Exclusive: Speaker of the House John Boehner

Top Republican speaks out on Benghazi select committee, Keystone Pipeline, employment, sanctioning Russia and more


This is a rush transcript from "Sunday Morning Futures," May 11, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

MARIA BARTIROMO, HOST: Democrats remain on the fence. Will they or won't they participate in a special select committee on Benghazi?

Hi, everybody, happy Mother's Day. I'm Maria Bartiromo. This is "Sunday Morning Futures."

Still no word from minority leader Nancy Pelosi as to whether Democrats are all in or all out on the special panel investigating the attack on our consulate in Benghazi. It's just one of the topics I discuss with House Speaker John Boehner in my exclusive interview coming up.

Also moving the needle on jobs and on tax reform, what's next following contempt charges against Lois Lerner at the IRS. That and a lot more coming up with John Boehner.

Plus where are the best investment opportunities these days? One of the highest rated investments, managers and stock pickers in the world on where to put your money as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures."


BARTIROMO: We begin this morning with the crisis in the Ukraine where pro-Russian separatists are holding a referendum on the secession of two of the country's Eastern regions. The vote's being held just days after Russia test fired a new intercontinental ballistic missile. Joining us right now is Kori Schake, a research fellow at the Hoover Institute. She was the director for defense strategy and requirements on the National Security Council during the George W. Bush administration.

Kori, good to have you on the program. Thanks for joining us.


BARTIROMO: What's your sense of the latest right now in Russia?

Is the bigger threat upset within the country because of various groups fighting or Russia against the West?

SCHAKE: Well, I think both are interesting and important story lines. If a real vote had been taken in Ukraine about secession of the Eastern provinces, reliable polling data a couple of weeks ago suggests that almost 70 percent of Ukrainians would want to remain part of the Ukraine.

But there are no independent monitors so that the violence you right pointed out that there is no way those plebiscites actually going to tell us what the people of Ukraine think. It's very dangerous and has the possibility of escalation, given Russia's choices in the last several months.

BARTIROMO: You know, I was talking with John Boehner in my exclusive interview, which will be broadcasting shortly.

I was very taken aback when John Boehner said we need to be pressuring the Europeans. We need to put more pressure on Europe to get tougher.

He actually went as far as saying we should get their banks, the Russian banks but we need Europe's support.

What's stopping the allies from actually coming up with some stringent, tough sanctions against Russia and Putin?

SCHAKE: The exposure of their still recovering economies to Russian oil and gas in particular but also a lot of German businesses and a lot of European businesses, do their new markets are in Russia and eastward.

So we need to move carefully to make sure we bring the Europeans along, because sanctions aren't going to be very effective if we don't have them.

But I do think the German government begins to make -- begins to put pressure on their own businesses to do the right thing and the way to pressure European businesses is to remind them that a Russia that does not respect the rule of law is not a Russia which they are going to probably do business.

BARTIROMO: But how much of a risk is it that as Russia's economy goes down that is impacting Europe?

Europe is the largest trader with the U.S. And then ultimately it becomes a spiraling effect on the global economy.

SCHAKE: That definitely is a possibility. That's the risk you run when economic sanctions are the main tool you are using to effect a state's choices about the use of military force.

BARTIROMO: All right, Kori, I want to talk a lot more with you and focus on Benghazi of course. We are waiting to hear from the Democrats. More to talk with Kori Schake.

But first, to our other big story of the day and that is Benghazi.

What event prompted Speaker John Boehner to form this select committee to investigate the deadly terror attack there?

Here with a timeline, Fox News senior correspondent Eric Shawn with us live once again.

Hi, Eric.

ERIC SHAWN, FOX NEWS HOST: Good morning, Maria and good morning, everyone.

Top officials of the U.S. government knew it was a terrorist attack from the get-go. Not 15 minutes after it started. This all begins about 9:40 pm Benghazi time or 4:40 in the afternoon in Washington, at the Pentagon, General Carter Ham, head of AFRICOM, is alerted by the command center. Ham immediately meets with the Secretary of Defense, Leon Panetta, and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, General Martin Dempsey.

Ham later testifies, quote, "I personally and I think the command very quickly got to the point that this was not a demonstration. This was a terrorist attack. And with General Dempsey and Secretary Panetta, that is the nature of the conversation we had."

Well, Dempsey and Panetta apparently then take that message to the President of the United States directly, face-to-face at a 5 p.m. half- hour meeting at the White House.


