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The Five

9/11 Museum film controversy

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 24, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: It turns out, it was only a rash.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Thank God.

GUTFELD: Yes.

Hello, everyone. I'm Greg Gutfeld, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, the Sean Hannity, and she hang-glides on a butterfly, it's Dana Perino.

This is "The Five."

(MUSIC)

GUTFELD: So, a new film that will run in the National September 11th Memorial Museum has ticked off its interfaith advisers, called "The Rise of Al Qaeda," it uses the words Islamic and jihad when referring to terrorists, I know, disgusting. Said the imam in the group, quote, "Unsophisticated visitors who do not understand the difference between Al Qaeda and Muslims may come away with a prejudice view of Islam, leaving to antagonism and even confrontation."

In short, facts will cause us rubes to beat Muslims up.

However, FBI stats show anti-Muslim bashing is rare. And it is not like the museum smears Muslims at all. It shows that they were also the victims that day and the rescuers.

Look, if you feel that basic words harm your beliefs, that's more about your insecurity than our rage. And what would the imam prefer us to say? That 9/11 was caused by men unhappy with tall buildings or that terrorists were really Mormons posing as Muslims to smear Islam?

My guess is they wish 9/11 were cleansed of all things Islam, which ain't happening. At some point, you have to say it out loud: 9/11 was done by Islamic radicals and they're still killing all over the world. They are fiends and they are your problem as much as it is ours.

So, that's the first step, admitting you have a problem. Other religions have done it, too. So, why not join the club? We won't bite.

Anyway, that was your point, wasn't it?

PERINO: Well, I did not see your monologue today.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: What is my -- what did I write right here in my own handwriting? Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: So at least we're on the same page.

GUTFELD: But, see, the thing is -- let me go to Sean -- I do think there are obviously moderate Muslims out here who feel that there is a problem. But they can't say it because they're scared, too. Is that fair to say?

SEAN HANNITY, CO-HOST: Oh, very -- look, they're viewed as apostates if they go out against their religion.

I think the person that's been the best and most out spoken and the most hard-hitting on this is sitting right next to me, not the guy I often agree with on issues.

But here is the reality, the truth is this -- under Sharia, women are treated horribly. There are radical Islamists, and there has been this reluctance, mysterious reluctance resistance by those that practice the Muslim faith to speak out against those that are hijacking their religion. That, to me, is a big problem.

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Yes, listen, here's -- I am very curious to see if this imam, who's made all these complaints, apologized for 9/11 or said something, anything.

HANNITY: And go back in the record.

BECKEL: Yes, and that's the thing that gets me, whether it was the Cole, whether it was the first World Trade Center bombing, the second one, the Boston marathon. Not one head of one Muslim country ever said it was a bad thing. Not one imam, not one cleric. They were dancing in the streets in Egypt.

I mean, look, I know there are moderate Muslims out there, don't get me wrong, and you know, you got a faith, and it's one of the great faiths of the world. But you are cowards when it comes to standing up to these punks that are ruining your -- it's not us ruining your religion. It's your people, not us.

GUTFELD: Kimberly, it wasn't just the imam. I think it's a council of different faiths. They were all uncomfortable I guess with these terms. Is it -- do they have a legitimate complaint or is this another example of Islamophobia-phobia, where everybody is just scared of appearing as though they don't like Islam.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: It is. It's Islamophobia-phobia. That's exactly what it is, and they should better equip themselves with the facts and the truth because the fact of the matter is, that every single one of the 9/11 hijackers declared that this was an act of jihad. They were members of al Qaeda. They made martyr videos and they were very specific about their beliefs and their intentions I guess to lend these acts of terror against the United States.

So why is it now we're put in this position to apologize for terrorists that are murderers? They shouldn't do it.

BECKEL: I'd like to see, I'd like to see the script of this five minute or six-minute film they've got. But it's almost as if we're saying -- all radical Islam, everybody in the Muslim community is radical. I would bet you it doesn't say that.

HANNITY: It doesn't.

GUILFOYLE: No.

BECKEL: Right? So, what is it? I mean, you can't -- you're exactly right. I mean, these people -- they were -- they were Islamic radicals and they were Muslims. I mean, you can't -- right, how are you going to get around that?

HANNITY: Look, I don't often defend NBC News, but Brian Williams is the guy that narrated this whole thing, and I don't think Brian Williams is known for going exactly over the top like Greg Gutfeld or --

GUTFELD: Yes, that's true.

And none of us could see a word -- none of us were allowed to see the script until the museum is open. But this council did.

So, we don't know what's in there, but we do know they were a bit objective to those specific terms.

Dana, what do you make of this? The president of the museum said we've gone out of our way to tell the truth, is that maybe the problem? They don't -- the truth is unsavory?

PERINO: It seems to me that the entire museum project and memorial, that they have bent over backwards, and it's time to get it open. And people that have gone to visit, you know, if out of town guests that come, almost number one on their list of things to go see is the World Trade Center site.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: And I think everyone benefits from seeing, and learning more and being reminded of it. And speaking about the victims' families, what about their rights to be able to mourn and to be able to have the truth out there? More Muslims are murdered by radical Islam than Christians.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: So, it -- it is confusing.

