President Obama calls for calm in Ferguson

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," August 18, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Explosive new video of the latest round of rioting and protesting in Ferguson, Missouri, last night. Police fired tear gas into the crowd. Two were shot in the melee as tensions remain extremely high.

Those images prompted Missouri Governor Nixon to call in the National Guard. They'll attempt to do what the Ferguson police, the St. Louis County police and the Missouri state police could not do -- keep the peace in Ferguson.

In addition, he will end a curfew that has only seemed to incite more violence these last few nights.

Famed pathologist Dr. Michael Baden was called in by the brown family to perform a second autopsy. Here are the highlights of what he found.


DR. MICHAEL BADEN, FORENSIC PATHOLOGIST: In this instance there's no gunshot residues on the skin surface, so that the muzzle of the gun was at least one or two feet away. There are six bullets struck him. Six bullets struck, and two may have re-entered after the gunshot wounds fell flat down unprotected and got those abrasions. Otherwise, no evidence much a struggle.


BOLLING: And President Obama weighed in just moments ago.


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: The Justice Department has opened an independent, federal civil rights investigation into the death of Michael Brown. I understand the passions and the anger that arise over the death of Michael Brown. Giving in to that anger by looting, or carrying guns, and even attacking the police only disserves to raise tensions. In too many communities around the country, a gulf of mistrust exists between local residents and law enforcement. In too many communities, too many young men of color are left behind and seen only as objects of fear.


BOLLING: OK. So, we have two topics. We have Michael Baden, Dr. Michael Baden doing the autopsy, telling us what he found. And then President Obama weighing in on what the way he sees Ferguson.

Start on Michael Baden. We heard him talk about six gunshots. He wasn't very definitive on a lot of things.

Did he answer any questions?

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: I'll tell you why because he had the body. OK? But there's a lot of other evidence around forensics that if he had available to them he would examine that would help piece the puzzle together.

He's telling you what he knows about the young man's body, right? From head to toe, in terms of where the shots were. We know they all came from the front. But we know they weren't at such close range, that there was what's called GSR, gunshot residue.

What you do is when you discharge a weapon, the blowback comes across your hand. You would see that on a shooter, you would also see GSR on the body of the victim. And he's saying we didn't see that there. So, we know he was shot from the front but not right up like this. That also helps put some, I guess some light, shed some light onto the situation.

He would like to have all of the evidence with him in front of him in terms of all the bullets, stuff, et cetera because that's important to see the trajectory, where everything was coming from.

Right now, that doesn't necessarily help with the protester situation, saying that this was a young man that was murdered in cold blood with hands up. There are still some questions remaining as to his angling and posturing.

BOLLING: Go ahead. You want to jump into this? What -- did we learn anything new or do we just, you know, create more questions?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: What was weird for me, I'm not a coroner. But there are people in the media that are interested in an unblemished narrative. They want it to be perfect.

So, you have a journalist at "The New York Times", Appelbaum I think is his name, tweeting why does it matter whether he was on drugs?

Well, it matters because it's a fact. And you're in journalism why would you discount a fact because you don't like the fact is part of the narrative that you wish to keep.

So, the yearn for an unblemished story line, and they're not going to get it. And the media, in the end, we're going to have more egg on their face than, I don't know, a guy with lots of eggs on their faces.

BOLLING: Dana, you interested by the way that press conference was delivered. You had the attorneys for Michael Brown come out and make some sometimes. And literally, Dr. Michael Baden refuted some of the things that the attorney had said literally minutes prior to that. I was just watching that in shock and awe. Like don't they get their story together?

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Ideally, you would in a crisis communications situation. But from the beginning, with this story, whether it's from the police department, or from the families or from the protesters, or the looters themselves, no one is exactly in lockstep when it comes to locking down a story.

But that I think goes to Greg's point which is it's not necessarily going to be cut and dried. It's not going to fit into a novel.

You know, in a novel you have the ability to create characters, and you get to set the scene exactly as you want it. Real life isn't like that. It's harder, and the investigations take time.

BOLLING: Bob, a lot of this started, a lot of rioting started, with the hands up. Remember how many times we've seen hands up. We've seen attorneys do it. We've seen the family do it. We've seen Al Sharpton do it. The hands up was the issue.

Dr. Michael Baden wasn't able to lock down the fact that Michael Brown ever had his hands up when he was shot.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Well, I'm not sure -- I mean, I just don't know enough about how all this stuff works to draw any conclusions about it.

The only thing I will say is the gunshot residue, Baden did say he would have liked to have the kid's clothes.

GUILFOYLE: Clothing.

BECKEL: That would tell whether there was some gunshot residue.

But I don't know what that says about your hands up, your hands down. I don't know. I assume Baden, if he thought he could draw some conclusions would have said something. He didn't say that.

So -- but I can't imagine, that during this event, that there weren't people around with cameras or something that took pictures of what happened. Maybe there weren't. But there certainly were witnesses.

The other thing that strikes me is the way rumors start flying around these things like this, you know, you had a night of calm, and then all of a sudden you have people who didn't want a night of calm.

