to on his cell phone?

GUILFOYLE: Exactly.

BECKEL: That's right. You guys ought to be detectives. You guys ought to be detectives.

GUILFOYLE: Just like the underwear bomber and everyone else.

BECKEL: All those questions need to be answered. But Greg, here we go, going back to your last segment. We've got a situation here where we're -- what if, what if, what if? But we don't know that he's a terrorist yet, do we?

GUTFELD: I agree. And workplace violence is a generic enough term that it's true, because it happened at the workplace. But the problem is violence is violence, and you always run into problems when you start labeling things.

I have the same issues with calling hate crime hate crime. It's crime.
And I think in this case, right now this is an act of murder a brutal act of murder, that's what you call it now.

PERINO: Why don't they call it workplace murder?

GUTFELD: Yes, well...

PERINO: Workplace murder by would-be terrorists.

BOLLING: And there you go. Why don't they just name it a terror -- an act of terror, because K.G. was trying to get at we. Aren't there different rules of acquiring evidence. When you call it workplace violence, they can lawyer up. They can say, "I have -- I have certain rights that aren't applicable when it's an act of terror."

GUILFOYLE: Right. So certain rights and privileges are afforded, right, depending on the classification. It really affects the outcome of the case, the forum and also the collection of evidence. Right? Because there are -- there are implications.

BOLLING: But when you go "Allah Akbar," that..

BECKEL: You can find that -- you can find that in six different food stores.

BOLLING: You know, Bob, you can't go in there and say I have a bomb. You can't do it. There's certain things you can't do or you pay the price for it.

BECKEL: Does that make me a terrorist?

BOLLING: I would think that would throw him into the terrorist world where you go, "OK, we're going to prosecute you."

BECKEL: It's one of the most -- it's like...

GUTFELD: When you say it before you kill a bunch of people, it takes a different meaning.

GUILFOYLE: Again -- again, my, God, you have to look at the context. All right? It's not said in a moment of just terror. It's said because it's the words of jihad.

BECKEL: Of all people, you're a prosecutor, and you're jumping way in front of the gun on this.

PERINO: She's a security mom.

GUILFOYLE: I'm very safe where I am right now. I'm comfortable. Yes.

BECKEL: "One More Thing" up next. And Professor Kimberly Guilfoyle will be holding a seminar tonight on this issue.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: I have no idea.

GUILFOYLE: It's time now for "One More Thing." We're going to begin with Greg.

GUTFELD: All right. Now it's my turn. Now I've heard that some people in Washington and elsewhere may have misinterpreted my joke about the amazing female fighter pilot from the United Arab Emirates, asking if she could park the jet.

People who watch this show and "Red Eye," which is on late at night, know that I make very hackie jokes, knowing they are very hackie. That the joke represents a stereotypical mindset, in my mind, was the joke.

However, the UAE should know that I didn't mean to sleight their progressive move in having this great woman lead the war on terror, blowing up those heathens. She's pretty awesome.

And of course, women in the UAE can drive, and that's the real joke: they can drive, and I can't. I don't even have a driver's license. I can't even park. It's disgusting.

By the way Major al-Mansouri encouraged me to go to the DMV. I'm actually going to the DMV next week, because I'm a big chicken. I hate driving in New York.

PERINO: I do, too.

GUILFOYLE: I'm going take the subway if you're driving.

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: That's all I've got to say. Dana.

PERINO: OK. So earlier today, this is something I hadn't done for a while. I asked Twitter for some "One More Thing" ideas. I got some great ones. This one, of course, you won't be surprised to learn that a dog won my heart.

Check this out. This was going to be "Greg's Crime Corner," but now it's mine. This guy, a little puppy, gets put into the cage, you know, to be safe and quiet and probably is a puppy that might have wee-wee problems, which I know Jasper used to have a problem; doesn't anymore. But look at this German Shepard. It's a jailbreak of great proportions, so he gets the little puppy out so they can go and have a nice little cuddle together.
Isn't that lovely?

GUTFELD: Awww. They gave him four years.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Nice jailbreak, we love it.

PERINO: Which is like 28.

GUTFELD: Twenty-eight. Twenty-eight to life.

GUILFOYLE: Mr. Bolling.

BOLLING: Very quick. We'll hold off on "Fool of the Week" this week. We know who the fool...

PERINO: I can nominate someone. Hey!

BOLLING: I would probably have taken that.

GUTFELD: That would have been an awesome thing.

PERINO: Should have thought of it.

BOLLING: Whatever, let's move right on.

"Cashin' In" tomorrow morning, 3,000 troops to go into Africa to fight Ebola, a billion dollars, but we debate whether or not that -- those resources could have been better used along our own border to keep Ebola, maybe even ISIS out.

And also, fast food workers want $15 an hour minimum wage starting salary.
But did you know our military gets $8.86 per hour in E-1? That's what they make, so we debate: who would you have rather have the minimum wage, our military or a burger flipper? Eleven-thirty tomorrow morning.

PERINO: Oh, no.

BOLLING: Is that a problem? What's this?

BECKEL: That's about as inane comment.

GUILFOYLE: What? I think Eric needs...

PERINO: All right.

BOLLING: Don't you think someone who puts their life on the line should make more money than the fry boy, the guy who's pulling French fries out of the oil?

PERINO: OK, stop.

BECKEL: I put my life on the line coming here. I think I should make more money than you, but I don't.

BOLLING: All right. Your turn.

PERINO: Who's next?

GUILFOYLE: All right, I'm going to dedicate my "One More Thing" to Diane Brandy (ph), because she loves baseball and so does America. Derek Jeter, people, playing his last game at Yankee Stadium last night. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big hit to right field. Here comes Richardson. Here's the throw from Mark Pinkus (ph). Richardson escapes. Derek Jeter ends his final game with a walk-off single. Derek Jeter, where fantasy becomes reality.

DEREK JETER, RETIRING MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL PLAYER: I want to thank everyone here. I've said it time and time again. Everybody keeps saying, "Thank you, Derek," and I'm thinking to myself, "For what? You know, I'm just trying to do my job," so thank you guys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: A very emotional, proud moment for baseball fans, for Yankee fans. You know, incredible to see that.

PERINO: America needed that last night.

GUILFOYLE: We sure did, excellent. All right, that's it.

PERINO: Bob?

GUILFOYLE: You know why? It was going so well. You know why?

PERINO: That is so mean.

BECKEL: Now, listen, you know I love you, even though you ruined Greg's block.

GUILFOYLE: No, I didn't do that.

BECKEL: I just wanted to announce a few things that I think are important to understand about the economy. It's been revised now, 4.6 percent second-quarter annual growth. 2015 [SIC] looks like a robust year. There are 20 million job openings in this United States. And a lot of people aren't taking them for some reason. Maybe they don't like them. Maybe they're too hard.

GUILFOYLE: Wrap. We've got to go.

BECKEL: Wrap, OK.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." You know why. That's it. Have a great weekend. See you back here on Monday. "Special Report" is next.

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