This is a rush transcript from "The Five," May 28, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Eric Bolling, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Dana Perino, and Jesse Watters.
It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is The Five.
(MUSIC)
BOLLING: We have a very jam-packed show for you tonight. The latest on the CIA officer outed by the White House. We have Ed Snowden speaks publicly from Russia. And some big breaking developments in the V.A. scandal. We'll get to all that in just a minute.
But, first, President Obama took the opportunity to redefine his foreign policy agenda today at his commencement address to our graduating officers at West Point. It was a bizarre speech. The president left many of us scratching our heads and some graduating officer tilting their caps I'm sure.
Here the commander-in-chief telling our new military officers who, by the way, have offered their lives to the service to our country, that the military just isn't that important.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: America must always lead on the world stage. But U.S. military stage cannot be the only or even primary component of our leadership in every instance. Just because we have the best hammer does not mean that every problem is a nail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Wow.
And he didn't stop there. Get this -- he thinks American exceptionalism is making sure that terrorists at Gitmo get treated properly.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OBAMA: I believe in American exceptionalism with every fiber of our being. But what makes us exceptional is not our ability to flout international norms and the rule of law. It is our willingness to affirm them through our actions.
(APPLAUSE)
And that's why I will continue to push to close Gitmo, because American values and legal traditions do not permit the indefinite detention of people beyond our borders.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Aside from that smattering of clapping.
Let's bring it around. Bob is about to explode. But go ahead, K.G., first thoughts on not really needing the military.
KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Did he have to say it West Point? With the whole international committee watching, here's the president addressing some of the nation's brightest and bravest who have vowed to serve our country, to take up arms if need be to defend our freedom and liberty, and that was just such a confusing, disappointing message.
But in my opinion, you know, look, he went there, he gave the speech, but I don't think that was the right kind of speech to give -- one, for the country or for the graduates.
BOLLING: Bobby, inconsistent foreign policy to say the least. This was supposed to redefine, to kind of focus it. For me, it's -- he's kind of spread it all over the place.
BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Your interpretation of what he said is typical right wing jargon. He did not say the military was not important. What he did say and reflects by the views of American people who are weary of our going into every war there is to have around the world, that we're going to have to pull back and not make the United States the only sole policeman of the world.
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: Because he has more guts than you do to do something like that.
BOLLING: I will tell you every one of those kids, those graduating officers has more guts than me, but I'm not going to say that president standing there has more guts than me. There's no way you can say that.
These kids have offered their lives in the service of their country --
BECKEL: Yes.
BOLLING: -- he tells them we may not be going into that direction going forward.
BECKEL: That's not what he said.
BOLLING: Well, if you listen to the whole speech, that's kind of what he's alluding to and he goes into the other areas that he wanted to get into.
BECKEL: Are you prepared to send American military forces to every --
BOLLING: No.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: Nobody is saying that.
BOLLING: That's such a false argument. If you are not prepared -- if you are not all pull out of every single conflict, then you are all for war in every single conflict. That's not the case.
BECKEL: Where would you suggest -- yes, go ahead.
BOLLING: Let's bring it around. I'm sorry.
GUILFOYLE: Dana.
BOLLING: Go ahead, Dana.
DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Well, I think on the applause part in that sound bite, it does sound very bad to our ear and I think I wouldn't have wanted that to happen. Usually at a speech like that, the cadets are told not to interrupt the speed with any applause and you typically don't hear any. So, that was -- it's unfortunate that that happened to the president because I think it sounds worse.
But I do think that it's an accurate representation of what a lot of people felt about the speech, and just reading across the board, from the left to the right, people are disappointed with the speech because it was timid, it was confusing. Never forget has turned into never mind.
And yesterday when the president announced the Afghanistan pull-out in 2015, I covered -- I followed this stuff fairly closely. We do here on The Five, I have to remind myself, I thought he had already announced that three times already. I thought -- I didn't understand how that was new.
I also don't like the loose language -- there was interventionalist, internationalist, isolationist. And I just prefer a presidential speech, if it's going to redefine foreign policy or attempt to grab my attention and lead me somewhere, for it to be a lot more clear what he was trying to attempt. And I'll just mention one other thing -- he has a line in here that says we must not create more enemies than we take off the battlefield.
Now, I guess I could kind of think about how he might interpret that but to me, it goes back to this ideological war that we aren't creating enemies. The enemy hates us. We didn't ask for the wars, especially when it comes to Islamic war.
GUILFOYLE: We weren't the antagonists.
PERINO: We are not and we are the ones that are victims of it and you have to choose whether or not you are going to fight it first. There are lots of ways to do that. Not just sending in troops, which I think was a false argument on his behalf.
BOLLING: Jesse, stay on this topic for one second -- 1,064 graduates right there. Maybe he had maybe five or six claps, as Dana points out -- unfortunate for the president. Is that the place to be redefining your foreign policy, especially if you're going to redefine it that way?