GUTFELD: But, you know, can I address the reason why that changed? So much for kinder, gentler policing. Once you did this appropriate outreach with Johnson that was perceived as an appeasement in a way which is counterproductive to enforcement, we condemned the militarization which energized the looters, and unfortunately shopkeepers -- shopkeepers do not have the luxury of discussing tactical gear.


GUTFELD: They have to protect their livelihoods. And we let them down. We might as well have just driven a bunch of trucks to help the looters take their stuff. You know, because we just said it was OK.

BOLLING: K.G., before we move on to President Obama's commentary, very quickly the cops. We haven't heard the cop's side of the story. We haven't heard the hospital reports from the police. We haven't seen any of the forensics from the cop's side of the story. What are they waiting for?

GUILFOYLE: They're trying to protect the investigation, the integrity of it, and make sure they have access to all the information which is ongoing, right? Because there could be other shop owners that come forward. There could be other video -- I've had stuff come in to an investigation two months in where all of a sudden the guy from the 7-Eleven says oh, actually I've got a tape that shows that angle or shows that intersection.

Now, you have some of the audio recordings showing other witness statement. Look, the cops didn't handle this right from the beginning but nevertheless they have a right to protect themselves, to defend themselves. They should not be held solely responsible on another hand because of the people, the looters, other people coming in to seek opportunity in a time of turmoil and grief.

So, let's let them get this together. Pull all the reports together, because guess someone else who deserves the benefit of the doubt, too, until we have all the facts is the officer involved.

BECKEL: Dana, let me say one thing about the -- when the night that Brown, there was a calm night, the one place I disagree is that there were a lot of people who took that as a signal from Chicago, to head on down there because they didn't want a calm night. So what they call themselves, revolution two, whatever they call it, went down there and being able to stir things up.

So, the last thing the people who want to stir things up want to see is a calm night, one. And two, I think that the media down there so far, the idea of taking a camera down, and walking up to the steps of this cop's house, is just to me just irresponsible.


BOLLING: Did President Obama -- he came to D.C. He left his Martha's Vineyard two-week vacation, came back to D.C. to say -- comment on Iraq, which I didn't hear anything majorly new about that. And number two, to comment on this.


PERINO: Well, it is -- it still remains a mystery as to the real reason that President Obama came back, because it was a week or so ago --

BOLLING: We don't know that yet?

PERINO: We don't know it yet. My prediction I'm holding onto it but it might be coming.

On Iraq, what president said that was new was that the Mosul -- the dam in Mosul has been secured. Hopefully, that is true and will continue to be true.

And the only real news that he broke on the Michael Brown situation in Ferguson is that he is asked Attorney General Eric Holder to travel down there. He will do so this Wednesday, and get a briefing, and that sends a signal from the White House that they're taking it seriously and they want a good investigation. Have to walk a line that Kimberly was suggesting which is that the police officers have a right to defend themselves and the community has a right to be defended.

BOLLING: Can I just follow up? So people were dying, the Yazidis were dying in the mount, 30,000, 50,000 were dying in the mountain. We were doing air strikes and he delivered that from Martha's Vineyard. But these two things --

PERINO: Again, the president of the United States, the White House press office, announced well over -- well before the Ferguson situation took place, and the developments in Iraq, that the president would be coming back for one day to meet with Vice President Biden.

It still remains a mystery. Maybe he just wanted to come home from a day. Get away from the vineyard -- I mean, as one would.


GUILFOYLE: As one would.

PERINO: Come back to the White House for a meeting.


BECKEL: What he said was, which is when you finally had people up against these big bad boys, they fled.

PERINO: In Iraq.

BECKEL: And they got the dam back -- in Iraq.

PERINO: Right.

BECKEL: So, my point is when you finally put something up in front of these guys except the girl scouts, you're going to start to drive them away. And they've driven away out of two towns and off the dam.

GUTFELD: That's -- OK. That's the lesson in all of this is that --


GUTFELD: -- there are certain people, criminals, who only listen to force. Looters respond to slugs, not hugs.

GUILFOYLE: Thank you.

GUTFELD: Once the police got once the politicians got the police to stand back and let the looters run wild, there's only one recourse and it's an armed populace. That's where you're going to end up. I almost said at the end of the day.

But the fantasy of the gun-free zone is now a fantasy. If you can no longer rely on law enforcement or your own government, your federal government, to protect you, all you could do is buy a gun and end the gun- free zone.

PERINO: Or you could leave. Or as a business owner, you can say, you know what? I'm out of here.

GUILFOYLE: Like Detroit. Like Detroit.

BOLLING: Let's transition to a perfect sound byte -- President Obama weighing in on the militarization of police forces. Listen.


OBAMA: I think it's probably useful for us to review how the funding has gone. How local law enforcement has used grant dollars, to make sure that what they're -- what they're purchasing is stuff that they actually need. There is a big difference between our military and our local law enforcement and we don't want those lines blurred.


BOLLING: So, they're giving us about a minute and a half.

PERINO: So, I just want to say that they don't want lines blurred. I can agree with that.