But on the question of where are most of the moderate Muslims, truth is because many of them live in very poor countries they're just trying to put food on the table. And so, they don't -- also they get ostracized and there are reprisals. When you're a conservative in Hollywood, you don't want to come out and say it because your career prospects might be harmed. That is true for moderate Muslims. If you come out and say something it could hurt your family, your prospects, your ability to feed your children.

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: Can I ask a question?

BECKEL: Yes.

HANNITY: Why is it we get in insane reaction over a Muslim cartoon, or script that identifies -- as you said in your opening monologue, which I thought was dead on, spot on, that there are radical Islamists, the 9/11 Commission report said they were at war with us, we weren't at war with them. And if you speak out at all against them, or if you say anything against the religion, it goes back to Salman Rushdie, the Satanic versus, a fatwa was put out one on him. I wouldn't be surprised if there's one put out on him.

BECKEL: Yes, but that's fine.

But, you know, Dana, one thing you say here, though, I believe that CAIR, the people involved with CAIR, have to worry about putting food on the table. Certainly, the Saudi government doesn't have to. My problem is really the Saudi elites, the elected -- appointed -- and the rest of them maybe they are afraid. I can understand that. I can understand what they are.

And these radicals say, well, if you get killed, you get 72 virgins. I have thought about converting if that's the case. But it is --

GUTFELD: Those poor virgins.

HANNITY: You and Bill Clinton, go ahead.

BECKEL: No, but I'm telling you, where are they? If they weren't -- they allowed their religion to get hijacked. Get it back.

PERINO: Well, I think we actually know the answer to that. The answer is education and leadership. And one of the best things that has happened for world relations is having people from the Muslim world come and study in the United States. That has become a problem with these terrorists, many of them were on student visas, and then murdered 3,000 of our people.

HANNITY: Can I make a political point, though?

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

HANNITY: And I don't want to make this too political because Bob is close enough to hit me. But where is the left in America? Because the women in Saudi Arabia that can't drive, they have this morality police, they can't be seen, Kimberly, out in public.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I know, in public.

HANNITY: With somebody that they're not related to. What about in some of these countries, rape -- that women need three male eyewitnesses to prove their case. Where's the left that claims they have a monopoly on compassion for their groups?

GUTFELD: There are entertainers that will not play in certain groups in America because of their religious beliefs, like Boy Scouts, but they will play in Islamic countries.

BECKEL: You know who really lost an opportunity here is Barack Obama, a guy who's been, you know, stigmatized as being too pro-Muslim. David Cameron had a lot of guts to stand up there and said what he said about it. He said it was a Christian nation, you can't continue to kill Christians in Muslim countries.

I would think that Obama and Kerry, the deathly silence out of this thing has got me totally perplexed. I don't get it.

GUILFOYLE: It's such an opportunity for them to speak out and on the record and shows some integrity and some leadership and convictions that actually could help move us forward as a country. I don't think we should be a country of apologists when we had Americans viciously murdered by these terrorists. I don't think we should change the rhetoric. We've identified the facts. It's not bombastic. It's not in any way hyperbole, it is the truth. It is part of the story.

PERINO: There is a way to avoid this controversy, not that I think that they shouldn't have done the video, but one of the ways to do it is just to run the clips from that morning, from the news programs to say this is what happened.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

PERINO: And then people can make up of their own minds.

GUTFELD: They might actually have it there, but we don't know. I mean, that's the other thing, too, that's weird. And maybe -- I don't know, should there be a film at the museum that tracks al Qaeda's planning of the events? I believe that this video actually talks about what al Qaeda is and I guess that's important. But I don't care, you know -- I don't -- I just --

HANNITY: Why don't you care?

GUTFELD: I mean, they're evil and I should know about that before I get there.

BECKEL: What do they expect us to say? Do they expect this film to say some bad people did this?

GUILFOYLE: Right, sugarcoat it.

BECKEL: We know -- you're right, we know who did it. They were Islamic radicals. Apparently, you moderates can't control.

So -- but you think we're going to put on a film about what happened at the World Trade Center and not mention the fact it was Islamic radicals? If you do, you're dumber than -- anyway.

PERINO: Not to mention the hundreds of millions, billions, trillions of dollars that we are going to have to try to spend to protect ourselves from radical individuals that want to kill us.

GUTFELD: Yes, every religion has had crazy elements. I mean, we had the Spanish inquisitions, ground witches. But you get out of that area, you move away, you expunge that.

HANNITY: I'm a Catholic. We paid money -- taxpayer money for a crucifix in urine, or an elephant dung on the Virgin Mary in Brooklyn museum.

GUTFELD: Andre Serrano (ph).

HANNITY: I don't see Catholics react in the way that for example the reaction to the Salman Rushdie's book or the Danish cartoonist.

BECKEL: By the way, we talk about this the other day. I'm still waiting for Pope Francis besides these sort of oblique references you made to this. The Vatican ought to be upfront in Christian persecution and they're not.

HANNITY: I agree. I think he probably would be.

GUTFELD: All right. Got to roll, next, fourth graders are caught dealing pot at an elementary school in Colorado after Chris Christie slammed the state this week for legalizing it. His war on weed, coming up on "The Five."

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: I like the song.