LEON PANETTA, FORMER SECRETARY OF DEFENSE: There was no question in my mind that this was a terrorist attack. RPGs show up and then these other arms show up that there's something that's planned here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is a planned terrorist attack?


PANETTA: It's a terrorist attack and I think others, I mean, I know Secretary Clinton and others also identified it as a terrorist attack and that was my view.


SHAWN: And the White House says the president was in contact with his national security team that night and did talk to secretary of state Hillary Clinton by telephone at 10 p.m. The next morning they stood together in the Rose Garden.


PRESIDENT BARACK OBAMA: No acts of terror will ever shake the resolve of this great nation, alter that character or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. Today we mourn for more Americans who represent the very best of the United States of America.


SHAWN: The U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence found some intelligence suggested the attacks were a response to a protest in Cairo about that Internet video. That of course was the explanation Susan Rice then took to those Sunday morning news show, the one the White House stuck with not two months before the presidential election -- Maria.

BARTIROMO: All right, Eric. Thanks very much for that timeline.

More on Benghazi now, once again back with Hoover Institute research fellow Kori Schake.

Kori, what can we learn from this select committee?

SCHAKE: Well, I think the record of choices that were actually made in the run-up to the attack and during the crisis itself are pretty clear. The CIA station chief said it was a terrorist attack. The deputy chief of missions said it was a terrorist attack.

Everyone acting in real time understood what was happening. So we can learn some interesting things from the choices that were made. I think some bad choices were made during the crisis.

But what the real story is for me is how the White House manipulated reaction to the Benghazi attack because it was so politically inconvenient for the president six weeks before an election when he was campaigning on the argument that Al Qaeda was on the run and the tide of war was receding. They politicized a terrorist attack to try and pretend it was the function of a demonstration when they clearly knew otherwise.

BARTIROMO: So they covered up and tie it to a video all so that the storyline that President Obama got bin Laden and Al Qaeda is on the run was sort of in place, just six weeks before the election?

That's what this is all about, just make sure that story is in place, that we beat Al Qaeda and there are no terrorist attacks; meanwhile, we just saw one.

SCHAKE: Yes, that's my judgment about the (INAUDIBLE).

BARTIROMO: Do you think the people watching the select committee being formed and what comes out of it understand that that is what the point is? Because you know, Nancy Pelosi and her colleagues are saying, look, this is all politicizing. We heard the famous line from Hillary Clinton as she testified, what does this matter? You know, what, why does this matter at this point? Now that we know four Americans are dead, including our ambassador?

SCHAKE: Yes, now the White House clearly wants this to be seen as a politicized undertaking, which is really ironic, given that they are the ones who have politicized the intelligence about the terrorist attack.

BARTIROMO: Yes, that's a good point.

Kori, thanks so much for joining us. We appreciate your time. We will see you soon.

SCHAKE: It's a pleasure.

BARTIROMO: Kori Schake joining us from Washington.

Up next my exclusive interview with House Speaker John Boehner, his expectations for the special select committee investigating the Benghazi scandal. What happens now in the IRS investigation and a lot more as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures."


BARTIROMO: Welcome back and now my exclusive interview with the Speaker of the House John Boehner, Speaker Boehner discussing with me a wide array of topics from contempt charges against former IRS official Lois Lerner to jobs and tax reform and, of course, the Benghazi scandal.

I sat down with Speaker Boehner just moments before he announced the names of the six Republican members of the select committee, chaired by Congressman Trey Gowdy, investigating the events surrounding that September 11th, 2012, terrorist attack on our consulate in Libya.

I began by asking Speaker Boehner how he chose these six.


SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE JOHN BOEHNER, R-OHIO: We have a lot of very talented people in our conference. And what I tried to do was to find people who had worked on this investigation and others who frankly had not. But bright, energetic and people committed to getting to the facts.

I don't want -- this is a serious investigation. I don't want theater; I don't want a sideshow. I want the members of this committee to find the facts for the four families who have lost their loved ones and the facts for the American people.

BARTIROMO: Why seven Republicans and five Democrats? Why didn't you go six and six?

BOEHNER: Well, because Republicans have the majority in the House. And the way the House operates, the majority has more members. And as a result, on each of the committees we have more members.

Now Leader Pelosi, when she created the so-called climate change committee, you know, it was -- I think it was eight to five or nine to six, somewhere in that range, which is very typical for what happens here in the House.

