GOP seeks criminal probe of ex-IRS official Lois Lerner

This is a rush transcript from "The Five," April 9, 2014. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.

DANA PERINO, CO-HOST: Hello, everyone. I'm Dana Perino, along with Kimberly Guilfoyle, Bob Beckel, Eric Bolling and Greg Gutfeld.

It's 5 o'clock in New York City and this is "The Five."


PERINO: Earlier today, the House Ways and Means Committee took the unprecedented step to referring former IRS official Lois Lerner to the Justice Department for criminal probation. Though Attorney General Eric Holder is likely to dismiss it, Lerner could face up to 11 years in prison if convicted on the allegations.

Here's chairman of the Ways and Means Committee, Dave Camp, on why the committee took this step.


REP. DAVE CAMP (R-MI), HOUSE WAYS AND MEANS CMTE CHAIRMAN: The committee thinks things indicate that laws may have been broken. So, because of that, we're referring this matter to the Department of Justice and to Eric Holder, in a public way, so that the American people can now what the committee has been to.

If we don't stand up for people's constitutional rights on behalf of the American people, who else will?


PERINO: But did she act alone? Jay Sekulow, who represents 41 conservative groups targeted by the IRS isn't so sure about that.


JAY SEKULOW, ATTORNEY: I am not convinced that she is the sole leader involved in this. I don't think she came up with this scheme all by herself. I think there were others involved, including lawyers from office I used to work at, chief counsel's office, that were involved in this. By the way, these letters show there's chief counsel's engagement. So, I'd get an immunity if there's a proper made and get her under oath and get the testimony and see where it leads.


PERINO: Three of the things that the committee sees that it saw was unfairly targeting of conservative groups, misleading investigators and illegally releasing private taxpayer information. Those are the reasons that they're asking for this.

George Will had thoughts on it. Let's listen to him and we'll take it around the table.


GEORGE WILL, FOX NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: They're referring it to the headquarters of the current cover-up which is Holder's Justice Department.
We've had three major scandals in the last 40 years, Watergate, Iran Contra, and this one. The first two were investigated perhaps they were under Republican presidents, vigorously by the press and also by select committees of Congress. That's not happening with this one.


PERINO: All right. Greg, let's start with you, there's a committee action and all the things that are happening there. But writ large, 30,000 foot level -- kind of like Benghazi, everybody knows what's heap, it's just an inconvenient truth for them to actually come forward and let her testify.

GREG GUTFELD, CO-HOST: My favorite part of this whole thing was Steny Hoyer who called this hearing into the IRS a witch-hunt.

So, let me get this straight. Questioning an actual substantiated act of witch-hunting is called a witch-hunt. That logic, when a cop catches a mugger, that would be assault. When a fireman breaks down a door, that would be vandalism.

But the fact that politician so casually dismiss corruption shows you how the rigged the game is. The game is rigged, because the referee -- the media is your guy. It's the same team. You don't have to show up for practice.

President Obama is the eternal teacher's pet. Except it's the media who keeps giving him the apples.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, CO-HOST: Did you stay up all night working on it because that's actually pretty good.

GUTFELD: Oh, thank you. No, I had about four cups of coffee.

PERINO: I like it when you impress Kimberly.

GUTFELD: Yes, working on a hangover.

PERINO: Let me ask you, legally, for Lois Lerner, the attorney or even Lois Lerner herself, she might not be exactly be worried about this, but it will cause a few sleepless nights, right?

GUILFOYLE: Yes, because I think there's been private assurances made to her she's not going to go down for this. It is well within the rights for them to be able to say, look, this is the violations and ask for this criminal contempt to proceed forward. They have strong, solid grounds to do so.

Do I think it's going to come to anything, come to fruition? No, I don't, because unless the Republicans are willing to make this a campaign issue, all of these number of scandals, whether it's Benghazi, Fast and Furious, this IRS scandal, this criminal contempt proceeding.

It's going to go nowhere with the mainstream media like Greg said. That's the problem. There won't be the coverage and then there won't be the fire put to them to do something about it, and most certainly, Eric Holder is not going to proceed forward.

PERINO: Eric, let me ask you about -- so, six months ago or maybe even a year ago, within the first six months of the scandal, President Obama initially said he was outraged. He wanted to find out what had happened, but then I don't know what happened this convinced him that there's not a smidgen of corruption.

If they want to put this to bed, could they at least let us know what convinced President Obama that there's not a problem?

ERIC BOLLING, CO-HOST: So, here's in lies the problem. We talk about these a little bit yesterday. These committees, these congressional committees, both sides on the house, they do the same thing, they bring people to the stand to testify, and they likely like or take the fifth, then it goes nowhere. If you find out they are lying, then you can refer it to the Department of Justice.

What's in it for the Department of Justice? The Department of Justice headed by Eric Holder, who oversees the IRS, DOJ over the IRS, says -- you know what, there's really not much in it for me to find out how high this goes up, it goes up to Eric Holder himself and maybe too close o the president. There's nothing in it for them to continue.

Can I just add one more thing?