Well, Colorado and Washington legalized pot and will the rest of the nation follow as well? Well, according to a recent Pew survey, 75 percent of Americans think marijuana will be legalized nationwide.

But New Jersey Governor Chris Christie says it will not ever happen in his state on his watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), NEW JERSEY: I am not going to be the governor who is going to tell our children and our young adults that marijuana use is OK, because it's not. I don't care about the tax money that may come from it. And I don't care quite frankly that people think it's inevitable.

It's not inevitable here. I'm not going to permit it -- never, as long as I'm governor. You want to elect somebody else who is willing to legalize marijuana and expose our children to the gateway drug and the effects it has on their brain, you'll have to live with yourself if you do that, but it's not going to be this governor who does it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Never ever, ever.

Well, it didn't take long for the governor's words to ring true as fourth graders, Greg, in Colorado were just caught dealing weed. What do you have to say to yourself and for that?

GUTFELD: You know what is deadlier than pot, Governor Christie, what kills 300,000 people every year? Obesity.

HANNITY: Ooh!

BECKEL: Ooh, what a shot!

GUTFELD: There are no recorded deaths by overdose of marijuana, you have to smoke like 20,000 joints. Of course, people get high and they do stupid things. But more people have died from the war on drugs than the drugs themselves.

It's insulting to reasonable people to equate legalization with telling children it's OK to do drugs. That's not the point. If you're pro-gun, does that mean that you are advocating children shooting themselves? These are inert substances. Drugs do not cough into people's mouths the same way guns don't shot, without a help of a pinger. This is an inert substance and it should be treated like that, and we should respect people who want it legalized.

And I return to the thing. You should then ban Twinkies and should ban steaks and yo should ban cool whip and all the stuff that makes you fat.

BECKEL: You know, there is --

HANNITY: Not Twinkies. Please, not Twinkies.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, Twinkie shake.

BECKEL: Without getting into the issue about it being gateway, we'll touch on that. There is going to be a lot more states doing it because the tax revenue is so high. They raised $200 million in Colorado. Now, granted it's the beginning of the program.

The fact that fourth graders are selling this stuff. It doesn't surprise me. I mean, when I was in high school, you know, people in elementary school -- they were selling beer. It was inevitable it was going to happen. But the difference is, and here is where I disagree with Greg on this, is that it used to be you could smoke all the dope and it was not a gateway drug.

GUTFELD: Right.

HANNITY: Now, it is so much more powerful.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, it's 1,000 times more powerful, Bob, than it was in the `60s and the `70s when you got introduce to it, right? I mean, seriously --

GUTFELD: I agree.

GUILFOYLE: -- you can't make a blanket assumption and say, OK, well, we're not telling people to go out and shoot guns, but what about accessibility? What about making it that easy?

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: If they're selling it in the fourth grade.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: It's easier to get pot than cigarettes.

GUILFOYLE: Apparently it is.

GUTFELD: Because the dealer will come to your school, you've got to go buy your cigarettes.

GUILFOYLE: But now, the dealers were at the school, Greg, fourth grade. I mean, that's the problem.

GUTFELD: That happened when I was in grade school when it was illegal. This is nothing new, nothing new.

PERINO: What kind of schools did you people go to?

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: What happened to a lemonade stand?

GUTFELD: When something is banned, people will meet that demand in other ways. They become entrepreneurs and they sell. And I know the horror of it being fourth grade is horrible but it's been happening for decades.

BECKEL: They tried to ban "Playboy," we all bought it.

GUTFELD: Yes.

BECKEL: Yes, or we stole it.

PERINO: You didn't buy it.

GUILFOYLE: All right, Bob, this isn't an episode of "True Confessions," although it's interesting, yes.

HANNITY: Bob, that's a whole --

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Yes, right? Voluminous, yes.

HANNITY: I actually think that Greg's side of the argument is winning. And I think you're right because of the tax revenue I think this is going to go state to state to state, obviously not New Jersey.

But I think it's going to get bigger. I think the money is just too much. I don't think government is going to be able to resist it.

Here is my problem with it. I think all the issues about it being a gateway drug, motivation, the people I see smoking pot on a regular basis, they're lacking ambition, they lack motivation. They seem sluggish. I do believe they tend to move on to other things.

When I saw the pictures from 420, I'm thinking, I wouldn't want my kids there.

GUTFELD: Yes.

HANNITY: And I don't think you'd want your kids out there.

GUTFELD: You can't ban something you don't -- just because you don't like it. There are a lot of people who drink who are just violent jerks. You go to a bar and get in a fight with somebody, but that's legal.

HANNITY: That's the "RED EYE" crew at a bar.

GUTFELD: Yes, exactly.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: But here's the distinction. You think Greg and I both imbibed in marijuana, right? He did not go on where I went to, where I went to very hard substances, and some people do and some people don't. It's very difficult to know who's going to do that.

But it doesn't mitigate the fact that they're refining it and making it stuff better and better and better. And when you can do it legally, that means you can cross-pollinate, you can do all kinds of things.

The stuff they're selling, people told in Colorado, is wacko. It's almost like (INAUDIBLE) acid. Acid would take you away apparently. Some of these weeds take you away.