BARTIROMO: So in fact, last week we learned that there were some documents withheld.

BOEHNER: Well, that's the whole purpose of this. We've had four committees working on this for the last 20 months and they have done a very good job. But last week there were two lines that were crossed.

One is when it became clear that the White House was more engaged in how this was going to be described than they had previously admitted to. And secondly there were some documents that were turned over to Judicial Watch as a result of a FOIA request that had not been turned over via a subpoena that the Congress had issued to the administration.

Two serious mistakes, in my view, that where they told me they're not going to be honest with us and it was time to bring all of these investigations into one place.

BARTIROMO: So what are you looking for to find out that we don't know already?

BOEHNER: I think there are probably three areas that the committee will look at. The events leading up to 9/11, 2012, the requests -- the number of requests for more security and why it was not provided.

Then obviously the events of the night of September 11, 2012, what happened, why there was no response.

And then thirdly, why did the White House describe this in a way I believe they knew was false?

BARTIROMO: Yes, and you've said that. You said that the White House played a more significant role in the development of how they communicated and how they described what happened.

How do we know that? Tell us more about that.

BOEHNER: Well, I think this e-mail what we saw last week, where it was not only describing this differently than I think they knew at the time, but also why. Because the storyline out of the White House before their election was Al Qaeda's on the run and we have killed bin laden.

They didn't want that storyline to be stepped on.

BARTIROMO: This is the point. So take us back to September 11, 2012, we were right before the presidential election.

Do you think the Benghazi cover-up actually changed the outcome of the election?

BOEHNER: Well, I don't think -- we will never know that. But the American people deserve the truth. Our entire system of government is built on transparency and accountability.

And without that, we're giving power to the administration and taking power away from the American people. The truth is important for this case so that we do not ever get into a situation like this again. There are a lot of lessons to be learned here.

And that will be one of the charges from me to the committee, to make sure that the lessons that are learned here guide us so that we don't have a situation like this again.

BARTIROMO: And you think Chairman Gowdy and Darrell Issa will work together and Issa's been working on this for a long time.

Are they going to share information?

BOEHNER: All the committees that have worked on the investigation are going to be required to turn over all of their documents, committee records, notes, work product to the select committee. So all the documents will be in one place. And it will be up to the select committee to review all those documents and to make decisions about how to proceed.

BARTIROMO: Is there a budget in place for this committee?

What's the timeline in terms of when the American people can find out what -- ?


BOEHNER: It's not going to cost any more money. We're going to pay for the cost of this committee out of existing House funds. It will take a couple of weeks to -- there has to be space provided. They're going to have to hire staff. So it will take a little while to get up and running but they'll get enough -- ample time to review the documents as well.

BARTIROMO: Let me ask you about other facts that people want to know about and that's the IRS. We know that Lois Lerner has been now held in contempt of Congress for refusing to testify on targeting of nonprofit groups.

What's next? How's this -- will there be a select committee there?

BOEHNER: The contempt charge has gone to the attorney general. And it's up to the attorney general, Eric Holder, to prosecute this. And to assign someone to prosecute the case.

Now will they do it? We don't know. But ball is in his court.

BARTIROMO: But you can issue an arrest for her. Right? You can --

BOEHNER: There is a provision in the Constitution that has never been used. And so that's a -- I'm not quite sure that we want to get on that path.

BARTIROMO: So you're not looking to do that?

BOEHNER: No. It's never been used.


BOEHNER: I'm not the historian here. But it has never been used. And I'm not sure that it's an appropriate way to go about this.

It's up to Eric Holder to do his job.

BARTIROMO: Do you think he will?

BOEHNER: I don't know.


BARTIROMO (voice-over): Still more to come of my interview with Speaker Boehner including pressure in Russia, jobs, tax reform and will Hillary Clinton be subpoenaed in the select committee?

Later, from the U.S. to Asia, where are the investment opportunities (INAUDIBLE) one of the most successful stock pickers and investment managers in the world as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures."


BARTIROMO: More now of my exclusive interview with House Speaker John Boehner. First up the crisis in the Ukraine. I asked Speaker Boehner what we need to do now, to put real pressure on Russia.


BOEHNER: The sanctions are -- will have some effect. But I'm concerned that we have not pushed the Europeans hard enough to take a firmer line against the Russians. And our allies in the region are scared to death.

What Putin is doing is making the world less safe and certainly making Europe less safe.

