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The Five

Will Census changes obscure the truth about ObamaCare?

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 16, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling, and Greg Gutfeld.

It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."

(MUSIC)

PERINO: After more than two decades, the Census Bureau is significantly changing how it will survey Americans on health care. "The New York Times" is reporting that the changes are so thorough that they could mask the true effects of ObamaCare on insurance coverage.

You might remember back in 2009, the White House shifted control over the census from the Commerce Department to the West Wing. At the time, conservatives like Karl Rove (INAUDIBLE) the move created a dangerous political precedent. Remember this?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KARL ROVE, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: The Census Bureau thing is a very bad thing. For the White House to step in and first time in America's history say that the president of the United States, his chief of staff, is going to have direct oversight and supervision of the census raises questions about its politicization.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: But those concerns were dismissed repeatedly by the administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT GIBBS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president understands the benefit of an accurate and independent census count and I think the American people can be assured that's what they'll get.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You won't politicize the census.

DAVID AXELROD, FORMER SENIOR WHITE HOUSE ADVISOR: Absolutely not.
Absolutely not. We are interested in the best census ever and a census that reflects as accurately as possible the true population of this country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

PERINO: So, Greg, were conservatives wrong to be paranoid?

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: Census, more like non-census. Am I right America? Look, this is purely a coincidence. Surely, the census wouldn't change its questions to help Obama. I mean, a government agency trying to preserve government power. The next thing you're going to tell me is the IRS targeted groups or the media pushed off news on Benghazi so Obama would be reelected.

This is about as intentional as a moon landing. They didn't cook the books for Obama. They actually nuked them.

PERINO: And why, Eric, why did it matter to policymakers who are trying to make decisions or business decisions? Why would something like this matter if the census professionals think they need to change the questions so they are more accurate, why not do it?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: Because you can get the result you want based on how you asked the question. Bob is a big pollster. He knows exactly how to get the result he wants right from the very beginning or at least skew it as much as you can.

So, they skew the books, they cook the books on that, they cook the books on who's paid, they cook the books on who is young who's signing up, they cook the books on who's Medicaid versus an actual enrollee. They cook the books on everything and the audacity of the political chicanery that got going on, the only loser ask why it matters is American people.
American people at the end of the day are paying so much more money, and we haven't talk about.

When all is said and done, I'm not sure if it's done or not, if someone is going to have to pay for all those Medicaid recipients, and the few people who signed up, they're certainly not going to be able to pay for that. So, what do you do? You have to write the check.

The Treasury Department is going to have to write the check to pay for all those health care costs that run through ObamaCare. That's why it matters.

PERINO: Bob, it's unusual for the counsel on the economic advisers that the White House to actually meddle with and create questions for the census to ask. I mean, does that cross a line in your world?

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Well, first of all, I'm amazed how many cooks there are in the White House that Eric refers to. They must be working overtime. This issue has gone back, the question about insurance -- a number of other questions about the census have gone back and been debated for years and years well before Obama was in office.

This issue about insurance people who re insured and uninsured goes before Obama was in office. I think the idea that the census would be on the Commerce Department, originally, it was meant to be there because it was used exactly for that, for business purposes. If they had a much more widespread use, and the Office of Management and Budget would be the proper base to write it off and that's what it should be.

PERINO: OK. Let me ask, Kimberly, on this issue. In particularly, there's the census, one of the things that we argue in the lead-up to ObamaCare, was about the 40 million to 45 million people that were uninsured that will then all of a sudden get insurance because of ObamaCare implementation. That's actually the number that apparently were never actually going to be able to determine with specifics. And the White House says that's not exactly true.

But I think that there's enough concern here for -- that's warranted on the merits.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: I think you are absolutely right and they should be concerned actually. The concern shouldn't be coming from the outside. It should be come from within. And they should be invested in making sure that they get numbers that are accurate, that can be helpful for the future of this country, so they were not trying to play games, especially where finances are concerned because we will pay the price later on, and that's what's most disconcerting --

PERINO: Yes, and actually the numbers --

GUILFOYLE: The cause from this administration to worry about them.

PERINO: And apples to apples comparison actually could end up working in their favor, actually. I mean, I think it's unlikely but it could.

BECKEL: What was your assumption that it was right to begin with?

BOLLING: May I?

BECKEL: Yes, please.

BOLLING: President Obama went to the American people and said this will not cost one single dime, will not add one single dime to the deficit.

GUILFOYLE: Back it up.

BOLLING: Do you remember that? Well, the latest numbers are almost
$2 trillion over ten years. That sounds like more than one single dime.

BECKEL: Didn't the CBO just come out and -- 

BOLLING: Yes, they dropped it from $1.8 trillion, the $1.7 trillion -
-

BECKEL: Aren't the insurance companies very happy with ObamaCare?

BOLLING: That, I don't know about, that I'm not so sure. I know the American people can't be thrilled about $2 trillion.

BECKEL: Well, we have to look on the road 10 years and find if this cost them more money.

GUTFELD: But you can't.