HANNITY: Is there any drug you didn't do?

BECKEL: Not many.

PERINO: Aspirin.

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: By the way -- no, I think it is great because you do -- you even spent all last night and drove six hours to get to the program today because you help people in your spare time overcome addiction. So, I think he is seeing the other side of it.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: But a lot of people end up there, but that's not a statistic. There is a lot of people who don't end up there.

You know, the brain -- Dana, you haven't said anything --

PERINO: No, I'm like a potted marijuana plant.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: Very interested in everything happening.

Can I say something about the governor and the politics of it?

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

PERINO: I think it's a very rigid stand. However, I like a politician that takes a stand and is principled.

GUTFELD: I agree.

PERINO: The other thing is that he's saying he would not legalize it in his state. He doesn't care what other states are going to do. But -- and isn't that what people want? More state control?

So, if New Jersey makes a decision in the future I think that he could have been a little bit more nuanced in that regard.

GUILFOYLE: He's not a nuanced guy.

(CROSSTALK)

HANNITY: -- a little bit with Greg, that the freedom argument -- look, deep down, I'd love to be a libertarian, but there's part of me that can't, because I know it's so harmful.

GUTFELD: I mean, the Second Amendment -- if you're for the Second Amendment, you should be for a pot amendment because they're both inert substances that can't be harmful. Just to use a little bit of science with some weird words. Your brain makes these endogenous cannabinoids, which are basically as what's found in marijuana. These are involved in brain function, in pain, in your memory. There is so much potential for these new therapies that could help -- really, really help people, and we're talking about these powerful, powerful drugs.

But we can't use these substances because we treat them with living entities that they have their own independent power. When in fact they don't, they're inert substances like an empty gun sitting there waiting to be used. And you could use them for good, but we won't because were so terrified.

We don't even know why we banned it. You asked people, why did we start banning marijuana? Most people don't even know why.

BECKEL: You know, the biggest drug problem in this country is the pharmaceuticals, they're putting -- some people are going to abuse Xanax and some people are not. But people who do are OxyContin. I mean, that's stuff literally has taken the lives of a lot of people.

PERINO: Well, you have to go through hoops and show three forms of ID in order to buy Sudafed.

GUTFELD: That's my fault.

BECKEL: Greg has hoarded it all in his basement.

GUILFOYLE: Nevertheless, you can't deny, though, Greg, that recent studies show that it does lead to psychological problems, memory loss, depression, a lot of issues. My concern --

GUTFELD: So does snowboarding.

GUILFOYLE: My concern is having it so accessible to children whose bodies can't even tolerate it at that level.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: By the way, Camilla Parker Bowles' brother died, and hit his head on cement, after a little bit of drinking. So, should we ban sidewalks because they're dangerous? Should we ban snowboarding because that causes head injuries?

PERINO: Can we ban snow?

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: That would be --

GUTFELD: The Canadian rapper?

GUILFOYLE: Can we ban bad weather immediately in New York where it's still freezing?

All right. Next, President Obama -- yes, we're coming for you.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: So why did the White House invite the children of multibillionaires, Bob, to attend a private summit?

BECKEL: I don't know.

GUILFOYLE: Well, you've got to hear this one, and Sean Hannity has the details, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HANNITY: Well, back to "The Five."

It's one of our president's favorite pastimes, that's taking swipes at the rich. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIPS)

BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Donors that we get money from are ordinary Americans, not fat cats.

I did not run for office to be helping out a bunch of -- you know, fat cat bankers on Wall Street.

Our problems always occur when nobody is pay attention, and the fat cats and the lobbyists end up setting the agenda in Washington.

(END VIDEO CLIPS)

HANNITY: Now, the reality is that President Obama has used the so- called fat cats to bankroll his campaign in both 2008 and 2012. And if that wasn't enough, well, now, he is cozying up to some of their kids. Now, last week, the Obama White House held a largely unreported youth summit, not for inner city kids, but for billionaires, their heirs, to great American fortunes, names like, let's see, Rockefeller, Marriott, Pritzker. The supposed purpose of this conference: cultivating the next generation of philanthropy.

Kimberly?

BECKEL: You know, we don't have a host that can read a teleprompter that way.

PERINO: It's true.

HANNITY: All right.

GUILFOYLE: You're a professional, Hannity.

HANNITY: I am here to -- my job is not to screw this show up. You guys are a hit.

GUILFOYLE: So, here's the deal -- somebody set the siren off and called the hypocrisy police.

I mean, come on. You know, I'm fine with your my buddy, you give me a lot of cash -- just be honest about it. Like look at the double standard so quick to criticize the right, but like this is so overt, so in your face. It's just -- it's crazy.

BECKEL: These are mostly kids. They're very young people, who are probably liberals.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: I don't understand what the big deal is. If you got a bunch of liberal kids who got a lot of money, go get after them, get after them.

GUTFELD: Yes, do you know how hard it is to be a child of immense wealth?

GUILFOYLE: Very difficult.

GUTFELD: The landscape is strewn with failures drowning in luxury. And President Obama knows the hardship that these young people have gone through, and he's just trying to help them through it. If he had a son, he would look like...

BECKEL: You're trying to relate to that, aren't you?

GUTFELD: Yes, I am.

