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The Five

President Obama's strategy against ISIS remains unclear

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," September 5, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, THE FIVE HOST: Hello, everyone, I'm Eric Bolling, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Dana Perino and Greg Gutfeld. It's 5 o'clock in New York City. And this is "The Five."

Well, ISIS threatens to behead more Westerners, slaughter more non-Christians and raise its flag above the White House. President Obama is proud to announce he's just knocked another item off his bucket list. The president toured the rocks at Stonehenge today after the NATO Summit wrapped up in Wales. He did address the ISIS threat earlier in the press conference this morning and it's still not clear what his plan is to destroy the terror network.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: We have to act as part of the international community to degrade and ultimately destroy ISIL. To have the kind of coalition that will be required for the sustained effort we need to push ISIL back. The goal has to be to dismantle them. We are going to have to find effective partners on the ground to push back against ISIL.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Is it to destroy ISIS or push it back, Mr. President? You've also said you want to manage the jihadists. Good luck with that one. Even Henry Kissinger thinks you need to come up with a better strategy quick.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY KISSINGER, POLITICAL SCIENTIST: I think when they kill an American, when they cut the throat of an American on television and distribute it around the world then a measured response is inappropriate. One cannot play this as a normal state to state game.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: So, KG, let's go back to the bucket list, Stonehenge, the bucket list. Do you think becoming a good president is on his bucket list?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, THE FIVE HOST: No. I mean, I think it's at the bottom of the list and he's never going to get to it. Because the poor man is just the equivocator in chief, he's just not sure. And somebody has to hold up the cue card to let him know who the good guys are, who the bad guys are, and the bad guys can't be managed. You can't say a strategy as pushing it back. Push back to where, to contain them? He's not on message with the rest of his administration or the rest of the organizations like CIA or Department of Defense. It's all over the place. It's the most schizophrenic National Security that I've ever seen.

BOLLING: Robert.

GUILFOYLLE: Bob.

BOLLING: Thoughts?

BOB BECKEL, THE FIVE HOST: Well, that was sort of schizophrenic in it of itself. I think -- I know, amazing. And by the way, I love that dress. I know it's uncomfortable for you, but...

(LAUGHTER)

BECKEL: As you probably can guess I don't really want to talk about ISIS. Look, the idea of destroying ISIS is crazy, it's not going to happen. You are going to push them back. You shouldn't talk about wiping them out. They have been around since 1720, then you're not going to be around -- then all America disappear, but you keep pushing them back. They are being pushed back as we speak now and I think we're overestimating it.

BOLLING: We still overestimate. Dana, you know, 9/11 is approaching, I think a lot of us are concerned that they would love another victory on American soil. Should we worry or we should be OK with this, I don't know, bifurcated or schizophrenic national foreign policy?

DANA PERINO, THE FIVE HOST: Everything I ever learned about terrorists is that we think about the anniversaries a lot more than they do, so they'll strike us when they're ready. Of course, they like to us be worried that 9/11 is going to be a problem. I actually think September 12th might be, you know, just as dangerous for us because they are waiting for us to let down our guard. I don't understand -- there's a question that the media is not asking which is this. Why is there a scramble right now to try to push back ISIS? If, indeed, the president had in his Presidential Daily Brief since January regular updates on ISIS and warnings, you had congressional testimony, why now all of a sudden scrambling at the NATO meeting to try to pull together a coalition to push back ISIS? Why not -- you know, the American taxpayer invest as lot of money into our military, into our Intel and we entrust the president of the United States to uphold the most solemn obligation of his oath which is protect the country.

Why do we have to make scrambled eggs every time there's a crisis? It concerns me and I think that that it's a question that the media has to ask along with the question of what do we do next? The thing about the Stonehenge thing, the picture that -- I don't mind that the president spent 20 minutes sightseeing and knocking something off his bucket list, but remember this is a White House that said they are not that worried that about optics. Today to show the president of the United States standing alone amongst the rocks by himself -- there's the picture of that one woman there. But I would have asked David Cameron or somebody to walk with him, or get some staff, or have some -- take the pilot, whatever you have to do so you don't have to -- he's standing alone. I don't think it's a good optic, that image.

GREG GUTFELD, THE FIVE HOST: He went there because he wanted to see what real stones look like.

BOLLING: Oh, I got that.

BECKEL: I didn't get it.

BOLLING: Two things. Can I stay on the Stonehenge for a second, Greg? It is smart with all that's going on and everyone is waiting to see who he gets to come help us combating ISIS to say, wow, this is so cool, Stonehenge, right? And here's another thing off my bucket list. Is he just tone deaf what the American people are waiting on? They don't want to hear Stonehenge, bucket list, cool. I mean, what are they going to do about ISIS?