What's interesting is just two months ago, House of Representatives had a vote on militarization of police and this type of grant-making and giving this equipment, and 372 yes votes. So, now, maybe everybody's going to rethink. But 372 members of Congress are on record saying they support it.

BECKEL: I thought in these things -- I'm sorry, go ahead.

GUTFELD: Go ahead.

BECKEL: I was just going to say that the governor of Missouri says he was appalled by the militarization of the police on the one hand, and then the next thing he did was call up the National Guard. So, I'm not sure I quite understand that although I think he was appalled by it as I was -- the militarization of the police then he calls out the militants.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God. They had to protect themselves.

BECKEL: They didn't.

GUTFELD: No, but you know -- I mean --

GUILFOYLE: Look what happened after they took that away. You had civilian shot, you had six officers injured. I'm just saying, once you're out there then you see the truth.

BECKEL: Give them tanks.

BOLLING: Wrap it up.

GUTFELD: Yes, I mean, if police are kept from policing, the message is abandon ship. And that's what's happening.

BOLLING: We're going to leave it right there.

Reverend Al Sharpton and the New Black Panthers are just some of the outspoken mouthpieces on the ground in Ferguson, Missouri. But are they posing any real solutions to the unrest or just fanning the claims of an already tense racial firestorm?

That debate when THE FIVE returns.


GUILFOYLE: Well, as Ferguson, Missouri, continues to smolder over the killing of an unarmed black teen -- have black leaders been doing more to stoke the fire than put it out? Listen to civil rights activist and current congressman, John Lewis, who warns discontent could spread.


REP. JOHN LEWIS (D), GEORGIA: Maybe Ferguson today, but tomorrow it could be some place else. We cannot have peace and order without justice.


GUILFOYLE: Al Sharpton, meanwhile, takes direct aim as what he claims to be a rigged system.


AL SHARPTON, MSNBC HOST: All of my life, I've never seen nothing more despicable than while this mother and this father and their families haven't even had the time to bury their son the police chief would release a tape trying to disparage his name. How can the young folk of the city believe in a system that would try to spit on the name and character of a young man who hasn't been buried? We are not looters, we are liberators. We are not burners, we're builders.


GUILFOYLE: Doesn't look like that from here.

And, finally, a Black Panther-led group was far less subtle, as they said, what they are calling for.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's his name?

CROWD: Darren Wilson!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What is his name?

CROWD: Darren Wilson!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's his name?

CROWD: Darren Wilson!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's his name?

CROWD: Darren Wilson!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who do we want?

CROWD: Darren Wilson!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do we want him?

CROWD: Dead!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who do we want him?

CROWD: Darren Wilson!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do we want him?

CROWD: Dead!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who do we want him?

CROWD: Darren Wilson!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do we want him?

CROWD: Indicted!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Who do we want him?

CROWD: Darren Wilson!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How do we want him?

CROWD: Indicted.


GUILFOYLE: That ought to offend every single person on the planet basically calling for the death of an officer, whatever happened to someone said constitutional rights, the right to be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt you don't see them serving justice or giving this officer a chance.

David, you're shaking your head.

GUTFELD: Well, I want to ignore whether the New Black Panthers because they're not worthy of the time on any network.

Let's go to Sharpton who is a waste of space, basically saying this is the worst thing he's ever seen. Apparently, he forgot about Tawana Brawley, the rape hoax that he helped, or the Freddy's Fashion Mart, which was tragedy that killed more than a handful of people that maybe had something to do with Al Sharpton -- Google Freddy's Fashion Mart.

Let's talk about John Lewis. John Lewis says it's a disgrace, the racial disparity between the community and the police. It's a disgrace but it's not the police's fault. You have to look at the facts.

What is necessary to occur to become a police officer? You have to be -- have a desire to be a cop, which isn't there. You cannot have a criminal history which is an issue. You need a minimum education.

So, these are all the things that end up killing the racial narrative that is being pushed right now that doesn't help anything but creates more divisiveness. If you just look at the facts -- cops would love to have more black applicants. They would die for it and they're not getting it.


BOLLING: Well, look, if there's -- if the "B" block is all about what's really going on in Ferguson, it's on one hand you have an investigation that's going on. We don't have any answers.

So, what's the next thing the other thing that's going on? We have a racial, I don't know, a racial divide that's widening perpetrated by Al Sharpton and New Black Panther Party. Jesse Jackson and anyone else who wants to make a name for themselves by saying look there's a problem here. There's a racial divide in Ferguson.

If the divide is the fact that there are three black cops out of 53 in a town that has a predominantly black population. So be it. That doesn't mean what officer --


BOLLING: -- Wilson did was illegal. Or wrong.

GUILFOYLE: Obviously.

BOLLING: We still haven't found out their side of the story.

So, before -- before they start calling for the death of Officer Wilson, they should find out what the facts are. Maybe he was defending himself. Listen, I'm --

GUILFOYLE: He has a right, by the way, to use force whether the teen is armed or not.


BECKEL: That isn't so.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, it is so, Bob. Yes, it is.

BOLLING: For President Obama to come on television and say, we need to calm what's going on there. How about he says that? How about he says, hey, New Black Panther Party, cut the crap? How about Reverend Al Sharpton, cut the crap? Jesse Jackson cut the crap.