JESSE WATTERS, CO-HOST: Well, I don't think it was well-received obviously by the smattering of applause, you can see. I think he was forced into making the speech. He didn't want to talk about this. He never wants to talk about Afghanistan.
He said a few really stunning things. First of all, it was incredibly egotistical speech. It was all about him, OK? It was basically him responding to critics of his foreign policy. And when you have to explain that you actually do believe in American exceptionalism, you probably don't that much.
He talked a lot about Bush. Basically, he said the previous administration was naive, rushed to war, no coalition -- I'm tired of that. OK? It's ridiculous, he's still talking about it.
This is what else he said. Ukraine and Iran was a success. He painted those as success stories. He compared himself to Dwight Eisenhower, OK? He talks about creating partnerships of allies as a cornerstone of his foreign policy. Saudis, Israel, Germany, Russia, I don't think the relationships there are great.
He wants U.N. peacekeepers. He bashed Republicans for climate change denial. I mean, is that the place to do that? No.
GUILFOYLE: That sounds like a very immature speech, doesn't it, when you just tick off all the elements right there. You think about, well, this is a president who is coming off sounding kind of narcissistic. How many times can we just tout, Osama bin Laden is dead. I mean, come on, we have to look right now at the world view. What are people saying, thinking about the United States of America and the things that he's listing as accomplishments, quite frankly, I think you are puffing because they're not.
BECKEL: You know something, we have been in Afghanistan now for over 11 years. How much longer are we going to have to debate this issue? We should have been out of there a couple of years ago --
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: We've been in Iraq, the war in Iraq supposedly to make it work and it's falling apart.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: No, it's fallen apart because of Obama's actions.
BECKEL: That is ridiculous.
BOLLING: When President Obama took over, how many boots on the ground in Afghanistan did we have?
BECKEL: He actually got it up higher.
BOLLING: Yes. He increased it by about 90,000. It's around 30,000. It got up to 120,000. Did do you know how many casualties are attributed under President Obama's watch in Afghanistan? About 75 percent of all the casualties in the war.
BECKEL: Why is that a surprise?
BOLLING: But you are pinning this war on a prior administration.
BECKEL: I'm not pinning it on the prior administration. I said we shouldn't have gone into Afghanistan to begin with because that's where the whole plot was developed. We didn't have to stay there that long. How long --
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: We still have troops in Korea. We still have troops in Germany. You know, we still have troops in Japan.
BECKEL: By treaty. By treaty. By treaty.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: OK. So, sign a status of forces agreement with them.
BECKEL: They wouldn't sign it. They won't sign it.
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: Those places you're talking about are by treaty, and we abide by our treaty.
GUILFOYLE: But how disrespectful to the troops that have served and died, by just saying, oh, we're weary, we're going to pull out. What is that?
BECKEL: That's what the American people want.
GUILFOYLE: The American people are not quitters.
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: Don't disrespect their service, Bob. Finish the job and do it right.
BECKEL: What if it goes about 20 more years?
BOLLING: Guys, do me a favor. We'll continue this exact topic. Listen to General Michael Hayden put things into perspective.
BECKEL: God.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEN. MICHAEL HAYDEN, FORMER CIA DIRECTOR: Let me parse out what the president just said. Before I leave office, I'm going to make Afghanistan look like Iraq.
You know, going to zero in Iraq, did not lead to a happy outcome and now he's committed to doing the same thing in Afghanistan. I think it's fairly dangerous.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: If you paid attention to that sound bite, General Hayden is saying we're going to end up with another Iraq if we do what President Obama is suggesting.
BECKEL: What was General Hayden suggesting, we stay in Iraq for 20 more years?
BOLLING: Finish the job.
BECKEL: Finish the job? They finished the job supposedly. We shouldn't have been in there in the first place, but we were. And now what's happened? The thing is fallen apart?
WATTERS: No, it's fallen apart because we don't have any soldiers on the ground. No one is saying you want a combat mission in Iraq.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: No one is saying you want a combat mission in Iraq. You leave 10,000, you leave 20,000 troops to have leverage against Iran, to interrupt flows of arms to Syria, to prevent a civil war there, to give confidence to the Maliki government, to make sure that the factions don't shoot each other because all the blood and sacrifice that our guys wasted there is not for nothing. So, Fallujah doesn't go to al Qaeda.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: Bob, let me bring Dana in here.
There are generals across the spectrum of news programs today saying that's what's going on in Iraq is that al Qaeda has reentered Iraq, has actually taken over some big cities.
BECKEL: Of course, they did. As soon as we've gone to war, they made (ph) it in Iraq.
BOLLING: John McCain said the exact same thing. He's pushing back on President Obama's real strong push to get out of Afghanistan this quickly.
PERINO: So the violence in Iraq is back to 2008 levels. So, 2008 was following the surge, immediately that's when the levels were starting to come down. That has changed.
And now, the Islamic state of Iraq and Syria back in control of the major parts of Anbar province which is where the big fighting was, which is where we had once sort of the hearts and minds of the people there.