GUTFELD: It's a symptom of a larger -- of much larger issue. We cannot fight the real threat if we no longer can identify the real threat. The PC movement has effectively castrated two generations with identity politics. We put pigment over patriotism, we have thought that we must fight amongst ourselves. And so when we have an external threat we don't even know what it looks like. We don't even think that it's actually threatening because we're too fearful, also, of being accuse of bigotry. So -- you know, we have all these -- we have a lot of great progress that has happened in this country but it doesn't mean anything if you're going to be headless. So, it's time, I believe,  that the country has to unite -- has to unite and stop bickering and look that there is something out there that wants all of us dead, it doesn't matter whether you're white, you're black, you're Hispanic, you're gay, you know, what's the point of gay marriage if you don't have a head.

BECKEL: Well, but the point is, if we're going to be united, it's a good point, but you don't want him to play golf, you don't want him to go Stonehenge. It's OK if that's the bathroom, right?

GUILFOYLE: Yeah, but we would like him to not have fun while Americans are being beheaded.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: He was on tour for 20 minutes.

BOLLING: Can you imagine with all eyes, not only in America, all eyes around the globe are waiting to see what he is going to do because, frankly, ISIS is a threat to a lot of people not just Americans. Everyone is waiting and this is what he comes up with. Wow, this is really cool. Stonehenge, I just knocked something off my bucket list.

BECKEL: He's (inaudible) everyday. And the other thing I was to say is, and we spend a lot of money from the American taxpayers to put together a military in Iraq that didn't do its job.

BOLLING: All right. Let met me do this. Let's do this. ISIS is spreading, this is really.

BECKEL: Why not? I mean, what do you think... 

GUILFOYLE: You know why? You know why? It's OK for you to go ahead and put down the Iraqi people who have also suffered a lot of loss of lives because you got Muslims killing Muslims over there. The bottom line is if we had set them up for success instead of failure by providing an infrastructure to help them...

BECKEL: That's what we did.

GUILFOYLE: ...I'm sure they'd be more than happy to defend their country.

BOLLING: This is a perfect transition for this. Isis is spreading, now everyone is surprised. Listen to this very, very carefully. Back in 2007, President Bush 43 predicted what would happen in Iraq if the U.S. withdrew too soon. Watch this one very closely, he was spot on.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, 43RD PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Begin withdrawing before our commanders tell us we are ready would be dangerous for Iraq, for the region, and for the United States. It would mean surrendering the future of Iraq to al Qaeda. It mead that we`d be risking mass killings on a horrific scale. It would mean we allow the terrorists to establish a safe- haven in Iraq to replace the one they lost in Afghanistan. It would mean increasing the probability that American troops would have to return at some later date to confront an enemy that is even more dangerous.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Seven years ago. Dana.

PERINO: Well, he was very clear right about the threat and about the concern. And, you know, right after that moment that was in July of 2007, then General David Petraeus comes back from Iraq and tells the president I think there's a better way and the president says well, what is it? He said -- And David Petraeus explains the surge and the president says general, if we do that then we're doubling down and he says no, Mr. President, we're all in. That is why they considered one of the most courageous presidential decisions in modern times because it was so unpopular. Nobody wanted to send more troops...

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: It was successful.

PERINO: And then -- but it took about six months for it to be successful. But once it -- once it took hold it really was handing a victory to President Obama and I believe that he left too soon and then -- OK, that's a good word.

BOLLING: Can we get Bob's reaction. Here is a man seven years ago warned exactly this was going to happen if we left too soon. A lot of people say we left too soon. Can you admit now, Bob, Obama screwed up, we left too soon.

BECKEL: No. If you would produce what President Bush said was -- we have to wait for the commanders to give us their best advice. As far as I know, it could be wrong, but as far as I know, the commanders did say that they agreed with the withdrawal schedule that they had. Now, if you have somebody that says they didn't then tell me about it. That's exactly what the president said. The president when the...

BOLLING: I don't call -- if I were -- I could be completely wrong about this. But I think you replace all the commanders that thought we should stay. If I'm not...

PERINO: Bob, there was on-the-record comment from the generals in the region saying that they were concerned and they were accused that just wanting to perpetuate war. I don't think that was their aim, I think that wanted to finish the job and do it well. Because their concern was that then -- we have this situation which means that we have to do even more difficult things in the future with less people on the ground. In addition to that, when you pull the troops out you also pulled out, you, meaning the United States, we took all of our Intel people with them. Intel is the most important asset that you have on the ground. So if you keep that way you find out ISIS is planning to take over oh, you know, the size of Great Britain and start raising taxes on people, killing them. Like I told you yesterday, ISIS is raising about $120 million a day in taxes.

BOLLING: All right. So, in taxes could mean paying ISIS to stay alive.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: All right. OK. Guys, you want to jump in on President Bush?

GUTFELD: Well, I -- you know, I'm really tired of the who said what first because we have a bigger issue here and it's a country that can't unite any more because we don't see the point. We're all busy playing team sports with this issue when we could just say all right, maybe Bush was right, maybe Christopher Hitchens was right all along, but nobody listened to him because he was an atheist. But he -- he had call this stuff, you know, years ago, but nobody listened to him. The fact is, the who is right stuff has to stop, we have to somehow get this country together and marshal our forces to fight an external evil and get rid of this stupid team sport BS, because it doesn't help us at all. What helps us is finding a new leader, somebody who can emerge and actually speak eloquently about what's wrong with this world. Oh, we are totally doomed. That squabbling doesn't help.