BARTIROMO: But of course, Europe is getting 35 percent of its gas from Russia. I man, their hands are tied. He's using gas as leverage.

BOEHNER: That's why the president ought to take the 25 export licenses that are sitting at his Department of Energy that would allow us to export more liquid natural gas to our allies in the region. This would help free them from the bondage of the Russians and help put Americans back to work here, producing that natural gas.

BARTIROMO: So would you be pushing for further deeper sanctions?

BOEHNER: Absolutely.

BARTIROMO: Like what?

BOEHNER: Absolutely. Their -- go after their banks. There's a lot of ways that we could ratchet this up. I do think we need the Europeans to work with us, though. Because if we have a united front, the U.S. and our European allies, I think we can be very effective.

BARTIROMO: We saw what appeared to be a good jobs report last week, almost 300,000 new jobs created. And yet 800,000 people simply gave up. The participation rate continues to go down.

How are we going to move the needle on job creation?

BOEHNER: Maria, five years ago this week, I first asked the question where are the jobs. And when I travel in my district, when I travel around the country, I hear it all the time, where are the jobs? We passed 40 jobs bills here in the House over the last year and a half. And they're all sitting in the United States Senate. And I yesterday called on the president to pick up his phone and call the Senate majority leader and tell them to move these bills.

There's been no outreach from the administration on any of these jobs bills. And many of them passed with bipartisan support.

BARTIROMO: What specifically do you think are the easy levers to create jobs?

Well, how about the Keystone Pipeline? This is the easiest thing we could do. We operate over 200,000 miles of pipeline in the United States. And the only reason the president's involved in this one is because it crosses an international boundary. My goodness, let's put people to work immediately. How about the skills act that combined a lot of our job training and retraining problems and put more focus on helping to train people for the jobs that are available today?

We have got 4 million people out of work and guess what? We have 4 million job openings in America. But the openings we have don't match up with the skill set that those who are seeking work have. We need to do a better job of providing job training and retraining for our workers.

BARTIROMO: Tell me about the midterms and what your expectations are. A lot of people believe that the Republicans are in one of the best positions headed into the midterms in a long time.

BOEHNER: I think we have got a chance to pick up seats in the House. I think we have a chance to win the United States Senate. We've just got to stay focused on what the American people want of us. And they want is better economy and better wages and more jobs.

BARTIROMO: Something we've been talking about a lot is tax reform. You've got companies like Pfizer wanting to acquire AstraZeneca just to get a better tax story and move its headquarters out of the United States. But umpteen number companies keeping $2 trillion overseas.

How do you move then needle on tax reform? Why hasn't this been done after all of the talking about it?

BOEHNER: Well, a lot of work done on it and the chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, Dave Camp, about two months outlined a discussion draft, put it out in the public. You can go and read it -- that would bring top rates down to 25 percent, clean up a bunch of loopholes, close them up, clean up the tax code, would allow about 95 percent of the American people to do their own taxes on two sheets of paper.

And so that discussion draft is out there. We have the highest corporate treatment rate in the world. We have a system for multinationals that overcharge them to bring money back to the United States. They want to bring most of that money back here, but we make it so expensive for them because we've got a broken tax code. And because it's so complicated, it only collects about 86 percent of what it should collect.

We can help our economy, bring down the rates, make it easier for people to comply. We'll -- the code will be more efficient. We will be able to collect more of what's due us.

BARTIROMO: All right. Let me end where I began, and that is on the select committee. What's the timeline on this? When would you expect people to start finding out the -- what the committee is --

BOEHNER: There is no timeline. Their job is to -- is to look at the documents, understand where we are, understand what we don't know and then begin to seek what we don't know.

BARTIROMO: Will Hillary Clinton be subpoenaed?

BOEHNER: Oh, I have no idea. I'm not the chairman of the committee.

BARTIROMO: Mr. Speaker, good to have you on the program.

Would you like to add anything else?

BOEHNER: No. Nice to be with you.

BARTIROMO: Thank you so much for joining us.



BARTIROMO: Speaker John Boehner.

Up next, got a 401(k)? Remember the meltdown back in 2007? Up next, a globally acclaimed investor on a backdrop for stocks and where you should be sticking your money right now as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures."


BARTIROMO: Is the stock market rigged? We've heard that question a lot this year. Well, try this one on for size. Is the stock market rigged by the Federal Reserve? My next guest has a lot to say about that and about the best areas to invest your money right now both in the United States and overseas.