BOLLING: Unless these congressional committees start referring to independent outside counsel, further looking into what's going on, then they can offer her immunity and there's someone needs to offer her immunity so she can testify as to who exactly told her to do exactly what she did.
She didn't come up with this scheme on her own.

PERINO: Let's look at an email. It says this is the most informative article I've read about OSA, Obama for America, planning to keep Obama's foot soldiers enlisted. And Lerner said to Sharon Light, maybe I can get the D.C. office jobs and is that retirement talk? Some people might say, obviously she was joking.

But why can't we get the context from her directly? I mean, why is it out of the realm of possibility to suggest that she wasn't a foot soldier in Obama's army?

BOB BECKEL, CO-HOST: Well, George Will gratuitously said that the press did not investigate Iran Contra, or the committees of Congress didn't investigate that much. The fact there's been more investigation of the IRS scandal, if you want to call it that, than anything that happened with Iran Contra.

What did they come up? They came up with Lois Lerner. They're sending her forward, see if she can get a criminal prosecution against there. You know why? They had absolutely nothing after two years of investigating this.

PERINO: That's not true.

BECKEL: They are dry well and you think she's -- if she's going to go to prison, she's not going to tell somebody -- I think she did it on her own.

PERINO: How do you know? When you say that --


PERINO: How do you know?

BECKEL: How close does it get to the attorney general and president?
That's fear-mongering.

BOLLING: What do you think is more likely, Bob, that Lois Lerner came up with this on her own. What's in it for her to do it? Absolutely zero in it for her to do it. It was more likely that's policies behind it. Let's single out the Tea Party, the right, because they are not promoting what we believe in. That light likely sounds more political.

BECKEL: You just sat at this table and said it. We want to see how close this gets to the attorney general and the president of the United States.
That is smut-mongering?


BECKLE: Smut-mongering.

GUILFOYLE: Can't understand it when you --

PERINO: OK. Let me ask Greg something.

GUTFELD: You're smut-mongering.

PERINO: Earlier today --

GUTFELD: Heavy metal band.

BOLLING: They do that in college.

GUTFELD: Nobody for Krauthammer, smut-mongering.

GUILFOYLE: Mongering?

GUTFELD: Smongering. I'm sorry.

PERINO: I was going to start laughing to. I was trying to keep it under the control.

OK. Earlier today, the inspector general of the IRS released a report that says there was Hatch Act violations by people that worked at the IRS, at Dallas office, that were wearing Obama buttons and other things and leaning on people. So, the IRS is the most potent form of government oppression after the military, I guess, if you had it under a dictatorship.

So, why -- shouldn't Americans want to find out more about what happened?

GUTFELD: It is -- I mean, basically, this is operating in a culture of Obama love and how do you know that the left are truly in control? It's when lawmakers are laughing off a weapon of political coercion, when they don't think it's a big deal. When the government and the media are the same, retribution becomes a gleeful blood sport.

That's why -- I ask each reporter go into a room by themselves, look in mirror in play the Gutfeld exercise. Imagine it's President Romney and it's Attorney General Sarah Palin and IRS was targeting Planned Parenthood, how hard would you work this story? My prediction is, very hard.

GUILFOYLE: They wouldn't sleep at night.

GUTFELD: They'd be running around half naked.

BECKEL: Why are you suggesting they aren't working the story?

GUILFOYLE: We're the only ones that are doing it, Bob. What are you talking about? What's the empirical evidence?

BECKEL: One of the reasons --

GUTFELD: They don't think it's a big deal.

BECKEL: There's nothing there.

PERINO: How do you know that?

BOLLING: So, why? Why did Lois Lerner come up with this idea to go after 501c3s only on the right and not on the left?

PERINO: I have a theory.

BECKEL: Obama supporter, a liberal, maybe that -- if I were sitting in that seat and I had a shot at the Tea Party, I'd take it, too.

GUTFELD: There you go.

GUILFOYLE: Is he an Obama supporter?

PERINO: That's against the law. The IRS is not allowed to look at anyone's political affiliation for targeting. That is actually against the law and I would like to think that I would feel as -- I don't want to --

GUTFELD: Bob, you don't think it's a big deal.

PERINO: No, but he did, that's what I don't understand, Bob. When this first happened, you said for weeks that this was the biggest problem -- bigger than Benghazi. So what is it that convinced you that they have nothing? How do you know?

BECKEL: What convinced me was after Issa who I took on a little hard yesterday, I understand that, they investigated for a year and a half, they have said, investigated out all across the country, and they have come up with nothing. That's why I don't think this is a big --

PERINO: Well, you know what, I don't believe you.

BECKEL: What do you mean you don't believe me?

PERINO: Why should I believe you? You don't actually have any evidence either.

BECKEL: No, no, they have the evidence. They are presenting their stuff -

BOLLING: Let me ask you this, Bob. A couple of months ago, you said Chris Christie probably knew about the bridge scandal, right?

BECKEL: I said I thought he might, yes.

BOLLING: Why isn't this any different? Why wouldn't President Obama know or somebody else high up in the administration?

But when it's Republican, oh, he clearly knew and he's got people around to protect them --

BECKEL: Christie hasn't had near the number of investigations that the IRS has, and I thought that was going to be a story with a lot of legs. And there was a lot more people involved, and apparently, they have come with no evidence.