In addition to that, in the situation, al Qaeda affiliates have spread all over, including to Mali, Libya, Nigeria, Somalia, Yemen, and above all Syria, which U.S. intelligence officials are warning is now more dangerous now than Afghanistan was before 9/11.
BOLLING: K.G. --
PERINO: So, that is part of the president's legacy that -- maybe he will defend it, but those are the facts.
BOLLING: He defended it today. In the speech, he talked about winning the war on terror.
GUILFOYLE: Well, this is the problem. I just don't think he understands -- honestly, I really don't think he has a grasp on what it means to have a cohesive, coherent, foreign policy or how to combat the war on terror. We cannot go around to our enemies, let me hug you and let me drone you. It won't hurt that much. That's my point.
BECKEL: That's treasonous what you just said.
GUILFOYLE: No, it actually is accurate.
BECKEL: That is the way you treat the president of the United States is abysmal and disgusting.
GUILFOYLE: Oh my gosh! He loves his country.
BOLLING: So, you, Bob --
BECKEL: He is the commander in chief. What I'm saying is that he inherited a war in Iraq which made Iran the power it is in the Middle East. It would have made al Qaeda find a place to go. Iraq has bred more trouble since that war started.
GUILFOYLE: Guess what? Al Qaeda is everywhere now, Bob.
BECKEL: Oh, I see, why do you think they are? Why do you think they are?
GUILFOYLE: Talk to your buddy.
WATTERS: It's Bush's fault.
BECKEL: I'm not saying it's Bush's fault.
WATTERS: You just did.
BECKEL: No, I didn't. I disagree, at the beginning the war in Iraq - -
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: Bob, you and I see eye to eye a lot of things when it comes to war, whether we should get involved in Syria. We agree we both should. Russia, we both agree. However, finishing a job we started, there is a lot to be said --
BECKEL: How long?
BOLLING: -- as long as it takes to make sure al Qaeda doesn't creep back in and put them back to where they were, before we spent $2 trillion.
BECKEL: So, you want to put a military base in the Anbar province? Is that what you want to do?
PERINO: That's not. I don't think anybody is suggesting that.
BECKEL: What are you suggesting?
GUILFOYLE: No, but the bottom line is the military is the backbone of the leadership of this country and it is respected worldwide. And we should not cower behind it. It should be out in front in a show of force.
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: I'll tell you that the military was behind this thing in Iraq before Obama was elected president.
BOLLING: All right. All right.
GUILFOYLE: And?
BECKEL: And he stuck with the date. The military themselves came up with.
BOLLING: Bob --
GUILFOYLE: You know what, Bob? You have to be able to pivot on the battlefield as well. It's called grow up.
BOLLING: We need to pivot right now. Let's pivot to another Obama disgrace.
The V.A. office of inspector general's interim report found that the Phoenix wait times were 155 days versus the 24 claimed by the V.A. officials there. Eric Shinseki, Bob, has not come out and said, look, he appreciates the independent observation and put some people on administrative leave. Is that enough?
BECKEL: No, it's not enough. I mean, this is not a complicated situation. I don't know why they need a long investigation. Somebody sent this list in. Somebody in the White House didn't check it thoroughly enough and the thing went out.
And particularly, it went out with the name of the station chief for the CIA. I mean, how anybody can let that go through? I don't know.
BOLLING: We're on the V.A.
Dana, let's talk about this. Tonight, there is going to -- House Veterans Affairs Committee is going to meet and I think they are going to probably make some recommendations and you expect them to see -- call for Shinseki --
GUILFOYLE: As the story has unfolded, you had an inspector general report that came out. And today, Senator John McCain, whose -- the facility in Arizona, his home state is where the I.G. report was targeting, Senator McCain took an unusual step today and actually called for Shinseki himself to step down and that if he's not willing to step down, that the president actually asks for the resignation and make sure that he's no longer there because of the accountability need.
In addition to that, there was a request from the -- to the Department of Justice for there to be a criminal investigation because it does -- there is an accusation that some documents, government documents were altered in order to prevent anyone finding out about this atrocious behavior at the V.A.
WATTERS: I think the bottom line here, in what the report actually says is that union workers in the V.A. were letting vets die for money. They were doing it for bonuses, Bob.
BECKEL: Union workers were letting them die.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: They were hiding -- these guys on a secret waiting list so they would get a bigger bonus.
BECKEL: Union workers were doing that so they would die --
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: Government workers did that, and they died because of it. That's a fact and that's what the --
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: No, that's not what you said. You said union workers were responsible --
WATTERS: Yes, these government employees, they are unions.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: Why? Are you going to deny that? That's a fact.
BECKEL: That's just ridiculous.
WATTERS: That's a fact. And here's what else they said --
BECKEL: I see, if they weren't union members, they wouldn't have died.
WATTERS: No, no, I'm just being an accurate reporter on this, Bob.