He's Jim Rogers, chairman of Rogers Holdings.

And Jim, it's always nice to have you on the program. Welcome back to the U.S. You're in from Singapore.

JIM ROGERS, CHAIRMAN, ROGERS HOLDINGS: Just this morning, yes. I'm very tired.


BARTIROMO: I'm so happy to see you again.

First let's talk about the Fed. You had a lot of comments and opinions about what the Fed has done to this market with quantitative easing, keeping interest rates so low.

What's troubling to you?

ROGERS: Maria, it's not just the Fed. It's the first time in recorded history that all major central banks are printing huge amounts of money. The Japanese, the Europeans, the English and the American. This is absurd. The world is floating on a rising artificial ocean of liquidity and when it dries up, we're all going to suffer.

BARTIROMO: Isn't it drying up right now with the Federal Reserve beginning what's called the taper? They are cutting back the amount of securities they buy?

ROGERS: Yes, yes, it's dried up some. But as the Japanese said, we will print unlimited -- that's their word -- unlimited amounts of money. So we're not the only people.

And yes, the Fed has started cutting back. But you know what's going to happen? When people start peeling paint, the Fed's going to say, oh, we're sorry and they're going to stop and then the whole thing will start over.

Be worried.

BARTIROMO: Be worried.

What do folks at home watching need to know about this in terms of their own investments? What happens when in fact the market recognizes that QE was manipulating the market as you say?

ROGERS: We've had bear markets and hard economic times every 4-6 years since the beginning of the republic of America. We're going to have them again. And the next time, it's going to be worse because the debt is so, so much higher. And all of this printed money is staggering.

This is something that has never happened in world history and it's not going to be fun when it is.

BARTIROMO: Is that why you would stay away from U.S. stocks? You're not investing your money in the U.S. right now?

ROGERS: Well, at the moment, the United States stock market's at an all-time high. So I don't like to buy anything at all-time highs. My parents told me to buy low and sell high, not that I'm any good at it, but that's what I try to do anyway. And the U.S. is at an all-time high. Why would I put money here?

BARTIROMO: All right. So you don't want to put money in the U.S. but you actually buying Russia? This one you have to explain to me. Capital is flying out of Russia. The ruble is dropping. Everyone's afraid of what happens next with Putin.

And there is Jim Rogers buying Russia.

ROGERS: Doesn't that sound bullish, everything you said? Everyone knows you're supposed to buy when there's blood in the streets. There's figurative blood in the streets. Russia's probably the most hated -- well, Argentina's more hated -- the most hated stock market in the world. Everybody massive natural resources and massive assets. You're supposed to buy low and sell high.

BARTIROMO: What do you buy in Russia? How do you do it?

ROGERS: I actually own shares of the Moscow Stock Exchange, believe it or not, the home of Stalin, the home of Lenin. And I own shares of the Moscow Stock Exchange. There are various things that you can buy, indexes, plenty of -- and plenty of ways to play.

BARTIROMO: Index is to get broad exposure in Russia . Now John Boehner just said we have got to deepen these sanctions and we've got to go after their banks.

ROGERS: You know, that is one of the most ludicrous things I've ever heard. Next month all the BRICS nations are meeting to try to figure out a way to get away from the American financial system and the American dollar. He's going to drive the whole world away from America. He thinks he's helping America? He's ruining America.

This is absurd. They are already trying to figure out a way to get out of the American banks and he's just going to drive them away.

BARTIROMO: Well, OK. So you want to buy Russia; you also say China, there are opportunities through China?

ROGERS: Well, the Chinese had a big meeting in November. They said it's one of the three most important economic events in the past 35 -- and they said this is where we're going to put money.

Now if the Chinese government's going to put a lot of money into something, I am, too. They have more money than I do. They are smarter than I am. They've been more successful than I. So I have got the list. And I'm starting to buy some things.

Now I worry about the Chinese market because there's a huge debt problem in China. But I'm starting to find the companies and when they go down, I'm starting to -- again, the Chinese are going to put huge amounts of money into some parts of their economy in the next 30 years.

So am I.

BARTIROMO: Do you worry that the Chinese economy is slowing and that's going to have ripple effects all around the world? For the longest time China was the producer of products for the world. And anything that happened in their economy impacted the U.S. in very --


ROGERS: I assure you China has problems, we're going to have problems, everybody's going to have problems. It's just when America has problems, everybody has --

BARTIROMO: So are they having problems now?