PERINO: That's the point, Bob. They're changing --

GUTFELD: The Census is helping to bury the rotting corpse of ObamaCare and the media will be the accessory to this by saying, oh, there's nothing to see here. This is the only way government can win is by obliterating any metrics for success. If you can't keep score, there's no way you can lose.

PERINO: That's true. OK.

Let's do a second topic that's ObamaCare-related. So, last week, we talk about the resignation of Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius. She's from Kansas. There's rumors today that she actually might decide to run for Senate there.

Bob, I think that's probably unlikely. You are closely to the Democrats, what do you think?

BECKEL: I think it's -- thinking about it. It's a pipe dream. Her favorability there is 35 percent --

PERINO: She did win. She was a governor --

BECKEL: She was the governor. Let's remember, there hasn't been a Democratic senator in that state for four decades.

GUILFOYLE: What have you done for me lately? Oh, I'm sorry, destroy the world. I mean, she's not exactly. If Roberts were to get upset, who's the incumbent senator, get upset by a Tea Party candidate, she can't wait for that to happen because she has to file before it happens. I can't imagine it's true.

PERINO: Eric, is this a good example of how ObamaCare is actually affecting Democrats and might affect the 2014 races and maybe even all the way to 2016?

BOLLING: I think what she's doing is she got asked to leave, she's saying, you know what, OK, fine, I'm going to leave. I'm going to run for the Senate. Every Democratic is going now, oh, no, Kathleen Sebelius is going to run for the Senate.

Let me guess -- everything. She's going to ObamaCare right to the table.

GUILFOYLE: She's an albatross. She's going to bring everybody down with her.

BOLLING: The single race is going to be about ObamaCare again, and that's what they don't want. They thought they got a win with the 7.1 million enrollees. And they were hoping that would just go away.

What she did -- look what we're talking about.
PERINO: Yes, it's back on the front page.

Would you encourage her to run in Kansas?

GUTFELD: Yes, because she's got such an amazing personal. She just glows.

No, Sebelius is Irish for incompetent so bad --

GUILFOYLE: Hey!

GUTFELD: -- you should seek shelter immediately. She's not a politician. She's a tornado of stoic failure.

It makes -- it raises the question, what does it take to be considered not eligible for politics? We need a term called the Sebelius curve. If you actually approach her level of idiocy, you get a resort. You get beach front property in Boca Raton. And we just make sure you're in constant --

PERINO: OK. But is she getting more heat than they deserves, because she didn't write ObamaCare. That was President Obama and Speaker Pelosi.
I mean, she was an implementer of what turned out to be --

GUILFOYLE: Of disaster. I mean, she's like her own hurricane, right, contain in one body. Problem is, Bob, this was her job. She was supposed to oversee it. It was supposed to be ready for prime time. So, it does rest on her shoulders. That was her job description.

So, now, if you want to reward failure again, which seems to be like sort of the fun, weird thing to do these days -- go ahead. In my opinion, run, Forrest, run. Run, Kathy.

BECKEL: The problem with you anti-ObamaCare people is that you are bearing it already. As if there's no chance of being successful, when every day, there's more evidence that it is.

But let me tell you why she should not run in that state. There's a good chance that the Democrats could get the governor's mansion back. If she's on the ballot, that's not going to be a drag, no question.

GUILFOYLE: It's not going to happen.

PERINO: And why, Bob?

BOLLING: Why? Exactly.

PERINO: Because it would make it a national race.

BECKEL: Look, I've said this from the beginning, I think there will be an effective ObamaCare. I don't think it's going to be a disaster like you think. But I think it will matter by three or four points, and it could drag on the ticket.

BOLLING: Where -- you said she didn't -- by the way, your premise was, well, she didn't really write it. So she was only really responsible for implementing it.

PERINO: Right.

BOLLING: And she bungled that amazingly. $700 million and they signed up less than 2 million people. If that's what you need to do to become a U.S. senator, boy, there are a lot of conservatives that shouldn't be in the running.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: I think it was a trial balloon. I don't think it's real.

GUTFELD: The trial balloon was a Hindenburg.

PERINO: And it's going to come crashing down.

BECKEL: That was very good, Greg.

GUTFELD: There you go.

PERINO: I get it.

All right. We're going to move on. Next on "The Five," the Red Hot Chili Peppers may have helped fight the war on terror. But one of the band members wasn't happy when he found out about that and Greg is going to tell you why, coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUTFELD: So, last week, awful singer Cat Stevens made it into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. I know it's like inducting Ex Lax into the chocolate hall of fame.

Now, Stevens became Yusuf Islam in 1978 after converting to his last name and the hall of fame praised change, writing, quote, "Who can measure the courage it took him in the late `70s to convert to Islam, amidst the wave of turmoil and confusion engulfing the world?"

Yes, who could measure the courage of filing out paperwork at a courthouse? More important, Mr. Islam is not only known for music that drives birds to suicide, but also for endorsing a fatwa on Salman Rushdie after a price was put on his head for writing a book critical of Islam.
The ayatollah wanted Rushdie dead and Cat heard his approval.