PERINO: I agree with that, Greg, except for that President Obama has about a third of his presidency left.

GUTFELD: True.

PERINO: So there will be a new leader but its two and half years away.

GUTFELD: There might have to be somebody that isn't him, that's in his party or from another country who stands up and prevents our -- the western decline because that's what we're talking about here, a western decline. But the problem is the west doesn't care.

BOLLING: Can I throw something else, instead of who is right, how about I was wrong? How about Obama saying OK, I was wrong...

GUILFOYLE: He's not going to do that.

BOLLING: Why not?

GUILFOYLE: Not in his psychological profile. I mean, really, psych 101, that's not who is. He's never going to say, to admit that he wrong. His first response is to pivot and blame someone in the past. His favorite thing is to blame one of the Bushes, why not? Blame Bush.

BECKEL: I defy you to tell me one time that he did said that recently.

BOLLING: Blame Bush?

BECKEL: Blame Bush, yeah.

GUILFOYLE: This is what he does all the time. This is Bush's problem too, remember because oh, he wanted to go for democratization of Iraq.

BECKEL: I agree what Greg says, where Obama was, and where I was, and I remain. It was a mistake to go into Iraq, and I remain there and withstand there. And I just think it was a bad war. So, do leave it at that, one can agree (ph).

GUTFELD: And that's the point. You feel that way, other people feel that way. Why don't we just say, enough, and look at the current threat right now. That's all we have to do. The true unifier here might not be Obama. It may, in fact, be an act against us that will be -- that will force us to unify. And all of these quibble...

(CROSSTALK) 

PERINO: But the president actually then has to make decisions and not be afraid of American power and American success.

GUTFELD: Sadly he may be forced to because -- it looks that way.

BOLLING: A terror then.

PERINO: But who surrounding him is actually going to do that.

GUTFELD: Believe it or not maybe Biden. Who knows? I'm getting desperate.

PERINO: You are.

GUILFOYLE: The point is that the public sentiment and the politics show that he has no other recourse then he will be forced to act but it will be too late and it will be due to some catastrophic horrible event because he doesn't have it in him to make this leadership decision like Bush did at the time to double down and do the surge. Like you said it was politically courageous, it was the right thing to do and that's where great leaders step in to do not what the poll told them to do, what they know in their heart and mind is the best interest of the people in this country. We're waiting Mr. President.

BOLLING: Last thought before we go? 

BECKEL: I just -- I'm sorry to listen to this bashing of the president. I was like...

BOLLING: OK. We'll leave it there then. Next, will Hollywood help the U.S. fight against ISIS? Stay tuned for that and more when The Five returns.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: A new video from Funny or Die attacks junk food by vamping sullen young adult flicks like the Hunger Games. It feature snack foods mortal enemy, Michele Obama. Watch or die.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHLOE GRACE MORETZ, ACTRESS: We divided into factions, one sixteenth to be specific. They included the candy club, the pizza pals, the chip chubs, the pop rockers, the mellow mallows, the hufflepuffs, and then there's me.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's like the more garbage everyone eats the sicker they get. It's a mystery.

MORETZ: Are you a trained nurse.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're different than the others.

MORETZ: I think I'm just a normal healthy girl.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Exactly.

MICHELLE OBAMA, WIFE OF THE 44TH AND CURRENT PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Don't you hate when trailers giveaway the whole movie?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yeah.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD: So, here you have an exquisitely produced film promoting a cause dear to the Obamas, the War on Junk Food, bravo let's crush those Krispy Kremes, let's ice the ice cream, let's drown Dr. Pepper. I salute such fearlessness. But imagine if Hollywood channeled this energy into something else like death cults currently killing thousands, not Twizzlers but terror. Imagine what Hollywood could do to degrade, mock and marginalize the useless lurid tools who flock to loser magnets like ISIS. They could use special effects to scare these mad martyrs crapless.

They could mock their pathetic desire for 72 virgins or expose their envy driven flaccid rage. Hollywood has the industry but no intestine. And so ISIS is outdoing them, adopting their sophisticated film and editing techniques that puts (inaudible) town to shame. Hollywood could return the favor 12 fold but they'd rather focus on broccoli than beheadings, junk food not jihadism. Instead of leading the way to upend an apocalyptic threat they create propaganda to gain favor with their savior. They go after cupcakes, why? Maybe because hostess won't cut off their heads? I guess Funny or Die really takes that die part seriously. D.P., so much wit, and creativity and innovation in technology at their disposal and this is what they target in a world filled with evil. 

PERINO: OK, but that was just supposed to be a comedy sketch.

GUTFELD: Yeah.

PERINO: We have to -- I think that that's -- one thing that Hollywood does, it does provide people on an escape.