ROGERS: Having some -- not yet. Not yet. But, well, they are. Some real estate has got a problem. Inflation's a problem. They are starting to find places to try to solve these problems. And when they do, as I said before, I expect to see some more problems in the market. But I hope that I'm smart enough to buy when there's more blood in the streets in China.

BARTIROMO: All right, real quick, is there anything you would buy in the U.S.?

You said you like agriculture.

ROGERS: Well, I like agriculture futures. I mean, maybe -- the Rogers Agricultural Index, to be simple and safe.

BARTIROMO: You said to me you don't want to be a stock investor; you'd rather be a farmer?

So --

ROGERS: Yes. So if you learn to drive a tractor -- I've been telling you for years, learn to drive a tractor, Maria.

BARTIROMO: Jim, it's great to --

ROGERS: I will buy you a tractor if you will learn to drive it.

BARTIROMO: OK. You got a deal.

Jim Rogers joining us.

Thank you so much, Jim. Good to see you.

And with a look at what's coming up on "Media Buzz," let's check in with Howard Kurtz.

Howie, what's happening at the top of the hour?

HOWARD KURTZ, FOX NEWS HOST: Hi, Maria. I have got a very candid interview with James Carville on why his friend, Hillary Clinton, after all these years, so distrustful toward journalists, but we're going to lead off with the media ruckus over that Monica Lewinsky essay in "Vanity Fair," why it struck a nerve and why she is reviving her humiliation in the social media age, that contrasts with the way Bill Clinton is treated as a global rock star.

Do you remember in 1998 when that story broke, how it dominated the news for more than a year?

BARTIROMO: It really did. And you know, you feel sort of sorry that she has to actually do this, come out and explain that her life has been ruined.

KURTZ: Absolutely ruined. People recognize her any day, every day as the former intern and what she did in the Oval Office. And you got to feel some sympathy for her. And I guess this is the only thing she has to sell, her story, trying to rehabilitate her image a little bit and maybe find a job.

BARTIROMO: Howie, we'll see you at the top of the hour. Thanks so much, Howard Kurtz.

What can the select committee on Benghazi hope to uncover? Our panel is next, weighing in as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures."


BARTIROMO: Welcome back. House Speaker John Boehner announcing the six GOP lawmakers who will serve on the select committee to investigate the Benghazi attack.

So far House Democrats appear unsure whether they will even take part in the committee or boycott it altogether.

Joining us now, Pulitzer Prize winning reporter and author, Judith Miller, a FOX News contributor; Maya MacGuineas, president of the Committee for a Responsible Budget; and Ed Rollins, a veteran Republican national campaign director.

Good to see you all. Thanks so much for being here.


BARTIROMO: When are you expecting Nancy Pelosi and company to be part of this select committee, Judy?

JUDITH MILLER, REPORTER AND AUTHOR: Well, as soon as she can get -- figure out whether or not her Democrats believe that it's going to be in the interest of the party to join or to boycott and try and portray the select committee as a total, quote, "kangaroo court."

That will be the strategy. If they boycott I think it will be risky. I think ultimately she will join but the Democrats are deeply divided.


BARTIROMO: So you think it's risky for the Dems if they don't join?

MILLER: I think it's very risky. Because you have no veto power, you can't raise a ruckus. You can't do anything --


ED ROLLINS, POLITICAL CAMPAIGN STRATEGIST: This is deeply important. This is going to be the story of the summer. There's nothing else that's going to get through; immigration and all the rest is not getting through. So the people that are on this committee are all of a sudden going to become stars.

We don't know most of these members of the Congress; all of a sudden they're the ones going to be on FOX News and other stations talking about it and there will be no counterpoint. There will be no Democrat to go on and say something different.

So my sense is it would be foolish for them not to base or participate. And I think what John Boehner did is he picked some low-level people in the sense of not being high-profile but very able people and I think that's going to be a big difference.

MILLER: And two women. That's very important --

ROLLINS: Three women. Three women --

MILLER: -- because -- exactly. Because what's really at stake here is how badly this hurts Hillary. The Democrats must protect Hillary.

BARTIROMO: Does it hurt Hillary?

ROLLINS: It depends on what comes out. My sense is it's early. She's above all of this. Unless you can really put an indictment right at her door that she didn't basically respond in any positive way my sense is that she will brush it aside over time.