But why does it have to be fat cats? Why are we going after the cats? There are fat dogs.

HANNITY: I am so tired of this -- it is endless, as if people -- these are ill-gotten gains. I thought in America we -- we praised people that became successful and wealthy, and our desire was to get the big house, and a nice car, in a nice neighborhood for our kids.

PERINO: Basically what he's done is say our billionaires are better than your billionaires. Everybody is going after the billionaire money, and none of us can deny that.

In politics you have to dance with the one that bought you. And in this case he brought all these people to the White House. But I actually think look at what they're talking about. It's philanthropy.

Bill Gates and Melinda Gates have given most of their fortune away in order to deal with things like school choice in education, and that's actually -- that's not a left/right issue, necessarily. And polio vaccines all around the world.

And so these -- I don't have a problem with this particular issue. I do not think that this event itself was hypocritical.

BECKEL: I don't either.

HANNITY: Did you see the Koch brothers, they bought a $100 million cancer ward in New York City to help people?

BECKEL: I think that is wonderful.

HANNITY: I do, too. And there were people on your side of the aisle out there protesting -- a cancer ward.

BECKEL: They do that -- for the hospital. I think that's wonderful. But they also underwrite virtually every right-wing group in America.

GUILFOYLE: But so what?

HANNITY: So what?

GUILFOYLE: This is America. Give your money where you want. If you want to effectuate change.

BECKEL: Because there would be too many Hannitys around. That's why.

GUILFOYLE: Compromise.

GUTFELD: The lesson is that rich people are evil unless they are a liberal. Because that exonerates you from being wealthy. It's your get- out-of-greed card if you're filthy rich. Just be a liberal, and then no one will bother you. You can make as much money as you want.

PERINO: And then hit yourself (UNINTELLIGIBLE).

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: And then work against everything that your grandfathers founded.

GUTFELD: Well, that's the point, too. Being filthy rich exempts you from the very policies that you enact on others who aren't as rich as you are. So the people that are considered rich by most of America are paying more taxes. But when you're making $100 million, you give $50 million away, it doesn't hurt as much. But everybody else is screwed.

PERINO: The best thing would be if all these kids that have a lot of money, they'll have a lot of capital, if then they will start businesses and fund businesses and really spur economic growth. That would be also a very worthwhile summit to have.

BECKEL: My guess is these are trust-fund babies.

PERINO: Right. But they can invest in businesses.

BECKEL: And you made a good point: a lot of this discussion had nothing to do with politics and had lots to do with different kinds of policy issues.

GUILFOYLE: Why not mix it up?

HANNITY: How about some inner-city kids?

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Why does it have to be one...

HANNITY: I would love to see kids from every city, every small town get their day in the White House, so they can see what they may be able to aspire to.

GUILFOYLE: Right.

HANNITY: And they tour.

PERINO: They do that a lot.

HANNITY: I toured the White House once with a wonderful person.

PERINO: I know.

HANNITY: And...

PERINO: She was amazing.

HANNITY: ... she was amazing. Her name was Dana Perino. And -- but I'll never forget the first time I was in the Oval Office. It...

PERINO: But they've done some really neat things. Remember when they had -- the Obamas had -- it was a great idea. They brought all sorts of kids from all over to a simulated steak dinner. And the president and the first lady came, and I think that they have done some things like that.

GUTFELD: I've often done -- I do a lot of -- I call it tours for teens...

PERINO: OK.

GUTFELD: ... at FOX News. I just show them around the area.

HANNITY: I bet you do.

GUTFELD: I had to stop them.

BECKEL: One thing I would say about that. Parents are still waiting for the Republican Party to start going into the black inner city neighborhoods...

HANNITY: Rand Paul. He did it.

BECKEL: I've given him credit on this show. I think he's gone to Howard.

PERINO: He's not the only one.

BECKEL: Well, Jack Kemp was big on that, but I don't know of any...

HANNITY: Ronald Reagan did it.

PERINO: Who follows in the steps of Jack Kemp? Paul Ryan. What is Paul Ryan called as soon as he talks about doing some important things for that community? He's called a racist. It was outrageous. No wonder people are gun shy about going in.

BECKEL: Who called him a racist?

PERINO: Everyone on the left. You know, you missed this story?

BECKEL: And now you're starting to sound like him.

GUILFOYLE: The whole left.

HANNITY: The whole left.

BECKEL: I didn't.

GUILFOYLE: ... by Gutfeld didn't figure it out.

BECKEL: yes.

GUILFOYLE: He just called him other things.

PERINO: You have to take us out of here.

HANNITY: We have to take a break? Coming up next, all right, these guys, apparently there's a "Five" hazing ritual that I need to go through. When we come back, they have questions for me. I have no idea what it is. But it's "The Five" hazing, so you don't want to miss that. Stick around. Right here on "The Five."

GUILFOYLE: It's the Hannity haze.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: All right, if you watch "Hannity" at 10 p.m. Eastern, you know he has a fun segment called "Ask Sean" where viewers get to ask him anything they'd like. We're going to do our own version of that, what I call "Hazing Hannity."

I wanted to ask you something that we talked a little bit about. What's the No. 1 thing you need to bring to a job interview or to a job. What's the best way to succeed? How unlikely is it you are sitting in this chair today?