GUTFELD: Yes. So that's not propaganda to you, Dana?

PERINO: Propaganda for eating healthy? I guess maybe it is. I have -- I would take it one step further. I like the idea of Hollywood helping, and I think though that they should team up with Silicon Valley because it's the digital war front. It doesn't matter what we see on the TVs, but you could do short little clips that are on -- that are the size that could go around on a text message so that you can reach a lot more people and then just flood them with all sorts of images, like the ones you're talking about. I think making fun of the 72 virgins, I think is actually very -- would be very effective.

GUTFELD: Yeah. The only problem with my theory, Eric, is that the last guy that indict, they got a movie that was critical of Islam, he went to jail.

BOLLING: He was going to be killed.

PERINO: By the Americans.

BOLLING: I am the -- on the other hand, Greg, would rather them focus on broccoli than beheadings. When they get into that beheading, you know, both politics means kind of a turn off to me like a -- just stick to the things you know. By the way, I have a great idea for Michelle Obama's, her childhood obesity push, instead of this little short film, snacknado. Sharknado is the greatest thing in the world. Do snack NATO -- (inaudible) are flying around, they hit you and you know...

GUTFELD: I thought you meant snack NATO, like NATO a group of...

BOLLING: No, N-A-D-O.

PERINO: We will protect you from the carrots.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

GUILFOYLE: I want protection from carrots.

BOLLING: With carrots, you use the carrots to protect you from the snack.

GUILFOYLE: No. I don't like them.

BOLLING: You don't like carrot?

GUILFOYLE: No.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Carrot stick.

GUILFOYLE: I really don't like them.

GUTFELD: Well, Kimberly, do you think this -- do you think this actually helps, because if you go out -- because if you go after vegetable, then vegetables become kind of bad which makes them cool.

GUILFOYLE: Listen, vegetables can be absolutely delicious. The thing is, you have to have some dipping sauces and she might be against that. But I just think you have to open your mind, if maybe you're doing the greater good by dripping the broccoli in some of the soy sauce with the lime, that's a good one, or some ranch sauce or my favorite ketchup, whatever it takes, get the kids to eat them.

GUTFELD: Right. Bob, serious question, to me this is proof of the doomed society. We have a leisure class obsessed with carrots not the caliphate.

BECKEL: First of all, this is a -- what?

GUILFOYLE: Nothing.

BECKEL: This is a direct attack on the food that I like, and I think...

GUILFOYLE: That you're wearing.

BECKEL: I wouldn't be talking about was on my shirt, baby, if I were you.

GUILFOYLE: Jealous.

BECKEL: I am. You're right. This is a direct attack on everything I like and everything I can't stand which is vegetables.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: You make the choices if it's in front of you.

BECKEL: I think vegetables are bad for you because they grow in ground.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFLED: (inaudible) junk food. They're going to have to fry that twinkie from...

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFLED: Bob is going to out live all of us. Even despite...

PERINO: There's no doubt. He's already surpassed us in years.

GUTFLED: It's true. All right. I'm done with this. Ahead, three U.S. security operatives who are on the ground in Benghazi tell their story about what really happened that night. Plus a special visit from Bret Baier next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: There's a new documentary airing tonight at 10:00 P.M. with brand new details about what happened the night four Americans were killed in Benghazi. It's called 13 hours at Benghazi the inside story. It features never before heard accounts of three U.S. security operatives who fought on the ground. Bret Baier interviewed them. And he'll be joining us in a moment, but first, here's Bret asking one of the crucial questions of the night, was help delayed. (BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Five minutes we're ready. Thumbs up, thumbs up, we're ready to go.

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Then what happened?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I said hey, we're ready go. Bob looks through at me and looks at the team leader and goes you guys need to wait.

BAIER: Bob was the CIA's base chief in Benghazi.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's on the phone talking to somebody. I assumed they were trying to coordinate us to link up with 17th February.

BAIER: Which is the locomotion.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which is the locomotion.

JOHN TIEGEN, U.S COMMANDO: Probably been 15 minutes I think and I got out of the car but Bob and the team leader were standing on the front porch and I said hey, we need to get over there, we're losing the initiative, you know, and Bob just looked at me and said stand down, you need wait.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

PERINO: The House Intel Committee and others insist no one was blocked from responding but these security team members say they were.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

BAIER: Do you know where it happened.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It happened on the ground. All I can talk about is what happened on the ground that night.

BAIER: To you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To us, to myself twice and to Tig once. It happened that night. It happened. We were told to wait and stand down. We were delayed three times.

(END VIDEO TAPE) PERINO: The officer defied order's and headed to the compound after being repeatedly told to wait, but they say it was too late, and things would have turned out much differently if they hadn't been delayed.

(BEGIN VIDEO TAPE)

BAIER: If I gave you that 30 minutes back, would Ambassadors Steven and Sean might be alive today?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. They would be alive. (Inaudible)

BAIER: You in on that?

TIEGEN: Everybody strongly believed if we left immediately they would still be alive today.