So, while Brandeis University denies Hirsi Ali a degree, someone who stands up to death threats, the Hall of Frame praises a fool who endorsed them. So, in the fan house mirror called Islamophobia, we shame the victim, not the victimizer.

If you ask me what's worse, Cat's beliefs or his music -- I'd say both. One wants you dead, the other when played makes you wish you were dead.

Lastly, it was reported Red Hot Chili Peppers music, if you can call it that, was used to torture detainees held by the CIA, and Flea, their bassist, is furious, saying, "Anything we can do to stop that, we will." I hope that means retirement.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: So if you -- what kind of music would you choose to torture somebody with?

GUILFOYLE: Well, if Red Hot Chili Peppers works. I'm all for it.

GUTFELD: They should be proud they are helping their country.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. I mean, I enjoy their music. So that's great. But apparently detainees or bad guys don't.

PERINO: If terrorists don't like your music, that should be a good thing. I'd be celebrating.

GUTFELD: It's like a good housekeeping seal from terrorists.

GUILFOYLE: It's like good versus evil. We're the good guys. We've got to give music and it irritates the bad guys.

GUTFELD: I know, Eric, this hits you hard. You are a Red Hot Chili Peppers fan.

BOLLIG: Big fan. Yes.

Instead, I would -- I agree with this list of other bands that would torture terrorists, anything by Barry Manilow. I agree that. What's the Barney?

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: The Dinosaur (ph)?

BOLLING: Yes, The Dinosaur.

BECKEL: He should have been shot a long time ago.

BOLLING: The Beatles, if I was in jail and they said, torture Bolling, just play Beatles music --

GUILFOYLE: Can I second that?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Beatles are the one of the most brilliant bands ever.

BOLLING: The Beatles were now, it would be like One Direction and you would hate it.

GUTFELD: No, that's not true.

BOLLING: Absolutely true.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: You're going with their first two or three songs, you don't take into account the white out, great the whole time. And I don't know nothing about music.

You know, I would not -- like torture with, opera or any rap music.

PERINO: Also and heavy metal for me.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Heavy metal is the most honest music on the planet.

PERINO: I would spill the beans in half a second if they started playing heavy metal.

GUTFELD: Spill the beans of euphemism.

Anyway, I would pick Sting. I love the Police but I hate Sting.

PERINO: Isn't that weird?

GUTFELD: Yes, it is weird.

PERINO: And you can't take the Sting out of the Police.

BECKEL: Associated with Sting, the Police?

GUTFELD: But he was in the Police, Bob.

GUILFOYLE: Why don't they just play like Justin Bieber?

PERINO: That would do it.

GUILFOYLE: He's annoying.

GUTFELD: So, let's talk a bit about Yusuf Islam. Should the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, Kimberly, have included him, even though he's kind of distanced himself with fatwa --

PERINO: Right, right.

GUTFELD: He's nicer now.

GUILFOYLE: He's less vocal, he's a milder meeker person at this point. But, you know what? You can't degrade his ability or talent or influence on music. So, I would like to think as a free thinking country that you can have somebody put in the Hall of Fame based on merits regardless of their personal beliefs. How is that answer?

GUTFELD: That's pretty good diplomatic answer, although, Cat Stevens music is terrible.

PERINO: I can't name a single song. Sorry.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: It's what you played on a date to get a girl to make out with you.

PERINO: I never did that. So, that's why I don't know.

(CROSSTALK)

GUILFOYLE: Oh my God. Really?

PERINO: Wow. Learn something every day on "The Five" about our co- hosts.

GUILFOYLE: Bolling is loving living in the past.

GUTFELD: I think you are thinking about Harry Chapin?

BECKEL: That's right. Sorry.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: Is he a Muslim?

GUTFELD: No, I think he's dead.

BECKEL: Oh, he is? Oh, sorry to hear that.

PERINO: To your point, conservatives who complain that people like Ali or Condi Rice when Rutgers were complaining about her going to the university, conservatives who complain that should not complain about Cat Stevens getting an award. Like if they want to give him an award? Great.
I mean, it's like he actually has hurt anybody.

GUTFELD: Why would you give up a name like Cat Stevens?

PERINO: No kidding.

BECKEL: Why do you get a name like Cat Stevens?

GUTFELD: To a similar topic, the New York Police Department disbanded a special unit made to detect terror threats in the Muslim communities.

Eric, I happen to think it's a casualty of Islamophobia-phobia.

BOLLING: Probably.

GUTFELD: People don't want to be smeared as bigoted, so they got rid of the program. Do we even know that it didn't work? I don't know.

BOLLING: Well, remember the whole -- you know, the whole thing going back and forth between the NYPD and New Jersey and the FBI was trying to get involved and all that. So, they decided it was probably just not worth the negative PR and I'm sure CAIR was right there leading the charge to get rid of them and cheering that decision all along.

Regarding that, listen, I'm very much pro-Fourth Amendment. But when you have a threat to Americans, these groups are threatening Americans and have killed a lot of Americans -- I'm all for it, tap it, listen to it, and see what they're talking about, even if you don't have a singular threat, find out, take a broader cloth -- broader net and grab a bunch.