BARTIROMO: Actually, there is two women actually. There are two women on the select committee.

Let me ask you though, there is so much going on. And the Democrats will say should we really be delving into this now again, politicizing this, is what you're saying, when you have got the Ukraine? You know, the situation deepening. When you have got Putin wanting all of Ukraine? And in fact these economic sanctions, Maya, haven't done much to scare Putin.

Yes. I would say that what we are seeing is the beginning of a reminder of the limits of economic sanctions, which on one hand are very desirable because it keeps us from having to get embroiled in a military way when we don't really want to in this kind of situation overseas.

But we're quickly being reminding of the limitations, particularly with our allies, which have real business interests involved in Russia and there's a real downside of the economic sanctions and therefore a limit of how far people want to go. You talked in your interview with Boehner about how far the sanctions should go. There is some real risks about going after actual industries beyond just individuals.

BARTIROMO: Well, what are the risks? He said, look, we got to go after the banks.

MACGUINEAS: Right. So you can see that there will be a profound effect on how the rest of the world would feel about our banking industry if suddenly we're going after using that industry --

ROLLINS: The Speaker is powerful (INAUDIBLE) sanctions. The president decides the sanctions and obviously Congress can go along with it. But he's -- whatever he wants at this point is not -- it doesn't really matter.

MILLER: And remember, there are so many areas where U.S.-Russian cooperation are still vital. We have the upcoming Iran deal, if that's going to happen. We have cooperation on Syria for removal of chemical weapons.

The president does not want the sanctions to be so severe as to totally alienate the Russians. It's a very delicate line.

MACGUINEAS: And it is also a balance with our European allies who are pushing back and saying they have stronger business ties in many cases and don't want to be pushed to go as far as some here might want us to.

BARTIROMO: And they say -- and he said, look, we've got to put more pressure on the Europeans, which I had not heard him say before.

ROLLINS: Again, it doesn't matter what he says. You remember the Germans, when Merkel was here last week, the very day she's here, the German business people are saying don't go so far. That's where the influence is going to be. It will not be the House of Representatives who can pontificate but obviously can't put through the sanctions.

BARTIROMO: All right. A lot more to talk about.

I thought it was really interesting that you said you think the Benghazi story will be the story of the summer. Well come back to that, plus a lot of indicators expected this upcoming week offering a window into the shape of our economy. Our panel on that and comments on tax reform. Much more by Speaker Boehner in my exclusive interview as we look ahead on "Sunday Morning Futures."


BARTIROMO: And we're back with our panel, Judy Miller, Ed Rollins, Maya MacGuineas. Let's talk economic issues here. John Boehner said the low-hanging fruit in terms of job creation was Keystone, Maya, once again. And we pushed it back because we're politicking and not leading.

MACGUINEAS: I think Keystone could be part of the whole jobs agenda. I think you need a broad jobs agenda. And so I would look at things from infrastructure, the broader pieces of infrastructure, we're just about to bump up at the highway, every highway built, the trust fund will run out of funds. And we have no plan once again for how we're going to finance that.

ROLLINS: And why that's important --


ROLLINS: -- that's 700,000 jobs. We spend $1 billion a week of federal money to states. Pretty soon, because we get to the summer, some of these states will say I don't think I'm going to get the federal money. So I'll basically put the issue off until next year. So it can be a very, very --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That could freeze --

ROLLINS: -- could really freeze --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- some parts of the economy.

MACGUINEAS: Another thing I would think about is if you look at entrepreneurs and how you're getting job startups in this country, things about how you're going to gin up the economy, how you're going to create new jobs, so the entrepreneurial sector and how you link the middle class to that is another piece of it.

And then something John Boehner also talked about, the tax reform. Tax reform's not immediate, it's long-term. But for the jobs agenda, which needs to be exhaustive, you need short, immediate-term pieces and then you need longer-term changes from tax reform, budgetary reform, education reform. We need to do a lot of different pieces at once. And we're not doing much at all right now.


BARTIROMO: But what is it going to take to get tax reform on the agenda?

I mean Pfizer wants to take its headquarters out of the United States to acquire AstraZeneca, just to get better tax treatment.

MILLER: Absolutely.

BARTIROMO: Highest tax rate on the corporate side in the world.