(CROSSTALK)
WATTERS: Let me finish.
BECKEL: Yes, go ahead.
WATTERS: Shinseki is out by June because Obama can't escape. This is a massive scandal. And now, you have Democrats, the first Senate Democrat now came out today. I think it was Mark Udall in Colorado who's up for reelection, he said, get him out of here. It's time to go.
BECKEL: I agree with that, by the way.
GUILFOYLE: You agree, Bob, this is an inevitability, the president needs to be strong on this. I think there's criticism that he doesn't take down people that have done a poor job.
In this case, I mean, a general should know he is in the command. It begins and ends with him. I think that is the honorable thing to do.
BECKEL: I agree that Shinseki should go. I think it's amazing to me that McCain, whose state this was in, who talks to veterans all the time did not know about this, but nonetheless --
PERINO: He also claims that he was lied to because he says he's asked about these accusations before and that's where the question of the documents being altered is coming from.
BECKEL: And the idea of suggesting this is union workers is absolutely insane, ridiculous, and disgusting.
BOLLING: Something I brought up last week that 80 percent of the V.A. is unionized.
BECKEL: That's disgusting.
BOLLING: But whether or not they were dying because of wait lists --
BECKEL: That's what Jesse said.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: I will tell you one thing -- hold on, let me do this -- firing a union worker is substantially harder than firing someone who's not a nonunion worker.
BECKEL: It is not that hard to do it.
BOLLING: Substantially harder.
(CROSSTALK)
BOLLING: Next, the White House blew the cover of our top spy in Afghanistan which could end this person's career and put them in grave danger. Not surprisingly, the liberal media loves Psy "Gangnam Style." We'll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GUILFOYLE: Oh, Bob -- Bob, can you feel it? Another block coming your way.
All right. Well, the White House blew it over the week by blowing the cover of our top spy -- I'm sorry, Bob. It's the news. I have to tell it. I mean, top spy in Afghanistan.
Now, the name of the CIA station chief in Kabul was revealed to reporters traveling with the president on his surprise trip to the country. The White House claimed it was an accident, and the liberal media is OK with that answer, the same media that spent years obsessed with the outing of former CIA agent Valerie Plame in 2003.
Now, Brit Hume argues this incident is much, much worse.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRIT HUME, FOX NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: The comparisons to the Valerie Plame case, in which Karl Rove was remorselessly pursued by the special prosecutor, Scooter Libby who wasn't the person who leaked the name, was successfully prosecuted for what he said in the grand jury and so on.
This was a woman, even though her status was supposed to be classified, she was working at a desk in Virginia. This is a guy on the front lines in Afghanistan. It's a very different matter and I think it's fair to say much more serious. I think the public will recognize that and as I say, I think it feeds into this question about whether these are people who can run anything.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GUILFOYLE: I mean, that's a fair question, because that's what's on everybody's mind today is this administration of incompetence and bordering on recklessness to reveal information like that in such a careless fashion that's so incredibly sensitive. I mean, Dana, you were part obviously of the administration, Bush administration, when the whole --
PERINO: Yes. I was the spokesperson -- as a deputy, I was a spokesperson for Karl Rove. So, I lived that Valerie Plame case. Not like he did, though. There was some things that went through that I didn't even know until his book "Courage in Consequence" came out.
I understand it was a mistake by the administration and a big one and they already said there's going to be an investigation to figure out what they could do to prevent it from happening in the future. It is a massive mistake.
What's interesting to me is look at the hypocrisy of the media. They were nearly frothing at the mouth every day just hoping that Karl Rove would be frog-marched out of the White House. And on this one, also an inadvertent situation, they are silent. Well, I hope that if ever happens in the future -- regardless of which administration, they don't require young staffers in the White House have to take out loans to pay for lawyers so that they can go to grand jury and not be prosecuted for something they had nothing to do with.
GUILFOYLE: Bolling, making --
BOLLING: So, it's all about leadership. When you screw up, you fix it. You become accountable. You man up, in the words of John Kerry. And you fix things.
The problem is, they did announce today they are going to have an investigation on how this happened. But they have announced investigations for Fast and Furious, Benghazi, "A.P." and James Rosen, the NSA, the IRS, the IRS doing "Star Trek" videos, a billion dollars spent on healthcare.gov, investigate, investigate, investigate, but no heads roll.
PERINO: And once they say there's an investigation, then they say we can't talk about it anymore, until the media loses interest and then they don't have to be held accountable.
BOLLING: It's under investigation.
GUILFOYLE: Exactly. I'm letting Bob's heart take a couple of extra beats to recover.
WATTERS: It's an incredibly sloppy mistake, probably lazy, careless. It seems like they don't care about the safety of their people overseas. I don't know who they put in charge of doing this. If it's a 20-year-old, 30-year-old, they need to be fired immediately. They're going to take too long.
PERINO: But the NSC advisors supposed to sign off on it.