HANNITY: It's ridiculously unlikely. Look, I was 12 years old washing dishes. I was a cook at 13, bus boy at 14, a waiter at 15, bartender at 17. And then I was going in and out of school, paying my own way, and I ran out of money. And then I went into construction. I painted houses and I hung wallpaper. I laid tile. I craned houses, did roofing, fell off a roof, two and a half stories.

PERINO: And then you got a hit TV show?

HANNITY: No, I was on ladders listening to talk radio, and I was in love with it ever since I was a teenager. And my parents, they weren't saying, "Turn off the TV." They were saying, "Hey, shut that radio off."

BECKEL: Tell them the story -- tell them the story how you went to Santa Barbara. How did that happen?

HANNITY: Just, look, I was a free spirit. I just kind of decided to drive across country once by myself...

BECKEL: There was an ad -- didn't you read an ad somewhere, there was an ad for radio...

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: ... flowers in your hair?

HANNITY: Well, I started at a college station out there. I was horrible. But everybody at the college station was horrible. It's just like my first time here at FOX, it is so embarrassing. And I got on the air -- I got fired in 40 hours.

But I got fired because of a political disagreement, controversial comments a guest made and I made. And once they took the mike away, I wanted to do this. I really liked it. The light went on, and something just comes flying out of me...

GUTFELD: How did you get fired within 40 hours? Because I've been fired three times.

BECKEL: This is the University of Santa Barbara, California.

GUTFELD: OK.

HANNITY: All his friends.

PERINO: I bet the ACLU defended you.

BECKEL: That's right.

HANNITY: They did up to a point, but because the issue involved gay rights, then they -- they were torn, and they kind of abandoned me at the end.

BECKEL: The -- and then you went to Alabama, right, to some right- wing station, and then the Ku Klux Klan got mad at you, right?

HANNITY: Well, it was -- this was the most bizarre experience. Actually, it turns out it was a friend of my wife, that she and I were the only two normal people both covering this crazy Klan rally, and you know, we were the only two, like, opposing them, saying, "What?" We're both from New York, and I never saw anything like this before. And, like, these people are bizarre. And yes, I did. I took on the grand poobah, had a big fight with him. Yes.

GUTFELD: That's very narrow-minded.

HANNITY: I have the tape somewhere. I've got drag this tape out.

GUILFOYLE: You should.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: What I'd like to hear are the tapes with you and Hosea Williams. Hannity, when he was in Atlanta on radio, he used to have a relationship with the civil rights crowd.

HANNITY: All of them, everyone.

BECKEL: And would go to help them buy turkeys and stuff for Thanksgiving. And Hosea is still a good buddy of yours, right?

HANNITY: Well, Hosea passed away.

BECKEL: That's right.

HANNITY: But guys like Ned (Ph) Jackson, Joseph Lowery, Andy Young, Hosea Williams, and I -- I really got to understand the civil rights movement through those guys. They came on my show all the time. You know, we always disagreed. But they showed amazing courage.

And later, as I got to know you, you and your dad were also involved in that. John Lewis, he had a brick thrown at his head, horrible racism. They did it with non-violence. It was pretty inspiring. Really interesting what I learned.

We would battle and fight and battle and fight over issues, but we still got along.

BECKEL: Did you start as a right-winger? Or was that when you were dropped on your head as a youth?

HANNITY: I'm a conservative. I've been a conservative of all my years in media, and it's not going to change, because I believe. Look what the governors like Scott Walker and Bobby Jindal and Rick Perry and Rick Scott and John Kasich. All those states are working. Deficits becoming surpluses; unemployment going down; jobs are being created.

The only Republicans I'm mad at now are Republicans in Washington.

BECKEL: What did you think of Jindal's response to the State of the Union?

GUILFOYLE: Is this called "Conversations with Bob"?

PERINO: Bob wants to have a segment.

GUILFOYLE: I'm like jumping in, jumping the background.

HANNITY: You know what he did in my house, you all know that?

GUILFOYLE: Did you know what he did in your guest house next door?

GUTFELD: Yes, I know. I called a fumigator.

BECKEL: You have a question?

GUILFOYLE: I have a story if you'd like me to tell it.

PERINO: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: No, I can't tell that story, actually. So -- about Bob. So your radio show actually began the day before 9/11, right?

HANNITY: In syndication.

GUILFOYLE: The syndicated show. And you have more than 500 stations, heard in all the top 50 markets. Your show is No. 2, right? In talk -- talk radio.

HANNITY: Under Rush.

GUILFOYLE: Exactly. Why aren't you beating Rush? I don't understand it.

HANNITY: Because he's Babe Ruth of talk radio. I -- all kudos to him. You know why? Because he opened the door for a lot of us. One of the things...

GUILFOYLE: You filled in for him, in fact.

HANNITY: Yes. And the first day I filled in, five minutes into my opening monologue, it -- he has a real golden microphone. And it fell.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

HANNITY: And it went, bam, like that. And I'm like sweating profusely, because I never spoke to an audience that large.

BECKEL: What's the genesis of your argument with Savage, with Michael Savage? You guys seem to be battling each other all the time.