GUILFOYLE: Well, when you have somebody not cooperating and not telling the truth about what happened.

GUTFELD: It was President Romney --

BECKEL: Where is the evidence?

GUTFELD: What you are talking about? They admitted it. They admitted it.

BECKEL: Admitted what?

GUTFELD: They admitted in the beginning. They planted a question. They admitted that they were targeting.

PERINO: Lois Lerner, remember, she did the clumsy leak because she got herself ask a question so that they can try to manage the news cycle. Now, she finds herself in contempt to Congress and facing possible criminal prosecution.

BECKEL: OK. Then, after all these investigations, why don't they name other names?

PERINO: Because they have been stonewalled completely. You know what I showed you yesterday was the IRS testimony from two unnamed people that basically said there were no liberal groups targeted. They have information, Bob. I think that you should be -- the Democrats should be careful to say there is nothing there because clearly there is not.

BECKEL: I want to see what Issa's got --

GUIFOYLE: There's any been on the admission. We know it's real. It's not speculation. It's not conjecture. There's evidence to back it up and substantiate it and that's why we're having the confession.

BECKEL: Lois Lerner did that. That's right.

PERINO: I'm getting yelled at.

Directly ahead, Brandeis University withdraws its planned honorary degree for an outspoken critic of the abused of women in the Muslim world. So, what made the university to cave? You're going to be surprise to hear the answer.

That's next on "The Five."


GUILFOYLE: Well, last week, we told you about "Honor Diaries", a documentary profiling nine Muslim women who are abused and victimized by men in an archaic Muslim society. Now, one woman, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, who has been brave enough to speak out against the oppression of women in Islamic culture, has been denied an honorary degree at this year's Brandeis University commencement.

Now, in a letter of complaint to Brandeis, the Council on American Islamic Relations wrote, while Ali is free to spew anti-Muslim hate including her call for violence against the entire Muslim world. She does not have a right to be honored for that hate by a prestigious university.

Megyn Kelly can have more on this tonight, very interesting topic, high emotions on both sides, Dana. This is an issue deeply impacting women that internationally we should be concerned about.

PERINO: I actually don't think that there's much emotion to be had by the people that CAIR. I think all of the emotion and outrage would be on the people that would have supported Ali from getting this honorary degree.

What I find amazing is she was a victim herself of female genital mutilation. She survived. She went to Holland. She made a huge success of herself.

She's come to America. She has continued to fight for women and the CAIR's position is that don't say anything bad about the Muslim world or we will shut you down. We'll make sure you don't get an honorary degree. They have been able to get the University of Michigan to not show "Honor Diaries" the film.

On what planet does that happen where you have liberal-leaning universities not allowing a film to be shown so that people with a brain can watch it and decide for themselves what they think?

I also am very disappointed for Bob because based on this president, I don't think you're ever going to get an honorary degree.

GUILFOYLE: Yes, they're going to be withholding that --

BECKEL: You know the thing that is absolutely staggering me, first of all, the Brandeis caved as far as they caved. Secondly, for CAIR to use the word hate, directed at somebody else, when you're religion and the leaders of your Islamic moment hate and kill and maim. This woman has done something which is important. She's tried to stand up for your archaic rules about women that have been lost -- they should have been five centuries. You ought to get up to speed.

The fact of the matter is Brandeis is a cowardly. CAIR is a bully, and I will bet you this -- I willing to bet you that Brandeis, and I know other universities have received Arab monies in support of their universities.


BOLLING: OK. So, CAIR, who interesting it is --

GUILFOYLE: One of your great favorite groups. You've gone back and forth with that.

BOLLING: -- 9/11 co-conspirators -- unindicted 9/11 co-conspirators, et cetera, et cetera. The name is CAIR, but they don't clearly care. I know it's spelled differently.

Here's the thing, though, they were concerned and they got the University of Michigan to do a screening of that movie and they got them to stop based on what they aligned they are accusing Ms. Ali of doing. But also, because one of the producers of that film were Jewish, they were concerned that a Jew couldn't have an opinion on the Muslim faith. And so, they got them to stop doing it. Now, they are going after Ms. Ali.

Is there anyone less tolerant than Muslims in the world? Anyone, anywhere?

GUILFOYLE: CAIR, specifically?

BOLLING: And specifically clear who perpetrated the whole intolerance.

BECKEL: I think the two (INAUDIBLE), problem with intolerance in these thugs.

GUILFOYLE: OK, Greg, go ahead. And I'll follow up with the quote.

GUTFELD: So, wait, they go after honorary degrees but not honor killings.
That seems a bit weird about their priorities.

This woman, as you said, was mutilated, her friends have killed. The director of her film was stabled in the street. They left a note on his chest to say you are next. So, she's been a target of a fatwa.

If anybody is going to be critical of Islam, it is this woman. If she doesn't have a say in this, where are the feminists? Do they expect her to lie down and take it? This is what killed me. How would Brandeis have reacted of it was a former Christian, going off against bigoted Baptist?
They would have made her a feminist icon.