WATTERS: It's sign off all the way up to food chain. So, someone should be held accountably.
Remember what Obama as senator said about Valerie Plame, we have it right here. He called for an immediate congressional investigation, called it a "possible criminal act," quote-unquote. He said, it jeopardized the safety networks of our intelligence agencies.
So, listen, I don't know if this was intentional here, but this could be a crime according to his standards, and there needs to be an immediate congressional investigation, right, Bob?
GUILFOYLE: How do you see the two situations, Bob?
BECKEL: Let me say to suggest that the president of the United States does not care about the lives of our agents overseas is also bordering on treason.
Secondly, there is nothing -- you don't have to investigate it. It was a massive screw up, you can find out in one hour if you wanted to who is responsible for this, and they should be fired.
WATTERS: Right.
BECKEL: I could not agree with you more.
The difference between this and Valerie Plame, it was a much bigger guy than she was. But the difference was nobody ever admitted who leaked that thing and that was something --
PERINO: Hold on. Oh, no, no. Patrick Fitzgerald, the U.S. attorney, new from the beginning that it was Richard Armitage, at the State Department, who did it. And yet he continued to pursue Libby and Rove anyway, and at the end of it realized that they had nothing.
BECKEL: Why didn't he say that it was Armitage?
PERINO: He was into a grant jury investigation to look into whether Scooter Libby had perjured himself in the law. They knew from the beginning that it was Richard Armitage.
BECKEL: Well --
PERINO: And yet, they spent millions of taxpayer dollars investigating it.
BECKEL: I couldn't agree with you more. But also, to suggest Scooter Libby did break the law -- I mean, there's no question about that.
BOLLING: So, the answer to your own question, if they wanted to find out, they could find out in an hour.
BECKEL: They know now. Somebody sent this list to the White House. Somebody approved it. Yes.
BOLLING: I'm sure they do know but they probably knew who screwed up on every single one of these scandals.
GUILFOYLE: They're not going to tell.
BOLLING: It's not that they're not going to tell. They're not going to do anything about it. That's problem.
GUILFOYLE: Well, that, too. Nothing is going to happen here with all these investigation. No one cares, no one is paying attention to the "Star Trek" IRS video or, you know, Benghazi or any of these things, Fast and Furious. It's like --
PERINO: But don't worry because tomorrow, the White House is going to talk about concussions in the NFL and this will be very important for the nation.
BECKEL: Let's also not forget the Congress of the United States has held on these investigations over a hundred hearings, and their incompetence (INAUDIBLE) they can't find out the answer.
WATTERS: They're not getting any cooperation.
BECKEL: Oh, bull --
(CROSSTALK)
GUILFOYLE: When all the documents are redacted, and people are taking the Fifth.
BECKEL: Yes, yes, yes.
GUILFOYLE: It's very difficult.
PERINO: Let's go to the break. See if we can get more outrage in the C-block.
GUILFOYLE: OK, we're going to pump it up.
All right. Make sure to catch Hannity tonight at 10:00 p.m. Eastern. Sean has got an exclusive interview with Vice President Dick Cheney on the administration's outing of our station chief in Afghanistan. I'm telling you, you don't want to miss it.
Coming up, NSA leaker, Edward Snowden, resurfaces for his first U.S. television and the Obama administration was watching. John Kerry has some choice words for Snowden and you are going to hear them when The Five returns.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
PERINO: One of America's most wanted fugitives has reemerged to do his first U.S. television interview in Russia. NSA leaker Ed Snowden doesn't think he's a fugitive, thought. Secretary of State John Kerry thinks otherwise and is challenging him to man up and come back to the United States.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
EDWARD SNOWDEN, NSA LEAKER: The reality is, I never intended to end up in Russia.
The United States government decided to revoke my passport and entrap me in Moscow Airport. So when people ask, "Why are you in Russia?" I say please ask the State Department.
JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: For a supposedly smart guy, that's a pretty dumb answer. If Mr. Snowden wants to come back to the United States, today, we'll have him on a flight today. That's what a patriot would do. A patriot would not run away and look for refuge in Russia or Cuba or some other country. He's a fugitive from justice, which is why he's not being permitted to fly around the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: And then, in my opinion, in typical millennial fashion, because he was offended by being called for a low-level analyst than he was being called a traitor. This is what he had to say about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SNOWDEN: I worked for the Central Intelligence Agency under cover overseas. I've worked for the National Security Agency under cover overseas. And I've worked for the Defense Intelligence Agency as a lecturer at the joint counterintelligence training academy, where I developed sources and methods for keeping our information secure in the most hostile and dangerous environments around the world. So when they say I'm a low-level systems administrator, that I don't know what I'm talking about, I'd say it's somewhat misleading.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
PERINO: But Kimberly, Snowden has very high approval ratings in America. His approval ratings are actually higher than President Obama's.
GUILFOYLE: Really.