BECKEL: I was against this project when I first heard about it a year ago. I changed my opinion on it.

Just too many -- based on the fact that there's 15 million Muslims here on student visa that never showed up to college, that's enough for me.

GUTFELD: De Blasio had something to say about this program. Do we have some kind of quote that I can read off the teleprompter?

"This reform is a critical step forward in easing tensions." I hate the phrase easing tensions.

PERINO: He didn't say that, though.

GUTFELD: That means -- what?

PERINO: I was saying he didn't say he hates the phrase easing tension.

GUTFELD: Oh, I hate it. Easing tensions is a means translate into appeasing P.C. -- sorry I lost my way.

"In easing tensions between the police and the communities they serve, so the cops," they are called police, "and our citizens can help one another go after the real bad guys."

GUILFOYLE: They are afraid of the real bad guys. He doesn't know what he's talking about because he doesn't have any experience whatsoever in this community policing and what they do with this program.

But good luck, let's see how this turns out. The only vote of confidence I can say is Bill Bratton who is a tremendous --

GUTFELD: Good guy.

GUILFOYLE: Good guy, great job --

PERINO: But he just caved.

GUILFOYLE: -- in Los Angeles. No, but the point is he's going to be overseeing the department in general. Perhaps they don't do it under the guise of this organization or group of 28 team members. Perhaps they will do it under a different group. In some other way, they will look for leads like this. I'm confident it's not going to be undetected.

PERINO: I think it's very strange that the New York Police Department decided to announce this yesterday, which was the anniversary of Boston marathon bombing.

(CROSSTALK)

PERINO: It has no sense. And I also think that we won't know the implications of this for many, many years and it will be too late.

BOLLING: Unless the FBI said, we'll take care of this. We got this.
Remember there was an issue between the FBI and the NYPD.

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: I feel like the NYPD should be in charge because they know the community better.

GUILFOYLE: They are closer to it. That's the point, because community policing and on target, but just so you know, your friends at the NSA are watching you. So they are doing it too.

BECKEL: If you believe as I do that the next serious attack on the United States is from people who are already here, then we talk about that other day that more than likely you have terrorists here that are getting influenced here to do their job, then I think that makes all the more reason to look into it.

GUTFELD: By the way, the police don't like those details. I mean, hanging out in community centers all day and mosques.

BECKEL: And having to eat lamb.

GUTFELD: Yes. I hate lamb.

BECKEL: I do, too.

GUILFOYLE: I love lamb. I always have it on my birthday.

GUTFELD: Yes, the smell of lamb.

GUIFOYLE: Why don't you?

BECKEL: You eat chickpeas?

GUTFELD: I don't mind chickpeas.

BECKEL: Really?

PERINO: Bob, chickpeas, you mean hummus?

BECKEL: Hummus, yes, I like hummus.

BOLLING: I think it's made out of chickpeas.

PERINO: It is.

GUTFELD: We are expert in music and in food.

GUILFOYLE: And in cultural sensitivity.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: Grape leaves.

GUTFELD: There you go.

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Eric, have you ever --

GUILFOYLE: You are talking about Greek food now.

BECKEL: Oh, I am?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Have you ever heard Anthony Kiedis order a sandwich?

BOLLING: How's he's doing, Greg?

GUTFELD: Mayo, and tomato, and pimento.

BECKEL: Who's that?

(CROSSTALK)

GUTFELD: Coming up, Michael Bloomberg, $50 million.

What is the name of that song?

BOLLING: "Snow."

GUTFELD: "Snow"? See, I wouldn't know because I'm a Faith No More fan.

PERINO: I just got it.

BECKEL: Faith No More what.

GUTFELD: All right. Bloomberg's $50 million war against the NRA and he thinks it will get him into heaven. Can you believe that? We'll talk, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BOLLING: Former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg likes to take things away from people, Big Gulps, cigarettes, and guess what? Now, guns. The billionaire just announced he is taking $50 million out of his own bank account to create a gun control network to out-muscle the NRA.

Here's Bloomy with more on his plan.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL BLOOMBERG, FORMER NYC MAYOR: This is not a battle of dollars.
This is a battle for the hearts and minds of America so that we can protect our children, protect innocent people.

It isn't gun control. This is simply making sure that people should no be allowed to buy a gun -- criminals, minors, people with psychiatric problems -- make sure they can't buy guns. Nobody is going to take anybody's gun away, nobody is going to keep you from hunting or target practice or protecting yourself. It's just making sure that a handful of people who we all agree shouldn't have guns don't get their hands on it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLLING: Look, I'm all for, K.G. --

GUILFOYLE: Yes.

BOLLING: -- it's your money, he earned it. He made himself. Spend the way you like.

But the difference when a guy like David Koch does it, he's villainized. He's un-American. Bloomberg does it, everyone said, oh, great job mayor. Thank you.

GUILFOYLE: All right. Well, let's see. I think his heart is the right place, but is he putting his money in the right spot? Because the rules and laws already on the books, OK, to prevent people from getting guns from getting them.