(END VIDEO TAPE)

PERINO: Bret Baier anchor of Special Report and host of 13 Hours, joins us. Now, Bret, tell me about your exclusive interview.

BAIER: Well, Dana, it's just really compelling to hear from these guys. It's been so long, almost two years and finally we hear from people who were on the ground actually fighting that night, and they lay out this night in detail. They talk about the lack of security at that diplomatic facility, the consulate they call it and they talk about the battle as it ensued. You've laid out some of those sound bites about them waiting to respond as they are listening to radios of the guys just a mile away saying there gonna die if they don't get help.

PERINO:  What -- I was curious about the three individuals.  Why did they decide to come forward now?  What is the motivation.  I saw your report last night that they just wanted to get the story out there, that they don't have a political ax to grind. 

BAIER:  Well, they don't.  They don't have a political ax to grind.  They do have a book to sell, and it's called "13 Hours."  And it comes out next week. 

But it is -- they said they did this and all of it to honor their friends, who were part of their team, Glen Doherty and Tyrone Woods, who died on the top of the CIA annex from a mortar strike right next to these guys. 

PERINO:  Hand it over to Greg.  He's got a question.

GUTFELD:  Hey, Bret, so the special is tonight, but I already got an e-mail from President Obama's, you know, media henchmen, already debunking it.  What do you make of that -- of that kind of harem of fans that are orchestrating rebuttal as -- the special hasn't even aired yet.  It seems like this always happens.  Whenever there's new news about Benghazi, there's also a planned rebuttal. 

BAIER:  Yes.  Definitely.  I mean, it's -- we've seen this time and time again.  I mean, I just urge everybody to listen.  These are -- this is their story. 

There's all this stuff about there was no stand-down order given.  You just heard what these guys said.  This is their story.  Take a listen -- if you want to know the difference in the semantics here, take a listen to Marie Harf at the State Department today about this stand-down order or something else. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARIE HARF, DEPUTY SPOKESPERSON, STATE DEPARTMENT:  It's been looked into multiple times and found that there was no stand-down order, period. 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  They said wait up to 30 minutes before they went in, though.  So you're not disputing that. 

HARF:  To get back up additional weapons so they -- when they did engage, they had additional, you know, weapons and back up and resources to fight back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  You're not disputing the guy on the ground in Benghazi said hold off.  You're just disputing that it was a stand-down order. 

HARF:  Those are two very different things.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE:  I know.  No one in D.C. said, "Hold off for 30 minutes."

HARF:  Not that I found any evidence of.

(END VIDEO CLIP) 

BAIER:  So, saying there's not an official stand-down order but there was a wait for 30 minutes for all this back up that, by the way, the guys say never came. 

PERINO:  All right -- Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE:  This looks like it's going to be very fascinating.  I'm looking forward to that.  And the book. 

Now, the gentlemen that you interviewed and that wrote the book, are they worried about any kind of repercussions or fall-out from putting the truth out there?

BAIER:  Yes.  I mean, they had to be -- they had to talk about it amongst themselves whether they were going to do this.  They are no longer contracted with the U.S. government.  They were CIA contractors.  They are no longer working for the government. 

After this book comes out, a lot of them say they probably will never be working for the government.  And -- but they're OK with that.  They think this is a story that they wanted to tell. 

BASH:  Eric.

BOLLING:  I have a real question and a rhetorical question.  Let me start with the real question.  A lot of people are saying that the CIA annex may have been an outpost to funnel some weapons to the rebels in the area.  Was that ever -- question asked of these guys?

BOLLING:  Yes, I talked to them about the mission there at the CIA annex.  They would not go down that road.  There were many things, classified things that they didn't want to talk about openly. 

We've reported, as you know, Eric, that there was an effort to get surface- to-air missiles and figure out where they were in Libya.  Whether they were funneling them anywhere, we don't have that as of yet. 

BOLLING:  All right.  The rhetorical question, Bret.  ISIS has beheaded two Americans.  When the number gets to four do you expect Hillary Clinton to come out and declare that "What difference does it make at this point?"  I'm just throwing it out there.

BAIER:  That's the rhetorical question. 

PERINO:  That's the rhetorical question.   I have a real question, slightly rhetorical, as well.  There are two basic issues in the Benghazi investigation.  One was the question of a stand-down order.  This helps, kind of.  This book, I think, helps clarify that. 

But the second one was who pushed the video.  To me that's always been the very most important question. 

GUTFELD:  I said it first. 

PERINO:  No you didn't, I made the T-shirt.  Bret, I actually did make T- shirts.  What -- did they say anything about the whole video defense?

BAIER:  They did not know anything about a video.  No one.  Nothing.  Zero about a video until they landed in Germany, and they were told that that's what the media was saying, that it was this video.  They said that they didn't ever hear about it in Benghazi, never had any inkling about a dust up about a video and these guys were security guys that had to know the threats they were facing day-to-day. 

PERINO:  I just want to make sure the book had to -- the government did clear the contents of this information, am I right?