PERINO: Yes, it's true. I find him increasingly insufferable. Like pajama boy without a passport, living in Russia. If he were to come back to the United States and man up, as Kerry says, what kind of legal jeopardy is he in?
GUILFOYLE: Yes, I mean, look it, he's in legal jeopardy for sure. That's why he's not coming back.
But I like what Senator -- excuse me, Secretary of State John Kerry said, because I think he was very forceful. I think that he has the right idea. This is somebody who's not acting like a patriot. Come back to the United States if you feel so strongly about this and address the issues at hand.
I mean, this guy obviously has an overinflated sense of himself. He was definitely poked a little in the ribs by being called a low-level analyst. And he reminds strongly of the boy that I had to go -- forced to go to the prom with, super geek with the red and white barber shop...
PERINO: One of things, Eric, that he says is that he says that it's the State Department's fault, because they took his passport. But when he fled the United States, he fled to China, and then he was planning to go to Cuba, which are not necessarily the two places you would go if you were fleeing the United States in search of more freedom.
BOLLING: Well, they probably would, because they don't have extradition to the U.S. That's why he would...
PERINO: So he knew that he was in the wrong?
BOLLING: Well, he knew he was in trouble, because he broke the law. But can we also highlight that he broke the law for the greater good of -- of the country in mind? I know a lot of people at this table won't agree with me. Quite.
However, do we -- did we know that NSA was spying on literally every single American? Did we know that the NSA was bypassing the FISA court to go to take information that they didn't legally have on everyone and go store it in a -- in a facility in Utah to be used now, later, 20 years from now. Who knows what?
So John Kerry has a lot of gall to say he should man up and come back. John Kerry, why don't you man up, offer him a deal? Give -- listen, give him the maximum that he -- if he's convicted, he will get a maximum. So the minute he comes back here, there are people going to be calling for literally his life. They're going to call him a traitor, a spy. And ask for him to be...
PERINO: He's got a 56 percent approval rating. I mean...
BOLLING: The approval rating doesn't do squat for you in the court, Dana. You know that.
PERINO: I hope he does and he sits in his pajamas in the jail cell.
WATTERS: It is funny listening to John Kerry try to sound like George Bush. Kind of an aristocratic guy saying, "Man up," calling him dumb. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.
If anybody's going to call someone a traitor, I don't know if John Kerry needs to look in the mirror. I think he was around -- I think it was in the '60s -- in front of these hearings, accusing Vietnam soldiers, you know, war crimes...
PERINO: What do you think, Bob?
WATTERS: ... cutting off ears and fingers and stuff like that. Because he might need to look in the mirror.
But I think that something huge is coming down the pipeline. This guy is teaming up with Greenwald. They have this huge final chapter they're supposed to release in the coming months. They're going to publish individual names that the NSA has spied on. That's just going to open up a whole can of worms. You're going to see lawsuits. You're going to see the U.S. government. All hell's going to break loose. So I think that is going to be real, real scary.
PERINO: Let me get Bob in here, because this interview came right around Memorial Day where we've been celebrating all of our -- our heroes and then you have this interview on Memorial Day. I thought that was an interesting decision.
I also wonder, Bob, if you think that the president and the secretary of state, because maybe if he did train as a spy, they know his psychological weaknesses, so they know in order to get to him they call him something small and a low-level analyst.
BECKEL: He didn't train as a spy. He didn't work for the CIA. He didn't work for the NSA. He worked for a corporation that was -- that had contact with those agencies.
He was never put in a hostile environment. I used to think that this kid was actually doing some good by exposing the NSA. I'm not so sure about that -- of him anymore. I think he should come back here. Kerry is exactly right.
And by the way, the suggestion that Kerry is closed to a traitor, this is a war hero in the Vietnam War, which itself was a disastrous, disgraceful, treacherous war.
WATTERS: There's a lot of Vietnam vets that disagree with you, upset about that.
BECKEL: But this is -- this is a guy that went up the river and took a direct hit, and he got shot. You 'e suggesting he's a traitor?
WATTERS: No, I'm not questioning his courage. I'm saying...
BECKEL: Yes, you are. You're accusing him of traitor.
WATTERS: When he went out and accused his own comrades of cutting off ears and fingers...
BECKEL: You're reaching very far out here, brother. You're just -- suggesting that and suggesting that -- I mean, Jesse, I don't know what you took this morning, but it wasn't very good.
GUILFOYLE: He ate some Wheaties.
PERINO: We have to...
BOLLING: We've got to go, but I just want to know, Bob, are you jumping off this side of tracks here about the NSA at all?
BECKEL: No, I'm not jumping off this side of the tracks about the NSA at all.
BOLLING: There is a Fourth Amendment that says you have reasonable...
BECKEL: I agree with you.
BOLLING: ... probable cause...
BECKEL: I was saying that what he was saying was not accurate.
BOLLING: And you were in this camp for a long -- for many months.
BECKEL: And I just -- did I not say...
PERINO: You can learn things.
(CROSSTALK)
PERINO: I have to say that nobody has found illegal activity.