HANNITY: It's more on his side than mine. I don't even -- I don't even know him. I actually once...

BECKEL: He's crazier than a fruit cake.

PERINO: Do you have any other questions?

GUTFELD: Crazier than a fruit cake.

PERINO: I have one left.

GUTFELD: Go ahead, Dana.

PERINO: You and your wife, I think it's a very inspiring story. You actually -- when my sister and her boyfriend came on that same night when you got a tour of the White House, you asked, "Why aren't you married?" And they had no intention of getting married. They are married now.

And if you had to tell the audience your secrets to a great long- lasting marriage, what are they?

HANNITY: Forgiveness. You've got to be...

PERINO: She has to forgive you a lot?

HANNITY: Thanks a lot, Dana. Well, I mean both sides. I think you've got to grow together. I think as -- as we fought...

GUILFOYLE: You didn't even date very long.

HANNITY: We were engaged in three months, married in six. I mean, for the first years, it was awful. I mean, we were killing each other. Screaming and fighting. We even fought on our honeymoon. We fought the day before our marriage; we fought after our marriage.

And every year it got better and better. We both went to our neutral corners. You find common ground.

GUTFELD: What a beautiful relationship. It started out awful. It started out awful, and then it got less awful. And now we don't talk.

GUILFOYLE: Right, and I think you kind of get the idea, happy wife, happy life. So, you know, come with nice presents.

HANNITY: "Yes, dear" goes a long way.

BECKEL: I'm not sure I hear that.

HANNITY: You watch us. You see us.

BECKEL: Yes, I do. And she usually wins.

PERINO: Well, that is the secret to a good marriage.

GUILFOYLE: I attribute your success, then, in television and on radio, to the nights of sparring with your wife.

BECKEL: Let me tell you, she is...

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: She is one of the nicest, sweetest people. And she's smart, very smart. And she -- you know, she's raising her kids right. She's a great woman. And she could have done a lot better.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. That's terrible.

PERINO: All right, the hazing ends here.

HANNITY: Oh!

PERINO: Coming up a suspect who's about to go on trial for murder has a little problem. Actually, a big one. There's a gigantic tattoo on his neck that says "Murder."

Oh, my gosh. Are you guys kidding me? Now that I rolled this thing, that was a teleprompter problem. We're going to come back and debate about it next.

BECKEL: Are we still on the air?

GUTFELD: Yes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC: NAUGHTY BY NATURE, "O.P.P.") BECKEL: I've got about as much an idea who wrote that song and sings it as -- I mean, it's unbelievable.

Thirty-one-year-old Jeffrey Wade Chapman is about to go on trial for first-degree murder in Kansas, and there's something he doesn't want the jury to see. It's a tattoo on his neck of the word "murder" spelled backwards.

He and his defense team are worried it might prejudice the jurors, and they're trying to have it removed. But they reportedly reached a deal with prosecutors to have him cover it up with a turtleneck. Is this something that the jury should know about?

Kimberly, you've been in front of a lot of juries. Should they know that?

GUILFOYLE: And I'd get it in.

BECKEL: I bet you would.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. Because this is what frustrates me. Like, we're going to perpetuate a fraud on the jury and cover up who he is. He also has a tear drop, which means he's done hard time. He's been in prison. You see that by his eye? They're going to cover that up, too? Probably. Probably, let's act like he's a Boy Scout.

Here's how you get it in with the judge. If it is part of the identification.

I had a guy who was robbed at gunpoint, and he said, "The guy that robbed me had a tattoo on the arm," et cetera. So I said to the judge, "Here we go. We have to have identification. Let's see if we have the right guy. Are we interested in justice?" I made the guy take off his shirt in front of the jury. There was a tattoo. Bye-bye; state prison.

BECKEL: There you go.

All right, Greg, what do you have for us?

GUILFOYLE: Justice! Justice! GUTFELD: Look, I think you got it all wrong, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Of course. I'm undefeated, just so you know.

GUTFELD: No. 1, the teardrop shows the jury how much he hates the word "murder." That's why it's there. No. 2, "murder" is actually spelled backwards, so it's "redrum." You could say he's a fan of the voodoo spiced alcohol, Red Rum.

And clearly, he's innocent, because no murderer would actually tattoo "murder" on their neck. I mean, come on. Let's be serious.

BECKEL: Then you think it's fair that they have a turtleneck to get it covered up?

PERINO: I think that's wrong. I was thinking that if it -- you know, there's a lineup -- I've only seen this on TV. In the lineup where people have to come up, and then the person says, "OK, yes, I think it was that guy." If you have an identifying tattoo, I would assume you're not allowed to cover that up.

BECKEL: Well, having ben in lineups a few times, I can tell you...

GUILFOYLE: You weren't in a lineup.

BECKEL: Yes, I was.

HANNITY: You were in a lineup?

BECKEL: Twice.

HANNITY: You were?

BECKEL: Well, for just various things.

PERINO: Whatever happened to, like, a little tattoo of a butterfly or something?

GUILFOYLE: No, no, no. That's just...

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: What do you think? What do you think? This guy should be allowed to cover it up, or not?

HANNITY: I'm with Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

HANNITY: Why are we going to artificially allow him to manipulate the jury in some ways? Let them see how he is. By the way, and let the facts of the case speak for themselves. But the...