But as we well know, if you want to get a gun, you're going to find a way to go around the law, go around the rules and break them and find a way to get a weapon. So I'm not sure that his $50 million is best spent in this direction. I can think of a lot of other ways he could use it.

BOLLING: Bobby, you are shaking your head.

BECKEL: Well, first of all, I applaud the mayor for doing this. And by the way, I said 15 million students, it's just 15,000. I apologize for that.

But then, again, I'm --

(LAUGHTER)

GUTFELD: That's a small -- three zeros.

GUILFOYLE: Why did you even bring it up?

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: It's a lot of students (ph) out there, man. Come on.

Look, I think what Bloomberg is talking about here. He's not trying to take people's away, but trying to keep the hands out of people who shouldn't have them. In fact, they don't have laws, for example, in Virginia. If you have psychiatric problems, there's no law that says you can't buy a gun. Witness what happened at Virginia Tech when all those people were killed by that fruitcake who bought guns legally. The other thing is, NRA needs some competition.

(CROSSTALK)

BECKEL: I know they -- I said he was Canadian, I know you changed my opinion on that slightly, but I would like to see a birth certificate, if I could.

BOLLING: Dana, I'm pretty sure Bob is not exactly right.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, really?

BOLLING: Not only talking about this 15,000, and 15 million Muslims.

PERINO: Yes...

BOLLING: Here's the thing. What's the (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

PERINO: Well, Merina (ph) said there's a lot of P.R. consultants right now who are very excited, thinking they're going to keep their hands on $50 million so that they can keep their pyramid schemes going.

He made the money. He inherited the money. He earned the money. He wants to spend it all the time. Absolutely fine.

But if Harry Reid is going to go to the floor of the Senate and 150 say times how un-American it is for someone to spend their personal hard- earned dollars on a public policy issue that they care about? That's what they did with the Koch brothers. But maybe this is an issue they can get behind.

I don't know if it's great for red-state Democrats, actually, especially in 2014 for this issue to be on the forefront. But that might be what he's deciding to do.

If I had that much money, I would spend it differently. I would focus on veterans, especially those with PTSD, and I'd also maybe do something that Bloomberg could do it well, something for the long-term unemployed.

BOLLING: Or education. You haven't said education.

PERINO: I'd let other people do education.

BOLLING: You want to do this? You want to do what he said later?

GUTFELD: He -- he took his security police detail with him after leaving his job. He doesn't need a gun when he has that kind of detail packing for him. He's like a nudist accusing you of exhibitionism. He lives in a gun bubble. He's surrounded by guns. His life is not a gun- free zone, but he wants yours to be.

The problem with him is the more the facts undermine, the more money he throws at it. You know, gun -- John Lott (ph) got this statistic. Gun control groups outspend gun rights groups 7 to 1 on TV ads. But they never work. It's because they're up against facts, that gun violence is declining in the areas they say are increasing. And a lot of it has to do with...

BECKEL: It has been -- quickly point out that the people on this committee with him are Tom Ridge, who was homeland security adviser under George W. Bush, and Admiral Mike Mullen, who was the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff under Bush. So I mean, this is not a bunch of fruit cakes out here, trying to take away your guns.

GUTFELD: But this is about he -- this is about the NRA to him. He's outspending the NRA like 2 to 1. Right? The NRA doesn't have a budget like he does.

BECKEL: Oh, yes.

GUTFELD: No, it's true. I'm just thinking about numbers.

BOLLING: I think we have -- we have a full screen, I'm going to put up. I think this is probably a lot of the motivation right here.
Bloomberg says, quote, "If there is a God when I get to heaven, I'm not stopping to be interviewed. I'm heading straight in. I have earned my place in heaven. It's not even close."

GUILFOYLE: That is so wow.

BOLLING: The guy has got something like $30 billion. It seems to me like he's trying to, you know, shore up his legacy.

GUILFOYLE: Look, maybe he'll get into heaven, one of the things they look for in the checklist, is are you bragging about getting into heaven?
I just would never say that. That would be so -- what?

GUTFELD: You're talking about a club in the Village.

BOLLING: The Heaven Club.

GUTFELD: It's really hard to get into.

BOLLING: Straight?

GUTFELD: Yes, straight. It's really hard to get into. So I think just you know...

PERINO: You just walk right in.

BECKEL: Well...

GUILFOYLE: Well, you know what...

BECKEL: It's weird that he would say it. Here's the thing that gets me about it. If he's going to do that and says that, if there is a God, I'm not sure if you should be talking about heaven if you don't believe there is a God.

GUILFOYLE: And then say you're getting in. It's just weird.

A lot of you people say around the table, it's weird.

BOLLING: I thought you were not supposed to mix religion and politics.

PERINO: Well, I wouldn't. I found this odd. I found they had a wonderful rollout. He sounds perfectly reasonable on the show. Most people are going to agree with it. And then he just has to go that one step further, you know, like that just one more thing, and then he says that, and it makes everybody go, "What in the world?"

GUILFOYLE: You know why? You don't talk past the sale?

PERINO: Exactly.