Get out of there. We'll handle this. Eric Holder will handle this.

GUILFOYLE: They're not helping the matter, they're making it far worse.

BECKEL: John Lewis doesn't have to make his name. He was the single bravest man in the civil rights movement and went to the hospital 68 times.

BOLLING: I didn't mention John Lewis, did I?

BECKEL: Well, no, you didn't.

GUILFOYLE: You did not.

BECKEL: John Lewis has every right in the world to express himself and say what is true and that is that there may be other situations like this. Let us be careful about this.

Now, I couldn't agree more about Sharpton. He made no sense except for the one thing. The one thing and Bill O'Reilly said this on the special which a few of us were here for on Friday night and that is -- well, I said, Bill, why do you think they released the tape the same day they released the name of the cop? He said probably to cover up for the cop.

And that's right. He was right about that. Releasing that tape was ridiculous, disgraceful, disgusting --

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

BECKEL: He was the police chief.

GUILFOYLE: It's also fact surrounding the circumstances of that --

BECKEL: You selectively would like to pick out a fact like that.

GUTFELD: This is the issue here.

GUILFOYLE: That's what I did for a living, Bob. I know a bit about it.

GUTFELD: You talk about toxicology and when you talk about the video, people want the facts, unless it's the facts that don't fit their story.


GUTFELD: Then the facts don't matter.

BECKEL: What is the fact about that video?

GUTFELD: Now, we knew what was happening before and we also know the mind-set of Mr. Brown --

GUILFOYLE: Of the officer, too.

GUTFELD: Maybe the officer didn't know anything about Mr. Brown, but Mr. Brown didn't know that. He didn't know that the cop didn't know. And that plays a role in his behavior.

And then if you look at the toxicology report that also plays a factor. How? I have no idea. I'm not a doctor.

BOLLING: I know we -- Dana, just one thing -- Bob, you want facts. Most of this stuff, most of this strike started with people holding up their hands in the streets saying, he was executed.

GUILFOYLE: Hands up, yes.

BOLLING: His hands were up when he was shot and we still have --

BECKEL: How do you know he wasn't? We don't know.


GUILFOYLE: Oh my gosh. And the officer was treated at the hospital for facial injures, as well. Oh, my gosh! Come on!

Why do you want everybody to be a bad guy. Why do you want him --

BECKEL: Have you ever met a bad cop in your life?

GUILFOYLE: Why don't you want everything to be racist?

BECKEL: Who said racist? Have you ever met a bad cop in your life?

GUILFOYLE: Oh, come on. That's such a ridiculous question. The bottom line is: don't assume that they're all bad.

BECKEL: I did not assume that that all.

GUILFOYLE: -- racial divide.

BECKEL: I also don't assume -- and I assume there's the fact about him having gun holes in his body is a fact that should be considered. What's not a fact that should be considered is he was trying to lift some cigarettes out of a store.



PERINO: I'm OK, I'll catch up in the "C" block.

GUILFOYLE: I like to hear Dana.

PERIN: I am going to -- I'll comment later on.

GUILFOYLE: In the Greg-alogue.

GUTFELD: And you can't just back out of a segment.

PERINO: I think the ratcheting up of the rhetoric is absolutely unhelpful and Al Sharpton has passed his sell-by date. As soon as everybody smells the rottenness of what he is saying, the better off we'll be. But right now, we're not at that place.

President Obama is trying to fill a gap. And he's trying to be -- I think he's trying to walk a line that's very fine. I don't know if he exactly did it. But it didn't seem like he fell off, OK? So, he's got the safety net is Eric Holder going in there on Wednesday, and hopefully tonight, everything can calm down. And then we can start to solve the problem.

But until we actually have more facts, and all of the facts, then a lot of this speculation and the ratcheting up in the community is completely unhelpful.

How's that?

GUILFOYLE: I am so glad that I insisted.

Coming up: while the media spot light has been shining brightly on Ferguson, Missouri, bloodshed in Chicago and New York city has not drawn a similar response. Greg breaks down the media's agenda, next.


GUTFELD: What do you call six dead and 25 wounded? A weekend in Chicago.

Such crime is so mundane, it's become background music for bad neighborhoods. So why doesn't the media approach this chaos with the same fervor as they do with Ferguson? Repetitive violence doesn't excite because it's not crystallized in to one stark act. It doesn't produce the imagery that Pulitzer protein that builds portfolios and careers.

Also, a reporter only needs to hoof it to Ferguson for a week. You want to tackle bigger violence, that's full time, the incidents are too frequent and the cops are too sympathetic and that's pretty boring.

We've been down this road before because the road never changes. Ferguson, Trayvon and even Newton -- these are media musts because they fit a greater story line, one that often emits facts that don't fit. The media believes such stories carry a bigger social impact, unlike the horrors that kill more innocents daily.

And so, their lopsided coverage is actually self-fulfilling, making the story bigger and expanding the suffering. Politicians retreat in response to the media's gaze, acting out of concern for the world view, but not for the shopkeeper. That's why you have riots and no riot police.