This woman has been brutalized since the moment she could walk. If she can't criticize Islam, I don't know who can.

Brandeis folded faster than a chair under Michael Moore out of fear.

BECKEL: You have to understand -- in this country, for some reason, we cannot criticize Islam. "The Huffington Post" has had a field day with me in my feelings about Muslims. Let them go ahead. I don't want many people read that rag. But the fact of the matter is, that if you are anti-Islam, you are not anti-Muslim.

Let's get this straight here -- it's radical Islamists we're talking about here and CAIR is a front for radical Islamists.

BOLLING: I'm glad you clear that part of it. I agree with you on Brandeis folding out of fear. What are they afraid? Are they afraid of being politically incorrect or perceived as Islamophobic?

GUTFELD: Yes, that's all it is.

PERINO: They had no problem giving an honorary degree to somebody who thought the state of Israel should not exist which is completely strange for a Brandeis --

GUILFOYLE: We talk about a war on women, right? Here it is right here and the liberal universities are tolerating and it's really shameful because they are doing the students a disservice by behaving in such a cowardly fashion. I mean, it's awful. People should be outraged about this and you have the CAIR president who you have gone back and forth with, Ibrahim Hopper saying she's one of the worst of the worst of the Islam haters in America, not only in America but world wide.

This is a woman who has fearless in the face of adversity. Every time she opens her mouth, or writes a book, steps out to speak at a university, or any other place that will have her, her life is on the line.

GUTFELD: Exactly. You know what? Let's say for the sake of the argument she is hypercritical, she sometimes maybe goes over board in her dislike for the -- for radical Islam. Maybe she's earned it. When you are mutilated and you are treated as a target of death, I think you can be a little critical.

BOLLING: And why not CAIR jumping on her side?


BOLLING: I mean, here you go, Hopper, you know, you've go the big mouth, you take your shots at us when we say something that you feel is Islamophobic. Here's a good opportunity for you to side with someone who Greg pointed out should be the one that you are defending. Not trashing.

BECKEL: For anybody who says we should be tolerant of Islam. Let me make my position clear, I've got no tolerance for you. None. I can do anything you want to do. And maybe you have a fatwa against me if you want to, and I'll repeat what I said before -- fatwa this.

BOLLING: Is that a fatwa?

GUTFELD: It's anti-fatwa.

GUILFOYLE: It's for the tease.

All right. Well, you're getting both sides of this story on "THE KELLY FILE" tonight with Megyn's exclusive interfere with Ayaan Hirsi Ali. And a spokesperson from CAIR: That's at 9:00 Eastern tonight. You don't want to miss it.

And directly ahead, what do baseball hall of famer, Hank Aaron, wild Yankee fans, and Jet newcomer Michael Vick have in common. Well, they're on Eric's fastest seven hitting the field, next on "The Five."


BOLLING: Welcome back, everybody.

We're taking the fastest seven to the ball field. Three sporty stories, seven speedy minutes, one spunky host.

First up, 40 years ago, Hammerin' Hank Aaron broke Babe Ruth's home-run record but it was what he said yesterday that raised eyebrows, on the anniversary of that 715th dinger, Hank said this about President Obama, Republican Party and race.

Quote, "Sure, this president has a black president, but when you look at black president, President Obama is left with his foot stuck in the mud from all the Republicans with the way he's treated. The bigger difference is that back then they had hoods, now, they have neckties and starch shirts."

Mr. Beckel, I'm going to start with you. Wow, Hammerin' Hank making --

BECKEL: First of all, there's no excuse for the last sentence at all. I will say this is the guy who went through the worst racism around the league. He was -- things were thrown at him. He was given -- the n-word was thrown at him all the time.

He's a better man who had great courage to stand up to that, he and Willie Mays. And I can understand his resentment about it, and he's also exactly right, Republicans have done zero to help Barack Obama move this country forward.

BOLLING: Do you think (INAUDIBLE) when an athlete delved so far into politics?

GUTFELD: Not really. I mean, I kind of agree with Bob, in a way similar to our B-block story -- Hirsi Ali was a victim discrimination. Hers was probably more brutal obviously. She was mutilated. So, he sees everything through a prism of discrimination and anger.

But he's got to remember that the KKK, they were Democrats. They weren't Republicans. An interesting though, whenever you're at a baseball game and a pitcher is up three strike outs and it's up there, you see the three K's, it always looks to weird to me.

BOLLING: Those are swinging strikes.

GUTFELD: But it's very odd.

PERINO: Obviously, Greg. I mean, you didn't know that?

GUTFELD: No, I didn't.

BOLLING: Dana, your thoughts on athletes in politics?

PERINO: I'm a little tired of being lectured about being tolerant and watching rhetoric on the Republican side when open the Democrat side it happens just as much and, you know, I think that the Republican Party didn't deserve that swipe.

BOLLING: We're going to leave it here.

GUILFOYLE: I would like to adopt her statement as my own. Thank you very much.