GUILFOYLE: Don't -- don't ever.

GUTFELD: I have to give him credit for one thing. He's consistent.
He's consistent in the sense that he's not just going -- and he's not going after the NRA, which I -- you know, criticized. He also was for stop and frisk, so he has adapted his anti -- he's adapted his anti-gun stance in most areas, where he's not cherry-picking the way a lot of people do. I have to give him credit.

BOLLING: Can I have one of those little sayings?

GUILFOYLE: Sure.

BOLLING: You never hear about a mass shooting at a gun show.

All right next. It's one of the biggest crime stories of the century.
A studio is supporting -- they want to tell a story of -- of the serial killer Sherman Gosnell. "Justify" actor Nick Searcy wants to stop by and tell us why. If I ever get that out.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GUILFOYLE: He is one of the world's biggest serial killers. Abortion doctor Kermit Gosnell ran a house of horrors in Philadelphia. He was convicted last year of murdering babies born alive.

Three filmmakers now want to tell his story, but they're not getting a lot of help from Hollywood to put it on the screen, except for some brave actors like "Justified's" Nick Searcy, who are stepping out to lend their support.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NICK SEARCY, ACTOR: I'm international film and television star Nick Searcy, but you knew that. You may not have heard of Kermit Gosnell, but he is the most prolific serial killer in American history. He killed hundreds of babies, perhaps thousands, in a 30-year killing spree. That's why I'm so glad that my friends Anne Falon (ph) and Magdalena are making this film. They're journalists and filmmakers, and their movie will tell the actual facts of the case without apology. Facts have no agenda.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GUILFOYLE: As you know, I did cover this -- the case and the story for "The Five" here and sitting in at the trial, so this is something I speak of from personal experience, having witnessed these horrors up on the screen and the testimony from the medical examiner.

So I think it's, you know, an important film, and you have also Kevin Sorbo, actor, who made a YouTube video about it, talking about the film.
They've raised $829,695 with a grand total of $2,100,000 that they're trying to do.

So it's just interesting, because the world of Hollywood, will they be receptive? This is supposed to be made as a television film, to get the story out. At the time, we were one of few places that was actually covering it, Dana, and you saw this story was being talked about. Because they were trying to make this story about our country (ph).

PERINO: So you were down there, and I remember FOX covered it, and then eventually some in the mainstream media tried to cover it. And I understand, it is a very hard story to tell. It's not necessarily something that I would want to run out and go and see, but I do admire people who want to try to get this story out there.

So there's a way to raise money for things on Web, like Kickstarter.
Kickstarter was where they first went to to get the funding. They felt that they were being censored by Kickstarter, so they left that, and they went to something else, called Indiegogo, where they're actually able to try to raise money.

I think Hollywood does a lot of movies about all sorts of things that are based in reality. This is a story I think that we as Americans need to face up to and to witness.

GUILFOYLE: Yes. And we're one of the few to cover it, as we said, and then do the documentary, as well, Eric. FOX News covered it and went through all the detail and spoke to witnesses to bring it to life.

BOLLING: I'm just going to throw this. Look, I -- it's a tough subject to cover. It's a hard subject to put on film, I'm guessing. I think it needs -- this story needs to be told, but that said, I think -- I think that's exactly the way you do it. It's called crowdfunding, and you just put it out there, and people come and they donate. They believe in the cause. They donate money. There are a couple of other movies with a similar type of, you know...

PERINO: Funding mechanism.

BOLLING: But also the -- the editorial on it is so intense that movie studios tend to stay away. Great way to do -- to make a movie though if they are staying away.

GUTFELD: The thing is, I mean, it is a brutal topic, but so was Idi Amin. So is Rwanda. So is the Holocaust. Hollywood has made movies that involved all of those topics.

The reason why they don't do this is, it's not because the evil is so grotesque. It's that it's too close to a moral choice they've made.
That's what it's about. It's not that it's so hard to do something on this man who butchered babies. It's because it's too close to the pro-choice mindset. Not to say that the big pro-choice people are for this, but it rubs people the wrong way when they hear this. That's my feeling.

BECKEL: I had a hard time believing it's that much mixed up in politics. I think that it's a business decision. I mean, who -- how many people would actually go and see this?

GUTFELD: It's a fair point. It's...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, it's going to be on TV.

GUTFELD: But you have documentaries about capitalism and the Second Amendment and corporations. Michael Moore has made a living exposing these things. Why can't you do this?

PERINO: Well, the great things is it's competition, right? So now that there's not -- you don't -- you have more options as a filmmaker and also as a consumer. You have lots more choice, and you have a lot of different ways to try to get your stories told. That's a great thing.

BECKEL: I'm for that. The center stage is to have to be the operating room. That would be the only place you'd -- you have to tell a story, you have to tell it that way. I just think...

GUTFELD: The only time -- and maybe I'm wrong, but the only time an abortion doctor has been in a movie it's been in a favorable way, from what I can remember.

PERINO: And they being the ones being targeted.

GUTFELD: Yes.