BAIER:  We talked to the CIA.  They have the book.  Whether there was an official sign-off or not, we don't know.  But they usually go through that process. 

PERINO:  Definitely.  All right.  We're going to be watching tonight.  Thank you so much for joining us. 

BAIER:  All right, see you guys. 

PERINO:  OK.

Reminder "13 Hours" airs at 10 p.m. Eastern.  Don't miss it.  Up next, what's the most urgent challenge the world is facing right now?  According to Hillary Clinton, I'll give you a hint.  It's not ISIS.  Find out when "The Five" returns. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE:  You were dancing.

What would you say is the most urgent challenge facing our country right now?  ISIS?  Maybe Iran's nukes?  Well, according to Hillary Clinton it's climate change. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HILLARY CLINTON, FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE:  This is the most consequential, urgent, sweeping collection of challenges we face as a nation and a world.  I'm absolutely confident we can forge the kind of clean energy future that our children and grandchildren deserve before it's too late. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE:  And she's not the only secretary of state on that band wagon.  Here's John Kerry earlier this year. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE:  Think about this.  Terrorism.  Epidemics.  Poverty.  The proliferation of weapons of mass destruction.  All challenges that know no borders.  The reality is that climate change ranks right up there with every single one of them; perhaps even the world's most fearsome weapon of mass destruction. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE:  All right.  Figure that one out. 

And Kerry took his message up a lot this week, arguing it's in the Bible for us to protect the planet. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KERRY:  Confronting climate change is, in the long run, one of the greatest challenges that we face.  And you can see this duty or responsibility laid out in scriptures, clearly. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE:  Freezing in here.  I've heard of this climate change.

OK, Greg, you're -- you want to take issue specifically with his reference saying God, the Bible tells us we need to address this. 

GUTFELD:  Kerry, what he said is telling, and it's frightening for three reasons, and I wrote them down here. 

When you choose scripture over science in matters of climate change, that means you are out of ideas.  Scriptures do not address the pause in warming that's been going on for at least 15 years or maybe 26 years.  There's nothing in the Bible about that. 

GUTFELD:  No. 2, he has shown that climate change has become a full-fledged religion with gods and devils and sins.  We have indulgences which are in the shape of these carbon offsets.  It's a religion.

And three -- this is the most disturbing one -- Kerry is linking the apocalypse to a holy book.  That sounds really familiar. 

BOLLING:  Ooh.

GUILFOYLE:  All right.  Bolling, how do you see this?  Where is Hillary Clinton going with this?  She doesn't need a Republican to defeat her.  She's doing it herself.

BOLLING:  She -- let me read her quote: "Climate change is the most consequential urgent sweeping collection of challenges we face as a nation."

I would say beheaded Americans, Iran with nukes, $4 gasoline, 92 million Americans who aren't working right now.  Those who would be more consequential and more urgent things for -- if that -- by the way, if that's what -- if that's what a 2016 president is going to look like to have at the top of her agenda climate change, well, then maybe we should look somewhere else for a president.  Period.  This is going to come back to haunt her the way "we were broke leaving the White House' did. 

BECKEL:  Climate change is so much more consequential than ISIS ever was.  It's like putting the United States military up against the Boy Scouts.

GUILFOYLE:  Is this a joke?

BECKEL:  No, that's a joke.  The ad...

BECKEL:  You've got to...

GUILFOYLE:  Climate change is of more consequence of a threat to the United States?

BECKEL:  I have people who I think scientifically have a good argument.  Other people say they have a good argument.  We disagree with it.  But the idea of suggesting that ISIS is more important than climate change is just absurd, as far as I'm concerned.  That's all. 

GUTFELD:  I don't believe one increase in Celsius ever beheaded anybody. 

BOLLING:  Or Iran... 

GUILFOYLE:  You know what?  That's just like sticking to the ideology and making the talking points, because that sounds ridiculous, Bob.  It really does.  You think that's the biggest concern, it's bigger than ISIS or any of these other issues that are facing Americans, like people who can't support their families and don't have jobs and don't have food and can't put gas in their car, in case of any of these things?  Let's get a focus, Dana. 

BECKEL:  You have a right-wing grudge against the president of the United States.  I mean, it's -- you know, it's on and on and on.

PERINO:  The United States...

BECKEL:  Anything you can do to drop Obama down, go ahead and do it.

GUILFOYLE:  I have a grudge against ineffective leadership and lack of responsibility. 

BECKEL:  You have a grudge against Obama, and you know it.

GUILFOYLE:  I just want him to stand up, do something. 

PERINO:  I have five points, but I'm only going to make one.  And that is that if president -- if Secretary of State John Kerry really believes that that's a biblical issue, does he also agree that the people in Africa who are suffering from an out-of-control Ebola virus deserve our help, as well?  I would argue it does. 

Michael Gershon (ph) writes in The Washington Post today that we are on the verge of seeing a major global health disaster.  Most Democrats will say that one of the things they appreciated about President George W. Bush was his effective and commitment to Africa. 