BOLLING: OK. Moving right along, yesterday two rowdy fans ran on to the field into Yankees-Orioles game. Pictured right there, that prompted Baltimore center fielder to issue this warning for the next clown, to try his or her luck with a few seconds of fame.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think it's idiotic for people to run on the field and
-- and the -- I think the punishment needs to be a lot harsher. And they should let us have a shot to kick them with our metal spikes on. Because it's stupid. We don't go to any other events. And we don't go to other sporting events and do that to their jobs. But they come to ours and do that. I get it. You're drunk, and you -- you know, you want to be on "Sports Center." And anybody who does it, I wish the cops tased the living (EXPLETIVE DELETED) out of them.


BOLLING: OK, you were playing softball at Southern Cal, and the guys ran out on the field. You want to kick them.

GUILFOYLE: I was at UC Davis, Northern Cal. (inaudible) It's more recreational. It's stun gun.

BECKEL: What you do, is you tase all your boyfriends, that's what you do?

GUILFOYLE: Why do they come back, Bob?



GUILFOYLE: Yeah, because there's fast pitch. I've been hitting. I've been playing a long time. That's right. My highest on base percentage and most stolen bases on the league.

BOLLING: That was you? Oh boy, we could make a whole segment out of that.
Greg, what's your thoughts with the fans?

GUTFELD: Baseball can be slow. I think we can admit that, and each team I believe should be allowed two fans that are allowed to run on the field.
If the fan makes it across the field without being brutally beaten, your team gets an out a race. This is why I'm running for baseball commissioner. I think it would be a lot of fun.

BOLLING: I would like to be the outfielder if that were the case.


BECKEL: One thing that I was going to say was this has gone on much too long. There ought to be much more severe penalties than throwing them out.

GUTFELD (?): What do you do, though?

BECKEL: Throw them in jail.

PERONI: I think it's also financial. I think you have to hit them in the pocket book and make the fine so exorbitant that they won't do it.

BECKEL: Right, I agree.

GUILFOYLE: Can we do that along with the tasing, then I'm for it.

BOLLING: Scaling back the beer selling, and I'm very much against that.

GUTFELD: That's wrong. If they can't handle it, they shouldn't punish it.

BOLLING: Correct. Remember this?


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When police raided a farm he owned in rural Virginia in 2007, they uncovered an interstate dog-fighting operation called Bad News Kennels. They removed 66 dogs and exhumed the bodies of eight more. They also found dog-fighting paraphernalia and a pit where fights were held.


BOLLING: All right, as a dog lover, I can't stand Michael Vick. As a football fan, I think the guy can still win football games.

That said, the New York Jets are in desperate need of a winning season.
Mark Sanchez is out. Geno Smith was never really in. So the Jets recently signed Vick, and it didn't take long for petitions to begin circulating asking the Jets to reconsider the quarterback. Let's start with the anti- Vick. Bobby.

BECKEL: I think he's -- I don't think should have been allowed back into football as a result of what he did, and I think that the Jets are picking themselves up a guy way over the hill. If the Jets want to ever get back in the winning season, they ought to get themselves, recruit a good young quarterback, not some old dog killer.

BOLLING: All right, we -- we have the dog lovers on this side.

GUILFOYLE: Wait, you just said that he was pro-Vick?


GUILFOYLE: I was gonna say, that was a bit -- so this is what I say J-E-T- S. Jets, Jets, Jets, no pets. I know that he's paid his dues. This is not a guy that I admire whatsoever except for the fact that he did do the time. He has gone out to do community service to educate people. So if he's educated and reached even one person that was involved in animal abuse, I'm happy about that. But I am still shocked, and, you know, I find his crimes abhorrent, the kind of torture. And I spent a lot of time --

BOLLING (?): But give him a second chance.

GUILFOYLE (?): Well, the Jets need help.


PERINO: I believe that someone that pays their dues is deserving of some grace and redemption. And by all accounts, people that are working with him, coaches and people also in the animal rights community, think that he has really changed in his heart. And I think that if the Jets made this decision, they are going to have to stand by him, so those petitions are going to have to be ready for all of that and really defend him if that's the decision that they've made.

GUILFOYLE: And Dana's right because the head of the U.S. Humane Society is a big supporter for his education and outreach.

BOLLING: Gregory?

GUTFELD: What's wrong with dog fighting?

I'm kidding! It's awful. But I hate petitions anyways. For me, these are visible causes that attract media more than the -- it's more -- I sometimes think about the organizers more than the cause. And I think, you know, the guy has done his punishment. What else? He went to jail.

BOLLING: It's a tough crime in New York.


BOLLING: He is going to have a tough time.

PERINO (?): His new punishment is living in New York.

GUTFELD: Ooh, ladies and gentlemen.

BOLLING: Coming up -- speaking of dogs, coming up, the triumphant return of Jasper back on The Five for a special celebration, and you're invited.

But first, actress Kirsten Dunst sparks a feminist backlash after expressing her support for women who stay at home to take their care of their families. But is the outrage fair? More on that debate over traditional gender roles when we return.


GUTFELD: You can stop texting now, Kimberly.

GUILFOYLE: I'm texting Bob about later.