With mundane death, you can't raise money off it, you can't raise your profile off it and you can't raise any hell. But with Ferguson, you could do all that. Facts be damned.

So, Dana, certain types of violence are accepted just because they're common. Or is it because it's just not exciting?

PERINO: I think when something like this -- when something happens every day or every weekend, like you mentioned Chicago, then it does become a little bit routine and it moves to the back pages because there's nothing different, there's nothing new.

Michael Brown being shot in Ferguson was different. An unarmed black teenager shot by a white police officer. That is different. Black on black violence, however, which we've talked about on the show, that gets less and less coverage and gets moved to the back pages.

GUTFELD: Yes. Eric, you know what drives me nuts if you have a lot of outsiders coming into a town like Ferguson. Then they will leave, and what's left behind are the shop owners, and the police -- the police officers left picking up the pieces.

BOLLING: Yes. And the street cleaners. Can I call CNN out right now? So this morning I'm watching CNN, and they have the Piaget Crenshaw, the first real eyewitness who's come on television. She said she watched the whole thing happen from her balcony only a few feet above the crime scene. She videotaped what happened after with the officer standing over the dead body. But she had said she witnessed the whole thing.

So she was asked a question what happened. She goes through what happened, which is very compelling. And it corroborates everything we've heard from other eyewitnesses, as well.

But then something happened. This -- I can't remember the name of the lady who does the morning show, didn't ask the follow-up question. She just took it as fact, didn't ask about hands up, didn't ask about who was charging, what was going on. She turned to an emotional interview: "I hear something in your voice. You tell us how you feel." After one question of what happened. Your first interview with the facts, and she turns to what's the emotion. CNN failed miserably this morning. That was the moment to find out.

I hope someone on FOX gets this woman and gets her in front of a camera and says, "What happened after that first -- you say he was shot, he turned, he was shot again. Tell us more about what that was all about?"

Unbelievable. Are they complicit?

GUTFELD: They want the interview. They want a narrative. They want their narrative to be pure.

Bob what do you think about the media reaction with different types of crimes? We've talked about this a lot.

BECKEL: Yes, we have. But I think, look, as Dana said, you have a white cop killing an unarmed black kid, which is not the situation in Chicago. Chicago has gone on for a long time. As I've said for a long time, it is a gang war over drugs.

These are two specific gangs. They've been after each other now for twelve, thirteen years, and a lot of people die. It's much, much different than what happened in Ferguson.

So should they go in to be talking about it? Should Sharpton and the rest of them do it? I don't know how you deal with gang-on-gang violence when you have that much drugs and that much money involved. But that's what Chicago is. It is a drug war.

GUTFELD: But it's a drug war everywhere, and it's -- and there are innocent bystanders, little girls shot.

BECKEL: That's true. That's exactly right.

GUTFELD: Kimberly...


GUTFELD: ... shootings, I guess shootings went up 10 percent in New York over last year.


GUTFELD: So this is something that is also not being covered as well as it should.

GUILFOYLE: No. I mean, the only time you hear news, really, that's relevant and important is when we talk about New York on this show. I mean, you don't -- you don't hear this stuff covered.

And in terms of the case in Ferguson, for me it just -- it bothers me so much that people are looking for race in this solely, that no matter what, if you've never even met an individual, you're just going to assume that they're a racist. Why is that? Why does it always have to be that the officer is a bad person, whoever is the shooter is the bad person? Why can't you just assess the facts, take them for what they are, make your decision instead of right away doing the rush to judgment? For people like al Sharpton.

BECKEL: Who said he was a racist? Who thinks he's a racist?

GUILFOYLE; I'm just saying Bob when I hear the things you're saying, you're...

GUTFELD: You did earlier...

GUILFOYLE: You just said it on the show.

GUTFELD: You said, "Aren't there bad cops?"

BECKEL: I didn't say about this cop. Now wait. Let's be clear about this. I never once said -- not once did I suggest in any way that this cop was a racist or the fact this was a racially motivated crime. I didn't say that. I said that you can't say all cops are good cops when you look at what's happened in other areas. There have been bad cops.

GUILFOYLE: But we're not saying that. What we're talking about is looking at the individual facts...

BECKEL: OK. But don't lay -- don't lay -- me call the guy a racist. I don't know who he is. He could be -- for all I know he could have been - - go down to your civil rights board every week.

GUILFOYLE: That's it. We don't know.

GUTFELD: On that note, directly ahead, Texas Governor Rick Perry gets support from liberals as he vows to fight his indictment for alleged abuse of power. Is he facing trumped-up charges? Details next on "The Five."



PERINO: So weird. This morning I was thinking that that song would be perfect for this block. Joshua and I are tracking today. That's good.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

PERINO: In Texas some Democrats may have lost their minds when they followed through on a threat to indict Texas Governor Rick Perry on trumped-up charges for abusing his veto power, in an indictment the "New Yorker" calls "unbelievably ridiculous." Former Clinton special counsel Lanny Davis says Democrats must denounce it, and former White House advisor David Axelroad -- Axelrod, excuse me, tweeted, "Unless he was demonstrably trying to scrap the ethics unit for other than his stated reasons, Perry indictment seems pretty sketchy."