ROLLINS: It's on the agenda it's just you can't find any consensus. The problem with the Camp bill, which is a very interesting bill, it could never pass today. It could not pass the Senate. And it's great for lowering taxpayers' rates but the financial community gets hit hard. And they're the ones with all the lobbyists and everything else. It's going to -- it's not going to -- I just don't see it happening.

MACGUINEAS: I don't think it is on the agenda because I think Camp, Chairman Camp came out with an excellent, excellent starting point, which members of both sides said this is a serious starting point. And then leadership from both parties has really walked away from pushing tax reform, the White House isn't pushing tax reform, put something on the agenda. The leaders need to talk about it then they need to deal with the tradeoffs.

And you're absolutely right. Listen, the lobbying bonanza that will come around tax reform is going to be unprecedented. And there are not enough people arguing for the overall benefit --


ROLLINS: -- there are three major things that we need to deal with and there's plans out there, none of which are successful. Immigration, the Senate has a plan; it's not going to go anywhere in the House. Tax reform has a -- Camp has his plan out there; it's not going to go anywhere and basically there is the whole corporate restructuring, budgetary restructuring and that's not going anywhere.

BARTIROMO: So do we just sit and wait for the next five or six months, nothing gets done before the midterms, right?

In fact, I said this to Speaker Boehner, he said a lot gets done in fact.

ROLLINS: I would argue that -- I'm sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.

I would argue a lot's not going to get done until after the next presidential election.

MACGUINEAS: I mean, the problem is a lot hasn't gotten done in quite some time as well. But we've been stuck on so many issues that should have moved forward from immigration to the budget. And right now the dysfunction in Washington is keeping anything, any of these big issues from moving forward.


MILLER: But that's the issue, is it not? Whom will the public blame for that?

Will it blame lack of leadership by the president or stonewalling by Republicans in Congress? And it's -- I think we're going to get a hint of that in the midterms.

BARTIROMO: So what are the implications if in fact Boehner is right and the GOP takes the Senate and also wins more seats in the House?

ROLLINS: There's no way that the president could declare when he's sitting at 40 percent approval ratings that he basically had a -- that the country is behind him. The country is not behind him. And I think, if anything, he gets weaker in the last two years and you're going to find every single Democrat -- I assume Hillary is the only one who will run for president -- but if there are others, they're going to get as far away from him as possible in the next two years.

BARTIROMO: So Hillary runs for president, you think? Does Benghazi matter or not?

MILLER: It certainly looks that way. I don't know if Benghazi will matter. I think a lot depends on the select committee.

BARTIROMO: All right. We'll leave it there. We'll take a short break.

Still to come, the one thing to watch for in the week ahead on SUNDAY MORNING FUTURES. Back in a moment.




BARTIROMO: And we're back with our panel.

What is the one big thing to watch in the week ahead and the weeks ahead?

Judy Miller, Ed Rollins, Maya MacGuineas with me.

Maya, what's your one thing?

MACGUINEAS: I think in the coming weeks you should watch what's going to happen with this fight over tax extenders, which is the number of tax breaks which have expired and the House and Senate want to put a lot of them back in place, some permanently, some for the next couple years.

But the real question is, are they going to talk even about paying for them?

Right now, all of the plans will just layer the cost on to the national debt. And this is just a huge backsliding from where we've been, where people have understood that the long-term debt is unsustainable. And layering more and more borrowing on top of it will make the situation worse, even though a lot of those tax extenders make sense.


BARTIROMO: Ed, what's your one thing?

ROLLINS: If you're a young man and you want to be rich, don't go to Harvard Business School, go be a rap star. If Apple buys Beats, Dr. Dre is going to become a multibillionaire and maybe that's the new road to fortune.

BARTIROMO: (INAUDIBLE) headphones. Karman's another one, actually.

Judy, what are you watching?

MILLER: Boko Haram, will we get further dragged into this controversy? Will we become the country that's going to show them how to get those girls back, now that Michelle Obama has taken such an up-front and personal position?

BARTIROMO: All right. We'll be watching all of that. I guess I'm watching the Fed next week, a number of Federal Reserve governors and presidents speaking out. We'll see what they say about where we are in this economy.

Thank you so much to our panel for joining us.

Thank you all for being with us. Have a wonderful Mother's Day. That will do it for "Sunday Morning Futures" today. I'm Maria Bartiromo. "Media Buzz" with Howard Kurtz is next. And I'll see you next week on the "Opening Bell" on the FOX Business network, 9 a.m. ET on FBN. Have a great Mother's Day.

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