GUTFELD: So being a Hollywood actress is pretty cool until you say something uncool. Take Kirsten Dunst who upset some feminists, which is easy to do. Oxygen angers them. In "Harper's Bazaar U.K." she said, quote, "The feminine has been a little undervalued. We all have to get our own jobs and make our own money, but staying at home nurturing, being the mother, cooking, it's a valuable thing my mom created, and sometimes you need your knight in shining armor. I'm sorry. You need a man to be a man and a woman to be a woman."

That's disgusting! A top feminist blog chauvinistically dismissed Dunst as, quote, "an actress and blonde who looks good in clothes," adding, "Kirsten Dunst is not paid to write gender theory. So it shouldn't anyone that she's kind of dumb about it."

See, to them, it's dumb not to see relationships through the prism of anger, that love is really about power and ideology that forbids traditional old-fashioned gender roles. So why not marry yourself instead?
You never need to get out of sweatpants.

Gender theory isn't a theory so much as it is a therapy, replacing loneliness with rage. Their brainwashed conclusion, if you don't get gender theory, you are a dumb chick. But if you've ever met a gender theorist, you realize they only know gender theory, which is why when they graduate, all they can do is teach you the stuff or get you a tall latte.

GUILFOYLE: So much in that.

GUTFELD: Was there a lot in that, Kimberly?

GUILFOYLE: I'm so happy that I graduated from a college just a few years ago, that I don't have to take gender theory as a class. We had women's studies, not gender -- I mean, is this like a new thing for the economy to create a new job sector?

GUTFELD: I don't know. Does my mic even work?

GUILFOYLE: No one knows.

BOLLING: I think your mic does, but maybe not your earpiece.

GUILFOYLE: But I think it's mean. Why can't she have her personal opinion? So what?

GUTFELD: I don't know.

GUILFOYLE: You need all kinds.

GUTFELD: Dana, you are a woman.

PERINO: Really?

GUTFELD: Yes. I love how this feminist dismissed this actress as just a blonde actress. Could you be more sexist than that?

PERINO: Also, there's two things about this that really got to me. She's embracing femininity in "Harper's Bazaar," which is all about femininity.
Maybe that shouldn't be a surprise. Also, Kirsten Dunst, when she makes her comment, she says sometimes, "and sometimes you need your knight in shining armor. I'm sorry. You need a man to be a woman."

The thing that bothers me is that you don't -- as women, you don't need to put, "I'm sorry" in front of your opinions.


PERINO: OK? But she did that because she knew she was going to get blow back from gender theorists.

GUTFELD: Exactly.

PERINO: That irritates me. Do you get my point?

GUTFELD: I get your point. Eric, what do you make of this?

BOLLING: I make -- feminists are pro-choice, unless you are a female and you choose to be traditional, then you are politically incorrect, you are wrong and whatever other comments that they're making.

PERINO: Well, you can be a feminist and pro-life.

BOLLING: Right, but no, no but -- but yes, you can. But you can't be pro choice about being traditional. If you are, then you are not part of the feminist -- only if you're a traditionalist, then you are wrong and you're all the things that they're trying not to be.


BOLLING: Am I wrong?

GUTFELD: No, that makes perfect sense.

GUILFOYLE (?): Why don't you go to Bob on this?

GUTFELD: Yeah, Bob. She's an outspoken woman. Isn't that what feminists love, an outspoken woman?

BECKEL: Well, the thing that always amazes me is -- is the assumption that somehow staying home and raising kids and taking care of a house is not a job. It's a big job, and in fact, they put some quantitative numbers to it, and it turns out to be a pretty expensive -- if they were out working someplace else, somebody has got to do that.

What are you going to do, have latch key kids? I mean, if you make that decision and God made the decision that women were going to have babies, and men are -- you know, some of them are good with babies. A lot of them ain't. And I think the idea that attacking her because she thinks she wants to stay home or people ought to be allowed to stay home is absolutely ridiculous.

PERINO (?): You just made a really good point about the gender pay gap.
Thank you.

GUTFELD: Also about dudes and babies. I've dropped, like, six babies over the last 10 years.

GUILFOYLE: I wouldn't trust any children with you.

BOLLING: And dudes, go ahead and thank God that he chose women to have the babies.

GUTFELD: That's the toughest job in the world.

GUILFOYLE: By the way, that's for real.

GUTFELD: All right, I think I should tease.

BOLLING: Yes, they're saying tease.

GUTFELD: Yes, I can't hear anything.

Directly ahead, this "New Yorker" magazine image has Dr. Obama giving Republican law makers a dose of some bad medicine. How daring. What's next? Darrell Issa as Pinnochio? Bob sounds off on the cover, next on "The Five."


BECKEL: All the abuse I've taken over Obamacare. Now it's my turn to highlight one of the finest -- I mean finest -- illustrations on the issue.
The latest New York magazine -- New Yorker magazine cover shows President Obama wearing a doctor's coat, spoon feeding the GOP, specifically Senator Mitch McConnell, Dr. No.

My take: Republicans need to grow up and take their medicine on this and learn that there are people who need health care in this country, and they're not just their constituents.

Anybody want to talk about it?