GUILFOYLE:  Yes.  Tirelessly advocacy. 

PERINO:  Because it saved millions of lives.  I hope that the administration figures out a way to think about the Ebola crisis, and the No. 1 thing that they need to think about.  That is the challenge.

If they're worried about poor people in third-world countries, that -- that issue is the most important one and actually one that we can do something about.  There's not one policy prescription that any of the Democrats put forward that would actually have an impact on a serious issue that is climate change.  I don't think it's not the most important issue, but I think it's a serious one, but they don't have a single thing that would actually bring down global emissions, because they can't get a global agreement.  They can't get a global agreement on anything.

GUTFELD:  But you know what they do?  They will take any issue, whether it's Ebola or any kind of violent -- violence, and they will link to it climate change.  They'll say climate change causes everything. 

PERINO:  Climate change causes racism. 

GUTFELD:  Yes.

PERINO:  They have made that argument. 

GUTFELD:  Yes, yes. 

GUILFOYLE:  All right.  Well, yes. 

Ahead, the late-night hosts pay their respects to legendary comedian Joan Rivers, who passed away yesterday.  Their touching tribute to the queen of comedy, coming up on "The Five."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC: "IT'S THE MOST WONDERFUL TIME OF THE YEAR")

BECKEL:  I'm sure they had a better song than that.

But anyway, everybody watch this show knows I love Christmas, right?  I decorate my house.  And by the way, I'm going to do it one more time this year.  But...

GUILFOYLE:  Every year you say it's the last time. 

BECKEL:  I know.  I keep saying that, but I decided to keep Christmas.

However, I don't like to see Christmas starting when today it's 95 degrees here in New York City, and today we're promoting Christmas.  K-mart has come out with its very first Christmas ad, and it's 95 degrees.  K-mart, get it together.  All right?  Really.  Don't ruin this for us.  Let's go.  Let's take a look at it. 

GUILFOYLE:  It's actually 82.  Eighty-two.

BECKEL:  I bet you can't wait.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) 

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE:  Hello, America.  It's too early for Christmas, so just to be clear, this is not Christmas commercial. 

However, let's say you have an event in late December that you need a lot of gifts for.  Like maybe your entire family is having a birthday on the same day.  Now is the time to go K-mart and put those gifts on layaway and them pick them up just in time for the big non-Christmas celebration. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL:  I'm just trying to figure out what that was -- a computer- generated person.  The -- well, there you go.  I mean, it's -- what do you think, Eric?  You like this this early?

BOLLING:  I don't think we should be having Christmas ads this early.  But you know what?  Who cares?  It's a great ad.  It's got everyone talking about it.  It was done the right way.  You know, it's tongue in cheek -- "Oh, we shouldn't talk about Christmas now" -- and then they roll out a Christmas ad.  Fantastic.  Great job, K-mart. 

PERINO:  I think if you're in a swing state for the election you would rather have Christmas commercials right now than the political commercials, don't you think, Bob?

BECKEL:  I think that's true. 

PERINO:  I always remind everybody on the 25th of every month that they only have "X" number of shopping days left, and we're getting closer, everybody.  I don't know what Greg is going to buy me this year. 

GUILFOYLE:  Probably nothing, like last year.

GUTFELD:  I actually -- I'm going to make you something. 

GUILFOYLE:  Gator arms.  Gator arms.  Every time I get stuck with him as my secret Santa, and it's always a framed picture of yourself. 

GUTFELD:  Exactly.  All right. 

The big point about this, this is the great thing about Christianity.  Our only extremism is in shopping.  We don't behead; we just go shopping. 

BECKEL:  So you think this is OK to do this, too?

GUTFELD:  Well, I thought they did -- it was clever. 

GUILFOYLE:  Clever, yes.  I absolutely loved it.  I love K-Mart.  They have the best Jacqueline Smith sheets ever.  They are so soft on your skin. 

BECKEL:  K-Mart? 

GUILFOYLE:  Yes.

BECKEL:  Yes, I guess they do.  I don't know; I never shopped at K-Mart, but I'm sure they're fine.  They probably have great things.

GUTFELD:  What does "K" stand for?

BECKEL:  Korean. 

GUTFELD:  Korean?

BECKEL:  I thought it was, wasn't it?  Oh, that was E.J. Corvettes (ph).  I'm sorry; that was something else. 

GUILFOYLE:  What is wrong with you?

BECKEL:  Anyway, what is wrong with me?  I just -- there's lots of things wrong with me.

GUILFOYLE:  How can you blow up your own segment?

BECKEL:  One of these items -- K-mart -- I just wish you wouldn't have done that.  But it's your business, and you can do what you want.  And you can stop it, too, I guess.

"One More Thing" is up next. 

GUILFOYLE:  What are you going to do with (ph) K-Mart for now?

BECKEL:  No.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING:  All right.  Time for "One More Thing" -- Bob.