BECKEL: I did not change my opinion at all.
PERINO: I still maintain that. We have disagreement on that, and we're going to talk about it in the break.
BOLLING: Friendly. Friendly.
PERINO: Friendly disagreement, I think.
GUILFOYLE: Friendly fire.
PERINO: Fair to say. Academy Award winner Denzel Washington has some passionate advice for young actors on working hard and praying hard. You'll hear that when "The Five" returns.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BECKEL: Welcome to the block, the first block we're not bashing the president of the United States. Denzel Washington has won two Academy Awards, and he's got some words of wisdom for young actors today on setting goals and working hard.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DENZEL WASHINGTON, ACTOR: Dreams without goals remain dreams, just dreams. And ultimately fuel disappointments. Goals on the road to achievement, cannot be achieved without discipline and consistency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECKEL: Washington is one of Hollywood's most devout Christians. Here's his advice on staying close to God and focusing on what really matters in life.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WASHINGTON: I want that you all put your shoes way under the bed at night so that you got to get on your knees in the morning. And while you're down there, thank God for grace and mercy and understanding. We all fall short of the glory. We all got plenty. I've been blessed to make hundreds of millions of dollars in my life. I can't take it with me, and neither can you. So it's not how much you have. It's what you do with what you have. Share it. That's what counts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BECKEL: And that's -- that statement is worth this entire show almost. Dana, what do you think about what Denzel Washington said?
PERINO: One of the things that struck me is something that I aspire to do but I don't do, and that is the idea of setting a goal and actually writing it down and then checking in with yourself to make sure that you've done something.
I -- I always make lists. I make lists, but they're like "to do" lists. I never -- I should do the goal thing. I think that that's important and that you have to be prodded out of bed in the morning. Our natural state is to, unlike Sheryl Sandberg says, lean in rather than lean back. And I think that is not just in your career but in life.
I do think it's interesting that so many rich people, it seems like Arianna Huffington with her book out, are trying to tell people that money doesn't matter. It's different if you have hundreds of millions of dollars. Then you can say money doesn't matter.
But I do like his point about the goals, writing them down.
GUILFOYLE: Maybe you have to get the money.
BECKEL: (UNINTELLIGIBLE) Eric, you go to church every morning. I pray every morning, every night. I consider myself a devout Christian. I think the Christian message that he's giving here is the most important part of what he was talking about.
BOLLING: I love that part of it, too. And he makes a very good point. Yes, I go every day to St. Pat's. Yes, I light candles for everyone here and everyone who's watching.
PERINO: Even for Bob?
BOLLING: Even for Bob. Especially for Bob, because he takes a lot of -- you know he's outnumbered here, so to speak.
But he made a very good point. When you go to church and you pray, you don't always pray for something. Don't always pray, "Oh, please, God, let me get that job" or "let me get more money." Be thankful for some of the things you do have. That goes a long way. And also give, he said at the end of that, you have a lot. We've been blessed with a lot. We've all been blessed with a lot. It's really important.
GUILFOYLE: I think it's so important...
BECKEL: We have a very short period of time. Just a quick sentence to both of you. What do you think about...
WATTERS: I love that his father was a Pentecostal minister. You know, hard work, it's easy to get into Hollywood, you know, by sleeping around or by catching a lucky break. These guys need to work hard and study and hone their craft. And that's why he's successful. He's not pointing fingers, not asking for a handout. I thought it was extremely refreshing. I loved it.
GUILFOYLE: I think great message of prayer and gratitude. That don't make this life about yourself. It's about other people. And what can you do with the precious amount of time that you have here on this earth to change someone else's life and make a difference?
PERINO: Bob, will take me to see that play?
BECKEL: Say what?
PERINO: The play that he's in. Will you take me?
BECKEL: Yes, I sure will.
(CROSSTALK)
BECKEL: Coming up, actor and comedian Bill Murray crashes a bachelor party in South Carolina and offers some humorous advice for the soon-to-be groom and his pals. You'll see that next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
WATTERS: Bob's favorite song.
OK. So no bachelor party is complete without some solid advice for the groom, and guess who showed up to give it to one lucky guy in Charleston, South Carolina over the weekend? Here's actor Bill Murray after he crashed E.J. Rumpke's bash.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL MURRAY, ACTOR: Bachelor parties are not for the groom. They're for the unmarried.
Listen here. I'm going to give you all some advice, because it's too late for this one. Buy a plane ticket for the two of you to travel all around the world, and go to places that are hard to go to and hard to get out of. And when you come back to JFK, when you land in JFK and you're still in love with that person, get married. That's your day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
WATTERS: Not bad advice.
All right, Bob. Bachelor party, dos and don'ts, what do you got?
BECKEL: Well, mine was illegal for most of it. So I really can't get into it.
GUILFOYLE: What?
BECKEL: It was illegal. Well, it was certain things there that were illegal.