PERINO: Oh, my gosh. First of all, nobody says that you cannot -- Medicaid and Medicare exist for everybody, regardless of where you live in America. There is a right to health care, and it is funded by the taxpayers.

BECKEL: Not -- you can't get Medicaid at a certain level?

BOLLING: Remember that company that you mentioned last week, I think -- what is it called, the Rand Corporation?

PERINO: Oh, yes. That's a good...

BOLLING: Look at what they came out with today, Bob. They found -- they find that there are only 1.4 million previously uninsured individuals who signed up for Obama.

BLITZER: What's wrong with that?

BOLLING: what's wrong with that? Seven hundred and fifty million dollars they spent to do it so far and to insure 1.4 million people.

BECKEL: Well, it's not over yet.

PERINO: You've still got your 40 million uninsured.

BECKEL: Listen, the headline that we didn't talk about yesterday, because Porter, our executive director, refused to do it was -- it was a story that the number of uninsureds has plummeted in the United States in health care.

BOLLING: According to Pelosi.

BECKEL: No, it wasn't Pelosi.

GUTFELD: Can I just comment a bit about the magazine cover?

PERINO: On the cover? Yes.

GUTFELD: The illustrator's name is Barry Blitt. What a pedestrian artist.
You know, kept alive by matching the presumptions of his editors.

And then to gloat over another media entity bending over as a propaganda tool for history's losers. Which is raises the question: if government can do health care better, Bob, why can't they do magazines, too? New Yorker is awful. Their cartoons are incomprehensible. In a weird way, the New Yorker is inaccessible to other Americans. Why don't we make the New Yorker more accessible? Fire the editor, David Remnick. Put Barack Obama in charge.

BECKEL: It's not the government. It's insurance companies.

GUTFELD: Make it free. Make the New Yorker free to people who can't afford it.

PERINO: Well, you know what? It's almost going to be nonexistent. They just cut their...

BECKEL: Let me put it this way. Get used to it. Get used to it. It's here to stay.

GUTFELD: Say it's the law of the land, Bob.

BECKEL: It is the law of the land.

GUTFELD: What law of the lands do you remember that were wrong? Do you remember them? Jim Crow?

BECKEL: I can't remember one this big that were ever repealed.

GUTFELD: Jim Crow? Wasn't that a law that you often talk about?

GUILFOYLE: So I want to know the back story here. Do you have some kind of personal situation with the editor of the New Yorker?

GUTFELD: No, I'm just saying that they're OK with government getting involved in other businesses. Well, let's get involved in their business.

GUILFOYLE: OK. I think you have a situation with them now, but here's the deal, Bob. You can gloat all you want in your little happy camper days.
Because they are soon coming to an end, because as soon as that employer mandate kicks in.

BECKEL: I've been hearing that for months.

GUILFOYLE: But it's just a fact. As soon as the employer mandate kicks in, you wait and see about the poll numbers for Obamacare and what's going to be happen. It's going to be the reckoning with 2016 and 2014. Mark my words.

BECKEL: Reaching critical mass, more people getting involved.

GUTFELD: Critical...

BECKEL: I'm always amazed that people have insurance are the ones who always think...

BOLLING: If this was so good, if this was such a great idea and it was so revolutionary and it was going to change America for the better, why are Democrats in trouble for the Senate in 2014?

BECKEL: Well, I think you're overestimating how much they're in trouble over this issue.

BOLLING: I think you...

BECKEL: You're the one put the marker down and said, "Campaign only on this."

BOLLING: Bob, you just -- I love you brother, but I know a couple of days ago you said...

BECKEL: I'd like to see the Republicans campaign on their idea for health care.

BOLLING: You were in the camp saying the Democrats were in trouble in the Senate.

PERINO: The best thing for Republicans...

GUILFOYLE: That's why they delayed the mandate. Hello.

BECKEL: You can't have that many people up for re-election and not be in trouble.

PERINO: The best thing for Republicans in 2014 is more victory laps by liberals like you, because that's what will feed the turnout.

GUTFELD: On magazine covers.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, please read the tease now. I love it.

BECKEL: I never said it won't cost them votes, but it's not going to beat them outright is the only issue.

GUILFOYLE: Bob -- Bob.

BECKEL: Oh, yes. "One More Thing" -- I was hating this part of it. "One More Thing" is up next. America's favorite dog...

PERINO: No, articulate.

BECKEL: ... Jasper, will be here for his special surprise you can't miss.

PERINO: Come on, Bob.

BECKEL: So don't go anywhere. We'll be right back.

GUTFELD: Oh, boy.

PERINO: Yay, Jasper!


PERINO: Hey, it's time now for "One More Thing." It's been a year since America's dog has been on "The Five." But here he is back, Jasper -- Vizsla Perino, I guess is his name.

Just sit, honey.

He's two years old today, and Bob just could not wait to have him back on the show. Right, Bob?

BECKEL: Jasper, let me congratulate you on your birthday. Happy birthday.
And, gosh, this thing is heavy.

GUILFOYLE: Please don't drop it. Look at that.

BECKEL: This is for you, Jasper.

PERINO: Is it really a dog cake? Or a human cake?

BECKEL: Don't worry about it. Don't worry about the sleeping pills I put in there.