GUILFOYLE: The point is, it's important to get both sides out there.
And so people should inform themselves and understand exactly what's involved in the process and especially at what stage and gestational age.
I think a lot of people are educated that were in that courtroom. People had long-held beliefs had a change of heart after seeing some of the horrors that were committed.

BOLLING: Wasn't -- wasn't there a film made about the guy that was killing abortion doctors?

BECKEL: Yes.

BOLLING: I think there was. So when it goes that way, they're...

PERINO: They figure they'll make the money. You don't have to go -- you don't have to crowdfund in order to get something like that done. And I admire Nick Searcy for stepping up and...

BECKEL: Yes, I do, too.

GUILFOYLE: And Kevin Sorbo, you're my buddy.

All right. Still ahead, should alcohol should be allowed at gun ranges? Well, one shooting range in Oklahoma just applied for a liquor
license, and Bob has got some thoughts about that next. Stay with us. 

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(MUSIC: "Drinking beer, wasted bullet...")

BECKEL: That's an appropriate song for this block.

In my favorite state of Oklahoma, a shooting range is trying to get a liquor license to serve alcohol on site, mixing guns and booze. What could go wrong with that, except a few people dying? Apparently nothing, according to co-owner Jeff Swanson, because he claims the two won't ever mix. Go ahead, Jeff. Prove us that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEFF SWANSON, CO-OWNER, WILSHIRE GUNS: As a group, we wanted to build a place, the first one in Oklahoma, where you can come in, shoot, enjoy the retail area, and then go to the cafe.

Any misconceptions or joking aside, beer and bullets, guns and alcohol, they do not mix. Once you order a drink, your driver's license is scanned and you are red-flagged, and you're not allowed into any of the shooting facilities, even as a spectator, and certainly not as a shooter for the remainder of the day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: Only -- only in Oklahoma.

GUILFOYLE: You know what, Bob? There you go.

BECKEL: But there are nice people in Oklahoma.

GUILFOYLE: I know there are.

BECKEL: But are you kidding me? Maybe he thinks he'll make a lot of profit, because people who have guns drink a lot. I don't know. I don't think that's necessarily true. But can you believe he's doing this?
You're a big pro-business guy.

BOLLING: I've a pro-business guy. Also, I'm a pro-gun guy. I spend a lot of time at the gun range, and I like to drink.

GUILFOYLE: Vodka.

BOLLING: And I don't think there's a problem here.

BECKEL: Well, now there's an idea. You have the gun and the vodka.

BOLLING: Let me explain something, the safest place -- anywhere there is a gun, the safest place, it is in a gun range. If you're going to have a gun, be in the gun range. There's security around. There's more -- I would venture nothing bad is going to happen.

Now, if someone brings a gun into a bar where it's a completely different environment and surroundings, that may not be a good idea.

BECKEL: They're allowed to do that in gun states like Texas.

BOLLING: You're allowed to do that.

BECKEL: You can take a gun into a bar. That makes a lot of sense.

PERINO: But it's his business, so he is going -- they are going to be highly motivated to make sure that it works, and I think the private sector does a good job on that.

What I don't understand is people who, let's just say you're for legalization of marijuana in one state, like Colorado. What's wrong with this guy, suggesting that there would be controls on a new way for him to grow his business?

BECKEL: Because if they were smoking dope and they had guns, they probably wouldn't use them.

PERINO: Right.

GUILFOYLE: There's a bias -- there's a bias for pot smokers.

BECKEL: Let me just ask you. This is a little strange.

GUTFELD: Here in Oklahoma, they're introducing alcohol at the gun range, where in other places, they're introducing guns in bars. That's called Chicago.

Look, he's saying it's separate. You have a -- you're scanned.
You're not allowed -- in fact when you go to places like Malibu Grand Prix, where you can race cars, you can go there and then afterwards you can have beer. And you don't mix the two. It's not like a bowling alley.

GUILFOYLE: Like a break room or something?

GUTFELD: Yes. This is basically what I would call redneck chum for northern folk who like to rag on the south.

GUILFOYLE: Uh-huh.

BOLLING: You know any of those?

GUTFELD: Yes. There's one here.

GUILFOYLE: I think it's called...

(CROSSTALK)

BOLLING: What do you think?

BECKEL: I don't. I was just part of the old comparison.

GUILFOYLE: I think that this is a little bit of a dangerous, you know, proposition. All right?

BECKEL: Good for you.

GUILFOYLE: I'm just going to say that.

PERINO: But like, I actually think that it's a safer proposition than what people are probably doing when it's not allowed.

GUILFOYLE: Are you saying because it's regulated?

BECKEL: What about these gun-nut legislators who pass guns in Texas so you can carry a gun into a bar?

BOLLING: Well, and that's -- the point I was trying to make at the beginning is it's a bar; it's a social atmosphere. A lot of guys go there to meet women and someone else is meeting your woman and you get mad. I mean, the bar is a place where there are a lot of fights.

This is different. This is a gun range. You go there to practice your target. You practice shooting your weapon.

PERINO: And afterwards you're going to have a couple beers.

BOLLING: And you can also have a beer.