GUILFOYLE: They clean him up. They put him in a suit. They cut the hair, whatever. And by the way, that can interfere with the identification process. If you're like, "OK, I was robbed at nighttime," and you remember seeing part of the guy's neck. Well, he's got his turtleneck on and he's like scrubbed up like some guy in a French beret, hello. You're going to think you've got the wrong guy.

BECKEL: Look at this guy. He could put a turtleneck on, and he still looks like Ted Bundy.

PERINO: How painful must that tattoo have been?

BECKEL: OK. "One More Thing" is up next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: It's time now for "One More Thing." Let's turn it over to Sean.

HANNITY: Hear about the dinner?

GUTFELD: Yes.

HANNITY: Between Wynn, Steve Wynn of the Wynn Hotel and George Clooney?

GUTFELD: Yes.

HANNITY: All right. So Clooney gets drunk on tequila -- tequila shots, and Wynn attacks the president. He says that George Clooney drops the "F" bomb, stormed off. "I said that the president was my long-time friend, and then he said, 'Your friend is an a-hole'."

GUTFELD: Yes.

HANNITY: Got mad, angry. Boom.

PERINO: OK.

HANNITY: Kudos to Steve Wynn today.

BECKEL: I think Clooney's standing up for his friend.

HANNITY: Oh, come on.

GUILFOYLE: I agree.

HANNITY: You call me that every day.

BECKEL: I know. That's your friend.

Who's next?

GUTFELD: Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: OK, Bob. I would like to take some time to say that George Clooney is a really easy-going, likable guy.

BECKEL: That's because you've got a crush on him.

GUILFOYLE: He's incredibly -- no, I don't have a crush. I mean, I know him. He's a nice guy.

GUTFELD: Of course. We get it. He likes you.

GUILFOYLE: No, it's not that. You know what? Stick up for your friends. I'd be mad if somebody said that about you.

Anyway, let's look at some happiness, shall we? Hey, I'm in. I'm in. OK. Chris Colabello hits a big one for his Mama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Chris Colabello comes to the plate, and his parents, Lou and Silvana, here enjoying the game today. And it's Silvana's birthday today. Let's hope Chris gives her a nice present this at bat. Hope so.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Going back is Jennings, and it is gone! Happy birthday, Mom!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: Isn't that the cutest thing you've ever seen? Oh, I want little Rodiggity to hit a home run for me.

GUTFELD: That was totally manufactured.

HANNITY: It will happen.

GUTFELD: They put -- they put the parents in after this. This is so fake.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. It is not. Conspiracy.

GUTFELD: It's like the moon landing, Dana.

PERINO: Yes, they can do that.

GUTFELD: Yes.

PERINO: OK. Do you ever wonder -- ask yourself why...

GUTFELD: I don't ask myself anything.

PERINO: Do you ever ask why America's trust in government is decreasing? Do you ever ask yourself that, Bob? Let me tell you, here's an example.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

PERINO: Tomorrow, the Senate committee -- the Senate committee is going to release a report that was reported in the New York -- I'm sorry, the "Washington Post" today about the inspector general at the Department of Homeland Security, who was apparently very cozy with officials, having drinks with them. Actually altered three reports when Janet Napolitano was homeland security secretary.

And this has Daniel Epstein, Cause of Action executive director, wondering if the attorney general will do anything about it. Listen to him.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANIEL EPSTEIN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, CAUSE OF ACTION: We have a very clear example of a federal taxpayer-funded employee who's engaged -- who's engaged in inappropriate activities and who's clearly violated the law. The Justice Department does nothing. And I think that's a clear signal that essentially, if you work for this administration, you're above the law.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: It is unusual to have inspectors general in this position. But we'll find out more tomorrow.

BECKEL: What the hell was that about?

GUTFELD: That was electrifying, Dana.

PERINO: Well, first of all, because no one's paying attention to anything I say tonight anyways.

BECKEL: No, that's not true.

PERINO: That is true.

BECKEL: On this day in history. On this day in history.

GUILFOYLE: We're talking about Pinada (ph).

BECKEL: Excuse me. On this day in history, in 1800, President John Adams began the Library of Congress. It was then -- it was actually the legislation written by Thomas Jefferson.

The Library of Congress, if you haven't been there, is a phenomenal place. It's got some of the great archives in the United States there. And this is the day that was born some 200-some odd years ago.

PERINO: Did you cover that for The Washington Post?

BECKEL: I did.

GUTFELD: All right. My "One More Thing" is Ronald McDonald just got a new makeover. They got rid of the baggy stuff, and they gave him cargo pants. This is horrible. The last thing you need is a cool clown. Clowns are supposed to be creepy. They're supposed to scare you, make you nervous. Remember the old clown? Remember Willard Scott? He's rolling in his sofa, because he's still alive.

HANNITY: I thought they were supposed to be funny.

GUTFELD: No, no. Clowns are supposed to creep the heck out of you.

GUILFOYLE: No, now he's svelte.

BECKEL: All right. Now what are we supposed to do?

GUTFELD: DVR us!

PERINO: What about the rest?

BECKEL: What about the rest of them?

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