Perry came out swinging on Saturday at the state capitol.


GOV. RICK PERRY (R), TEXAS: It is outrageous that some would use partisan political theatrics to rip away at the very fabric of our state's constitution.

I intend to fight against those who would erode our state's constitution and laws purely for political purposes. And I intend to win.


PERINO: Kimberly, I'm going to go to you first. I have a question. So that he basically threatened to veto funding for a state office unless the woman that ran it...

GUILFOYLE: Public Integrity.

PERINO: The Public Integrity -- she was a viciously partisan prosecutor. She was jailed for drunken driving.

GUILFOYLE: Point 2-3 blood alcohol, could kill a whole family in a car.

PERINO: So irresponsible behavior. The governor said, "We're not going to have any of that."

GUILFOYLE: Almost three times the legal...

PERINO: To come back and now he's in trouble for threatening the veto?

GUILFOYLE: He's in trouble for upholding the law and exercising his legal authority to do so.

You have to understand, this is the grand jury system there in that county that brought the charges against Tom DeLay that an appeals court 2-1 reversed. OK. So they're used to creating this kind of damage. But are they on sound legal footing? They also did the same thing with Kay Bailey.

So there's a pattern in practice here of politicizing the judicial process, in that particular county, actually, that should be investigated.

So Governor Perry has every right to defend himself, to make these statements and to use the law. He's the governor of the state, and let's see what ultimately goes to what a jury says about this.

PERINO: Governor Perry, Greg, in the 2012 presidential election during the primary, he embarrassed himself a little bit when he had that mess up in the debate.


PERINO: But he's been coming back a little bit. So do you think that the Democrats are trying to usurp...

GUTFELD: I don't know. It's good to see him come out swinging, and I think it was important.

She's a watchdog over political corruption, and yet she's publicly corrupt. There's no -- I mean that's like having a drug dealer running the DEA. You can't have that. So it makes perfect sense.

And by the way, I mean, it's good that we don't show the tape of it. Her tape is embarrassing. It's sad.

PERINO: It's good for her that we won't show it.

GUTFELD: Yes. It's good for her. But in the tape she's basically telling these people, "You are ruining my career. If you do this you are ruining my career." Well, she might -- she didn't consider that when she was prosecuting people. She didn't consider that she was ruining people's careers. So I don't think she -- I think what he -- this story is going to be gone in 24 hours.

GUILFOYLE: Remember she had the open bottle of vodka in her car, too. Charming.

PERINO: Shouldn't the Democrats have disagreed with Perry and said she should resign?

BECKEL: Absolutely not. I think Perry -- I'm real surprised at some of my fellow liberals I think are wusses in this.

Look, you went through -- I lived in Travis County for two years, and I tell you it is Democratic. That's true. But you all want to follow the law. The law was a grand jury was convened and found this guy had violated the law. He is one of the most partisan politicians in the country. He did violate the law. And this was...

GUILFOYLE: How do you know he violated the law?

BECKEL: Greg said she was corrupt. There's no such indication of corruption. You're suggesting something that happened on a drunk traffic charge that was last year. How does that make her bad?

GUILFOYLE: I'm trying to follow and connect your dots.


GUILFOYLE: It's hard.

BECKEL: You're saying that he decided he was going to withhold this money because he didn't like this woman.

GUILFOYLE: He was saying that he's going to withhold from that specific office...

BECKEL: Yes. Because of that woman.

PERINO: But Bob, she runs the Public Integrity office. I mean, have you seen the videotape of her behavior?

BECKEL: No, but there are a lot of politicians who have been drunk who run public integrity offices.

PERINO: OK, all right, now...

GUILFOYLE: That's a great defense.

GUTFELD: That's not a good defense, Bob.

BECKEL: This is the same Perry that had that racial...

Doesn't that warm your heart?


GUTFELD: Yes, that was...

BOLLING: Oh, there you go. Throw that in.

PERINO: Is there a pattern. Is there a pattern? Is there a pattern here, Eric, when you see that Chris Christie, Scott Walker, now Rick Perry. Any governor that seems to be doing fairly well in their state, they get attacked from the left?

BECKEL: You've got a big conspiracy going on here.

BOLLING: I'm not sure -- OK, I think, as Kimberly points out, this group in Texas has a tendency to do this -- Kay Bailey Hutchinson is the other one that comes to mind -- against Republicans.

Very quickly I think the issue is that the announced the reason for vetoing the budget. Rather than just vetoing the budget with a wink and a nod he had to go ahead and say it's because of this woman who was, you know, he felt was -- shouldn't be in the job. Had he just done it like every other politician in the world would do, he wouldn't be in any trouble. He wouldn't be indicted.

Did they really fingerprint him and get a mug shot of him? Is that...

PERINO: They're supposed to sometime this week.

BECKEL: I hope so.

BOLLING: A standing governor. I mean, come on.

PERINO: Actually, that's the whole thing...

BECKEL: Duly elected official.

PERINO: I think that's the whole reason for this is they want the picture of him on file.