BECKEL: Off the set, I'm going to tell you how close this story just came in my previous life.

GUILFOYLE: You mean this life?

PERINO: Is that how you hurt your hand?

BECKEL: No, no. It was angry husbands and guns in bars.

All right. Anybody else have anything else to say about this topic?
Also in the great state in Oklahoma, do I have enough time for this? OK.
Good.

The great state of Oklahoma, the governor, the legislator wants to pass a law that said you can't raise minimum wage in your own city if you want to. And various cities in Oklahoma are talking about raising the minimum wage, which makes some sense. This governor, Fallin...

PERINO: How sexist. And racist of you. Right? How is anybody going to criticize this Republican woman governor? How dare a liberal would do that?

I'm just doing what liberals -- I'm just doing what liberals do to conservatives.

BECKEL: I was just wondering if you were just trying to (UNINTELLIGIBLE). Because if you were, I'm out of here.

GUILFOYLE: You confuse my poor Ricky Bobby.

PERINO: That's what liberals do to conservatives. You just start calling people names.

BECKEL: You think -- I'm not calling names.

PERINO: I think she's an excellent governor, and there's a reason that Oklahoma has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country.

GUILFOYLE: Let me tell you something. Dana was teasing you.

BECKEL: All of these people for states' rights and local rights, if a locality wants to raise the minimum wage, so what?

PERINO: And if they want to serve beer at their gun range, so what?

BOLLING: No, no, you're making your own statement. Your own case.
Yes, states' rights. She is the governor of a state. They choose not to have a -- raise the minimum wage.

GUILFOYLE: But it should be at the state level.

BOLLING: We agree. Thank you.

GUILFOYLE: They should decide.

GUTFELD: I just say the only bad thing about Oklahoma is the musical.

PERINO (singing): Oklahoma.

BECKEL: OK, enough. All right. "One More Thing" is up next.

GUILFOYLE: Thanks.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

PERINO: It's time for "One More Thing" -- Bob.

BECKEL: OK. You guys want a hard time believing this. Kentucky Fried Chicken has a new ad out for prom season. Take a look at this.

GUILFOYLE: So cool.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(MUSIC)

(BOY PUTS WRIST CORSAGE ON GIRL FEATURING A PIECE OF FRIED CHICKEN INSTEAD OF A FLOWER)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BECKEL: Well, it sort of reminds me as one of my former prom dates.

No, as Greg pointed out to me, if yours looks like that, they give you a coupon or something. But to advertise it like that, who in their right mind would do something like that?

GUILFOYLE: I think it's so awesome. Somebody...

PERINO: It's smart enough to get on "The Five."

GUILFOYLE: By the way, I would totally eat it. I wish it would be real.

BECKEL: You'll totally eat anything.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, I know. But the thing is, I would actually go to the prom if someone got me that.

PERINO: Hey, yo. "One More Thing." Only have three minutes. Greg is next.

BECKEL: That's right.

GUTFELD: I got back from my bus tour. It was 31 cities in ten days.
I want to thank everybody. I'm in my third week now on the New York Times bestseller list. I found out I have a new audience, prisoners. Prisoners are reading the book, because they've learned from their mistakes from this book that it's being cool is what got them in prison. Go to Amazon and buy the darn book.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my God.

GUTFELD: Go to GGutfeld.com if you want it signed or a T-shirt or something fun.

PERINO: You could give it as a gift to every prisoner.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

PERINO: I love it.

OK. Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: OK, so I have a cute one. But anyway, so you know that Lorde, the famous singer and her song "Royals" was actually based on a third baseman, George Brett from the Royals. And she saw him in a picture with the word Royals across and shaking hands and giving autographs. She was thinking "Royals," what a cool word. Then she asked to meet them and
they got this picture together.

BOLLING: No way.  There's no way she wrote the song about George
Brett.

GUILFOYLE: No, no, no, she didn't write the song about him. She saw the word across his chest, and she was inspired and loved the word.

PERINO: I'm skeptical. Eric's next.

BOLLING: All right. Let's get this in. Very important, FOX is launching a brand-new noon show. It's four girls, one guy and it's called right there, "Outnumbered." And guess who the stars are going to be?

Kimberly Guilfoyle, our own Kimberly is going to be one of the -- one of the out numbers. Harris Faulkner, Andrea Tantaros, Sandra Smith, Jedediah Bila, Katie Pavlich and Kirsten Powers. I hope I got everyone there.

BECKEL: They're still on "The Five."

PERINO: They're not leaving "The Five."

BOLLING: They're not leaving "The Five," so don't worry.

PERINO: That show is going to be a hit. I want to say happy birthday to my dad, Leo Perino. And Greg found this cupcake for you upstairs on "FOX & Friends."

GUTFELD: It's actual size.

PERINO: Yes.

BECKEL: That is an actual size cupcake.

PERINO: My dad said all of the Peeps that are out there in the green room, they're still available, but Bob said he doesn't eat marshmallows.

GUILFOYLE: I want to take some of those.

PERINO: Don't forget to set your DVRs. Never miss an episode of "The Five." We'll see you back here tomorrow.

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