But I think I like his advice about traveling around the world. The only thing he missed there was to say that the president of the United States was a communist, a lover of Hitler, and a traitor.
WATTERS: All right. Bolling.
BOLLING: I'm married -- what am I married, 17, 16 -- almost 17 years now. I never had a bachelor party. We eloped, so if you're thinking about it. My wife promised me that.
BECKEL: I'll get you a bachelor party.
WATTERS: We can do that. I think we can organize one right here. I don't think she's let me -- you -- let me have it if you organized it.
BECKEL: Yes. I can give you a real good one.
WATTERS: Kimberly.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
WATTERS: Bachelorette parties?
BECKEL: She's had five of them.
GUILFOYLE: No, I haven't. But I do like them.
WATTERS: I'm sure you do.
GUILFOYLE: I do. I had one amazing one in Vegas. That was pretty good.
WATTERS: Amazing.
GUILFOYLE: Yes.
BECKEL: Did you have male strippers there?
GUILFOYLE: No.
BECKEL: You didn't?
BOLLING: What made it amazing?
GUILFOYLE: I had a wig on.
WATTERS: Just a wig? Just a wig?
GUILFOYLE: Anyway, it was very interesting, and thank God it wasn't the, you know, age of like iPhones with all the...
WATTERS: Yes, you missed the...
BECKEL: You didn't go to Hangers Club?
GUILFOYLE: No.
PERINO: I think at a bachelor party, everybody should talk about what they're looking for in a commitment, and they could have -- sharing.
WATTERS: That is the lamest bachelor party ever.
GUILFOYLE: What? You didn't have a bachelor party.
Oh, my God, Dana would send out articles for everyone to read before the bachelorette party about commitment and how to fulfill your lives.
BECKEL: Yes. That's great.
WATTERS: I do have a few dos and don'ts. Do call your fiancee during the bachelor party at some point. I think that's very important. I think I forgot.
BECKEL: After the strippers are there.
WATTERS: And I got in big trouble. Right, of course.
And then do not...
PERINO: How can you forget?
WATTERS: Do -- well, I was inebriated. Do not do anything stupid in front of your brother-in-law, your future brother-in-law.
GUILFOYLE: Big time.
PERINO: That's smart.
WATTERS: That's solid advice. You're going to get burned.
PERINO: And go to bed by 10.
BECKEL: The next morning.
WATTERS: "One More Thing" is up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BOLLING: All right. It's time "Uno Caso Mas (ph)." K.G., you're up.
GUILFOYLE: I'm very excited today. I woke up. I was in a great mood, because our very own Greta Van Susteren is on the Forbes 100 Most Powerful Women list. And you ask yourself, of course, she's been be on it before. She has. She made it last year, and she was on the inaugural issue, listed as well. Some of the most powerful women in the world. I'm very proud. Very exciting. There is Greta.
And of course, she was very graceful. Attitude of gratitude, thanking everyone that was supporting her in well wishes. You can follow her, @Gretawire and, of course, 7 p.m. Eastern, where she's doing great thing for women in journalism here at the FOX News Channel and across the country.
BOLLING: Congrats from all of us, Greta. From all of us at "The Five." Good job.
PERINO: Hey, Greta, I'm proud of you.
BOLLING: Hey, Bobby, you're up next.
BECKEL: Speaking about a great woman, Dr. Maya Angelou, who was an award-winning author, a renowned poet and a civil rights worker, who rose up out of poverty out of St. Louis, died yesterday at the age of 86. She will be missed. She gave the original poem at Bill Clinton's first inaugural, and she was a leader for all of us in the civil rights movement.
BOLLING: Very good. Thank you very much. Jesse, you're up.
WATTERS: OK. Five-year-old kid tearing up YouTube right now. Stressed out that he's young with all these girlfriends. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You can't have three girlfriends?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I could have two. I don't want three. They're all pretty. I have to give one up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It's rough being five, isn't it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I wish I was four again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: Jesse, how did you find that video from me when I was five?
WATTERS: Mac daddy.
Guilfoyle: Oh, my God.
BOLLING: President Obama, he had the worst first pitch thrown in the history of first pitch until last night, when Fitty Cent did this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Not sure, coming up here mid-June. And that was not a strike.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BOLLING: And do just -- do me a favor. It's only seven seconds. Could we just watch that one more time?
PERINO: I can do better than that.
I have done better than that. Right, Bob?
OK. I love this one. There's a company called Target Smart Communications, and they -- if you put your last name, it's called the last name tool, you can compare yourself politically to other Perinos or Watters and find out what you're likely to vote for.
So Perinos, believe it or not, 52 percent of us Democrats. Bollings, 62 percent. Guilfoyle, 56 percent Democrat. Watters weighs in with 52 percent Democrat. The only people likely to vote Republican on our panel are the Beckels.
GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. What a disgrace.
BECKEL: Over my dead, dead, dead body.
BOLLING: Got to leave it right there. Set your DVR. You know the drill.
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