GUILFOYLE: Show the puppy dog.

BECKEL: Can I just say one thing? Jasper, you have one more year under your belt. Now you can hassle me and the rest of "The Five" for a year.
But I want you to remember this...

GUILFOYLE: Can you see how cute?

BECKEL: Will you shut up? When they cut through the fog -- when they cut through the fog, you're still only a dog.

PERINO: Oh, it rhymes. It rhymes.

BOLLING: Good boy, Jasper.

PERINO: Thank for letting me having him on. He's a great asset for "The Five."

GUILFOYLE: He really wants the cake.

PERINO: He does want that cake.

BOLLING: Move the cake. He really wants the cake.

GUTFELD: It's yellow cake.

BOLLING: Adorable.

GUTFELD: Or it will be yellow cake.

PERINO: Peter -- Peter, can you come get the cake? Go ahead. It's OK, even though you don't have your makeup on.

BOLLING: Really?

GUTFELD: He's slightly excited.

BOLLING: Who's a good boy?

PERINO: We've got to go next to...

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

BOLLING: He wants the cake so badly.


GUTFELD: Perhaps you should get the dog.

PERINO: OK. Greg is next. Greg is next. I'm holding him.

GUTFELD: All right. So anyway, I was on a tour. I got a lot of gifts.
And now I'm afraid to use them, because I think the dog's going to want them. This.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh.

GUTFELD: I'd like to thank the young lady who gave me my first unicorn -- unicorn pillow.

GUILFOYLE: I love it!

GUTFELD: Isn't it great? So what you do is open it up open like that, and it's like a little pillow. I use this on my flight so people stay away from me.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh. That's so cute. Can I have that?

GUTFELD: No. You can have my slow Loris, though.


PERINO: Uh-oh.

GUTFELD: Eric, because I know that you secretly like unicorns, this is a homemade unicorn. Made with love.

BOLLING: And it's not a rhino.

GUTFELD: Bob, you got the cigars. That was from Jeff K.

GUILFOYLE: Oh, my gosh, he's eating it!

PERINO: No, no, no.

GUTFELD: And then also for you, Dana, I got -- I was given the "Ask the Unicorn" button. Listen.

PERINO: Listen.

(SOUND: Neighing)

PERINO: It really echoed in my ear.

RECORDED VOICE: ... only when you have to.

GUTFELD: Isn't that wonderful?

PERINO: The dog is not going to make it. I love that.

GUTFELD: People keep giving me stuff. The cigars that Bob got from Jeff are amazing. And look, I got a little corgi. People keep giving me stuff.

GUILFOYLE: Why the corgi? Is that a bobblehead?

GUTFELD: This is -- this is because Casper disappeared, so I got a Casper.

BECKEL: Greg, you've got great, great, great taste.

GUILFOYLE: I like the boxing gloves.

PERINO: You got nice gifts.

GUTFELD: The boxing gloves were given to me to fight with Bob, but they're for little kids.

PERINO: They don't fit you.

And Kimberly, you're next.

GUILFOYLE: I'm trying to hoard all the stuff.

GUTFELD: Here's a Keith Urban CD.

GUILFOYLE: I have a very cute slow Loris now. I have a really cute "One More Thing." It's Prince George in the cutest ever most-watched play date.
Take a look at this. This is his first little interaction.

BECKEL: Still has those shorts on on a cold day.

GUILFOYLE: He's so cute. Bob, he's indoors. It's OK if he's wearing shorts. You're blocking -- what are you doing?

GUTFELD: He's excited.

GUILFOYLE: OK. Anyway, this is very sweet, and this is day three of their little outing. And this is their Pacific tour that they've been doing that I've been talking about. And I just think he's fantastic.

PERINO: OK. That was really boring -- Bob.

BECKEL: Well, last night was a great treat for me. I got to meet the star of -- one of the stars of my favorite show, which is "Justified." That was Nick Searcy, who was kind enough. He's a friend of my brother's. He was doing "Red Eye" last night. And I had a chance to see and talk to him.
He's a wonderful guy. Despite the fact that he's a right winger, he's a good, good guy and great actor.

And I love -- if you haven't seen "Justified," get it. It's one of the great shows of all time.

PERINO: You know what was one of my favorite things of last night? Is watching you and Nick have such a great conversation. I loved -- I could have listened to the two of you all night. It was great.

BECKEL: It was fun.

PERINO: All right, Eric, you're last.

BOLLING: This is going to be very to do very quickly. An emotional story.
Michigan State star forward Adrian Payne, a great, great human being, struck up a relationship with Lacey Holsworth, a young lady, 8-year-old, who had neuroblastoma. They were great. These are two, so inspiring.
This =-- there should be more people like it.

Unfortunately, Lacey lost her life last night, but what a man. This guy made her feel great right to the last minute. If there are more people like Adrian Payne. Good job. And it's very uplifting to read that story.

PERINO: She really was a princess, and now an angel.

BOLLING: Pray for her and her family.

PERINO: Don't forget to set your DVRs so you never miss an episode of "The Five." Jasper, thank you for being here. We're going to see you here tomorrow.

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