GUILFOYLE: Of course they do.

BECKEL: That's a big conspiracy. We've got all these governors who have lined up, and we'll get them.

PERINO: And Rick Perry is going to be on "Hannity" tonight.

BECKEL: And Rick Perry is a jerk.

GUILFOYLE: You know what, Bob?

GUTFELD: Ad hominum attack, quite elegant.

GUILFOYLE: Why don't you try and be mature?

PERINO: All right. Ahead on "The Five," this is going to be very exciting. We're going to make history. No, not the stuff Bob does and, you know, this day in history stuff but actual history. An inside source with three-time Grammy award winner Brad Paisley sent me his brand-new country song. It's called "Country Nation." It's yet to be released, and you can only hear it here on "The Five" if I decide to play it in the next block as my "One More Thing."

But first, Bob will give you tips on spotting liars and whether or not I was lying about my big reveal. Which I'm not. So stay tuned.


BECKEL: Welcome back. Ever wonder how you can know if someone's lying? Well, besides a growing nose like Pinocchio, here are five ways, according to experts, you can sniff out a fibber.

No. 1, a person's demeanor or voice radically changes.

Two, a person avoids saying "I." I, I, I.

Three, a person has an answer for everything.

Four, a person fidgets, and -- what is that? -- fusses for no reason.

And five, a person proclaims his or her honesty repeatedly.

Greg, you buy into that?

GUTFELD: Yes. You know when -- you know you can tell someone's lying? When they go play golf right afterward.

BOLLING: And before.

GUTFELD: And before.

GUILFOYLE: My goodness.

BECKEL: All right. Dana, what do you think? You think that's -- that's accurate?

PERINO: Yes. I like -- I like -- remember when you said the body language expert on FOX News, and she could tell you if somebody was lying. I like watching that.

GUTFELD: yes. Turned out she was -- she was lying the whole time.

BOLLING: She was lying.

PERINO: Oh, really?


PERINO: She didn't know what she was talking about?

GUTFELD: She wasn't -- no.

PERINO: I believed that? Really?

BECKEL: This study says that people lie on average three times in ten minutes.

GUTFELD: I'm kidding.


BOLLING: The book says liberal lies three times.

BECKEL: No, it doesn't. Nope, nope it doesn't. No, no, that's -- that's an ad hominum attack.

GUILFOYLE: Is this a real segment?


BECKEL: Hey, kiss me.


BECKEL: Kiss the moon.

Hey, she says here a study conducted at the University of Massachusetts researcher Robert Feldman found 60 percent of people lie in a common conversation, people like about three times per ten minutes. What do you think?

GUILFOYLE: About what?

BECKEL: Do you think that's an accurate statement?

BOLLING: That's great. What are those hands behind my head? What is that?

GUILFOYLE: Fingers crossed.

BECKEL: Why does nobody want to respond to this? Does anybody find that...

PERINO: Because we're all worried you're going to think we're lying.

GUILFOYLE: I don't know. I mean, this is kind of lame. Because it says a person proclaims his honestly repeatedly. What are you supposed to say?

BECKEL: Kimberly, it's lame because I always get lame segments. So don't feel badly about it.

GUILFOYLE: No. I'm not talking about your block being lame...

BECKEL: So there you go.

GUILFOYLE: I'm saying -- I'm saying these factors, I think, are a little bit ridiculous, because the point is if somebody is telling you they didn't do something, I'd like them to say it. I don't care if they say it 100 times. If they say it emphatically, I'm going to look at how they say it, not the fact that they deny it, to say that they're lying.

BOLLING: Let's take it out. Can you take Bob's camera three? Is President Obama doing a good job?

BECKEL: Yes. I think so.

PERINO: Yes, see. He's...

BOLLING: You were fidgeting.

BECKEL: No, I wasn't.

PERINO: You know what? I think as an adult as you get older, there are less people that lie to you. Don't you think that's true?

GUTFELD: That's because they're all dying.

PERINO: I mean, I don't have -- I don't really think there's any...

BECKEL: I think that's true, because people can't remember what they -- what they say when you lie.

GUILFOYLE: How about you?

BECKEL: I can't remember. That's one reason I really don't lie that much, because I can't remember what I said.

GUILFOYLE: You can't remember what you said last block.

BECKEL: Sweetheart, you -- I know what you said. And I ain't going to forget it.


BECKEL: You got it coming, too.

Anyway, this is a typical Bob's liberal segment here. Thanks. We had a chance to cover Ferguson. We've had a chance to cover some big deals, but no, we'll get down to Bob and, like, Rick Perry. OK. One More Thing is up next.

GUILFOYLE: You better stay out of Texas.


BOLLING: Time for "One More Thing." We're going to start with Dana with some big news.

PERINO: OK. I'm very excited, because I've never really leaked anything before. I used to, like, try to prevent leaks in my old job, and now I get to leak a very special song from Brad Paisley, three-time Grammy award winner, one of my favorite country music singers.

He sent us this little new song. It's called "Country Nation." You're going to hear it here first.




PERINO: That was the first time I got to see it, too. Kimberly just said she's going to learn how to two step.