BECKEL:  We had a terrible loss this week with Joan Rivers passing away, and the late-night comedians talked about it.  The only person we're missing here is Greg.  But Greg had a good take on it last night. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID LETTERMAN, HOST, CBS'S "THE LATE SHOW WITH DAVID LETTERMAN":  Oh, my God.  The force and power of her comedy was overwhelming.  I don't know a real pioneer for other women looking for careers in stand-up comedy. 

JIMMY FALLON, HOST, NBC'S "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JIMMY FALLON":  She's one of the funniest people in the world, ever.  We loved her.  We will definitely miss her.  Gosh, Joan Rivers, one of the greatest. 

JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, ABC'S "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE":  Joan was a very lucky person, because she loved her job so much she never wanted to stop.  And she didn't have to stop, because she was so great at it.

SETH MEYERS, HOST, NBC'S "LATE NIGHT WITH SETH MEYERS":  I wish she was here right now, because if she was here right now, she would make a joke about how she just passed away.  And she would get away with it, because it would be really funny.  So we will miss you, Joan Rivers. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL:  We certainly will. 

GUILFOYLE:  What?

BOLLING:  All right.  Dana, you're up. 

PERINO:  Here's something exciting that you can do.  Kids, families, everybody, you should go and follow on Instagram my friend Trey Bohn (ph) at Bohn's (ph) Voyage.  We have some pictures.

He has -- he saved up a lot of money.  He's taking a trip around the world.  You would not believe some of the pictures and places that he has been.  This adventure is absolutely amazing.  He has seen the giant Buddha.  He's been at Wat Suan Dok Temple.

GUTFELD:  Ooh, must be nice.

PERINO:  Yes.  Pramadan Temple at sunset in Indonesia.  He climbed a summit.  He's met all sorts of people.  He is the most interesting man in the world.  And I just think...

GUILFOYLE:  You mean not Greg?

PERINO:  It's a really amazing trip.  I wish I would have the guts to do it myself.

GUTFELD:  Everybody loves looking at other people's travel photos. 

PERINO:  Why not?

GUTFELD:  Everybody loves...

PERINO:  I do.  I love to look at people's travel to.

GUTFELD:  I hate them.

PERINO:  Especially sunsets.  In case you want to send some. 

GUILFOYLE:  Oh, no.  Are you going to do "I hate these people"? 

GUTFELD:  Oh, God.  Not the sunset.

PERINO:  Please send Greg pictures of your travels. 

GUTFELD:  Don't do it.  I will block you. 

GUILFOYLE:  I'll send you mine from Disneyland.  Yay.

BOLLING:  All righty.  OK.  So it's Friday, so it's time for...

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

GRAPHIC:  Fool of the Week.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING:  That's right, "Fool of the Week."  So many to choose from this week.  Secretary of State John Kerry talking about scriptures and global warming, Eric Roberts talking about blaming Bush for ISIS.  This one had -- overwhelmingly had to be it.  Now watch. 

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D-FL), CHAIRMAN, DEMOCRATIC NATIONAL COMMITTEE:  Scott Walker has given women the back of his hand.  What Republican Tea Party extremists like Scott Walker are doing is they are grabbing us by the hair and pulling us back. 

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING:  So, DWS, I think you owe all women an apology.  You should not use domestic violence.  It's a severe problem, not to be used for hyperbolic, partisan hackery.  For that, you're fool of the week.

BECKEL:  Hyperbolic?

PERINO:  Yes, that's a good word.

BECKEL:  I didn't know that word.

BOLLING:  Greg, you're up.

GUTFELD:  You know, I hate giant spiders.  Take a look at this one. 

GUILFOYLE:  What?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(SCREAMING)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUTFELD:  Actually, as you can see, it's just a dog in a spider costume.  Dogs can be really clever. 

PERINO:  I know one. 

BOLLING:  That was one of the funniest pranks. 

GUTFELD:  Yes.  Chico the dog spider.  It was in Poland, a guy named Sylvester War-zeblahblah (ph). 

BECKEL:  That's not a movie?

GUTFELD:  No.

BOLLING:  Somebody put a spider costume on a dog.

GUILFOYLE:  And he ran around.  Bob, did you not see this whole thing?

BECKEL:  No, I just thought it was a television movie trailer. 

BOLLING:  K.G., bring it on home. 

GUILFOYLE:  All right.  Are you ready for some football?  I am.  And some wings and some (UNINTELLIGIBLE) and popcorn and, like, all kinds of ribs.

PERINO:  Broccoli.

GUILFOYLE:  Broccoli with some dipping sauce.  There you go. 

Take a look at this.  Oh, my gosh.  Brutal beating.  Unfortunately for the Green Bay Packers, still the champions, looking like it last night.  Seattle Seahawks.  And of course, the Packers were expected to be an NFC  favorite.  Let's see how that shapes up.  Greta Van Susteren maybe needs to go in and coach her Green Bay team.

BOLLING:  Seattle looking tough.  Beast mode. 

Leave it right there.  Set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five."  "Special Report" on deck.  Have a great weekend, everybody.  See you Monday. 

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