GUTFELD: These bands are so diverse.

BECKEL: What did you say about...

GUILFOYLE: I had to do the Puerto Rican...

BECKEL: ... a song that...

PERINO: Greg is not the biggest country music fan, but he really likes that song.

BECKEL: But what did you say about -- he was doing a song and there were two of us from the bands...


BOLLING: Can I point something out, Brad Paisley? One of the -- White House correspondents, a big fan of "The Five," big fan of Dana Perino, as well.

PERINO: And also his dad is a big fan of "The Five," as well. I think it's a great song. It's about American culture and patriotism, and we thank you so much. We're honored.

BOLLING: K.G. -- Cage, you're up.

GUILFOYLE: OK. "La Bamba" or not? I've got a dancing "One More Thing" with Governor Christie busting a move with Jamie Foxx. You knew he liked to dance, right?

GUTFELD: That's horrifying.

GUILFOYLE: This is at the Apollo in the Hamptons, benefit Sunday night. Saturday night. Oh, my gosh.

BOLLING: That's what happens when you lose 120 pounds, I guess. He's showing off.

GUILFOYLE: It's not bad.

GUTFELD: It's not good.

PERINO: He can do better.

GUTFELD: That should never be seen.

PERINO: Can you do better?

GUTFELD: Oh, yes. But I never would.

GUILFOYLE: Not John Travolta-esque.

BOLLING: All right. Have you seen enough of him yet?


Bobby, you're up.

BECKEL: Good. That's good. Great.

There's two polls out that should make members of both parties very, very worried. Because they are at an all-time high for these poll outfits. Gallup polled "Do most members of Congress deserve to be reelected?" They've asked this for 25 years, and this is the highest it's ever been. No, 74 percent. Yes, 19 percent. That bodes not well for Democrats in the Senate, nor Republicans in the House of Representatives.

In the "Post"/ABC of Congressman job approval. Here's one that I find most amazing. I've been in politics a long time. Fifty-one percent of the people think that their own representative should not be re-elected. Now, usually you'll find that people will say a lot of people shouldn't be re- elected, but I love my own member of Congress.


BECKEL: Something that we always depended on when we were doing campaigns. This time around, 51 percent saying their own representative does not deserve re-election. That is stunning to me, and if it's accurate, and I think it probably is, there's going to be some surprises come November.

PERINO: Fine. That will make it fun.

GUILFOYLE: Do you have the -- what is it, the fortune teller thing, Bob's prediction? Remember that?

BECKEL: I'll do that. I'll do that.

GUILFOYLE: That was kind of cool. Bring it back, people.

GUTFELD: Well, I was going to leak something, but then I went to the doctor. All right. I haven't had a banned phrase in about two days. Let's ban this phrase.

GUILFOYLE: What do you mean?

GUTFELD: "I can't thank you enough." Yes, you can. Just say, "Thank you." Or if you can't thank you me enough, buy me a gift.


GUTFELD: If you can't thank me enough, go to Tiffany's and get me a nice thing.

PERINO: Or some wine.

GUTFELD: Or some wine, perhaps. Wine is always a good gift.

GUILFOYLE: It really is.

GUTFELD: I got a gift of wine yesterday. But pens, I lose. I got a gift of wine yesterday and the bag broke. It shattered all over the lobby of my apartment. And I was slightly inebriated, and I was on my hands and knees, cleaning up -- cleaning it up.

GUILFOYLE: And you got shards of glass.

GUTFELD: I had shards of glass and children walking around me.

PERINO: Is there a video?

GUTFELD: No, I'm a pathetic individual.

GUILFOYLE: Well, this is a problem. Give it in a cushioned wine bag when you give it to Greg.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly.

BOLLING: All right. Very quickly, my "One More Thing." I'm hosting "The O'Reilly Factor" tonight, 8 p.m. We're going to be live in Ferguson. We're going to take a look in there. Bill O'Reilly is...

BECKEL: Is he in Ferguson?

BECKEL: No, but you have trouble on the ground in Ferguson. Bill O'Reilly is going to call into his own show. It's going to be very interesting, and he's going to weigh in on all the events.

And also -- can we take camera two for a second? -- Paul Ryan wrote a brand-new book. This is Dana's book. I couldn't get my hands on the book. Dana loaned it to me for the weekend. It's a fantastic read.

GUILFOYLE: ... forward.

BOLLING: I love your notes. We -- we have similar ideas of what's important.

BECKEL: Was that -- so this is from the publisher, it's free to you. So this one she gives me.

PERINO: No, it was better than the ones I usually give you. It's actually very good. I thought it was great. It was a wonderful personal story.

BOLLING: Bob Beckel -- hold on. Breaking news, Bob Beckel is trending on Twitter.

PERINO: For what? What did he do?

BOLLING: Oh, my God. Who knows?

GUILFOYLE: Being crazy.

BOLLING: All right. We're going to have to leave it right there.

PERINO: Congratulations, Bob. You're trending.

GUILFOYLE: You must have really upset...


BECKEL: ... about that.

BOLLING: Trending on Twitter.


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